----

[color:"orange"]UPDATE: June 17th, 2005[/color]

Upgrading your nForce2-based motherboard ATA controller driver may lead the copy protection system to fail. You will have to clean your system from the previous nForce driver for Starforce to work with the new one.

----

[color:"orange"] What is StarForce? [/color]
StarForce is a PC copy protection system.

[color:"orange"]Does it require drivers to run? [/color]
Yes, StarForce installs its own drivers in order to run. These drivers can be safely removed and are only ever used when the game is launched or in progress.

Download the StarForce cleaner here (file size: 16,7 kb) to uninstall the StarForce drivers. You should only use it when you want to erase Beyond Divinity from your hard disk, otherwise, if you want to play the game again (or any other game that uses StarForce protection) you will have to reinstall those drivers.


[color:"orange"] I have heard that StarForce and SafeDISC are not compatible on the same system, is this true? [/color]
StarForce has extensively tested these claims and can report that they have found no issues, across a multitude of operating platforms and driver combinations.

[color:"orange"] I have heard that StarForce 'dials home' and is like 'spyware' [/color]
Again, this is untrue, the version of StarForce that we are using does not dial home, nor does it collect, or transmit any information about your computer over the internet.

***

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/exclamation.gif" alt="" /> IMPORTANT <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/exclamation.gif" alt="" />

The Windows XP Service Pack 2 [color:"red"]BETA[/color] is reported as being not totally compatible with StarForce, so be sure you use a [color:"red"]FINAL[/color] version of Windows XP Service Pack 2 if you encounter problems with the game.

***

These FAQ's will be monitored and any further questions you may have will be answered and placed here.

Thank you Lynn, for the official information. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" />
It will be a great help to all those confused beings! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/alien.gif" alt="" />

Way to go Lynn <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" /> at least now us Paranoid deviants can at least feel safe, now that it is in Black & white errr white & blue <grin>

...Though in future, it would be appropriate to let the user be aware of what gets installed on their systems! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/down.gif" alt="" />

I was quite shocked to hear of this being installed without notification..
Shame that it won't take as long to crack as long as it took you to protect this game.. (not mentioning the amount of time you spent on dealing with the bugs in this game!)

Read my signature.


<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" />


Why do you need to say it installs things on your computer? If you do that you need to say what every file in the game is too!

That is your oppionion, i respect that.
I won't mention the fact that this particular software isnt actually the game itself..........Moreover, it is actually more a nuisance than protection, coz we all know how long it takes to crack. Honestly, i cant wait for the crack to come and remove this protection AND the software called StarForce from my system. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/badsmile2.gif" alt="" />
But isnt that illegal? ...Oh and Starforce installing itself without permission is legal? ..oh ofcourse there is no spyware.. well, if it put itself there without my consent AND knowledge, im NOT going to trust that am i!?

I did not ask for it when i bought the game.
If a game is really good, people will buy it if its worth it..
Even if it is cheaper to DL it, i will go out and buy that game because the programmers deserve that credit for their hard work.

Protecting a game is ultimatly really a waste of time, resources, reliability and performance (to me anyway).

The one game that will impress me most, is one without protection at all..

That will also be the game the most peole will pirate because it will be so easy to do.

Consent?

Did you agree to the EULA? Did you click INSTALL?

I think when you clicked instal it meant you were agreeing everything that was being installed was of your own free will.

Here is all the info I found out about StarForce on Digital Jesters forums from the StarForce person there.

These are all direct quotes, so might not make sense. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" />












Long Quotes sorry!!!

All except one of those quotes was taken from this thread.

http://www.digitaljesters.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4468&page=1&pp=15

"That will also be the game the most peole will pirate because it will be so easy to do."

--> Yes exactly my point right there, people will pirate like mad.. I would have used it to test out BD, and then i would have come to a conclusion!
...lol, i dont even need to GIVE my conclusion... I would not buy the game and it would be INSTANTLY removed from my system.
...why not DL a demo instead? No, they only show you in a demo what they want you to see.
Unfortunatly, the idea doesnt work.. Too many programmers and companies who are unsuccesful in delivering *quality* software, will go bankrupt..
....Shall i name a few? ...hmmmmm... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shhh.gif" alt="" />

"Consent?
Did you agree to the EULA? Did you click INSTALL?
I think when you clicked instal it meant you were agreeing everything that was being installed was of your own free will."

