Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Astarion and Shadowheart Poly interactions

Made this account to finally just post on this forum so hopefully they see and change it, I won't go into too much detail why as there are many discussions that detail this probably on here, reddit and many other forums. I know there are many other people that want this altered and changed as well, as it doesn't make sense for Spawn Astarion and Selune Shadowheart to be okay with cheating with Mizora and their reaction to poly in act three because of so many inconstancies and poly being felt like it's forced and portrayed poorly, there should be nuance between paths. I know and saw that Astarion got a rework for his reaction to Mizora and HOPE they change Selune Shadowhearts reaction to the point where she will break up with you and is hurt by the players actions. My other issue is both Selune Shadowheart and Spawn Astarion being okay with poly on these route there are so many problems and inconsistencies with it , it makes sense for them to be okay with it on their bad routes where Astarion is controlling and Shadowheart is brainwashed and corrupted to not believe in love and still hold her views of Shar. To try and put it briefly why it's bad (I'm sure other people will jump in and elaborate), makes nonsense and why they should change it, Astarion was SA and clearly isn't in the right mindset and is unsure of the idea and Shadowheart has many lines that shows why she wouldn't be into it like "I don't want to be a spare lover" while also her situation of being SA but in a not obvious way like Astarion and she was pressured and forced to participate in these activities, Halsin feels like a self insert and late addition that just ruins the immersion, RP and character arcs. But that's all I know other people feel the same and didn't want to write and rant on and on about why it should change as others have stated it else where.


Larian please change this for them
-Selune Shadowheart NOT being okay with poly with the drow twins, Halsin and her breaking up with the player after cheating on her with Mizora
-Spawn Astarion NOT being okay with poly with the drow twins and Halsin.
-Lastly a for everyone thing can we get something for the Harleep interaction they all are just okay with it for some reason.

Some Links
https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGat...y_ruin_characters_development_very_long/
https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGat...ly_romance_between_astariontavhalsin_is/
https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/175aprn/it_is_weird_how_selune_sh_is_fine_with_poly/
Youtube Title "Shadowheart Refuses to be a Side Chick/ Polygamy | Baldur's Gate 3 (BG3)"

Another thread on this forum
https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=891758&page=1

It is true that we have had similar discussions here before, and they have often been extremely uncomfortable, with posters appearing to equate monogamy with "good" routes and willingness to try more open relationships with "evil". It should be clear that this is likely to be upsetting and offensive to some forum members.

Can I remind everyone that this space is for everyone regardless of gender, gender identity/expression, sexuality, religion, race, ethnicity, or nationality. Offensive content or harassment on this basis, either personal or generalised, will not be tolerated?

If we do feel we need to discuss this topic again, please be respectful of your fellow forum members and very, very careful that what you say does not have negative implications about real life sexual preferences of others.

There is a thread about the topic around Shadow and Astarion out of all companions being the poly options in Character and Story. Baseline was, that it is a bit strange that the polys are all ( or general abuse in Shadows case) victims.
I think, this is the thread: https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=879967#Post879967

Generally, I do like a poly route, but it is not very well implemented in the game ( one of the few things, I do not like). I personally think, that Shadowheart being open in general to it, is ok, she was pretty smitten with Karlach for example.
I just don't think, that Halsin as a character as he is written in act 3, is a good representation. He is more written as a horny guy, than anything else.
And Astarion with his background doesn't really work for me in that context either.
The whole twin situation in the brothrel is just messed up tbh. If you romance anyone else but Halsin, it feels as if you force your partner to participate. I prefer to talk with the twins about their future and the murder case, because everything else is done pretty cringe.

Poly in general is not evil or good, it is a relationship situation like any other.

Can you explain, what you want to address with Haarlep? I think, it is the most creepy encounter in the whole game, if you through with it and the aftermath is horrible. I'm ok with it though, because it hammers home, that everything to do with devils and hells will have a cost.

With Harleep, I feel as if there isn't much explanation or reactions from your love interest or companions to you going through with it but maybe I missed something there.

The association of "evil" happens because that's where their experience and trauma comes from but still doesn't make sense for it to be that way with many inconsistencies and wish for it to be changed on their "good" paths (Selune/Spawn). Maybe you a Mod can put in the good word for this to be changed and altered.

Sorry, I have expanded my post during your answer.

Ah, ok, I see. Yes, there should be more reaction from the companions for sure, especially the love interest.

