Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Astarion romance improvements

Another thing I was thinking about that might be nice to see: AA commenting on the TAV when they bite him?
At the moment, if I'm not mistaken, when the TAV bites AA, he has the same quotes that he says if you hit him. Would it be nice if AA had some special phrases if the TAV bites him? After all, he himself tells to the TAV that they can drink his blood.

Yeah, about the “talk the companions into taking the squid” thing, I agree, another prime example of the somewhat annoying repetitive line choices for Tav in dialogs. I'd like to get rid of those too. It's good that the dialog with Astarion doesn't have that line hanging around after he says no. I realize that someone might change their mind during the game and want to shove squid at someone after all, but that could have been solved perfectly with a command like “return hidden lines” in the settings menu. It's strange that “I will protect you” keeps hanging because, unlike the squid's sentence, this extra line gives only one response from Astarion and has no effect on anything else, while in many other dialogs you can easily skip the extra line by selecting the response that ends the dialog, and there is no way to select this missed extra line except by reloading. Being able to hide repetitive lines that are unnecessary for the player would be a good improvement for more than just romance.


“‘I do rather like that, you know.’” - says Astarion after the kiss (and his voice and facial expression at that) - a very touching line. I think it's much more in line with their relationship with the player character. Given that Astarion only needs one close person he can trust (AA directly talks about this in his response to Karlach), it makes sense that the relationship to that person's touch would also be different than all the others. During kissing, AA acts according to the rules of behavior of the dominant in D/s, the sabmissive does not take the initiative and does not touch their dominant partner on their own. The fact that Astarion himself keeps the player character at a distance is completely illogical, it's completely contrary to the possessive character as such. I think most agree that Astarion is possessive, and after Ascension he starts to express that quite vividly and blatantly. Possessive and “keep at a distance” are opposite things and can very rarely be combined in one person. “Don't go far away”, 'I'm always watching', 'You're mine', three lines about hugging, and 'Don't you dare touch me' - these are some two opposite poles. On the contrary, for the possessive character, much more appropriate would be the “grab and pull” style actions, a tight hug (it can be such a strong and firm hug that someone may not like and will seem “suffocating”), but not a pull away or push away. The possessor and the person who adores the possessor will cling to each other and be happy, the possessor + the character who doesn't want that kind of closeness, may just “want freedom”, will pull away, and get exactly a “toxic romance” if the possessor doesn't want to let go.

I think the whole story of LI keeping the player at a distance is not a good thing in itself, it looks like the game is trying to offend, insult or alienate some category of players, I don't know on what grounds (personality, I guess, since the criterion for rejection is the choice of a particular LI,) while all the other players are doing great in their romance. It's a bad practice. If we're talking about some particularly painful, tragic romance, I would have believed the story if it had been different from the beginning. If it wasn't Astarion seducing Tav by proposing conversion, but instead Tav pushing him around, wanting to be “together forever” on the grounds that they “gave him everything”. If Astarion was really a manipulator and acted like a sweet sunshine before the Ascension, got what he wanted, but did not leave his exploited partner, although he wanted to, but gave in to their pressure, was unable to refuse, but out of malice made Tav a spawn and himself a master, then the variant with a tragic romance with the loving Tav and rejecting cold Astarion would be realistic. Only “You're mine” then would no longer be his line, and to the request for freedom he would have replied, “Fine! Go! I hope you get fried in the sun...” But Astarion is not like that at all. And why, on the one hand, does he keep the person who genuinely loves him at a distance, and on the other hand, binds them, won't let go, and won't let the person who doesn't love him leave? What kind of schizophrenia is this with the character? In the end, those who want to play the one who isn't being set free can simply not choose to hug or kiss him with a classic loving kiss, just as you don't choose the “I will protect you” line and I don't choose “Let's break up”. All players have replicas and options in their variant interactions that they never choose.

