your decision to attach this to what they say about themselves at a fairly random point in time
I mean ...
Is there any other way?
Its a nice excuse ... i give you that. But i asumed you realize those characters dont exist outside this story, so logicaly this story is the only time we can observe them.
them being shown as unreliable narrators
Rly?
When?
And more importantly: How?
Tell me single (yes i want that many of them) occasion when any of our companions lie about themselves.
In Shadowheart's case, she says she's Lady Shar's number one fan, but you are shown early on how brittle Shar's sway over her is and how much effort Viconia and Shar have to put in to keep her from discovering things about herself which conflict with her Sharran identity.
Since you dont really know about Viconia existence itself until Act III. ... i have my doubts about "being shown early". O_o
Or maybe we just define "early" differently ... after all, it is just few days adventure ... still this infomation you get at its final act.
Also ...
Maybe im missing something here, but from what i gathered around Shar temple, the only thing Viconia secured was her own place ... i dont really remember single thing Viconia did to keep Shadowheart to learn about her previous self ... on the other hand, i remember her refusing to allow Shadowheart even atempt to become Dark Justiciar, or ascent in rank in any other way ... she even send her on suicide mission, just to get rid of her in the end.
And Shar?
There is no evidence in any intervention at all ... sure, Shadowheart have wiped memory ... wich was done by artefact that is still in the temple. You can easily proove that by fact that Shadowheart is the only companion who cant get stat boost from that mirror.
What else she did? I dont know about anything.
Ergo ...
Contrary is the truth:
She IS Lady Shar number one fan, that fandom(?) is build on lies ofc ... but since Shadowheart dont know that, it doesnt matter really, it is just as strong as it can be.
As for what you would like companion's decision making to be, that's pretty much Gale.
What?
And I know it's wild coming from me but maybe we could get back to Wyll now.
To what exactly?
Is there even anything more to say?
I mean ... dont want to be rude or anything, but i feel like this topic was completed in OP ...
All people can say is "i agree" or "nah, its fine"
This way this topic at least still lives ... its not like we are interupting any ongoing debate here.
:P
---
Shadowheart was never really a Sharran - she cares about the wellbeing of children, animals and innocents too much. She feels bad, if the group attacks the grove.
So?
Those things are not mutualy exclusive.
Shadowheart have beautifully twisted and brainwashed character that turns things on their head just so they fir to her worldview ... have you ever talked to her about Shar? She dont see her as cruel goddess who dont give a split second thought about mortals, she see her as loving and caring mother ...
Shadowheart say herself that Sharans take people memory, not to manipulate them ... that is just propaganda for her ... she believes that the true reason is to help people from pain.
She is basicaly perfect depiction Dark Side of the Force user ... who see all she did as a service for greater good, even if that would mean slaughtering whole classroom of defenceless younglings. If you know what i mean.
That is the sweet irony about her, she is most likely the only Kind Sharran in Faerun.
I believe what you mean here is that she is not "a typical Sharran" ... wich would be true.
But i have seen no indication that she is supposed to be.
Lae'zel is outright benevolent for a githyanki, she is at least open to learn about Faerun and befriends some of the companions, especially Gale, Wyll and Karlach, very quickly. She even shows admiration for some of them early on (Karlach, when recruited, Wyll, when he stands up toMizora and gets changed for example). That is not your typical gith behavior.
Im sory, i have no idea where are you going with this. :-/
I think none of our companions is "typical" ... well anything for that matter.
That doesnt make them bad representation of that thing *they* (specificaly) are supposed to be tho.
Astarion I will leave out, because to not bring another discusiion in here and because of forum roles, but feel free to pm me about that, if you want to hear my take.
What is not worth mentioning is probably not worth pursuing.
Wyll is generally open to councel and takes critic very well. He also offers advice himself, so I think, he would at least listen to your arguments. Which I do like in the game, still he should be the one who tell MIzora, if he is in or out.
100%
No matter what, at very very very very least he should tell us what he wants ... i get that in that specific situation he is torn between duty and desire(is that the corect word?) ...
But i would totally appreciate if he would at least turn to us to make a decision with something a bit more concrete.
Like i dunno:
"I know i should save my father, i do want to save my father ... but would he want this, would he even aproove this? Please help me." for one side ...
And something like::
"I allways said i never regreted my decision, i allways said that i stand firm with what i choose and what i did ... but theese last weeks, Myzora twisted my contract so much i can barely even recognize myself anymore. I know i could do so much (good) with this power, im just not sure if the price would be worth it. What do you think?" for another ...
So we at very least see some agency ...
This Wyll we have right now feels like "lol, dont give a shit man, you pick ... we can aswell just throw a coin tho".
Gale is like Wyll someone, who listens to good arguments and since he relies on you helping him with the Crown and since he is normally teh first one to get approval up, I think, it fits that he would listen to your council.
With Gale its all about simply showing him that live is worth living ...
Not a bad story, but i dont really think its super relevant for topic about making decisions.
You need to be alive to make those. xD
As for the crown ...
I dunno, i feel like he give up a bit too easily. After all, its still there in Chiontar somewhere ... would be nice to have some hint in epilogue that he is still searching for it, even if just for "safekeeping".
With Karlach it's a bit different: She will only listen to you, if you go with her to Avernus or she will listen to Wyll and join him in Avernus, but otherwise, she will choose to die or try out living as a mindflayer.
Indeed ...
But to be honest, personaly i would preffer Karlach to be more proactive.
I dunno, but she seems like the type who is like Grog from Critical Role ... or Tasslehoff from Dragonlance ... or i dunno, Anakin from Clone Wars ... the "action now, ask questions never" type.
I would really like if Karlach would simply try to yoink those netherstones from you, and if you wouldnt suceed on that check, she would demand to be turned, rather than offering it.
Bcs after all, in her eyes becoming a mind flayer after all is ... in some twisted way ... a way out.
I would say all of them have the potential to become their 'true self' according to what is already in the character or become something they might have think they wanted
Oh i dont doubt that in a slightest ...
I think that we would be even able to make educated guesses about wich ending would wich companion preffered at the start of the game for themselves.
My only problem is that if you want to reach that point, you either need to take an active role in their story ... making their decisions for them actively.
Or, you need to deconstruct whole story and retrospectively find out wich decisions you should have made in order to get there ... ergo, if you want your companion to shape into their 'true self', you need to shape your Tav in such way so their 'True self' is fitting them.
And personaly i dont like either of that, thats all.
I bet that Sharran Shadowheart is not happy in the long run, since that is totally against her character.
I bet she would be.
That is the thing with brainwashing, magicaly memory alterning cults ... you will be fitting, you will be happy, you just wouldnt be you.
Again, i think what you mean here is that She wouldnt be happy in the long run, if she would keep all her memories ... wich is probably true ... but that is not how it goes in this group.
Anything that would swey you from them, will be removed ... until you are shaped in their image. But after that, you will be happy, or as happy as person can be in such circumstances.
Or at least, she seem pretty happy to me.Same with Duke Wyll Ravenguard - that is not, who he is and wants to be
And yet, in some ways, that is who he was allways ment to be.
Ironic, isnt it?
Lae'zel on the other hand is doomed
Might be ...
But she can have happy ending that seems fitting for her aswell.
It is an interesting topic, that was brought up, but I do think, it should be its own topic in the story section.
If some kind Moderator will cut theese few posts and move them elsewhere ... i would gladly continue there and leave this one to fall in oblivion of other pages as thousand others before ...
Personaly i dont think this is necessary, but its not my place to judge.
