Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Actions ... during (and outside of) conversations.

So ... maybe im too late to sugest something like this ...
But i really feel like we are lacking some option to make actions (not just talking) toward NPCs ...

Take Arabella ... yes i know, i keep repeating this example over and over, it just bothers me that much.
We either persuate Kagha, or not ... and if we dont, we are just watching child (that totally deserves it) die with our hands crossed on our chest ...
FFS Larian
We have around 20 Healing potions in your bag, 5 antidotes, potion of poison resistance, at least 4 Revivify scrolls, and dont let me start about how many spellslots can your party potentialy have, with prepared healing and conditions removing spells!
Let us do something!

You need to child die to be "dramatic"? Fine, let it die ... but let us try to prevent it and fail!
Let our Tav try to administer potion, but let it be "too late" ...
Let our Tav to waste revivify scroll, since her afterlife would be quite fine compared to this existence ...
Let our Tav to offer her parents last conversation with her ...

Those all are actions you offered to us, actions we now have and that are part of the world, not just game mechanics ... let us use them.

Dont limit such things for "party member only", or "outside of conversation only" ...
Dont let other NPCs whine around dead body that is actualy floating abowe the ground, while we talking to it and IT FREAKING ANSWERS! ... they really should react on that.


I completely understand that this may seem like tie your own noose ...
Since some players would want to heal, and ress every single NPC that exists ... but i dont think it would be ... we can "talk to any dead NPC" but vast majority of them dont answer, narator simply tells us that corpse have nothing to say and we are done.
Revivify scroll can be exactly the same, if we ress some NPCs they can either simply runaway without a word ... or they can ignore our effort (wich would mean waste the scroll) to ress them, since they are happy in the afterlife ...
> Would be great if we could ask them by Speak with Dead if they wish to be ressurected.

Also ...
I would like to ask for Subtle Spell (Sorcerer Metamagic) to be useable during conversation casting to negate some conesequences ...
Friends > NPC cant know we used magic on them
Detect Thoughts > advantage, or big bonus to sucess ...
Stuff like that.

This may be a little chaotic suggestion, i struggled with finding corect words, let me know if its understandable.

//Edit:
Important thing that i forgot and was pointed out later:
Revivify scrolls should be made MUCH more rare and expensive! And when i say MUCH, i mean it ... like ten times more rare and expensive seems acurate to me.

I must say it is quite impressive that you manage to get Arabella killed, as I just spent 20 minutes reloading and praying to RNGesus to fail just the first Persuasion roll, only to have to fail yet another Persuasion roll with a given advantage. But I see you think she deserves to die, so I guess it is understandable

So took me some time to see what happens if you fail the speech rolls, but the outcome is the same even if you don't do anything.

Honestly I think any further interaction from the main character would be irrelevant since it would serve no actual purpose, as you get two chances to prevent it and because Rath is right there first trying to save her from the snake and then holding her as she's dying. If anyone would know what to do in that situation, it would be him, which only shows how powerful the venom's snake truly is when Arabella died in an instant from a bite in the leg and a druid of the circle being completely helpless to prevent it.


She dies instantly. It's already too late from the moment she started running. The main character trying to shove an antidote down her throat at that point would only make us look silly


Impossible to do since Kagha says to bury the child away from sight. So she probably gets dumped somewhere where the sun doesn't shine.


I don't like when gameplay logic is being used for story logic.

As far as story goes, revive scrolls do not exist within it. They're just gameplay items used solely for the convenience of the player to revive companions. Same as Withers, who has an interesting backstory but in all honesty is just a revive bot.

Otherwise every peasant would be trying to revive their dead ones in the story. Look at through how much hell Mayrina went to "revive" her dead husband and how that turns out. And look at what happens to Astarion and Lae'zel if they die due to story decisions. Once you're dead, you're dead for good. No resurrections.

