Larian Studios

Been playing Sacred a bit.

Posted By: fable

Been playing Sacred a bit. - 12/05/04 12:36 PM

I've been waiting on restarting <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" /> until the next patch comes out and fixes the inventory, weight, etc. Sacred's been on my drive for a while, so I gave it a whirl.

Really, there's no comparison--and all references to the two being similar are so far off the mark as to lead me to wonder who has played both. Sacred's got beautiful graphics, but they're completely non-interactive. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" /> is by contrast the most interactive CRPG in years, with lots of things in the world that you can use, take, touch, move, douse, etc. Sacred's towns look strikingly unique, but each is identical beneath the surface with only three truly unique inhabitants (blacksmith, combo arts master, merchant). <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" /> has unique people in each area, and its merchants do not offer identical merchandise. Sacred's quests are standard and routine. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" /> has quests that are frequently unique, or part of a unique, overarching narrative. Sacred's NPC dialog is generic. The dialog in <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" /> is highly flavored, and many NPCs are memorable. Sacred doesn't let you see or control the inventory of your party members. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" /> does. Most importantly, Sacred is an action game, like Diablo. It is a twitch title. It runs, not a computer, but on adrenalin. You can't pause it to consider what's needed in your inventory, or which of eight spells you've learned is best to cast, or where to move your party members. In <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" /> you can do all this.

Sure, there are similarities. Both use Diablo's system of embedded magical jewels in weapons, armor, etc. Both have randomly generated items. Both are considerably more interesting than Diablo in the skills and spells they offer. But I think the differences outweigh the similarities. Sacred will be for a bit. But I hope Larian rebalances <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" /> soon, and gets the remaining bugs under control. I'm really looking forward to returning to it.
Posted By: Womble

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 12/05/04 12:49 PM

Good points. Remember that these games are improvements on Diablo and D2 however. I think Blizzard should be recognised for using these ideas first in their games and making the action/RPG a very enjoyable category of games.

At least I think Blizzard were the first to do this. If not then disregard this post entirely. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: fable

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 12/05/04 01:39 PM

I agree with the IGN reviewer, that <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" /> is really a lot like Ultima 7, while the Battlefields are more Diablo-like. But then, Ultima 7 is one of my all-time faves. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

The action/RPG was much older than Diablo. I remember playing one as far back as 1982, though I couldn't tell you the name. An old SSI game from 1986 added random item drops, too. What Diablo had were randomized dungeons, fantastic graphics (for the time), and a lack of competition for a few years so it could claim to be the first. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Womble

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 12/05/04 01:58 PM

I bow to your greater knowledge sir.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Duncan_McDermott

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 12/05/04 03:24 PM

The 80's were a great time for RPG's. The graphics didn't have to be fancy only running on mostly 16K. The story lines were always what pulled me in. SSI before their demise had some great titles. The Ultima series I played for years until time no longer allowed me to do so. Unfortuneately I never got to play Ultima past 6. I would sure like to play them if only someone would upgrade them a bit and allow them to play on todays computers.
I had an Apple 2 back then. You could adjust the drive speed with a program. If I remember right the really good drives had quartz in them and retained the proper speed longer.
Even today I would gladly sacrifce graphics for a game with a great story line. The first Wizardry games had minimal graphics and could be played until the wee hours of the mornings making work more difficult. I couldn't wait to get home to get back into the game again. Having to make a map on grid paper only added to the fun. Those lousy spinners, I never did know which direction I was facing when I stopped. All part of a great game. An era long past like the Golden days of T.V.
Today game makers seem to rely on graphics more than anything. Thinking if it looks pretty we will buy it no matter how bad the game play is. I no longer run out to buy new games by developers I haven't played before until I read some reviews. Money is the only power we have as consumers. I for one have bought enough unfinished games that I didn't like after playing for a few hours.
I really enjoy the Divinity games. The graphics set the atmosphere, the music is haunting, the controls easy to use without thinking about them. This is why I keep buying them and will continue to do so.
Posted By: Abanyir

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 12/05/04 03:48 PM

You can get ultima 7 & 8 to run on XP...

Check out:

http://members.iinet.net.au/~rsd/
Posted By: fable

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 12/05/04 03:58 PM

Quote
You can get ultima 7 & 8 to run on XP...


I know. Exult works. Used it briefly about 4 months ago, but had too much else to do. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Grim

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 12/05/04 04:23 PM

Some great nostalgia. There are moments in some of the older games that will never be surpassed or duplicated IMHO. One such moment was entering the Tomb of Varn (the enormous pyramid) in Might & Magic VI. When the pleasant, but eerie soundtrack began you could feel the adrenaline rush into your bloodstream, and you knew you were hooked on RPG's.

When people talk about RPG's they go back to the days of Wizardry, Might & Magic, Ultima, etc. But there were memorable RPG's before that. Who can forget the Infocom games (Zork series)? or who remembers playing probably the original RPG that began with something like:

"Come with me to Colossal Cave where magic abounds and treasures are found. Bid your fingers follow your commands and I will be your eyes and hands. Yet beware the fiery Dragon, for he knows not whether you are wizard or simple Charlatan! How best to conquer Colossal Cave? With daring and skill...oh clever knave."

Those were text-only games, and Colossal Caves I first played, at the risk of the wrath of my professor, on a DEC-7 computer in college.

<looks at watch>... now where is that patch anyways.
Posted By: Faralas

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 12/05/04 05:41 PM

Quote
Even today I would gladly sacrifce graphics for a game with a great story line. The first Wizardry games had minimal graphics and could be played until the wee hours of the mornings making work more difficult. I couldn't wait to get home to get back into the game again. Having to make a map on grid paper only added to the fun. Those lousy spinners, I never did know which direction I was facing when I stopped. All part of a great game. An era long past like the Golden days of T.V.



Ahhh, Wizardry! Such sweet memories of my induction into a most enjoyable addiction to video/computer games. I remember staying up late into the night to finish exploring one dungeon level (getting slaughtered or teleported numerous times) while drafting a map of that dungeon using only paper and pencil. Those were wonderful days of gaming. The games today are good, it's just that they are very different.

I have the whole Wizardry set that includes every single game to Wizardry 8 (I think that was the last game that was released, although I could be wrong).

Thanks for taking me down memory lane. Such a great diversion from the daily grind. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />


Faralas <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mage.gif" alt="" />

Posted By: fable

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 12/05/04 05:58 PM

Wizardry! Remember Wizardry IV, The Return of Werdna, where you play the bad guy you'd defeated before? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> And yes, the Infocom games were great. I still have one or two hanging about in their original boxes, though most are now in latterday incarnations.

Colossal Cave was one of the first games I ever played on a computer. Along with Hammurabi (Think again, Hammurabi!).

But back to Sacred... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

It's gotten 12 bug fixes--6 big, 6 minor--and it's still buggy, with messed up random quests and a sometimes-update map. I was also annoyed to discover that my supposedly perma-tag added to the map vanished when I left it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Duncan_McDermott

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 12/05/04 07:01 PM

I tired the url but it came up that it couldn't be found. Is it only up at certain hours?
Posted By: Duncan_McDermott

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 12/05/04 07:04 PM

Too bad 3DO went out of business. The latter M&M games just never kept up to the competition. I never thought of the Infocom games as RPG's but as adventure games. I did play and like them. I think a group out of MIT made them. They sure kept me up at nights trying to figure them out. That ole nasty Grue was always trying to get me.
Posted By: fable

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 12/05/04 07:19 PM

3DO killed Might and Magic, but it really has to be laid at the door of Jon van Caneghem. Like Richard Gariott over at Origin Systems, van Caneghem wanted extra capital to develop ever larger, more complex games. Turning to 3DO was a lot like turning to EA, in that respect: you got the money, along with the need to produce hits and a whole raft of VPs who made decisions for you. I've been given to understand that 3DO's CEO forced M&M VIII out the door early, and gave M&M IX to a team of his own choosing that had never been involved with New World Computing before. Be that as it may, M&M IX was pretty bad--good only in its combat AI, really. The rest wasn't a patch on the older titles, particularly M&M III, IV/V, and VII.
Posted By: Abanyir

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 12/05/04 07:38 PM

I have heard some rumours that based on the unexpected success of Wizardry 8 that Sir-Tech Canada may begin work on Wizardry 9...