Thoughts on Astarion's “tactility” (unsubstantiated, personal, therefore under spoiler and this can be skipped):



Neil on Astarion: “About Astarion, um, about him as a character, or about the experience of the character, or, sure, I just love the fact that his incessant drive and desire to be utterly and freely unshackled by other people's opinions of it.” And specifically about Ascended Astarion: “He doesn't need to pretend, he doesn't need to do too much. It's all about the status and that kind of stuff.” Why would Astarion even care about all this publicity? These companions he doesn't even want to talk to? For the sake of this, for the sake of maintaining some kind of “image” in front of strangers, Astarion will want to hurt, reject and “not let things go too far” with the only person close to him with whom he has “Aeterna Amantes”. We can see the pain and anger Astarion feels when Tav rejects him, he desperately tries to hold on to Tav who doesn't love him, and clings to them. In doing so, he has to act in a similar way and reject a character who loves him and is loyal to him, making them feel the pain of rejection when he himself understands exactly what it is. There are enough lines for fighting and “toxic romance” in the game, moreover, there are plenty of them, for the kind of story you like, the game has already done everything it can do. It's worth balancing that out and giving content for our story. You can also ignore all those features you don't want, like other players ignore replicas for arguing.


I learned about this game, as well as a few others, while researching the topic:

*** WARNING: sensitive content (may contain a discussion of violence, abuse, SA related to a BG3 scene) this content might not be suitable for all audiences. Trigger warning***

Due to the kind of scenes they made for us in the game in patch 6. I needed to find out while researching the topic of game ratings (ESRB), what such scenes look like, what the descriptor means

*** WARNING: sensitive content (may contain a discussion of violence, abuse, SA related to a BG3 scene) this content might not be suitable for all audiences. Trigger warning***

At least as far as the European video game segment is concerned (I can give other examples), Patch 6's facial expression scenes are entirely consistent with this descriptor. It gives me no joy to study such material. But I find the appearance of such content (also really bullying and offensive to players) in mainstream games that position themselves as “fun” classic RPGs far more disturbing than having a game like 'Rape Day' somewhere out there in its niche, to its audience. 'Rape Day' didn't disturb me or anyone else who was traumatized by patch 6 in any way, because we don't buy games like that, the author of that game doesn't see people like me as his audience, doesn't attract people with a pretty picture of a super-RPG, doesn't let me fall in love with his character to then suddenly shove a knife of his content under my rib. But Larian just got it wrong with the D/s scenes, they didn't want anything like that either, it happens.


D/s is what is currently shown in the game. The video sequence we see in the kissing scenes is a D/s video sequence. There's a concept of video sequence - it's what the “picture on the screen” by itself demonstrates, without regard to any perception, roleplay, backstory, or anything else. My personal roleplay with Astarion is different, the way I frame my character's thinking and perception is by tweaking myself to D/s content so that it works. There has to be some explanation, if there is no external logical explanation, but an internal explanation works, that's how you can play too. In reality BDSM requires strict precautions, watching BDSM content on screen requires no special precautions other than the age of the viewer/player. Especially since there is no BDSM in full in the kissing scenes, there is only the D/s (dominance/submission) element, the S/m (sadism/masochism) element is absent, as Astarion does not cause Tav physical pain, but only commands. Abdirak, on the other hand, is already S/m. Larian portrays D/s scenes in AA kissing, and this content now looks like that. And it's not full on BDSM, just D/s. In the game in general the rails with the kneeling, and the lines for Tav after Ascension, the line for those who don't think they're “degrading themselves by staying with him” hasn't been done, and is unlikely to be done, and to expect an explicit discussion of BDSM, well... I wouldn't. The video content is what is shown in the video, and the fact that the player agrees to play means that the player agrees to play the D/s scenes and watch that content in their game. After all, it's not like anyone is forcing the player to repeat it in real life, it's a game, and for a game implied consent is enough, just like if you go to a video site, no one is going to discuss stop words and boundaries with you, you'll see a list of videos that you can either watch or not watch. I understand that you may not like it, though I don't see how the same actions, only with scary faces, can be enjoyed while doing so, but surely everyone has their own roleplay. Why you're against adding an option for classic kissing, which would definitely 100% solve the problem with player consent for D/s because D/s would no longer be mandatory for romance, I don't understand either.


