Larian Studios
Posted By: Pikosil Final word on genders? - 30/12/13 04:38 AM
This video is only a few weeks old but you are still forced to have a female character instead of having both male characters?

What's up with that? I really don't even buy games anymore that have female characters, especially ones forced so strongly on you.

Will you be able to have both characters as male or not?
Posted By: Pikosil Re: Final word on genders? - 30/12/13 04:43 AM
Also, please remove the ugly red highlighting when you hover your mouse over enemy creatures.
Posted By: Raze Re: Final word on genders? - 30/12/13 05:36 AM

Notice the general lack of cosmetic character customization in the alpha?

Yes, as was stated multiple times in your previous topics about this, you will eventually be able to choose the gender of both characters (presumably with either the next major alpha update or the beta).
Posted By: Dundalis Re: Final word on genders? - 30/12/13 07:13 AM
What's this guy got against women? Unless of course they are a woman. Even still, odd.

I personally prefer playing as a male PC, but always pick female companions if available. Screw sausage fests.
Posted By: Regnox Re: Final word on genders? - 30/12/13 08:49 AM
so... Pikosil... I'm probably going to seem like an ass saying this (and I honestly don't care) but you have made 3 topics and posted 9 comments in those topics... ALL of them were about the fact that you simply can't play as a female for some reason and each time you got the same answer beeing that yes, you would be able to choose your gender. This is an alpha version so it's not really surprising that character customisation isn't really present and since you really hate playing as females just wait for a new build that allows you to chose. So please, could you stop posting this utterly useless topic every month or 2?
Posted By: Inanna Re: Final word on genders? - 30/12/13 09:41 AM
I usually play female characters, I'm not complaining that I have to have Roderick hanging around. I actually give him all the manly duties like washing the dishes and cooking, he makes a great fish pie, and his bread is always perfect. All Scarlett needs to do is grunt in his general direction and she gets fed. He even runs into the middle of her fireballs hacking and slashing at Orcs, Undead, guards, fishermen... he even tried taking on Arhu because Scarlet wanted to raid his wizardly body.

Long story short Roderick wears the dress in that relationship.

Now OP please stop making these silly non-helpful posts every few months. We get that you either hate women or are afraid of them, Larian has addressed that. Raze has posted here confirming that what has been said before is still the case. So shut up about it already.
Posted By: Robcat Re: Final word on genders? - 30/12/13 09:57 AM
Not at all Regnox, it is rather inappropriate behaviour and deserves to be called out imo. You were nothing but polite in doing so.

However Pikosil, if you would like to explain why you are so concerned about this and find it hard to believe people's reassurances that your preferences will indeed be catered to with this game, then perhaps we might be able to have a productive discussion and truly help ease your concerns. I would be happy to have a chat about it via pm if you would like.
Posted By: Pikosil Re: Final word on genders? - 30/12/13 02:40 PM
Don't you find it super obnoxious that mages and rangers in almost every RPG are automatically female?
I just can't stand that anti-male culture any more where females are imparted with sophistication and intelligence and males are just brutes.
It makes me sick.
Posted By: Wrshp of BAAAH Re: Final word on genders? - 30/12/13 06:01 PM
Pikosil, what's the matter, ovaries make you nervous? smile Also, you did read that long post about this being alpha, before complaining? Just so we know if we're dealing with poor reading comprehension skills or just general ignorance.
Posted By: Janju Re: Final word on genders? - 30/12/13 06:10 PM
Originally Posted by Pikosil
Don't you find it super obnoxious that mages and rangers in almost every RPG are automatically female?
I just can't stand that anti-male culture any more where females are imparted with sophistication and intelligence and males are just brutes.
It makes me sick.
I am always making female warriors and male wizards. smile
Posted By: Inanna Re: Final word on genders? - 30/12/13 06:30 PM
Funny you find that an issue, considering I have a different issue entirely. Most game developers don't put enough female characters in games that are portrayed well. There are precious few modern games that allows you to play as a female character as a main in the game. If I want to play a decent game, I better buckle up and be ready to play as a guy to do so. How do you think that makes a female gamer feel when she has no option?

Males gets portrayed as heroes in most games out there. You give me 10 female protagonists and I'll give you 20 males.