Nothing official yet, but sounded kind of promising!

Still got my original Wizardry I, II and III on 5 1/4 inch floppies <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Though I bought the archive CD too...
Posted By: Grim

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 12/05/04 08:37 PM

I don't want to get started on 3DO or EA, it seems like their idea of a quest is figuring out how to destroy companies like New World Computing and Origin. Just my opinion, but the history is there.

Since UbiSoft bought the rights to Might & Magic and Heroes of Might & Magic there is always hope that they will resurface again.

I certainly hope SirTech is able to continue the Wizardry series, we can only hope <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: fable

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 12/05/04 11:49 PM

Sir-Tech has been very positive on Wizardry 9 over the last year, and it wouldn't surprise me if they were already working on it--remember, they're now a very small company, and any project is going to take quite a while. Thus far, there have been no official announcements.

As for Might and Magic, the purchsae of the brand's rights by UbiSoft is not exactly the best of news. I'd much rather hear that van Caneghem was once again at the helm, though his team clearly needed help with ideas towards the end. UbiSoft will simply farm out the brand; and whether they select a reasonable developer or not will depend upon some in-house VP and a budgeting office. Just the very people you want to make game decisions, right? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Faralas

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 13/05/04 12:14 AM

Quote
Some great nostalgia. There are moments in some of the older games that will never be surpassed or duplicated IMHO. One such moment was entering the Tomb of Varn (the enormous pyramid) in Might & Magic VI. When the pleasant, but eerie soundtrack began you could feel the adrenaline rush into your bloodstream, and you knew you were hooked on RPG's.

When people talk about RPG's they go back to the days of Wizardry, Might & Magic, Ultima, etc. But there were memorable RPG's before that. Who can forget the Infocom games (Zork series)? or who remembers playing probably the original RPG that began with something like:

"Come with me to Colossal Cave where magic abounds and treasures are found. Bid your fingers follow your commands and I will be your eyes and hands. Yet beware the fiery Dragon, for he knows not whether you are wizard or simple Charlatan! How best to conquer Colossal Cave? With daring and skill...oh clever knave."

Those were text-only games, and Colossal Caves I first played, at the risk of the wrath of my professor, on a DEC-7 computer in college.

<looks at watch>... now where is that patch anyways.



Ah, yes... Colossal Cave by Crowther and Woods! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/idea.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/idea.gif" alt="" /> I still get warm fuzzies when I flash back to words like, plover, XYZZY and the ever popular, yet annoying, 'You're in a maze ...". *Dabs tissue at mist filled eyes* *sniff* Yes, those were the days when the only graphics that were created came from your imagination. In fact, I love interactive fiction (IF) so much that I am creating a series of fantasy/adventure games for a publisher in the UK. And I know this is <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" /> but I think IF has potential that hasn't even been exploited yet. It hasn't found its legs in the market. For those kids who have reading disabilities or plain don't like reading, I have found that IF is a way to spark their interest and open up a whole new world.

Anyway, back to the discussion. I still have Zork, all of the Might & Magic games, and yes, Fable -- I remember Werdna! One fantastic game. [As you might guess, my gaming library is HUGE since I save every single game.] But Wizardry (the first one) will always remain special in my memory. There was nothing more frustrating than creating the dungeon map only to be teleported to an unknown area. Gosh! Those were hair-pullers. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Which is why I'm probably drawn to games that have more substance than hack 'n slash.

Anyone remember the old King's Quest series by Roberta Williams? (Yes, I still have that series in my library.) Oh! Btw, you can still download those old Infocom games from the IF Archive. So, if you're feeling "Zork-ish", it's in there!


Faralas <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mage.gif" alt="" /> *Thanks for the memories, Grim, Duncan, Fable and anyone else whose name I forgot* <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

Posted By: fable

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 13/05/04 12:49 AM

Anyone remember the old King's Quest series by Roberta Williams? (Yes, I still have that series in my library.) Oh! Btw, you can still download those old Infocom games from the IF Archive. So, if you're feeling "Zork-ish", it's in there.

Another excellent site for IF games, Faralas, is Home of the Underdogs. It takes a while to load, but it has a large selection, including recent releases.

As for King's Quest, I never much cared for it. Now, Hero's Quest...! There was a fine series. I really liked that--and of course, the Monkey Island series, though these started later.

Do you remember Hidden Agenda? That was one of my all-time favorite strategy titles. I've been in correspondence with Jim Gasperini, the author, who offers the old program here.

The Magic Candle series--does anybody recall that? The Atabek brothers came up with some delightfully original ideas, even though they mixed in standard AD&D style elves, dwarves, etc. And Darklands! Now, that was an innovative title. Too bad nobody has grabbed that franchise yet, and decided to do an updating of it.
Posted By: rwartow

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 13/05/04 01:55 AM

Fabulous thread.

Speaking of Wizardry IV, I worked for Sir-Tech on that game as the principal tester and Wizardry V. I took a hiatus as an attorney to enter rpg gaming. If you remember, and pardon the self-promotion, there was a Memorial Fountain named after me on an upper level.

My favorite classic games. Number 1 is Ultima IV for its time (1984, I believe), the most addictive game ever. I took a 2-week vacation to play the game, and just barely finished. Number 2 is Wasteland, a game I replayed recently now that it's abandonware or freeware. The third is another Ultima, II, the first game to cost $50, as I recall. Remember New San Antonio? Flying in space? Certainly the first couple of Wizardry's. Another nostalgic tidbit: The original Wizardry was called Dungeon of Doom and there was no ability to save. Finally, as to frantic rpg moments, was there anything better than having to traipse through the upper dungeon levels in Wizardry, low on hit points, no potions or spells, and just 3 steps from the castle where you could save, there was always an encounter. Talk about sweaty palms. And, that was a game with wireframe graphics, no less.

Colossal Cave. Ah, The Original Adventure. I remember playing the longer 550-point version. You may or may not know that Crowther or Woods, I forgot which of the creators, was a real spelunker and the game environment is patterned after a cave in Kentucky.

As for Sacred, I was one of the fortunate ones who was able to play it through.
I recently closed a high-mark review of the game with the following sentence:

"Nevertheless, given some of the technical problems afflicting some users, I would not purchase Sacred unless I had at least the recommended system levels. I also would avoid that initial patch (1.5), especially if multiplayer is your thing. This is not a guarantee, just a suggestion duplicating my experience."

Thanks all for the nostalgia.

Posted By: janggut

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 13/05/04 02:04 AM

i think this thread should be elsewhere other than in the <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" /> section.

nevertheless, it's wonderful to see very warm & friendly conversations among members & made better by the friendliness of the members themselves. glad to have all of u here in this forum. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" />

sorry for being <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Grim

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 13/05/04 02:18 AM

Quote
i think this thread should be elsewhere other than in the section.

nevertheless, it's wonderful to see very warm & friendly conversations among members & made better by the friendliness of the members themselves. glad to have all of u here in this forum.


Just consider this a restful discussion at the Blue Boar Inn.

Waitress!! The next round is on me <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: LewsTherinKinslayer13

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 13/05/04 02:26 AM

I'm sorry your going to have to talk to the bartender, I'm busy right now.
Posted By: fable

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 13/05/04 04:00 AM

Well, it *was* about my views of how much more Sacred and Diablo resembled one another than either resembled <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" /> but you know how those things go. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> By the way, has anybody tried the Worlds of Ultima series? They were done shortly after Ultima VII was released. Garriott had high hopes pinned on those, and when they didn't do well, he blamed the whole third-person approach. It was probably more a case of moving out of his pseudo-Arthurian Avatar world, and into a pair of Martian/Jules Verne and 1930s pulp "forgotten jungle" universes. Both were very well done, however.
Posted By: Faralas

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 13/05/04 05:11 AM

Quote
Anyone remember the old King's Quest series by Roberta Williams? (Yes, I still have that series in my library.) Oh! Btw, you can still download those old Infocom games from the IF Archive. So, if you're feeling "Zork-ish", it's in there.

