Larian Studios
Posted By: instant Question regarding CD - 06/06/04 12:30 PM
Hi,

I have a few questions regarding the CD in Beyond Divinity.

1. Does the game require Cd-In-Drive to play?

2. Are there plans to release a patch that removes this requirement?

I know many people are eager to play this game, but are put off by the requirements to have the cd-in-the-drive while playing.


Thanks.

btw: Loved Divine Divinity.



Posted By: Rythok Re: Question regarding CD - 06/06/04 12:40 PM
Yes you need the second cd in the drive, but I wonder why people wouldnt play a game because of that.
Posted By: Lynn Re: Question regarding CD - 06/06/04 12:48 PM
Hi,

And welcome in our forum <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

Yes, the game-cd needs to be in the drive and we won't bring out a patch for this, for playing without the game-cd.
This is part of the copy-protection.

Hope you understand this.

Best,
Lynn
Posted By: Lynn Re: Question regarding CD - 06/06/04 12:50 PM
Quote
... but I wonder why people wouldnt play a game because of that.

True... I don't see a reason for that either.
Isn't this the case with most PC games, that you need the game-disk in the drive?
Posted By: Abanyir Re: Question regarding CD - 06/06/04 01:36 PM
Yes, almost all games require the CD in the drive.

I know people though that hate having to put the CD in the drive, and even though they own legitimate copies of games will still download no-cd hacks so they don't have to.

I generally just play one game at a time though so it is not an issue for me - I suppose if you have several on the go at a time and have to keep swapping CD's it could be a pain...
Posted By: DEATHATTHEDOOR Re: Question regarding CD - 06/06/04 01:38 PM
One word (or picture):
[Linked Image]
Posted By: Yannos Re: Question regarding CD - 06/06/04 02:16 PM
I have to agree with DATD, I can't imagine me NOT buying a game because you can't play it without a cd.
Posted By: Chacranajxy Re: Question regarding CD - 06/06/04 02:42 PM
The game does require a CD in the drive and it does an annoying copy protection scan that takes longer than I'd like...... but it's better than allowing people to steal the game and it's not that bad.
Posted By: instant Re: Question regarding CD - 06/06/04 08:12 PM
Quote
Quote
... but I wonder why people wouldnt play a game because of that.

True... I don't see a reason for that either.
Isn't this the case with most PC games, that you need the game-disk in the drive?


Well, some games do require it, others do not (Savage for example). Or get patches that remove it latter. (UT2004 for example)

Since I swap between a fair number of games, and I have a tray-cd/dvd/rw-rom, its a huge annoyance factor to have to switch cd's.. especially when I have the full game installed on my computer.

Hope you remove it in a latter patch hehe

Regarding unlicensed distribution/gaming (a.k.a piracy): Most games that are available as 'warez' did require the cd-in-the-drive, but that did'nt stop anyone.

Posted By: Morbo Re: Question regarding CD - 06/06/04 08:44 PM
The starforce protection is ver good one. I don't believe it's cracked yet.
Posted By: DEATHATTHEDOOR Re: Question regarding CD - 06/06/04 09:46 PM
It is. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shhh.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Morbo Re: Question regarding CD - 06/06/04 09:59 PM
well I havent seen iso a of <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" /> on the net yet
Posted By: Jurak Re: Question regarding CD - 06/06/04 10:02 PM
seen iso a of

translation please! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/stupid.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: DEATHATTHEDOOR Re: Question regarding CD - 06/06/04 10:53 PM
I've just checked and found several.
Posted By: HandEFood Re: Question regarding CD - 07/06/04 04:51 AM
Quote
seen iso a of

translation please! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/stupid.gif" alt="" />

Should read: "seen an iso of"

An ISO file is a copy of a CD. 800Mb of raw data ready to be burnt to disc!
Posted By: corwin Re: Question regarding CD - 07/06/04 06:29 AM
There is one very important reason that people don't like having a CD in the computer. Degradation of the CD. I know several people who have had their game CD's damaged or destroyed by over-use. (NWN leaps to mind) Using a no-CD patch prevents this. Unfortunately, copy protection really only keeps the honest people honest. Those who thrive on Piracy, will always find a way!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/suspicion.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: ForkTong Re: Question regarding CD - 07/06/04 10:19 AM
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I've just checked and found several.


Non-working ones.
Posted By: Yannos Re: Question regarding CD - 07/06/04 11:43 AM
Good to hear that <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Morbo Re: Question regarding CD - 07/06/04 11:45 AM
Believe me i go to a infotmatic school. I would know if theire was an ISO of it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mage.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: DEATHATTHEDOOR Re: Question regarding CD - 07/06/04 12:04 PM
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Well, some games do require it, others do not (Savage for example). Or get patches that remove it latter. (UT2004 for example)

Since I swap between a fair number of games, and I have a tray-cd/dvd/rw-rom, its a huge annoyance factor to have to switch cd's.. especially when I have the full game installed on my computer.


Why do you play 'a fair number of games' at the same time, then?


Quote
Regarding unlicensed distribution/gaming (a.k.a piracy): Most games that are available as 'warez' did require the cd-in-the-drive, but that did'nt stop anyone.


Most games that are available as warez do not require the cd-in-the-drive because 'most games that are available as warez' are warez, hence they are cracked. Most of the time this it's a NoCD crack.


Quote
Quote
I've just checked and found several.


Non-working ones.


Hmm... but how do you know? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />
Also, what else could've you said? If you said "they all work" it would've meant every lurker arround those parts would've run a search on Google to find those "working versions". Just wondering <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" />
I'd go check but I already gave my word I won't download Larian's.

Quote
Believe me i go to a infotmatic school. I would know if theire was an ISO of it.

I have my sources. I know they work because I have a proof. I won't cite my sources for obvious reasons.
It's not an ISO but bin/cue files.
Posted By: Viper Re: Question regarding CD - 07/06/04 12:17 PM
imho this cd-check / copy protection thing will be a difficult one to crack... I hope so anyway.
Posted By: kiya Re: Question regarding CD - 07/06/04 12:20 PM
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Instant:
Hope you remove it in a latter patch hehe


Please, keep in mind, I'm naive when it comes to piracy, ISO, crack etc. and I'm not insinuating, you are one, ok?
I'd just like to know this => is it convenient/usual to ask a Developer/publisher to develop a patch depriving them of copy protection? As you gave an example (and I don't play UT) - did the Devs/publishers produce this no-CD patch themselves?

I'd be grateful to learn more about this - thanks anyone in advance. My knowledge about copyright is solely on the book sector.
Kiya <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: BosjeR Re: Question regarding CD - 07/06/04 01:35 PM
Games like UT and also Q3 removed the cd check in later updates quite some time after their release (for Q3 that is, dunno about UT). I think they did this because the game was primarly an online game and in order to play it online you needed to have a working cd-key (which couldn't be generated by a keygen).

