I thought I'd just post my thoughts about Divine Divinity vs Beyond Divinity.

First, I'll say that Divine Divinity was one of my favorite RPGs from the last few years. It's been described as a cross between Diablo and an Ultima game, and that's exactly what I loved about it.

I'm really enjoying Beyond Divinity also, but I greatly prefer Divine Divinity for several reasons:

1. I love cities in RPGs. In DD, I was never very far from a city or at least a group of friendly NPCs to talk to. I've played BD for a long time and have seen nothing but dungeons so far.

2. BD seems a bit buggy.

3. The world was much better to look at in DD. I particularly like outdoor, natural environments, and DD had plenty of that. Maybe things change later on in BD, but so far I've only seen miles and miles and miles of gray or brown walls. I'm dying for some fresh air here. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

4. This will sound funny, but I hate having a demon in my party. It's a GREAT story element, but I'm having trouble getting past having to drag a demon along with me and keep him alive. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I really loved the old companions in the Ultima games. I like the feeling of having good folks in my party in RPGs, and now I'm stuck with THIS guy? Ugh. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

In general, I think I liked EVERYTHING about Divine Divinity more than Beyond Divinity. In particular, I liked the fact that DD felt almost like an Ultima game at times. Don't get me wrong, though. I'm definiately having a good time with Beyond Divinity also. I'm just hoping that your next game will be more like the original Divine Divinity.

What act are you on in BD?

By the way, just so you know. Divine Divinity was also buggy when first released, but the latest patch seems to have gotten rid of pretty much all major bugs. There are still a few minor bugs left, but nothing too worrying.

There is no comparision, in my opinion, between Divine Divinity and Beyond Divinity, for all the reasons you've outlined.

I'm still playing Divine Divinity (the original version, unpatched, because the bugs don't bug me and frankly I've barely noticed them). Beyond Divinity is on it's fourth patch in a week, and it still doesn't work right.

Plus I just don't like anything about it as well as I liked DD. It's a good game; it's just not a great game, and nowhere near as addictively fun as DD.

Give <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" /> time. Some skills are still broken and quite a few are unbalanced, but there's potential in it for a game that's deeper and more varied that Divine Divinity. As it is, I still find it fun, annoyances and all.

Out personal experience I can tell you that <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> was also buggy. (Blue screen of death buggy).

I am with you on the open world thing i realy like that. That acts in <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" /> where introduced because some players of <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> got confused by the large quest list (ruining it for us all <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/disagree.gif" alt="" /> )

As for what game I liked best. I can not answer that theire just to diffirent.

Makes me wonder what direction <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" />² will be in. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" />

I was thinking about that, but I think it might have had to do with other things aswell. Like performance or something.

Personally I feel however it was to decrease the size of savegames. Remember how in DD your savegame was 100mb+ per savegame? Well, I think that BD was cut into 5 pieces to reduce savegame filesize, as you don't have to save what happened in the previous act.

Or is my theory just completely wrong?

Hmmmmm, sounds like you may have missed one or two things if all you've seen are dungeons. *evil nudge* When I began playing BD, I spent days and days in that dungeon until I decided to go back to the beginning (not restart a new game) of the dungeon (in the prison) to see if I missed anything. Sure enough, I did. One was even a quest! LOL

Maybe you want to try the same thing? Sounds like you're ready for a breath of fresh air -- DD style. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />



Faralas <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mage.gif" alt="" />

P.S. Btw, welcome to the forums! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

I agree with you a lot on most of your points (don't mind the Death Knight, myself, except that he keeps getting killed and taking me with), and I'm glad I'm not the only one. I loved the look of DivDiv, and I miss having a starting level like Aleroth; I too am starved for converstaion and fresh air. Plus I personally prefer the kind of 2D graphics DivDiv had, but that's just me, everyone I know likes the 3D better.

Of course, this is not to say that I'm not enjoying Beyond Divinity. I'm not great at handling parties, so it's a bit of a learning curve for me, but except for the bugs and the immovability of the character portrait window, I'm having an excellent time playing it. And I'm nowhere NEAR done with the game, so I'm sure that eventually I'm going to come across the kind of areas I like playing.

