Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Wrong number of spell slots?

I made a level 2 paladin and received 2 level 1 spell slots. Ok cool. I then multi-classed to a 4th level Eldritch Knight. I gained 4 levels in EK but I only received 1 additional level 1 spell slot? I should have 3 level 1 spell slots for being a level 4 EK alone. I "lost" my 2 level 1 spell slots for 2nd level paladin? Why do spell slots not "stack" like they should? I should have 5 level 1 spell slots right now. I have half that. Yes I know Paladin and EK are both "half" casters. That doesn't mean I should lose spell slots for multi-classing. Or does it and I'm just ignorant? I'm not very familiar with 5th edition D&D but I know in previous version this didn't happen. You keep what you earn for every level/every class regardless of multi-classing or not.

EK is a "one third caster", that drags down your ESL (Effective Spellcaster Level).
This is explained here:
https://bg3.wiki/wiki/Spells#One-third_casters

Hence (the way I understand things) a Paladin 2/Eldritch Knight 2 has an ESL of 2 - 1 from Paladin (0,5x2=1) and 1 from EK (0,33x2 = 0,66 rounded up to 1).
The EK will not generate anything extra until 6th class lvl, the Paladin - until 4th.
Only at character level 6 - Paladin 4/Eldritch Knight 2 - ESL would be 3.

If you wish to have many Spell Slots for Smites, then multiclassing into Bard is recommended, as these are Full Casters. And 2 sub-classes get a 2nd Attack at 6th lvl.

Couple of things to note:

- Spell slots in 5e are capped at 4 for 1st level (3 for levels 2-5). So you will never with any class set up have 5 level 1 spell slots (Besides utilizing Warlock's unique spell slots)

- EK is one third caster not one half, so gets spell levels every 3rd level not every 2nd level.

Spell slots are not lost for multiclassing. You get what you earn. It's just that there are 3 types of casters;

- Full casters, whom get 1 Effective Spellcaster Level per 1 class level.
- Half casters whom get 0.5 Effective Spellcaster Level per 1 class level.
- Third Casters whom get 0.33 Effective Spellcaster Level per 1 class level.

Obtaining new spell slots only occurs when you gain a new Effective Spellcaster Level and partial ESL is ALWAYS rounded down (Per spell caster type - I.e. Having 1 level of Paladin for 0.5 ESL and 2 levels of EK for 0.66 ESL will actually both be rounded down to 0 each. While you can mix between caster types such as 1 Paladin + 1 Ranger or 2 EK and 1 AT)

However, it seems in your case that it's merely a instance of not realizing EK is only 1/3 caster instead of 1/2. (Hint: Fighter and Rogue get their subclass at 3rd level because that is when they receive their first ESL when picking EK/AT)

I still fail to see why spell slots are "lost" for multi-classing. level 2 paladin gets 2 level 1 spell slots. level 4 EK gets 3 level 1 spell slots. so I AM in fact "losing" 2 level 1 spell slots. This is garbage. I'm not getting what I earn here. I'm getting ripped off.

You are not reading the rules or listening to explanations, so you are getting confused. You are getting exactly what you earned from the time you put into understanding.

No i understand and am listening to what your telling me. my point is that a 2nd level paladin gets 2 first level spell slots. if you take a DIFFERENT character and make them a 4th level EK they get 3 first level spell slots. putting them together in 1 character is "breaking" their spell slots apart. I dont care if they are 1/2 or 1/3 caster, that means they gain spells slower. it shouldnt mean they LOSE them.

Either you've modded or your missing something.

4th level EK would have 2 first level spell slots because they are ESL 1.

An EK will not receive 3 first level spell slots until level 6 when they reach ESL 2.

Unless that was a typo and your concern is that ESL 1 provides 2 spell slots, while other ESL's only provide 1 (Within a spell level). Making it seem like you "Lose" a level 1 spell slot because combining 2 classes that would normally get 2 level 1 spell slots when they reach ESL 1 will net result in only 3 first level spell slots instead of 4. While the reality is that you're not "Losing" anything, you're simply gaining ESL at the same rate, just that there's a special bonus upon reaching a new spell level where you get 2 slots instead of 1 (For spell levels 1, 2 and 3 only)

Which is simply the way that 5e handles spell slots. All classes (Besides Warlock) combine into a singular ESL, which determines a singlular pool of spell slots. This drastically reduces the overall number of spell slots one can obtain compared to prior editions - Especially when you factor in multiclassing. But the upside is that this system provides access to higher level spell slots for lower level classes, allowing you to take a few spells from a multiclass and upscale them to your highest spell slots.

Read the ESL explanation

If you simply added the spell slots of the two classes you would end up poorer. ESL 3 grants 4 level 1 slots and 2 level 2 slots. Simply adding the slots from lvl 2 paladin and lvl 4 EK gives you 5 level 1 slots and no level 2 slots.

You are complaining about having only 4 lvl 1 slots without acknowledging the level 2 slots that you would not have access to under your scheme.

The Larian/DnD 5e scheme is unambiguously better than your proposal.

i dont currently have any level 2 spell slots what are you talking about? I get those later. If I go high enough level in EK. And I currently should have 5 level 1 spell slots not 3. You're saying 4. how is 4 better than 5? Where did you learn math? lol

No you shouldn't.

All classes contribute to the SAME singular ESL which determines spell slots.