You want some males that aren't fighter based? Try Sam Fisher from Splinter Cell, that series of games is all about stealth, you have both Zandalor and Bellegar in the Divinity series, Vivi in FF9 was a mage, Genis is Tales of Symphonia, also from there you have Yggdrasil. I'm also guessing that you skipped Skyrim's NPCs, after all you have Fendaril from there, he's the wood elf archer. There are a lot more than that to boot too.

Males are FAR from being a minority in games, considering that most games have males as leads.
Posted By: Wrshp of BAAAH Re: Final word on genders? - 30/12/13 07:00 PM
Btw, if there's anyone else here, who has a problem with female protagonists, here's your homework: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/7044-The-Creepy-Cull-of-Female-Protagonists
Posted By: Pikosil Re: Final word on genders? - 30/12/13 08:05 PM
Originally Posted by Wrshp of BAAAH
Btw, if there's anyone else here, who has a problem with female protagonists, here's your homework: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/7044-The-Creepy-Cull-of-Female-Protagonists


LOL, the stupidity of this is laughable.
The gaming industry would go bankrupt within a year if there would be more female protagonists.
I don't ever want a game with a female protagonist because that completely breaks the basic immersion of a game and makes me feel like an observer.
And as the overwhelming majority of gamers are male and always will be that pretty much settles it no matter what male feminists(or as I like to call them - pussy beggars) think.

Here is a far more significant video to watch regarding the toxicity of feminism, feminism is intellectually bankrupt and morally repugnant, its entire premise is a falsehood.
Posted By: Robcat Re: Final word on genders? - 30/12/13 08:18 PM
Well, I don't find it obnoxious because I don't think that is true. It's not true of Baldur's Gate or Temple of Elemental Evil for example, it's not true of Dragon Age (for a more mainstream example). I'm struggling to think of ANY RPGs where males are under-represented.

I can agree insofar as I have a dislike of stereotypes, be they male or female, I just think that RPGs tend to be pretty good about this (at least the ones I play) and if anything, it is female characters who are under-represented or misrepresented due to the disproportion of male:female gamers, among... other things.

I think you have a point about 'anti-male' culture in the sense that there is a common theme in today's media (most notably tv advertisements) where the female (usually the mother in a family setting) is portrayed as wise and savvy whereas the male is a bumbling idiot used for comic relief. However, this hardly makes me sick and I feel concerned for you that you would express such strong language about it. The reason this barely bothers me is because I recognise it as merely a shift from stereotypes that negatively portrayed women, a rebalancing of cultural norms as it were, which tend to feature some backlash against the initial source of error. Namely, the appalling way in which women have been treated in the past (and present). Yes, males have their own share of societal hardships and stereotypes and so forth. We are ALL caught up in this thing called society and it has many, many issues that make it challenging for us to flourish as human beings to our full potential.

So my question to you, is WHY does this bother you? Of all the stereotypes, all the terrible issues of the world, all the sexism, racism, hatred, cruelty and so forth, why do female characters in RPGs bother you so much? If it's a family thing or something like that, please I don't mean to be rude and you don't need to answer, I know how stuff can mess us up believe me. I would simply encourage you to think about why this bothers you so strongly and try to get some perspective about this issue, as it seems to me you may have a rather distorted view of the proportion of gender stereotypes and character representation in video games.

Now, do you want to know what makes me 'sick'? The stereotypical way males are portrayed in games as hulking muscular brutes, as you yourself alluded to. You see, I find it hard to identify with/relate to the hugely muscular brute (even though I'm more than happy with my own physique) and more importantly it reminds me of the things I don't like about male behaviour and social conditioning in general society. Yet I try to keep things in perspective and not let this interfere with my ability to enjoy the game I'm playing. I recognise that it can be an unintended consequence of limited resources resulting in a single character model, however I would much prefer a variety of models to choose from, or at least leaner more realistic models. As I'm sure, many women would appreciate a variety of character models beyond the ultra-curvy one commonly available, that is, when they actually get the chance to play as their own gender as males can take for granted. However I patiently put up with this because I understand it can be a resource issue and compared to what women have to accept and all the other annoyances in gaming and life, it simply isn't that big a deal.