I think that DivDiv was great for someone like me, who missed all the gaming years between 1998 and 2003 due to antiquated technology. ("No, I don't need a 3D card in my laptop," said the girl graduating from high school, "I'll be fine with out it! After all, how much am I going to want to play games?") The system was incredibly intuituve and easy to understand, so I was able to get into the gameplay immediately. Beyond Divinity's got a steeper learning curve... so I'm off to go play it some more. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> was way better in my opinion. It was like Diablo meets Morrowind, and that was the game of my dreams. This... seems too linear, and i REALLY hate the battlefields thing. My favorite part about <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> was just wandering around uncovering the entire world map, finding neat little things along the way. I sorely miss that among this neverending dungeon.

Oh, and word of advice: Stamina is lame. I could do without it.

Well, when I wrote that, I was at the end of act 1. Of course, the beginning of act 2 includes some of the very things that I was missing so much. Still, though, I stand by my basic point. I don't really like the idea of spending an entire act (mostly) in a gray-walled dungeon. I like spending some time in dungeons, but spending an entire act there makes the game seem too much like a "generic, nothing special RPG" to me.

As others have said, the world of Divine Divinity felt more like a real world to me. The Beyond Divinity world seems a bit too much like it was contrived just for me to enjoy hacking and slashing. I like the hacking and slashing, but I prefer for it to be integrated into a world that seems alive and real. As others have suggested on these boards, the idea of a 50-50 mix between Ultima/Morrowind and Diablo 2 seems like a dream come true game. Divine Divinity was almost there, but BD seems to move in the opposite direction.

Again, I want to stress that I'm really enjoying Beyond Divinity. It's just that Divine Divinity was a game that makes me drool and pant for more; Beyond Divinity seems like just another good game.

Imo Beyond Divinity has several dubious design decisions. One which is the battlefields, which i detest, they are something utterly bad and contrived. Mindnumbingly boring like Dungeon Siege. But worser imo, is that the battlefields TOTALLY destroys the need for the teleporter stones, if you just can warp to the battlefield merchants to restock, heal yourself or sell loot. The tport stones was an innovative addition to divdive, but here they are practically unneeded.

Also im having a beef with the skill system, there is way too many options, and far too little skillpoints. In Divdiv you could become proficient with a weapon type for only 5 skillpoints, only restricted by your level in how much you could play in one. Were in BD, you need 50 skillpoints to totally master one weapon. The skill system is very badly burned by that most skills take 10 points to max, or some 50 even.

Also the game is very biased towards fighters, as mana costs of spells is astronomical, you take too long to regenerate, even with a hefty investment in survival.

Beyond divinity should take a page from diablo2, in how you gain an amount of mana per level even, depending on class, meaning you would have a steady increase in mana. So you dont have to spend your first 100 statups to increase intelligence to get a decent mana supply.

And something is waay off with how heavy items is, my main char has a strenght of 60, and is decked out in items, and i cant lug around many more, because they weight extremely much. A ring weighing more than a full platemail? Seems to me that somehow the mods on the item, adds more weight too.

Lastly, i prefered the large open gameworld in divdiv, where you just could go wandering, find new towns and quests out in the wild. Beyond divinity is too disjointed, you will practically only find one major place of trade in every act.

first & foremost, welcome to the forum, neferjackal.

as for the battlefield or BF as most call it, it has always, since <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" /> was on the drawing board, been an option. that means should u feel that it's not integral to the game environment that u wish it to be, then u don't have to venture into it. it's actually a more realised version of easter egg. so please don't knock it off just because it has too much dungeon siege elements, as many are into it because of that same reason. it's a place where u can have your break.

I have to agree with 1 and 3

I copy that.

Dark enviroments tend to get boring really fast. I love towns, cities, green grass, flowers, animals and so on. I like the possibility to get my own house too, like in Divine Divinity, but would be nice if you could get it earlier in the game, and maybe different houses (cheap and more expensive ones). I really hope Divine Divinity 2 will be more like Divine Divinity on these points. It was also great to have the ability to access most of the world from the beginning, makes the game feel more open (more role playing and less "follow the road").

With Larian games you should wait a month after the realease to buy it because they will be bugged out everytime. I also thought Divine Divinity was better in every aspect accept the items which I thought were better Beyond Divinity.

yeah sure.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> tell that to my bleedin eyeballs...... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />
it's different is all.....and just as highly addictive <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/stupid.gif" alt="" />

It might be fairer these days to say, "With all games, you should wait a month after the initial release to buy the product, because each will be extremely buggy." <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

not ALL of them, they're bugged, that's true, but nog critically bugged... only SOME are bugged that way

I've always thought Divine Divinity was a bit tough. But then I only played a Warrior, and the Black Ring always owned me because of their spells. It's almost always a massacre. :P The sheer amount of quests in that game that you could do pretty much at the same time also overwhelmed me.