Not sure though, could have some other reasons.
Posted By: DEATHATTHEDOOR Re: Question regarding CD - 07/06/04 02:07 PM
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imho this cd-check / copy protection thing will be a difficult one to crack... I hope so anyway.


Nah, cd-check was used for too long. Not only it's easily cracked but several cd-copy programs successfully bypass it.
I think Starforce is a rather lousy protection. Sure it's a bit more difficult to crack but it eats computer memory like a hungry hippo. I think the best so far was SecuROM, but again, it's damn too old.
Posted By: instant Re: Question regarding CD - 07/06/04 04:35 PM
Quote
Quote
Instant:
Hope you remove it in a latter patch hehe


Please, keep in mind, I'm naive when it comes to piracy, ISO, crack etc. and I'm not insinuating, you are one, ok?
I'd just like to know this => is it convenient/usual to ask a Developer/publisher to develop a patch depriving them of copy protection? As you gave an example (and I don't play UT) - did the Devs/publishers produce this no-CD patch themselves?

I'd be grateful to learn more about this - thanks anyone in advance. My knowledge about copyright is solely on the book sector.
Kiya <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />


An UT2004 patch, 3336 i believe, removed the requirement for the CD-in-drive.
This was the reason for me purchasing it.. I did'nt want to be annoyed with cd's, so I waited untill they removed that requirement.

They did the same with UT2003 if I remember correctly.

Its not about Copyright however, as the owners of the media have the rights, regardless of the cd being in the drive or not.

When UT2004 was released at first, it did require cd in drive, but there were already patches available for it - that removed this requirement (These were developed by 3rd parties not affiliated with the makers of UT2004)

Its very convenient to ask the publisher/developer, as they are the ones responsible for putting it there in the first place, and its the first place to go to voice your oppinion on the subject and ask for their stance/reasons/plans, so as to evaluate wheter or not to make a purchase.

I really want to play BD, since I loved DD, but I dont want to have the cd in the drive when I do so, for many reasons.


Posted By: DEATHATTHEDOOR Re: Question regarding CD - 07/06/04 05:10 PM
I am sorry but whoever buys games based on the fact if it requires cd in drive or not, probably won't figure out how to move his character in Beyond Divinity.

Sometimes I want to link some topics here to SomethingAwful.com
Posted By: kiya Re: Question regarding CD - 07/06/04 05:26 PM
@Instant - thank you for explaining patiently <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" /> - but I have one last question: Could it be, UT copy protection was taken out, as it is a MP game? Do you know of any other single player game (with NO MP possibility at all), where the Devs/publishers released a no-CD patch? (Fans don't count) - A real official patch.
Kiya <even more confused>
Posted By: instant Re: Question regarding CD - 07/06/04 10:10 PM
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@Instant - thank you for explaining patiently <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" /> - but I have one last question: Could it be, UT copy protection was taken out, as it is a MP game? Do you know of any other single player game (with NO MP possibility at all), where the Devs/publishers released a no-CD patch? (Fans don't count) - A real official patch.
Kiya <even more confused>


It is not a copy protection, it is a copy restriction.

However, yes, most likely it was taken out because the game is primarily aimed at MP, although you can play a lot in singleplayer or in LAN, and also use the Editor tools for creating content. I dont understand why they put it in - in the first place - as installing such costs money, and causes issues with games.

I do not recal any singleplayer game that has not required the cd-in-drive, but I am sure there are some. Yes; Gothic did not require cd in drive. Probably more.

Most of these games have no-cd patches available, created by fans or those distributing the unlicensed version, defeating the whole purpose of requiring the cd to be in the drive in the first place. So in the end - the only ones harmed by requiring cd in drive, are the legitimate customers.

But, lets say nobody has allowed legitimate owners of a game title to play it without having the cd in drive - after having spent gigabytes of hd space for the title, that does'nt mean they are doing something right (the publishers/developers), or that its a good idea.

Why not be the first to not harm customers with such methods and instead allow the to enjoy the game - they purchased - without the annoyance of a cd spinning wildly in the -rom.

Posted By: instant Re: Question regarding CD - 07/06/04 10:11 PM
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I am sorry but whoever buys games based on the fact if it requires cd in drive or not, probably won't figure out how to move his character in Beyond Divinity.



You win prize.

Posted By: DEATHATTHEDOOR Re: Question regarding CD - 07/06/04 10:29 PM
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Most of these games have no-cd patches available, created by fans


Yes, *cought* "fans".
Posted By: kiya Re: Question regarding CD - 07/06/04 10:55 PM
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@Instant:
Most of these games have no-cd patches available, created by fans or those distributing the unlicensed version, defeating the whole purpose of requiring the cd to be in the drive in the first place. So in the end - the only ones harmed by requiring cd in drive, are the legitimate customers.


If this is done from unofficial side - it's a crack and no patch then, right? If I understood the meaning of the word "patch" correctly => solely something the Devs/publishers do, to erase code program errors.

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@Instant
But, lets say nobody has allowed legitimate owners of a game title to play it without having the cd in drive - after having spent gigabytes of hd space for the title, that does'nt mean they are doing something right (the publishers/developers), or that its a good idea


Do you know a working different method to assure games are not pirated - if copy protection is not the correct one?

I know games from disk times, where I had to type in manual key words or move circles to find the correct icon (Monkey Island e.g.) - but this didn't work either. Manuals were simply copied, this icon stuff was copied, so gamers could cut it out and use it. What about a hardlock key then? But these USB things cost a lot of money and the consumer will have to pay for it - and as these would not fit into Euro cases or DVD boxes, package costs are higher as well. Maybe online registration then? And what about gamers without internet? Having to write a post card first. And then a Black market for numbers would be created and...
Kiya
Posted By: janggut Re: Question regarding CD - 08/06/04 01:29 AM
there is a limit to it, yes, kiya, u're right.

the cd copy protection is meant to stop casual copying. meaning, u cannot just pop <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" /> cd in a cd writer & start copying the content out to a blank cd.

if it cannot stop the pirates, what's the point? well, those are professionals, well, at least their skills in hacks are of professional levels. u cannot stop a thief from stealing gold from fort knox, IF he/she sets his/her mind to it & is skilled enough to pull it off. no such thing as security. it's just relative, like einstein said it.

warez are made by those who are highly skilled in hacking the games' protection & get them work without. it's a fact nobody can deny. give them maximum of 2 months & u'll see the crackz (anything that ends with 'z' is seemingly bad) on the net. they're as good at cracking as the copy protection writer are at protecting.

