Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Wyll should make his own decisions

This is interesting. In my case with the evil DU, Shadowheart still spared Nightsong. The only difference is that I didn't ignore her, and she got her noblestalk. She calmly walked “good” in the “evil” group (calmly in the sense that I didn't notice any particularly annoying moralizing on her part), saved her parents (simply because I visited all the right places with her in Act 3 and she got her memories). I felt like her decisions depended on how many “memory bricks” she could gather. But basically, the video posted by SteelTempest explains everything.


I think so too. Wyll really wants to have a reputation as a “good guy”, you can see it in his banters and remarks, he will say nasty things where it is “allowed” in his society. Mizora may have also used this trope in her manipulation - Wyll can't appear to be “not a hero”. He's very worried about the horns, why? Probably because it might cause other “heroes” to accidentally mistake him for a “bad guy”. Of course he wants to break his contract with Mizora (it would be weird if he wanted otherwise), but if he voices it, he'll stop seeming like a “hero”. And if it's voiced by Tav - that's fine, he just wasn't allowed to sacrifice himself. But he will still sacrifice if Tav voices it as a necessity, playing on Wyll's “goodness” as Mizora did in her time. Perhaps he will convince himself that it is the right thing to do. Wyll decided not to make a decision. And his decision doesn't affect anything - if the player wants to do well for this character, they will easily do it, after Mizora's refusal it's only worth looking in the diary, and it's immediately clear that Ravengard can be saved. The choice here doesn't even make plot sense.


+1

That was in BG2. It was in BG1. Larian has every chance to do exactly that with their next game, which they will do in their own setting, without any outside influence. I would really like to see realism in the game, logical consequences of certain actions, living characters not limited by narrow alignments. Characters can change their opinions, the influence of Tav, of course, has a place, but it should depend on many factors, realistic factors, the main thing - do not try to make of the main character a kind of “teacher of life”.


I want to clarify a bit on this issue, I'll try not to break the rules, it's just that there is one fact in the game - Astarion is unable to decide his own fate, against Tav's wishes, due to purely physical limitations. Astarion desperately asks for help, there is a choice to help him or not help him, but he can't slice the scars on Cazador without Tav's help. Even in the scars scene, Tav draws the symbols in the sand rather than on paper, though paper would be much more realistic, and there's plenty of that paper in the inventory. But, in that case, Astarion would have been able to save and memorize the symbols, which would have prevented him from depending on Tav's decision. We'll never know if Tav would have been able to convince him if Astarion hadn't been dependent on Tav's help and could have completely decided his fate on his own. A failed die roll and that's it, Astarion will leave the group if you don't help him. (“I would say good luck out there, but honestly? I hope you die screaming.”) Also, Astarion has a line: “And I want to live a full life! Not some half existence, hiding in the shadows for the rest of eternity.” I prefer logic and facts, and logic tells me that there are more important things in life than “morality” and notions of good/evil and people in reality are more often guided by those more important things - hunger (“The pain from the hunger alone - there's nothing like it. ” © Astarion) has always been and will always be a far more significant motivator than morality. But, since, most players are people who have never experienced hunger, the meaning of the line: “I... I can't feel it. That ache in my stomach, that hunger - it's gone.”, tends to slip away and other narratives come to the fore. My opinion - this Persuasion is not to change Astarion's mind, but to convince Astarion that Tav loves him (or is a friend) and sees him as “good”. Astarion is well aware that if Tav doesn't help him, there's nothing he can do about it, and Tav convinces him of their motives, that it's not out of malice or stupid paladin principles that they're denying him the opportunity to have a fulfilling life, that they see him as a good man. It's a conviction to accept this cruel reality as it is in this case. Astarion can't be told “decide for yourself”, he's already made up his mind, you can help him or not help him, and the choice he makes (in the case where the player didn't help) is between acceptance and anger and hatred.

“Husbando” is a pretty good point, the character does turn out to be very relatable and his personal charm is a surprising compensator for the fact that Larian made the story far from perfect. The reflection of me should have been my Tav/DU ( this is what she should be, not a “narrative tool”, in an RPG there should be roleplay and personally I have far more complaints about that aspect than even the independence of the companions) and LI is someone I relate to as a person I love. But he's a separate person, I never saw LI as a projection of myself. But Astarion chose everything, he talks about it, from the moment he learns of this opportunity, he chose what many in his shoes would have chosen. It's just that if you don't give such importance to alignments, what difference does it make who is “good” and who is “evil”, they are just convenient stamps that we used to use in DnD and RPGs, but these definitions can never reflect the full range of character manifestations of a living person, and if you look at it from the point of view of realism, you can see the situation differently. Ask any person what they would prefer - to be rich and healthy but judged by others (like “evil”) or poor and sick but “pure” in other people's eyes - most of them will answer “ pure”, because nothing really depends on this answer, and you will never know what the percentage of “evil” and “good” really is, you can only understand what percentage does not care about other people's opinion and they certainly answered honestly.


Not always, to be honest. I actually didn't talk him out of it at all, and Gale just gave the crown to Mystra in the epilogue. On my own, I didn't have any lines to convince him to take the crown for himself. There are necessary conditions that need to be met in order for Gale to take that Crown without romance. For me, he is just perceived as a character hesitant, has in his character both ambitious aspirations - the desire to comprehend all spheres of magic and become a God, and the desire for a quiet peaceful life, and he satisfies one of these aspirations, and the other aspiration will be forced to “move”. And he feels good in both cases.

If something, I'm not against Wyll making an independent decision, I don't care what he does, if his fans want it, let him make it.