Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Astarion and Shadowheart Poly interactions

I'm glad you recognize this.

Long as you recognize it as well

I agree it would have been fun imo and they wouldn't have needed to go overboard with it, either.^^

That made me think of this line that he says the morning after the turning night:
"Just... don't stray TOO far – but you would never dream of doing that, would you?"

When he says the first part, he sounds kind of worried and uncertain, and I feel like that's because he knows Tav *could* stray from him if they wanted to, and he really doesn't want that to happen. In the second part of that dialogue (where he makes a slight pause and then says "but you would never dream of doing that-") it seems like he catches himself and then puts on the self-confident air again, as if he's very sure that Tav's not going anywhere.

But to me, this was one example of the writing showing that he has possessive tendencies and doesn't want you to leave his side, at least not too far or for too long. The 'sequestering you' dialogue also comes to mind.

I personally lean more towards the vampire bride theory and I think there are enough clues there to make it ambiguous (if you'd like to think Tav is a regular spawn or if AA actually performed the vampire bride ritual on them, that is up to the player to decide in the end).

I just wanted to point out, in regards something said here a bit earlier- that he says he likes you and missed you because power is lonely in the epilogue regardless of whether or not you were ever together. It's still an interesting bit of insight, though.

I really wish Larian would fix this but I know it's too late. It's the one thing in this game I think is out and out terrible and doesn't fit with prior dialogue

This is a very contentious issue all around. Nonetheless, instead of shying away from hard, or uncomfortable, conversation, I think we need to engage in them - amicably. It's not a question of poly, but what form that poly takes. As someone who is poly, it's important to remember that there's a difference between polyamory and polygamy. Polyamory IS linked to trauma; which is why Halsin, Shadowheart, and Astarion being poly makes perfect sense.

Personal take on changes: Leave everyone the way they are until they make the definitive choice. I see Spawn Astarion becoming almost hyper-possessive, and not wanting anything to do with anyone else but Tav. Shadowheart down the Selunite path, probably not, but shifting more into being in a closed relationship than an open one. But that's not really something that's possible, so that would require a lot more writing, and I just don't see it happening.

In short, being poly isn't about being good or evil, right or wrong, righteous or blasphemous, etc, etc. It's about the individual, and all-in-all, I think Larian did a pretty damned good job with it; even if I am a little butt-hurt that my love, Shadowheart, has certain proclivities...

No, I don't think we do need to have conversations that include such contentious and potentially offensive general claims as that polyamory is linked to trauma here, on what is meant to be a fun place to chat about a game where everyone feels safe and welcome. Please let's steer clear of making such sweeping statements with implications for very personal aspects of people's real lives.

If people really feel the need to argue that the specific attitudes to sex or romance of game characters is linked to their personal story, that's a different matter, but as I said on the first page of this thread I do expect everyone to be very, very careful to avoid negative implications about others' real life sexual preferences.

That wasn't at all the primary focus of my response. My point (and I thought it was quite clear) was that I think Larian did a very good job of portraying such romances in game. The link between characters in a game, movie, or novel SHOULD be relatable, hence others can actually feel a connection with said person. Again, this is why characters that go down certain paths can have an alternate story arch. If not, then what would be the point of writing anything at all? I was in no way wanting to cause aggravation, humiliation, or frustration. Again, that's why I mentioned talking about such things in a more understanding manner.

Regardless, The primary point was that I think everything works well as-is, and nothing really needs to be changed. Though a few odds and ends here and their would, potentially, make sense.

Really? I think they did a terrible job of it. Shadowheart and Astarion flat out do not want to share in Act 2. The poly thing was forced in Act 3. This thread I saw a couple minutes ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/1fw89g9/ummm_ew/ makes it even more vile. That third image is from when you cheat on Shadowheart with Mizora. Larian is actually using child abuse as a justification for her being fine with cheating and open relationships (even though she wasn't fine with it two hours ago in act 2 and has plenty of sexual boundaries in act 1)

Good God, this is awful.

It's good that the reporting function exists. Exaggerated comparisons from real life are not desired here.

I fail to see what's exaggerated. "The way I was raised, the way I was trained... Well it was positively encouraged to get to know each other".

It's pretty gross and Larian does indeed use that as the reason she doesn't care if you're faithful or not

Strange assumptions and you use assumptions to accuse Larian.

I'm honestly not understanding what you're saying. Shadowheart says she was raised and trained to have sex with other people. RAISED to do it. And yeah they do use it as the reason she doesn't care if you cheat on her

Look at this video

Ahem ...


Let's try to stay constructive and civil, as this is not a comfortable topic to have a row about.

No, that's not what you meant (we knew the other from the beginning), you're writing about her childhood and what supposedly happened to her.

To help with constructive debate it is good practice to quote specific comments that you are replying to, otherwise things get very puzzling and it's not clear what is a response to what or whom.

It also helps to actually be constructive, and that doesn't include telling others what they did or didn't mean. Please let them define that, and make your own points civilly and without heat.

This is why I stated at the very beginning that this is a sensitive topic and should be addressed with care. It's very possibly why Larian stayed away from sexual preference as far as gender went at the very beginning, which I both admire and also shun in equal measure. One one hand, it allows the player to engage in romance with whom they want; on the other, it's not very believable due to the nature of sexuality itself. Just as we all have preferences of whom we find attractive, we also have opinions on how that will manifest. Add in the options of polyamory, and it only muddies the water further. Why be open and free with one (sexuality) but not the other (poly or mono)?

An argument could be made for any and all sides, but at the end of the day, all we can do is speculate and air our grievances and opinions. When I said Larian did well enough, I meant well enough, not perfect. It's a very difficult implementation to add, and I think they handled it fairly well. Again, not perfectly, but well.

For me, personally, it's always about the story. I'm in no way saying that has to be anyone else's, so please don't start. When we veer from discussion and devolve into fallacies, the conversation breaks down. I love reading and hearing everyone's take on several topics, but the biting comments do nothing to further debate.

In short: It's not easy to write such thing's narratively due to the complexity of what poly entails. Side note - Cheating isn't the same as having an open relationship. And just because you're poly doesn't mean you're fine with your significant other being with everyone. So, the act one VS act two VS act three debate is another story all together.

Seems my 'in short' wasn't all that short... Oh well.

With the discussion and assumptions about SH as a child... 😑

Bi is normal in this world.