Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Wyll should make his own decisions

Sure, if you put it like that yes, the decision-making of all video game characters is all smoke and mirrors. But I suspect people who'd like to see Wyll make his own decisions aren't planning to take a walkthrough and save-scum to make sure he makes the right decision; or if they do they still think the story would be better if he said it


The line I remember is something like "some magic even I can't undo", which I interpreted to mean Mizora can't reverse it. I don't want to be one of those "BG3 doesn't exactly match my stack of D&D books and is therefore bad", but I figured either a god would be more powerful, and/or Wish would undo it. But that's just my own out-of-game theory that's as relevant to the game as imagining my custom characters' personality

Yeah, I'm normally not savescumming my decisions and sometimes take routes for the companions, that might not be ideal, like Karlach becoming a mindflayer and loosing Astarion, because I took an answer, that I interpreted totally different (and staking him the first time playing BG3 in early access, because I just played Vampire the Masquerade wit ha group and confused how staking works there versues DnD and accidentally killed my rogue), Shadowheart killing her parents ...

As for Wylls looks: It was just a thought, since Wyll was basically cursed by the Nine Hells and Asmodeus is a god, and a pretty powerful one. He might find a way to get rid of the devil look, but I would think, he might come to terms with it and sees it as a badge of gaining his freedom. Wish could work too, maybe he can team up with Gale for that one.

That was written in response to Ragnarok's comment directly above mine that all the companions' choices are just reflections of the player's decisions, with which I disagreed. I just didn't quote the comment because it was directly above mine and I hate bloating the page by using too many or too long quotes. =)

Yes ...
And that is exactly what im missing there.

Either one is different matter, since once you are involved you are shaping them.

I did the oposite ... i wanted Shadowheart to show me her true collors, and so ignored her the whole game, never engaged in any conversations and backed out from every that she initiated ...
I tryed really had to have as little influence on her as possible ... and she was all about Shar, and her sacred destiny, and disliking every kindness i did ...
And yet, when i let her decide ... she spared Nightsong.

So i tryed other game ... ignoring her all together once again, i even didnt have her in my group, i only took her for absolute finale of Shar temple ...
This time, when i let her decide ... she killed her.

The only difference?
My first Tav was good ... second was evil.

And so i dont really think they have any decision, they are MADE to be perfect for your character, each and every time, no matter what or who your character is. :-/

That is my point ...
Even in cases where you can, they dont "do them" ... they do what your Tav would do.

The thing I think you're missing here is that yes every other companion ultimately is responding to your character, but the response is obfuscated. The problem people are having with Wyll is that there's no obfuscation, nothing going on "behind the scenes" as it were. When you make the choice for him, it's just that, making the choice for him. There's no interplay of him reacting secretly to your past choices like with other companions. You just overtly pick an option. That's what people don't like. Think about it this way; if you're watching a movie, would you be satisfied if instead of whatever means of transportation they would need to use, a character just teleported themselves to the next place by walking from one set to the next one?

Well, in that case we are complaining about different things that falls under same topic ...
Feel free to keep them separate.

Yes, it's completely different. I don't know, how you would separate companion decisions from how your main character inlfuences the world, but the point is, that the other companions make decisions based on what they experienced with your character ON THEIR OWN. Wyll doesn't even have that little bit of freedom, so if you want to make the companions totally random decisions, feel free to make a thread about it (though I do think there should be some triggers for them to go in one or the other direction), but this is about giving the one companion out of the origins having the least agency for himself and the least content a bit more.
I fear that storystuff has been sidelined due to the loud complaints and crys about and for kisses and hugs and romance stuff (which gave us Halsin - a companion totally void of anything, but romance stuff in act 3) on every platforms.
But I find it a bit sad, that the one character, that is the most tied to not only this story but also Descend to Avernus through his father gets sidelined so much. If you go through this thread it's not only about the decisions anymore, but a lot of stuff, that could make Wyll a bit more on par with the other characters.