I'm afraid that both as a mod and as an individual I am uncomfortable with the implication that an openness to poly or open relations per se is equated with either evil or trauma, and am very much in favour of giving gamers the opportunity to roleplay more positive open relationships with Selune Shadowheart and Spawn Astarion if that is what they wish. I would strongly disagree with the suggestion that the option is removed, and think doing so would send a worryingly negative message about Larian's attitude to non-monogamy.

Which isn't to say that I think that all the writing is consistent and couldn't be improved, and as with many other places in the game I'm sure tweaks could help make it better. Though I'll admit this is not a priority area for me.

Red Queen is right, that poly is not evil. I do agree with you, that some characters make more sense than others and as I wrote in my extended version of my first post, I think Shadow being open to poly with the right person, might not be that out of the field. Astarion has had to , therefore I don't think, he works well here.
Halsin just doesn't work at all for me, because I don't think, he was ever written as a serious representation for poly, but basically a meme. And the way it is implemented including disapprovals, if you say no to Halsin, is not well done.

Yeah, for me it's also simply Halsin, who is really icky. The smarmy way he comes on to you, the gaslighting (pressuring you, when you politely decline because you supposedly quized him about his love-life - even if you didn't) and his atrocious behaviour in the brothel (The vulture line above all) all make my skin crawl in the very worst way.

I would prefer a way of getting your love's thoughts but then telling them you'd much rather keep it between the two of you. For example, with Astarion you can say, "I'm not sure, I wanted to get your thoughts." He then says you can have as much Halsin as you'd like but then he proposes the question of "its not because we haven't in awhile?" I wish there were a way of saying "What are your thoughts?" then proceeding to tell them you would actually want the relationship to stay monogamous.

I think its very great to allow poly relationships in the game & I don't think evil pathed companions should only have the option. I think the discussion between you & the partner should've been more thorough.

I never stated anything regarding good or evil routes that's just how it ended up due to Shadowheart being forced into those practices by Shar, but I strongly disagree just because it is related to their “good” or “evil” paths doesn’t imply that poly is bad. It makes no sense, there are inconsistencies in their writing and then being poly wasn’t set up or thought out or set up from the start. Them removing it and changing it would better fit their characters and writing and I don’t think it sends a lord message of poly as Halsin with still be a show of poly with the drow and mizora.

Overall the poly situation just is inconsistent and poor with Astarion and Shadowheart on their “good” routes and it should be changed/removed and nuanced for their other paths.

I have no horse in this race- and, in fact, some biases against Halsin. Nevertheless, eh, I don't think it's that big of a deal.
I don't think it's too crazy that they might've chosen who to make available for poly based on popularity, but I also don't think it's *extremely* OOC for them or anything. I feel like they ran into the issue where most of their cast feels very strictly monogamous, but they still wanted to offer the poly option.
I think with Astarion some people worry about the whole thing because of some lines that could've been handled better, and his backstory making people nervous around the topic. That being said, I don't see why someone with a backstory of SA is obligatorily not okay with their partner being poly.

Shadowheart is complicated because on one hand I can see a bunch of girl next door tropes applied to her because of her romance being a slow burn and her being a secretly soft Defrosting Ice Queen, which to most people tends to suggest monogamy (whether that's a correct association or not), while on the other they've implied she's quite sexually open and/or liberated, often enough for me not to consider it out of character that she'd be okay with several partners (note that someone being sexually adventurous doesn't equal with being okay with polygamy- hopefully I'm making sense here. I mean, see Gale, he's one of the freakiest guys and I can never see him as poly).

Also, to be frank: I don't care that much. I don't want poly, so I don't pick it, and I don't see it.

I never said or meant to intend that poly is evil. I don’t think Shadowheart is the right choice for poly where she has lines that show otherwise. Being smitten about a characters like Karlach doesn’t mean that someone is or might be poly. I would have preferred someone that doesn’t have trauma and bad experiences with sex such as Astarion and Shadowheart to be okay with poly like Karlach would have been good. I just want them to change it for Shadowheart and Astarion because is ver inconsistent, ruins some character development and I think gives and paints a port representation of poly.

I agree with you, I'm not poly so I never pick the option. I reload just to see Astarion's impression of Halsin bc it makes me laugh lol

I agree with this just because on their “good” path they should not be ok with poly doesn’t paint the picture that poly is “evil” it just doesn’t make sense for them to be ok with poly on that path. I hope they change and alter it to where they aren’t fine with poly on that path and nuance it between paths. It ruins some of their story arc because of it the addition of poly seems poor and a late and last minute thought because Halsin wasn’t even supposed to be a companion.