And UA, poor guy, tolerates all this then, it turns out? AA is free to express his “unwillingness”, but UA is dependent and has to endure it. If after the Ascension Astarion demonstrates his unwillingness to touch, what is it like for him in case of refusal from the ritual, when he can't even demonstrate it? (Except for one push in the graveyard). The UA romance, then, is about forcing LI to make physical contact, the player just takes advantage of his vulnerability and kisses him as they want, and Astarion tolerates it, since he, poor guy, is able to declare it somehow only after the ritual.


I join you. The double standard is spot on, and the patch 5 kiss was great. And perfectly matched AA's character and my relationship with him. Astarion certainly likes to dominate, but he doesn't have to “ for happiness” dominate right like that, without allowing touching at all.

And I think there should definitely be an option in the game for happy playthroughs with your LI, rather than tearing the character down into some separate romantic paths. As for: “Let him starve and burn, then we'll let you kiss him differently for it and hug him in the epilogue,” or what? Or “Yeah, you kill 7000 spawns, you only want your Astarion to feel good, selfish, then you won't touch him!”.

And about wasting resources, there is a good and economical idea - cooperation with modders. When some things already made by modders, developers add then to the official game. Some other games used this practice.

It seems to me that such a practice could greatly enrich the Larian game, and especially the romance in it. Without having to spend any significant amount of resources.

With all due respect. Please stop with these walls. You don’t have to respond to messages hours and days old when everyone else already moved on. More than that, please stop spreading misinformation to support your own argument while completely disregarding others instead of even trying to see the other side. This is not a discussion, it’s a monologue on your part, it doesn’t add anything to the discussion and it has already been pointed out plenty.

I would also like more dialogue responses to that question. The same amount would be ideal and the most fair. But if Larian put in very sweet and satisfying lines, then I can accept fewer.


Agreed. I'd also like him to have a reaction to seeing a statue of himself too.


It's your opinion that D/s is shown in the game, not fact. I already showed how the AA romance does not follow any required BDSM elements. Also, it is wrong to imply that safety precautions are less important in D/s. Safety precautions are ALWAYS needed in BDSM, and implied consent is not enough. Yes, even if it's "only" D/s. Look up "dom drop" and "sub drop" if you don't believe me.

Please, it's obvious you are uneducated on BDSM every time you post about it. It's dangerous to keep spreading misinformation about something you don't know much about. BDSM can injure people or worse, especially when practiced without proper safety precautions. Most accidents occur when people are uneducated and don't take the time to research and be safe. This is a serious matter. People should not be spreading misinformation on what BDSM looks like and what BDSM safety looks like.

And I'm against the classic kisses because I don't think it fits AA's character. I already explained this.

Thread locked due to violations of forum rules, despite warning from Salo when she locked another Astarion thread here.

I would strongly suggest that people avoid discussion of both sensitive topics and real life sexual preferences that are obviously going to touch on personal and private aspects of people’s lives that they’re not comfortable being repeatedly forced to encounter on what is meant to be a fun place to chat about a video game.

If you know you’ve brought this up before, please stop and think very, very hard about whether you need to do so again, or whether the right and considerate thing to do for other forum members is to keep discussions lighter and less fraught.

I can see some forum members have been trying hard to have civil and constructive debates, and I’m sorry that others have made that impossible. Hopefully our new, stricter policy will help those folk come to a better understanding of the forum rules, and we’ll then be able to have open, friendly, focused discussions where different opinions are treated with respect. I am not currently archiving this thread, as we have sad we might do under new rules, as it would be a pity to lose the feedback here that was given by forum members who aren’t responsible for the degeneration of the discussion.