I mean, people don't seem to use him a lot, because of his lack of content - like you said in another thread. You obviously didn't even know, he could help save Karlach and that those two can become an implied couple if you don't romance either of them.
I also read, that people call him stupid for making the deal with Mizora and not making his own decisions: They obviously didn't even have him long enough with them to hear his backstory, otherwise they would have known, he was a teenager, when Mizora tricked him into the pact and the decision problem, as was discussed a lot, is due to him being the least developed due to rewrites. If left alone without Tav, Wyll, if he survives the initial goblin attack to the grove, is the companion most likely to reach BG in one piece - probably at least teaming up with Karlach, since those two will always come to terms. If you listen to what he says in banter and look at his approvals, he would have nearly always have made the sensible decisions, most likely to keep you alive (the only time, he would have not done it, migh thave been the goblin camp, which is not that hard to beat)

A while back, I came across a reddit about one of Gale's bugged flags. It's about bite night, where he should be more sympathetic towards Astarion if you had previously been sympathetic towards his arcane hunger, this in turn would then make Astarion take Gale's side during the bomb reveal. (The flags and checks currently loop into themselves so this can currently never naturally occur. I hope it gets fixed.) Sure, this too depends on Tav's behaviour, but it also adds an element of chance (which scene plays first) and gives the overall impression of the characters being influenced more by each other than by the player. Overall, I think they did an excellent job to make Gale, Shadowheart and Lae'zel's behaviour seem organic, while in the case of Astarion, Karlach and Wyll the video-gamey player influence is pretty much in the open.

Coming back to Wyll, another point which bugs me about him is his Stelmane dialogue. If you only talk to him about her after the Emperor has revealed what he did to her, Wyll is furious about it because it confirms his suspicions about her "stroke" feeling off. If, otoh, you have talked with Wyll about Stelmane before the scene with the Emperor, he is denied his outburst completely. I feel he should be able to talk to him about what the Emperor revealed no matter the order the previous conversations took place in.

I keep seeing people in other BG3 communities talking about how much they despise Wyll, would never use him, and "Which is your least favourite companion and why is it Wyll?". This is just weird to me with him having been part of the core of my first game group, although I know I missed some of the most popular companions then. This sort of stuff appears alongside posts asserting that every custom character has an identical personality (because they're just power gaming rather than roleplaying). I've got no problem with people power gaming rather than roleplaying, or not liking companions that I like, but I don't like the assertion that everyone has the same opinion

The way i described it abowe?

I mean ... its not going to change, ofc ... but in my honest opinion:
If i meet priestess of Shar that wants nothing more than to proove herlsef to her goddess, since she do actualy believe that she is THE chosen one and becoming her most loayal servant is her fate, her sacret dury, her birthright, and the only thing in the world she wants ... and that was training and serving her whole life just for this single goal ...
Then i left this person sitting in camp, ignoring her completely the whole time i travel, never engage with her in any conversation and quickly end those she starts herself ...
Then we get to Nightsong ... wich she should sacrifice to fullfill all those things mentioned abowe ...

She should NOT ... and let me repeat that: NOT ... change her opinion on the spot, just bcs those people who she traveled with for few past days (even if weeks) "seems to be quite nice people".

I just cant take that as good writing and im not even sory for that.

Well in that case, the point is wrong ... since that is not the case.
Again, as described abowe.

That is certainly one way to look at it ...
Another would be that Wyll dont want to make those decisions himself, he needs someone to make them for him, bc in that case no matter the result, he is not responsible ... he just "followed orders".

For one ... that is not what i said.
For two ... lookig at your rank, you dont seem to be moderator, so how about kindly let them decide that?

I think you hit a point here ...
After all Swen said it clearly on game awards "our developers made the game they wanted to play" ... it just seems they have different priorities, and that is perfectly normal.

I keep saying that since release ...
Since Wyll was re-written, most of all about him was lost and he become boring.

Some Fylimar recently told me to suit myself.

That obviously, huh?

Well ... i did ... still didnt find it any relevant for said topic, nor this one ... and i have no way, or desire to proove im telling the truth ... but know that this "obviousness" was and still is false.

I even know that when my Taviefling romanced Karlach and we returned to Avernus together, Wyll went with us.

That word again ...
Have it ever crossed your mind that you judge maybe a little too fast? O_o

I mean ...
I quite honestly thought that this is kinda big part of Wyll's story ... prejudice and suspicion ... lots of people would hate him just for selling his soul, and after all, he never could have said anyone how did that happen ... until the point in game, where he can tell you.

So ... i would even dare to say that if people call Wyll stupid from first few expressions ... then Larian did good job, bcs that is exactly how he should have ben seen at that point.

Guys can you please keep the tone a bit more friendly? I am also not a moderator but I am pretty sure they'd appreciate it if they don't have to call this thread to order.

I also think this goes a bit too much into the direction of "what is a character's true self?" for my taste - if I understand your reasoning correctly Ragnarok. Most of our companions are in some form or another messed up by their life's experiences and those experiences shape their reasoning. What they want on the surface often is not what they want if you dig deeper. Calling this their "true colours" isn't a train of thought I'd subscribe to.