I remember in the very beginning, where you had to restore the wizard's sanity (I can't remember his name, haven't played it in a while <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/disagree.gif" alt="" />), the skeletal guardians and the casters always destroyed my character. A lot of things could easily destroy you, now that i think about it.

I've stopped playing BD since a while now. I was at the beginning of act 2; when those critters with their telephatic link decided I was bad and that they had to kill me especially when I had no control over my character (ie: in an event)

The good sides of BD where not enough to make me play again. I do not like the new skills system, the environment, the dungeons, the battlefields, the fact I have two morons to guide (one doing something stupid as soon as I switch to the other char), ... I think that's pretty enough to stop.
I've just switched to the next game. This is sad because I liked DD so much and BD just doesn't match.

I still come to the forums each week or so to see if anything good happened to the game.

Some people say not to compare the two games...but how can you not compare them? Set in same universe, play the same way, and look the same in a lot of places...but DD was the game that brought me to this forum and kept me here for months because
a)I loved the game and played it to the finish (which is a rare thing for me to do)
b)The people here on the forum are sound!

If I had never played or heard of DD, and started out with BD, I think I would have enjoyed BD more. I am enjoying it, but just not on the level I did with DD. I try not to compare, and people would say you shouldn't...but it's there in the back of my mind all the time!

It's not because it's more of the same, it's because it's NOT more of the same...the huge open map of rivellon that was a joy to explore is the feature I miss the most from BD.

Because of the split acts in BD it feels like I'm playing 4 smaller games of DD that just don't have the involvement DD had...you got to know the different areas, and villages and NPCs but in BD you blink, and they're gone, you're on the next act.

I got to act 3 in less that 15 hours because without fully realising it, I was doing the main quests to advance the story before I did the side quests. Especially difficult to be aware of this in act 2 where the 'main' quest doesn't have any hint in it that it's leading you to act 3!

I'm enjoying the game for what it is, and it is fun.

I wholeheartly recommend that for anyone who hadn't played either game, and got DD with BD, play BD first, then DD. DD is so good it should have been the sequel!

Regards
Plowking <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

I agee with plowking (but I like mr plow a whole lot better <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" />). I would die a happy man if <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" />² would have the best things of both games.

gameworld of <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" />
skills & party of <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" />
crysal bag of <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" />
freedom of <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" />
sidequests of <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" />
story of <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" />
dolls of <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" />
reputation system of <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> (reputation di't influence my game I think in <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" />)
detail of <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> (like when stealing the guards would come)
pickpocet,sharpen skill and hammer skill of <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" />
ending of <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" /> (well the ending of <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> sucked )
personal traits of <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" />
loading tips of <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> ( <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" /> loading tips weren't all that funny exept for the sleeping in game as well.)

I'll just chime in here. Good comments plowking. Is the comic strip over BTW?

I think <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" /> had a LOT of expectations to live up to. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> was a gem. An absolutely charming and addictive game and it would've taken a lot to beat it.

Nothing wrong with the alterations made to the system in <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" />.It just seems a lot less people liked it. Maybe the Larians could think about this when making <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" />2.

Can't live in the past though. There will always be people who object to change.

Personally, I like both. I thought I didn't last night after dying to yet another trap <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> but I breathed deep, calmed down and started the game again and went back from another save. Something dragged me back to it. Call it the <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> factor maybe.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

The comic strip should return soon, hopefully! It's hard find the time between work, girl friend, going out, and playing games when I should be writing the next strip!!!




This happened to me the other night, after clearing off a huge chunk of map I was thinking I'll save it after I open this.......... bang - dead!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/memad.gif" alt="" />

I closed it down in sheer frustration!!! But...guess I'll go way back to my save....

Well personally I consider <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" /> an experiment. So eventually the best of both worlds will come one in <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" />²

So shall it be written and so shal it be <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

To be fair, the Larians have already said they pretty much ran out of time after the gong strike. The wastelands and everything that followed was hastily put together to give the game an ending.

I'm sure the actual ending the Larians had in mind would've been much better. But we'll never know.



Why that's just not true. The chieftain's son already said he'd help you "leave this place" if you helped him find the alchemist who could cure the sick imps. That seems like a hint to me.

Did he say that...I wasn't listening, what with the tibars attacking me!

At the risk of people replying about how 'linier' it'd be, I'd prefer if you had to go into the other areas like the spider and mushroom forests for some reason before you can find the alchemist and leave the act.

I guess I'll throw in my nickel as well.

