Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion I have never been mocked so hard for choosing a romance route in a game before

My apologies; I know this has been discussed before. There is a somewhat similar thread at the first page regarding Halsin advances, but it's not about him, it's not even so much about Shadowheart's character, but how this particular decision is still affecting a group of players who took the most popular romance route and are being mocked by both the creative decision and the community.

Things would be so much easier if she would tell you that she is into open relationships from the very beginning, but she said otherwise, and that was a lie. Being lied like that is offensive to many players. It is offensive for those who wanted mono route; I believe it is offensive for lesbians, as they have horny man trying to insert himself into the established relationship, but their LI, somehow, more than fine with this; It is offensive to poly as well, as they were deceived just the same, being told by Shadowheart that she is not into it the first two acts. We were blatantly deceived, and I believe we have every right to be offended.

I feel like I was lured into a trap, as I was told by Shadowheart that she doesn't want to be a spare lover, and I believed her. I love Love, and I played as a commited and loyal character, only to stumble upon that flirty banter between Shadowheart and Halsin, that is happening regardless of your choices. She never expressed a will to open the relationship, nor did you, yet she is more than willing to accept it. Then I found out what kind of things she is admitting in those scenes you have avoided, and it stings being aware of that. I try to ignore it, try to tell myself that this content is pretty much avoidable, but even if this never happened in your playthrough, it's there, and you know now what she is thinking about a lot, what she is dreaming about. Emotional affair is a real thing, it hurts a lot in real life and it leads to dire consequences.

I can't avoid this part of content even if the game is not launched, as there are a lot of posts like [LINK TO POST REMOVED BY MODERATOR] keeps appearing. it's just one of many examples. You can find easily lots of other examples, or just wait for a couple of days on reddit or any other forum, similar posts will most likely pop-up somewhere, some are upvoted, others, like this, don't, it depends. And I have noticed, that when people, who wants to disagree with sudden character change and raise this issue, their concerns are usually demeaned and insulted by other users who are on board with this change or just try to gloat over another group of players. They have been called names, made assumptions on their character and on themselves IRL, but they just cared about characer's arc. Just look at the comments in the similar posts, many of them are even upvoted. In the best case scenario, they would get a response like "Lol, you got too worked up about pixels, she is not real, go touch a grass, lol". She may be not, but the time, emotional and financial investment in the game is pretty much real.


I am sorry, just wanted to vent out my frustration and speak out in defence of other players. Do we really deserve this treatment?

Hey new user.

Did you happen to see this rule when you signed up:

Do not attempt to incite conversation around existing or past community drama or antecedent infighting.

It's unfortunate that you feel other people are being dismissive and demeaning on other platforms, but discussions here have largely moved on from such drama.

If you are interested in a sincere discussions in good faith about story and romance choices where you are willing to accept that we can have different personal views and perspectives, lots of users, such as myself, will happily engage with the topic. But just as you have the right to your own interpretation and feelings regarding the portrayal of different characters and their actions, so does everyone else.

Sorry, I am not trying to incite any fighting, I am not attacking anyone, I respect everyone's opinion. But this is overall hurtful experience for me and not only, and I just want to vent this out of my system in a healthy conversation. I doubt Larian would listen, because it's been so long, but alas, to no avail. I am genuinely hope for patch 8 to sooth some things, but I lost any hope already. Is there a way to see things from different perspective and restore the faith in the character for me?

I am not sure if it helps, but to me her act 2 dialogue when in a love triangle didn't indicate that she was generally opposed to the idea. To me her answer seemed more situational. I dumped her for Astarion and Gale, with the former she was concerned for him and thought getting the player's undivided attention would be good for him, while with Gale she was concerned he'd turn it into a competition and she'd be left at the sidelines. For me this wasn't an objection to the idea or even to the suggested companion, but that it would be a bad idea in the moment with the person involved. So what I got from the conversations was mostly that she cares for her fellow tadfools (as well as herself) and values everyone's well-being more than her personal love life. Just my impression of course.

