I don't know which one to get.

Both are coming out around the same time, and theya re both RPGs.

However, ToEE is more of a "true" pen and paper RPG, and it even has turn-based combat!

However, Riftrunner is made by the people who made Divine Divinity, and I really liked DD.

So I'm torn. I just wish "Torn" had actually come out.

Buy <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/riftrunner.gif" alt="" /> first and then see if you still have enough money to buy the other one. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/riftrunner.gif" alt="" /> all the way!!! (What other answer would you expect from this forum?) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

However, none of the games are out and none of them have demos yet.
What the hell do you expect on RR forum? People tell you to buy the other one?
50 seconds to leave the city or I'll shoot [quote from some good western movie] :P.

Be nice Death.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" />

Actually I am very much pissed off and angry at myself and everyone else. For a second time this summer I got a flu. My mood is worse than ever and I got many minor and annoying things bugging my poor brain all the time.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/puppyeyes.gif" alt="" /> Sorry Death - get better. Maybe it is SARS? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" />

Like looking in a mirror.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" />

Death facing death.

*sings* "I look arround and what do I see? Some forum member pointing at me..."
Sorry, insider joke, now where is kiya?

The offtopic deamons are pulling it to Offtopic hell!!!

Simply wait for a playable demo version of both games, then you can make your own opinion and buy the game you prefer. If you like both, then buy both <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

Nemisis_Dragon <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/puppyeyes.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" />

I love your shield. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/kissyou.gif" alt="" />
Give it to me now or die. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" />





Just kidding.
It is really nice, where did you loot it from? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" />

Cool that you like it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />
I will launch on Monday my new Ultima webpage and then you'll see where I got it from <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" />

That would be great. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
The key of life is a symbol of my ancestors, and I could not help being identified with it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" />
The shield is also nicely rendered. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" />

Looking forward to see your site.

Yes, me too. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

Hehe <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

Me too, unless I die tomorrow at 3:08 am.

Is that your destined appointment with death?
Oh no! You are getting married, right? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />
Yet 3:08 am is a bit early for a ceremony, or is that intentional to reduce the number of guests you have to serve?


<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/alien.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/alien.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/alien.gif" alt="" />

You really seems happy about it. I decided I will drag you with me <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" />

Oh now I get your nickname. You were registering and your girlfriend was at the door <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" />

no,no just kidding have a happy and fruitful marriage. I always criy at weddings <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cry.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cry.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cry.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cry.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cry.gif" alt="" />

Just say some pics of Temple and in my opinion, the game doesn't impress me at all. Though maybe u like that look, I prefer RR because u have more control on what the character is doing.

Just my opinion.

later phoenen

Great, but will you drop me home after you drag me with you? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />
Point at me.
Click me.
Bring your mouse and I shall bring my cat. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />
If you click me right I shall order the menu, but if you left me then I know that I am selected. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

--------------------
[color:"black"]
I always laughed at death when it came through the door.
My welcome seems to be a repellent as it seeked my fear.
Its anger caused me to laugh yet more and more.
and as it dissipated it whispered in my left ear.
I’ll be back.
[/color]

ROFL <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

back on topic: buy both if you have the money

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/kissyou.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/kissyou.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/kissyou.gif" alt="" />
________
........____........

I've played games that don't have the greatest graphics or illustrations and still were good games. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

D&D has been around a long time. The Temple of Elemental Evil will be interesting to see because it is derived from one of their old campaigns. They will use the 3.5 D&D ruleset, based on the Arcanum game engine. Now, the thing is, I haven't seen the demo. So, I really can't comment on the gameplay or anything.

I do look forward to this game as much as I look forward to Riftrunner and DD2. It's really difficult to make any decision on which game to buy first until the demos are released.