There are mainly two areas that I felt BD lost big points to DD, and a few small ones.

1- The battlefields, so boring, they could have been a 100ed times better, but most of them just require running down to dungeon level 3 to complete almost every quest (I gave some suggestions in another topic of what I would have liked to see in them).

2- end game <span class='standouttext'>Spoiler : </span><span class='spoiler'> only 4 acts?! arg, I was very, very disappointed, I wanted at least one more act in revelon (sp?), they could have easley made Sammy the final boss after entering the rift, and made the death knight/Daemion run away leaving the hero to deal with Sammy alone, leaving room for one last act, this act would have been a refreshing change of pace after that long--- trek through Nemesis, would have made the game longer, and probably give a more complete feeling, the game still can end with Daemion getting beat by the hero and run away leaving room for the expansion/sequel, IMO they should have used the extra time to make another act instead of "improving" the voice acting -_-; </span>


And for a few smaller gripes

1- bugs! lots and lots of bugs! lots more bugs! big annoying game stopping bugs! (ok this is kind of a big gripe but its already been beaten to death <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> )

2- summon dolls are nice but still doesn’t beat real party members <span class='standouttext'>Spoiler : </span><span class='spoiler'> I was disappointed when that rennar elder (can't remember her name) just left withought offering to join up after restoring her </span>

no contest.

Divine Divinity is head and shoulders better than Beyond Divinity.

The gameplay in Beyond is slow, linear and fiddly.
The game layouts are very very dull and the acting is appalling.

Seeing as how Diablo 3 may never ever exist, Beyond Divinity was my Holy Grail that turned into a Sows Ear.

They turned a decent franchaise into a sad Baldurs Gate clone.

if they dont go back to the Diablo with a plot model, perhaps introducing network multiplayer aspects, i wont be purchasing another Larian game.

hello-

i am getting divine divinity today, I am wondering if you consider it a difficult game to finish?

thanks

Maggie <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> [color:"red"] [/color]

hello-

My picture is not working under my name, does anyone know why that is happening?

thanks

Maggie <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/down.gif" alt="" /> [color:"red"] [/color]

hello-
Welcome to the Forum maggie...... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

is your avatar linked to an image online?

hello-

i'm not finished yet, so i don't know the answer to that one! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" />

Hello-

I am not sure since I do not understand any ot it? Can you help a beginner?

Thanks

Maggie <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" />

Maggie, where is your picture located? Is it on a webspace in the internet or a pic on your PC?
Kiya

If it is a pic on your local machine - it will not show up. I can host it for you, if you wish. Send this pic to [email]kiya1@t-online.de.[/email] I will upload it then to my server and send you the URL link, so you can add it in "my home".

If you look at my pic => right click and then on "properties" => you will see an address, the URL link => http://kiya1.de/images/mapavavic.jpg => see? this is the link, Jurak mentioned.

hello-

have seen yours and looked at the url. thanks for helping, that is one thing I always have a problem with.

Maggie <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" /> [color:"red"] [/color]

Hello Again-

I believe mine is on my computer in my documents and then pictures.

Maggie <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

Ok, then please send your pic as an attachment to me, I will upload it then and send you the URL link via PM.
Kiya

kiya1@t-online.de - as the pics only are allowed to have 80x80 size, I might have to resize it, if it is larger - would you mind?

Kiva-

My picture is there and looks great thanks to you. Thanks so much.

Maggie <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" /> [color:"red"] [/color]

ah, so you took one from Hellfighter's link? Looks very nice <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" />
Kiya

Yes, I though it looked nice and got lucky and it fits, so you were right 100%
Hope anyone who needs help will ask you as I did not know what I was doing and your a big help.

Thanks

Maggie <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" /> [color:"red"] [/color]

We're an international voluntary team of gamers here, Maggie <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> - some gamers made wonderful avas and host them (I sent you 2 of those links) - others make beautiful maps, so helping becomes easier - some specialize on giving tech help, are very excellent combat tactic cracks etc. => so, those sharing knowledge create the content of this board.

When I started on the old forum, I knew nothing => not to link, let alone this whole webspace business - I only knew how to research. Patient gamers taught me every little thing (and I really mean, every nitty gritty little detail), provided me with programs, answered my questions etc. So, I merely pass on this knowledge, as a thank you for all these teachers putting a great effort in educating me <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" /> (hoping, they will teach me more)
Kiya

Kyia-

I am glad you had such wonderful teachers and that you are able and willing to pass on what you have learned. I still wait for some sites to answer me and sometimes wait for weeks. I wonder why they have a forum if they are not going to answer. I love most of the forums and get so much information. The Dungeon Siege one is just great and I have learned a lot, just as I hope to learn alot from this one. I will probabley have many, many questions.
Thanks again personally from me, it means a lot when someone is willing to use their time on me to help.