Another excellent site for IF games, Faralas, is Home of the Underdogs. It takes a while to load, but it has a large selection, including recent releases.



Home of the Underdogs is one of my 'homes away from home' and a place where I do a lot of research. I'm working on an article on the history of interactive fiction. (Well, I'm working on that in my spare time.) I can also be found hanging out at The Brass Lantern. Steve Granada has written some terrific articles on what it takes to write an IF game, it's target audience and the various platforms IF can be read/played. With the advent of the wireless telephone, my publisher (as are a lot of other game companies) are tapping into that market. Technological advances and the speed at which computers are evolving absolutely amazes me.

Anyway, I could talk IF and gaming until your ears fall off. But I'll spare the bodily injury to our beloved forumites. *g*



Faralas <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mage.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Faralas

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 13/05/04 05:38 AM

Quote
Fabulous thread.

Speaking of Wizardry IV, I worked for Sir-Tech on that game as the principal tester and Wizardry V. I took a hiatus as an attorney to enter rpg gaming. If you remember, and pardon the self-promotion, there was a Memorial Fountain named after me on an upper level.


I've been wracking my brain for the past 5 minutes, but the fountain doesn't spring to mind (pardon the hideous pun]. I have the whole Wizardry Archive on CD and will pop it in for a trip down memory lane so I can find the it.

Quote
...Certainly the first couple of Wizardry's. Another nostalgic tidbit: The original Wizardry was called Dungeon of Doom and there was no ability to save. Finally, as to frantic rpg moments, was there anything better than having to traipse through the upper dungeon levels in Wizardry, low on hit points, no potions or spells, and just 3 steps from the castle where you could save, there was always an encounter. Talk about sweaty palms. And, that was a game with wireframe graphics, no less.


Yep, yep, yep! I had those same sweaty palms but after I figured out that you could keep re-rolling the dice to get a good 'beefed' up party (for the beginning), I would spend hours getting just the right combination of characters. Two fighters, one cleric, one mage and a thief. But the name of the company was not Sir-Tech back then. Wasn't it called Nemesis or Naricon (something like that)? I think Sir-Tech came in on the 3rd game.

Quote
Colossal Cave. Ah, The Original Adventure. I remember playing the longer 550-point version. You may or may not know that Crowther or Woods, I forgot which of the creators, was a real spelunker and the game environment is patterned after a cave in Kentucky.


Will Crowthers and Don Woods were both avid spelunkers and mapped portions of the Mammoth and Flint Ridge cave systems in Kentucky for the Cave Research Foundation. I loved the game's humor and puzzles. Speaking of law firms. I was an administrative assistant for a large firm in Philadelphia in the early 80's until the early 90's. Our first computer system, a Wang, came with Colossal Cave on it. That's how I got hooked. Lucky for me, since I was one of the administrators, I could secretly keep it on my computer, but we blocked the rest of the employees (executive committee decision) from being able to access it. Bad, Faralas! Bad, bad girl!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

Quote
As for Sacred, I was one of the fortunate ones who was able to play it through. I recently closed a high-mark review of the game with the following sentence:

"Nevertheless, given some of the technical problems afflicting some users, I would not purchase Sacred unless I had at least the recommended system levels. I also would avoid that initial patch (1.5), especially if multiplayer is your thing. This is not a guarantee, just a suggestion duplicating my experience."

Thanks all for the nostalgia.


Btw, I have a question: are you a writer now within the industry or are you a game developer (or both)? Inquiring minds and all that!

This has been a great discussion and a wonderful diversion for me since I'm cramming for a deadline when I should be <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sleepey.gif" alt="" />.


Faralas <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mage.gif" alt="" /> (back to work!!)

Posted By: Faralas

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 13/05/04 05:42 AM

Quote
Well, it *was* about my views of how much more Sacred and Diablo resembled one another than either resembled <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" /> but you know how those things go. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> By the way, has anybody tried the Worlds of Ultima series? They were done shortly after Ultima VII was released. Garriott had high hopes pinned on those, and when they didn't do well, he blamed the whole third-person approach. It was probably more a case of moving out of his pseudo-Arthurian Avatar world, and into a pair of Martian/Jules Verne and 1930s pulp "forgotten jungle" universes. Both were very well done, however.


Funny you should mention Ultima, Fable. I was just about to download the first two on to my PDA. I've been doing that with a lot of the old text and infocom games. When I get some spare time, I'll try them out. Ultima is the one series I do not have.


Faralas <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mage.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: rwartow

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 13/05/04 11:04 AM

Faralas:

Oops, it should have been a pool not a fountain. I found this out of an online walkthrough of Wiz IV:

"The Maze of Wandering - Level 4
This level is probably one of the most fiendish to map in computer gaming history. The place is jam-packed with one-way passages, cages, and rotating rooms. One-way passages ought to be self-explanatory. Cages are 1X1 rooms constructed so that a one-way passage enters or that a rotating room (see below) drains into the room. Then it closes on you and you're trapped. You can only escape by casting a Malor (by a spell, a Diadem, or the Cape of Hide) way back to the Catacombs (teleporting higher at this point results in deflection); or you can use the GetOutOfJailFree card (unidentified, 'A Yellow Card') held by a guardian on this level. (Using the card gets you out in a random direction.) Rotating rooms have walls, or one-way passages, on two or three sides. If you enter them, or if you camp in one, the room will rotate in a preset direction (for a particular room the direction is constant, but two different rooms may go different ways). Saving and reloading rotates all rooms like this. (Note that this construct allows two adjacent rotating rooms to have a shared wall; the wall in common may "move around" in both rooms.)

Go 1E, and 1E through a one-way passage. Go 2N into a rotator. Go east through the provided exit into another rotator. Go 2N and hit yet another rotator. Exit and reenter until the rotator faces north, then go 1N and 2W to Pentagram 7. (South of this pentagram there are one-way passages that can trap you in such a way that the only escape is by Malor, and also makes the game impossible to solve though it's not immediately obvious; be careful not to enter that area.)

Summon some monsters (suggested: Wights, Priests of Fung, and Evil Eyes; the Pentagram 7 monsters are relatively weak, so you may want to experiment a little). This pentagram is at (1E, 7N); others may be found at (12E, 0N) and (16E, 16N). As for encounters, they are quite a bit rarer on this level. Dorion's Grays is hard; Dorion has enough hit points to survive a Tiltowait and casts a Tiltowait himself. Khan's Kosmic Killers has no fighter-types (Fighter, Samurai, Lord, Ninja) at all, and its 2 thieves and 4 spell-casters shouldn't hurt badly if you use your Oxygen Mask. Many members of both of these teams can be killed by a Lakanito; those who aren't killed should be finished with a Tiltowait.

2E, 1S back into the rotator. Exit and re-enter until it faces south. Head straight south into a rotator. Exit east. Nearby, at (6E, 6N), there is a rotator. Look around to find the entrance. (If there isn't, save and reload, and one should appear.) Enter and exit south. Ron Wartow Memorial Pool (This is not necessary if you are seeking one of three Evil alignment endings.) Take a dip. Your alignment will change to Neutral. Exit south through a one-way passage. DON'T STRAY from here on; there are many one way passages here that will force you to backtrack. 1E, 1N, 3E, 3N, then 5W through a one-way passage at the end. 1N through a one-way passage. 2N through a one-way passage. 3N. Visit the Witch. You already have the Tannic Acid (the Witching Rod; remember, it came from the wood of the trees, and the trees leaked the pool of acid whence the rod came), the Fe-S-Sub-2 (that is, the Golden Pyrite; a molecule of pyrite is composed of one iron and two sulfur atoms -- Starcross and Stationfall aren't the only games where a little outside chemistry knowledge comes in handy), and the Furred Cone (Magician's Hat). The Blender is a Blade Cusinart' (check out its picture on the copy protection booklet), the Spanish Unguent is the Cleansing Oil (Oil of Ole! get it?), and the Camphor is the Aromatic Ball (all found later). 2S, 1W, 3N, 13E. (There is a pentagram near here if you need it.) 1N, 2E, then 3N to the upper-right hand corner. 6N, 2W, 1N, 2W, 1N, 1W, 2N. Take a Marble (the Aromatic Ball), invoke it once, and keep it safe in the Box. Camp and teleport to (10D, 11E, 19N) if you lost the Black Candle. Then teleport to (9D, 9E, 5N). (Until later in the game you cannot cast Malor to anywhere other than 10 Down and 9 Down.)"