For the purpose of this thread, I think "make their own decisions" means they either have a "do what you want" dialogue option or approach you with an idea of their own, that you can either agree or disagree with. If in Wyll's case he is indecisive, this would still call for a decision-making dialogue.


I think that is mostly internet tough-talk, like with people saying how much they hate Gale and then show you his severed hand if you mention that you like him. Rivalry about whose fav is "the best" also plays into it. I know enough people who really like Wyll, so ....

Don't worry, Rag does that since 2020, I'm not offended nor will I continue that agrument.

And yes, I see those threads too, but at least on Reddit, there are luckily a lot of people jumping in to defend Wyll.

I honestly started out liking all the companions the same, but then the very popular ones had very demanding fans on all platforms and so I decided to campaign for Wyll. I actually really appreciate him not being over the top and a drama queen, but very practical and down to earth. I meant when I said, that I think, Wyll has the best chances on making it to BG in one piece, because he would actually seek out allies and the sensitive options.

And ... why would that be a bad thing? O_o


Nah, that would be actually fine ...
People are evolving and they are evolving trough their experience that is natural process ... what bothers me in BG-3 is that our companions are evolving towards our character, no matter if they experienced anything with them.

You see its perfectly fine in my honest opinion that if you take a Bloodthirsty Vampire trough (sometimes litteral) hell, and you experienced a lot together, maybe even save each other lives few times ... and you show that Vampire how benefitial it is and how good it feels to actualy help others, being kind and and genuinely care about them ... that Vampire may hypoteticaly make a few compromises here and there, bcs he changed ... or at very least understanded that he should hide his true nature.
And that would be good.

Sadly, in BG-3 case ... if you take the same Vampire, put him into your camp, and he experiences quite litterally nothing with anyone ...
How can he change to not being cold blooded selfish bastard anymore?

Especialy concidering that this whole story took barely few days, weeks at best, but most certainly not even whole month!
That is awfully little to change habits you hold on for last 2 centuries!

And that is why i think that Larian never intended to give our companions "their own decisions" ...
That is why i dont really believe they were ever supposed to have any personal prefferences, they have two paths ... and will follow wichever they "feel" (for lack of better therm) your Tav would aproove.

Each and every companion will allways reflect your character, no matter what you do ...
Each and every companion is therefore tailored to be your perfect partner, no matter who you pick.

If you think about it ...
They all are just empty vessels with pretty faces, where we input our desired behaviour and they follow it.

I kinda feel like our companions are in some ways on very simmilar levels as Halsin himself who lets be honest, is there just bcs people were thirsty about him on internet.
And i dont really like that.

I do like when my companions have some story, some character and some prefferences that are fixed bcs they define that character, and then some minor aspects that can be affected ...
But if my companion can be anyting from cruel tyrant to goldstar folks hero ... who *is* he really?

---

What i would WANT ...
But i doubt its going to happen anymore ... but maybe Larian can take that into concideration for their next game ...
Is for our companions to have their own agenda, their own prefferences, to BE fully developet characters ...
And then to just show it ...

I want Shadowheart to be devoted to Shar, if i never gave her any reason to change her mind ...
I want Lae'zel to remain loayal to Vlaakith, as long as i never mention any red flags about her ...
etc,

And most of all, i want to allways have an option to tell them something like "this is your decision *X/Y* im not going to tell you what to do" ...

Bcs what i want is to see where their story would lead them.
Not mine.

And that is why i think that not just Wyll, but every companion should make their own decisions ... and that none of them ever do in curent state.
Is that understandable?


Why?
And i mean it, is there something bad about it?


That would be a start ...

But still, as long as every of your decisions will affect all your companions no matter if they are there or not, its pointless.

Going into whether the "true self" of someone is something that exists as a fixed given in a vacuum, instead of something that develops and is revealed through interaction, is probably a bit too philosophical for this thread. But if we approach the topic more from a "what a character truly wants" angle, your decision to attach this to what they say about themselves at a fairly random point in time and despite them being shown as unreliable narrators from the go, is way to arbitrary for my liking.

In Shadowheart's case, she says she's Lady Shar's number one fan, but you are shown early on how brittle Shar's sway over her is and how much effort Viconia and Shar have to put in to keep her from discovering things about herself which conflict with her Sharran identity. So it's no wonder that it takes very little to make her question her faith.

As for what you would like companion's decision making to be, that's pretty much Gale.

