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Posted By: soundFXman How is the novel that comes with Beyond? - 05/06/04 06:46 AM
I noticed at Best Buy on the package it says there is a novel included (that is Best Buy exclusive) by the author of Beyond Divinity, however I remember it being short....I was wondering how it is?
You mean the novella, Child of the Chaos?

I gave a critique of it in this thread. Personal opinions, naturally, so take it for what it's worth:

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The first is the tone -- I'm unsure as to whether the novella takes itself seriously or sets out to be tongue-in-cheek. Too humourous to be serious, and too serious to be humourous. The commentaries by the gods are... cute, but I feel they detract rather than add. I couldn't take the mortal characters -- Lucian, Damian, Anlokam -- seriously, since all they are doing is being chesspieces in a show to amuse divine beings. It lessens the impact of their emotions, their characters, and their struggles. I couldn't empathize with any of them. Perhaps it's the novella's length and the need to fit the plot in under certain page count limits (not to mention deadlines), but I find the character development rather lacking. When the story can't make me care about the characters, for me, all bets are off.

The prose strikes me as... bland. I'd quote specific bits, but that'd violate the copyrights stated in the inside of the front cover. Suffice to say that the words didn't draw me in, and when I came across cliches, they jumped out at me. The frequent explanations in parentheses likewise grated. This is personal preference, but for me, if something's in brackets (as far as narrative is concerned), it shouldn't be there at all. It reminds me of in-text author's notes so often seen in a beginner's fanfiction. The narrative also frequently goes on a tangent to do what I call "textbook info-dump." (Explanations of how inborn magic works, for instance. It does begin to sound a bit like an expository essay at these points, albeit an informal one.) There are some interesting descriptions here and there (such as the witty jabs at "narrative conventions"), but they don't stand out nearly enough.

It's not bad, IMO, certainly far from the worst things I've read, but it isn't particularly memorable, either. It's just... there. And of course these are all personal opinions, and my views might just be a tad colored by some of the emotionally intense, amazing fanfiction I've been reading recently.
Posted By: Abanyir Re: How is the novel that comes with Beyond? - 05/06/04 11:09 AM
Personally I thought it was a good read - short enough that it is finished quickly so you can get on with the game, and fills in the story between DD & BD nicely.

My only real criticism would be that you can definately see Mr Pratchett's influence in the humorous sections (though they are well done IMO).

For what the novella is though, it is definately worth a read.
Thanks Abynyir, although I'm not sure why you see the influence of Pratchett senior as a criticism. It's not really an influence as such, more that I'm very like my father and we share the same sense of humour <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Considering the vast amount of readers your father gets, some readers seem to like that kind of humour ... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />
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Considering the vast amount of readers your father gets, some readers seem to like that kind of humour ... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />


I know I do <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Terry Pratchett is not the best selling living British author for nothing <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Edit: I rather enjoyed Child Of Chaos myself. A pleasant way to add depth to the game <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Abanyir Re: How is the novel that comes with Beyond? - 06/06/04 11:24 AM
Well, it's not really a 'bad' thing (I mean there is a reason why I have read every Discworld novel plus some of the others) - just that anything Rhianna writes will be compared to her fathers work and personally, in that situation, I would want to distance myself from that and create my own style.

Still, who am I to complain - you can't go wrong with more of that Pratchett style humour <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

(It's easier to criticise than create too).
Posted By: kiya Re: How is the novel that comes with Beyond? - 06/06/04 11:48 AM
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Abanyir:
you can't go wrong with more of that Pratchett style humour

I agree - and the prospect of having 2 authors with a similar humour to enjoy in future makes me happy (this won't go for my book shelves though, are nearly full).

