Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Larian please give Spawn Astarion one more kiss!

He says "how could I say no?" playfully so it works for me, but I can see why people don't like it. I do wish UA has more unique lines like this. I agree the other lines here work perfectly, so I'm not sure why the devs consider them deprecated.

I've never been too fond of this line- it seems a bit tone deaf to me considering where he's coming from. Even just a line from Tav "You can always say no," phrased better than that, would be enough to make it feel OK for me.

Agreed! I don't like that he says it because pookie you can most definitely tell me no.

Literally just one more to make it even with everyone else would mean so much (I’d love if he got a neck kiss like what’s in the files or something that showed his cheeky side as his others completely lack personality).

At the very least they need to fix the angle of that second kiss so we’re not awkwardly staring at his back!

If AA really gets one more kiss which is currently unfinished in the game's files, then no, it's not enough for Spawn to get only one, in my opinion. It will be 3 vs 5.
I'm really tired of their constant disparity in content. Especially after Shadowheart getting equal amounts for her both routes (4 and 4) right from the release day of Patch 6.
Please, Larian, make their content at least even. Spawn fans have been ignored for far too long compared to all the love which was given to AA.

Agreed. The content disparity between AA and Spawn upsets me too. I don't think I've seen anyone point it out yet, but Spawn also only has one response to "what are we to you?" while AA has multiple (4?). Well, adding more lines to Spawn here would require getting Neil Newbon back. So I'm not necessarily demanding that, though it would make me very happy. I bring it up as more evidence of the disappointing content disparity.

Don't way more players keep Astarion as a spawn anyway? So why does Larian seem to favor the AA route so heavily? It genuinely feels like Spawn Astarion was given less love. I really hope Larian sees our feedback on the content disparity and make it more equal as much as they can.

Folks, I don’t think it’s helpful to frame this as spawn vs ascended Astarion. If there is specific content you would like to see for the spawn route it might be better to make the positive case for that.

Particularly as I note that some of the people complaining that AA gets too much attention are, in other threads, requesting changes to AA animations.

The Red Queen, I didn't want to frame it as Spawn vs AA, it's really not about it at all.This is my genuine criticism of Larian that they seems to prioritize some routes instead of making it even.
But if I'm forbidden to speak about this criticism out loud, then please, make it clear. I don't see anything in the forum rules about that.


With all due respect, I think you misunderstood our requests in those threads. Personally, I said multiple times that I DON'T want Larian to work on AA animations again. All people ask is a simple toggle switch between two existing animations. You don't need to work on AA animations for that, they already have it.

Yes, I am not trying to start any Spawn vs AA fights and I'm sorry if it came off that way. I have nothing against AA fans; I like him myself. I brought it up because my feedback is that I'm unhappy with the disparity between the two routes. Because it's the same character, it's easy to compare 1:1 the disparity in content between the two routes. Basically, I'm not trying to start fights, I'm supporting my argument with facts.

Same with Rote90, I have always been against adding more animations to AA and still am. I see adding an option to have the old AA kiss animations back as different from adding new content, because they already existed. I would bet that Larian still has the animation files.

As I’ve said in other threads, please follow moderation guidance in thread and contact me by PM if you have any questions or concerns rather than entering into public debate.

You may not have wanted to frame your comments as spawn vs AA but that is how it came across, especially in light of your interactions in other threads. And let’s not quibble about the detail of what has been requested elsewhere. It should be clear that people will find it frustrating to see people arguing in one place for changes - whatever they are - to AA and in another place complaining AA gets too much attention from Larian. This is very easy to avoid by talking about what you do want to see in the spawn route rather than making it sound like a competition.

That said, while personally I don’t find it at all self-evident that different romance arcs should have the same amount of content or that fairness (as opposed to the demands of narrative) has anything to do with it, and find it far more compelling to hear about specific additional content people would like to see, if people do want to try to make the positive case that Larian should provide more equal amounts of content then, as long as it doesn’t derail the thread, that is fine. However, as with all posting here, it should be constructive, civil, avoid berating anyone and should stop well before it gets to the point of flooding the forum with repetitive posts.

If you wish to discuss further, please pick up with me by private message and I will respond in the morning (it’s now past my bedtime!)

Exactly this! Consent is sexy.

As for focusing on a specific wishlist
- a kiss for spawn Astarion that's unique to his spawn path post-Cazador, which shows him being more comfortable with a romanced Tav either through silliness or sweetness or both

- more dialouge in the epilogue discussing whatever spawn Astarion and Tav decided to do, whether it's traveling to the Underdark or searching for a way to walk in the sun. Even more specifically, one that implies some kind of inside jokes or shared history over the past few months. Imo, I'd love to see them "thick as thieves" in a romantic way. Maybe Tav trying to make Astarion laugh? Or a chance to sit by the fire together and talk?

