Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Poll.Which option of facial expression do you want to leave in kisses with Ascended Astarion

+1. Agreed. So rarely do we get a villain romance in an RPG. More so one that caters so well to an underrepresented demographic. It's a great and fun story. Would be a shame to flush it for moralizing imo. I'm very happy with the romance having the same positive roleplay quality as all other companion romances.

I don’t quite get your point. You like that there is a villain romance story, same honestly, it’s different and it’s fun. But then you want it to be the same as every other romance story too, with Tav being unconditionally happy even though the dynamic is not the same as everyone else? I’m also happy with the villain story having a positive roleplay, but you cannot deny that not everyone plays it this way, as proven by the 6 months of players romancing AA with patch 6 expressions.

Yes. I think all companion romances should share the same element of consensual:) and I do not think that a women/queer audience should be singled out for a lecture on relationships and morality. The IRL implications of that type of writing is highly problematic imo. Women/queer people are already shamed for being sexual, and infantilized to the point of "needing to be taught" enough.

I find it much more refreshing with all other patches previous to patch 6, and the patch after!

I agree. Neither side needs to lose their roleplay. If the player could continue to choose for their Tav to be happy in the relationship, I don't think other players being allowed to keep their own story with the original Patch 6 faces too would take anything away from that or add an element of moralizing. It would just mean everyone could play their Tav and story in a way that makes sense to them and they are comfortable with.

+10000! You're right

It was fine for five whole patches until Patch 6 came along. Now it's again aligned with how it always was before.

I'm a queer woman and I strongly disagree the AA romance was moralizing and infantalizing queer women at any point in any patch. Astarion's fans are probably largely women and queer people, but all of the companions were intended to be queer.

@Natasy, I have requested that we avoid bringing up sensitive topics in this thread, given it is unnecessary in order to vote and give a quick summary of why. You should know because you have brought up these points before that others disagree about the implications of the interpretation that doesn't match your own for women/queer players, and any discussion of that would need to be very careful given real life, personal and political implications, so please do not derail this thread by bringing it up again here.

Let's draw a line under this discussion in this thread.

I would love to pick your brain on this, since discussion is not the purpose here, if you could shoot me a PM would be appreciated.

None of this is about consent or not, the game assumes there is consent because Tav is still in the relationship and they are still asking for kisses. Nothing canonically non-con about it. Like people have been saying, patch 7 is not bad in itself, but if you didn’t like the narrative patch 6 pushed, people have the right to not like the narrative patch 7 pushes. And you, as someone who thought the same about patch 6, should be understanding and compassionate about this problem.

As long as people aren’t going around saying ‘if you pick happier facial expressions your character is being abused’ then it shouldn’t matter at the end of the day. But AA already has the issue that people will use his break up lines as proof that your character is in an unhappy relationship. If you* plan on doing that to other players in an attempt to ruin their roleplay enjoyment though, you are acting in bad faith then.

*I am using a general ‘you’

I don't think that's a fair assumption to make. There's no reason to assume bad faith when all they said was that they think there should be options and that neither narrative needs to be pushed onto everyone.

Yes, please let's assume good faith on the part of other forum members and keep things friendly and constructive, and also not to rise to everything that we might see as a provocation.

To be fair, I don't think SpookyBookey actually accused any Yassi99 of bad faith, but it did seem a bit out of left field so I do have my concern that this is inciting discussion around previous community infighting which is always against our forum rules and I've specifically asked we are careful to avoid in this thread.

Let's draw yet another line, and try even harder to engage with those with whom we may not agree respectfully and constructively.

No of course not, honestly in any case anyone who says such things should get themselves checked out. This is a horrible thing to say to people in general, but especially in a game.

But the fact is that the line about the break up does exist. Of course, if you don’t click it it’s like it never happened. I don’t think the existence of that line and others alone determines whether or not Tav enjoys the relationship. Just because he does refuse a breakup doesn’t mean that Tav must be scared of him of course, on the other hand, just because Tav asks for more kisses also doesn’t mean they must be enjoying it. There have been posts about valid and very good RP reasons for both facial expressions. All of his actions can be interpreted one way or the other, abusive or not. This is not about it though. It’s about pushing a narrative that obviously a lot of people don’t like. And that’s what I meant when I said you should be compassionate with people on the other side since you were in the exact same position just a few months ago and I understand it sucked.

Since bath are already done, they can be used together and the player can pick what they want Tav to think about it. It’s unfortunate that it’s again Astarion who splits the fandom, but that’s what writing a complex and loved character gets you. I’m thankful to larian for making him this way, even if it does lead to arguments. I guess it’s a show of how well written he is.

Edit: sorry didn’t see the comment from TRQ

The original set of expressions supported the theme of the story. It should not have been changed.

Yes, I apologize I was using the general ‘you,’ and should have been clearer in that during my post. I will edit my post to clarify that now!

Sorry for misunderstanding!

It doesn't matter if the MC smiles or has a scared face, the romance itself doesn't change. At least that's how I see it.

Eh I didn’t take it as a personal attack anyway. All good. I’m just saying, anyone can have their narrative and HC, and I’m sorry that you had to resort to mods to make the game fit yours, but arguing against having both expressions, which wouldn’t take anything away from other group, is so silly. Both expression sets are already done. Patch 6 supporters for the most part don’t even want to have patch 6 ONLY back, they understand that that would suck as well. For the most part it’s only those who want to keep patch 7 only who don’t want to compromise to have both which I frankly don’t understand. Quite honestly, I do prefer patch 6, imo it fits his narrative a lot better. Still, I don’t want to take away other people’s RP for my own. All I ask is the same in return.



Exactly. We can’t change Astarions story, so changing anything about him (like deleting the lines about break up refusal etc) is off the table. But we most certainly can and should be able to influence how Tav feels about him since he undergoes the most drastic change in the game. His romance stays the same, but Tav has a say in it now.

No. Is it too much to ask to respect that other players say "No". No means no. I do not want Patch 6 in the game, because of what it implies togheter, the expressions and the animation. It is not a romance anymore when it is there in full or as an option.

Blaming other players for taking away RP is not ok either. Larian does what Larian wants, it's not mine or anyone elses fault what is in the game or not.

Same, facial expressions in patch 6 was a mistake, and Larian fixed it. We don't want any “second options”. And we can express our opinions on that.

Agreed. I don't want the new expressions to be taken away from other people. Only an option for myself and others to keep the stories we experienced originally. Personally I find the new expressions very distressing to look at, but I'm still happy for the players who prefer them to have them in their games. All I want to ask for is an option to not have to see them in my own game, on my own character, without having to give up a story that was very important to me altogether.
I also don't think the game would have been advertised with the original expressions and left them in for half a year if they had just been a mistake that needed to be fixed and not an intentional addition.