Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Companions: how have your views on them changed from first impressions?

Not exactly: Ranger was itself a subclass of Fighter back in BG1 days (2nd edition D&D) Barbarian and Berserker were kits from the Complete Fighters Handbook. People could have applied them to Fighter subclasses too, although a separate Handbook appeared later for Rangers.

Hm, a lot of different opinions here! My biggest impressions:

Karlach: Didn't enjoy her. Felt a bit like a character out of a children's cartoon personality wise to me.

Halsin: Loved. His personality was more layered than it seemed at the surface. Always a sucker for 'personal sacrifice for the good of the people' types.

Gale: Something about him made me uncomfortable. Can't really put my finger on it. He has some sweet moments, but I had difficulty keeping him in party because he somehow made my skin crawl.

Wyll: Total prince charming. Was very sad he lost so much content from EA. A good mixture of sweet and strong. And his VA was amazing.

Astarion: Thought his hair was a bit silly (it was a strong first impression lol), but his dorky, morbid sense of humor made him fun to keep around constantly. A party staple.

Minsc and Jaheira: I got the sense they were both very powerful, despite surface appearance. Still waters run deep here.

SH: she was really unpleasant and unenjoyable to talk to. I didn't feel inclined to "impress her" in order to get her to open up. Also her bangs felt so silly. Stuck through it, and by the end of the game I really liked her!

Lae'zel. Ride or die from first meeting. I loved how straightforward and harsh she was, and seeing her convictions get challenged later on...her writers did a great job with it! A well rounded and well thought out character imo.

For me he is usually a little cagey about his request and doesn't want to tell me why he needs our magical items, which makes the whole situation a little suspicious. So if you have a player character who doesn't trust easily and is a bit morally flexible, you might want to abuse your newly gained powers to learn more. What I specifically love about the scene is that it does not have to be a pure exploit of powers (as it is with Astarion) but that you can be apologetic about it, which I really loved as a layer of complexity for my own character. As a player I don't mind feeding him our magic loot either, I feel the Grove is deliberately stacked with a variety of possible Gale dinners. It's a whole different level of pain when you are Avatar-Gale and are basically forced to eat a super nice ring on day one.

I don't like custom characters much in games that have a narratively tight story because I feel it takes too much shoehorning and preplanning to get a satisfyingly impactful story out of it. I know Durge tries to bridge that gap a bit, but I didn't vibe with Duge's writing and it annoyed me pretty quickly. Otoh I am having a great time with Astarion, Gale and Shadowheart as my avatars, and I also like how they shift the main plot to be their personal quest + dealing with the tadpole, instead of putting focus on the whole conspiracy.

Good comparison. Really, pretty infantile behavior for a character who is supposed to be someone who went through the Devil Wars in the Nine Hells. And she regularly uses the word “soldier” even though I find it rather difficult to see her as a “soldier” herself. When she tries to pose as a “protector” towards Tav, it's... just facepalm.


Maybe his hypocrisy? My impression is that Gale is trying hard to show himself to be “good” according to the moral standards of the society around him. He is quite clever, and he generally succeeds. His real attitude is “revealed” in his lines when some misfortune happens to one of his companions (if Astarion catches fire in the sun, the old line before correction, the reaction if you give Shadowheart to Viconia, etc.). I changed my attitude towards him after he demanded that Astarion be kicked out of the camp after learning that he was a vampire, even though he himself is a walking bomb, and he himself was supported and “fed” artifacts to him in every way possible, but when someone else has the problem, and “moral standards” allow such behavior, everything becomes clear with Gale. Gale gets attached to Tav though (but they all do if you properly help them on their quests), and may sacrifice himself at the end. I don't condemn this approach, it's also a survival option, and it didn't make my skin crawl - Gale is a rather weak character, such a person is unlikely to ever dare to stab someone in the back who is strong enough, even if the situation doesn't go the way he wants it to, but he is quite capable of leaving a co-partner to die.


