Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Patch 7 Ascended Astarion's kisses goes against his story as written

So what if he's evil? Alignment mandates being an ab**er? Why doesn't Minthara do that then? There's nothing wrong with her romance. Romances with evil companions have been in many games:

BG1: Dorn Il-Khan (Neutral Evil) - everything is fine with the romance. BG2: Viconia DeVir (Neutral Evil) - beautifully written romance. Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous: Daeran (Neutral Evil) - great romance, was my favorite until I met Astarion. And of course, Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader: Marazhai - I haven't played it myself, but everyone praises it, including many players who were disappointed with Larian and quit the game after patch 6. If you look at the Owlcat forum, you won't find anyone who was disappointed with this novel. I only mentioned the games that I could immediately recall, and where the alignment is either explicitly stated in the companion description or obvious, as in the case of Marazhai. You can probably find more, but you won't find it anywhere, not in any RPGs

*** WARNING: sensitive content (may contain a discussion of violence, abuse, SA related to a BG3 scene) this content might not be suitable for all audiences. Trigger warning***


Please cite the source of this quote (article, interview, etc.).


Yes, that's an excellent point. Indeed, Larian themselves call it an improvement, and it is.


Yes, thanks for the clarification. I remember now in which specific article that quote was:

Baldur's Gate 3 Developers Explain ...s, and Making the Best RPG of 2023"

Yes, Adam Smith obviously sees the ending of Astarion that way, and it has nothing to do with his romance. Since Adam Smith is not the author of Astarion, only Stephen Rooney's opinion on it can be “canon” to me, but that's my personal opinion. In my post, I simply stated my perception about the fact that, yes, I'm afraid too, so Astarion and I are both afraid of what will happen if he doesn't Ascend, why not interpret it that way. I just don't see what's wrong with it if fear is not an irrational phobia, but part of a reasonable mechanism for survival and adaptation in an aggressive environment. In RL we don't live in a pink pony world either, after all, and “fear” has its degrees too, the form of “fear” that causes one to adequately perceive reality, to take steps to ensure one's own safety, is a useful survival mechanism. It's worse when it isn't. In my opinion, AA is behaving in this way, he is reasonably concerned for his own safety, increasing his chances of survival. Of course, his fear is deeper and it is that fear, that alteration of consciousness that is a consequence of severe PTSD. Only time and, indeed, the development of one's own strength and power will help. But isn't UA afraid? He must be even more afraid deep down, because he is more vulnerable, weaker, and we don't forget that this is the same Astarion, with the same PTSD. The authors don't talk about it, but it follows objectively from all the facts we know about him. He's afraid to even take off his mask, to show his true character, he's afraid Tav will leave him. He has even more fears. I rather strongly disagree that having fear and having a “ fearful ending” are the same thing. “A ‘ fearful ending’ is a description that fits someone who dies a fearful death. But the ending of the game is, of course, only the ending of this particular stage of life for Astarion, and so is only the beginning of his new life.


Both characters gave their autonomy to each other and became one - yes, I really like this interpretation. I myself also see this novel the same way, not only in the “evil” ending, but in the “good” ending too. Tav is dependent on Astarion nominally and emotionally (a character in love is dependent on the other anyway, since the beloved is the most valuable person in their life). Astarion is also highly dependent emotionally, he needs Tav very much, which is why he makes Tav his bride (or spawn, who likes it) so that Tav will never leave him. But he also gives up his autonomy - he's always there for Tav, Tav is central to his life, he doesn't feel the need to do anything autonomously without Tav's input. He could, after all, not go to that party he didn't want to go to, but stay to rest in the castle, Tav won't “run away”, the bond between them is strong enough, after all, he lets Tav go with Karlach if Tav wants it. But he still goes together with Tav to the party, which means he just doesn't want to stay home alone. Ideally, this novel should have been like that, both characters having given their autonomy to the other, if Astarion just knew that Tav doesn't get high on “degradation” and loves him unconditionally and will always be there for him. But I liked the one single playable option for the evil ending - option 1, when Tav, becoming Absolute, leads the army. All other options are extremely disappointing - there again “evil-isolation”, and Tav kills their beloved (or LI kneels with the rest, as in the option with a stupid statue of “self-love”). But the first option leaves room for a wonderful headcanon - use the power of the Absolute not according to Dead Three's plan, but for your own purposes - find a god sphere on Faerûn/kill some deity for the sake of their sphere, make Astarion a deity, then he will definitely have a “good ending” and you won't have to worry about his safety, then destroy the unnecessary Brain and live peacefully in his domain.