.....Was that your "default" response? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ROFL.gif" alt="" />

--> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Well Gee-wiz then why no mention of Starforce or similar in the EULA?! Oh, i know, its in there, but its not mentioned by name.. In fact, we will just install whatever on your system just because you clicked yes! And we will give you even more bull**** should you dare to complain about it!!!!

Thank you.

No it wasn't.



Yes please! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Its not mentioned by name? Er, so? In the EULA there is no thing that says " Oh BTW, we are installing a file with voices on it. We are installing another file with voices on it. Guess what, yep, you got it-another one! And so on. they don't need to mention every single file do they??




Well, yeah, whatever. You DID click yes. Its not there fault anymore. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" />

They're giving away free bull****?

AWESOME! I need some new fertilizer for my lawn here, its summer you know. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Not much rain at all here. So I could really use some free bull****. I can imagine it now! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

They are so nice!

But I do't think its BS, it sounds pretty true to me. I don't have any problems from StarForce.

I for one am upset about the whole starforce thing, nowhere on the game box, cd, manual, eula, readme, install did it ever mention that 3rd party drivers were going to be installed on my system, so they did so without my knowledge or permission, also i don't feel its right that these drivers prevent other legal software from functioning at the same time as them i.e. cd emulators, just because these tools are sometimes used by hackers it does not give you the right to prevent a piece of legal software to run while your game runs, seeing how this software is legal you have absolutley no right to prevent it from working, thats my decision to make, also it is absolutely ludicrous that a person should have to access the internet to get a piece of software to remove these drivers, what if a person has no internet access, you have an obligation to provide them with the tools to remove these drivers with the piece of software they purchased seeing how nowhere was it ever stated that these drivers were going to be installed or give the opportunity to not install them, not too mention these drivers interfere with cd-r devices as well as usb devices and they themselves are hidden, i think this is a total breach of the end user rights and if not produced by a corporation for use as videogame protection it would surely be categorized as spyware. I have no problem with the concept in general of copy protection, it is just the way in which these ones totally ignore the purchasers rights.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" /> Nice one fishboy, you are absolutly right! ..However sorry to say, that Larian and "Larian loyalists" give you free bull**** when you give your oppionion. Thats expected though as they included this "state of the art" protection to invade your system with this *nearly* excellent (beta) game, and rumor has it that you do agree to Starforce being installed on your system, somewhere in the EULA???? ...i think not!!!!

For me it not so much the problems it gives, though it does make me more angry thinking about it that other people suffer alot from this StarInvade(oops, i meant FORCE.. FORCEINVADE maybe???), for me its the sly and sleek way you are SEEMINGLY allowing this to be installed!! You cant live without it either coz it comes with the game!!! This is somewhere a relieve coz the game is currently just crap to play, for me anyway. Oh patch v2.00 where are you?

If i had been informed during install, or even before of this SpyForce (doing it again! oops!) being installed, i would have *largely* appreciated that!
Being informed afterwards is extremely out of order!

Take a look around all the forums on the net. Only about 1 in 30 gamers accept the use of Starforce. More and more find out about it each day, and increase these figures in favour of the 30 majority.

In order to find out if Starforce is doing it's job, perhaps someone from Larian could tell us if their projected sales have been met, and how many copies have been returned. Now that piracy has been eliminated have their profits increased X10 or 20 times...

To be honest, I think Starforce has cost larian more than it saved them, and I'd wager they won't use it in their next generation products. Perhaps they could also let us know if they intend to use it again?

Sadly, I think if you did a poll thread on here, that most people would be in favour of Starforce, as everyone is a BD fan. What I would like is a game that actually does a full install when it says it does. No need for a disc in the drive, and backups made simple.

The only bad thing about StarForce is that it isn't listed anywhere.. So much noise about it. Don't think there is a need to be aware. There are many ways to deal with it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" />

In Russia almost every licensed game comes with StarForce (at least for the past 2 years). It's really sad.. One half of my CD was cracked and I had to apply some scoth tape on it. I only had to pass the cd check, then I took the CD out and played the game. With every day that crack was growing... Yet I managed to finish off the game before the disc crashed. Sad story. The moral is: i don't like starforce atall <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/stupid.gif" alt="" />

i just wanted to add that the game itself is great, and very stable, no crashes as of yet i can even alt-tab and back with no probs. But the whole starforce thing still irks me, i don't understand the point of it really copy protections seem to be a waste of time and money to me, especially this one, the trade off between defeating pirates for a short time and pissing off your fans and losing potential future sales doesn't seem to be a good one. So the only thing i can really think of, is that starforce itself has another purpose besides just copy protection and that is to test the publics reaction to having some of their rights violated as a customer and if starforce went over without to much trouble i bet you'd see the future versions of starforce or other copy protecions taking even more liberties and even phoning home, sounds a little crazy i'll admit but really i see it as a possiblity.

