Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion [END SPOILS WARNING] Addressing Karlach (PLEASE PUT SPOILERS IN TAGS)

How much time? We can only hold out hope for so long. The only possibility of anything I've seen that they might do something more has been fan-speculation, without a single official word from Larian themselves. It's hard to get my hopes up in that circumstance.

It's a great game, a fantastic game, and I want more games like this to be made; queer-friendly, well-made games that AREN'T microtransaction simulators. I feel it deserves all the success and praise it gets. But I can't continue playing it. It's not worth investing my time and effort into if this is how they intend to leave things. And I can't forgive them for that.

Well considering how hard we crashed and burned with this patch's wording, I'd say it's a smart thing not to get your hopes too high up, period. But not to give up either, considering that the interest has to be there if they are to follow through on it. We gotta keep a moderate amount of hope.

That being said, from my understanding, we can keep that up at the very least until some sort of a Definitive Edition is released. I've heard it took a year for the previous game, I imagine it will be longer for this one, considering the scale.

If we get anything before that - great, if we get something later - also great, but I don't think we are to expect the changes that we want (a full questline that lets us actually coherently follow through on leads and hopefully change things) anytime soon-soon. It's a considerable amount of work, and if they decide to do it - then we don't want it to be rushed (again).

What I'm saying is it's waaay too early to lose hope, but also it's better to be pleasantly surprised than put all our hopes on every new patch and get disappointed every time. We'll all just burn out. (Which. Ironic.)

P.S. And I don't think they will comment on any of that in advance, from what I've heard Larian isn't much for announcing stuff until it's right around the corner.

In my (rather limited) experience with Larian, they rarely give official word on what they're doing and tend to play things pretty close to the chest. I mean for the first 2 patches we didn't even know what they were for until 2 days prior to release. If you want my (totally speculative) opinion, it was 11 months between D:OS2's release and its definitive edition. Now D:OS2 was in far rougher shape than BG3 is when it first released so I can't imagine the relatively small touch ups they need to do to Act 3 and the endings will take almost a full year, but let's be conservative and assume 11 months as the worst case scenario. Once again, totally speculative opinion, but I honestly have a hard time seeing it take that long, Swen already said they're calling VA's back into the studio, and it's not like they have to completely rewrite the last 2 acts like they had to do for D:OS2. I would wager we have to wait a few months, which I am more than comfortable waiting for if it means we get more sweet sweet Karlach content.

Another thing to consider is that D:OS2 sold 7 million copies over its entire development life cycle. BG3 hit 7 million copies in its FIRST MONTH, and it hasn't even come out on consoles yet. They have way more to work with than they did last time.

I specifically registered on the forum and will go register on reddit to contribute a little to the discussions. I was hoping that someone just like me was as disappointed with Karlach's ending and I was hoping those people would get together and ask the developers to add a decent ending for her. This game is a Masterpiece and thanks to EVERYONE who was involved in its development. Karlach is my favorite character who is impossible not to empathize with.. I searched 1000's of notes and options on how to save her and even though I found various clues I couldn't fix her heart. I was lucky enough to get through the game after the new ending where she goes to Avernus with me. But the action of the story takes place in a magical world where everything is possible, but it's impossible to fix one broken heart when everywhere you see clues on how to fix it. It feels like the developers didn't have time to finish these story quests. I realize the game is incredibly huge and gorgeous, I'm not asking now, but let me know you'll finish this story quest. Do it at least as DLC, do it for any money, I'll pay for it). Regarding everyone taking the discussion here - don't insult the developers, however they have done a great job. We just need to grow this discussion to be heard. I think many of the Larian team agree with everything we are discussing here.

Huge request - don't whine, we have one goal and in it we need consistency and respect for those who made this game. It takes a lot of time to make one big patch and even so Larian are surprising with their speed. And imagine how much time it takes to finalize the story.

A little off topic, but in the new ending I was confused about her smoking a cigar. Did she ever say she smokes or does she have some sort of habit like that? I feel like that weird moment was just inserted for the sake of "coolness."

And if the designers of the Larian team happen to be reading this post. Please make official illustrations featuring her. She's one of the main characters.

Ive seen The New Karlach ending. Its certainly a massive improvement. Personally Im satisfied with it. Id rather see more effort into The other romances/endings and epilogues. The Laezel one certainly felt a bit lacking at The ending. Both in choice and tone.