Yes, I overplayed the scene, at “ gentle” he does bite twice, first on the hand, then on the neck. And actually, the whole point of that choice is for Astarion to kiss Tav's hand gently. I meant that the “tenderly” option could in no way imply frightened faces, that would be silly. If Astarion saw such a face on his beloved, of course he would stop and find out what was wrong.


I apologize, bug in the sense of “mistake”. I was in a hurry because I had to leave and quickly used the translator to save time, and it already translated “mistake” as “bug”. About ratings - I've discussed this issue in detail in other threads, so I'd better make a link so I don't have to write the same thing.

Warnings in the game - necessary or not?

Larian, please ensure you don’t take away player agency with AA in patch 7




DU doesn't force love-interest to kiss them through tadpole, but kisses them and kills them in the process, the video of the scene does not show any “forcing” in any way. This video is a murder scene. DU kills their lover in the moment of kissing, when LI trusts them completely.

I don't like this ending at all, but here one can except to complain to Larian themselves about the plot of this ending, which made it impossible to play as a DU without rejecting Bhaal for those who love their romantic companion. But, if we review the evil endings for consistency with the M rating (review in terms of “bloody”, since a certain level of conventional violence also requires an AO rating, as in bloody horror games), they fit perfectly within the M rating. Yes, they are gory, but:

1. There are no sustained intense scenes of violence. We see a sequence of brief violent scenes, cumulatively creating a sense of drama, of carnage, but each of these scenes is brief, the camera moves away quickly (by the way, at one point they used Astarion's animation when he stabs Gandrel in the eye with a dagger, right to the point, lol). The blood doesn't look very realistic, like paint (maybe it's the fact that it's a video). There is no child violence shown in the footage. The little girl dies in the story, but we don't see how. At 8.08 (Urge Ending) we see the girl (the central NPS of these scenes) with a dagger sticking out of her chest, the little girl is below, shown up to her neck, no dagger sticking out of her is shown. The little girl does not pick up the spear in choice 1, she is not shown in the shot (even a shot like “war child” was decided to be avoided). The little girl is not shown in the shot when everyone becomes illithid. By the way, it is not even shown how an adult girl puts a tadpole in her eye.

2. There is no naturalism in the depiction of cruelty. A townsman puts another townsman's face to the burning coals of the forge, where are the burns? The victim looks as if he was just smeared with soot, although the game's graphics are perfectly capable of showing the burns (the face of the half-illithid's DU looks very realistic, showing the burns would be no more difficult). The way his head is smashed with a hammer afterward isn't shown either. When the little girl stabs her protector with a dagger, that also looks unrealistic, she just pokes the dagger + red color of blood, and that's it, just like a mannequin. No anatomical details of the killing process, everything is softened. These endings are dramatic, but if you compare these scenes to scenes from AO rated horror games, they would be pretty “vanilla”.

Swen doesn't seem to want BG3 to be on the same shelf as AO rated games. Larian could have easily made those scenes with the same plot more violent and naturalistic, but they didn't. They could have shown a child being killed for once so that the evil players could see the “aftermath”, but no, it seems Larian doesn't want an AO rating for themselves. I'm certainly not an expert in this matter, but okay, if they suddenly listen to you and bring those scenes back, the ESRB will consider it, it's their job. And then we'll see.


So? Where is the video of traumatizing content here? Are there any rules about this, or at least the name of a descriptor that would describe such content as “a voice/text line talking about someone not letting someone break up”?


D/s scenes refer to normal sex scenes and can be in a game rated M. Well ok, Larian should write somewhere that there are D/s scenes in Astarion's romance, for those who don't like it. But that's at their discretion, no rules obligate them to do that.


The option doesn't clarify what you are “forcing”? Well yes, the text for selecting this line says nothing about it. If in your perception it does, that's your right, in fact it doesn't exist in the game.