Question to the Larians about Starforce:

[color:"yellow"]Does this program check if a burn-program is on the drive, please? [/color]

If your FAQ answers this and I am unable to detect it, because these burn-programs have a different name definition, please, tell me which the correct one is <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shame.gif" alt="" />. Thank you in advance.
Kiya

I'm Afraid it does. It checks for Nero and Alcohol... So I'm told. Whether detecting these programs influences StarForce in some way, I'm unsure. I think it checks for virtual drives.

But now that all the StarForce shenanigans are public knowledge, anyone installing a game with it, deserves what they get <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

No, it does not. StarForce assured us that they are not checking for anything installed on the computer, except for their own drivers of course.

Nowadays, it's hard to find a new computer without a CD or DVD burner, and most of the time, you get Nero in bundle with it. What would be the point of checking the presence of Nero since 95% of the gamers have it ? And anyway, Nero cannot make a working copy of a StarForce protected CD. (by working copy I mean a copy allowing the game to start, installation doesn't care)

I think people say that StarForce checks for virtual drives because when they try to mount an image of a protected game, StarForce asks to use another drive. That's because StarForce wants to use the most compatible drive, the most likely to work well with the protection check. Emulated drives have lots of restrictions... This may as well occur with tho "real" CD drives, if StarForce believes one is better suited for the check than the other one, he'll ask the user to switch the CD.

So, StarForce doesn't work with images mounted on virtual drives, not because it detects the emulation program who created those virtual drives, but because these drives are not compatible. And you'll agree that this is the expected behavior from a protection system.

from one of the other Starforce threads (the second link was broken in the original post, too):



Is there any truth to this? Will Beyond divinity really be unplayable once Larian's publisher stops supporting it/ceases to exist? Or did the Starforce guys give you some kind of special protection removal patch to be released once updating for new Windows versions becomes more trouble than it's worth?

Contacted about this matter, StarForce told us they had an agreement with Microsoft to support StarForce protection systems on Windows XP Service Pack 2.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/exclamation.gif" alt="" /> IMPORTANT <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/exclamation.gif" alt="" />

The Windows XP Service Pack 2 [color:"red"]BETA[/color] is reported as being not totally compatible with StarForce, so be sure you use a [color:"red"]FINAL[/color] version of Windows XP Service Pack 2 if you encounter problems with the game.

I'm waiting for a crack (or a patch that removes the check) before I'll consider purchasing BD - there's no way I'm running a game where I have to keep putting in the CD every time I want to play. Given the increasing number of publishers that are deciding to reward their customers rather than treat them like potential thieves (Stardock with Galactic Civilizations, Epic with UT2004's latest patch, LucasArts with Jedi Knight) isn't it about time Larian started taking note?I couldn't agree more. I personally think whoever decided on this should be sat in front of a PC and made to swap CDs 5-10 times an hour all day just to replicate a gamers' experience...

The wait is over. StarForce has been reversed. To nothing.
Actually, it's quite easy - anyone can do it at home with basic PC knowledge. All You need is a CD image creator tool (such as Nero) and an emulator (such as Daemon tools) - and the StarForce cleaner provided by those pricks if You installed this crap before.
So much about the famous StarForce 3 protection. You pathetic bunch of loosers. What did You expect? Noone likes You, most - if not all - of the customers are against You. Wonder how much loss You caused to Larian studios and the end users as well... I wish they sued Your a** off... What stupid f**** You truly are. LMAO
Ladies and gents, You will need to search for the info how to do it by yourself as I don't want to make the StarForce makers' life any easier either. Just search the net, and You will find it sooner or later.
Mods are free to ban me - I said what I had to say. Free speech... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" />

Would it actually make you go away????

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" />

so just for those paranoid people out there. After I installed BD and ran the configuration the configuration tool DID in fact try and connect to the net.

The only reason I know this is because my firewall logged this application...

configtool MFC Application - version 1.0.0.3 - c:\games\Beyond Divinity\configtool.exe

...and then blocked it's a**

me he he.

great day
SD

ConfigTool is not protected with StarForce. We wrote this tool ourselves, and it doesn't make any network connection.