patch - normally made by developers, publishers to fix/enhance a game/software
crack - made by pirates to nullify copy-protection or limit imposed by developers or publishers on a game/software
warez - complete package made by pirates which u can install as if it's legitimate but without copy protection or limit.

hope that helps, kiya.

instant, i do agree on wanting the same thing as u do; no-cd patch so i can play without worrying about the cd getting worn out. however larians will have to protect their 'rice bowl' (chinese way of saying means of living or source of food). otherwise people can just casually copy their work & pass them around like e-mailed jokes. i rather my cd wear out. or find on the net the no-cd crack.
Posted By: janggut Re: Question regarding CD - 08/06/04 02:17 AM
don't know how true or ethical is this but, if u must know about it; GameJackal is a program for gamers that want to play their fav games without the cd's in the drive.
Posted By: honourcobain Re: Question regarding CD - 08/06/04 06:37 AM
there are no way to stop warez i think..and i share the same thoughts about the CD requirement...CD requirement force just US (legal players) to put the cd in to the drive but not the thieves..(:( my game doesnt arrived yet but i know some illegal game traders who sell totally cracked Beyond Divinity CDs..you install the game and copy the cracked exe file..its done...And No CD Requirements of course!)
there are many web sites where you can find a Non-CD Cracked exe file too..you copy the file in to the install directory and the whole CD protection is a history..i know even one for Beyind Divinity!!..Coder Groups like "Deviance" or many other coder groups profession starts with cracking CD protection! Earning money from some countrys CD Mafias!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> yes it sound a bit funny or dramatic but its true, there are many underground traders who make big big money from PC Games...they copy thousends of the games and put the cracked file in to the CD..thats it!! In countrys like Turkey, Indonesia, India, Philiphines, Korea, where people cant afford or wont afford 40-50 $ for CD games but cant live without Games too, Underground Traders are like legal stores!!! you go, give 2 dolars and own the game and even play without cd requirement, How can you stop this without regional copyright controls??!!!! But people like Me and you paying twice! 1 for the game (thats ok) and the second for CD Drive (CD-ROM spinning life-span, reading life-span, mechanical life-span (put the game in..take it out)... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/puppyeyes.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Kejero Re: Question regarding CD - 08/06/04 08:51 AM
I don't get people who consider swapping cd's annoying... For crying out loud, how much effort does it take? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ouch.gif" alt="" /> It's sad if something like that is enough to irritate someone -- apparently they don't know any better (read: worse) and they don't realize how happy they should be that they don't [know any better]. Geez. Don't mean to sound hippy or anything, just... geez <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/suspicion.gif" alt="" />

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There is one very important reason that people don't like having a CD in the computer. Degradation of the CD. I know several people who have had their game CD's damaged or destroyed by over-use.

It makes sense that a cd would ware off when you use it. However, cd's ware off if you don't use them as well. I have a few games that worked perfectly years ago, and now just can't be read anymore. They say this often happens with copied cd's, but I'm talking about true, official cd-roms. They just don't last forever, despite what they promised us when cd-roms first hit the market. And over-use? Besides during the swapping, I don't see how a cd can get "damaged" -- isn't it just a laser beam reading the surface of the disk? read: no physical contact. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Yeah yeah, I know, just another rant about the same old topic <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: kiya Re: Question regarding CD - 08/06/04 10:41 AM
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honourcobain:
CD requirement force just US (legal players) to put the cd in to the drive but not the thieves

I agree - if you meant it in the sense => the honest ones are "punished". As long as some people do not play by the rules (and I think this will never happen, regardless of products in every trade industry) - the honest will continue to suffer under consequences, created by dishonest ones. Actually, this drives me mad and angers me. Legal industry had to react to piracy/warez etc. I wish, there would be another way - and I hope (one day) some clever person will think up a method to destroy this illegal market.

But again => how can Devs/publishers protect themselves if copy protection is inconvenient? This procedure causes them a lot of work/trouble/money/energies/employer capacity, too (referring to Lar's article about the problems they had to get the German version gold)

As for unplayable CD and the examples I saw listed here => never had a defect CD. There are games I can't play anymore, but due to my new system, not due to hardware - maybe I'm lucky.
Kiya
Posted By: Abanyir Re: Question regarding CD - 08/06/04 10:50 AM
The CD laser does in fact damage the CD over time, though the amount of damage varies from player to player.

The laser slowly burns away at the tracks on the CD until eventually they become unreadable (it is a similar process to what occurs when you write to a CD using a CD writer). With most modern drives, however, you may well never notice any degredation as the damage is so slight - nevertheless, it is there.
Posted By: DocBeard Re: Question regarding CD - 08/06/04 02:35 PM
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But again => how can Devs/publishers protect themselves if copy protection is inconvenient? This procedure causes them a lot of work/trouble/money/energies/employer capacity, too (referring to Lar's article about the problems they had to get the German version gold)


Much as I hate to say it, the answer would seem to be that they can't. Documentation things (having to type in a code from the manual or the CD box) can easily be scanned and passed around nowadays. CD-based protection schemes can be bypassed pretty readily, as the existence of no-CD 'patches' for virtually every game under the sun indicates. If there isn't one for Beyond Divinity yet, and I'm in no position to know whether there is or not, it is certainly only a matter of time.

Copy protection is, in my opinion, a scam that the gaming industry at large has fallen for. By and large, it doesn't work, and often creates more problems for legitimate gamers than it ever does for pirates and thieves. And it isn't simply a matter of convenience; it's no big deal if I have to have a CD in the drive, but it *is* a big deal if the copy protection scheme doesn't like the drive I'm using at all. (Which is not an uncommon problem. SecuROM in particular was/is notorious for this sort of thing.)

Though it's certainly nothing new. Older folks (like me) will probably remember some of the old copy protection schemes used on, for example, the Commodore 64 (beside which some of the modern CD schemes seem positively benign by comparison). I can still hear my poor 1541 disk drive rattling itself to death.

So how do you stop piracy? Maybe you don't. Oh, I'm not saying that copy protection should be abandoned wholesale...well, okay, maybe I am, as it's ultimately just a waste of time and money, but I don't realistically expect that to happen. And, for the most part, it probably doesn't *need* to, as long as those schemes don't make games unplayable.

And, for the record, I buy all of my software. (Er, nowadays. All those C-64 games I, er, acquired as a kid JUST DON'T COUNT, okay? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> )
Posted By: the_bean Re: Question regarding CD - 08/06/04 02:59 PM
copy protection, does work.
it keeps a lot of people from copying these disks.
the people who search for alternatives, and know some "adresses" on the net, are mostely more experianced people.
you don't have a clue how mutch people just know of kazaa. and are spending 2 whole days on downloading a movie.

it does work, but not for anybody.
Posted By: DEATHATTHEDOOR Re: Question regarding CD - 08/06/04 04:38 PM
Quote
The CD laser does in fact damage the CD over time, though the amount of damage varies from player to player.