Have a wonderful Day.

Maggie <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" /> [color:"red"] [/color]

and to come back to the topic yes you'll enjoy devine devinity and it's fairly easy to finish (if you don't get the bug and just keep roaming the Rivelon country side for hours and hours and hours) If you start as a warrior it's easy if you go mage invest in firebal in the beginning. The rest is just enjoying the ride.

BTW is there a devine 2 comming? coool If it'll be the fusion of devine and beyond it can only be awsome.

xd

hello-

I downloaded one patch for Divine Divinity, hope it is the correct one. I would hate to wander for days and days and days, that is what I sometimes do. But since I enjoy my gaming so much, I just shut it down for a day or so and then recharge my batteries, at 57 I seem to be doing that alot. Thanks about all, I really appreciate the time you took.

Maggie <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" /> [color:"red"] [/color]

Yep <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Don't expect it before Q4 2005 though.

Hi maggie! Welcome to the forums. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" /> I think our 'batteries' came from the same lot since we're about the same age (give or take a few). <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> But shutting down gaming is not an option for me since I'm helplessly addicted to all RPGs, PC, Playstation and XBOX. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shhh.gif" alt="" />

To answer your 'difficulty' question, I think you're going to find Divine Divinity challenging in the beginning, but as your character gets stronger and you get used to the interface and gameplay, it becomes an extremely enjoyable game.

I seem to have a M.O. when it comes to any kind of RPG when I first begin any game. It takes me a while to get used to its interface. So, it's very rare for me to stay with the first character I create. Usually by the third restart, I've got a good handle on the gameplay. That's what happened when I began playing Divine Divinity.

Also, in addition to Kiya, you can always send me private message should you have questions or get stuck. I'll do the best I can to help you.


Faralas <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mage.gif" alt="" /> By the way, I love your avatar (picture). It's pretty.

DD didn't come with your copy of BD? odd.

speaking of broken skills, when do they plan on fixing the lockpick skill?

Hello-

No it did not and it was not used, so I do not know why it happened.
Guess I am up a creek for awhile.

Thanks

Maggie <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" /> [color:"red"] [/color]

bummer. well i hope you enjoy anyway. both are fun.

welcome <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

More than a while. I'm beginning to get a sense that Larian has no intention of rebalancing the badly skewed skills system. They're patching for bugs, but the things that both players and reviewers have pointed out--like broken lockpicking, overwhelming pickpocketing, the split between one-handed blades and one-handed-blade-with-shield skills, the way melee improves because of the skill but archery has to depend upon your character's attributes, the lack of skill points which leaves no room for mistakes or just experimentation--remain untouched. I'm frankly disappointed. I expected better from the developers of Divine Divinity.

You may be all very disappointed with <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" /> but I love it and all Larian games. No matter what I will always stick with there games. So I think you should all spend more time enjoying the game then dissin it. Or if you can't think of anything else, mail Larian and give them some helpful tips for there next game.

Glad you like the games, Nightmare. I like them too. And welcome to the forums. This is the "suggestion" forum and IMO, the appropriate place to give Larian feedback. The majority of the posts in this particular forum contain constructive criticism. I think Fable's latest post is well-thought out and reflects relevant issues that concern some of us [the players]. Both DD and <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" /> attracts a wide age group and not everyone is a gifted communicator or has the ability to keep their frustration in check. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Faralas <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mage.gif" alt="" />

Actually, Nightmare, if you'd bothered attending this forum before, you would have discovered that I'd been a relatively strong supporter of the game since it first appeared in the US. I've acknowleged both its good points and its failings, and my remarks upon the latter aren't out of line with those that many other players and some reviewers have noted. You may think I should "spend more time enjoying the game then dissin it," but I think you should spend more time reading the background of remarks here, before you jump in and make assumptions that are palpably inaccurate. Feel free to read back over the last 60 days if you want my positive take on things, my more optimistic assessment of the state-of-the-game, and my 100+ posts in the Help area to assist newbie players. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

Had you bothered to check earlier posts, you would realize that Larian has made some claims on these boards--such as stating that they would deal with the balance issues in order to get a higher rating, promised in an IGN review (if and when they accomplished this). Nothing's been done on that front, despite the words. I think it's fairly apparent after two months on the market that while the patches will deal bugs, they won't fix or balance the skills. If Larian can't even be bothered to separate out skill points from monster hit points (so that we can have more skill points without finding monsters too easy), then they're hardly going to take on the more time-consuming task of realigning the skills themselves.

