Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Wyll should make his own decisions

SInce I didn't read it in the patch 7 notes and Wyll often gets forgotten, I want to ask, if he will finally be able to make his own decisions with patch 7. Somehow he is the only character, we have to make the decisions for, everyone else in the group makes their own decisions, with Tav maybe persuating.
And since he is teh dukes son, tehre should be a bit more reaction to him in the city imo.
So basically please let Wyll decide what he wants to do and let people recognise him in BG. That would be great.

The people of BG3 cannot recognise him as they don't know him. He ran off into the wild when he was a teen. Top-level aristocrat tweens are rather unlikely to be known by sight to the wider Public.
"You Ravengard's son? Yeah, and Elminster's my daddy. Fuck off, druggie!"

Wyll was 17 when he left Baldur's Gate and he was the only son and appointed heir to the Grand Duke.

At the time of Baldur's Gate 3 between 5-10 years have passed since he was exiled by his father.

For comparison this is a picture of Jude Bellingham at 16:



And this is Jude Bellingham at 21:



Are you telling me you wouldn't immediately recognize that this is the same person?

I agree that it should be possible to allow Wyll to make his own mind up about what to do about his contract and his father. In fact, I think I reported the inability to do so as a bug in my first playthrough as it felt so wrong not to let him decide for himself.

Particularly as the other party members then were all judgy about him breaking the contract, when it was my character's call!

I do hope this is one of the improvements made to Wyll's writing in patch 7.

I really hope too, but just in case that not, I thought I make a little 'Justice for Wyll' thread. They did him a bit dirty.
I'm actually one of the people, who liked the rewrite, but I think, they should have given him more reactivity and more to do. His story, together with Lae'zels, is the one, mostly tied to the main story and still, many people don't even recognise that Iron Throne and Ansur are basically part of his personal quest.

The reactions to breaking the pact are so weird. In my game, Wyll had already gotten out of his first contract, and he was just waiting for the 6 months to be up. Selling his soul again makes him a tool for Mizora and ultimately Zariel. Mizora has already tried to trick him into killing an innocent person, Karlach. That's a completely pragmatic, non-selfish reasons why it's a terrible deal. But we can't point this out to the companions.

Their reactions are supportive if Shadowheart decides to kill her parents to escape pain. Why is that considered acceptable but avoiding eternal damnation isn't? At least Jaheira points out that any decent parent would never want want their child to take such a deal.

Agreed, the reactions are all over the place with Wyll. I think, he deserves better, especially since they all were glad, when he decided to end his pact in the first place.

With other companions like Shadowheart, Astarion and Lae'zel taking them along on the quests that involve them can have a huge impact on the outcome and aftermath, but with Wyll it just doesn't matter if he is there or not.

"Oh Wyll, by the way, we saved your dad from the Iron Throne. He is over there in the corner, maybe you two should talk."

Yes, I hate that. I make it my special focus to have him in my party and freeing his dad, when I do that quest.
That is, what I mean: people don't even realise that this is one of Wylls quests, same with Ansur.

In Ansur's case, I am very salty that the quest gets hijacked .... As for the rest, I also think it's weird that the characters talk like Wyll made a choice while I made it for him. It makes me wonder if something different was planned here and eventually switched to what we have now.

Sometimes they even talk as if he made a choice that he didn't:

-Poor Wyll had to sacrifice his father to get out of his deal with Mizora.

-No he didn't, his father is right there, 10 feet away from you.

Agreed, it is strange, that they didn't fix this so far. Wyll is an origin companion and should get a bit more treatment. For me, he is the companion, that is the most tied to the main story, together with Lae'zel. And still his story is treated like that of some random npc.

I also get the feeling the reactions were written for an older version of Wyll's questline/arc. I actually think that may be the case for a few of the reactions after meeting Elminster again in Act 3.

Minsc says, "Goddess or no, it is a fearsome sting to be let down by a lover." Selunite Shadowheart says, "Poor Gale. I hope he knows that a goddess abandoning him needn't be the end - I know from experience." The news is that Mystra wants to talk to him now. It's the least abandoned he's been all game. I'm very curious about what Gale's arc was before rewrites, and how that impacted Mystra's characterization, but that's getting off topic.

