Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Justice for Minthara

Don't know if this counts, but I just looked at the script and there's this:

324. Player: Is that any way to greet your lover?
6. Nightwarden Minthara: Were I to take a lover from the Faerûnian pantheon, I assure you it would not be the runt of the litter.

^^ Sounds about right. Though apparently that is also a new bug, because this now has snuck into my save too, in which they should just be friends. More bugs, yeah.

_____________________________________________________

PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT
_____________________________________________________

Anyone planning to have Minthara in the party during a paragon playthrough; DO NOT KNOCK HER OUT DURING THE RAID IN ACT I.

Do it at the Goblin Camp instead, otherwise you'll end up with this permanent annoying bug causing her to globally keep pulling Cerys into every single combat encounter throughout ACT II and ACT III, as the game keeps unloading and loading entire areas whenever she gets her turn.

Just turn off the dynamic combat camera if you got this one. Not saying that it wouldn't be nice if this one got fixed, but I noticed that there are people who don't realise you can switch the camera following combat off.

That's actually pretty great advice.

Will at least make it bearable enough to suffer through this bug for the remainder of the playthrough until it gets fixed (if it even gets fixed), even though it also sucks not being able to track everything that's happening on the battlefield.

I've sent everything to Larian to troubleshoot it and fix it, including proof that over 6454 confirmed players ran into this bug and countless more who simply resorted to killing Cerys just to stop this from happening, so hopefully they'll fix this.

*coughs* What I forgot to write, I have read several people mention that Cerys will enter combat on the opponents' side if you start a fight too close to her. This usually comes up in connection to defending the portal for Halsin. Haven't checked this myself but it sounds like the type of annoyance you might not want to run into on HM.

Unfortunately for me I've no choice but to run into every single bug, am Minthara's Quality Assurance Manager at this point

But hopefully it helps others. Am also multitasking this entire playthrough to the maximum by having Karlach, Wyll, Gale and Halsin all romanced so far and will have to fully test Minthara's romance once she's ready. Eilistraee preserve me, also have to test Jaheira.

Funny Bug? I ignored the Grove Quest. Recruited Minthara and went back to the Goblin Camp. To kill the Goblins for exp. Used Silence on Minthara. So i can take her back to Act 1. After killing Ragzlin Minthara Switches the Team. Back to Team Goblin. But i can still controll her. So i can fight myself. So i can ähm use both Teams? 🥺🫣🤭🤗

[video:youtube][/video]

For those curious about this bug;


It is possible to get rid of it without murdering Cerys, however it is not 100% guaranteed. After a lot of testing the bug seems to be tied to two side quests;

• Lift the Shadow Curse (Halsin)
• Rescue The Tieflings

During my testing Cerys would only stop joining the battle after completing Halsin's quest and then talking to the Tieflings at the prison. Other variations of events did not fix it and to make matters worse it is not a 100% guarantee fix, because under the exact same circumstances this bug would sometimes continue to persist... but when it does work it works for the remainder of the ACT. So complete Halsin's quest entirely first and then talk to them at the prison.

*As can be seen Cerys stops joining global battles if everything goes according to plan*


In the meantime Larian is aware of the issue and working on fixing it.

they haven't fixed this bug yet?? I thought they would've by now since it's how most people obtain her especially those who don't want to hurt the grove. I knocked her out at the raid in my current playthrough but I have a mod that should fix this issue if it still works in patch 7, I'm close to getting her at Moonrise so hopefully, it'll work. But still, this bug is by far the most annoying.

How badly bugged is Minthara now after Patch 7? Is it worth it to start a new run? Or would it be better to wait for a few more hotfixes? 🫣🤗

She's stable. Minor fixes here and there, plenty of old issues remaining, several new bugs introduced. Nothing character breaking, but she's still unfinished so there's no point in waiting to play with her, she'll always remain so.

Am preparing a compendium of issues (part II) that will include all her still existing and new issues to potentially help salvage what can be salvaged, but for now these are her notable Patch #7 issues;

• If she's knocked out during the raid Cerys will be globally pulled into every combat encounter in ACT II
• Her unique Dark Urge dialogue is broken
• If she is an active party member after defeating Ketheric, her and Jaheira will be cutting out dialogue audio due to their idle conversations (recruit them both immediately or send Jaheira to camp so this doesn't happen)
• She lost her reaction about the Emperor reveal
• If the player promises to protect her in ACT III, the dialogue doesn't end properly so the player is forced to be a prick to her
• She doesn't have her reactions about the abductions of Lae'zel/Gale
• If she is romanced Halsin will spam his polyamory romance dialogue since she can't talk about it

Just don't knock her out during the raid and be sure to refuse Halsin's polyamory romance.

This playthrough I left all Origin companions at camp hoping a non-Origin party will make her appear less content deprived... massive mistake. Was surprised to see Jaheira and Minsc are literally the main characters of ACT III, constantly reacting and engaging in so many events, even with certain villains and especially the whole Dark Urge storyline. Minthara as a love interest does not amount to even 10% in terms of their content and reactions, as they care and react so much about Dark Urge to the point Jaheira is like a caring auntie to the character.