I'm glad you enjoy Beyond Divinity that much. Only give some thought, next time you post on the subject, to the fact that the views of others may go beyond simply black and white, and may have put a fair amount of thought into the game before posting.

About that one-handed skill and the with-shield skill, I wonder why so many people are angry by it.

I mean like... With the one-handed skill, you get proficient with one weapon in one hand ( the PURE one-handed weapons blacks out the shield slot in the inventory like everybody knows I suppose ).
With the with-shield skill you can fight with a shield and a weapon in each hand.

The with-shield skill MAY look better, because you can block hits and you get more armor, but it decreases your attack speed and accuracy, and by what I heard, they are no really good shields in this game ( that's what I heard, i'm playing with a ''tank'' character with shield and have yet to find a ''special'' shield ).
With the one-handed skill, you cannot block and have less armor, but you do not lose additional speed and accuracy. And I stumbled on pretty nice one-handed weapons that cannot be equipped with a shield.

Personally I prefer with a shield because it gives me that ''paladin-that-protects-people'' feeling.

But from what I see they are no big differences between those two skills. Each skill has its good and bad points. I also think the one-handed weapon do more damage than one-handed weapon with shields, and less than two-handed-weapons ( between the two )

And, I heard that Beyond Divinity is not the first game having this separation one-handed skill / with-shield thing.

But I agree with the skills, they should begin to concentrate on that. Altough quite a lot got fixed I think.

I think it's because one-handed skill automatically implies one-handed-with-shield in all CRPGs up to this time--literally. I can't think of a previous game that has separated them out, and I've been playing CRPGs since the early 1980s.

So I took the skill, and equipped a shield because it provided me with a higher armor rating. I slogged through plenty of combat situations that were incredibly hard, despite putting as many as 5 points in this skill just to make those battles easier. Damn, I figured, those enemies must be very tough, even on this level of difficulty...!

Only later, after getting to my first battlefield, did I discover that the reason those battles were so infernally difficult was because I'd equipped a shield, literally nullifying my skill and all the points I'd dropped into it. And now, since (like every other player) I wanted to equip a shield, I was going to have to pay to get those points removed, and buy the skill with shield use.

Why do it that way? Why force players to buy a skill early in the game that no one in their right minds would invest in, given that a far better one exists? The only thing I can figure is because it's a cheap method of getting players to spend cash erasing their skills, so they have less gold available for items and other skills. In short, it's a money soak, and an irritating one. I don't mind money soaks if I feel like I'm getting something for my cash. But in this case, I feel a bit cheated by the arrangement of skills, forcing you to learn something that will prove largely useless as you advance. (This also applies to magic skills, since the really good ones don't show up until Act 2. By contrast, as much as I detest AD&D, their system does provide some level 1 and level 2 spells which remain very effective even after your character soars in power and experience.) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Well, in the beginning, I quite enjoyed fighting with one weapon, it was quite effective, with some potions...

I wanted to get a shield too, but for background purposes... I plan to ''test'' the one-handed skill on one of my characters once I finish the game, so I can see what one-handed skill can do in the long run.

But... I think this one-handed skill and whit shield skill was not such a bad idea...

Well, you HAVE to pay for the with-shield skill of course. In this case, to pay less, it's better to continue with the one-handed skill, and once you can buy the with-shield skill from the punished soldier doing the dishes in the citadel ( only cost 900 gold pieces for with-shield slashing-crushing-piercing skill, it's cheaper than in the battlefields ) then you can unlearn the one-handed skill.

That's what I did. It cost like 4000 gold pieces to unleran the skill of both characters. But to buy the skills I wanted it only took like 1300 gold pieces.

Well it can be frustrating if you don't know in the beginning that wearing a shield while being specialised in the one-handed skill disables the points you put in that skill ( many people didn't notice it like me ), but personnaly, for me it's not that bad.

I'm talking for myself of course, I don't want to put my opinion in other people's throat ( did I get this sentence right? )

But I can't help me think that separating One-handed and With-shield added a bit of ... realism in the game...