It may only be me - but Rhianna's humour is slightly different - has a female touch <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" />
Kiya
Actually, that's probably JK Rowling by now Elliot <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/disagree.gif" alt="" />
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Actually, that's probably JK Rowling by now Elliot <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/disagree.gif" alt="" />


Not for long, Leather_Raven. Let her release the 2 remaining books and wait a year or two before she'll be forgotten.
J.K. Rowling = The Spice Girls of literature <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />
I enjoyed the novella very much. I spend 2 wonderful afternoons reading it and I must admit that thank Gods Rhianna wrote it in such a way that even I could understand it and enjoy it. When I read that a novella is going to be published I was afraid that I would have to sleep with my dictionary for sometime till I finish it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />
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Actually, that's probably JK Rowling by now Elliot <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/disagree.gif" alt="" />


Not at the rate your father writes books, Rhianna <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Roughly two a year - and all are guaranteed best sellers throughout the world <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Rowling sells enormous amounts of books, sure, but I doubt she outsells Terry at the rate of roughly 6-1 - which she'd have to to have even a chance of competing for that title <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I think the king's crown is pretty safe for now <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

(Should I be looking out for future works by yourself any time soon, BTW? There may be such a thing as too many Cooks - but there can never be too many Pratchetts <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)
Hey, Ok, I'm the kid here! Let me in, let me in! *Big people <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> *
I have read a bunch of Pratchett seinor's books now, and all are hillarious IHMO. I have read the J K Rowling books, grea first read! 2nd time through, um, yea. third time through, whats a spleen do?

Terry Pratcheet. LOL!!! Next time. LOL!!! Next time. Whats a spleen do? Let me check page 72, LOL!!!
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It may only be me - but Rhianna's humour is slightly different - has a female touch <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" />
Kiya


Can you generally tell? I frequently mistake an author's gender (though, on FF.net, I assume that everyone is female until proven/indicated/stated otherwise).
I'll have to check on that, but one of the key things is that Harry Potter is huge in the States, whereas dad has taken a while to really get going there and it's only in the last couple of years with books like Maurice and Wee Free Men that things have started to pick up.

As an aside, I ended up having to pick up an award on behalf of my dad last night for ‘Best Author’ at the SFX (UK SF/Fantasy magazine) awards. The event was so badly organised they had 1) Not invited my dad 2) Not told him he’d won 3) Not told ‘me’ he’d won and therefore that I’d have to go up. I just happened to be there because I do a bit of work for the mag. Madness.
I'd make a satire story out of that. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/badsmile2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
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I'll have to check on that, but one of the key things is that Harry Potter is huge in the States, whereas dad has taken a while to really get going there and it's only in the last couple of years with books like Maurice and Wee Free Men that things have started to pick up.


Against that though, he has a significant time advantage in the rest of the world. where he has been racking up best sellers for a long time before Potter appeared on the scene. In all that time, I don't ever remember seeing a bookshop that didn't stock his books in huge numbers <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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As an aside, I ended up having to pick up an award on behalf of my dad last night for ‘Best Author’ at the SFX (UK SF/Fantasy magazine) awards. The event was so badly organised they had 1) Not invited my dad 2) Not told him he’d won 3) Not told ‘me’ he’d won and therefore that I’d have to go up. I just happened to be there because I do a bit of work for the mag. Madness.


Oh my word! A well deserved win, for sure, but somewhat tainted by the clear ineptitude of the source!

A lot of elbow-wiping amongst the organisers there, I think <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> Or maybe they got carried away and tried to send an invite to Ankh Morpork? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Abanyir Re: How is the novel that comes with Beyond? - 07/06/04 11:48 AM
So, basically, the American's like the books that are aimed at a younger audience??

Perhaps they don't 'get' the humour in the others...

Can't stand all that Harry Potter nonsense by the way, though many people seem to think me crazy for not liking it.
The main appeal in Harry Potter seems to be that "It gets kids to read!"

Since I couldn't care less about kids, well... *grins* HP isn't that awful, though. It's light and fun, and... sellable, I suppose. Has all the elements people want to see. Y'know, Marion Zimmer Bradley wrote an article about publishers. She said that they don't pick manuscripts that are well-written; they just pick ones that sell.
Posted By: kiya Re: How is the novel that comes with Beyond? - 07/06/04 12:27 PM
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It may only be me - but Rhianna's humour is slightly different - has a female touch <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" />
Kiya


Winterfox:
Can you generally tell? I frequently mistake an author's gender (though, on FF.net, I assume that everyone is female until proven/indicated/stated otherwise).