And just because it’s “too late” doesn’t mean they can’t change it they should change it and make it better, right and correct for the character.

I really hope they listen and change it.

Ah, I'd also have to add that poly is handled a bit weirdly, I think, in that it'd feel more authentic if it was possible with anyone other than Halsin. I mean, if Shadowheart is okay with Tav dating Halsin, why not Astarion, you know? I think the reasoning for this is that maybe it was a bit of a coding nightmare to make everything so open, but I'm unsure and not particularly savvy in gamedev. Astarion does specifically mention that he's ok with the Halsin arrangement because Halsin is "experienced with that kind of arrangement", so I guess that was their explanation for why one but not the other. But I could see why that's jarring to people, or makes the poly system feel very limited.

I could also see someone like Karlach being okay with poly, but I think that similarly, like with Astarion, she has some baggage (that being her years of loneliness) that might make people uncomfortable with the idea (and I repeat: that's regardless of whether or not people are right in having that concern)

I agree that it could have been implemented and written a bit better, there are certainly issues, but unfortunately, at this point, IMO, it's too late already.
I mean, for example, Astarion epilogues with a mindflayer Tav are still a complete and utter mess. Spawn also feels utterly neglected, compared to AA, he also has absolutely no reaction to being kidnapped hy his siblings. These are much more pressing matters, IMO.
So at this point, I would much rather Larian fix their glaring huge bugs and inconsistencies before walking away from the game, instead of wasting time on something that at least somewhat works already.

I thought about that too. It would be more interesting if, after the characters have gotten to know each other better, you could maybe come back to a possible love interest the player might have had in act 1 and spin a tale from this, which would be fairly personal to that player's play through. But what a coding nightmare. With the romance-banter being unlocked for the game now, the characters' comments about each other's romances can get a second layer of meaning if both of them are at the flirting stage with you. Lae'zel and Shadowheart bonding over hair braiding for example - or Gale and Lae'zel discussing the use of psionics during sex very rationally (I love these two).

I agree with this as well, but ultimately nothing is going to change considering the unintentional implications of restricting poly to the evil paths. It won't send a good message, that's for sure.
Honestly, this is only an issue because of Halsin's late addition as a romance, it's not like they approached this topic with the intention of giving people a good poly representation. It simply was the easiest way to make the Halsin romance option available for as many players as possible without losing their main romance and having to break up with them.
As for Shadowheart and Astarion, they were clearly only chosen to be fine with it because they are the most popular female and male romance options, regardless of any inconsistencies the previous writing creates. The same would've happened if they chose other origins to be fine with this, as none of them were written as poly from the start.

She is an option for poly, actually. She'll give Tav her consent to be with Halsin. But she gives off the same vibes Astarion does, if not even more so, and from what I've seen in the fandom, most people believe she only accepts it because she's about to die and doesn't want to disappoint Tav.

I agree with pretty much everything you said, although I think it makes more sense for Ascended Astarion to be against Halsin, and Spawn Astarion to be a bit more permissive of him. Ascended Astarion is supposed to be very possessive and controlling and it's kinda strange that they're so inconsistent with it. Spawn Astarion's current reaction is alright as it is. With Shadowheart, yeah, Selune Shadowheart accepting poly and letting you cheat on her with Mizora is absurd. In act 1 and 2, she appears to be monogamous. There's that "I'd never want to be your spare lover" line like you mentioned and there's also monogamous aligned banter where she turns down Astarion for a date because she's dating you. What's even more bizarre, is in Act 3 you can tell her that she WILL be the spare lover in your relationship with Halsin, and that you're not sure if there will be space for her in your and Halsin's relationship, and she'll just be like "oh well there's a lot of places I can squeeze in between you two ;)". Like okay? I guess the romantic relationship is frivolous now that Halsin's arrived? All she wants is sex sex sex now? Truly awful and actually ruins her romance IMO. And that doesn't even touch on the fact that she flirts with him in Act 3 even when you're not in a poly relationship with all of them. Super tacky

Her being okay with Halsin and Mizora on her Sharran route is fine since she's not truly in a relationship with you anyway, although her reaction to Mizora still makes no sense. Why would you have to ask her permission for anything when her heart belongs to Shar and you're just sneaking around?

The biggest shame is that none of this will ever be changed. I think Larian is pretty much done making big narrative changes.