Ring any bells? And, when's the last time you even said "Tiltowait".

The name was always Sir-Tech. It was a corruption of a family of businessmen's name (Sirotek), mainly construction, who knew Robert Woodhead one of the 2 creators of the Wiz series. They supplied the startup funds.

The Original Adventure hooked me, then I was absolutely hooked playing Zork I on an Atari 800 with a cassette tape drive. The first 3 Zorks and Enchanter, considered Zork IV, are unforgettable. I remember getting goosebumps whenever the disk drive whirred, and I knew my answer to a puzzle was correct. Also, remember the big debate about text vs. graphic adventures? What about the spate of graphic adventures, like Sherwood Forest, Brian Fargo (former prez of Interplay) Demon Forge, the original Roberta Williams Sierra stuff, like Mystery House, and my favorite of hers, the most expensive game of alltime until Steel Battalion, Time Zone, $99!!!!!!

I just write reviews for JustRPG (just-rpg.com). Other than working for Sir-Tech, I never worked for the industry, other than writing a first draft of a manual for a New World Computing game. My real industry writing is 15 published strat guides for Sybex, Prima, Brady, etc., mainly on RPG's. (My favorites are the official Daggerfall strat guide, official Xenogears strat guide, and 2 Final Fantasy VII books. But, I haven't written a book in 5 years.

I completely agree about this discussion. I see lots of kindred spirits, who remembered when gaming began, and, in my opinion, topped out. This current emphasis on graphics, sound is beyond me.

Fuff (My favorite character rpg name. I started to use it when someone couldn't pronounce my last name, for some reason, and called me Mr. Fuff.)
Posted By: Faralas

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 13/05/04 12:20 PM

Fuff, (a/k/a Ron <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> )

Just a quick note before I delve into my work day (full of programming and writing). Nexoft developed the first "Wizardry" and Nintendo published it. (I knew the company's name began with an "N"). But, I can't remember when Sir Tech became involved (unless Nexoft and Sir Tech are subsidiaries of one or the other -- or completely separate entities).

And, you're probably not going to believe this, but I do remember that pool. I think that's the game where I expanded my vocabulary to include many colorful invectives that I still cherish today. Except, I will be honest -- I haven't said Tiltowait in over a decade. LOL

Will post more later, as your post has unearthed an avalanche of fond memories. Thanks for the in-depth response. I certainly appreciate the time you took to write it.


Faralas <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mage.gif" alt="" />
P.S. Favorite Wizardry monsters: Earth Giants, Frost Giants and Will-o-the Wisps! (Remember them?)

Posted By: fable

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 13/05/04 12:46 PM

"The Maze of Wandering - Level 4
This level is probably one of the most fiendish to map in computer gaming history. The place is jam-packed with one-way passages, cages, and rotating rooms.


Gods, don't remind me! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> I played through all those Wizardry games when they first came out, and finally convinced PC Magazine to permit a review of one--the fourth, or maybe the fifth. They seemed to think games were something only children played in those days, and they seem to have retreated to that position, again, judging by the current crop of reviewers. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Faralas, check out Might and Magic II (if you haven't already), and probably their best effort, M&M III. If the Ultima series' original tile graphics don't annoy you, look at Magic Candle III, which is VGA. Personally, MC I seems to me a better and certainly harder title, but it's EGA, only. That matters to some folks.

Incidentaly, Spiderweb Software is still making good retro CRPGs with improved tile-based graphics. Definitely worth checking out.

So what was your favorite Infocom game? I think the best I've ever played were A Mind Forever Voyaging and Suspended, though I had great fun with one of their last releases, Nord and Bert Couldn't Make Head or Tail of It. Of course, the original Zork remains incomparable in its own way. I spent many delightful hours pouring over that (speaking of Nord and Bert) when it first came out.

Posted By: rwartow

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 13/05/04 05:02 PM

Faralas:

I stand corrected. I was thinking of the PC Wizardry I that was released in '88 or '89. The NES version, which I thought was published by ASCII came out in '87.

Have you said Makanito or Malito, and what was the name of the teleport spell that you had to use after killing Werdna to land back in the castle?

My favorite Wizardry monsters were the dividing slimes that were made of metal, but the name escapes me, and the Ogres. Remember when Wiz III came out and you actually appeared outdoors along the shoreline, and what a buzz that created?

More Wizardry stuff: Remember in II when the answer to an important riddle was "The Knight of Diamonds" not "Knight of Diamonds"?

Fable:

The current crop of reviewers is suspect. Many seem to write without finishing a game or even going into it deeply. One review of BD actually recited almost verbatim from the developer's cheat sheet that described each act and had a savegame in each one. When I reviewed the game, I played it completely through, and never loaded one of the developer's saves.

Of course, the old days' reviews were not much better in some cases, and rampant conflicts of interest were evident. I remember writing a letter to Computer Gaming World that they shouldn't review any game that advertises in the rag.

Your mentioned several games in which I was a character because of my relationships with developers many years ago. Pardon this shameless self aggrandizement. In M&M III, did you recruit me as Wartowsan, an NPC Ninja? What about Ultima V, where I was a farmer in New Magincia, and even had a mantra. I'm even an NPC in one of the Magic Candles.

Suspended was very tough, until Spellbreaker came along. The Infocom prose was so devastatingly right-on that my niece cried when the robot died in Planetfall.

Fuff (Conqueror of Werdna on more than one occasion.)


Posted By: fable

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 13/05/04 07:46 PM

In M&M III, did you recruit me as Wartowsan, an NPC Ninja?

Hell, yes! I remember using that character. Charged a fair piece, if I recall correctly, but delivered the goods. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> Concerning the reviews, my favorite though remains the IGN one. That reviewer's name I've seen around a lot over the years, too, and no offense meant to you by preferring him. He's always seemed honest. Spoke to him once or twice at E3, and he told me about being kicked off one review staff (Compute, I think) because he objected to an editor mixing his own, very different views about a game inside a piece with his name on it. He may not always be right (I am! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> ), but he's honest. Sounds like you are, too. Maybe there's a bit of hope for an extremely meritricious industry.


Posted By: Faralas

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 14/05/04 01:31 AM

Quote
Faralas:

I stand corrected. I was thinking of the PC Wizardry I that was released in '88 or '89. The NES version, which I thought was published by ASCII came out in '87.


Ah-ha! Yesssss! Now I understand. Sir-Tech must have been the developer for the PC series. Or am I wrong about that, too? I remember the name "Nexoft" quite well since it was me who called them 2-3 times a day for a full week because I kept getting stuck an unlit maze. Now THAT'S frustrating. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Quote
Have you said Makanito or Malito, and what was the name of the teleport spell that you had to use after killing Werdna to land back in the castle?...,
Remember when Wiz III came out and you actually appeared outdoors along the shoreline, and what a buzz that created?


I'm afraid the only 'magical' words I've spoken outside of a video/CRPG were 'could you supersize that, please?' I don't remember the name of the teleport spell. Looks like I'll have to do a search. And now I'm more curious than ever to find the name of that spell!

Quote
More Wizardry stuff: Remember in II when the answer to an important riddle was "The Knight of Diamonds" not "Knight of Diamonds"?


Yes, I sure do! Which is why I remember the actual name of the game other than it being simply "Wizardry II'. I think Wizardry I was called "The Mad Overlord" or something about "...the Mad Overlord"). All of the Wizardrys were sheer masterpieces that paved the way for some of the games we play now. And, the wire-framed dungeons made mapping quite a challenge.