Just had the scene with him having to decide, if he breaks the pact or not in act 3 again. He broke the pact (or I did for him, since the poor guy can't decide for his own) and Karlach is adamant, he remade the pact and is now Zariels slave. How can that be so long in the game?

Especially with the entire backstory of Wyll evolving around how he is a rebel that forged his own path and made decisions that though they weren't necessarily the best ones, they were ultimately his and he will stand by them and face the consequences.

To be fair, Wyll is also the one who can actually oppose the main character and defend the grove against them. Problem with Karlach and the pact lies not within Wyll's lack of character, but in the overwhelming difficulty of choice. It is not the choice between 'evil path' and 'good path'.

You believe Karlach and spare her, you potentially get turned into a lemure and the Coast loses its sworn protector - many more families die at the hand of beasts and men.

You believe your source and kill Karlach, you gamble on saving the Sword Coast from the potentially dangerous infernal.

You agree to break the pact and forsake your father. That means the Gate loses its great general who contributed greatly to pursuing ideals that are embedded in Wyll's heart and mind. That ALSO means Wyll is now free from hurting the realms on the devil's command, there won't be new Karlach he needs to kill, there won't be time spent differently than helping the people.

Wyll's story is a balancing act, there is no obvious choice here, thats why I think its important to propose some hidden system aka 'nightsong points' for the change to be helpful, not harmful.

@SteelTempest: Not to forget Halsin and his cryptic "I am sorry, but Mystra is wrong about you, Gale." What? Why? What do you know that I don't? It's the one that confuses me most of all. All the others can still be seen as a reflection of their past break-up and as concern that the reunion might not go well, but Halsin seems to be very certain about Mystra's opinion of Gale.

I don't feel Wyll is especially tied to the main plot - only Gale, Lae'zel and Durge are baked into it, Shadowheart maybe - but it's weird that you can't even suss out what his opinion might be and maybe have to convince him away from it. Depending on what you pick, he sometimes seems to fluctuate between defender of the Sword Coast and power-grabby noble within seconds without any foreshadowing that political power might be an interest of his. I also don't think it was the best decision to have his plot get even more muddled if you recruit Karlach than if you let her die in act 1.

I think Wyll is pretty tied to the main story: he is Duke Ravenguards son, his father becomes a victim of the three Stooges, he knows Florrick and has special dialogue with her in all three instances ( four, if he breaks the pact) we meet her. We get the info about Ansur normally from his father ( never had it in a different way), Mizora , probably on Zariels orders, has a special interest in the whole affair. If I ever okay an origin, it will be Wyll - he and Durge have main character energy.
I think Shadowheart has ties to the main story in act 2, act 3 is more the resolve of her personal story. Gale has the fact, that Mystra wants the Stooges stopped and his ambition for the crown, Lae'zel has imo the most ties to the main story via her knowledge about mindflayers, Orpheus etc.
Karlach via Gortash, but that is all. Jaheira and Minsc have a personal interest in the Bhaal cult, Halsin and Astarion -I got nothing there. I think Cazador was in an early version planned as being tied to the whole plot,at least there are voice lines, where he offers us help. It might have been scratched with the scrapped idea of a plot in the upper city.

I think what I mean is: Wyll, with all I have listed above, should be tied even more, since he knows a lot of people in BG, is the ex via his father who is shown as a key figure and I'm honestly wondering why he got sidelined so much in act 3. Which is basically the point, I want to make ( sorry if it is unnecessarily complicated, I'm a bit tired and sick today and the brain isn't functioning too well:) )

There is a difference in ageing from 17 to 21 and from 17 to 27.
Also, different people age differently.
And, as I've said, in a city that size not that many people were acquainted with Ravengard's son. Servants, guards, some peers of the Duke, some playmates.

I feel that the "great general" thing is actually something the writing fails at portraying. I found the game told me Ulder was a great leader, but I didn't feel I was ever really shown it. The Flaming Fist is shown as corrupt, and he spends most of the game as a damsel in distress. I presume he is portrayed as competent in his other appearances in the franchise, but he's important enough that we shouldn't have to dig for that info outside the game itself. It made the argument that he was vital for the good of the city fall really flat, at least for me.