Of course the ritual matters to Astarion's story - he gains complete independence, a beating heart, power and freedom.
It's a strange lack of embrace and even stranger to draw any conclusions about the path and ‘what kind of attitude the player should form towards Astarion on the path of evil’ from that. If think that way it only speaks to Larian's lacklustre plot, inept rpg and double standards. Um, no. if I can hug Sharr Shedowhart, I should be able to do it with Astarion.
UA has no kiss, should I now conclude that he is in a heavy stage of trauma treatment when 6 months ago he was kissing Tav - could be of course, but more likely it just wasn't added.
No animation means no animation. Tav tells AA that ‘no one dares touch us, my love’, zero reason not to add a hug. Well, Tav kisses him perfectly in the evil new ending.
Totally agree. Trying to impose on the player how they should feel about a character is probably the worst possible way to ruin a story with bad writing. But I think the hugging and kissing is just fanservice, and like some other aspects of the game are still unfinished, so too are some of the romance lines. Many other games don't have any visualized hugs and kisses in romance at all and it has no effect on the story. The fact that Larian made such fanservice is great, I remember my delight about it, it felt like some kind of magic when I was able to kiss Astarion for the first time after the Act 2 confession (back then there were still pretty simple and modest kisses, before patch 5). In patch 5, I also had great delight after replacing the former kisses with their improved version. But unfortunately, it wasn't possible to make this fanservice perfect. I think it's unfair to bypass any particular group of fans when it comes to fanservice. After all, if there were no hugs and kisses with the companions in the epilogue at all, there probably wouldn't be any questions about it either. But if you're doing it for one, do it for all. After all, the developers were not lazy to do a friendly hugs, which, in my opinion, just could be postponed and first properly finish the romance for all companions.
Yeah, the kiss in the new evil ending is perfect. Why not just duplicate it in both endings? After all, the player's motivation to get through the evil ending should be according to their roleplay, not “I'm going to go kill everyone, or else my Astarion won't kiss”. The story should exist for the sake of the story, and fanservice to please the players for nothing.
Originally Posted by BlueScaliesxx98
Exactly. So leave it as it is. You chose this path, why do you want everything UA has when you deliberately choose AA? When I choose either one or the other, I do so for the reason to play with that version of Astarion, not to have the other‘s interactions. The developers and writers did this on purpose so just respect their decision. When they reworked the AA kisses, this was already enough resources spent on a game that is not a dating sim nor has Astarion as the main character, just to please the minority of players who wanted it. Sharran Shadowheart has a completely different act 3 scene than selunite Shadowheart, yet no fan is complaining about wanting that scene for selunite shad, because *they are different* and must be treated as such. Otherwise there is no reason to have different versions of the characters in the first place and their companions quests and the choices become unnecessary.
I choose Astarion and Astarion chooses Ascension, I want to play realistically and immersively, not divide a living and unique personality into some “versions”. Just because Astarion chooses Ascension in no way means that Astarion chooses to refuse my hugs and kisses. If he wanted that, he would have ended the relationship by getting Ascension, rather than wanting an eternal bond and “Aeterna Amantes. Lovers forever” while wishing that his ‘eternal beloved’ wouldn't touch him ‘until the world falls down’. As for the authors, Stephen Rooney would hardly be opposed to displays of love for “his boy” on the part of the player, nor would he be opposed to the player receiving joy, “ evil and fun” while in a romantic relationship with Astarion. Those authors currently working in Larian - I don't think they wish the romance in the game to be bad in any way either. Lawrence Schick, if I'm not mistaken, is now the Principal Narrative Designer and under his leadership, great improvements have already been made to Astarion's romance - the player characters in the kissing scenes have had their facial expressions fixed, beautiful smiles made. About the waste of resources - this is certainly understandable, but we should also not forget that Larian themselves decided to spend resources on the kisses of patch 6, they could perfectly well have stopped in this fanservice on patch 5, the first time they did badly, and then they fixed it. Fixing mistakes is a valid and worthwhile thing to do, but it's something studios should do. BG3 can well be called an RPG with elements (and not small elements) of a dating simulator, the game contains a lot of sex scenes, including those that have no special story value, but exist just to entertain players - the Emperor, Mizora, brothel, love triangles, the way the character of Halsin was changed as a result (compared to EA, and yes, not all players were “entertained” by it, but it is also part of the “dating simulator”). Everywhere is a dating simulator, only Astarion can't be touched. Doesn't make a lot of sense.
And I'm curious, it turns out for you, the companion quests and choices matter solely for the sake of different versions of romance? And how is that not a “dating simulator”? So not letting Astarion Ascend is necessary for him to act like a “good boy” and satisfy the player's wishes regarding their ideas of proper romantic behavior? What about the 7000 lives, the morality, the “diabolical ritual”, the “evil and violence”? Which is important - this or calling Tav a “pet”? An evil couple remains “evil” no matter how much they adore each other. And they may more than adore each other. I personally feel that “good” choices are made for the sake of “goodness” rather than appropriate romantic behavior.
Originally Posted by BlueScaliesxx98
I beg you, stop trying to rework and rewrite the character you claim to love. You choose this path for a reason, so play with it as it is. Just like all other players play with the choices they make in Astarion and other romances. I’d much rather not go to Avernus, but if my Tav romances Karlach, she is happy to go. This is the consequence of the choices I made, Tav has to go to hell and leave all their friends behind.
The choice to go to Avernus with Karlach is a plot choice, plus Tav-friend can also go to Avernus with Karlach, it's not a matter of romantic fanservice. And it's completely realistic - Karlach needs to return to Avernus or she'll die, and her lover needs to help her and follow her. Astarion clearly doesn't need to not be hugged, on the contrary, he needs love. And after the Ascension, he needs it. This is not a consequence of the choices I made, simply because it is not realistic.
Originally Posted by Anska
It could also be - if you keep his select line in mind and the way the ascended kiss animations end - that he simply does not want to be touched. Just as a thought.
All his lines, all his possessive impulses, his very desire for 'Mine forever', 'don't go far away', even the looks, the way the Ascended Astarion looks at Tav, don't add up to this. 'Look at us. We share a palace, share power, live lives eternal in each other's arms. What more could anyone want?' That someone in the writers wanted the player not to touch Astarion is believable, and in trying to create that feeling too. I understand what you're saying, of course, it was that feeling of rejection, and that was what hurt me after patch 6, not the whole “you can't part with him”, “he's controlling” and so on. But that doesn't sound like Astarion himself at all.
Originally Posted by jinetemoranco
Quote
Lae'zel: Astarion, I note you and your lover struggle to keep your hands off one another. Lae'zel: It makes you less watchful. We're panting after battle, and already your maws are glued. Astarion: We're having fun. I would say 'try it, it won't kill you', but in your case I'm not sure.
The language here is indeed colorful to say the least but it sounds like he's that kind of person that is annoyingly gratuitous about PDA.
Haha, that's a charming line, thank you! It's really in the style of Astarion!
Originally Posted by Mordred92
Of course, a hug would be the icing on the cake to crown the moment... Even better would be a kiss! Otherwise I thought: what would you say about a hand kiss? The TAV that takes Astarion's hand and kisses it as a sign of affection and devotion? A sort of reference at the night which Astarion transforms the TAV.
Yes, the hand kiss is beautiful! I'd love to support it! <3