Personally I find the whole concept of reviving companions contradictory in itself. It would be a lot better if companions would get downed and then permanently downed for the remainder of the entire day if they fail the rolls, encouraging us to take a long rest in order to nurture them back to health. That to me would be a lot better and make more sense with the in-game world than them dying and we being an almighty 4th wall breaking God resurrecting them. But it's a gameplay mechanic for our convenience, so the same logic cannot be used for the story.


I do agree that it would add a lot of immersion to see more NPCs react to the dead body talking. So far Benryn is the only NPC that felt really immersive with the spell. It's a small thing, but one that brings a lot of immersion.

This is the exact reason I am rooting for a button to purposely fail any given check in the game, except passive checks.

Resurrecting the dead is very expensive for "common people". I don't think it's possible at all or only with great difficulty with side effects (zombies, liches, etc.) but:

1. I don't understand why Kagha as the new "First Druid" or high-ranking Druid is not able to revive the dead, especially recently deceased ones.
2. Revival items can help. ToB proved one of these exceptions via dialogue option, watch from 11:40 min.

Let us look silly then. It's an rpg; we should be given options that allow us to role-play our character in a variety of ways, including looking silly.

Not impossible while we're still in the conversation. We are literally right there. Make a dialogue option: "Hold up, I can still help her / I'm taking her body with me back to her parents," possibly leading to combat if you insist on it against Kagha's will.

This is indeed a problem with the game. We shouldn't be given nearly as many revivify scrolls (also, they should only be effective within a minute of death). We should be given 1 True Resurrection Scroll, and then maybe Withers can revive our characters for a *large* fee because, you know, he's a powerful avatar of death.

Or, and this is a novel idea, just let characters die! It's a video game, so if characters die you can a) accept the consequences, b) Use the 1 scroll of resurrection that comes with Gale and suffer the consequences of not having it later, or c) JUST RELOAD. The fact that character death means so little in BG3 takes away a lot of the tension of playing. Who cares if an ally dies during a fight?! As long as you win, everything is totally fine.

That said, if we have a scroll of revivify/resurrection on our person, we should be able to use it on the girl. Such scrolls do exist in the D&D world - it would just make much more sense if they were super valuable and rare.

Love this. xD

I dont want to prevent it ...
I want my character to actualy try do something about it and fail ... not stand there, with hands on her chest and watch as if there was something irellevant or boring.

And that is the purpose it would serve, to actualy show your Tav cared.

Thats completely different situation!

You get two chances to pesuate Kagha to let the child go ... your persuation failed ... child got bitten ... now child is dying fast ... what would you do *NOW*?

Curent Tav is like:


What i want would be like:


Dont you see the difference?

You dont really try too hard to understand do you?

Lo-gi-ca-ly ... that scene could be changed slightly ... after all, *change* is what im asking here ...
OR ... ALSO logicaly ... Tav can simply rush towards the girl with potion in hand, only to find out that there is nothing to do for her.

I mean, if you wish to ask for moron that will spill health potion over face of dead child, feel free to ... but please, do that somewhere else. :-/

Again ... *change* ...

And again logicaly, Tav would need to [persuate] Kagha to surender the remains, so we can give the body to her parents to burry her ... or [deceive] her with claim that we will do that.

And thats where you are wrong. :P

For one ... Gale specificly thanks you for reviving him.
> Therefore reviving is integral part of the story ... and the world.

For two ... Mol specificly tells you that they need you to steal that Druid idol, so they can sell it in the city and pay for Arabella revival.
> Therefore reviving is integral part of the story ... and the world ... even tho Mol most likely lied about that reasons. :-/

Let me offer you something to read:
https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Revivify#h-Revivify

See?
Not "every peasant" have prepared Cleric/Paladin with spell ... not "every peasant" have diamants worth 300gp ... and certainly not "every peasant" is able to get both within single minute.
THATS how this world keeps ballance.