Edit: And I know it's wild coming from me but maybe we could get back to Wyll now.

I agree:
Shadowheart was never really a Sharran - she cares about the wellbeing of children, animals and innocents too much. She feels bad, if the group attacks the grove.

Lae'zel is outright benevolent for a githyanki, she is at least open to learn about Faerun and befriends some of the companions, especially Gale, Wyll and Karlach, very quickly. She even shows admiration for some of them early on (Karlach, when recruited, Wyll, when he stands up toMizora and gets changed for example). That is not your typical gith behavior.

Astarion I will leave out, because to not bring another discusiion in here and because of forum roles, but feel free to pm me about that, if you want to hear my take.

Wyll is generally open to councel and takes critic very well. He also offers advice himself, so I think, he would at least listen to your arguments. Which I do like in the game, still he should be the one who tell MIzora, if he is in or out.

Gale is like Wyll someone, who listens to good arguments and since he relies on you helping him with the Crown and since he is normally teh first one to get approval up, I think, it fits that he would listen to your council.

With Karlach it's a bit different: She will only listen to you, if you go with her to Avernus or she will listen to Wyll and join him in Avernus, but otherwise, she will choose to die or try out living as a mindflayer.

I would say all of them have the potential to become their 'true self' according to what is already in the character or become something they might have think they wanted for various reasons, but doesn't necessarily make their life better. I bet that Sharran Shadowheart is not happy in the long run, since that is totally against her character. Same with Duke Wyll Ravenguard - that is not, who he is and wants to be, but still, both probably can live with that decisions. Lae'zel on the other hand is doomed, Gale might be too, depending on his further decision.

It is an interesting topic, that was brought up, but I do think, it should be its own topic in the story section.

I mean ...
Is there any other way?

Its a nice excuse ... i give you that. But i asumed you realize those characters dont exist outside this story, so logicaly this story is the only time we can observe them.


Rly?
When?
And more importantly: How?

Tell me single (yes i want that many of them) occasion when any of our companions lie about themselves.


Since you dont really know about Viconia existence itself until Act III. ... i have my doubts about "being shown early". O_o
Or maybe we just define "early" differently ... after all, it is just few days adventure ... still this infomation you get at its final act.

Also ...
Maybe im missing something here, but from what i gathered around Shar temple, the only thing Viconia secured was her own place ... i dont really remember single thing Viconia did to keep Shadowheart to learn about her previous self ... on the other hand, i remember her refusing to allow Shadowheart even atempt to become Dark Justiciar, or ascent in rank in any other way ... she even send her on suicide mission, just to get rid of her in the end.

And Shar?
There is no evidence in any intervention at all ... sure, Shadowheart have wiped memory ... wich was done by artefact that is still in the temple. You can easily proove that by fact that Shadowheart is the only companion who cant get stat boost from that mirror.
What else she did? I dont know about anything.

Ergo ...
Contrary is the truth:
She IS Lady Shar number one fan, that fandom(?) is build on lies ofc ... but since Shadowheart dont know that, it doesnt matter really, it is just as strong as it can be.


What?


To what exactly?
Is there even anything more to say?

I mean ... dont want to be rude or anything, but i feel like this topic was completed in OP ...
All people can say is "i agree" or "nah, its fine"

This way this topic at least still lives ... its not like we are interupting any ongoing debate here. :P


---

So?
Those things are not mutualy exclusive.

Shadowheart have beautifully twisted and brainwashed character that turns things on their head just so they fir to her worldview ... have you ever talked to her about Shar? She dont see her as cruel goddess who dont give a split second thought about mortals, she see her as loving and caring mother ...
Shadowheart say herself that Sharans take people memory, not to manipulate them ... that is just propaganda for her ... she believes that the true reason is to help people from pain.

She is basicaly perfect depiction Dark Side of the Force user ... who see all she did as a service for greater good, even if that would mean slaughtering whole classroom of defenceless younglings. If you know what i mean.

That is the sweet irony about her, she is most likely the only Kind Sharran in Faerun.

I believe what you mean here is that she is not "a typical Sharran" ... wich would be true.
But i have seen no indication that she is supposed to be.


Im sory, i have no idea where are you going with this. :-/

I think none of our companions is "typical" ... well anything for that matter.
That doesnt make them bad representation of that thing *they* (specificaly) are supposed to be tho.


What is not worth mentioning is probably not worth pursuing.