This is just depressing. I was hoping she's finally be a proper companion and a romantic partner after a year, but I guess there's not much we can expect anymore, other than some bug fixes. Thanks for all the information!

Minthara is also missing a reaction after Astarion's ascension. I'm not sure if that's because it's bugged, or because they never made a reaction for her for that. Even Minsc has a reaction to Astarion doing the ascension ritual. I was expecting Minthara to say something to show her approval of him ascending, since she's vocal about it before/while it's happening, but she just says the usual "You wish to consult me?" after he does it.

Yeah... unfortunately she rolled a NAT 1 when it came to post-release development care and quality control, with over two years wasted and nothing to show for it. Which is why this is going to be my last playthrough with her... it just isn't worth the scars anymore.



'Great Guard Helm,
allow her peace in this game and beyond.

Show her care when she received none,
bless her with content she required a ton.

Adored by her players,
uncared-for by her creators,
banished forevermore,
from content she once bore.

So it is spoken and so is it done,
aluve dear one.'

Does the second Alursrin part finally work? Can anyone confirm this? 🫣
Also doe's all of her banter work now? 🤔

But after 10 runs i'm no longer really motivated to start a new run. 🥴 And i romanced her in 9 Runs 💜🥺

After Patch 5 (last December), there was an interview with Adam Smith done by IGN. Where he said Minthara's Ko recruitment makes sense and they add the "storytelling" to support it into the game. 🥴

Quote: "Also, her dialogue, when you recruit her that way as well, she's very suspicious of you because of what you did. Leaving an enemy alive is really stupid and it's not something she would do. So as soon as you recruit her, she's always suspicious of your motives. "Why would you spare me? I was your enemy, why am I still alive?" So we made sure there was storytelling around it. It wasn't just a new gameplay system. We put in the storytelling to support it as well." Adam Smith IGN Interview last December

The "Storytelling" we got: Minthara's Ko Dialog YouTube

Is that supposed to be all? 🫣This is supposed to be the storytelling for Minthara's (ko) recruitment? 🤔
No little hint from the Emperor when you enter Minthara's office in the Goblin Camp that Ko is possible?
Why is Thaniel still hanging around Minthara?
Isn't it possible to install Halsin's tent in some camps?
So players need to use some meta gaming knowledge to maybe recruit a “companion”? 😑

Why does this dialogue trigger after the Ketherick fight? Why so late? 🤔Why does she wait several in game days/weeks before asking you that? Why doesn't she ask you that right away when she comes to your camp for the first time?😒

I love being able to recruit Minthara in a good run but this storytelling for this recruitment is ridiculous.😒🙄

This, to be honest, is particularly surprising to me. Spending so many resources on secondary, fanservice characters that managed to be definitely worse than their originals in BG2, and yet abandoning their own, unique and special character like that. BG3 wouldn't have lost anything from the absence of Jaheira and Minsc (I may be subjective, but I can't deal with them after the first playthrough without using the spacebar in dialogs, so annoying are they), but on the contrary, would have gained if they had instead fully developed Minthara. Her lines, in terms of intelligence and “interestingness” for me as a player, far surpass the level of those two combined. You have to “hunt” for her lines, reload to see if she still reacts to this or that event, but the number of lines, alas, is small. How is it possible to make a game like this? Owlcat doesn't have a single unfinished companion, not in Pathfinder or Rogue Trader, no one deprived of content, even though they had significantly less money to make games than Larian. Minthara reminds me of a talented child who sits quietly in the last desk because the adults don't notice her.

Thank you for the information about the problems after patch 7. I wonder how much mods can improve the situation in the future...


Yeah. This is so that the player can feel stupid playing without spoilers, for example, the first 2 acts, and only in act 3 for the first time reading information about the game... Metagame is a must for a good (“good” not in terms of the “morality” of the game, but in terms of the player's enjoyment) playthrough. Indeed, why doesn't the Emperor give a hint, or why not prevent Minthara's murder by simply interrupting the battle with a scene in which the player, simply as part of the plot, without knowing anything in advance, would understand everything and could let her stay alive?

• Her romance banter (just like every other companion's) are poorly implemented, so they're triggering willy-nilly without any safeguards in place. Because of this Minthara now ends up acting unfaithful to her alurlssrin, and she's also missing several reactions to notable events.
• As for her alurlssrin dialogue - if you're referring to this part of it I can't personally confirm it since I'm playing as a Drow, which by default do not get this half of the dialogue ever. What I can confirm however is that she only expresses her undying love after the party passes the Bhaal gate in the Undercity.
• As for the KO dialogue, yes that's all there is to it. The dialogue itself is fine honestly, it's nice that she reacts to it. The issue is everything else surrounding her minimum-effort barely-put-together KO recruitment. Halsin gets discarded as a homeless hippie at camp, Thaniel sleeps with Minthara instead, Minthara and Halsin have ZERO content between them, etc... an utterly embarrassing implementation.
• As for why that dialogue triggers after Ketheric's death; it's because she's being pragmatic until that point, as it's just a temporary alliance to her born out of necessity so she doesn't care much about connecting with anyone. But, just like the party, she did not expect the events to extend further than Moonrise, so she decides to connect properly since she'll be together with them for a while.