I can't talk for the internet, as reading large passages on a monitor is too strenuous for me - only for books: yes, I can tell for adult ones - I'm a bit in trouble when it comes to youth books there.
Kiya
Kiya is right.

It isn't always true, but you can usually tell the sex of the author from the way they write characters (Or at least that's how I do it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />). It is very rare for a man to write women well, and vice versa.

Both sexes understand each other imperfectly - and it shows <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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Kiya is right.

It isn't always true, but you can usually tell the sex of the author from the way they write characters (Or at least that's how I do it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />). It is very rare for a man to write women well, and vice versa.

Both sexes understand each other imperfectly - and it shows <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


True to an extent. Here are some generalizations (and of course, there are always exceptions, and good authors don't fit into this anyway)--

1. Female authors generally choreograph, say, combat more poorly. The more gritty details will not be there. (Keeping this to fantasy genre, most heroines will wield long swords and not, say, battleaxes. They'll cut things up and get cut, but things like getting punched and having to spit out teeth are rarely included.)

2. Bad female authors write male characters as protective, sensitive -- the perfect mates. Bad male authors write female characters as fluffy, understanding, sexy -- the perfect women, with exaggerated feminine attributes. Regardless of the author's gender, romances almost always end up happy.

3. Bad female authors overdo emotions; bad male authors overdo action.

4. Bad female authors write female characters as pure-hearted, beautiful and delicate yet deadly, intelligent and witty yet understanding, can engage in action with the best of them but still have amazing motherly instincts. "Strong" female characters, from them, are male-bashing and obnoxious (but get worshipped regardless). Bad male authors write male characters as authority-defying rogues whose charms no woman can resist.
Posted By: kiya Re: How is the novel that comes with Beyond? - 07/06/04 01:16 PM
Ok, this is about cliches, Winterfox - I wouldn't call these authors bad though - just feeding cliche dreams their readers (might) have. I originally meant a difference in humour though. Male/female humour differs in nuances.

One point I would like to add to your list => female authors use more details in their description of their environment, colours etc.
Kiya

Devilish edit after Elliot's post:
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Winterfox:
Bad female authors write female characters as pure-hearted, beautiful and delicate yet deadly, intelligent and witty yet understanding, can engage in action with the best of them but still have amazing motherly instincts. "Strong" female characters, from them, are male-bashing and obnoxious (but get worshipped regardless).


Well, I'd call this a perfect, realistic and true description of every average female in RL - (except the delicate and mother part, have to think about obnoxious, wish the understanding part would give way to evolution - finally, think we deserve worship in any case <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shame.gif" alt="" /> Sorry, couldn't resist in a very pure-hearted way <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" /> )
Also, women concentrate on emotion more; men on thought <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

All in all, I agree with Kiya & Winterfox though <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

The humour difference is there, but it is a very subtle thing, and not always obvious (At least to a guy <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)
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I'll have to check on that, but one of the key things is that Harry Potter is huge in the States, whereas dad has taken a while to really get going there and it's only in the last couple of years with books like Maurice and Wee Free Men that things have started to pick up.

I wouldn't call that a big achievement for J.K. Rowling, Leather_Raven.
IMHO, everything with a bit of advertizing can sell in America.
I have a suspicion about Harry Potter, though.
Imagine this-
A single elementary school teacher on welfare writes a book. A year later, her character becomes a cult symbol and she writes another book. Soon the market is overrun with her books and related merchandize. A movie giant has a nice share of it all...
HOW can this happen? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
It's actually more than just advertising Deathatthedoor, it's about your publisher, your agent, product placement etc. I have nothing particular against J K Rowling, I have never read the books, and probably never will, although I've seen the first two films. There are definitely children's fantasy authors like Diana Wynn Jones and Ursula K. Le Guin whose books should have got the attention that the Potter books have received (in my opinion). But it was a case of the right thing coming along at the right time. Having said that, Potter mania has helped boosted children's fantasy book sales in general, and also adult ones I believe, which can't be a bad thing.
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Ok, this is about cliches, Winterfox - I wouldn't call these authors bad though - just feeding cliche dreams their readers (might) have. I originally meant a difference in humour though. Male/female humour differs in nuances.