So all things considered I would consider yourself fortunate that Original Sin will provide you with the opportunity to at least play both the two protagonists as the gender(s) of your choice. Who knows, maybe one day on a subsequent playthrough you'll feel like giving a female character a try, perhaps as the AI-controlled protagonist to your male one. One day, looking back, you might even marvel at how it used to bother you. And if not, well, we can be grateful that at least we have the choice and opportunity to play as we like in this game.


Posted By: Robcat Re: Final word on genders? - 30/12/13 08:40 PM
Oh dear...

Pikosil I wouldn't have bothered with my previous response to you had I read your next post. I am open to discussion via pm if you wish to discuss things seriously, however your blanket dismissal of feminism and derogatory comments indicate that have not been able to intellectually engage with these issues or appreciate their nuances, to the point of incivility. So I am no longer interest in public discussion with you.

Free tip of the day: one of the best things you can do in intellectual life (as we all experience) is to try to formulate a convincing argument for the views you most oppose. You should be able to do this as most issues are highly complex and debatable. It is the modus operandi of debating competitions after all. Furthermore, always try to interpret any argument you hear/read in the best possible light, as it is in your interests to counter the strongest opposing argument if you wish to convince others that you are right.

Good day.
Posted By: Wrshp of BAAAH Re: Final word on genders? - 30/12/13 09:02 PM
Yeah, wanting female protagonists that actually have a backbone, interesting background & likeable (or hell, at least believable) personality, and also aren't just an eye-candy - I believe you've shown us a good practice here: let's just label all that as feminist trash and never talk about it again, shall we? I commend you on being able to cut through BS that some would call "choice". Thank you for showing us what it really is: a toxic, perverse way of poisoning your (and obviously, by extension, everyone else's) gameplay. About damn time we stand up to differences among gamers, by eliminating whatever you don't find warm and cosy, making everything in your taste and your taste alone.

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I don't ever want a game with a female protagonist because that completely breaks the basic immersion of a game and makes me feel like an observer.

I'm glad you were raised to be an open-minded individual who can clearly see that not every person (male, female, transgender, dragon lord, banshee) views this world the same way. You have shown positively great understanding of opinions and preferences other people may have; there's probably an inkling somewhere in the back of your mind that not all of those preferences are the same as yours, but I urge you to ignore it as hard as you can on the off chance it'll go away. Nothing good can come out of diversity, especially of pixel variety. After all, those couple of triangles on the front of our protagonists can wreak havoc when wielded by the wrong gender and we can't really have any of that. We just won't stand for it! RPGs (role playing games) are especially tricky in this department: sly devils want to trick you into believing that you should actually role-play whatever you can possibly imagine, be it a horse, a manly brute or a winged maiden. But you and I know the truth, we've seen that there is only one way to role-play properly - men play men and girls, well, they are probably doing something girly with their mascaras and eye-liners in the restroom. Besides, let's face it, ovaries really don't have any business of enjoying the virtual realms at all. I'd just like to assure you that female protagonists definitely break immersion for everyone out there. The fact that there are so few good examples of playable female characters has nothing to do with the fact that there are fewer female than male gamers. That I'm sure of, based on a random anecdotal story I've heard second hand in a local store once. Just kidding, I heard it in a pub, men don't go shopping. Just like we don't play fictional girly girls in our goddamn games.
Posted By: Elwyn Re: Final word on genders? - 30/12/13 09:24 PM
@ Wrshp of BAAAH, I am afraid some people would have difficulties with recognizing the ironical side of your post hehe - and think that they are confirmed in their universal opinion
Posted By: Wrshp of BAAAH Re: Final word on genders? - 30/12/13 09:30 PM
@Elwyn That could very well happen, yes smile I've sort of given up on trying to be too rational in these sort of situations, the above post was mainly just for me, my way of venting. I have to say though, much respect to Robocat for thinking about this calmly and constructively. Can't respect that enough in a person smile
Posted By: Pikosil Re: Final word on genders? - 30/12/13 09:36 PM
Originally Posted by Robcat
however your blanket dismissal of feminism


Yes, if something is based on a false premise, a cartoon-like concept of patriarchy which makes no sense whatsoever, you can dismiss the whole thing. It's not that complicated, it's just philosophy 101.