At ESL 1 you will have 2 first level spell slots
At ESL 2 you will have 3 first level spell slots
At ESL 3 you will have 4 first level and 2 second level spell slots
At ESL 4 you will have 4 first level and 3 second level spell slots
At ESL 5 you will have 4 first level, 3 second level and 2 third level spell slots
At ESL 6 you will have 4 first level, 3 second level and 3 third level spell slots
At ESL 7 you will have 4 first level, 3 second level, 3 third level and 1 fourth level spell slots
At ESL 8 you will have 4 first level, 3 second level, 3 third level and 2 fourth level spell slots
At ESL 9 you will have 4 first level, 3 second level, 3 third level, 3 fourth level and 1 fifth level spell slots
At ESL 10 you will have 4 first level, 3 second level, 3 third level, 3 fourth level and 2 fifth level spell slots
At ESL 11 you will have 4 first level, 3 second level, 3 third level, 3 fourth level, 2 fifth level and 1 sixth level spell slots
At ESL 12 you will have 4 first level, 3 second level, 3 third level, 3 fourth level, 2 fifth level and 1 sixth level spell slots (Yes, the final attainable ESL in BG3 provides no additional spell slots)

This remains true irregardless of HOW you acquire these ESL.

Any combination of 1 level of Bard/Cleric/Druid/Sorcerer/Wizard, 2 levels of Paladin/Ranger or 3 levels of Eldritch Knight/Arcane Trickster will produce the same results at the same ESL.

This is different to prior editions where each class had their own unique ESL based on their specific class levels. Where you could get additional first level spell slots from getting an ESL in multiple classes. The upside to the new 5e version is you're now able to access higher level spell slots with multiclasses (And can upcast any known spell to any available spell level), at the cost of the number of first level spell slots you're able to obtain (And an overall decrease in total number of available spell slots, especially for Sorcerers)

Okay then, there is something odd going on. You *should* have level 2 spell slots.

I respecced a hireling to check this out. Level 4 EK does gain a spell slot at level 4, which implies that it is ESL 2 at that level. However, when I start as lvl 2 paladin then lvl 4 EK does not add an ESL, and 2 paly 4 EK remains ESL 2.

The problem isn't that they don't have 5 lvl 1 spell slots (that isn't how casters levels progress) the problem is that they don't have 4 lvl 1 and 2 lvl 2, which is what they should get at ESL 3.

I suspect that something goofy is happening with the rounding of the levels. In BG3 paladin levels are supposed to round up for ESL. It looks like EK levels do too. Maybe when they are combined the rounding is bugged?

In any case, I now believe that there is an actual problem here.

Did some more testing, but I don't have enough time to fully explore this. Right now I think that the following is happening...

If you have a single class of half or third caster, the game rounds up to determine ESL (example EK 4th level rounds 4/3 up to 2).
If you have two third casters (EK and Arcane Trickster) then you sum the levels, divide by three, and round down (example, EK+Arcane doesn't get ESL 3 until the sum of the classes is 9).
If you have two half casters (Pally and Ranger) then you sum the classes and round down (ESL goes up on even levels)

EDIT:

for the original EK + Pally that inspired the thread, it appears that you add EK/3 + Pally/2 and round down. IMO it should round up to be consistent with single class pally or EK progression.

Not sure if helpful, but ...
My Jaheira is EK 6/Druid 4
and I have what I should at ESL 6:
4 first level, 3 second level and 3 third level spell slots

Yeah, I cheated and took 6 levels of EK to have the indisputable 2 ESL (and the 2nd Fighter Feat).

She doesn't have access to 3rd levls spells, so she upcasts those she knows

Just tested with pally+bard.

lvl 2 pally is ESL 1
Add 1 bard ESL 2

At this point if I add 1 bard I get ESL 3, which is expected from adding a full caster class.
If I add pally there is no change to ESL.

So this is almost working the way it should work in tabletop 5e, which always rounds down. However, the single class half/third classes round up, so its surprising that half/third class combos round down. Personally, I think it should consistently round up or consistently round down.,

Thats not how that works in D&D5.

Shockingly, the BG3 wiki explains that half/third classes round up, unless ESL is concerned, when these are rounded DOWN.

I'm not surprised that the wiki figured that out before I did. I just don't think that it is a particularly good scheme. Easy enough to just use full+half/2+third/3 and round up (after excluding pally 1 and ranger 1 from consideration, as they have not yet earned any casting).

This just ends up at most 1 esl higher than the round down scheme, so its hardly broken.

D&D5 Player Handbook describes it the same though.


In the class section, if you stay pure class, after the second or third level, you get the next stage rounded up.

So there are no spells on a Paladin 1 or Eldritch Knight 2, but Paladin 3 and Eldritch Knight 4 get as many spells per day as a pure spellcaster 2; therefore an Eldritch Knight 4 with no other levels gets 3 level 1 spells.

Multiclassing are explained in a later chapter. If you multiclass, you round down and pick the spells per day as if you would be a spellcaster of the resulting level.

Thus Paladin (Any Order) 2 / Eldritch Knight 4 still only gets 3 level 1 spells and thats all. Identical to a pure spellcaster 2, a Paladin 3, and an Eldritch Knight 4.

So the early spells per day on a pure class character is kind of a bonus that you lose if you multiclass.


You still get the same prepared spells as a singleclass character. Thus the Pal2/EK4 will be able to prepare 2+Cha Modifier Paladin spells and will know 2 Wizard Cantrips, 2 Abjuration or Evocation spells, and 2 general Wizard spells (because level 4 is the first time one can trade, so an Abjuration or Evocation pick on level 3 can be traded for a general Wizard spell during levelup to 4).



P.s.: Besides I dont like at all how this works out.

For example if you are an EK 4, you may have picked two Abj/Evo spells you like. You are forced to pick a third one. And then if you want a spell thats neither Abj nor Evo you have to trade one of the two you already picked and that you like to trade for a general Wizard spell.

Leading to the shizo situation that you want to pick one of the Abj/Evo spells at level 3 as a throwaway spell and pick the second Abj/Evo spell you may like only at level 4, so you can trade the throwaway away for a spell of other schools.