Id rather see their efforts in restoring Minthara Romance. Re add Jaheira fling. Fix Gortash cinematics if doing Odin first. Fix Emperor inconsistencies. More reactivity from companions in Act 3 etc etc.

I'd rather see the entirety of Act III finished, including the good and logical ending Karlach actually deserves, as it should've been on release. I would have gladly waited another year, or however many would've been necessary, for the game to be released finished and complete.

And with all due respect (I'm honestly not being combative although I know this may sound harsh), expressing valid criticism around unfinished/rushed aspects of the game isn't whining. There is nothing but respect and love for this game throughout the entire thread, I think it is precisely the reason why we're all here - I think I can safely say (and I apologise for speaking for others if this is not the case) that this game has touched all of us in ways few others have, and all of our complaints are expressed simply because we want to see Larian treat it the way this unfinished work of art deserves to be treated.

As a final edit, I, too, am of the opinion that Larian deserve full credit for bringing this absolutely wondrous experience to life! The first Act and the second (save for some... rough edges here and there) are pure, unbridled brilliance. Act III deserves to be the same.

What makes it satisfactory, if I may ask? Maybe I could learn something from your point of view.

I also made an account just to post on this thread and share my voice with everyone else.

Just my opinion:

I personally enjoyed the game. Larian did a fantastic job and I am really looking forward to the patches and further work they’ll be putting into it.

I am happy they extended an epilogue for Karlach; it brought a form of closure to that specific epilogue. While I am thankful for that addition I still sit in the camp of wishing there was an option for a more (in my eyes) positive outcome. While each current outcome can be debated as “positive”, I hold to the belief that all current outcomes are not.

The hope of a positive outcome is what drove me to keep Karlach as a party member and pursue any and all areas looking for a solution. The abruptness of “completing” the side quest threw me a bit and left a sour taste in the mouth. While I can respect the existential theme I feel is behind her character, provoking thoughts of acceptance and embracing the present, I still feel a ball was dropped in the sense of the importance of how hope can push you above and beyond and even ultimately resulting in an outcome against all odds.

Continuing with my theme of hope, I hope Larian does find a way to include, through choice and challenge, an additional outcome that fits into what I feel most people on this thread desire: a positive outcome.

Well, I strongly disagree. I can't be satisfied with Karlach's new ending no matter how much I try to be. And why are you making it sound as if they have to do one or the other? They have to fix all these other things so this should be all that they do for Karlach's ending? I can't accept that.

Not trying to derail the conversation, and if the mods want to strike this post down for being off topic I accept that, but considering I just saw you in the other thread blaming the fact that they cut Minthara's pregnancy arc on the "ultra-woke crowd" I'm relatively certain our perspectives on this game and how it can be improved differ a bit too much to have useful dialogue on the subject.

If you're already thinking when you post that mods might want to intervene, that's probably a good indication that you might want to change what you're saying! Let's stick to the discussion we're having here and not bring up something that was said in another thread that's not got any clear relevance here.

Particularly when I have already weighed in on what had been said on that other thread, and therefore we should be treating the matter as closed and moving on. Let's do that.

Your love and awesome companion HAS to go back to hell as it is. You get to join her there, and we now have a slightly extended version of what that looks like. And you can bring Wyll along. Without the new scene, one could easily imagine her being alone, afraid, desperate, and who knows, she swore to not go back, so she might end IT if she went there alone.

Im sure many would like a way to fix her infernal engine, but with that option not on the table, this is the next best thing imo. Its satisfying because we get more closure. Its also satisfying in the sense, that sometimes life is hell (no pun intended), and theres not much you can do about it. But your friends and loved ones can help you along and make it bearable.

I personally thought it was an amazing arc, if a bit sad.

Jesus Christ you people actually got a new ending because of your whining and you still aren't happy with it. Crying about Karlach's ending just shows how much you've missed the point of her entire character. The writers did an amazing job the first time around, and they decided to include some fan-fiction in the game for you. It's time to let it go.