Faralas <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mage.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: rwartow

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 14/05/04 01:37 AM

In M&M III, did you recruit me as Wartowsan, an NPC Ninja?

"Concerning the reviews, my favorite though remains the IGN one. That reviewer's name I've seen around a lot over the years, too, and no offense meant to you by preferring him. He's always seemed honest. Spoke to him once or twice at E3, and he told me about being kicked off one review staff (Compute, I think) because he objected to an editor mixing his own, very different views about a game inside a piece with his name on it. He may not always be right (I am! ), but he's honest. Sounds like you are, too."

Appreciate that, and certainly no offense taken though I've taken you out of my will.......
Posted By: rwartow

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 14/05/04 01:44 AM

Faralas:

Sir-Tech was definitely the developer for all the PC Wizardry's. I worked for them on Wizardry IV and V in 1987-1988. Quite an experience.

The name of the teleport spell is MALOR. Came to me when supersizing at a MacDonald's.

V, VI, and VII were done by David Bradley. His Dungeon Lords is coming out in a few months. He did Wizard and Warriors, or something like that, a few years ago.

Memories are flooding back, and this thread is the cause! Remember when Bard's Tale came out and Might and Magic which took the Wizardry idea and put color in the dungeons. I notice that Bard's Tale is being updated and released soon.

Those were the real glory days of RPG's with all the great series at the top of their form. Ultima, Wizardry, Might and Magic, Bard's Tale, Magic Candle, and others I can't remember.

Fuff




Posted By: Faralas

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 14/05/04 02:47 AM

Fuff,

Yes, I remember buying the Bard's Tale somewhere around Wizardry II or III.

Yep, Malor!! I remember that now. And another phrase that jumped out at me was "Latumapic.' (Can't remember what it meant, but at least I remember it!) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

So, Nexoft developed Wizardry's Video games and Nintendo published them for their platform. And Sir-Tech developed all of the Wizardry Games for the PC (and MAC?). I do know that Sir-Tech's name is well respected within the industry. And for some reason, over the past year or so, there has been a lot of speculation about a re-release of The Bard's Tale but I don't know the specifics, i.e., will be a remake or an entirely new game (which I hope they don't do - it would ruin it, IMHO).

Well, Fuff, I certainly envy your job. Don't get me wrong, I love writing IF, designing its graphics and creating the old text-type games for the new PDAs, PocketPCs and wireless phone systems, but I've always wanted to be part of a team creating a unique and immersive RPG world.

*sigh* This trip down memory lane has spurred me on to load Wizardry I, Proving Ground of the Mad Overlord (see? I remembered the name!!!) and play it again. I have the RPG Archives Collection (12 CDs that include all of the Wizardry games, some M&M and Ultima. You're right -- they are the games that made up the 'glory days'.


Faralas <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mage.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Faralas

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 14/05/04 02:55 AM

Quote
Quote
.... He may not always be right (I am! ), but he's honest. Sounds like you are, too."


Appreciate that, and certainly no offense taken though I've taken you out of my will.......


Ooooooo, Fable! Now you've gone and done it! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cry.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cry.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cry.gif" alt="" />

And to think, I could've said "I knew you when...," <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" />


Faralas <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ROFL.gif" alt="" />



Posted By: rwartow

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 14/05/04 11:34 AM

Faralas:

You ask, I respond. Below is a complete list of the Wiz spells. Notice Latumapic means "Identify".

Here's a link to a gaming site impression of the new Bard's Tale supposed to ship 8/30 of this year: http://ebgames.com/ebx/product/media/relatedmedia.asp?pf_id=243575&element_id=A6096591

Working in the industry for a short time was fun, and talk about an immersive rpg world. I remember having to annotate and correct the Wiz database. Unbelievable length and detail.

"I love writing IF, designing its graphics and creating the old text-type games for the new PDAs, PocketPCs and wireless phone systems, but I've always wanted to be part of a team creating a unique and immersive RPG world."

Putting out rpg's is so hard. Then, there's the incredible sniping that goes on when people on disparate machines can't get it to run. I notice many complaints are from people whose machines are underpowered and not equal to the recommended specs. On the other hand, the Sacred situation was terrible where seemingly 1/4 to 1/2 of those purchasing the game were having trouble running it. (I came up with that from the comparison from the official Sacred forums of those asking hints and those having tech problems.

BTW, I have no clue what IF means. Help!**

Enjoy Wiz I.

Fuff
------------------------------------

PRIEST SPELLS

LEVEL 1

Spell Name : KALKI
Translation: blessings
Spell Type : COMBAT
Area of Ef.: THE PARTY
Kalki reduces the armor class of all party members by one

Spell Name : DIOS
Translation: heal
Spell Type : ANY TIME
Area of Ef.: 1 person
Dios restores from one to eight hit points of damage from a party member

Spell Name : BADIOS
Translation: harm
Spell Type : COMBAT
Area of Ef.: 1 monster
Badios causes one to eight hit points of damage to a monster

Spell Name : MILWA
Translation: light
Spell Type : ANY TIME
Area of Ef.: entire party
Milwa causes a softly glowing light to follow the party, revealing secret
doors
Spell Name : PORFIC
Translation: shield
Spell Type : COMBAT
Area of Ef.: caster
Porfic lowers the armor class of the caster a little

LEVEL 2

Spell Name : MATU
Translation: blessing & zeal
Spell Type : COMBAT
Area of Ef.: entire party
Matu lowers armor class of all party members by two

Spell Name : CALFO
Translation: X-ray vision
Spell Type : LOOTING
Area of Ef.: caster
Calfo allows the caster to decide what the trap on a chest is 95% of the
time

Spell Name : MANIFO
Translation: statue
Spell Type : COMBAT
Area of Ef.: 1 group of monsters
Manifo causes some of the monsters to become paralyzed temporarily

Spell Name : MONTINO
Translation: still air
Spell Type : COMBAT
Area of Ef.: 1 group of monsters
Montino causes the air around a group of monsters to stop transmitting
sounds, and therefore makes it impossible for them to cast spells

LEVEL 3

Spell Name : LOMILWA
Translation: more light
Spell Type : ANY TIME
Area of Ef.: entire party
Lomilwa is a more powerful Milwa spell that last for the entire expedition

Spell Name : DIALKO
Translation: softness/supple (what's a supple?)
Spell Type : ANY TIME
Area of Ef.: 1 person
Dialko cures paralysis, and cures the effects of Manifo and Katino

Spell Name : LATUMAPIC
Translation: identification
Spell Type : COMBAT
Area of Ef.: entire party
Latumapic tells you exactly what the monsters really are

Spell Name : BAMATU
Translation: prayer
Spell Type : COMBAT
Area of Ef.: entire party
Bamatu lowers armor class by four

LEVEL 4

Spell Name : DIAL
Translation: heal (more)
Spell Type : any time
Area of Ef.: 1 person
Dial cures 2 to 16 points of damage

Spell Name : BADIAL
Translation: hurt (more)
Spell Type : COMBAT
Area of Ef.: 1 monster
Badial causes 2 to 16 points of damage

Spell Name : LATUMOFIS
Translation: cure poison
Spell Type : ANY TIME
Area of Ef.: 1 person
Latumofis cures poisoning

Spell Name : MAPORFIC
Translation: shield (big)
Spell Type : ANY TIME
Area of Ef.: entire party
Maporfic lowers casters armor class by 1, and lasts for entire expedition

LEVEL 5

Spell Name : DIALMA
Translation: heal (greatly)
Spell Type : ANY TIME
Area of Ef.: 1 person
Dialma restores 3 to 24 hit points

Spell Name : BADIALMA
Translation: hurt (greatly)
Spell Type : COMBAT
Area of Ef.: 1 monster
Badialma causes 3 to 24 hit points of damage

Spell Name : LITOKAN
Translation: flame tower
Spell Type : COMBAT
Area of Ef.: 1 group
Litokan causes a pillar of flame to strike a group of monsters, doing 3 to
24 hit points of damgae to each

Spell Name : KANDI
Translation: location
Spell Type : CAMP
Area of Ef.: 1 person
Kandi allows the user to locate characters in the maze. It tells on which
level, and in which rough area the dead one can be found.