The laser slowly burns away at the tracks on the CD until eventually they become unreadable (it is a similar process to what occurs when you write to a CD using a CD writer). With most modern drives, however, you may well never notice any degredation as the damage is so slight - nevertheless, it is there.


I have finished Arcanum 3 times and about to finish it once again. The CD still runs well.
I have Dungeon Keeper 2 ever since it was released. I play it very often and it still works.
I have Quest for Glory 1 (New 256 colours, not the 16 colours one) and it still runs well.

I am not saying that laser doesn't burn CDs, no, but even your audio CD player plays CD. Will you ask the artist to release a no-CD patch? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" />

DocBeard,
Very good post. I agree.
My point, though, is: protection companies shouldn't release unfinished protections. Starforce, for example, is very unstable.

the bean. Yes, copy protection does work for those little brats who download something just "cuz itz baaad 2 pyrat!". However kazaa always has no-cd patches and cracks [even if 4/5 of the files of that type you download are RATs, Worms, viruses and Spyware].
Posted By: Plowking Re: Question regarding CD - 08/06/04 04:57 PM
Regarding the issue about the laser doing damage to the CD over time...would it be possible to have it so you do need to use the CD to launch the game (as in the copy protection of BD) but once the game is loaded and the CD checked you could remove it?

I think the CD's need to stay in the drives for most games but why should they if you can copy all the files in a full install to the hard drive. At least then the CD wont be accessed enough to damage it.
Posted By: janggut Re: Question regarding CD - 09/06/04 03:14 AM
plowking, that's a very good idea but not many developers are doing that. i'm sorry i can't remember any games that doesn't check for the cd again after u initialised the game, but i know there are a few that i have which are like that.

it would be great (hopefully without bugs) if larians will consider that in the next game whereby after u start the game, the disc will be ejected so u can keep it & play the game. i recall larians did the auto-eject for DD installation.

deathatthedoor, audio cd's play at 2X whereas game cd's (much like digital data cd's for games & software) run at maximum speed that your cd drive can offer. that is a big difference so that's why u don't get to hear about worn-out audio discs. as for me i've seen quite a lot of worn-out audi discs. mostly due to cheap or defective players.
Posted By: DEATHATTHEDOOR Re: Question regarding CD - 09/06/04 11:18 AM
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deathatthedoor, audio cd's play at 2X whereas game cd's (much like digital data cd's for games & software) run at maximum speed that your cd drive can offer. that is a big difference so that's why u don't get to hear about worn-out audio discs. as for me i've seen quite a lot of worn-out audi discs. mostly due to cheap or defective players.


Ah, I see. Yes you are perfectly right. Haven't thought of it.
Posted By: xAcesx Re: Question regarding CD - 09/06/04 01:17 PM
My drive is going down (read speed dead slow) because of the hammering it gets. Like I've said before, if they want to check if a copy is original, they should do it on the installation, not during the launch of the game.

I have often wondered, what's the point in doing a full install if you still need the disc in? I nearly always download "No-CD" patches for games. I am at the point where I won't buy games that don't have these patches. They can degrade the games performace, and hammer my drives.

And besides, let's not pretend these protections stop people copying the games, piracy is as old as the industry itself. And let's not forget, it is also illegal to copy protect software over here in the UK. Bearing that in mind, it's a bit cheeky calling pirates for breaking the law, isn't it.
Posted By: Plowking Re: Question regarding CD - 09/06/04 02:18 PM
I believe the thinking behind having to need the CD to launch the game is so you can't install it then give it to your friends and so only buying one copy for a load of people.
Posted By: xAcesx Re: Question regarding CD - 09/06/04 04:14 PM
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I believe the thinking behind having to need the CD to launch the game is so you can't install it then give it to your friends and so only buying one copy for a load of people.



Fair comment.

But what's to stop me playing the game, and completing it, and then borrowing it to a friend? Again, this is no excuse...
Posted By: Plowking Re: Question regarding CD - 09/06/04 04:37 PM
Quote


But what's to stop me playing the game, and completing it, and then borrowing it to a friend? Again, this is no excuse...


Well nothing at all, and naturally I reckon we all do that. But it could never have the impact of install, give to someone, install, give to someone else etc.

I understand your frustration though...it's a pain switching cds about, especially for games that require you to do it while playing, like Baldurs Gate!

At the end of the day it's all based around the developers trying to keep their intellectual property from unauthorized users.

They have the right to try. If I was a games delevoper trying to make money I'd try to protect my products as much as I can.

The consequences of asking for the CD to play the game is an annoyance I imagine to players, but to the developers seeing your game available for download on the net because you didn't inculde any protection must be far worse. Ok this still happens of course, but wouldn't it be much worse if the CD didn't need to authorized at all.
Posted By: xAcesx Re: Question regarding CD - 09/06/04 05:03 PM
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Well nothing at all, and naturally I reckon we all do that. But it could never have the impact of install, give to someone, install, give to someone else etc.

I understand your frustration though...it's a pain switching cds about, especially for games that require you to do it while playing, like Baldurs Gate!

At the end of the day it's all based around the developers trying to keep their intellectual property from unauthorized users.

They have the right to try. If I was a games delevoper trying to make money I'd try to protect my products as much as I can.

The consequences of asking for the CD to play the game is an annoyance I imagine to players, but to the developers seeing your game available for download on the net because you didn't inculde any protection must be far worse. Ok this still happens of course, but wouldn't it be much worse if the CD didn't need to authorized at all.


I have nothing against the developers protecting their stuff. All I'm asking is don't inconvenience me in the process. I would still point out that copy protections are illegal.

My Diablo II "Play" disc went down. Blizzard wanted £10 to replace it!!! Perhaps if they'd left the disc copyable, I could have backed it up myself. Naturally, I used a "No-CD" crack, but I still had to copy my mates Play disc. Which was a pain.

Consumers have the right to back up their software, regardless of how the developers feel about it. They are breaking the law, and getting a "pat on the back" from most people, how ironic.
Posted By: DEATHATTHEDOOR Re: Question regarding CD - 09/06/04 05:16 PM
Quote
My Diablo II "Play" disc went down. Blizzard wanted £10 to replace it!!! Perhaps if they'd left the disc copyable, I could have backed it up myself. Naturally, I used a "No-CD" crack, but I still had to copy my mates Play disc. Which was a pain.


CloneCD successfully bypasses Diablo 2 and LoD protection, even the older versions of the program.