Ok, here is the deal.
The game that is released first should be around before the other is released, right?
That is how to decide to buy it first. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />
If both were released on the same day, then buy <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/riftrunner.gif" alt="" /> and Temple; or buy <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/riftrunner.gif" alt="" /> only if you do not have enough money or time for both. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

The only reason for which you may buy Temple rather than <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/riftrunner.gif" alt="" /> would be that <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/riftrunner.gif" alt="" /> turns out to be disastrous while Temple is fabulous, but this is a very iffy reason which is too far from probable.

So as I said up here, go ahead and buy the available one or both when the time comes.
It is more probable that Temple would come out first earlier by a month or two, and I think that you would have no choice then. So buy both, each as it comes out. Then we could share tips and hints. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

Yes, DAD, I like you too... but not THAT much!
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

I was looking over TOEE at Gamespy when the lights went off. I would like to see how they are going to apply the new rules. From what I have read of the game, it seems the developers have played <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> there are many similarities. Such as character generation, and mixing attributes. From the way things read <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/riftrunner.gif" alt="" /> IMHO will be a much better game because it is made with us in mind. I will probebly pick up a copy of TOEE if the further reviews etc. sound good. It is too early to tell for me. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/riftrunner.gif" alt="" /> is going to be a must buy.( I will have it!)

*cough*
The founders of Troika Games were making Fallout 1 when <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> wasn't even in Larian's mind (I don't know when Larian was founded). They also made Fallout 2 and Arcanum, it is NOT a new company. Besides, not to offend anyone, <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> was not very original with the character generation. As for mixing attributes, there's a thing in D&D called "multiclassing".
Arcanum and Fallout 2 are simply the 2 best games ever made.

*cough* Tim and company LEFT BIS after the framework of Fallout 2 was in design. BIS however changed Tim's origional ideas of Fallout 2 and developed the game we know today. Just so you know. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

On topic... I am actully looking more forward to RR than TOEE. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" />

*cough* *cough* *cough* *cough* i *cough* think *cough* *cough* *waves his hands* *cough* nevermind *cough* cough*

Larian Studios started 1995 with "unless", later renamed into LMK, the never published Predecessor of <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" />.

Yeah, that's your opinion <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

Unless what exactly Marian?
And what does LMK stand for?
Why LMK was never published?
Or did LMK just evolve into Divivnity?

A lot of old questions...
It all started with "Unless, the Treachery of Death", which got renamed to




at 1997 when Larian Studios found a german Publisher for it, a ttic Entertainment Software, where for instance i was working. Its a long dirty story but at the end Larian broke with a ttic because no one got paid for a very long time. I'll make it brief. Three a ttic developers, who where carried to belgium to finish LMK quit and joined Larian because we anyway had no money left to go back to germany due to not being for more than a half year. a ttic had the rights for LMK so they decided to rather take it down with them then selling the rights. We made a fresh start with all the experience from LMK = <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" />.

In fact, theoretically you could say we have done much of the stuff that made <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> great much earlier then most of the competion (even Diablo 2!), but we came out way later so there is no point talking about because we can't prove it. And I for sure will not give out any old LMK-Demos which could prove it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" /> And those couldn't just by any chance find their way to the internet in some mysterious way?

Oh it's not that I don't believe you guys! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/kissyou.gif" alt="" />
Must be a nasty feeling when you think back of it... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ouch.gif" alt="" />

I've seen screenshots of it lately - and I had it on my wish list from the very start until to the sad end. But I can definitely say Div is not LMK, the style is very different.
Kiya

I remember reading previews of LMK in PC Gameplay (a Belgian/Dutch) games magazine. I also remember viewing a preview movie to LMK on one of their cd's. Back then, I looked forward to it very much, but after that it suddenly got very silent. Until <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> popped up that is. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Too bad LMK was never released, but we got <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> instead. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

You certainly do not need to prove anything Marian, I happen to be a logistics wizard .... and .... I believe you.
What you say makes sense and in fact, it is the only explanation why <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> is so great. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" />

Marian, that is indeed a very sad story. Your subtle truth has just proven many gamers wrong. Who has copied who? Hah! Today you have the respect and great admiration from many loyal fans. I am in awe !!!! There is no competition here!