Ok, if there is a different perspective you are looking for, I can try to explain things from a different personal perspective. It's not an absolute truth, just the way I personally see things:

When it comes to open relationships and polyamory it is a preference, just like any other preference. A person can't help what preferences they have, but when we commit to a relationship we will always evaluate all the different aspects of our partner and how they align with our preferences.

For some people the preference for non-monogamy or monogamy is not negotiable. You have characters like Lae'zel who is adamant that they will not share or agree to any form of open relationship under no circumstances, and at the opposite end of the spectrum you have Halsin who is adamant that he will not have an exclusively monogamous relationship. In between that you have characters who are willing to adapt and negotiate with their preferences. You have Karlach who is reluctant to having an open relationship, but will agree to it if it is something that is very important to their partner. You have Shadowheart who would choose an open relationship if their partner is ok with it, but is willing to commit to a monogamous relationship if it is something that is important to their partner. This is a very realistic and accurate portrayal of an entire spectrum of preferences and how different people are willing to compromise on different things in a relationship.

To be very clear, you can be a person with a preference for non-monogamy and still be madly and deeply in love and emotionally attached to a specific single person, and that love and attachment can be strong and important enough to you that you don't need an open or polyamorous relationship to be happy. But if that person said that they would be ok with bringing in other people and want to discuss it with you, you would engage in the discussion and begin suggesting suitable people without hesitation. It does not mean that you don't love or value your partner any less, in fact it shows that you are so serious with wanting to be in a relationship with that person that you are perfectly fine and happy with adapting to their needs. And if it is not a deal-breaker, you wouldn't necessarily bring that up early in a relationship, because you can cross that bridge when you get there.

Thank you for your replies. That's the thing, she may apply to other characters when she express her being not comfortable in a love triangle situation, she still refuses, even with Karlach. This, and because of not wanting to be a spare lover line, I personally came to a completely different conclusion. For me, this and the stuff that happens in the third act contradicts each other. You're absolutely right about communication being the key. My main complaint is that I didn't have the clarity and there is a lack of communication in that regard, and for me, it was a low blow.

I am unaware of the mocking you speak of so I can't comment on that, but I have romanced Shadowheart a couple of times now, and neither time did I run into these situations. Probably because I steer clear of Halsin as much as possible, and partly because I simply find the character boring and it annoys me that nearly every conversation with him will quickly turn lewd if you don't pay attention and pick your responses carefully. I can't stand the guy, but he reveals his horny side very early so it can be avoided. Anyway, my point is the situation is avoidable. While I understand your frustration, if you get upset just by knowing about something that can happen but can be avoided - you may be a little too emotionally invested. It's still just a computer game, it is supposed to be fun first and foremost. Everything that happens was brainstormed and written by people, to make a fun and engaging game, and part of that is having a billion different ways things can play out. If you get upset, consider doing something else entirely or taking a route that does not expose you to the situation - e.g. don't recruit Halsin at all or just leave him rotting in camp until Orin nicks him...

(Now that I know this can happen, I think I'll just let her have him next time)

papercut_ninja has already done my job for me

I have removed the link to the Reddit post, to limit the breach of our rule about not inciting conversation around community infighting, but as long as the ongoing discussion focuses on sharing personal views of Shadowheart’s romance, and remains friendly, calm and respectful of different perspectives and preferences, we’ll be good.

I’ll also note that this is a topic on which we’re never all going to agree and that’s absolutely fine. But it does mean that at some point we need to agree to disagree, so let’s please be mindful of this and recognise when we’ve made our point and not get tempted into keeping repeating ourselves or talking in circles.

There are certainly some things in act 3 that suffers from a bit of a rush and the late decision to include a character with a polyamorous romance path that didn't merge seamlessly.

But, the thing with relationships is that there are always could-have-been moments that just never happened because it wasn't the right time. In act 1 and 2 she is also still having a personal conflict between her feelings for Tav and her Sharran ambitions, so she might just be looking for a convenient excuse to convince herself that it's never going to work and bow out.

Please bear in mind that I am not against characters being aligned with other preferences other than mine, I am not throwing jabs at anyone, on the contrary.


In all of the talks between the characters and multiple patches/fixes/content updates, it would be much easier if she would say something "Love is like a garden and there is a plenty of space for many flowers, if you know what I mean" sometime in act 1. But it's not, she literally says otherwise.