And please, don't whine here about consumer rights and "evil developers". You have problems? Please go to Digital Jesters' or Starforce's website.
Posted By: Plowking Re: Question regarding CD - 09/06/04 05:21 PM
But I can still see why they do it. Nor can I see anyway around needing the CD. Maybe if it only asked for the CD a random time perhaps! That would at least cut down on swapping pains.


I think it's the case for some games even without actual copy protection of any kind you seem to need the CD to access something. I'm playing GTA3 at the mo and the CD is needed to run the radio stations. I do wish I could just put it all on the drive and not need the CD at all. You also need the CD when launching the game...of course. I took the CD out after I launched it and it crashed when I got in a car.

Regarding backup it mentioned in the manual of one game I had Operation flashpoint that you should actually back it up. I did and the backup wouldn't bloody work!! They had protected the game even though they wanted you to back it up!! Grrrr... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/memad.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: xAcesx Re: Question regarding CD - 09/06/04 06:41 PM
Quote
CloneCD successfully bypasses Diablo 2 and LoD protection, even the older versions of the program.

And please, don't whine here about consumer rights and "evil developers". You have problems? Please go to Digital Jesters' or Starforce's website.


first of all, I don't need help copying. Second, paying for Clone to copy Diablo II isn't realistic. Is there any reason inparticular why i can't bring up consumer rights? Or for that matter, "Whine" about publishers & developers? Seeing as it's all related to the original thread I don't see a problem.

The guy hates leaving the CD in, as do many. I wouldn't go as far as to say they're evil for this; I'd just say they have the same disregard for the law, as the pirates do. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Kejero Re: Question regarding CD - 09/06/04 08:03 PM
Quote
My Diablo II "Play" disc went down. Blizzard wanted £10 to replace it!!! Perhaps if they'd left the disc copyable, I could have backed it up myself.


Hey what's this with taking "making back-up copies" for granted? You buy a car, it'll wear off. Same with clothes or family games or basket balls or anything else you buy and you use. No back-ups there. What makes a video game so different?
Posted By: xAcesx Re: Question regarding CD - 09/06/04 08:24 PM
Quote
Hey what's this with taking "making back-up copies" for granted? You buy a car, it'll wear off. Same with clothes or family games or basket balls or anything else you buy and you use. No back-ups there. What makes a video game so different?


The law doesn't say you can make a backup copy of your car. However, it does about your software, which isn't the point either. This is about people wanting to play their games without a CD/DVD in their drives. A point which is lost on the publishers. It's just a shame it's the hackers who end up giving you this facility.
Posted By: DEATHATTHEDOOR Re: Question regarding CD - 09/06/04 09:10 PM
Quote
first of all, I don't need help copying. Second, paying for Clone to copy Diablo II isn't realistic.

You don't have to play for Clone CD since you get a 30 day trial.

The law doesn't WANT you to backup your CDs. The law ALLOWS you to backup your CDs. If you can't, it's your problem (I am not trying to insult you, I am trying to show it from an avocates' point of view).

PM me if you want a tip.
Posted By: GoldyLocks Re: Question regarding CD - 10/06/04 01:03 AM
Quote
. I would still point out that copy protections are illegal.


xAcesx
Could you please prove to me that copy protection of one work is illegal?
Posted By: honourcobain Re: Question regarding CD - 10/06/04 11:17 AM
1- You are LEGALLY ALLOWED to make a personal backup of an Original Game CD as long as you are the owner of the Original Game CD.

2- You are NOT ALLOWED to sell, rent or give away any backups of copyrighted Games CD's, as this is not allowed by Copyright Laws

3- You MUST DESTROY any backups when you don't legally own the Original Game CD anymore (e.g. selling or giving it away)

To make a backup of an Original Game CD there are Websites who support you with some Protection-Cracked files which you can use...BUT THESE SITES ARE THE SOURCE OF PIRATE USERS AS WELL..

dont miss the point pals
Posted By: kiya Re: Question regarding CD - 10/06/04 11:30 AM
Interesting is this: EU law has changed a few months ago, so (German - only checked these myself) sites had to remove burn/back up programs/links. Copyright is changing - I think a reaction towards piracy, too late in many cases - but a clear signal towards Kazaa&Co. Have not checked if it is ratified right now, my knowledge is from 8th Aug. 2003. what I did not understand is => if it is already valid throughout EU and only has to be ratified in Germany or has done already (this materia is terribly difficult for me to understand):
Kiya

As this was discussed in the German Forum a few months ago, I'm taking out a few infos by Hellfighter, Wolfman, Barnabus etc. =>

Quote
Verboten ist Software zu kopieren
--||-- ist Kopierschutz zu umgehen
--||-- ist das Benutzen sämtlicher Kopiertools
( Denn §95a Abs.§ sieht vor,
dass auch "herstellung und Verkauf von vorrichtungen, die der umgehung von technischen Schutzmechanismen dienen"verboten sind. Also Tools wie

Translation =>
It is prohibited to copy software
if copy protection can be avoided via tool
usage of all copy tools
As §95a says:
production or sale of tools, helping to avoid technical protection - so, tools as...

Links considered illegal (German sites reacted:)
CloneCD, Alcohol, ClonyXXL, DVDx, Movieejack, Gamejack

You are still allowed to make private backups - but when it comes to using certain tools ...

Kiya

The German link to this discussion, please click, if you understand this language

Please, don't misunderstand this post, I'm just informing. I guess US laws are different. I don't know if this law will help against piracy, but maybe a bit against uncontrolled copies.
Posted By: xAcesx Re: Question regarding CD - 10/06/04 11:56 AM
It's not my job to prove it goldy; just to inform you. However, I will explain why the law was made:

Back in the days of tapes, and 5¼ discs it was easy for data to become damaged, and the law said you had the right to back up your software. Not just because of possible damage, but because software houses can become bankrupt, and get assets liquidated, leaving you with nowhere to return damaged discs. This was aimed at businesses more than the general public.

Business software isn't disc proected, as businesses won't stand for it. They always make archive copies of their software, for this very reason. Take the Windows OS's for example. Microsoft don't mind you copying windows, what they're interetsed in, is you buying licences for each machine you install a copy.

Anyway, this is as much as I'm going to say on the subject. This is <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" /> now, and no one appears to be on my side <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/puppyeyes.gif" alt="" />. After all, it's the consumer (you) I'm trying to represent here.
Posted By: xAcesx Re: Question regarding CD - 10/06/04 12:07 PM
Quote
To make a backup of an Original Game CD there are Websites who support you with some Protection-Cracked files which you can use...BUT THESE SITES ARE THE SOURCE OF PIRATE USERS AS WELL..

dont miss the point pals


Don't confuse pirating games and cracking games. One is a multi-million £ industry, and the other isn't.