Buy both games, it is aleays a good idea to have an extra game around.

Marian, thanks for the info and for deciding to go with Larian Studios. You people have done great work with <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> and I have no dout that things are only going to improve as you keep putting new games out.

Yeah, thats what we also hope all the time. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

Marian, there is no need to split Attic in this Forum. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

Keep that dragon breath away from Marian or you would wake up surrounded by rats and mummified in Linen (Muppfied in Lynnen). <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />
We also have a dragon fire brigade, and green skin virus that can turn you pink. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />
So be very afraid, you could die in a FLASH. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" />

Uh, no need to split it? Then we have to change that. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

I was *wondering* what LMK was whenever I saw it on Marian's site. Now that answers my question.

It's a shame that it never saw the light though...

If you want to get more information about LMK, check the Mirror of the old LMK-World out.

This means that Riftrunner is the team’s goodbye to those years of experience, right?
The doll, the hero and the death knight but with a great twist. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif" alt="" />

Let the years of Ferraries and bentlies come <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" />


BTW: I really like the The Elf Lady on the LMK site

Is <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/riftrunner.gif" alt="" /> going to have the same AI as LED wars, I heard that AI was a pain in the "nocando"

Well, <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/riftrunner.gif" alt="" /> is no realtime strategy game. And the AI was actually quite good in <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> but we had to take it back partially because it caused some serious trouble with the story scripts.

Get whichever comes out first, oh and dont forget KOTOR, then get the other ones when you are finished.

3 almost certainly great CRPGs in a couple of months ... that is a bit too much competition I wish Riftrunner was available now to compete with Lionheart, it would run it into the ground.

judging from the avatar shots featured in 'peek of the week' in rpgvault, it already has blown lionheart out of its skin.

That was very nice of you really, but please play Lionheart’s demo again and reconsider taking screen shots, or should I do that and post it for comparison?

hey DAD, i've seen your screenies on RRR's latest from POTW2. & frankly it IS better than that of lionheart. lionheart's avatar is only appreciated when u're on character selection bit & that's just one-time affair. in-game is a different story. the character's so small(lionheart's res is locked to 800 X 600 max) that u can only imagine he/she has eyes/ears/nose/chin. no way u can tell if the character hasn't shaved for 3 days.

that makes it a hell lot worse than RRR's avatar. for your perusal, here's a link where i made a screenie of an in-game avatar in lionheart demo. my res is 800 X 600.

Again I would say that pictures speak for themselves.
In what way exactly does one suck more than the other? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />


<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/riftrunner.gif" alt="" /> 1024x768


Lionheart 800x600

now i think u've corrected me in some ways, though i fail 2 see how.

RRR's screenie in 1024 X 768 as opposed to lionheart's 800 X 600, how does one begin 2 compare when the res is totally different?

had RRR's screenie in 800 X 600, should the avatar be larger? hmm... it should if it's pixel-based, isn't it DAD? but it's not, right?

since it's true 3D, so it's polygon-based which means size do not matter even when it's 640 X 480. it remains the same in size, well at least on screen.

if that is the case, what's the point of resolution difference in RRR? had it been P3D, it would've been simple: higher res means more can be seen on the screen. with mix of P3D background with T3D avatar, it's trickier. this means T3D has 2 comply to the norms of P3D(or sprites, or 2D) which is to have the avatar smaller when approaching higher res.

unless u can provide more verbose explanation on this, i can't see your pic-says-it-all explanation & that RRR's avatar in 800 X 600 should be larger with details standing out & therefore better than minute lionheart avatar.

thanks for the effort.

p/s: don't u feel it just suck when your avatar 'limps' & stand weirdly in lionheart?

I really would say, that Lionheart sucks more. Why? Because I saw these animations in motions when I played the demo. The animations are a joke.