Spell name : DI
Translation: life
Spell Type : CAMP
Area of Ef.: 1 person
Di causes a dead person to be resurrected, but the character has only 1 hit
point, and it doesn't always work

Spell Name : BADI
Translation: death
Spell Type : COMBAT
Area of Ef.: 1 monster
Badi gives the monster a coronary attack, which may or may not cause death

LEVEL 6

Spell Name : LORTO
Translation: blades
Spell Type : COMBAT
Area of Ef.: 1 group
Lorto causes sharp blades to slice through a group, causing 6 to 36 HP
damage

Spell Name : MADI
Translation: healing
Spell Type : ANY TIME
Area of Ef.: 1 person
Madi causes all hit points to be restored and cures any condition but death

Spell Name : MABADI
Translation: healing
Spell Type : COMBAT
Area of Ef.: 1 monster
Mabadi causes all but 1 to 8 hit points to be removed from a target

Spell Name : LOKTOFEIT
Translation: recall
Spell Type : COMBAT
Area of Ef.: entire party
Loktofeit causes all party members to be transported back to the castle,
minus all of their equipment and most of their gold

LEVEL 7

Spell Name : MALIKTO
Translation: the word of death
Spell Type : COMBAT
Area of Ef.: all monsters
Malikto causes 12 to 72 hit points damage to all monsters

Spell Name : KADORTO
Translation: resurrection
Spell Type : ANY TIME
Area of Ef.: 1 person
Kadorto restores the dead to life, and restores all hit points

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
MAGE SPELLS

LEVEL 1

Spell Name : HALITO
Translation: little fire
Spell Type : COMBAT
Area of Ef.: 1 monster
Halito causes a flame ball the size of a baseball to hit a monster for 1-8
HP

Spell Name : MOGREF
Translation: body iron
Spell Type : COMBAT
Area of Ef.: caster
Mogref reduces the casters armor class by 2 temporarily

Spell Name : KATINO
Translation: bad air
Spell Type : COMBAT
Area of Ef.: 1 group
Katino causes most of the monsters in a group to fall asleep

Spell Name : DUMAPIC
Translation: clarity (what's a clarity?)
Spell Type : CAMP
Area of Ef.: not applicable
Dumapic informs you of the party's exact position from the stairs to the
castle

LEVEL 2

Spell Name : DILTO
Translation: darkness
Spell Type : COMBAT
Area of Ef.: 1 monster group
Dilto causes one group of monsters to be enveloped in darkness, which
reduces their ability to defend against your attacks

Spell Name : SOPIC
Translation: glass
Spell Type : COMBAT
Area of Ef.: caster
Sopic causes the caster to become transparent, and reduces armor class by 4

LEVEL 3

Spell Name : MAHALITO
Translation: big fire
Spell Type : COMBAT
Area of Ef.: 1 monster group
Mahalito causes fiery explosion in a monster group, doing 4-24 hit points
dam.

Spell Name : MOLITO
Translation: spark storm
Spell Type: COMBAT
Area of Ef.: 1 monster group
Molito causes sparks to damage half the monsters in a group for 3-18 hp dam.

LEVEL 4

Spell Name : MORLIS
Translation: fear
Spell Type : COMBAT
Area of Ef.: 1 monster group
Morlis causes a group of monsters to fear party, twice as powerful as Dilto

Spell Name : DALTO
Translation: blizzard blast
Spell Type : COMBAT
Area of Ef.: 1 monster group
Dalto does 6-36 hit points damage

Spell Name : LAHALITO
Translation: flame storm
Spell Type : COMBAT
Area of Ef.: 1 monster group
Lahalito does 6-36 hit points damage

LEVEL 5

Spell Name : MAMORLIS
Translation: terror
Spell Type : COMBAT
Area of Ef.: all monsters
Mamorlis causes all monsters to fear the party

Spell Name : MAKANITO
Translation: deadly air
Spell Type : COMBAT
Area of Ef.: all monsters
Makanito kills any monsters of less than 8th level (about 35-40 hit points)

Spell Name : MADALTO
Translation: frost
Spell Type : COMBAT
Area of Ef.: 1 monster group
Madalto causes 8-64 hit points damage

LEVEL 6

Spell Name : LAKANITO
Translation: suffocation
Spell Type : COMBAT
Area of Ef.: 1 monster group
Lakanito kill all monsters affected by this spell, some will not be affected

Spell Name : ZILWAN
Translation: dispell
Spell Type : COMBAT
Area of Ef.: 1 monster
Zilwan will destroy any one undead monster

Spell Name : MASOPIC
Translation: big glass
Spell Type : COMBAT
Area of Ef.: entire party
Masopic reduces armor class of entire party by 4

Spell Name : HAMAN
Translation: change
Spell Type : COMBAT
Area of Ef.: variable
Haman has random effects, and casting it reduces your character's level by 1

LEVEL 7

Spell Name : MALOR
Translation: apport
Spell Type : COMBAT and CAMP
Area of Ef.: entire party
Malor teleports the party randomly when used in melee, but if cast in camp
in camp, you can decide exactly where you want to go

Spell Name : MAHAMAN
Translation: great change
Spell Type : COMBAT
Area of Ef.: entire party
Mahaman does something random, stronger than Haman

Spell Name : TILTOWAIT
Translation: Nuke 'em 'till they glow
Spell Type : COMBAT
Area of Ef.: all monsters
Causes 10-100 hit points of damage to all monsters
Posted By: rwartow

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 14/05/04 11:43 AM

Faralas:

"Appreciate that, and certainly no offense taken though I've taken you out of my will......."
"Ooooooo, Fable! Now you've gone and done it!"

Not a big deal. My will contains a few coins, minor bequests to my family, and a mint copy of Ultima II.
Posted By: fable

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 14/05/04 01:35 PM

Quote
Faralas:

"Appreciate that, and certainly no offense taken though I've taken you out of my will......."
"Ooooooo, Fable! Now you've gone and done it!"

Not a big deal. My will contains a few coins, minor bequests to my family, and a mint copy of Ultima II.


LOL! I've still got a few of those complete old boxes hanging around, too. I think I kept Ultima V, the original Magic Candle, Darklands, Might and Magic III--at least those for certain, perhaps more. What's interesting is how carefully the developers tried to get you into the mood of the game with maps (remember the cloth maps that came in some Ultima games?), exotic fonts in manuals, even little metallic objects. They really went to a good deal of trouble on that count. Quite a few recent games haven't even bothered to put a mnaual in the box: it's on the harddrive. I've been told this is to improve "ease-of-use," which is a nice eumphemism for "we didn't want to go to the expense, buy it and shut up." <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: rwartow

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 14/05/04 05:47 PM

Fable:

Don't know whether I have mentioned this, but many years ago, in dire financial straits, I had to sell my collection on eBay. My signed Ultima 1 went for $500. Time Zone garnered $125. Sundog $20. Ultima III $100. I sure miss having them around. BTW, I still have the cloth map from Ultima's III and IV.

Fuff
Posted By: fable

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 14/05/04 08:49 PM

Quote
Fable:

Don't know whether I have mentioned this, but many years ago, in dire financial straits, I had to sell my collection on eBay. My signed Ultima 1 went for $500. Time Zone garnered $125. Sundog $20. Ultima III $100. I sure miss having them around. BTW, I still have the cloth map from Ultima's III and IV.


Me, too! In fact, I came across Ultima IV over the last few hours in the original box, with everything still in it. Ultima III for $100? Amazing. I wonder if anybody would pay for an original, completely intact box of Darklands, with the original, highly informative hint guide that was sold separately by Microprose. I never thought that gaming could make anybody money, except, of course, distribution franchises and bigname publishers.

Do you by any chance remember Murder on the Zinderneuf, or Ali Baba and the Forty Thieves?
Posted By: rwartow

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 14/05/04 10:16 PM

Fable:

"I wonder if anybody would pay for an original, completely intact box of Darklands, with the original, highly informative hint guide that was sold separately by Microprose."