Right, that's really my last comment <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: kiya Re: Question regarding CD - 10/06/04 12:27 PM
Quote
xAcesx:
After all, it's the consumer (you) I'm trying to represent here.

I consider myself to be a consumer (have both BD games <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> ) - and understand your point of view => you are a legal consumer and don't want restrictions due to having the CD in the drive, for reasons I understand, too (damage, having to re-buy, swap, mobile playing via laptop etc.)

These reasons are valid up to a certain point in my case => concerning damage.

Why? If I buy a certain product, I know it has a limited life span, this is something I accept in all trade products. I don't consider software on a hardware "transporter" unlimited. If my product takes damage within the legal time limit guarantee, I want a refund. I guess, I would think differently, if I had encountered a CD damage due to the CD-drive during my gaming times, but I have yet to make this XP (not looking forward to it though).
Kiya
Posted By: xAcesx Re: Question regarding CD - 10/06/04 01:56 PM
Greetings Kiya

Having written my fair share of commercial software myself, for other companies. We sold licences to use our stuff. The user pays for licence to use our product (Licence Agreement <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />), the disc it is on is of no importance, and has nothing to do with the licence. As the licence doesn't degrade in any way, through the passage of time, the customers where concerned that if they became heavily dependant on our products, and we became bankrupt, they would have no support, and cause immense problems for their business.

So you see, the thing you pay for isn't a disc, it's a licence to use the stuff on the disc. And this is more often than not, a lifetime offer of use. However, if companies only want you to use their products for a year or two, the licence should reflect this.

I see your point, and I uderstand the need to elimate piracy, but this isn't the way. Back in the old days, we had manual proections (3rd page, line 2, word 6) which still enabled user to back up their stuff. We have CD keys too. Disc protection isn't the way, and it's unfair to the legitimate users who have a lifetime licence to use the product they bought.

Will no one stand with me on this?? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/puppyeyes.gif" alt="" />


Posted By: kiya Re: Question regarding CD - 10/06/04 02:10 PM
<sigh> lifetime use? and what about hardware OS changes then making it impossible for me to play a game? I understand the license stuff - but it is still transported on hardware - a CD.

May I take paper? A book? If my cat destroys it or if I take it into my tub or even if I treat it carefully and it starts to fall apart after a few years, because the gum (paperback) has dried up - or even if everything is designed for life time but the paper starts to crumble, printing withers => can I demand it after guarantee limit has perished? Ok, you could say => I'll make a copy of this book (would be illegal, because according to my laws, more than 20% copy is prohibited). But this one will have a limited life span, too.

Am I comparing apples with pears now?

I stand by you - but I can't support what you'd like, as long as this license is tied to a CD, the "transporter" (sorry, know no other word, hope, you understand what I mean). and I'm only talking about games now, ok? As it goes for business programs => we pay a yearly fee for our library system, including updates, patches etc. But a game has only a one-time price.
Posted By: xAcesx Re: Question regarding CD - 10/06/04 02:26 PM
The medium which you purchase your software on is in no way linked to the licence. Forget about discs, tapes hard drives and the rest, they have nothing to do with it.

When you click "I Agree" to a licence, you should take the time to read it. You are purchasing runtime code, and the right to run it. Nothing more, nothing less.

The same laws that govern business, governs the games industry too. What applies to one, apllies to the other regarding laws. Only licences that are renewable are subject subscription, something which has little to do with most games. What you have to remember, is that your not purchasing a disc.

And as for the library, you are subscribing to a service, not purchasing it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

I'm on my own on this, arn't I? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/disagree.gif" alt="" />

Posted By: DEATHATTHEDOOR Re: Question regarding CD - 10/06/04 03:34 PM
Quote
I'm on my own on this, arn't I? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/disagree.gif" alt="" />


I fear so. Not that I am against what you are saying, in the countrary, I would be happy if it was as easy as you say.
But the laws forbid copying (not that I give a dog biscuit anyway [i didn't say that :P]). I would say that the EULA usually applies on CDs themselves, at least as games go. Have you ever read console games licenses? You cannot copy a console game without having a modchip/modchip alternative so whatever they say about backups, it's just to fill up the paper.
Posted By: HandEFood Re: Question regarding CD - 11/06/04 03:06 AM
I agree with xAcesx that We are paying primarily for a software license, and to a much lesser extent, the media it comes on. Part of the software is the copy protection. The only way to remove the copy protection is to illegally modify the software (as stated int he EULA). It's a bit extreme, but if we decide that the copy protection on the software we're using is optional, what's to stop us deciding that the copyright is necessary either, after all it's just another clause in the EULA?

Kiya, regarding your "book falling apart" analogy, that is an excelent point! Just as a side-note, some book companies actually produce poor quality glue so that you have to replace the books and they can continue to make sales. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: janggut Re: Question regarding CD - 11/06/04 05:25 AM
if we can bend things to our advantages, we would. if it soothes our ego or kill our guilt, we would do it.

xAcesx, i do agree with u on a personal level as i would take care & precaution to not abuse the 'crack' that breaks the protection that may damage the media in the long run.

however, with grains of salt, & in general i may have to disagree. knowing how people are & how far thriftiness can go, i'm sure without cd-protection, a copy of a good game will get distributed around the neighbourhood or family clan members via copies in no time. that will kill the company that want to establish themselves & make honest profits. & with games, & kids (pre-teens & teens) who are not yet well-grounded on moral standings on such issues; well we have wild fire on our hands.

i'm sure larians can trust a number of us who are loyal fans to buy orginal. but what about the rest who aren't really ardent fans or just gamers who want to get their fix & if they can get it easily (& illegaly), why not? if u can save $30, why not? so u see, can that attitude go away with the cd protection? i don't think so.

this issue really depends a lot on both sides; manufacturers & consumers. just how ethical are both sides on dealings? can the manufacturers be trusted to provide product/service that are reliable & not just long enough prduct/service cycle so users have to back to get it again & again & again? can the consumers be trusted to not abuse the trust that manufacturers have in them by not blatantly copying (ok, this is about cd's) & stuff like that (meaning i don't know <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> )?
Posted By: HandEFood Re: Question regarding CD - 11/06/04 06:32 AM
You're right janggut.

When we owned the Amiga 1000, we had literally hundreds of games. We owned 5 of them. Why did we copy them? Because we could.

Now that I'm older, I don't pirate any more. Why? It is becoming harder to crack games. Games are a lot larger, hence download issues. A number of hacked games are incomplete, including only the gameplay and not the story elements. And I believe in supporting the wonderful teams who make these masterpieces and escapes.
Posted By: xAcesx Re: Question regarding CD - 12/06/04 01:25 PM
First of all, I have only made a couple of points. One was that disc protection is illegal. This is true! Like it or not, beleive me or not.