Haha, Astarion's jokes never seemed dorky to me, but periodically made me roll under the table with laughter. In some places in his jokes lies a very even intellectual subtext, well, I'm generally a great connoisseur of black humor, Stephen Rooney managed, certainly managed to impress me with his character's lines. But the jokes of Minsc, on the contrary, maybe once you can laugh at something, but then perceived as: “Oh, no, it's going to be about ‘asses’ again, or about ‘good’, or all together...”. In BG2 the authors somehow managed not to “overdo” Minsk, but in BG3 this character gets tiresome after a while, too hyperbolized fool.


Yeah! I agree. Her straightforwardness is exactly what makes her trustworthy, and it makes me want to impress her and build a good relationship with her. And the way she yells at you, yet gives approval when her beliefs are questioned - a small touch, but a cool character reveal. Her scenario was really well handled.

I really wanted to like Karlach. She reminded me a lot of the first Dovahkiin I ever made in Skyrim way back. It helped a little to lean into the naivety of her a bit. *In my opinion she judges others from a sort of childish morality meter, but is really blind to herself often doing the same thing. When I view it that way, she becomes a bit more empathetic. Ie, she's not as good or perfect as she thinks she is (which is understandable, and makes her naivety a bit more relatable). Though, not someone I'd enjoy on anything but a really good-aligned playthrough! (Which I never really play that way)

Edit for clarity, my evolution of opinion on Karlach is: wanted to like > did not like > learned to roleplay with >ending with seeing the value in her character even if it wasn't for me personally. Apologies for not laying that out more clearly!

For Astarion, his little joke about Halsin making "an excellent shield" is one of my favorite lines. The joke itself is, in my opinion, delightfully morbid (using companions as fodder), but the way he sort of braces himself and leans his shoulder in as he says it is just so endearingly dorky. I already though he was clever before, but seeing him be just outright silly made me like him even more!

For Astarion my evolution of opinion was: judged by appearance > wait he is morbidly funny > oh cool they made him silly, I like himself *a lot* now! Wanted to give my specific example of my favorite joke that pushed that evolution forward. (Sorry if thats off topic!)

It’s pretty clear from reading this thread that we’ve had an interesting variety of reactions to different characters. Let’s try to keep discussion here light and friendly by respecting those different perspectives by avoiding implying that our own views are objective (sometimes a good way to do this is to talk about our impressions of a character, as Natasy does above, as opposed to about what the character is actually like). And by keeping our language calm and moderate when we know we’re making negative comments about characters who, while fictional themselves so don’t have feelings to hurt, can mean a lot to other fans.

Let’s also be careful to avoid derailing the thread by getting involved in detailed side discussions of the characters, rather than how our impressions have changed. Consider starting or resurrecting a different thread if you’d like to discuss a specific character in more detail.

Thanks! (And apologies for moderating before things have actually deteriorated, but from experience here I thought it worth a quick reminder to hopefully help avoid that outcome.)

Alphabetic order:
Astarion - I tended to kill him immediatelly after he deceived me and tried to backstab me. Having him in my party made my opinion go from bad to worse. Cheating, lying sadist. Chaotic Evil.
Gale - my opinion of the arrogant academic actually improved the longer I had him in the party, Neutral Good, I'm surprised to say.
Karlach - a young criminal made into a slave soldier, mental age - 15. Chaotic Neutral
Lae'zel - insuferable racist bitch, no change. Lawful Evil
Shadowheart - whining voice does her no favours. A psycho, two peas to a pod with batnose. No change. Neutral Evil
Wyll - pass. Boring. The last-gasp rewrite leaves holes the size of Bahamut or Tiamat in his story

Shadowheart : Variant of the old changeling folklore story. kidnapped as a child, raised in evil company, returning to her origins she becomes her old self again. A classic story. Love her.

Astarion : A corrupt official in Baldur's Gate's administration. Gets corrupted physically and becomes undead, is tortured during a century, and suddenly finds freedom again. Seems normal that he's a bit cynical after all that. Don't like him, but we can get along because we must.

