Originally Posted by Marielle
Originally Posted by fylimar
They don't really have an agenda in this scenario. Astarion and Minthara are no more special than any other character honestly. I'm talking about being forced to change, because they used tadpoles. If you don't give Astarion or Minthara tadpoles, then it is different. But I mainly use those two as tadpole slurpers, because I myself don't want to use them.

I meant that characters have their own personalities and if Orpheus forces someone to become illithid, it doesn't make them an obedient zombie, the illithid retains their personality (we see this in the example of Karlach, who changed a bit, but retained many aspects of her personality). Those who have been forcibly made illithid will naturally take revenge, because all the bad things have already happened and they have nothing to lose (rather the opposite, becoming an Absolute will be better than just being an illithid) or they themselves will want to take more power. But after thinking about it, I think it doesn't make sense for another reason - the number of tadpoles is not important, one tadpole is enough for Orpheus to trigger ceremorphosis. One tadpole already triggers full ceremorphosis, Orpheus (in the prism) has blocked signals from the Elder Brain before, all he has to do is stop doing that with any companion or Tav, it doesn't matter how many tadpoles they have in their head, ten or one.

In the scenario of the game, everything is logical and correct - Orpheus turns to the leader of the group. Even if, he could force anyone to change, but he is well aware of the risks. Only someone who volunteers for this sacrifice can be trusted to do so. A lot depends on the character who becomes an illithid, they will have the Crown of Karsus in their hands. Tav can become an Illithid and take over the Brain without any problems, but a companion can't? If Tav refuses (and Tav represents the whole group in this case), and can also talk Karlach out of doing it, then Orpheus has to take over. If Orpheus were a character capable of such a not only cruel but also extremely reckless and stupid (to achieve his goal, and his goal is to stop the Grand Design, it's more important to him than his own life) act, as forcibly changing someone, then among other things, Tav should have had the option to attack him and try to kill him, to prevent him from doing so.

But there could be more volunteers, not just Karlach. Lae'zel, too, could probably offer herself instead of Prince Orpheus, she's motivated to do so. And someone like Wyll or Minsc, Tav could try to persuade (persuading, even if manipulative, is not the same as forcing, the persuaded have agreed to it, accepted it as the right option, and will act as they are required to - to save the world, like Karlach, not destroy it, as the forcibly changed will do).

I think we should remember that Orpheus is a gith and cruel. I personally prefer his route to Empy, but both are not acting out of the goodness of their heart.
And I would find it interesting to attack him, followed of course by an instant game over, since Orpheus power was the only thing, stopping the brain from making the group part of the Grand Design again.

My point was, that there should be stakes and consequences to use the tadpoles - either for Tav/Durge or a companion using the tadpoles. As of now, you only have a consequence, when you choose a specific evil path and botch a dice roll ( though a very high one). I think the tadpoles should be a high risk and high reward thing in general. You should be less able to resist the more tadpoles you consume, because you become more illithid the more you take in and use the power. Minthara is pretty open minded about it in general and doesn't mind the physical changes at all when she consumed the astral tadpole.

And of course a character changed by Orpheus or Empy is not a zombie, but they probably know, that they risk getting controlled by the brain, if they kill the only person, who has the power to prevent that. And even though, not all companions are as smart as Gale or as knowledgeable about illithids as Lae'zel, but by that time, they know the dangers and the full story of the protection.


"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."

Doctor Who