@fylimar
I was under the impression that was allways the case, but i will take your word for it.
Shadowheart can decide to kill Nightsong, if you have low enough approval with her, and don't do enough things to collect "Nightsong points."
This here exactly ... is my problem.
This here exactly i call contradiction.
Bcs if her decision depends on my approval rate and on that how many points in certain direction i gave her ... its not her decision ... its mine.
And that is exactly what bothers me.
Honestly the more i talk about it in this topic the more i cant shake the feeling that core (maybe technicaly whole problem) of my problem is that you are changing approovals of your companions, even if they stay in the camp ...
So there is in fact no possible way to keep them ... i dont really know the corect word for this in english, pure? uncontaminated?
I hope you know what i mean.
If you want to argue that it's a bit too easy to get Shadowheart to spare her, then I would actually agree. That, and the decision for her parents are pretty complicated.
Nah ... neither bothers me at all.
Its just that, you never know who they really are ...
Shadowheart in party with Tavsshole ... will kill Nightsong ...
Shadowheart in party with Taventleman ... will spare Nightsong ...
Allways.
And that bothers me, bcs just as Wyll who at very least tells you "you pick, i would not" ... every other character is trying to seem like they pick themselves ... but they are not.
I didnt really want to bring this up, but that is exactly why certain people on internet is so crazy about Astarion ...
Bcs he will ALLWAYS be perfect for your Tav ...
Bcs he will ALLWAYS be shaped by your acting ...
Bcs no matter what you do, he will ALLWAYS be reflection of you, even if you tell him "decide yourself".
People didnt find their perfect ... eh, what is male counterpart to waifu? husbando? no matter, just *that* ... they created them themselves.
I cant really count number of argumens i got across the media when this game come out, where people were arguing "see? he picked good option in the end, he was allways kind and gentle, you just didnt understand him" not realizing at all that "he" in fact "picked" nothing.
Maybe that is also one of reasons why this bothers me so much.
When you think about it, what Larian did here was stroke of genius ... still not really sure if pure or evil one to be honest ... they didnt gave us just blank slate as our protagonist, we got whole party of blank slates, in physicaly atractive packages and we filled those pages during the game as we desired.
The result is, by definition, perfect.
Its kinda scary tho ...
But that WOULD be derail from this topic, so just as Fylimar i offer explanation in PM.
Gale doesn't necessarily leave the crown in the Chiontar, he can decide to give it to Mystra (or obviously try to become a god.)
In order for illusion of choice to work, you allways need at least two options.
There's tons of threads on Reddit about Gale pursuing or not pursuing godhood when the player thought he would do the opposite. The game obfuscates the mechanisms that cause his decisions very well.
Yeah, seen some of those ...
In most of those posts (i have seen ofc) people dont really see full picture ... its more like "but i told him to *X/Y*" ... in single conversation, basicaly ignoring everyhing else.
I would say that Gale's desire for the crown is best companion story made in this game ...
We all KNOW he wants it, no matter what we tells him, no matter if we are good or evil, no matter how much he likes us ...
How?
Easy ... he keeps talking about it.
Every single conversation with Gale after you find out, he mentions it ... and if you really want him to let go, you need to keep persuating him against the powerhugner ... BUT and this is important, everyone else aswell.
This is great story for me ... Gale really wants it, and if you dont basicaly work fulltime on persuating him otherwise, he will atempt to get it.
That is how i would imagine Shadowheart should persuate becoming Dark Justiciar ...
Astarion becoming Ascendant Vampire (or at very least full one) ...
Karlach geting revenge against Gortash (since curing her heart was cut out ... get it? xD) ...
Wyll saving his father AND broke the contract ...
And Lae'zel serving Vlaakith faithfully.
If everyone would be as dedicated to their goal as Gale is ... damn i would be happy.
Wyll is the opposite. I agree with you that the conversation we have with Wyll should be expanded on, so that we know what he wants. If he's paralyzed because of how his first deal with Mizora went, and he doesn't trust his decision making, the game could make that more explicit, and it would be good characterization.
Yup.
---
An unreliable narrator does not have to be lying to you they are simply unreliable because they are limited by their point of view.
I see ...
I was going with different deffinition.
Glad we cleared that out.
Rest of my reaction is not as important for this topic ... so i hide it, but write it anyway:
What Gale tells you about his predicament isn't completely true because Gale himself has made a false assumption about what the orb is. He only learns the truth during his audience with Mystra.
I mean ... yeah, he made a misstake, no questions about that ...
But on the other hand, he truthfully and to his knowledge fully explained us the whole situation ... eventualy at least.
Therefore i had no reason to concider him "unreliable" ...
Since there is an important difference between "saying something that is not true" and "lie" ... not sure if that importance translates well to english tho, but its basicaly that you need to know you are giving false information, in order to lie.
My favourite example about this is:
If Pinocchio would say "God exists" his nose wouldnt move ... if he afterwards would say "God dont exists" it wouldnt move either ... bcs he dont know, ergo he is incapable to lie.
Astarion builds Cazador up to be this omnipotent terror, but when you meet him he's a pedantic aristocrat who hides behind his minions and is worried about being found out as a vampire. Caz also didn't send the Gur after him as Astarion believes. What makes him scary is the vampiric compulsion he has over his spawn.
Same basicaly apply here ...
I can see your point here much better, since Astarion's experience with Cazador was clearly and heavily weightened by him being on recieving end of very long, very sharp, and very preice whip ...
On the other hand tho ... that is something we know from, basicaly first time he mentions his old master ...
It could be argued that more than him being unreliable narator, we are unreliable listener ... if we assume every single word from him is 1000% absolute true and he is incapable of misstakes.
Shadowheart only tells you half of her wolf story because that is the only part she remembers at this point.
Same point as abowe ... twice.
No reason to repeat myself i believe.
Both her and Lae'zel's reactions to Elminster's visit at the start of act 2 are pretty ironic but steeped in their world views.
This i honestly never seen in my 2026,5h
So ... sory, no idea.
Finally when Wyll first talks to you about Karlach, he repeats what Mizora has told him about her, which is also not true and makes him unreliable in this case.
This ... is the case, where i totally can see your point.
Wyll is clearly unrealiable, bcs unlike the others, he is facing evidence right at that moment, and yet he repeats his asignment like a zealot. :-/
That is the only one i would agree on 100%.
BUT!
Since we now know that my definition was wrong, its not important anymore.