Coveniently ... Arabella have both withing grasp (presuming she wouldnt be dead) ...
All that keeps her from return to life, is stupid "gameplay" mechanic ...
While all that *should* keep her from returning to life *should* actualy be the cost of that spell (i forget to write it in OP, but i believe that those scrolls should be at least ten times more expensive to BUY ... meaning 3000g rather than 300g and certainly much more rare to loot) ... in other words, the only thing that *should* keep her from returning to life would be willingness of our character to sacrifice this for her.

Yup ...
Mayrina obviously either didnt have 300gp worth diamonts ... or didnt manage to find caster in time ... no contradiction here.

As for Astarion and Lae'zel ... i think we should be able to ressurect them, even if it was us who killed them during some conversation, same reasons as abowe ... its just "gameplay" mechanic and that isnt good design for roleplaying.
Let us ress them, let them run away imediately after they ress.
> Problem solved, integrity of the world restored.

Yup.

Anyway thans for the reaction ... i hope we understand each other much better now. ^_^

It seems these examples were taken as a slight, which was not their purpose Ragnarok, so apologies if you got that feeling.

I actually understand you perfectly well, it's just that I'm basing my arguments on actual existing scenes and mechanics set in place. Any what-if choices and scenarios are just wishful thinking outside of that, but I do not think that they would in a million years do so much work required just to add some personality flair for the main character. At best they would add meaningful additions specific to the scene, which they already have as I'm positively certain that the second speech check after failing the first one was not available in Patch 7.

Because yes, everything is possible if I keep thinking that it could be changed/added/improved, but that is all just wishful thinking which I personally do not see happening. So no slight was intended, I'm just speaking based on the things actually present in the game. I simply do not see them doing this due to how much work it would take to add some extra flair and freedom of interaction, especially considering how much of the game is not even available to us and some encounters in the game aren't even properly implemented still.

Plenty of cutscenes are missing lines, not playing out, not finishing or not even respecting player choices.


Actually I'm not wrong

See the thing is I never claimed that revival does not exist in the lore, because obviously it does through various means. I said because you mentioned them; that"resurrection scrolls", the items we use to revive companions, do not exist and they don't. Because if they did then everyone would be aware of their existence and would be trying to obtain them considering how common the are. Tooltip for the scroll: "Revive a companion. They return to life with 1 hit point".

So obviously they are a gameplay mechanic intended exclusively for companions, not for other people. Yes, for story purposes we can revive Gale with it or revive ourselves in order to be angry at Astarion the next morning after he kills us, but nowhere in the story are they ever mentioned or even acknowledged. As far as the story is concerned in extremely specific cases, you're just "magically able to revive certain people with no questions asked" (like Gale and yourself after Astarion sucks you dry), but it extremely contradicts itself because;

Let me ask you this. If the tadpoles in our heads leave our bodies once we die... why can't I just kill myself so it leaves my body and then get revived later with the scroll or Withers? Or why does the tadpole not leave our head when Astarion goes overboard with his bite and leaves us dead in the camp the entire night? By all accounts we are considered dead and the tadpole should leave, but the story although acknowledges our death, does not respect the logic of it exactly because the scrolls/Withers are just a mechanic intended for our own use.

So I stand by my words that they are nothing more than a gameplay mechanic exclusively used for companions and therefore completely non-existent in the actual reality of the world and unable to be used for NPCs, because a Ranger/Barbarian/Fighter/Rogue classes should not be able to revive other people. Scrolls do not exist, but revival itself does through specialized classes and powerful beings or artefacts.

Clerics and Paladins obviously do have this spell and can perform it, but as I mentioned above... the game follows a certain un-spoken rule with dead people, as it does with plenty of other aspects in the game. Unless the story intends for an NPC to be revived, they are dead for good. Otherwise what is the point of consequences to our actions if we could just revive everyone that dies.

Thats the fun part ... me too ... and i would say i do it better.
Look!

The scene:


Now just imagine ...
At 1:18 when Rath kneels next to Arabella ... our Tav is kneeling just next to him, offering potion in hand ... but sadly, its too late for her.
Voila!