It is avoidable, it's true, and I have avoided it (except for that godawful banter that is playing regardless). But I still can't get rid of the feeling, that it is her character, and no matter how much you will avoid it, it's there, and it taints the route for me, and I would still perceive that as an emotional affair on my Tav, this is really unprecedentent thing for me. The only way I could alter her story and her character, if I would play as her OC protagonist, because that is the valid option, but that would be in the cold, hard, Tav-less world. And yeah, I know how ridiculous this is, being worked up about emotional affair by the fictional character, that is practically doesn't have any real emotions. But that's BG3, based on DnD, it's immersive CRPG experience, a nice place to escape from life sometimes, and it's only natural that I have feelings about characters and the story, and got frustrated. Of course it's not the end of the world, I can deal with being taunted online or being upset with the game experience, there are by far worse things happens in life.

Honestly, I don't find it ridiculous - it is more a testament to how successful the game is at immersing us into its world. I'm not that touched by the romances, I find them fun distractions at most, I am more strongly affected by various tragedies merely hinted at by clues around the world, things that don't always come up in the story itself but give you lore showing just how evil some of the villains are. Like, there is no way in hells I will ever deal with Ethel after all she's done. Her hair be darned...

Her Origin is very fun though ... (but I am saying that as someone who doesn't like playing Tavs ^^ )

A different question: Is it horrible if the romance is not perfectly spotless? I feel there is a certain bittersweetness to all the endings, some more, some less, and it of course always depends if you enjoy or can accept a specific brand of wermut in your romance, but does it really spoil your character's whole romance with Shadowheart? I mean, they are happy with each other in the end, no matter what thoughts Shadow had, in what must have been a very stressful time for her. Aren't they? Honest question, as I know there are several other absolute dealbreakers for people in the other romances too.

And I don't think it's ridiculous either. It just means that the character and her romance resonated with you really well, and you were deeply immersed in the game.


Such upright behaviour is commendable when great power beckons! ^^

I don't think, anyone should be mocked, but I personally don't care, if a character could go some way, I don't like. I just play the current character and roleplay them.
I played the Shadow romance in my first full playthrough as a lesbian romance ( for me personally, she has lesbian energy) and I had Halsin trying to insert himself twice, once in our camp and once on the road, when he had this swimming combo with Shadow. He sounded unhinged and like the typical ' nice guy', but I just did send him to horny jail ( camp, where he stays until Orin needs a victim in every playthrough).
I still don't understand why Halsin became a companion and not someone like Barcus, who actually has a story throughout all three acts and is pretty well liked ( so much do, that Wulbren became the most hated character for being mean to Marcus).

I personally don't care, that Shadow has poly tendencies, I think, it is not against her personality. I just don't see any chemistry with Halsin. I would team her up with someone like Lae'zel, the enemies to lover trope can be very impactful, if done well.

Again, I don't think it's ok to mock you for not being ok with it. It is ok to discuss it and have different opinions about it.
I just leave Halsin in camp nowadays,since he has nothing to add in act 3 but sexual innuendo and I really find him pretty 'ewww' personally, but he makes a great Orin victim.

Unfortunately, it absolutely does spoil. It's okay if romance route is not perfect and filled with challenges. But the fact that your character have been there for her, the only one she trusts, her confidant, her partner, that can change her life in a way no one else did, makes it even worse. Considering all that, it feels like your character still wasn't enough for her. She craves another, she dreams about another, she is explicitly lustful towards the other. In life, in the best case scenario, it would lead to couples therapy with a lots of "thoughts do not define us" talks and still leave sour taste in the mouth. In the worst case, it will destroy not only relationships, but a person as well.


The worst part for me is not even a creepy advances, it's the fact that Shadowheart is more than willing to accept them. There could be some tweaks in the dialogues that could send the players different message from "I always thought and dreamed about this" to "It feels like a dream". Somehow let the players know, that she is enjoying it only because you chose it, not because she craved it all along, just didn't tell you about it. But the way as it is now, it's just awful.