100%
No matter what, at very very very very least he should tell us what he wants ... i get that in that specific situation he is torn between duty and desire(is that the corect word?) ...
But i would totally appreciate if he would at least turn to us to make a decision with something a bit more concrete.

Like i dunno:
"I know i should save my father, i do want to save my father ... but would he want this, would he even aproove this? Please help me." for one side ...

And something like::
"I allways said i never regreted my decision, i allways said that i stand firm with what i choose and what i did ... but theese last weeks, Myzora twisted my contract so much i can barely even recognize myself anymore. I know i could do so much (good) with this power, im just not sure if the price would be worth it. What do you think?" for another ...

So we at very least see some agency ...

This Wyll we have right now feels like "lol, dont give a shit man, you pick ... we can aswell just throw a coin tho".


With Gale its all about simply showing him that live is worth living ...
Not a bad story, but i dont really think its super relevant for topic about making decisions.

You need to be alive to make those. xD

As for the crown ...
I dunno, i feel like he give up a bit too easily. After all, its still there in Chiontar somewhere ... would be nice to have some hint in epilogue that he is still searching for it, even if just for "safekeeping".


Indeed ...
But to be honest, personaly i would preffer Karlach to be more proactive.

I dunno, but she seems like the type who is like Grog from Critical Role ... or Tasslehoff from Dragonlance ... or i dunno, Anakin from Clone Wars ... the "action now, ask questions never" type.

I would really like if Karlach would simply try to yoink those netherstones from you, and if you wouldnt suceed on that check, she would demand to be turned, rather than offering it.
Bcs after all, in her eyes becoming a mind flayer after all is ... in some twisted way ... a way out.


Oh i dont doubt that in a slightest ...
I think that we would be even able to make educated guesses about wich ending would wich companion preffered at the start of the game for themselves.

My only problem is that if you want to reach that point, you either need to take an active role in their story ... making their decisions for them actively.
Or, you need to deconstruct whole story and retrospectively find out wich decisions you should have made in order to get there ... ergo, if you want your companion to shape into their 'true self', you need to shape your Tav in such way so their 'True self' is fitting them.

And personaly i dont like either of that, thats all.


I bet she would be.
That is the thing with brainwashing, magicaly memory alterning cults ... you will be fitting, you will be happy, you just wouldnt be you.

Again, i think what you mean here is that She wouldnt be happy in the long run, if she would keep all her memories ... wich is probably true ... but that is not how it goes in this group.
Anything that would swey you from them, will be removed ... until you are shaped in their image. But after that, you will be happy, or as happy as person can be in such circumstances.

Or at least, she seem pretty happy to me.


And yet, in some ways, that is who he was allways ment to be.
Ironic, isnt it?


Might be ...
But she can have happy ending that seems fitting for her aswell.


If some kind Moderator will cut theese few posts and move them elsewhere ... i would gladly continue there and leave this one to fall in oblivion of other pages as thousand others before ...

Personaly i dont think this is necessary, but its not my place to judge.

Rag: things have changed a bit: derailing threads and talking about Astarions ending is at the moment not allowed per forum rules, that is, why I told Anska to pm me.

If a mod stumbles in: Would be grat to have the last few posts move over to their own thread, maybe titled Companion motivation (maybe in Story & Characters?).

I don't have time atm to respond in depth and will wait, if this gets cut off to another thread. I don't have a problem, if it stays here personally.

The timeline for the game is longer than a few weeks. Withers implies that the entire adventure took place "In but a dozen tendays," so four months. The cast is also pretty socially isolated before their adventure. It makes sense that they would care about their only friends' opinions, more than people with big support networks would.

RagnarokCzD, I think you are underestimating the decisions that companions other than Wyll can make. Shadowheart can decide to kill Nightsong, if you have low enough approval with her, and don't do enough things to collect "Nightsong points." If you want to argue that it's a bit too easy to get Shadowheart to spare her, then I would actually agree. That, and the decision for her parents are pretty complicated. There's a video that explains it,

Gale doesn't necessarily leave the crown in the Chiontar, he can decide to give it to Mystra (or obviously try to become a god.) We also have an opportunity to let him decide if he wants to make the shadowlantern or cleanse Balthazar's circle (though I think that's fixed and he will always cleanse it if he's told to decide). The variables for his end of game decision are even more complicated than Shadowheart's, and are described in the video Gale's Hidden Point System Explained

There's tons of threads on Reddit about Gale pursuing or not pursuing godhood when the player thought he would do the opposite. The game obfuscates the mechanisms that cause his decisions very well. Wyll is the opposite. I agree with you that the conversation we have with Wyll should be expanded on, so that we know what he wants. If he's paralyzed because of how his first deal with Mizora went, and he doesn't trust his decision making, the game could make that more explicit, and it would be good characterization.