Whether the worlds ends tomorrow because of cracks, pirates or joe bloggs, this doesn't change the above statment. We have had a game industry long before disc protections came out. And granted, that it is easier to distribute games via the net now, but there are still alternatives to this kind of illegal protection.

No matter what you all say, I cannot condone companies (for whatever reason) breaking the law. You cannot say it's immoral for someone to STEAL game code, and then look the other way when the software houses break the law. They're both being naughty. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: HandEFood Re: Question regarding CD - 16/06/04 12:03 AM
I just reread this thread and noticed your post about restricting our right to make backups. That is a good point. But this is the problem with electronic technology, that backup can be distributed and who the hell is going to find out. If you make it copyable, then it is copyable for everyone, causing piracy. I can only think of one method that might work, although it's not entirely enticing or plausable yet:

Online serial number authentication. You cannot start the game until you log on and your serial number is authenticated, similar to Neverwinter Nights. Should yor serial number be used more than once simultaniously, alarm bells ring. This idea is based on the design of DNS security. This is looking at a time where all machines are permanently connected to the 'Net.

And even then, how long before people produce fake authentication proxies...
Posted By: xAcesx Re: Question regarding CD - 16/06/04 03:55 PM
Quote
I just reread this thread and noticed your post about restricting our right to make backups. That is a good point. But this is the problem with electronic technology, that backup can be distributed and who the hell is going to find out. If you make it copyable, then it is copyable for everyone, causing piracy. I can only think of one method that might work, although it's not entirely enticing or plausable yet:

Online serial number authentication. You cannot start the game until you log on and your serial number is authenticated, similar to Neverwinter Nights. Should yor serial number be used more than once simultaniously, alarm bells ring. This idea is based on the design of DNS security. This is looking at a time where all machines are permanently connected to the 'Net.

And even then, how long before people produce fake authentication proxies...


It isn't our problem to fix this situation; it's the software houses problem. Millions are spent on the latest protections, and they all get cracked! I like the idea of CD keys (online maybe) providing there's scope for multiplaying without participation on the software houses servers (Direct IP).

I'm not saying they shouldn't protect their software, i'm just saying they shouldn't protect the disc! Look at Microsoft software; all copyable, but look how much money they've made. Piracy hasn't made them bankrupt. This proves there are alternatives to the disc.
Posted By: DEATHATTHEDOOR Re: Question regarding CD - 17/06/04 12:01 AM
Quote
[I'm not saying they shouldn't protect their software, i'm just saying they shouldn't protect the disc! Look at Microsoft software; all copyable, but look how much money they've made. Piracy hasn't made them bankrupt. This proves there are alternatives to the disc.


Not to mention they never had any game problems related to protection.

The idea of CD-Keys is excellent although it only works for games with online play.
Posted By: Inelinc Re: Question regarding CD - 17/06/04 02:30 AM
The cd protection doesnt really bother me, it takes 20 sec longer to start the game so what?

It doesnt have cd load times in game or something so you shouldnt be to bothered :P

//Inel.
Posted By: Adraeus Re: Question regarding CD - 17/06/04 11:57 PM
There's no reason to require a game disc to be in the drive. The reason given for disc-in-drive requirement, "copyright protection", is poor because that type of protection via the current means is an illusion. What prevents users from duplicating the game disc and using it in the drive? Not much. In this day and age when most computers are equipped with CD/DVD-writers, there's little to prevent users from disc duplication.

Established game developers like Blizzard Entertainment and Westwood may use a protective disc-requirement scheme, but they don't spend resources like it were important, knowing that the profits received from the number of games sold will exceed the profits lost to software piracy. That allows others to develop no-cd patches, which increases customer satisfaction. (C'mon, Larian! CRM!)

Some developers like Epic (i.e., the developers of UTxxxx) take a more logical approach. They patch out, or just not include, such tried and failed piracy-prevention schemes.

Beyond Divinity lacks a large (piracy) market because its marketing programs are scarce and its distribution too narrow. When knowledge of a game isn't widespread, software piracy will endanger the livelihood of companies like Larian. However, if it were the other way around, software piracy wouldn't hurt as much. Software piracy is inevitable. You can't stop it with weird prevention schemes, CD-Keys, multiple discs, or huge file sizes. There's no use in trying. It's far more cost-effective to "get big" so that all your markets grow.

By the way, the German version of Beyond Divinity is pirated, available, and currently being distributed illegally on the Web via a new P2P technology, and the English version of Beyond Divinity is pirated and distributed with an old chat technology. (Who were those guys in the beginning of this thread arguing whether Beyond Divinity is pirated? They're silly. Any game that gets a good score on gamerankings.com is pirated and distributed.)
Posted By: Euro Re: Question regarding CD - 18/06/04 06:12 PM
Why are you so hung up on not having the cd in the drive?
Posted By: xAcesx Re: Question regarding CD - 18/06/04 06:20 PM
Quote
Why are you so hung up on not having the cd in the drive?


I don't know about he guy above but, I own a lot of games, and have a big hard drive. I can have as many as 15 games installed at once.

Wouldn't it be easier if you could just click "go" and the game runs? Instead of fishing out discs, laying them up, not to mention the wear and tear on your drives.

This way is easier and more convenient.
Posted By: Inelinc Re: Question regarding CD - 18/06/04 06:27 PM
I admit, when a game could be run with a crack "If I either own the original or not" I mostly download it cause I don't really feel like switching cd's 10 times a day. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Atm I only play a Online mmporg and just BD once in a while "Beated it loads already" so the cd is in the drive and im not bothered by it.

//Inel.
Posted By: Euro Re: Question regarding CD - 18/06/04 06:36 PM
Wrong
I'll tell you why.
Your pissed off you have to actually pay for this game because of starforce instead of downloading it through "P2P technology" uh yeah.. What was the second phrase? "chat technology"? Gimme a break. Don't troll the forums just because your used to downloading free [nocando] through xdcc/filesharing apps /fxp /affils(i doubt it.)/topsites (HA)/. I could understand if you were angry because this protection screws your ability to play the game, and in some cases I've seen on this forum that holds true for some people. But thats not why your here. It's not a question of why do I have to use a cd-rom drive, it's question of why the hell isn't this piece of software free. If it was you wouldn't be posting in this thread, and you sure as hell wouldn't be asking people how much they paid for BD in a second thread. You can either get a job and pay for something people worked hard to market and create, or wait until the protection is defeated and have your free game. But the one thing you have to do is STFU.

Directed at Adraeus
<3
Posted By: LewsTherinKinslayer13 Re: Question regarding CD - 18/06/04 07:04 PM
Why do people pirate? It just makes it so they can't even make anymore games!