I would personally find it a lot more disturbing and off-putting if the scenario was set up that Shadowheart is just some doll without agency that simply does what you demand of her on your request. This is too much submissive tradwife for me.

Feeling adverse towards Halsin as a character and his involvement I can understand, because that's just a personal opinion. We like and dislike different characters for a variety of reasons and they don't have to be fair or justified. But some people like their dynamic and that's a fair opinion as well.


I am more in agreement with this approach. That Shadowheart has agency, preferences and interests of her own, but chooses to put those aside if they don't align with Tav's expectations of a relationship is to me a more honest and adult romance development that appeals much more to me.

It's not about submission, not at all. It's about respecting the boundaries, that I believe she set in the first two acts, and finding a compromise that shows that your character was enough for her both physically and emotionally.


I just had to say that, didn't I?... Ugh... Bleh.

I don't see Shadow setting boundaries tbh. There is this dialogue combo where Astarion asks, if the others have sweethearts waiting in BG and Shadowheart is like ' eww - relationship. I just seek sex and move on' . She says it more eloquent, but it makes it pretty clear, she is a free spirit. I personally question her taste ( with Halsin, not my very cute halfling lady, she of course is perfect :-D), especially since she has that pretty flirty line with Karlach and no comment on Halsin whatsoever beforehand apart from mocking him.
But generally I think, she is pretty open to a lot of stuff.
And in all honesty, I personally just don't like Halsin and morn the lost opportunity of having a small race companion instead.

Is that dream line from the brothel? It sounds like something from the brothel, when you initiated the fivesome.

Without wanting to be contrary, to me it shows your character is enough for her in all regards because, even though she might have had some sexual fantasies about Halsin, she ultimately doesn't act on them, she doesn't even bring them up unless you initiate something. (Although this probably depends on where on the scale of betrayal that flirty banter falls for you.) That sounds like a choice to me, especially for someone who in act 1 scoffs at longterm bonds and is in favour of short term amusements. But I might be missing something because I only know her romance until act 2, where she gave me flirty greetings but also put her faith over romance.

She have that line, yes. But what I saw in her development through her romance arc is that she wasn't emotionally connected with others until she meets your character. You know about that, about Shar practices, yet she seemed like she genuinely wanted escape from all that and find something completely different with you, she doesn't sleep with you outright, and to you personally she tells you about not wanting to be a spare lover. She goes that route from "ew, relationship" to finding someone she would be willing to live happily ever after. And being finally emotionally connected and having emotional affair at the same time seem so contradicting and simply insulting to the main character.


I wish I could perceive that as lustful lies, which could be easily avoided. But that banter just confirms that what she said there was true, they speak about your intimate moment and she would be like "Yeah, sure, come along next time". And that happens if you have an imprudence to take them both to your party, while romancing Shadowheart even if you have been faithful the entire time. That made my Tav look like obedient tradwife, who doesn't have a word in the relationship. Maybe my character fell for the wrong one in the end.

Personally I don't take that banter so seriously and more like a playful joke and Shadowheart teasing him a bit. But, I don't dismiss those who take more offense to it, especially if you have rejected Halsin and told him you are not interested to which he has given the mature response that he won't press the matter. Then I can certainly understand that it feels disrespectful having him and Shadowheart talk about him joining next time like you are not even there.

I honestly thought this was going to be adressed when they announced there would be a platonic path for Halsin. To me a platonic friend does not initiate conversations with his friend's partner about being part of their intimate activities. It has been a repeated request and feedback from players that they would like to have this banter behind a romance flag for Halsin. Though I don't really care either way, I rarely have Halsin out of camp and I kind of shrug at that banter anyway, I think it's a fair request. It doesn't ruin anything for those who want a poly romance with Halsin and Shadowheart since it's still there if you reciprocate Halsin's advances and it makes Halsin more consistent on his word for those who reject him.

But I don't know what goes on in the development room, maybe the flags aren't as easy to apply as it seems, seeing as how a bunch of them didn't work at all before and now we have the opposite issue that the companions will infinitely repeat banter about romances and even comment on romances that haven't even happened. So maybe not touching them is the better way to go at this point, at least we know what we get and how it can be avoided if we don't care for it.