Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Patch 8 shadowblade

Shadowblade didn’t really need the buff it’s getting but at the very least it should still require concentration even if keeping the duration infinite until long rest, no concentration needed is a massive buff it didn’t really need.



Meanwhile flame blade should receive the same buffs shadowblade gets if any of the buffs for shadowblade are staying in, of the two flame blade is the one that underperforms normally and needs buffs to help it if either of them do. Flame blade should also be on the sorcerer and Wizard spell lists as well.

I agree as it stands without concentration Shadowblade removes build variety as now every gish build will rush this spell and won't use anything else, conventional weapons are immediately made useless. Shadowblade is already powerful enough by allowing it to function with booming blade, allowing other concentration spells on-top plus scaling and other riders makes it so powerful that any melee martial class should be taking caster levels just to pick it up.

I agree that it's too strong, but my take is that the problem is power spikes.

At level 3, it provides a massive spike in power, especially to warlocks and Shadow Magic sorcerers. Why? The combination of its high damage(2d8 for a short sword compared to say 1d12 for a greataxe) and the Advantage it gains against obscured targets, which warlocks(Devil's Sight) and Shadow Magic sorcerers(Eyes of the Dark) are uniquely equipped to take advantage of.

Another issue is that the Resonance Stone and upcasting make it apocalyptically powerful at the end of act 2. Upcasting it to 5th/6th level makes its damage a silly 4d8, and the Resonance Stone further doubles that.


I would solve these issues with a few changes.

1:Make Shadow Blade a 4th or even 5th level spell.
2: Remove benefits from upcasting Shadow Blade, keep its damage fixed.
3: Make it subclass features of Arcane Trickster and Eldritch Knight so they still gain it.

This way, it would be acquired at roughly the same time as the ring and not eclipse everything. Swinging a 2d8 psychic weapon at Advantage and doubling it's damage is still a lot power for little effort.


I see it being added to spell lists and the concentration requirement being removed as Larian wanting it to be used more, but I do think they overcorrected a bit. (I submitted a feedback ticket with all this verbatim already)

Resonance stone might need a nerf, 1d8 damage die bonus instead of vulnerable? or add a saving throw DC13 successful save grants entity immunity to the effect for LR? or both?

Alternative maybe change shadow blade damage type to necrotic damage?

Concentration definitely still needs to be a requirement for this spell it too powerful for it to not have it.

For the spell not to have a concentration requirement it need to be reduced significantly in power, no upcasting, and no advantage on dim light targets.

I don't see a problem with the Resonance Stone itself, I just think doubling 4d8 is a bit much. Remember, Steeped in Bliss also has a substantial downside, it's not just a straight buff.



Why is it that no one uses Shadow Blade Ring? Having to maintain concentration for your melee weapon is a BIG ask. Paralyzed? Knocked off your feet? Put to sleep? Slip on ice or grease? A dog farted too hard in your general direction? Congratulations! You've lost your weapon for the rest of the battle at minimum!

Even if SBR had a per turn cooldown, it'd remain just as frustrating because not only would you be targeted because of concentration, you'd also be putting yourself in harm's way by being in melee range, magnifying the difficulty of maintaining concentration. In that situation, you'd just take turns recasting SBR and losing concentration, and occasionally getting in a hit.

The concentration requirement is just too big of an ask. It promises a cycle of frustration with Shadow Blade that the new version gets to bypass completely.

No upcasting? I already said it, so yes I agree with it, for previously stated reasons.

No advantage? Meh, it wouldn't really make noteworthy difference IMO. If attacking from within a cloud, you pretty much always have advantage either. Distinction without a difference.

Necrotic Shadow Blade? Why bother?

My issue with shadowblade as it stands is the spell can be combined with another spell of equal or greater power that DOES require concentration that by itself is extremely powerful, coupled with the stone its game breaking.

Shadowblade with concentration would require risk vs. reward using the spell would still be powerful just not overwhelming so.

The duration would still last until LR just with the concentration component, any character using this spell should have a way of protecting their concentration, have a conventional weapon as backup if concentration drops, or just cast the spell again as a bonus action on the next turn.

