Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Companions: how have your views on them changed from first impressions?

We'll have to agree to disagree with regard to both.

Gale saw all the Weave had to offer and felt he wasn't good enough. Imposter syndrome next to a god. Him wanting to be a better wizard (have more magical power) is never the issue, the way he tries to get there quickly is. He is too confident in his own abilities and it tends to backfire when he doesn't prudently prepare things. High Int, low Wis is a running theme in all his stories, and it's why he ended up with the Orb too. I also feel that equating experiencing the Weave or Gale's eternal curiosity with "just wanting power" and turning this into his driving motivation on top of it, is an oversimplification.

As for Wyll, when he is torn between saving himself and his father in act 3, the basis of his dilemma is that he believes that he needs Mizora to save his father. When you tell him that you'll find and rescue Ulder without Mizora's help, he thinks it's futil. Looking back to his original dilemma, he could have also opted for alarming the city guard instead of taking the pact and trying to take on the cultists on his own. But being the conartist that she is, Mizora made him belief her help was crucial both times.

But, like I said, we can agree to disagree.

Except none of that is true.

He didn't see all the Weave had to offer. That's literally the point. Mystra was keeping part of the weave away from mortals due to it being hilariously unsafe for them.

Gale wanted to access this part of the weave. This is the reason for him and Mystra falling out and why Gale went to go and get the Orb to return it to her as a gift to make nice again.

He outright states this in Act 1 upon him revealing the Orb to you (Rather, as a preamble to revealing the Orb) either after giving him 3 magic items or by bringing Elminster to see him.


Except this isn't about needing the "Power" from the pact. This is about Mizora giving him an offer; whereby Wyll gets locked into an eternal pact with Mizora in exchange for the information about his father's location.

Wyll is perfectly capable without the pact. As I mentioned, he states not wanting to be in the pact in Act 1 and is annoyed at the pact still persisting for some time after it is agreed for it to end in Act 2.

In fact, this is literally the reason why the Act 3 "Dilemma" is even a dilemma. He doesn't WANT to be in a pact with Mizora because he doesn't NEED to be.

I don't think this is the thread for this but, Gale asked and pleaded with Mystra to show him more (like, let him read the books and not just show him that there's a library) and she told him to be content. He got the book to bribe her, the orb ate Gale's magic and she cut their connection before it could feed from the Weave. The radio silence was because he had gotten dangerous to her. She explains this in act 3, although I am not sure if she goes into this detail in every version. I don't know of dialogue in which they mention having a falling out previous to this.

The timeline isn't the motivation though, which I'd say is that he feels insignificant as a mere human wizard. This sense that he feels like his life can only have meaning if he does something grand - either explode and save the day or get godlike powers - is present in basically all of his conversations that deal with the orb. So no, I wouldn't say that he just wants power like a cartoon villain, he feels he needs power with a capital p - be it that of a god or an explosion - for him to be a meaningful influence on the world, ordinary brilliant wizard doesn't cut it. And it's the same feeling of insignificance that made him ask for Mystra's secrets in the first place. I mean, even his bliss isn't to be powerful, it's to be wise, which translates into his story as that he needs to learn about the true nature of his orb in order to have any kind of future. I hope that explains my point of view well enough and we can let it rest now. Not that I wouldn't like to discuss this further. Gale's relationship with power is super interesting. I just really don't want to be the culprit of thread-derailment again.

As for Wyll, I might have to do his act 1 dialogue again, but I don't recall that he states that he wants to be free of Mizora. The player suggests it to him and he agrees, in act 2 it's again the player who starts to initiate breaking his pact. To me he also sounds mostly annoyed that she's toying with him again at this point. During the party conversation when Karlach is dead he brings it up himself that he cannot be the hero he wants to be as long as he is under Mizora's control. He sounded like he didn't have a big problem with his pact before because until this point he didn't think that Mizora could use him against innocents - at least not big enough to actively try to get himself out of it. Her treating him badly is tolerable for a good cause, her sullying his integrity is where he apparently draws the line. I also don't think that he especially wants to be a warlock. It's more that whenever Mizora pushes some urgency on him, his convictions falter.

Yes, you are right about Gale. We didn't see the full consequences, but I think, I remember, that you can send him away, similar to Astarion after bite night.