Gale : Slept with a Goddess and wanted more. Got really screwed. He deserved it. Now he's ashamed to tell us, but he wants us to help him with a supernatural problem nevertheless, because he 's going to be of soooo much use to us afterwards. What a jerk.

Wyll : The blade of the frontiers. Doesn't want to talk about his problems and history until he needs our help. What a jerk.

Karlach : Originally a kind of mafia bandit, but she got a really shitty deal. Now she has no future left for her, but she lives each day as a new day and can give the team a veritable laugh and motivation. Love her.

Minthara : She's the bestest. Just follow her lead and love her, no questions asked.

Jaheira : A long history of saving people sems to have given her a cynical twist also. Despite all that she's okay. We 're having our daily cup of tea together to exchange gossip and make plans to defeat the absolute.

Minsc : Ask Boo what it thinks.

Halsin : We saved you. Now be quiet.

I appreciate when the characters have shortcomings and there are inconsistencies which portray how they struggle with their identiy and self image.

When Wyll is caught in his own deception, Gale struggles with his ambition and belief that he would make a better God, Minthara grovels in front of Ketheric, Karlach handwaves the ethical ramifications of soul coins, Halsin doubts his abilities and work as a leader. Those are the moments when the companions become most human to me. I cannot judge them for having the same struggles with who we want to be and who we really are as the rest of us.

I appreciate Wyll and Gale because they are introspective and we can share those struggles with them very earnestly. They are not honest with themselves or you, but you get to join them on their journey and arc to getting there. I like that it's not entirely about how something external has deceived, wronged or brainwashed them, but also an internal self-deception that they carry. The boat scene with romanced Gale and stargazing scene are my two top favourite personal scenes in the game.

That's so nice to read. I always thought, I was alone in those two being my favourite scenes.

The boat scene also plain simply leaves me in awe. I once spent and evening going through different variations of it, from the righteous "you shall not desire such things" route, to edging him on, to letting him sweep you off your feet with his plan, to telling him that you are very fond of the man and don't need him to be anything else. Each gives you the impression of deciding your future together with Gale. I also love that if you talk him out of the Crown and have shaken up his self-perception, he is not ok. He is so much not ok, that right at the brain stem, he might make that last ditch effort to do one big, grand gesture instead of having to live with himself. Only after the brain fight and in the time between the end of the game and the epilogue, does he come to terms with his situation.

I also get the impression that there are character flaws which are considered cool, so it's ok if they go unchallenged as long as the character's backstory is tragic enough. (BBG Astarion is a prime example for that.) While there are other flaws that are decidedly uncool, so they are held against the character even if they are fully acknowledged by the story and get resolved through the plot. Gale's need to please and impress, as well as his mix of desiring power while at the same time being scared of causing harm with it, are examples of this. All get resolved over time and you can see him gradually become less tense more at ease with chaos - even going so far as to joke about his bomb. (You could probably make a video about Gale's character development told through scenes about booze and socialising.)

With Wyll it's all a bit more buried, which is a shame. I like the party conversation with him if you kill Karlach and he has come to realise that he can never be the hero he wants to be as long as he is bound to Mizora.

I'm not necessarily sure thats a fair assumption. I think to be a bit more understanding, it's important to remember some issues will just speak more to certain people! And certainly personality traits will just be more off putting to certain people.

Everyone is different in their perspectives and priorities! Karlach is a really prime example. Can't speak much on Gale, as I have my own personal reasons for finding him uncomfortable. But a player who values maybe a more stark view of reality, and tough pragmatism, may be put off by someone such as Karlach who enforces (what I feel) is a very naive outlook, in a way that feels very immature.

I wouldn't say that has anything to do with "what's cool" by any means! I think it's valid to just find some things off putting.


Oh, this is well said. This is the perspective I can ultimately come to with the characters I dislike. Even if, from a roleplay perspective, I wouldn't bring it into the game, I as player can still sit back and enjoy the characters through filters like this. I think it's interesting how it can tie in so well with the concept the tadpoles bring, of the greatest monster of the game being inside everyone's own mind.