My suggestion of necrotic was purely so it wouldn't get a benefit from the resonance stones psychic vulnerability, it could just as easily be any other damage type force damage could work just call the spell forceblade.

No, it's not. Is using Ice Wall against wet enemies gamebreaking? How about Chain Lightning? Surely Bhaalist Armor must be with potential damage easily exceeding 200 for a single hit. No, I don't think any of those are gamebreaking. Nor do I think Resonance Stone and Shadow Blade are.

Again, I do think upcasted Shadow Blade is a bit much, and I could possibly be persuaded that 2d8 is a little strong, but the fact remains that no one uses Shadow Blade Ring because the concentration requirement is too big of an ask for a melee weapon. I wouldn't care if it was 100d100 base damage, concentration to keep a weapon is a terrible idea in the context of BG3. It would not be worth the frustration. Hence, Larian removing it from the new version.



I wouldn't consider the privilege of having a melee weapon a worthy reward.


You're either pregnant or not, there is no middle ground. Guard rails for concentration is just a lack of concentration requirements with extra steps.



It's fine. I'd honestly like to have pure elemental weapons of all kinds in the game. I don't think it's(changing the element of Shadow Blade) necessary, either. Again, Steeped in Bliss has a significant penalty that cannot be decoupled from it's boon.



Again, I think the real issues with Shadow Blade are the power spikes at level 3 and the combination of upcasting with the Resonance Stone. If it requires a higher level and can't be upcast, those issues go away.

Based on the feedback from the previous replies, it seems there are a few simple options:

1. Make it a concentration spell that lasts until long rest. That way it's not so much of a free power up and there's more cost to it, since it can be lost and needed to be cast again, plus not allowing other concentration spells at the same time.

2. Eliminate concentration completely. But make it a 10 turn spell as it works in 5e. That way it stays in line as a combat spell to be used per combat encounter, instead of working for every battle one may encounter in any single in-game day. But at the same time making it not be so easy to lose because of losing concentration on it.

3. Maybe make the spell add a condition that makes one unable to cast concentration spells while Shadowblade is active? Not unlike Lethargic.



Options I disagree with:

1. Taking away its upcast options. It works that way out of the box in 5e. Taking that away feels like it hurts a lot of player liked builds. Sounds like taking away people's fun. Even with the additional damage from the Stone. If the stone makes it too broken, then time limits need to be placed on the spell, in terms of turn limits (or even concentration I suppose, though now we'd be starting to go in circles).

2. Changing its damage type or taking away its dim light advantage effects. Those are all out of the box effects. A lot of people are to used to the spell already working that way

3. Changing it from an 2nd level spell to a minimum 3rd or 4th level spells. For many of the same reasons that were previously stated.


As for argument against concentration for any melee weapon, Shadowblade would not be the only instance of a melee range effect at risk of concentration. Spirit guardians is at the same type of risk due to the concentration and melee range, but can still be made viable through the right steps, as Cachat says. Warcaster Feat, Elixir of Peerless focus, simple high Constitution Stat. There's a few different ways to help maintain concentration for a spell like that. That's part of the fun, figuring out a strategy to make a cool idea work.

I will say though, being able to combine shadow blade with any other concentration Spell does sound very potentially game breaking.


Those are just my thoughts on the subject though. Seems like people feel very differently on it. We'll see what the Larian Team thinks and what their final solution for this ends up being. In the end, it won't be possible to completely please everyone. Just as long as the Spell ends up being as balanced as can be, while still making it a viable option for people to have fun with.

(Post preview wasn't working for this reply, I apologize for any mistakes.)

Originally Posted by Ewind

Based on the feedback from the previous replies, it seems there are a few simple options:

1. Make it a concentration spell that lasts until long rest. That way it's not so much of a free power up and there's more cost to it, since it can be lost and needed to be cast again, plus not allowing other concentration spells at the same time.

((text moved for structure and coherence purposes))

As for argument against concentration for any melee weapon, Shadowblade would not be the only instance of a melee range effect at risk of concentration. Spirit guardians is at the same type of risk due to the concentration and melee range, but can still be made viable through the right steps, as Cachat says. Warcaster Feat, Elixir of Peerless focus, simple high Constitution Stat. There's a few different ways to help maintain concentration for a spell like that. That's part of the fun, figuring out a strategy to make a cool idea work.