One point I would like to add to your list => female authors use more details in their description of their environment, colours etc.
Kiya

Devilish edit after Elliot's post:
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Winterfox:
Bad female authors write female characters as pure-hearted, beautiful and delicate yet deadly, intelligent and witty yet understanding, can engage in action with the best of them but still have amazing motherly instincts. "Strong" female characters, from them, are male-bashing and obnoxious (but get worshipped regardless).


Well, I'd call this a perfect, realistic and true description of every average female in RL - (except the delicate and mother part, have to think about obnoxious, wish the understanding part would give way to evolution - finally, think we deserve worship in any case <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shame.gif" alt="" /> Sorry, couldn't resist in a very pure-hearted way <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" /> )


Can I borrow your halo, Kiya? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: kiya Re: How is the novel that comes with Beyond? - 07/06/04 04:34 PM
[Linked Image] Sure, Elliot, be my guest - but I warn you, this halo changes gender.
Kiya

Edit after Elliot's post:
Nono, this halo is a patch, of course - only changes from worse to better... a very intelligent one, erasing everything, until you meet the requirements Winterfox has listed up already. Sadly incompatible with male code, so it changes this as well <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/kissyou.gif" alt="" />
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[Linked Image] Sure, Elliot, be my guest - but I warn you, this halo changes gender.
Kiya


You mean you were once a man? I would NEVER have guessed! Really, Kiya, you have adapted brilliantly! But you can keep the halo! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />
That reminds me of how the German Forummember got the name Anthea (also in <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> ) :

This female Elf had once decided to wear a cursed belt of GenderChance ...

(Meaning he was once an Elf. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> )

Anyway, he is a good role-player (he is indeeed in real life male) , but since he married he hardly ever shows up here again. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

i didnt really care much for the novel.. it was easy reading.... i just kept reading to find out what the gods were up to, and their next comical action would b <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

i felt sorry for the imps though :P was a good story.....
Posted By: Ghaleor Re: How is the novel that comes with Beyond? - 07/06/04 09:05 PM
That's weird, I did not even KNOW about Rhianna Pratchett and her father. I never saw one of their books... I'm living in Belgium though...
I know SOME English writer, but my knowledge is limited... But I have my dose of Dutch literature <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />.

About Harry Potter, that is indeed a big marketing blow. All that merchandizing...
I mean the books are ok, the movie's... m'yeah, why not... But c'mon... dolls, board games, and even plastic BROOMSTICKS?

Too much merchandizing kills the popularity of a book <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/disagree.gif" alt="" />.
It minimize it to a big money buster.

I'm 17, and I like those books. Lots of fantasy, and I quite like fantasy. Even if I think the 5th book was a bit of the mark, it's still a good read in the first go. Only problem, it's boring to read it many tims over. Not the best book in the world ( damn merchandising ) but still good.

Just for information, could any of you give some title's of Rhianna Pratchett's father so I could look it up? I like reading books, English, French or Dutch <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />. Just got trough ''Max Havelaar'' from Dutch author Multatuli ( Edouard Douwes Dekker ) And it was... euh... ''special''.

If the books of Pratchett have some humor, I could use it to... relax a bit <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />.
Teacher's always want's you to read... difficult books, so I got my load of '' seriousness'' ( Kosinski's ''Painted Bird'' depressed me emotionnaly... good book, but that is REALLY to make yourself shiver )
Tsk tsk! How DARE you not have heard of Terry Pratchett <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />.
I have 31 books: 26 novels, Science of Discworld 1, Nanny Ogg's Cookbook, The Last Hero and Good Omens (I am a Gaiman fan).
Started with Guards!Guards! and would reccomend everyone to start with this book.