Which web site was aimed ? Could you provide us with your version of ConfigTool.exe ? We'd like to investigate : support@larian.com

It probably had nothing to do wiht the config tool, a lot of adware/spyware initialises whenever a program file (or any exe) gets run. If he looks in his firewall log, he will notice a file with a complete different size than what it should be, since the spyware added a couple of commands.

Downloading a program like (i love this one) Spybot Search and Destroy will hunt out and kill the culprit....

(and dont even think of telling me that it didnt find anything MS comes STANDARD with 9!!!!!!)

Hey Drealmer,

for sure, is it okay that zip and attatch my configtool.exe to support mail adress and just give reference to this post ?

Timestamp on it from what I can see is :

2004/03/16 02:11 AM

And according to Sygate the version is :
1.0.0.3

Will see if I can dig target adress out of my logs.


SD

Lady_Rain,

that might well be you know, initially when I installed firewall I killed loads of little spyware apps. Would not surprise me if any new ones managed to tag themselves onto my files.

Will send configtool to Larian anyway. But will go and see if I can find anything in my logs.
cheers,
SD

Hope you find those unwanted critters in your computer... if you need any help, shout. Keeping data safe and in safe working condition is what i do for a living... try that application i pasted the link to... its marvelous, and MUCH better than addaware and whatever else is on the market. That together with TRend-Micro's Pc Cillin (also with built in firewall)is a Excellent team. my computers are under constant internet "attack" with clients doing (whatever it is that they doing... after viewing 1 history file i DONT wanna know)....

(No offence meant against sygate, its a GREAT transparent proxy(with some nice features like using 2 different devices for sending and receiving - or was this feature analogX's feature? - not sure now the last time i used either of them was just over a year ago), but its firewall is not the most secure i have ever seen.)

On top of that, we are in the middle of all the universities in the city... so you can immagine what these computers go through.... they solid, never a problem, and so far they have never been hacked either <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> (hold fumbs)

Stormdemon : I got your mail containig configtool.exe. I checked it for viruses and trojans, nothing found. I ran it extensively with and the firewall never triggered. The tool is identical bit for bit to the original one. And finally, in the DLL dependency list, there's nothing about networking.

So I can really affirm : this configtool.exe would never access the network by itself.

The problem is related to something else... Maybe a trojan infected some Windows DLL called by configtool ? This would explain why the program name triggering the firewall is configtool.exe... Can't you find back which web site or IP was targetted ?

hey Drealmer,

thanks for following up on this. I ran Spybot : Search & Destroy as Lady_Rain suggested, and indeed found a few interesting things tracking me.... sobs !

Was digging through my firewall logs, only access I could see that was round about the time I installed the game and ran the configtools was outgoing messages blocked to Gator.

but anyway, must say i'm way impressed with your response times. nicely done. I'm still waiting (week and a half) on a responses from another game's official forum.... and that is just to get me registered...eish

great day,
SD

I am glad we all could help....

@ drealmer

well there is the answer... the notorious GAIN.GATOR was active

(i sometimes wonder what would happen if we create (or modify) a worm like msblast and name it gainblast, set it to attack the gain servers... would they THEN get the message that they are unwanted!?!?!?!!?

Hey Lynn! People still [nocando] ing about StarForks? And spoons?

There is no spoon, you should know it by now <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

If I might add something (perhaps not new) to this discussiong, my standing is this: Starforce is not a part of the game, so we should be informed that it is installed, but my major problem with this is that it is not removed from my system if I remove the game from my system. What are those drivers doing there when they are not needed by the game they were installed with?

I can get paranoid for a lot less I tell you! And I dont like it one bit.

Please have a look at this page for more information about the SF-drivers.

I have a collection of games for the PC that would probably make EB, Babbages and half a dozen OTHER computer game stores jealous! I would estimate that I have over 1000 current titles, ALL bought and paid for and still with the original disks and packaging.

One of the FIRST things that I do when I buy a new game (actually, BEFORE I buy the game...) is to go on line and search out a crack that will allow me to run the game without having to insert the CD all the time. A few years ago I purchased a Virtual Drive program to get around the copy protection in a few OTHER games (such as Virtual Pool 3). As soon as I get the game installed and running, I put the CD's away in the original boxes and store them in a safe place.

Let me say that I DETEST people who pirate computer software! Doing such things only drives up the prices for the REST of us. BUT I EQUALLY strongly dislike being FORCED to constantly insert and remove a CD in order to play a game.

I recently purchased Sacred (before discovering that it was "protected" by StarForce), and actually ENJOYED playing it without a cd for a while, until the update patch came out. THEN, when I updated the game, I was FORCED to use the CD to play. Also, the preformance of the game DROPPED with this change!!!