Easy, simple, cheap, with fresh scent of lemons! :P

How to determine if our Tav should do that you ask?
Well, simply ofcourse ... you tryed to safe her > you offer a potion ... you didnt > you dont.

Now, please ... tell me again how "they wouldnt in a million years do so much work required just to add some personality flair for the main character". :P


https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=741085#Post741085
I think im well aware.


*Revivify ... but thats minor detail.

One could aswell argue that removing this game restriction "useable on companions only" is F*****G EXACTLY THE CHANGE THAT IM ASKING FOR ...
Sigh ... but i presume that would require actualy reading the topic, huh? -_-

I mean just count logic ...
Reviving magic exists in this world ... check.
Storing magic on scrolls is technicaly possible in this world ... check.
Therefore ... lo-gi-ca-ly ... Revivify scrolls in this world can (and obviously do) exist.

What is game mechanic then? Im glad you asked ... lets try to figure that out shall we?
There are basicaly just two options:

1) Existence of scroll, wich is in this world completely normal ... containing spell, wich is in this world completely normal ... that allows you to ressurect person who recently died, wich is in this world completely normal ...

OR

2) Limiation coming out of nowhere, that have no equal in this whole existence ... allowing you to use this scroll only on certain beings, and only in certain circumstances ... and if those conditions are not met, the things isnt just "not working" but you cant even try to use it at all somehow ...

Take as much time as you need, i know my answer.


Sigh ...
Wich part of sentence "Revivify scrolls should be much more expensive and rare" you need me to repeat? O_o

Concidering this question was answered about year and half ago ... this is actualy cute.
There was whole pages written about this, and i would really dislike this topic to turn into another one ... so i feel strong urge to ask you to use "Seach" button in top right corner if you want more details.

But in really short, so you dont say i didnt answer you:
Tadpole is in your brain ... what you know > it knows ...
And what it knows is that you will be ressurected > therefore it dont leave.
As for crushing ... our head is never crushed in this game ... therefore such argument is void.
The only thing that is odd is Withers, who ressurect us with tadpole even if our whole body burns to atoms in lava ... but Withers is game mechanic, so he is completely irellevant to this topic.

Thats all i say on this matter here.
And i would appreciate same from you.


And as *i* mentioned abowe ... as much abowe, so its OP ... meaning basicaly reason for this topic to exist:
That is exactly what i want to change.

So curent state is not relevant.

Even though I do read every single word, I feel like there's no point in saying anything further as it only seems to annoy you due to all the passive-aggressive sighs and sarcasm, so I'll just say I disagree and pull myself out of the discussion. No hard feelings I hope.

Good luck with the wanted changes though.

i for 1 love the shock value of seeing the little so and so get her fate... lets face it, most people will just reload a save and try again at that point but it should be in the game and things should sometimes have unforseen results [not totally unforseen imo]

i like that you side with evil and i also like that some characters get in trouble if we don't arrive in time to play hero... the bugbear gets her or the boy walks into the water, make the world seem more real to me and gives me a poke to hurry up

p.s, i also love that if you don't save the girl thats not the end of her side story yet... you get a chance to step in later to have Mum and Dad get revenge or talk them into letting it go

i agree if they let us do it in combat it should be possible out of it.

All you need is extra rules. For bodies effects. i think the game already has tags for damage to bodies liked burned acid and others.
I think it's used with talk to dead, same thing should be done here for res or antidote and others like disease and curses. IF roll fails the first time you can't help the target anymore, simple... But it would mean they would have to add new lines of txt and maybe an item or two to npcs and some quests nothing outside of realms of possibility.

BG 2 had lots of similar npcs you could save or not... One of better known ones is the Glaicas Guard captain in De'Arnise Keep and many others. Works great in bg 3 as well already like with Efrin in hags lair...

Exactly!

In ideal world Larian writer should write a list of all things we can do in this game ...
And then count with thoe things in every situation they are relevant.