As for humour, I'll let yourself to judge. I know no one's sense of humour is alike so I will keep silent <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.
My favourite Terry Pratchett books are Soul Music which introduces Susan Sto Helit - probably my favourite Pratchett character - Interesting Times in which the 90 odd year old Cohen The Barbarian attempts to conquer an empire using a bare handful of old men, and Men At Arms in which the Ankh Morpork City Watch get a few rather interesting new recruits...

As a general rule though, you can't go wrong with anything with Susan or the Ankh Morpork City Watch in it.

All the Discworld novels are at least readable, and many are utterly superb, but Susan, Carrot and Sir Samuel Vimes are Pratchett's strongest characters, IMO.

If you want something non-Discworld related, Good Omens is an excellent (As recommended by DATD, above) standalone.

***

DATD...

As you are a Gaiman fan, I'd love to hear your thoughts on comparisons between Harry Potter and Tim Hunter. Coincidence? Or not?
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As you are a Gaiman fan, I'd love to hear your thoughts on comparisons between Harry Potter and Tim Hunter. Coincidence? Or not?

I haven't read much of Gaiman yet but I suppose you mean the hero character of Book of Magic?
I think it's not a coincidance but if I recall correctly (correct me if I am wrong), Book of Magic was released before Harry Potter, no?
By any means, I cannot comment on that one because all I have is a preview at the end of Sandman: Preludes and Nocturnes.

About the novel:
It's a fine novel, Leather_Raven. I feel a hint of Douglas Adams but that's probably just me. As kiya, who is a finer reader than myself, already stated, the style is similar to a female version of Terry Pratchett, which is quite convinient.
Good of you of putting The King in the temple's statue room.

Your father should be proud of you.
*Applauds*
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Ok, this is about cliches, Winterfox - I wouldn't call these authors bad though - just feeding cliche dreams their readers (might) have. I originally meant a difference in humour though.


Well, another name for these writers is "hack writer." (The "feeding cliches to readers" part, at any rate.) I wouldn't call them good.

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Well, I'd call this a perfect, realistic and true description of every average female in RL - (except the delicate and mother part, have to think about obnoxious, wish the understanding part would give way to evolution - finally, think we deserve worship in any case <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shame.gif" alt="" /> Sorry, couldn't resist in a very pure-hearted way <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" /> )


I hope you're joking. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

The characters I'm talking about are either wish-fulfillment or idealized caricatures. Here's an essay/rant I wrote about them; these spawns of bad authorship are called Mary Sues. Found in fanfiction, original fiction, and even professionally published fiction, particularly rampant in the fantasy genre.

Elliot_Kane said:

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Also, women concentrate on emotion more; men on thought <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Wow, then I must write like a man. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
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As you are a Gaiman fan, I'd love to hear your thoughts on comparisons between Harry Potter and Tim Hunter. Coincidence? Or not?

I haven't read much of Gaiman yet but I suppose you mean the hero character of Book of Magic?
I think it's not a coincidance but if I recall correctly (correct me if I am wrong), Book of Magic was released before Harry Potter, no?
By any means, I cannot comment on that one because all I have is a preview at the end of Sandman: Preludes and Nocturnes.


Yeah, that's Tim - who is by far the older character, as you say <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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Elliot_Kane said:

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Also, women concentrate on emotion more; men on thought <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Wow, then I must write like a man. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />


Could be <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Kejero Re: How is the novel that comes with Beyond? - 08/06/04 09:44 AM
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Too much merchandizing kills the popularity of a book <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/disagree.gif" alt="" />.


True, Harry Potter is way overhyped, and because hyped products often disappoint in the end, many people aren't even interested in giving it a try.
But hey, the story of the writer is so beautiful: barely enough money to raise her kid(s), then she got a chance and she grabbed it, and it made her so rich she'll never have to worry (financially) about anything else but the things she likes to do... Can't blame her <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
My opinion on Harry Potter: The books are a fun read, I like the plots, they're books for children and they're perfect for what they're supposed to be.
The movies (first two) were soulless (as is every movie I've seen from Columbus), horribly directed and horribly acted (except for a few... exceptions). The photography was alright though, and the music is great. But i'm not gonna make this a full review <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />
I'm curious to see the third movie - Never thought to see Gary Oldman in a movie like this <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" />

Haven't read Rhi's novella yet - It just arrived yesterday <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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The movies (first two) were soulless (as is every movie I've seen from Columbus), horribly directed and horribly acted (except for a few... exceptions).