With regards to BD, I installed and played the demo for a couple of months before deciding to purchase the retail version of the game. I installed it, looked for a crack (couldn't find one...), and played a little with the CD in the drive. It just sat on my computer for a few weeks, and then tonite I tried it again. The ONLY thing that I could get was the Disk Detection Error!!! NOTHING had changed in my system (other than installing a few games). I tried using TM to remove any processes running in the background, but nothing worked. I even rebooted several times, disabvling various items from starting up on boot. But STILL I keep getting the DDError...

I have VOWED that I will NEVER AGAIN spend ONE PENNY on any game that has SF "protection" on it. It is just TOO FRUSTRATING, and games should NOT be frustrating!!! ...At least NOT until you get INTO them! LOL

I had planned on purchasing several copies to send to family and friends (I frequently do this...), but if possible I would be returning the copy that I purchased for myself!

Oh yeah, one other thing... I just wonder how many "damaged CD's" were returned to Larian??? I spoke to several people who got SO disgusted with the whole thing that they DELIBERATELY damaged their CD's, returned them to the store for replacement, and then returned the unopened REPALCEMENTS for a refund!!!

Way to go you guys! I don't normally condone such behaviour, but in THIS case I would have to sit and cheer for them!

Larian, PLEASE think of your customers in the future. Very few of us who use no-CD cracks, virtual drive programs, etc are looking to engage in piracy. PLEASE don't drive us away in your zeal to get at the wanna-be pirates!!!

About Sacred, you could check for an update to the virtual CD program, or look for a different one.

For BD, did you maybe mix up the CDs and use disk 1 rather than disk 2, or have both CDs in a drive? Probably not, but it could happen.

You could try updating the Starforce drivers, in case one of the other games cause a conflict.
Updating or removing StarForce drivers

If that doesn't help, in the error message (either 'disk detection' or 'no disk found'), click the 'Information' button, then when that finishes, click the 'View Report' button. Save the resulting text file somewhere, optionally zip it, and email it to Larian (support@larian.com) with a description of the problem. They can create a file the copy protection can use to check your system on startup, rather then the play CD.

Purchased Sacred had it cracked (no-cd) in about half an hour.. no biggie..
No daemen tools no emulators no nothin.. BUT I would like to say..
FOR THE LOVE A PETE!!!! STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT STAR FORCE ALREADY!!!!!
If your that pissy about freakin CD protections heres some advice..
wait till its been out a week.. Google variouse forums.. find out if it has StarForce..
THEN DON'T BUY IT!!!!!!!!
Face the facts.. not all but the majority of complaints are from people tryin to scam the game..
Hope ya don't buy HL2 ya might flat out go into cardiac arrest over that one..
Peace
Nilrem <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mage.gif" alt="" />

Thank you for sharing.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" /> HL2 can be bought cracked already.... this was available since 3 days after the official release....

And yeah... most people had an absolute fit about having to download a 6MB authorisation everytime you want to play the game.... on a 56k dialup, it takes you longer to get the authorisation, than what you can stay alive for....

I've read a few weeks ago that Starforce doen't work on Win xp 64 edition, tested by the German magazine " c't " .

I cannot find the article right now, but when, I'll quote it here.

Alrik.

Here is another link.

When i searched on the MS Beta site... Microsoft is aware of this... so i am sure that SF or MS will release a patch fixing this <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I don't know. I've read rumors that StarForce uses undocumented functions ... so it's rather a StarForce thing, I guess. Or MS makes something towards compatibility, especially with the content industry (for example publishrs) wanting protection for their media (like games).

I have been following up on this...

The fact that MS removed the ability to use "low level" drivers (for security reasons - a lot of worms exploit these and also spyware tends to use this), there will be a effort between MS and SF to either create code to enable low level drivers, or to create a driver that is accepted by MS.

Windows XP 64bit is currently not supported by StarForce.
After the official release of this operating system, this support will be implemented and a StarForce-patch will be released.

I haven't (and won't) be buying Beyond Divinity for this very reason (and I do *buy* all my games) - while there is a crack out now, it is awkward enough to implement that I would rather deny Larian my custom (and cash) as punishment for imposing this inconvenience.