Ah, Darklands, one of the original buggiest games. I just checked eBay. A straight copy of the game along has been bid "up" to $7.50.

"Do you by any chance remember Murder on the Zinderneuf, or Ali Baba and the Forty Thieves?"

I sure do, mainly the former which was part of EA's original offerings along with others including Larry Bird vs. Magic Johnson, the incredible M.U.L.E. whose theme music I play occasionally.

Speaking of EA, quite a forced segue, no?, I went to the Consumer Electronics Show in 1986, the first one where games were prominently involved. (Now, E3 going on as we speak is THE gaming show.) I was the head of the largest Gamesig in the country, and knew many of the gaming luminaries. Get this for great gaming namedropping! I was standing around with Trip Hawkins (founder of EA), Lord British (Richard Garriott), Brian Fargo, former prez of Interplay. For some reason, I decided to ask the group the best game they ever played. (Mine at the time was the incredible Star Raiders for the Atari 400 and 800!) Trip Hawkins looked and me and answered "Star Raiders". Quite a moment in my gaming life.

Fuff
Posted By: fable

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 15/05/04 01:23 AM

I was at all the E3s, too, until a few years ago. Name dropping: feh. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> I've met the people you speak of. To the best of my knowledge, they were just as human as everyone else on this board--though I have my doubts about Garriott. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

When I was last at Microprose, under their third owner, they had some stuff up on a blackboard clearly showing MULE development. I quizzed 'em on it, and they admitted to working on a successor. But then they were bought out again, and things rapidly went downhill. Too bad. I especially liked the chocolate chip cookies that Sid's mother used to bake.

Darklands *was* buggy, incredibly so--for the time. It went through 8 patches, large and small.

Sacred has gone through 12 patches, 6 of each.

But no one thinks twice about that, anymore. Makes you wonder.
Posted By: rwartow

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 15/05/04 11:26 AM

Fable:

"When I was last at Microprose, under their third owner, they had some stuff up on a blackboard clearly showing MULE development."

One of the artists working on Sid's updated version of Pirates lives in my building. Maybe, if I'm lucky, I'll get a chance to see it early.

"Sacred has gone through 12 patches, 6 of each. But no one thinks twice about that, anymore. Makes you wonder."

The current spate of bigtime RPG's are so massive. I recall someone mentioning that there are millions of lines of code for an rpg.

Happened to stumble across an "abandonware" site last night. These games are available for download, and the number of rpg's is staggering. I had forgotten many of them until that site refreshed. Remember Hard Nova? Escape from Hell? Betrayal at Krondor? You can download these games for free. For many you have to also download some program that lets you play dos games under the modern faster computers.

Posted By: Faralas

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 15/05/04 12:36 PM

Speaking of Microprose, when I ordered Gothic I through Amazon (got it from one of their vendors), I received a free game called "Majesty". (Nice boon). It's a Fantasy Kingdom sim, which I have yet to load on my computer. But even more interesting is I had never heard of Microprose until I received the game. Fable, what kind of company are they? Small? Large? Medium? (I'm just curious and like to keep informed about this kind of stuff).

Plus, I had completely forgotten about abandonware. If anything, one can find some excellent gaming ideas in some of those long-forgotten projects.

I'm glad I'm not the only person who has spent a lot of time on computer and video gaming. It combines 3 of my favorite pastimes and passions: writing, graphic design and technology. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/party.gif" alt="" />


Faralas <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mage.gif" alt="" />




Posted By: Abanyir

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 15/05/04 12:50 PM

Microprose used to be quite prolific back in the Amiga 500/Atari ST days - I remember Microprose Soccer being one of their more popular titles.

No idea what they are doing these days...

Anyone know what happened to the Bitmap Brothers (Xenon, Xenon 2, Chaos Engine, Gods)??
Posted By: rwartow

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 15/05/04 05:49 PM

Faralas:

"But even more interesting is I had never heard of Microprose until I received the game. Fable, what kind of company are they? Small? Large? Medium? (I'm just curious and like to keep informed about this kind of stuff).:

In the early Apple II and PC days, they put out some war sims, Silent Service and Pirates being 2 big ones. They had as chief programmer one of gaming's true superstars, Sid Meier, of Civilization and Master of Orion fame, plus a lot of wargames. Pirates is being updated for modern computers and is to be released in November. Sid Meier now has his own company called Firaxis, I believe. Microprose may be gone, not sure.
Posted By: fable

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 15/05/04 09:01 PM

Quote
Speaking of Microprose, when I ordered Gothic I through Amazon (got it from one of their vendors), I received a free game called "Majesty". (Nice boon). It's a Fantasy Kingdom sim, which I have yet to load on my computer. But even more interesting is I had never heard of Microprose until I received the game. Fable, what kind of company are they? Small? Large? Medium? (I'm just curious and like to keep informed about this kind of stuff).


Micrprose was "Wild Bill" Stealey's first game company. Stealey was a decorated fighter pilot. He had connections, energy, intelligent and focus. He had an eye for talent. He was also rude, completely uninterested in anything outside his narrow field of vision, and unconcerned about marketing or budgets. He built a company of brilliant, dedicated programmers and gave them room to do what they wanted to do. He also made enormous mistakes in judgement--like never putting out a sequel to a big hit. Civilization was an enormous hit for Microprose in 1991. Do you know when they finally got around to its followup? Seven years later.

They were never large. Garriott had delusions of grandeur (of at least, Walt Disney) and hired enormous numbers of people, but even at their height, I don't think Microprose had more thirty or forty fulltimers on staff. I'm sure they farmed out parts of their activity for a game. In the end, they fell victim to their inability to hit deadlines, with many fine titles remaining vaporware after 2-3 years work.

Majesty was one of Cyberlore's games. They used Microprose for distribution; it was towards the end of the latter's existence. It was great fun, sort of a god sim/strategy title, in which you created buildings for heroes, who spent money buying potions, weapons, etc. You put bounties on the heads of evildoers, and your heroes killed 'em--earning the money. I understand a Majesty 2 has been in development some time, but the company keeps putting it on the backburner for other projects. It appears no current distributor is really interested in a title that's so non-formula, and that's so wrong.
Posted By: Faralas

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 15/05/04 09:44 PM

Abanyir, Fuff and Fable,

Wow! This is turning out to be a well-informed group! And you are all so much more interesting (and fun) than hanging out at developer sights! I'm appropriately impressed.

Thanks for shedding some light on Microprose. I sometimes forget there were computers before the days of the IBM pc. And it just occurred to me, my mother had an Apple back in the early 80s and even though she's passed on, I think my father still has it.

Majesty is not a game I would have purchased. Although I do like medieval RPGs, Majesty is a sim. I've never played a sim. But since this fell into my lap for free, looks like a good opportunity to try something new. Thanks for the info. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" />


Faralas <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mage.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: LordMalis

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 16/05/04 03:48 AM

Majesty is indeed an excellent game. I still have it on my hard drive along with its expansion "The Northern Expansion" (great name <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />). I still play at least once a month. Its one of those games with "personality" IMHO. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: NightOwl

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 16/05/04 06:25 AM

Hi all. Saw this thread as I was looking for info on charms and crystals. Wow, does this bring back memories. Does anyone remember "The Summoning", an old SSI PC game? In my opinion that was the first great action/adventure RPG. Lots of battles mixed with some great puzzles. God, I loved that game! I may have to get it out of the attic and replay it.
Posted By: fable

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 16/05/04 07:06 AM

The Summoning was a fine title, but the one I recall liking best by Event Horizon Software was Veil of Darkness. They were largely into third-person action games filled with complex puzzles and large, well-designed traps. Both The Summoning and VoD were quite a departure for them--the latter a bit too linear for me, but with a compelling story, good puzzles, and attractive graphics and dialog.

Posted By: NightOwl

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 16/05/04 07:26 AM

Yep. Veil of Darkness was good, although much too short. I could be wrong, but The Summoning and VoD may have been the first games to use 3D isometric perspective and real time combat. I always had a sneaking suspicion that Blizzard modeled Diablo (at least a little bit) on The Summoning.