"what Karlach deservers" lmfao. It's a videogame, get a grip. The story is writen by writers which decided how it will end for her. No, love doesn't save you from impending death. No, you don't always get what you want, even in Faerun. That's the sad part of her arch, if it had YET ANOTHER happy ending it would be just another ending like all the other endings you can get for your companions. If your thick heads didn't get it from all the exposition, some companions deal with different kinds of trauma. I'd be honestly disappointed if, after Karlach finally lets it all out, after all the pent-up rage and hidden sadness, you actually got her fixed so she go to Build-a-Bear and live happily ever after. That's not good writing, go watch a romcom if you think it is.

And your certainly entitled to being so. My feelings/opinion on the subject doesnt invalidate yours. Im thinking that since they went to this effort in giving a new scene with more closure, they are not going to add another option.

But then again, who knows, they might give us the option down the line. It seems from the "cut" content thats been datamined that there were plans at some point for being able to fix hewr infernal engine. Im pretty sure Larian will make a definitive edition at some point (1-2 years maybe). But coming to terms with this new scene as being the final ending for her/Tav, is better than being dissapointed if they dont add the fixing her option.

I was also happy because they went to the effort to bring more closure/better ending for her. That gives me hope for the rest of the companions, etc etc. I might have felt more like you, if she was my main romance. Mine was Laezel however and Karlach was my second (didnt get date night), but they were both in a relationship with me. I did reload before the end though and break up with Karlach, in fear of breaking the ending (I think I gamed the romance system a bit, dont think one is meant to be able to be with Both Laezel and Karlach,

PS:


+1

Ok I don't know you or anything about you and I think after reading what you said I don't really care to get to know you. I just wanted to say you're not only coming off as extremely not only extremely disingenuous, but also rude and insulting. You said it yourself, every other companion can have a happy ending. EVERY OTHER COMPANION GETS TO HAVE ONE!!! EXCEPT!!! FOR!!! KARLACH!!!

You can keep saying we "don't always get what we want" but my problem is we NEVER do, EVER!!! This "new" ending that isn't even a new ending, just a shiny new cutscene slapped onto the old shitty ending that we hated?!?! IT'S NOT WHAT WE WANTED!!! IT'S NOT WHAT WE ASKED FOR!!!

Every time I see a story about a character with the traits as Karlach, a queer coded-woman suffering from a past of abuse, torture and pain, (traits I happen to SHARE by the way) it ALWAYS ends the same fucking way! In one story after another. Over and over and over. Again and again. There's a reason why "Bury Your Gays" is a Trope and why there's entire website called "Does The Lesbian Die."

Why is THIS the only story about us that deserves to be told? Why must we be defined SOLELY by our pain and suffering?! WE ARE SO MUCH MORE THAN OUR SCARS!!! DON'T WE DESERVE OTHER STORIES?!?!

You think we're whiny and entitled? My guy, YOU'RE the entitled one. I don't know who you are or what your sexuality is, but you sound like a straight person telling a bunch of queers to stop getting upset over the fact that we're constantly seeing ourselves suffer and die over and over and over, meanwhile straight people have SO many stories with happy endings to choose from that "Riding Into The Sunset" is a widespread phrase in English Vernacular!!!

Every single character faces hardships. Every single companion gets a possible ending where they can overcome those hardships and live their best lives EXCEPT FOR KARLACH! That's not fair. Karlach deserves better and we as players deserve better. But let's not forget what players REALLY want; they want to impregnate the evil drow companion who wants to murder everyone in the Druid Grove! So fuck Karlach, let's have Larian work on that instead! That's what REALLY matters to the BG3 Community. And YOU want to talk to ME about "bad writing?" You seriously make me want to vomit.

Anyways I don't know you or anything about you and I don't know your reasons for feeling the way you do, what I DO know is you dismissed OUR thoughts and feelings and made it out like we were AT FAULT for feeling the way we do about something that is IN NO WAY a satisfying ending. And I don't know if you're queer or sapphic yourself like me, but seriously. You think a LESBIAN doesn't know she "can't always gets what she wants?" Yeah. That's been my entire life story. So when do I START getting what I want?

tl;dr: shut up.

Completely random, but what I find fascinating is how an Origin companion which isn't even included in the promotional art for the game, is stealing hearts left and right and creating such massive waves among the fans

Personally I also love Karlach's character and it's sad how in comparison to all the other Origin companions, she feels mostly like a random tag-along rather than someone with purpose. Larian has a really great character on their hands whose potential doesn't feel fully realized;

• Her story journal has barely anything written in it, barely two lines... while Shadowheart and Lae'zel have an entire novel.
• Karlach's journey is literally just Infernal Iron > Infernal Iron > GG... while Lae'zel and Shadowheart basically get entire acts all for themselves which constantly span from ACT 1 to ACT 2 to ACT 3.
• Playing as Dark Urge, Karlach is also the only companion which has absolutely no comment in certain scenes for Dark Urge, despite every other companion having full dialogue for it. Which tells me they forgot about her.
• Karlach's romance is also pushed aside while all the other romances are prioritized. She was my first romance in the game, yet she was the last one triggered for me to finally fully commit to her because all the other romances took priority in trying to flirt with me. Simply why.
• Where are all the Zariel's lackeys that are supposed to find and enslave her across her journey. Something that's mentioned by her, but then completely tossed out the window and forgotten once she's recruited because Mizora says so.

This is not just an issue with Karlach's ending, this is an issue with Karlach entirely. She needs more meat in her story, more juicy content. She needs something happening between her recruitment and ACT 3 so she doesn't feel like a passive sidekick with nothing to actually do. It takes 2 whole acts before she even does anything meaningful and that's only if the player romances her. If not then she does nothing meaningful really because her story in two acts is literally just grabbing two infernal iron and that's it.

Sucks that such a captivating character received the Beast treatment from DOS2, who compared to everyone felt like an afterthought story while everyone else's was fantastically juicy and intricate.

The issue is that her quest is not complete in act3. You can see x clues, that there was a possibility to save her using gondians and new better engine. (I'm not talking about true resurrection scroll and similar, this I personally don't count as "valid" saving methods, because there have to be some limitatons). After killing Gortash you complete quest and cannot do anything more with backpack full of infernal ore and saved gondians. Dammon is silent, nobody cares until end of the game. If there will be dialogs with gondians and they will tell you. "Sorry we can't save her" then ok, but all clues lead to fixing the issue. With game like this with 17000 endings there should be possibility to save her, maybe through some difficult rolls, I don't know. It was not about writers, but about lack of time.

What I really don't understand is why you think it absolutely, 100% MUST be one or the other... Why can't it be all of them? Why can't all of the endings, both existing and desired, be available as options?

We're essentially playing a Choose-Your-Own-Adventure book... If you feel that Karlach works better by her then by all means, play the game as such and more power to you!

But why must we, the ones who would genuinely prefer the, as you've put it, "Build-a-Bear, live happily ever after" alternative be forced into choosing the exact opposite of such? How does the existence of that option detract in any way from how you choose to guide your particular story through the game? By your same logic, I'd say an argument can be made that Minthara's vanishing from the story after Act II is just the authors' artistic vision, yet I think we can all agree that it would be a dumb thing to argue.

In a game which, as others have pointed out time and again, allows literally each and every other character said "Build-a-Bear" ending as a choice, the absence of such a choice for just one of the characters (and, I might add, the most CLEARLY Good-aligned of them all) cannot be defended as artistic vision, but is damnably just sloppy writing. All the more so when considering that this isn't a linear story and it was never meant to be one.

Hells, if I wanted to watch everyone die at the end, I'd just stick to 40k. There's plenty grimdark in there, we really don't need D&D to be a Snyder flick...

That's my problem. It's not the fact that the bleak, grim and depressing endings exist. It's that it's ALL THAT THERE IS. And also, Larian already made an entire fucking gamemode JUST for you that you can activate in the character creation window if you want to be a fucking murder-hobo. But we still get nothing. Even this "fix" is just that, nothing. People like Raz really be out here eating a whole ass five-course banquet while we're begging for crumbs, and then they have the audacity to tell us that we're greedy and that we don't even deserve our crumbs.

I swear, most of these arguments against a truly happy ending for Karlach make even less sense than the entirety of Act III... I can't help but agree with you, that these arguments exist for no reason other than pure spite...

I mean, why doesn't Gale also just blow up? Ideally, immediately after the BBEG is dealt with, the story's settled, and the tens of hours of game time spent trying to avoid that fate for him through direct player intervention, just because it would be more flavourful if Mystra turned out to actually be a vindictive douche...

I'm being sarcastic, of course, this entire thing just... blew (pardon) my mind...