Would you be ok with it if I turned "cool" - which is admittedly slightly flippant - into "socially more acceptable" ?

With Karlach it is less her view on life (and what I think is deliberate self-deception in some points) that bothers me, but that it cannot be questioned. I think the only time you can call her out for something is when she complains about having to save Mizora's asset in order to save Wyll from eternal damnation. Otherwise she is allowed to the luxury not having to deal with a lot of things. In addition with how even the more cynical party members are only ever full of admiration or at least respect for her, I am left with the impression that this was mostly done to make her end more tragic but it unfortunately takes away a lot of the potential of the character too.

But that's just me, I generally prefer inner demons over the quick and easy solution to hit a bad guy and be done with it.

A reminder:


It’s fine to digress briefly to explore an interesting side point or opinion, as long as it’s all good natured and everyone is having fun, but please be careful not to take over the thread!

Honestly, no! It's not the term used, but the supposition on *why* a player may or may not like a certain character in such a monolithic fashion. I think that sort of over simplifies how complex people (and the topic) are. Also preference vs analysis! We could discuss all day the finer tunings of a character, and *why* they act a certain way, but, it's not going to suddenly make me enjoy the behavior, or want to engage with it. (Sorry Shadowheart lol. Though I did actually find her a bit more sympathetic as the game progressed, for a whole digression of reasons).


Yeah, I would find it much more interesting if we had the inability to ever call her on it. Otherwise it comes across as...not a self-insert, but like a self inserted ideal. Which, inevitably not everyone will agree she is. But it's going to break the fourth wall for me when I sense it. I think it's interesting you see her self-deception as intentional. I'd ask you why, but not sure if we're being told to stop the conversation here? (Sorry mods for the digression)

Yes please! No issue with the discussion in and of itself, and it would be fine in another thread, but it’s threatening to take over and derail this one.

Ha, guilty, I guess. I find that analysing a character adds to my enjoyment of them as characters even though I might still not like them as people. I hope this makes sense in its brevity and does not digress too much. I am equally sorry for derailing a bit, Red Queen.


It's also what makes me a little apprehensive to try her Origin because from clips I have seen, it slides even more deeply into this idealised self insert territory. I don't like it if my character is singled out as the hero for things which have been group efforts, and I equally don't enjoy being fawned over by my companions too much. I guess the line between caring for the PC and fawning over them is a fine one.

Talking about the companions as Origins (I hope it is alright and not too much of a derailment to talk of the companions when playing as them) I was surprised how much Wyll and Astarion's relationship changes /can change depending on if they are both companions or if Astarion is Avatar. For Avatar-Astarion, Wyll doesn't seem to be bothered by the whole vampire situation, so I wasn't prepared for all the jabs against Astarion when they are both companions. That really took me by surprise. Otoh, I find Wyll's indecisiveness during his quest much more bearable as Avatar-Astarion because you can play the "I used to be in law" card and basically become Wyll's lawyer when dealing with Mizora.

By contrast, I enjoy Gale's origin a lot because the other companions aren't necessarily much nicer to you, even if they are a bit more sympathetic. You just can't feel very heroic when your cat, the space warrior and the resident vampire all boss you around. Talking about the latter, I do find him much more enjoyable in Gale's Origin too because he seems to have a bit more agency in it. He basically becomes the devil on your shoulder who advertises free will (that one is bugged atm, unfortunately), power, and taking over the cult as an alternative to death and redemption. Which is of course very sinister but also makes for such a good story. By contrast with my Avatar-Shadowheart Astarion's attempts to power-grab feel a lot more random.

@Anska, I feel this is now more than just derailing a bit, and certainly would be if anyone replied to your points rather than getting back onto topic.

As I said, I’m happy for any constructive, friendly discussion within rules to happen in an appropriate thread, but am firmly calling time on this digression now. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions or objections.