My thoughts exactly...and I've seen the thrid one now (GF wanted to go is my excuse) - and it's not quite as bad as the first 2 (particually the second which I really really hated) but the third film had that same chopped up feeling as though a scene or two was missing inbetween every scene that was included.

Posted By: Ghaleor Re: How is the novel that comes with Beyond? - 08/06/04 04:26 PM
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My favourite Terry Pratchett books are Soul Music which introduces Susan Sto Helit - probably my favourite Pratchett character - Interesting Times in which the 90 odd year old Cohen The Barbarian attempts to conquer an empire using a bare handful of old men, and Men At Arms in which the Ankh Morpork City Watch get a few rather interesting new recruits...

As a general rule though, you can't go wrong with anything with Susan or the Ankh Morpork City Watch in it.

All the Discworld novels are at least readable, and many are utterly superb, but Susan, Carrot and Sir Samuel Vimes are Pratchett's strongest characters, IMO.

If you want something non-Discworld related, Good Omens is an excellent (As recommended by DATD, above) standalone.

***

DATD...

As you are a Gaiman fan, I'd love to hear your thoughts on comparisons between Harry Potter and Tim Hunter. Coincidence? Or not?


I'll look that up to give it a shot <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" />
Could ben my kind of humor or not, who could tell? I will see how it goes.
6 books in a row tlaking about war, genocide, poverty, brainwashing and sexual agressions ( the emotions and feelings in this book were pretty well written, like in any other books of that Dutch Author )

So... every way to read something new that can make me laugh/smile is always good <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />.

I just fear the local library will not have it, tough.

Oh and it is good for my ''Inglaish'' <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />
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So... every way to read something new that can make me laugh/smile is always good .

I just fear the local library will not have it, tough.


There was a time when every 10th book which was sold in UK was Terry Pratchett's... The library should have it. If not, ask your mayor for an authorisation of burning it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />.
Posted By: Ghaleor Re: How is the novel that comes with Beyond? - 08/06/04 05:41 PM
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So... every way to read something new that can make me laugh/smile is always good .

I just fear the local library will not have it, tough.


There was a time when every 10th book which was sold in UK was Terry Pratchett's... The library should have it. If not, ask your mayor for an authorisation of burning it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />.


I'll work on it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />
But, in Belgium, especially where I live ( the most north-western community near the coast at the French frontier ) things are not as easy to get <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />.

I have to travel often to get something elsewhere...

Ah, mais je crois qu'il ya plusieurs livres traduits en Francais.
Parcontre je te conseillerais lire l'original.
Posted By: kiya Re: How is the novel that comes with Beyond? - 08/06/04 06:06 PM
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Death:
There was a time when every 10th book which was sold in UK was Terry Pratchett's... The library should have it. If not, ask your mayor for an authorisation of burning it .


Oh, Death - did you know my library boycotted TP? And when I was in charge of novels from K-Z.... guess, what I did? There were days my colleagues complained endlessly (when the Discworld cycle books came back within days and flooded our newcomer shelves...)
And then? I had faithfully bought all - ONLY to read complaints from members: WHERE is a new TP book? Luckily the last one is always in the German bestseller list now, so I "have" to buy it <smug grin>
Kiya

PS: I've got them all privately, of course - including "Omen". I tried reading Gaiman solo books, last one was "American Gods" => didn't like it, maybe a translation issue.
Why on earth did they boycott TP books?
Posted By: kiya Re: How is the novel that comes with Beyond? - 08/06/04 06:13 PM
Ah, sad story, Rhianna => fantasy is not considered a very high literature level in German temples of knowledge, wisdom and whatsoever - please, don't shoot the messenger now. You see, older librarians still favour the "educational" book - and I was the only fantasy fan in that library, besides my youth section colleague, of course.