I mean... train yourself in the use of a sword during a week, and then, wear a heavy shield on you're other arm, and then try to fight like that... You'll be off balance pretty soon I suppose <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

In the other way, train yourself in the use of a sword AND shield, and then try fighting WITHOUT the shield... I think you'll feel yourself a bit... ''unprotected'' <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

To force myself NOT to write a page-long post, I'll have to admit I was pretty confused by this skill-separation in the beginning also, but I got used to it.
Of course not everybody thinks like me, and I'm a weirdo anyway <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" />

Hi-

From what I had heard of the game, I had expected more and am dissappointed. Not sure if I will keep it or just pass it on. You would figure these companies would not release with so many bugs or problems.

Maggie <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

hi-

Have you ever tried to email some of these companies? Some make it impossible for you. Try to email Microsoft, that is a joke, you look for hours on their site and get no where and how many of these companies would listen to our problems or do they send emails saying we made a mistake, that is the norm.

Maggie <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/down.gif" alt="" />

By Ghaleor:


By fable:


I can't say that I'm 'angry' about the added 'with-shield' skill but probably more perplexed. And it's for the very reason fable mentioned. Up until now in every CRPG I've played, one-handed fighting implied 'with a shield'. I guess the question is: why the change? Is it because it can be done? Or for another reason?

I have noticed a trend among the newer CRPGs where characters can become more specialized in their chosen field. I.e., Morrowind goes to almost an extreme with their alchemist. The alchemist can use a pestal and mortar, a retort, an alembic or calcinator and there are loads of ingredients from which you can choose to mix potions. I.e., herbs, minerals, plants, animal by-products, etc. And I found that I could get lost in the many choices I had if I wanted to become a Secret-master alchemist. Not that alchemy has anything to do with warrior skills, but this does go to show that developers seem to be aiming for more versatility and diversity in character creation.

Some players may find it fun, others might find it confusing and some may just not care. Personally, the more choices I have, the better I like the game.

I've been playing BD using my hero as a Wizard and the DK as a survivor which has made for an interesting game thus far. Next time around I would like to try playing one a warrior and the other a survivor or mage.

This time around I decided not to spend any skillpoints on the 'with shield' skill and from Ghaleor's post, I think I made a wise choice. I don't think I would have made it through the first Act since I'm not much of a 'hack 'n slasher' (I'm gettin' old and the eye-hand coordination ain't what it used to be. LOL) Maybe next time around I'll have one character specialize in one-handed/with shield.

Interesting discussion.


Faralas <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mage.gif" alt="" />

Actually, Maggie Larian is a company that does listen to our problems. They have done a super job on delivering patches for the bugs in the game. There are some companies who release a game and it's 8-9 months before the first patch is even released. Also, if you look around on these boards you will note that Lar, Lynn and everyone keep an ear to our concerns. I don't expect them to fill every request that's on the board, but as far as companies go, Larian has gone above and beyond the call of duty, IMO. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" />


Faralas <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mage.gif" alt="" />

I guess they didn't really think out the game to good at the beginning, thats why there is so many porblems with the game. But hey thats ok, they have been making patchs like every month to fix these problems and yes the company is always there for you because I asked them a question and they answered the next day and even gave me more info then what I needed. While other companies don't answer for 2 weeks or even a whole month! Larian is the greatest company and always will be. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Keep up the AWESOME work Larian! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I am glad that the company is so good at responding to emails. Most I had found just the opposite and did not want to run into the same thing. With Adventure Games it is great and sometimes they email me several times an hour with answers if I have questions. Not that everyone will be that quick. But I am glad to hear that Larian is. Can you tell me where I can find all the patches for Divine Divinity and is there more than one? I put one on.

Thanks

Maggie <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mage.gif" alt="" />

Goto http://www.divine-divinity.com/english/index1.htm and click downloads at the bottom. Then click the patch button on the page.

With respect, Nightmare, I'm glad that Larian answered your questions so quickly. They are very good like that--but that hardly makes them the greatest company on the face of the earth, nor does that ensure that they will continue to be so at any time in the future. Meaning no offense, and of course each to his/her own, but reasonable praise is the most valued praise.

Answering questions is one part of maintaining good customer relations. Getting out patches is another. On these grounds, Larian has done well. Producing a relatively bug-free product is a third, and here, Larian has done very poorly. The original English release actually included the first two patches from the German release, and it was extremely buggy. We've had several more major and minor patches since then. It's still got a number of problems.

And like I wrote before, the balance of the game is severely skewed. You're welcome to like it, but those of us who feel that all the skills in a skills system should work, and that combat skills should provide alternate methods of success, have been disappointed with Larian's lack of response. There's been no answer to mulitple requests and questions, on that front. Their silence has been overwhelming.