And I will suppourt any copy protection that lets me play the game and makes it hard to pirate. and this system they use right now lets me play the game. AND IS IT TO HARD TO SWITCH A FRIGGEN DISC???? NO!

Posted By: Inelinc Re: Question regarding CD - 18/06/04 08:26 PM
Pirating wont really inflicts the makers, but the stores who bought the games of them and sell~.

Ofcourse sores could say we stop taking games by that producent and then it infclicts <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> but who knows that game gets sold alot? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

//Inel.
Posted By: LewsTherinKinslayer13 Re: Question regarding CD - 18/06/04 09:08 PM
The maker doesn't get the money they need for it.
Posted By: DEATHATTHEDOOR Re: Question regarding CD - 18/06/04 10:25 PM
Quote
Why do people pirate? It just makes it so they can't even make anymore games!

And I will suppourt any copy protection that lets me play the game and makes it hard to pirate. and this system they use right now lets me play the game. AND IS IT TO HARD TO SWITCH A FRIGGEN DISC???? NO!


Pirates? There are no pirates here! No-no! We are mushrooms... yeah... I think...

You will support any copy protections? Well, the companies do not seem to require your support nor the pirates need your lack of <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />.

And yes, it *IS* annoying to switch CDs when you play Baldur's Gate 2 + Throne of Bhaal and traveling betwen Athkatla and Umar Hills to sell loot.
Posted By: LewsTherinKinslayer13 Re: Question regarding CD - 18/06/04 10:31 PM
okay. BG 2, yeah. um. even I can relate to that. But thats why I installed Maximum after so much trouble! ya i know. im just saying I will buy a game even if it has some weird copy protection if it will help. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />


and stop Pirating things DATD!
Posted By: DEATHATTHEDOOR Re: Question regarding CD - 18/06/04 10:38 PM
Quote
and stop Pirating things DATD!


Sorry, when you insulted pirates I felt hurt, especially when I was about to install Pirates of the Caribbean (new mods fix many of the bugs) so I had to reply.
Posted By: LewsTherinKinslayer13 Re: Question regarding CD - 18/06/04 10:42 PM
yih [nocando]
Posted By: Jurak Re: Question regarding CD - 18/06/04 10:48 PM
my CD never complains when i use it.

how are your organizational skills, coming along? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Adraeus Re: Question regarding CD - 18/06/04 11:37 PM
...and somehow he knows all this... interesting...

Quote
Wrong
I'll tell you why.
Your pissed off you have to actually pay for this game because of starforce instead of downloading it through "P2P technology" uh yeah.. What was the second phrase? "chat technology"? Gimme a break. Don't troll the forums just because your used to downloading free [nocando] through xdcc/filesharing apps /fxp /affils(i doubt it.)/topsites (HA)/. I could understand if you were angry because this protection screws your ability to play the game, and in some cases I've seen on this forum that holds true for some people. But thats not why your here. It's not a question of why do I have to use a cd-rom drive, it's question of why the hell isn't this piece of software free. If it was you wouldn't be posting in this thread, and you sure as hell wouldn't be asking people how much they paid for BD in a second thread. You can either get a job and pay for something people worked hard to market and create, or wait until the protection is defeated and have your free game. But the one thing you have to do is STFU.

Directed at Adraeus
<3
Posted By: xAcesx Re: Question regarding CD - 19/06/04 01:39 AM
You can always rely on piracy to cause chaos in a forum <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" /> Well... At least it keeps everyone posting <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: DEATHATTHEDOOR Re: Question regarding CD - 19/06/04 02:49 AM
Quote
...and somehow he knows all this... interesting...

Quote
Wrong
I'll tell you why.
Your pissed off you have to actually pay for this game because of starforce instead of downloading it through "P2P technology" uh yeah.. What was the second phrase? "chat technology"? Gimme a break. Don't troll the forums just because your used to downloading free [nocando] through xdcc/filesharing apps /fxp /affils(i doubt it.)/topsites (HA)/. I could understand if you were angry because this protection screws your ability to play the game, and in some cases I've seen on this forum that holds true for some people. But thats not why your here. It's not a question of why do I have to use a cd-rom drive, it's question of why the hell isn't this piece of software free. If it was you wouldn't be posting in this thread, and you sure as hell wouldn't be asking people how much they paid for BD in a second thread. You can either get a job and pay for something people worked hard to market and create, or wait until the protection is defeated and have your free game. But the one thing you have to do is STFU.

Directed at Adraeus
<3


Yet he has guts to say directly what I was trying to hint...
The game didn't work? Too bad. You returned it? Why do you complain?
Posted By: chasrome Re: Question regarding CD - 20/06/04 08:38 PM
This is an interesting thread. One man's reaction:

1. Human nature is fixed. Some way needs to be found to protect the creators of valuable property from casual piracy. Until we kill off all the bad guys I guess we are stuck with CDs in the drives, eh? I believe some utopian societies were set up last century to fix this but they did not turn out so good (they killed the wrong people). I also hate to have to lock and unlock my home and to set and clear the alarm system not to mention the monthly alarm charges. It's all part of the same deal, isn't it?

2. I don't like keeping CDs in the drives either because the game I want to play right now is always the one that is not in the drive.

3. I have purchased by now three copies of D2 because of mechanical damage to the discs (mostly caused by me slamming the drawer too fast) but D2 now only costs (at most)$20 so not really a big deal.

4. I just read how DVDs can get "rot" just like Laser Discs did. Rot on optical media looks like flashing white speckles in video. For music, I believe the correction routines paper over most of the flaws. For programs there must be some kind of error correcting routine. The only unplayable CDs I have seen are visibly damaged -- you can see the scratch. Rot, on the other hand is invisible and is caused by oxygen trapped in the plastic during manufacturing or seeping through porous plastic eating at the aluminum. Rot just gets worse over time whether or not the disk is played -- nothing can be done except to buy a new disc and too bad if it is an out of print Laser. There are some (expensive) music CDs that use gold foil instead of aluminum that are immune to rot because unlike cheap aluminum, gold will never tarnish.

5. I had a lot of trouble installing BD on my system until I "removed" the CD drives (using Windows Device Manager) and letting Windows re-install the drivers automatically on restart. CD drivers do not normally come with the drives -- they usually come with and are installed by Windows. Now that I have the game installed, the disk check only takes a few seconds the same as, for example, D2 -- on my four year old P3 system. But the BD (Hip) user interface is a little misleading in that it shows a five inch bar but only a quarter of the bar is covered when the check completes. I find D2s spinning disk icon easier to understand and wait for.









Posted By: DEATHATTHEDOOR Re: Question regarding CD - 20/06/04 08:49 PM
It was an interesting read, mate. I agree with some things you said and disagree with others but it was a good read. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I seriously didn't know about rot.
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