- honestly probably the most important of these- the spawn route dock scene. It's so incongrous with his story how he's left on his own, romanced or not. It's so sad how he's just lost his ability to be in the sun, something he clearly values a ton, and you just kinda watch him leave without having the ability to do anything.

Personally I haven't participated in AA threads, but I don't understand why you can't have an opinion on both topics and the right to express it. Even if you have a favorite version, you can appreciate and play both routes. I think people aren't asking for new animations to be added to AA, but for the ability to choose between the two that already exist, so that everyone is free to roleplay as they want in their game. Not everyone can install mods and I think it's fair that the player can choose how they want their character to react and not have it imposed on them, one way or another.

On the other hand, it's hard to be constructive if you can't compare Spawn Astarion's lack of content to the rest of the characters, and not just Ascended. He's the character with the least kisses, and it's normal for people to express their disappointment and argue why other characters like Shadowheart have the same amount of content in both of their routes, while Astarion doesn't. These are just facts that I think are fair to mention.

Finally, I just want to add that I strongly agree with Lucorna's list.

There is a sort of discrepancy in the promoted messaging when it's on the one hand (I am exaggerating for the purpose of getting the point across) "Poor Spawn Astarion has been horribly neglected compared to all, but especially compared to his direct counterpart Ascended Astarion" and on the other hand asking for a completely new toggle feature to be implemented for Ascended Astarion alone (like a new system that does not yet exist in the game) to give him an even larger flexibility in the ability to smooch him. I find that very weird too. *

Just like there is no reason to get agitated over some unfinished kiss animations, which might be in the game files for all sorts of reasons, because they might present yet another perceived slight towards UA in favour of AA.

I also feel that the "How could I say no?" sounds more like someone being offered a treat they can't resist and making a show of it, and not like a serious discussion of consent. But who knows, maybe the devnotes proof my perception wrong.


* *coughs* I hope that didn't breach the boundaries of letting a topic rest.

Alright, I've obviously not been clear so I will try one more time, but after that if people continue to derail this thread by discussing moderation guidance with me here rather than directly message me as I've requested, I am gong to temporarily lock it until everyone has caught up.

There's of course nothing wrong with having and expressing opinions with lots of different characters and their story arcs or stating facts about the game. But if someone is giving feedback in different AA threads (not just ones about kiss animations) suggesting changes to the current game (even if they are minor) and at the same time are quite emotively complaining about lack of love or fairness and spawn fans being ignored at the expense of AA, then it is likely to raise eyebrows. And if they have already been repeatedly asked to remember the rules about inciting discussion about community infighting and constructive and respectful discussion in AA threads, appearing to frame the request here as a competition for attention is unlikely to do them any favours when it comes to having friendlier and more civil AA discussions in future with those they've come into conflict with before. (And yes, perhaps I've exaggerated somewhat for effect here, which is why I am not naming any names.)

I have not issued any formal warnings and if you look at my initial intervention it was framed as a suggestion rather than an instruction: there has been entirely too much upset around AA discussion here recently, and I would very much hope that anyone who has been part of that would want to be careful not to bring down more grief. When I make such suggestions, my hope is that people will read and then bear them in mind in future posting in the thread if they think they are relevant to them (and can ignore them if they don't apply).

My intervention was aimed at trying to avoid more community infighting here or elsewhere and helping everyone interact more constructively. Clearly it failed and has just caused a different kind of drama, which isn't what I wanted and I'm sorry for that. I promise I am doing my best to help everyone have a more positive experience and create an environment where people can have constructive, respectful discussions and perhaps I'm even asking folk to take pity on me! It has sometimes felt like a full time job behind the scenes to keep the peace in Astarion discussions, and that not having worked I've been trying to expose more of the mod work we do by making it more public. But that clearly has drawbacks too, as not everyone seeing those interventions has the context to know where they're coming from.

I hope that clarifies, and as I said let us please now draw a line under this digression. Feel free to get back to discussing additional content you want to see in the game!

I do think this is the intention of the line, just given the context it's uncomfortable imo.

Lower down on the wishlist is:

- after Halsin offers a side fling, I really wish they'd add a dialouge option for "hey [romantic partner], I only have eyes for you but for the sake of openness I wanted to let you know this happened."

It's definitely not at the top of the list compared to the other items, but it feels weird to be propositioned but not to have any followup with your LI that's " I said no, but you should still know this happened."