As you play <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" /> more, perhaps your opinion will shift; if not, I truly hope you continue to enjoy it to the end. For me, though, Divine Divinity remains a superior game, and Larian's unwillingness to revise code to deal with major skills problems is disturbing as well as off-putting. I hope you can accept a difference of opinion without believing that the views of others are necessarily wrong, and must be changed. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

What people look for in a RPG differs, of course, but to me any comparison to BG is a great compliment. What attracts me to the Divinity games is that there is plenty of action as with Diablo, but also many side quests, a large, open game world, and a plot more interesting than just "kill zillions of monsters followed by one BIG monster"....Lots of people still play Diablo 2, so that style of game is still alive and well and available....

I am really pleased that Larian is still producing great RPGs for the PC while so many other developers are making junk for the console market. If I want Diablo, I'll play Diablo. I am sure many of us will be lining up for the next Divinity game when it comes out. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

I thought that Baldur's Gate had a "sword and shield style" of fighting--or something similar....some classes could learn to wield a weapon in *both* hands (Minsc had that ability I believe, while the Druidess had the sword-plus-shield skill).... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Yes, the series did have two-weapons fighting. But the skill to use a single weapon in the games always meant both one weapon by itself, or one weapon with shield, your choice. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hi-

I am still stuck at the beginning of the game, I cannot get a key picked up, how do you pick up anything, cannot find any information to tell me how. Or I will be stuck in this bloody town!!!!!!!!

Thanks

Maggie <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

Hello Kiya-

How are you? I am the same, stuck in the town trying to pick up a key I lost. Sometimes I think I am hopeless and yet I do other games so good. This one does not like me I think.
Have a nice weekend.

Maggie [color:"red"] [/color] <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

With most keys you should be able to just left click on it to pick it up, assuming you are close enough or have an open path to it. Anything else that does not have a default action of being picked up when clicked on (such as books) can be retrieved by drag-and-dropping into the inventory or onto a character's portrait in BD (or the interface bar in DD).

Sorry, Maggie, I seem to sleep over here in Europe when you are online <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shame.gif" alt="" /> - Raze explained it, right? If you hit the ALT key and left-click on the key description, you char should go over to it and pick it up, unless there is something in the way. Always check if the item you wish to pick up, is highlighted in grey (near enough) - a red highlighted item is too far away.

As some items open by clicking (books, containers, manuscripts) you need to drag&drop => either into your char's portrait or into the open inventory. And here the item HAS to be highlighted in grey: Every time, you come across an unusual item, not responding to "left click" (sulphur, coal, and other quest items) just use drag&drop.
Kiya

if you play <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> => procedure is the same, but as no character portraits exist, you can drag&drop something into the little bag icon at the bottom of the task bar - or open your inventory, to drag&drop. Town... hm is it Aleroth?

Dear Kiya-

We are in Mountain Time here, I imagine there is quite a difference in time and sorry I just did not think of that.I understand what you told me better, so thanks for taking your time. How is your weather there? It is 110 here in Arizona today, I feel like a nice jump into a nice pool would be really good!!
As you can probably tell I am at the beginning of the game. I wish I could find a Strategy Guide, I don't buy many, but sometimes I need something and sometimes I wander around for hours and hours. Of course it is good excercise for the character, but mine has a good figure.
Hope that you are fine and doing well, it is always nice to hear from you and I really appreciate your help.

Thanks

Maggie <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mage.gif" alt="" /> [color:"red"] [/color]

http://www.planetdivinity.com/include.php?path=content/walkthrough.php

this one is from Moriendor => for Divine Divinity.

http://www.locusinn.com/index.php?h...mp;amp;l1=Walkthrough&infoID=125

this here is for download as pdf => for Divine Divinity, at LocusInn and made by Val mainly.

A published strategy guide is only available in Japan - care to learn this language? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

I'm fine, thank you <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />
Kiya

Just because a door is locked doesn't mean your missing a key. Take a close look around you just might find a switch. Never give up, if you try you can accomplish anything. If you still need help check out the walkthrough at www.gamefaqs.com <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

hello-

Thanks for the walkthrough, it looks good and I will print it out. My husband says I use more paper than anyone he knows.
I am going to keep the game, read the manuel and plug along and hope to do well.
Thanks for helping me.

Maggie <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" />

Kind of strange seeing someone with a name similar to mine. LOL. Welcome nightmare.