But things are changing - those librarians with the virtues of the 70es are slowly going into pension.
Kiya

I can give you more examples => comics for adults were considered a No-no - you know those Grimm fairy tales? In the 70es they were considered to be brutal, make kids bad, raise sadistic instincts. And well, specially heroic fantasy (no, not TP) was considered as patriarchic, conservative, full of cliches. I still recall a terrible conference, where Tolkien's LOTR was ripped apart verbally - and with the aid of literature critic reviews as proof. Germany does not have this fantasy tradition, it's purely UK (and later on US) - so, adaption was a bit difficult.
Kiya...

Just say that Terry Pratchett writes very good books on philosophy disguised as fiction to persuade people to read them <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

I doubt that's the reason he does write the books, but the philosophy is as good as any you'll find in traditional works. An added source of pleasure from my POV <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Definitely sounds to me like a lot of senior German librarians have never actually read a story book in their lives, though...
Posted By: kiya Re: How is the novel that comes with Beyond? - 08/06/04 06:45 PM
Hey, we've got all TP books now <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> - I'm in charge... Yes, Elliot, you are correct => as I said: fantasy is not a typical German genre (at least was not in the 70es). You in the UK are lucky: you've got Nesbitt, Lewis => so kids were trained to read this from childhood on. Our literature history is different - or was different. Adaption is coming, but if you would read some reviews from (old) librarians... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ouch.gif" alt="" />

I was brought up with UK fantasy kid books/comics in overseas - so, my parents never "knew" how much harm they were doing to me <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" />
Kiya
We do have a great tradition of fantasy & SF writers, I have to admit. Growing up in Britain, you just regard it as another available reading option and make up your own mind.

The Hobbit hooked me, IIRC, and I haven't looked back <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

The US has many fine fantasy writers too, though IMO the top two current fantasy writers are both British - Terry Pratchett and David Gemmell. Both are unique and extremely talented writers. Which is best depends on my mood though, I must admit, as their writing styles are very, very different.
Posted By: kiya Re: How is the novel that comes with Beyond? - 08/06/04 07:10 PM
I agree - that's why I'm very seldom hooked on German writers and why my view is different (leading to heated discussions then) ; my "training" was in English youth books - tending to the UK/US side. Later on - a natural switch - to the adult fantasy section.Give us 10 more yrs, then the last "educational" librarian dinosaur has gone, and fantasy will be a genre, just like any other - even in literature critics eyes.
Kiya
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I tried reading Gaiman solo books, last one was "American Gods" => didn't like it, maybe a translation issue.


That was the book which woke my interest in Gaiman's works.
A fabulous book but everyone's tastes are different so I am not surprised you don't like it. Maybe you should try to read the english version?

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Just say that Terry Pratchett writes very good books on philosophy disguised as fiction to persuade people to read them

I discovered so many things while reading Science of the Discworld <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: kiya Re: How is the novel that comes with Beyond? - 08/06/04 07:40 PM
Death, my English is not so good to understand adult literature - and when it comes to slang, idioms, phrases => I have to look these up <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shame.gif" alt="" /> - so, I keep on losing track of the plot.
Kiya
Yes, I understand. The Eye of the World was the first book I read in English and Guards! Guards! was probably the second <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />.
I just realised... I don't think I could even name a single German novelist! The only works I have by German authors are non-fiction...
Posted By: kiya Re: How is the novel that comes with Beyond? - 08/06/04 09:27 PM
Kiesow is a German fantasy author, based on DSA not AD&D - but... <nervously looking around> he's... let me put it this way: I couldn't read him.

Quite interesting ones are Hohlbein, but just the ones he and his wife have really written for kids/youths. If he writes solo, he drifts into the Stephen King sector.

But I'm sure, you know Michael Ende, hm? The Neverending Story? NO, not the film, Steven Spielberg committed a major crime with that <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/memad.gif" alt="" /> (ruined the whole wonderfully composed plot with his stupid Disney effects) - or, Momo?
Kiya
Er... Nope! Sorry Kiya, but none of those ring a bell... I had no idea Neverending Story was ever a book.

It seems my ignorance of German authors is indeed complete...
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