Male disposability is a much greater problem in our society which negatively affects every single aspect of it, women's rights today are only endangered by institutionalized superstitions like Christianity and especially Islam, but due to the toxic dogma of multiculturalism you will never hear feminists criticize the cancer of Islam, instead they will criticize video games. Just that speaks volumes of their intellectual and moral coherence.
Posted By: Wrshp of BAAAH Re: Final word on genders? - 30/12/13 09:46 PM
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...you will never hear feminists criticize the cancer of Islam...

Yeah, that's been done many times before. Seriously, and not just Islam. Not a week ago a member of Femen jumped on the altar at Köln's cathedral, in protest of archaic views on female body and abortions those men in funny hats have... >_>
Posted By: Raze Re: Final word on genders? - 30/12/13 10:39 PM

The fact that there are idiotic, radical feminists and 'politically correct' institutions and policies throughout the industrialized world has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not one or more of multiple inch high virtual avatars in a game is female... so I'm moving this to the chat forum.
Posted By: Wrshp of BAAAH Re: Final word on genders? - 30/12/13 10:43 PM
Raze for president \o/


(... of Rivelon?)
Posted By: Argol228 Re: Final word on genders? - 31/12/13 12:41 AM
So. as you say women are always the rangers and casters and men are the brutes. Gandalf, Legolas, batman, green arrow and probably tons more from that kind of media. but lets move it to games. First up. Almost any RPG lets you choose/customize a class so that undoes your whole argument.

Fire emblem awakening, which is a great game that destroyed your argument of immersion and treats each gender equally by have both genders for every class. from Sully the female knight. to Libra. a man of the cloth that serves his gods with devotion by healing people. and even within the more typical roles the characters are well written. Fredrick a heroic knight who is smart and sophisticated. and Lissa, a cleric who is somewhat of a bumbling fool. I have never been more immersed in a game.

Saints row 2-4 and fable 2-3 The game doesn't make any distinction about what gender you play. on Saints row 4 I have 2 save files. one is of a guy that dresses like a princess and the other is a woman who is currently running around as mecha godzilla. though yesterday she was a steampunk soldier.
Posted By: Abbie Re: Final word on genders? - 31/12/13 05:49 AM
Edit: Nevermind. Others in the thread have said it so much more eloquently than I (the cool people, I mean...not the troll who started the thread).
Posted By: Elliot_Kane Re: Final word on genders? - 31/12/13 11:42 PM
I've never cared what gender my character is, as long as the game is a good one.

Is Tomb Raider somehow a bad game (Well, set of games!) because Lara Croft is female? It would be a very unusual gamer who thought so, wouldn't it? Other than Mario and Sonic, she is probably the most recognisable game character in the world, and that didn't happen because her games don't sell well. They do.

Speaking as a guy myself, I'd like to see more lead female characters in games (And definitely more Cate Archer! Seriously, HOW good are the No-one Lives Forever games?). Not just because it would encourage more female gamers, but also because I like variety in the games I play. I like to become absorbed in a character's story in the same way I do when I read a book. If the character is believable and their story interesting, isn't that what counts?

One of the greatest things gaming does is involve the gamer deeply in other people's stories, as we will the leads on to success and (Hopefully) help them achieve it. By having games with male leads and other games with female leads, how much wider and deeper is the potential for all those stories?
Posted By: tarasis Re: Final word on genders? - 01/01/14 08:49 PM
Originally Posted by Elliot_Kane

Speaking as a guy myself, I'd like to see more lead female characters in games (And definitely more Cate Archer! Seriously, HOW good are the No-one Lives Forever games?). Not just because it would encourage more female gamers, but also because I like variety in the games I play. I like to become absorbed in a character's story in the same way I do when I read a book. If the character is believable and their story interesting, isn't that what counts?


Completely agree. Particularly about Cate Archer. So wish GOG would release NOLF 1+2
Posted By: Elliot_Kane Re: Final word on genders? - 02/01/14 05:00 PM
I got mine from Amazon, Tarasis. I gather that the rights to NOLF are kind of tied up and no-one knows quite who they belong to, so Amazon or similar are probably your best bets, for now.
Posted By: Pikosil Re: Final word on genders? - 03/01/14 08:25 PM
Originally Posted by Elliot_Kane

Is Tomb Raider somehow a bad game (Well, set of games!) because Lara Croft is female?


