Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Better chances to hit?

DO martial type characters have a better chance of hitting their target than non-marshal characters? I remember in D&D 3.5 fighter types had a major advantage (with levels) over non fighter types to hit the enemy with a weapon. In BG3 I see nothing saying anyone/class has any advantage over anyone else to hit the enemy as long as they are proficient with the weapon used. Only your stats modifier is a factor. Unless I'm totally missing something? Martial classes should have a better chance but there's nothing in game that says they do. Am I wrong? I have a Sorcerer using a +3 weapon she is proficient with and has a 23 strength (gauntlets) and she misses the enemy what seems like over 50% of the time if she uses her weapon.

A martial class on its own does not increase chances, only the features/abilities of the class do.

• For example Fighters/Rangers both have Fighting Style (Archery) which increases ranged accuracy by 10%.
• Fighters (Battle Masters) have Feinting/Precision Attack(s) to increase accuracy.
• Bard and Paladin for example do not have any features that increase accuracy.

So a class on its own doesn't, but its features do (if obtained).

Martial classes used to in earlier editions. Classes used to get a different Base Attack Bonus progression in a similar fashion to how casters get their Spell Caster Levels differently (I.e. 1/3rd progression for classes like EK and AT, 1/2 progression for Ranger and Paladin, full progression for Bard, Wizard, Sorcerer etc)

This used to be 1 BAB per level for the likes of Fighter, Barbarian, Paladin, Ranger

While only 0.75 BAB per level for the likes of Rogue, Cleric, Bard, Artificer etc.

With Wizard and Sorcerer having the puny 0.5 BAB per level scaling.

BAB would not only be a modifier to attack rolls, but would also determine attack speed (How many attacks per action you take)

However, this is no longer the case in recent editions.

Now the only difference between a Martial and a Caster is getting extra attacks per standard action (Level 5 for most classes. Level 6 for martial Bards. Druids (Wildshape only) and Fighters get a second extra attack on levels 10 and 11 respectively)

As such, there should not be any difference between a Fighter and Sorcerer in terms of accuracy when using the same weapon (With the same proficiency) and the same stats (And other modifying effects)

In regards to missing a lot... Make sure the weapon you're using utilizes the stat you've got. All ranged weapons use Dex. Some special weapons will use your character's spellcasting stat.

This was always a really bad design idea in the first place, and D&D5 thankfully doesnt work that way anymore.


For example in Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, which was not a D&D3 game but a d20 game, aka a very simplified D&D3 that doesnt cost licensing, it was completely pointless to invest in defense. No matter how hard you tried to maximize your armor class, the opponents would always hit you anyway, because of the riddiculously high attack bonuses they would get from their warrior class.

BG2 was the same. Armor class ? On high levels, you would have one mage that would cast Improved Haste on the tank, a Priest that would casts Regeneration on the tank, and then the tank would attack. Multiply by two and that was the party configuration one would have in BG2, especially in the addon ToB - two mages, two priests, two warriors. Armor class was meaningless, the opponents easily penetrated the best armor class possible.


In D&D5 investing in defense is really worthwhile now. A single armor class more will make a substantial difference in the longterm.

The bonus from proficiency starts at two and gets better only every fourth level after the first level.


Meanwhile yes you have to now actually think about how to improve your attacks. And there are now countless ways to do so, too.






Err ... out of the top of my head Bards have for example Faerie Fire to improve their attack chances (and reveal invisible opponents).

Paladin has Bless to improve their attack chances.

There are a bazillion ways to improve attack chances in D&D5. Even more so in BG3 where Larian added a lot of their own sauce.

That is completely untrue. Maximizing defence made most attacks miss in KotoR and KotoR 2. As I noticed when I recently replayed them and went full defence (While playing on the hardest difficulty). All my non-full defence characters simply fell instantly while my full defence PC just soloed the entire game without even using a healthpack.

You will get hit some of the time, sure. Blame Nat 20's for that nonsense. But the vast majority of attacks can be avoided.

The game simply offered enough ways to gain defence even with the high scaling of Warrior class BAB (By the end of my runs, I was rocking somewhere in the region of 60-70AC while also dealing more than enough damage to turn anyone into puree because maxed Flurry + maxed Haste for a million attacks is stupid)


Really, the main thing that such a design fell flat, was it made multiclassing super awkward. Since trying to hit the BAB thresholds for extra attacks was more complicated than simply "I get X level in this class, I get the bonus attack" with of course the reduction in overall attacks as a result (Extra Attacks are mutually exclusive compared to BAB where it simply continued to stack for as long as you could keep meeting BAB thresholds).

Without BAB to worry about it's much easier to put together a build without starting off literally every build with "First, I put 20 levels in Fighter..." and working backwards from there...

The problem with a defense build in Kotor 1 is that you will cruise through the whole game, and then hit a brick wall with Darth Malak, who has a much higher attack bonus than any of his minions. I found lightning spam to be the easiest approach to him and pretty much everything else.

I feel we're getting somewhat off topic here ...

Fine, back on topic P

A martial character and a magic character with identical attack stats will have the same chance to hit with a melee attack. However, a martial with more than 5 (ish) levels will be able to attack twice with the attack action, so will in general do twice the damage with melee/bow attacks. Casters often have better things to do with their action anyway.