Graphic's cant save the kind of gameplay Lionheart has, you can zone out graphics quality pretty fast unless it is truely horrible or it affects gameplay (Lionheart's resolution issue for instance, and the avatars might look good but the animation was horrible). The low polygonal look of NWN avatars didnt bother me that much (that the gameplay was shallow did, but I still finished the game). The quality of avatars for RR/TOEE seems as good or better, and that is good enough for me.

Maybe it would have looked better if RR could have used some type of IBR with on the fly creation of sprites, but it would have been far from trivial (work which they could probably scrap after RR too, full 3D games like KOTOR are the future wether we like it or not). They needed a game out fast, they already had a pipeline setup for skeletal animated 3D characters ... and translating that to a 3D engine was easy. End of story, live with it or move on.

The only reason we are still getting 2D isometric games is because they are relatively cheap to make, it is one big compromise.

Which is not really an exploit, with the score of 6.5/10 Lionheart got.


But Lionheart ONLY has 800x600 <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />
"" Another disappointment is that players cannot alter the graphic mode they're playing in - for some interesting and extremely annoying reason, the game is locked in 800*600 resolution. ""
-- Actiontrip


No. Price is not a reason since it is more difficult to make a good 2d animations in a game than to make 3d. After all, 2d is most of the time (and I really mean "MOST" of the time) exported 3d animations.
With companies like Blizzard making 2D games like Diablo 2, you cannot say that it's because the lack of money.

Not everything is animated.

I think Diablo2 was one of the last of its kind too, Baldur's Gate DA2 and Sudeki are where hack and slash is going IMO.

I'm a bit confused - I thought RR wasn't due out until next year and ToEE is out in a couple of months?

RR should be out before christmas. DD2, on the other hand... *mysterious smiley*

Welcome to the forum. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

Originally the release date for Riftrunner was just announced as Q4, and everyone was hoping it would be towards the beginning or middle of that time frame. It was only recently narrowed down to late in the year, or possibly early next year.

So it means no RR during holidays? Oh well, at least it lowers the chances of RR being buggy.

Now, didn't Lar say they worked out all those naughty bugs?

Yeah but Peter Moleneux claimed B&W was bugless when the game was out.
It doesn't mean anyting.
RABBIT ATTACK!!!!

... & B&W still feels bugless until a patch came out & told me that the game has bugs. still scratching head here.

Hmm. I had many bugs, my creatured refused to learn, the leaches didn't work, the spells were buggy, the advisors didn't always speak...

hey deathatthedoor!! your presence is rarer nowadays. don't u go missing for too long now, bud.

funny about your game of B&W. weird is the correct word. my creature has no problem learning. 8 one time, he decided that people are food & ate them. i was pissed so i punished the dude like a good father should & he learnt his lesson. i was surprised when he copied my actions such as casting rain spells on the fields, petting & healing villagers, as well as helping them 2 catch fish. i didn't teach him these but he learnt through observation. which is why B&W is the ONLY game which the AI is amazing. well at least for me.

I know someone who played B&W as an evil god (easier to get converts through fear), but was only good around his creature. He would toss a few fireballs (or whatever) into town to put the 'fear of god' into them, then his creature would come by and heal, etc. The only time he praised his creature was after it won a battle, and he beat it the first time it lost. It didn't lose again.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/badsmile2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" />

I hope the AI in Riftrunner is a little more complex. I rarely had to adjust strategy in Divinity, playing a melee warrior.

i have the same hopes, raze, not only for melee characters, but also for ranged as well as spell casting characters. more tactical battles.

Hey Janggut! Don't worry, I won't go away. It's just school started now and I have several projects which I want to achieve. But I am arround.

It's one of the bugs: the creature is obsessed with eating people: I bet the programmer for B&W had much evil in him which went on to the critters <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

Raze, yeah I remember some guy who did that. It's amazing because the creature has a 'mind' of it's own so he can be good when the owner is evil.

somehow i don't think it's a bug. i remembered reading an article/interview where bad owner/good creature is a strategy of some kind 2 convert villagers. u cast fear on them & make your creature some kind of a saviour so they'll definitely come 2 him for help & when he 'delivers', they're as good as believers.