I wouldn't know because I would never buy a game that forces you to play as a female, such would be the predictable immersion-breaking experience.
Posted By: Raze Re: Final word on genders? - 03/01/14 09:11 PM

But you are ok with casting fireballs, shrugging off lightning strikes and running for hours on end with a ton of equipment in your backpack in a game, as long as the avatar is male?

Do you also avoid games if the player character is an animal, alien or robot, etc?

Posted By: Elliot_Kane Re: Final word on genders? - 03/01/14 10:04 PM
Originally Posted by Pikosil
Originally Posted by Elliot_Kane

Is Tomb Raider somehow a bad game (Well, set of games!) because Lara Croft is female?


I wouldn't know because I would never buy a game that forces you to play as a female, such would be the predictable immersion-breaking experience.


If playing someone who is not very like you is an immersion breaking experience, I am curious to know what games you DO play.

How far do you take the idea that you can't play someone who is not yourself?
Posted By: Pikosil Re: Final word on genders? - 03/01/14 10:49 PM
Originally Posted by Elliot_Kane


How far do you take the idea that you can't play someone who is not yourself?


Handsome, fit, young guy(up to 35) is enough.
Take the latest example, Arklash Legacy, all characters were female, mage, tank warrior and healer, and the male characters were a midget and an undead revenant.

That completely fucked up the enjoyment of the game from the very start.

This extreme feminist streak in certain studios(like Warframe) is very worrying, and more noise should be made about such nasty tendencies.
Posted By: Elliot_Kane Re: Final word on genders? - 03/01/14 11:55 PM
Originally Posted by Pikosil
Originally Posted by Elliot_Kane


How far do you take the idea that you can't play someone who is not yourself?


Handsome, fit, young guy(up to 35) is enough.


The vast majority of games, then. Although obviously no Sonic, Mario, etc.

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Take the latest example, Arklash Legacy, all characters were female, mage, tank warrior and healer, and the male characters were a midget and an undead revenant.

That completely fucked up the enjoyment of the game from the very start.


Why? I'm honestly curious. Were they lousy characters? Was the story bad?

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This extreme feminist streak in certain studios(like Warframe) is very worrying, and more noise should be made about such nasty tendencies.


There is an appalling amount of sexism in the industry (Jim Sterling regularly calls them out on it, and rightly) but I haven't seen a whole lot of feminism of any kind, let alone extremist feminism.

The industry is widely considered to be not just male dominated but male focused. If there are studios that are genuinely misandrist, I haven't read about them.
Posted By: theNILE Re: Final word on genders? - 04/01/14 02:55 AM
Originally Posted by Argol228
Gandalf, Legolas, batman, green arrow and probably tons more from that kind of media.

I'd just like to make a point that most of these sorts are usually portrayed as physically inferior to the warrior type, weaker in some matter, often effeminate or clearly lacking what people perceive as masculinity. It's even more drastic in anime/manga, a gay has their persona inverted, a male becomes effeminate and is portrayed as a female, which is very similar to what is happening to those sorts of characters. I think it shows the terrible perception which many have of gay males.
Posted By: vometia Re: Final word on genders? - 03/08/14 06:15 PM
I'm left scratching my head somewhat. I prefer to play female characters because I guess that, being female, I get more into the role, and I'm less enthusiastic about a game that tries to shoehorn me into a male role. But that's no more than my personal preference, I certainly have no intention of making a commentary on the aspects of the gaming industry, men or society as a whole. I doubt anyone would want to listen and I can't really be bothered anyway. laugh

Most of my gaming friends (male and female) don't really care too much either way, at least from what I can tell.
Posted By: virumor Re: Final word on genders? - 05/08/14 12:26 AM
Strange how these comments about being "forced" to play with certain characters very rarely come up in jRPG, adventure game genre and action/horror game genre -- where indeed in many cases the main character is female.
Posted By: Elliot_Kane Re: Final word on genders? - 05/08/14 07:13 PM
I'm always baffled myself, Virumor, probably because I don't have an actual preference as to which gender I play. It's the story I'm after.

It never even occurred to me when I first picked up a Tomb Raider game that I should not want to play it because the lead was a girl. That idea baffles me now and would have done so then as well.
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