I will say though, being able to combine shadow blade with any other concentration Spell does sound very potentially game breaking.

I applaud the structure of your argument, but I disagree with the logic of it. Spirit Guardians isn't a melee weapon. If you recast it, you can still attack with it(even against multiple enemies) without spending further actions. You can use it on top of melee attacks, even. Recasting Shadow Blade would eat an action, and requires another action to actually use. Keeping the concentration requirement would put Shadow Blade into the same boat as Flame Blade: a novelty no one actually uses in BG3.

If you don't believe my "no one ever uses..." argument, try running a Flame Blade build. Even if you build for concentration, you're still going to run into the frustration of losing your weapon and having to blow an entire action to get it back, and you may even lose it again before you get the chance to use it! You will get sick of the recasting cycle and abandon the build. Flame Blade and Shadow Blade Ring builds are powerful, but they remain novelties ibstead of mainstays within BG3.

Allow me to correct myself. All this time, I had forgotten the spell used a BONUS ACTION, not an action. Dang it lol. I need to give the concentration parts of my argument further thought. While this clearly changes things with regards to my argument around concentration, I think my concerns about power spikes remain valid.



I like this idea.

However, it does not address my concern of the power spike that specifically Shadow Magic sorcerers and warlocks currently receive. Having a 2d8 weapon at level 3 is already quite good, but unlike wizards, Shadow Magic sorcerers and warlocks gain an additional benefit(Eyes of the Dark and Devil's Sight) that grants them much greater power because they can use their class features to see in Darkness, allowing them to attack at advantage with their 2d8 weapon. Having both a 2d8 weapon and being able to swing it at advantage willy nilly is a bit much for character level 3, I think.


This would reduce the effects of the level 3 power spike I'm concerned with, but raises another hypothetical issue for Shadow Magic sorcerers and warlocks: it makes them unable to use the Shadow Blade/Darkness combo by themselves. This would make Shadow Blade much less practical than simply casting ranged spells from Darkness, because now they would be reliant on a teammate to wield cast Darkness while they are unavle to concentrate on top of having to close the gap to do a melee attack. As well, with the way Eyes of the Dark currently works, a Shadow Magic sorcerer would not have the Darkness immunity if they were wielding Shadow Blade. I think this would be particularly unfair to Shadow Magic sorcerers.



And I could say time limits and concentration are "taking away people's fun", too. It's an extremely poor argument because it is simultaneously both all-encompassing and all-excluding, I can't cite the name of whichever rhetorical device it is, but it is an extremely poor argument.

((Edit: Unfalsifiable. Couldn't think of the word. "Taking away people's fun" is an unfalsifiable argument. Arguments of this type cannot be proven or disproven, and have no place in any good faith discussion.))

Similar is the argument comparing BG3 to 5E. As many things as they share, they also divurge quite a bit. Saying BG3 should be like 5E broadens the scope of argument with irrelevant things. A video game is never going to be tabletop. Too many irrelevant variables. It's like opening a square can of worms and calling it a round nail because you have a hammer and everything you see is a really bad mixed metaphor, except the mixed metaphor is actually quite accurate.


My issue with upcasting Shadow Blade and the Resonance Stone are that it provides too much of a power spike for a melee weapon when the two are used in concert. Giving it a fixed base damage would solve that. In the context of BG3. 4d8*2 is really good for a melee weapon. I think 2d8*2 is very reasonable, and it would fall in line with the damage provided by the ring version.



Is this more a game mechanics or personal preferences thing? I don't see how increasing the minimum level of the spell could be bad from a game mechanics standpoint.


In conclusion, I do like the idea of a turn limit to Shadow Blade, but a turn limit does not succeed at addressing my issue of power spikes at character level 3 and character level 9. Increasing the spell level and removing benefits from upcasting, however, does. I feel that combining the three nerfs would be a vit much, but from a game mechanics standpoint I think it'd be reasonable.

((Edit: I'm saying character level 9 here because that is when the 5th level spells are available and the level players can generally expect to be when acquiring the Resonance Stone. If anyone wants me to expand on any of my arguments, feel free to ask. I don't mind elaborating or clarifying.))