I agree about the bite night being really stupid. In EA you had a chance in one of his cover up scenes ( I think, it was the boar) to catch him lying and address that. He then confessed to be a vampire spawn. And I think, if you make it soon enough to the Underdark, he still confesses it without the bite night. I haven't managed that yet, but I really want to try it.
The bite night is so risky from his perspective, that I don't get it from a logical POV. I would have preferred, that he just told my character after we find enough clues and his approval was raised a bit. Maybe choosing the kind option in first dialogue ( 'I sleep better for that', when he offers to stay awake and guard the camp for example or telling him about the tadpole and offer a spot in your party, even if he attacked you). If you want the bite scene playing out, you could offer afterwards. It would be more natural.

Shadowheart is complicated for me: she worships the most evil goddess in the realm ( and there is not much worse, than just end everything to have a great big nothing), she would be killed on sight by most people in the realm for that and she knows that and is a) not stupid and b) on an undercover mission and still is decked from head to toe in Shar symbols. I mean ... that makes zero sense. Then she is as bad at hiding her goddess as a 3 year old is in hiding, that they raided the cookie jar. She makes so many comments that point in less than wholesome directions, that in all reality she is not at all trustworthy. Combine that with her personality being mellowed down so much and I lost a lot of interest in her. We already have Karlach and Wyll as the friendly and outgoing ones and it fits both of their characters well, I would have preferred to have the Sharran in the group more on the guard.

I might one day play as Shadowheart to give her back a bit of her edgyness. It's funny, coming from me, because I normally don't like that trope: I totally don't care about Morrigan in DA or Yennefer in Witcher, but I think it was well done with Shadowheart in early access. I even liked her look more in EA. I still use that face for my half elf bard, that I made for a DnD campaign. It was attractive, but had more character imo.

I have a recollection of Wyll answering Tav that "getting out of the pact" has been on his mind every day, but he could not think of any way to do so.

Thanks Ido, I'll be at the spot again soon and pay attention to it. Wyll might be the character with whose dialogue I have toyed the least too because many of his dialogue options are so rude.


I feel it makes sense in his origin, where he has a nightmare about Cazador and his rules. Upon waking Astarion realises that he is no longer bound by them and biting a companion ( or deciding against it) is framed as proofing his autonomy to himself. It does not translate completely to him as a companion but maybe this background makes it a little more relatable.

That makes more sense, but still, he could just go after a goblin

Probably would have been wiser, but I also think that the game does not always try to be completely realistic or serious and leans into tropes at times. Depending on your taste this might work or be completely off-putting. For example the way the act 1 Durge scene switched from horror to silly comedy didn't work for me at all and felt very disappointing, others like it. Bite-night also feels pretty tropey to me in the way it leans into the whole sexy vampire bite fantasy, it's never really presented as a dangerous situation. For me it works when Astarion gets a mouth full of bile and is either treated like a misbehaving cat or like an annoying roommate who becomes the victim of his own prank. It's funny and establishes a dynamic between both characters. Of course turning Astarion's hunger into a bit of a joke or a sexy thing undermines how you are later on supposed to be very scared of vampires and both his hunger as well as the vampire simping become serious topics. Astarion being part tragic and part comedic relief is a bit hit or miss - in my opinion.

No comments on Shadowheart - but being bitchy in her origin is very enjoyable. Do recommend.

I've always been bothered by the logic of that scene. It's like the grove makes everyone dumb just for the scne, you know? Lae'zel is dumb for interrogating and threatening a dude out in the open while surrounded by two groups that are on edge and primed for violence after the goblin attack. The druids would be pissy because of some random space frog lady stirring up trouble in their grove. The Elturel survivors have been through enough together and experienced enough prejudice that a threat to one of them should be a threat to all of them. But no, Lae'zel stirs up trouble in hostile territory, the druids are 'nunna my business' and the other Elturel survivors lose solidarity. Maybe Zorru just peed in Octa's gruel or something. (Or it's just how the game is written, but I like my version better.)


Something tells me you're not alone in changing Shadowheart's class.

When I did a Shadowheart avatar campaign, I tolerated trickery cleric until reaching the major turning point in her story, and decided to make her an open hand monk instead to have her character growth be represented in gameplay. No more goddesses messing with her life, she gets to put her fate into her own hands.

Of course I COULD just learn to use trickery cleric, but where's the fun in that XD


Some additional Astarion spoilers are below, based on Trantion's takes.




Yeah, that sounds more my speed. I do think that would cause more people to miss out based on the reception Lae'zel and Minthara have, but that would definitely be more my speed.



Oooo, I like that. Tons better than "oh my dad went pyscho cause I died for some reason, now don't ever think about that again."



New headcanon: ranger Wyll founds the Sword Coast Eagle Scouts after escaping his pact. (Durge helps Karlach in Avernus, in my headcanon.)

This is the exchange that I was referring to.