Posted By: Abanyir

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 16/05/04 05:29 PM

Faralas,

I think we are all just getting old <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> - my parents always hoped I would grow out of this computer game thing by the time I was 20... but here I am 10 years on and if anything my addiction is worse now than it ever was (though with having a full time job I can't stay awake till 3 or 4 am playing anymore <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ).
Posted By: Tovi

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 16/05/04 05:36 PM

You're right though. Computer games is not something you 'grow out of', like many people think.

The reason people think is, because older people these days tend to not play videogames (with a few exceptions always). But the reason they don't play videogames isn't because they 'grew out' of them, but because of the generation gap! They never grew up with videogames, so they never really start playing them. Alot of them don't start because they think it's very complicated, or can't get used to it.

As for the new generation, most of us will grow up with computers and/or consoles in our very homes. This is a major difference ofcourse.

I think that by the year 2050, most gamers will in fact seniors, simply because that generation will understand videogames, like videogames, but ontop of all, have the time to play videogames. (All the time in the world!)

And you know what? I'll be happy when that time comes, because frankly I'm getting tired of 1337 13-year olds ruining perfectly good games like Counter-Strike, or any other multiplayer FPS for that matter...
Posted By: Abanyir

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 16/05/04 07:07 PM

It's not so much the 13 year olds I object too - it's the damn cheaters!! I mean what is the point in playing an online FPS if you are going to cheat?? Where is the skill in that? (Though I guess a lot of the cheats are 13 year olds <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> )

Most embarrasing multi-player fps moment for me was losing to a bunch of 13 year olds at counter strike at a big LAN party... they were good sports though so I couldn't hold a grudge!
Posted By: janggut

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 17/05/04 01:14 AM

abanyir, just admit that u're going down the hill. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> kids, u know as a fact, absorb so much that whatever they can learn, they'll learn them quick & put the teachers to shame. well, unless it's something they hate. like math. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

maybe we should let lynn know about this thread & move it to a more appropriate section.

@ faralas, wow! u amaze me! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> same goes to the rest of the intellectual gamers. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Faralas

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 17/05/04 10:43 AM

Quote
Faralas,

I think we are all just getting old <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> - my parents always hoped I would grow out of this computer game thing by the time I was 20... but here I am 10 years on and if anything my addiction is worse now than it ever was (though with having a full time job I can't stay awake till 3 or 4 am playing anymore <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ).


Abanyir, I stopped aging at 29. It wasn't doing a thing for me and every year it was the same: have a party, eat cake, get a few gifts, sing a stupid song, blah, blah, blah! So I just said, "to heck with aging," and quit -- cold turkey. Easiest thing I've ever done. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

And if my parents' wishes ever came true, I'd be a concert pianist, Olympic skater and world renowned author with three Nobel prizes in literature. When would I ever have time for computer games? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />


Faralas <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mage.gif" alt="" />



Posted By: luciferos

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 17/05/04 06:03 PM

I own both Sacred and BD. Have to say I like BD a lot better. Sacred has its good points, but I don't like how Ascaron makes you uninstall Nero Burning Rom and Alcohol 120% just so you can play. That kind of takeover shouldn't be allowed. And I found that after installing all the updates and such, the buggy copy protection drivers ground my system to a stand still when I wasn't even playing (moving large files took forever because it would send for a bit, freeze, send a bit, freeze). I had to reformat my computer just get rid of it. Since I got rid of it I've had no problems. But besides that, the graphics are pretty good, but the multiplayer aspect should weed out the rest of the bugs, and I do like how it shows you what percentage of the map you've discovered. Adding Tristram from Diablo is pretty cool addition too.

Beyond Divinity is my favourite though. I prefer the random item system better in it than Sacred. I found a lot of useless garbage in Sacred, and I find a lot of good stuff in Beyond Divinity. That's what I like. The battlefields are awesome, too. I was very interested when I heard about it before BD's release. I just wish the monsters would respawn and match your level so that you don't have to clear out a bunch of levels that give you nothing experience wise (to prevent abuse, they could set a level cap on each of the dungeons. That'd work well).

Either way, they're both good, and I can't wait for DivDiv2.
Posted By: Abanyir

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 17/05/04 07:51 PM

Sacred makes you uninstall Nero????

Well, that certainly made up my mind not to buy it... Been thinking about it for a while as I want to wait to play BD until the patch situation stabalizes and am waiting for patch 2 for Temple of Elemental Evil before I really get into that.

Guess I will continue on with BG1 TuTu instead <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: AlrikFassbauer

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 17/05/04 09:25 PM

That has been misunderstood a bit.

The reality is that the copy-protection is so aggressive that the game sometimes won't run (I've seen reports of that) when Nero or Alcohol is on your hard drive (well, Alcohol isn't healthy, anyway).

That's it what was meant.
Posted By: Tinman

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 20/05/04 09:07 AM

Quote
What Diablo had were randomized dungeons, fantastic graphics (for the time), and a lack of competition for a few years so it could claim to be the first. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />


Bzzzzz!! Wrong. Sword of Fargoal had it all; literally decades before Diablo.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Just thought I would point that out! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mage.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Abanyir

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 20/05/04 11:21 AM

Yikes... those screenshots look like they came from a Mac... if so you have my sympathies <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: fable

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 20/05/04 12:29 PM

Bzzzzz!! Wrong. Sword of Fargoal had it all; literally decades before Diablo.

Er, what you're demonstrating is exactly what I was saying, above. Maybe that part about the "lack of competition for a few years" wasn't clear enough. Sword of Fargoal was much, much earlier (I remember playing it with friends when it first appeared on their new machine). If we look to PC games made within say, 3 years before Diablo, there was nothing. And given the young gamer's retention span and knowledge of computer gaming, 3 years was asking a lot. Most think CRPGs began with BG1, and consider Diablo a "model RPG." <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: AlrikFassbauer

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 20/05/04 12:45 PM

Reminds me of Nethack ...
Posted By: Tinman

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 20/05/04 11:00 PM

Quote
Yikes... those screenshots look like they came from a Mac... if so you have my sympathies <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Heh- It's still a fun game to play to this day. Built on the Vic 20, refined on the Commodore 64, I believe it was released on the Mac as well. You can score it here after you get bored of BD. Home of the Underdogs.
Posted By: Tinman

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 20/05/04 11:05 PM

Quote
Most think CRPGs began with BG1, and consider Diablo a "model RPG."


LOL Not from where I come from. My first recollections of CRPG's include Phantasy, Bard's Tale (there's a remake in the works folks), and Ultima. I suppose there where Rogue-like games ahead of those mind you (or maybe text-based games), maybe on the PET or some such. However, I see you point regardless.
Posted By: Chacranajxy

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 21/05/04 12:54 AM

I really liked Sacred, but after playing it for 20 hours and finally beating it, it had gotten kind of repetitive. Still, 20 hours was a good amount of time to invest, so I'd say that the game is worthwhile. However, it's not as good as Divine Divinity or Beyond Divinity, which are both in their own class.
Posted By: RedruM

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 21/05/04 12:30 PM

BG 1 LoL <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Diablo model RPG ROFLMAO, mindless hack&slash is more like it, 0 RPG !

For those of you who want to play old abandonware games on Win XP etc :


http://www.angelfire.com/realm/zeroone/

remember to also install the vddms sound plugin !

HF
Posted By: fable

Re: Been playing Sacred a bit. - 22/05/04 12:25 AM

Quote
LOL Not from where I come from. My first recollections of CRPG's include Phantasy, Bard's Tale (there's a remake in the works folks), and Ultima. I suppose there where Rogue-like games ahead of those mind you (or maybe text-based games), maybe on the PET or some such. However, I see you point regardless.


The Phantasy games! Great stuff. Haven't heard anybody mention them in years. Ultima I got me involved in gaming away from a mainframe. Fascinating times, those, before it became a straight-jacketed industry.
© 2020 Larian Studios forums