The problem with earlier versions of D&D is simple math: a level 20 warrior will get a whooping +20 to their attack. And you dont have any ability to gain +20 to your armor class; not even close. Thus warriors will effectively ignore your armor class and hit you all the time.

The reason I mentioned BG2 and KotOR is that I have played both games to the death and know them very well. The problem also appears in all other D&D games I've played in the past, provided they would progress to higher levels.

In D&D5 you can now only gain +2 at level 1 to your attack, in BG3 culminating to +4 at level 9, and in the original system to +6 at level 17. So your total gain will only be +4.

The real progression is of course different, because thanks to other mechanisms you can gain attack bonus from other sources - feats, gear, and in BG3 especially strength elixiers. And in BG3 specifically the broken feat Tavern Brawler completely breaks the logic into pieces. But opponents never use such broken mechanics.



The other reason why D&D5 is to my mind a huge improvement over previous versions is that many more spells than traditionally use attack rolls, even for spells. Thats why spellcasters have to focus on getting higher attacks, too, though I dont know of any feat that would help and theres no Tavern Brawler for them, theres only items.



BG3 has a multitude of ways how to get better attack on opponents. You can blind them, you can make them fall prone, you can stun them, etc.

And in this case, spellcasters will also benefit from these conditions for their spell attacks.



The thread also already mentioned that there is extra attack for many classes, even two pure spellcaster classes - Warlock and, if they dont pick the subclass Lore, Bards. Additionally one can use dualweapons and many classes can even get the same damage bonus from strength or dexterity on the offhand as in the main hand: https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Fighting_style (namely "Two-Weapon Fighting").

This is an advantage that no spellcaster can have. So much so that it is a simple trick to as a rule give spellcasters two Hand Crossbows for a ranged weapon just so they can always use their bonus action for an offhand attack with their second crossbow. This is even true if they have no proficiency for Hand Crossbow.

It should also be mentioned that in order to even get the proficiency bonus for weapon attacks, you need actual proficiency in the weapon. Thats what keeps many classes back. Also a Bard for example has no reason to actually use anything but Finesse weapons, because nothing in their class suggests that they should aim for high strength.



I love D&D3 for many reasons and dont think that D&D5 is any perfect, but overall D&D5 is the more elegant design that, despite being more simple, makes playing the game more varied and interesting.



By the way if you want great attacks from level 1 on on a warrior, simply pick Barbarian. Their Reckless Attack allows to gain advantage on attack rolls right out of the box. BG3 even prompts you if you want to use Reckless Attack if your attack has failed. And rage always gives resistance to physical damage as well, too, so even if opponents hit you they hit you only for half their usual damage.

In BG3 specifically thanks to the Tavern Brawler feat there is a way to gain bonus to attack as it was in earlier versions of D&D: play as Open Hand Monk, pick the Tavern Brawler feat, and get your hands on a Cloud Giant Elixier. Your strength bonus will be +8 with the elixier and with unarmed attacks, which are the default for Open Hand Monk, as well as improvised weapons and thrown weapons your attack bonus will be +16; same for the damage bonus, effectively ignoring all armor opponents realistically have.



P.s.: Correction: You get Reckless Attack as Barbarian 2, not on first level.

Which is not a flaw in the system of having Warriors scale better than other martials (Who would get +15 attack from BAB or Sorc/Wizard who'd get +10 attack from BAB) but simply a flaw in scaling defence in a similar fashion.


I don't think it appears in all other D&D games... Most D&D games, like with KotoR, you could get ridiculously high AC's too. 50+ AC is not unheard of in many d20 based games. Which is not by any means, negated by a mere +20 from a Warrior BAB (Even if you include things like +5 weapons and 20 STR that's still only +30 attack leaving you with 20AC for a regular d20 min roll of 5% chance to hit with a nat 20)


No, opponents just get randomly boosted attack rolls when playing on higher difficulties (Or if they're bosses)

While simultaneously, you have also very few ways to boost AC to compensate. Like, all you can really do for AC is wear a shield, some medium armour (That bypasses the Dex bonus cap) and stack Dex out the wazoo.

On Honour Mode its impossible to get capped AC to minimize later game bosses hit rates to the minimum 5%.

It's never down to the system of how attack scales, but how both attack and defence scale.


Ehh... Spell casters still just stack spell DC like always, which converts into attack roll bonuses for attack roll spells.

The only new thing in 5e is that Cantrips are actually worth using because not only are they a relevant attack, but they also scale their hit die with levels. Meaning casters don't have to run around with a crossbow to use when they're out of spell slots (Which given that crossbows didn't used to scale off any stats, meant that things like BAB was even more relevant to actually hit with the things)


Which is literally no different to prior D&D editions. All these effects existed before 5e and most casters were literally based around applying them (They were called "Save or Suck" spells for a reason. Enemies had to pass a save check and if they failed they became completely debilitated or were outright instantly killed)

The only difference is with prone. Where before ranged attacks got a penalty from trying to hit a prone target (Which included spells with attack rolls)... But before you had Coup de Grace so leaving an enemy helpless could allow you to insta-kill them with a martial.


Sorcerers literally get Quicked Spell metamagic to allow them to cast spells using Bonus Actions.