Also since the interview was mentioned;


LITERALLY what she needed. It's even extensively covered in my compendium. Orin and Minthara do not acknowledge each other ONCE in the entire game, because of which she carries absolutely no weight in the story and thus is just reduced to being a sidekick without content that may as well just be a camp follower. Having her in the party does not impact the story in any way, shape or form.

And then compare that to Jaheira and Minsc who carry tremendous story weight in ACT III, as they're literally the main characters of the ACT. Apart from Jaheira's extensive interactions, conversations and her entire personal quest, even Minsc as a lategame cameo has so many fully developed unique conversations and interactions tailored specifically to him. Even in Rivington too, with several background NPCs who are not involved in any quests. I fell in love with them in an instant, they're PHENOMENAL!

• Jaheira and Minsc have full blown conversations with Nine-Fingers, Sarevok, Viconia, Bhaal's Temple, Dark Urge.
• Jaheira and Minsc also have so many unique interactions with background NPCs, not to mention constant reactions to what's happening (especially Minsc).
• The encounter with Sarevok drastically changes if Jaheira and Minsc are present
• The encounter with Viconia is meaningfully enriched if Jaheira and Minsc are present
• The path to Bhaal's Temple is meaningfully enriched if Jaheira and Minsc are present, as they have unique dialogue about it
• The encounter with Orin is drastically enriched if Jaheira and Minsc are present, as they're the only companions with actual reactions to Dark Urge's fate
• The encounter with Orin drastically changes if Dark Urge accepts Bhaal with Jaheira and Minsc in the party

Minthara and Orin however... not a single reaction nor exchange between the two. Just nothing.

Minthara is simply one of those 10$ character DLCs from other games, which get implemented a year later just for a quick profit and then barely get to interact with the original cast members. They just exist in their own tiny little content bubble and then they're mute for the rest of the game because they have no lines recorded with other cast members. She's more of a cameo than even Minsc is supposed to be.


BONUS QUIZ

Even if Larian had unlimited resources it wouldn't have made a difference. Minthara is not in this state because they spent more effort on other companions, the truth is simply (as much as I hate saying it) they just don't care about anything outside the scope of their intended good path. This was their mindset even during Early Access and is reflected throughout the entire development, which is why this isn't just an issue with Minthara either, as Sarevok and Viconia equally got shafted as characters that weren't even their own. Same story with Gortash, Orin, Ketheric, Nere, Marcus and the entire evil path. It's also the reason why they discarded Minthara (and Astarion) like utter trash in these extended evil endings too, which were supposed to enrich their characters further and fully include them... which they forced so hard it broke both their own lore and player's roleplay by doing so (I don't think I'll ever recover from that).

So as someone who never played BG1/BG2; I equally despise what was done to Sarevok and Viconia as well, because the story consistently kept bringing up these characters only to end up being braindead shallow villains - one with Unholy Daddy issues, the other with Unholy Mommy issues. A sad and pathetic desecration of established characters just to have 'notable' villains for their heroes to slay, when literally anyone could've been in their place and Orin and Gortash could've been made more prominent in ACT III, who are awfully lacking in presence.

Jaheira and Minsc on the other hand - I absolutely adore with all my heart. Jaheira's commanding presence followed by her snarky 'hello' captivated me from the moment she stepped into view because when a character is properly established and has their place cemented within the story, one can just sit back and admire its growth as the story evolves. Jaheira is such a well and beautifully written character I LOVE interacting with so much, because (just like Minthara) she wasn't written to 'appease the players' like the Origin companions, but to be an interesting character with a uniquely defined personality that enjoys butting heads against the player.

I love that she is flawed and fallible, snarky yet straight-as-an-arrow with her honesty. Someone that can both lecture and criticize, yet also crack jokes and even take jokes; like when I called her ancient and she burst-out laughing, then approvingly called me a bastard for saying it like it is. I LOVE that sort of dynamic because it makes characters so much more natural and forms an actual camaraderie that eventually evolves into a beautiful friendship, like two best friends messing with one another. Same with Minsc and Boo, freaking love Minsc! Minsc is so positively... Minsc! He is the Minsciest companion of them all, the biggest Minsc-reant! I cannot imagine ACT III without him ever again.

So I am extremely grateful Jaheira and Minsc exist, because unlike the Origin companions they weren't written to 'appease the player' and bombard me with exhausting feelings and intimacy, but to be interesting characters - which makes them feel more real, thus interacting with them much more enjoyable.