Just briefly because I also do not have much time and want to keep my personal thread-derailment down:

An unreliable narrator does not have to be lying to you, they are simply unreliable because they are limited by their point of view. What Gale tells you about his predicament isn't completely true because Gale himself has made a false assumption about what the orb is. He only learns the truth during his audience with Mystra. Astarion builds Cazador up to be this omnipotent terror, but when you meet him he's a pedantic aristocrat who hides behind his minions and is worried about being found out as a vampire. Caz also didn't send the Gur after him as Astarion believes. What makes him scary is the vampiric compulsion he has over his spawn. Shadowheart only tells you half of her wolf story because that is the only part she remembers at this point. Both her and Lae'zel's reactions to Elminster's visit at the start of act 2 are pretty ironic but steeped in their world views. Finally when Wyll first talks to you about Karlach, he repeats what Mizora has told him about her, which is also not true and makes him unreliable in this case.

@fylimar
I was under the impression that was allways the case, but i will take your word for it.


This here exactly ... is my problem.
This here exactly i call contradiction.

Bcs if her decision depends on my approval rate and on that how many points in certain direction i gave her ... its not her decision ... its mine.

And that is exactly what bothers me.

Honestly the more i talk about it in this topic the more i cant shake the feeling that core (maybe technicaly whole problem) of my problem is that you are changing approovals of your companions, even if they stay in the camp ...
So there is in fact no possible way to keep them ... i dont really know the corect word for this in english, pure? uncontaminated?
I hope you know what i mean.


Nah ... neither bothers me at all.

Its just that, you never know who they really are ...
Shadowheart in party with Tavsshole ... will kill Nightsong ...
Shadowheart in party with Taventleman ... will spare Nightsong ...
Allways.

And that bothers me, bcs just as Wyll who at very least tells you "you pick, i would not" ... every other character is trying to seem like they pick themselves ... but they are not.

I didnt really want to bring this up, but that is exactly why certain people on internet is so crazy about Astarion ...
Bcs he will ALLWAYS be perfect for your Tav ...
Bcs he will ALLWAYS be shaped by your acting ...
Bcs no matter what you do, he will ALLWAYS be reflection of you, even if you tell him "decide yourself".

People didnt find their perfect ... eh, what is male counterpart to waifu? husbando? no matter, just *that* ... they created them themselves.

I cant really count number of argumens i got across the media when this game come out, where people were arguing "see? he picked good option in the end, he was allways kind and gentle, you just didnt understand him" not realizing at all that "he" in fact "picked" nothing.

Maybe that is also one of reasons why this bothers me so much.

When you think about it, what Larian did here was stroke of genius ... still not really sure if pure or evil one to be honest ... they didnt gave us just blank slate as our protagonist, we got whole party of blank slates, in physicaly atractive packages and we filled those pages during the game as we desired.
The result is, by definition, perfect.

Its kinda scary tho ...
But that WOULD be derail from this topic, so just as Fylimar i offer explanation in PM.


In order for illusion of choice to work, you allways need at least two options.


Yeah, seen some of those ...
In most of those posts (i have seen ofc) people dont really see full picture ... its more like "but i told him to *X/Y*" ... in single conversation, basicaly ignoring everyhing else.

I would say that Gale's desire for the crown is best companion story made in this game ...
We all KNOW he wants it, no matter what we tells him, no matter if we are good or evil, no matter how much he likes us ...
How?
Easy ... he keeps talking about it.
Every single conversation with Gale after you find out, he mentions it ... and if you really want him to let go, you need to keep persuating him against the powerhugner ... BUT and this is important, everyone else aswell.

This is great story for me ... Gale really wants it, and if you dont basicaly work fulltime on persuating him otherwise, he will atempt to get it.

That is how i would imagine Shadowheart should persuate becoming Dark Justiciar ...
Astarion becoming Ascendant Vampire (or at very least full one) ...
Karlach geting revenge against Gortash (since curing her heart was cut out ... get it? xD) ...
Wyll saving his father AND broke the contract ...
And Lae'zel serving Vlaakith faithfully.

If everyone would be as dedicated to their goal as Gale is ... damn i would be happy.


Yup.


---

I see ...
I was going with different deffinition.

Glad we cleared that out.

Rest of my reaction is not as important for this topic ... so i hide it, but write it anyway: