Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Alternative to the double arbitrary GM decision with Orpheus' and Emperor?

I just played the Orpheus & Emperor scene again, and it feels very arbitrary that it is not possible to get the Emperor to stay when Orpheus is freed.

I understand that he’s afraid, but I transformed to Illithid (and then told the Emperor that he won’t assimilate Orpheus) and the argumentation used by Orpheus not to kill me could with a bit of convincing be used the same way to work with the Emperor.

An Illithid who keeps his free will instead of submitting to the brain. That’s the Emperor, too.

There would be a lot more wrath involved, and the Emperor won’t take the chance and it won’t be possible to convince him as a non-illithid, but either subduing him instead of talking to him (Otto’s dance plus vines plus net arrows) or tricking him into transforming me into an Illithid and then convincing him with the vast Charisma bonus I get (or with a natural 20; a second 99 roll that can actually succeed?) should be possible.

And then hoping that the companions will bail me out once Orpheus is free and provide space to talk, because as Illithid I cannot fight him.

Having the two arbitrary decisions (you cannot dominate the brain with a natural 20, you cannot convince or force the Emperor to take a chance with Orpheus) feels wrong. As a GM that would be a grave error for me. So I would love seeing the alternate end-battle plot where the Emperor and Orpheus fight side by side — maybe with an ending where hard convincing is necessary to prevent them from killing each other.

And it’s totally reasonable that you can’t reason with the Emperor as a non-Illithid. It’s clear at that point that this is similar to a child trying to talk with an adult about a math problem.

But after transformation, I would love to have an option to say “Orpheus won’t harm you. Our friends will make sure of that. If he tries, I will assimilate him. We trusted you with our lives again and again. Now it is time for you to trust us. We are not Ansur. We respect your wish to live.”

And if the friendship to your friends is high enough (maximum?) even Lae’zel will stand with you (since she also lets you assimilate Orpheus if you convince her).

And it could actually add another hard choice: if you have a companion, the Emperor could ask you: “If I take this risk, will you leave (name of companion) and join me after we defeat the brain?”

It is clear that that’s something he wishes for (“you are exquisite!”), so that’s additional leverage. And it preserves the plot aspect of forcing a hard choice just before the end.

(I read that Omeluun reveals elsewhere that his ring of protection doesn’t actually protect him, but that he just gave it to you to make you feel better, so it doesn’t provide a way to give the Emperor safety against Orpheus)

prevent Orpheus or any party member from becoming a mindflayer after freeing him

agree with the Emperor to turn someone into a tadpole, talk to Lae'Zel about not killing Orpheus and Gale about definitely blowing up, then accept the tadpole but change your mind after it's given to you, then talk to Orpheus about the Gale bomb. The only way to convince Orpheus not to transform is if you have the final tadpole and promise to use it if Gale bomb fails.

Mind Flayer: I cannot risk this body. I have heard the call - we will all be needed for what is to come.

He is stuck with us for lack of a better option (if it's true that some tags linked to some dialogue lines have been unused/abandonned, none of them specifically concern his lines about "trust", it seems it's pure bluff), and because he is a control freak. It's probably better for him to take things into his own hands and choose his next action while he still can, rather than waiting for external factors like Tav's mood to decide his fate.

And even if Orpheus were to begrudgingly agree to cooperate with him, no one could pretend to ensure the Emperor's protection once his task is fulfilled.

He should be cautious enough to keep reading the surface thoughts of his allies, especially in such a critical moment. Not to mention that he normally already forecast this option (You can make only one move at a time. But the Netherbrain calculates every possible move at once. It knows what you will do, it knows everything you could possibly do. You cannot outmanoeuvre it. To defeat it, you would have to think like an illithid. Better yet, be one.)

It might be even worse. The game should have pushed its intention and penalised both the ones who commune with the big tadpoles that the Emperor specially nurtured and the Tav who communed with him at the deepest level by preventing them all to disobey his decisions.
Emperor's hideout, the githyanki Ch'r'ai Har'rak: Most illithids prefer to dominate their thralls through transformation, yet here you stand, untransformed(/only partially transformed).

I'm not sure why he would even ask? Thrall-bond is superior than love (The Emperor: Not love, no. What I had with Belynne Stelmane was much more than that). And if it's for dirty business, exceptionally strong personality or not, Tav's mind and soul are altered beyond recognition, romance stuff will be finished soon enough for them to ultimately knock the Emperor's door and seek for his guidance.

"You are... exquisite." is probably just the best move to do since Tav is very vulnerable as this moment, they need both reassurance on their appearance and encouragement, not only to keep them at their best of efficiency but also to convince the companions to imitate them.

wound up with a turned Karlach. Yes, tough choice and great narration, seeing this is apparently the only way to save a friend from burning up in the end. I had hoped that after Saving the Gondians, Zanner Toobin would come up with an idea of how to fix her heart. By now, I read about how you can follow that whole Blade of Avernus arc which however was really a bit goofy to my taste. A level 1 ranger, a crazy cleric and Infernal Enemy #1 against legions of devils in hell?! Karlach said it at the House of Hope: They wouldn't stand a chance in the first layer of Baator I know from the original tabletop game. Or perhaps Wyll meant Avernus in Tethyr and he was just lost in the woods for a few months? I guess I'll give this ending a chance someday, if it's available with a pact-broken Wyll. Still, silly ending for an otherwise cool story arc and awesome character. The way we wound up in the prism, Karlach didn't want to go back to Avernus, so that was that.

Playing a Githyanki necromancer with soldier background would have left me no option, but to fight and kill the Emperor on the spot for treason after announcing he would join the Absolute. But weakened as we were, no way back to camp and stripped of all thralls, elemental and undead, his escape is explainable. After Act 2 and having met Omeluum and other unlikely allies, my Tav actually tried to befriend the Emperor, but the relationship soured over all that occurred in Act 3, because of him being skimpy with information about his hit-and-miss plans, which ironically turned his apparent trust issues into a self-fulfilling prophecy. After the Wyrmway, my Tav plotted to get rid of him at the earliest opportunity, although not necessarily killing him. (I actually spent a scroll to protect the unconscious Emperor on top of the Netherbrain to protect him from Nautiloid bombardment.) Therefore, an option to work with both Orpheus and the Emperor would have been nice.

The idea of running back to the Lower City and getting an illithid that is actually cool to handle the Netherstones occurred to me on the spot. Omeluum didn't seem like much of a courageous fighter, through. Maybe it wasn't up for the task.