However "suffering in silence" is not a good idea either. Publishers are quick to draw the wrong conclusions and will assume lost sales to be due to "warez" (i.e. the protection was not obnoxious enough), presentation (not enough swirly 3D bits) or star alignment. If we do not complain now, then it is quite possible that Divine Divinity 2 will demand your DNA for analysis on startup. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/disagree.gif" alt="" />


Those trying to "scam the game" will be hanging around on IRC, Usenet or warez forums, not posting on official ones where their IP address can be traced should the publisher decide to investigate. I would agree that HL2 is the most obnoxious example of a publisher disregarding their customers (who will be left with pretty drinks coasters should Valve's verification servers ever get shut off or discontinued). I won't touch it with a bargepole. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/disagree.gif" alt="" />

Not to turn this into a half life 2 debate or anything, but my brother had bought it back when it was released last year when no one actually knew what was involved it getting it to work. He's got no net connection.

I advised him to return it as a protest but he kept it anyway with the belief that he'll get a net connection in a few weeks. Never happened.

He's only now got the game to work just 3 days ago...I helped him take his computer to a friends, decrypted the game, and he put the no steam connection crack on it. He bought the game, but needed a crack to play it...

Ironically, the harder they make it for the people to play the game because of copy protection, the more sales they'll lose, and the more people will actually get a cracked copy. So it could all backfire.

Also not to mention that the package for the game should have had a sufficent warning on the pack rather than a tiny note about net connection in the requirements...and even then it didn't say MUST have one!

Value didn't give a toss it would seem, as they made the sales...

I've never had a problem with starforce myself, though I prefer not to use the CD's all the time, and starforce makes that difficult...so I'd be more hesitant in buying a starforce protected game.

While you need to connect to the Steam server at least once, AFAIK you should be able to save the password and play in offline mode without an internet connection.

How To Make Steam Offline Mode Work, from Steam's FAQ

I dont know if starforce is the culprit, but I do know that everytime I tried to play Beyond Divinity, my cd burner died on me and I had to re format the computer to make it work again. This happened three times. I also remember having trouble with Daemon tools while it was installed. It may have been a coincidence, but since then I have not installed anything with starforce, and there hasnt been any similar problems after that.

There has been a few games that I have wanted after this that have had starforce with them and that alone has made me put the games back in the shelves. If Divine Divinity 2, wich I am very much looking foreward to , use starforce, then I will not buy Divinity 2 either.

I prime examle I heard somehwere on developers that took this seriously, is one of the Unreal games that after a wave of angry emails from gamers about the copy protection system, they shipped the game anew without any protection at all. (I dont have any proof if this is true though, it was told to me on a similar forum)

And as many people has said before me: Copy protection harms the buyers more than the pirates. Cracks for games are made most often the same day its released, so for the average game downloader, copy protection have no effect what so ever.

This at least is my thoughts on the subject.

Yep, starforce is known to screw up CD-RW of CD/DVD combo drives... it sucks.

And as far as the shielding with the EULA agreement goes: people have it all wrong... It doesn't matter how much civil contracts you make, as soon as a crime is commited (i.e. harm to your hardware of your pc, due to software not mentioned on the package), the producer can be held liable...

It's not because you give a man permission to kill you, that he can do it without punishment...

I wonder when the first customer will be pissed off enough to sue the company, and then you'll see all lawyers scrambling like madmen...


Oh, and another question: is larian giving lifetime guarantee on this game? I am legally allowed to make a single copy of the game for self use and as a back up. What happens if my cd gets damaged? Can I just send it back to larian for a new copy?

I've actually come accross starforce before.... Superpower 2.

I am pondering aquiring an older comp without cd/dvd rws for the purpose of running these types of ill-planned games that require such atrocious protection software.

Then again, if Starforce would not use code that renders reading of blank discs [or cd writer operation] impossible, then I wouldnt have too much of a problem with it...

... Also, looking back at some of the questions asked, it appears that some have gone unanswered...

Does Larian have a pre starforce game and if so do they know the amount of sales a pre starforce game generated vs a game with starforce?

In my opinion, the numbers should tell the truth. If you sell 100 of a prestarforce game and only 20 true sales of a starforce protected game, what does that tell you?

Kinda simple really, code the game without starforce and you get more profit.

There are alot of gamers out there [inc. myself] who simply dont want to be bothered wasting time with starfarce, whether cleaning it up or re installing. Its too time consuming and frustrating. I'm sure that some of you were gamers at one point or another, so you should know the frustrations of switching cds and the time installations take.

There are other ways to copy protect the software, like the most used way is some sort of encryption that prevents reading by writer software on one disc without going as far as starforce does. those games are moderately successful too.

Just wanted to offer up an opinion.

[color:"orange"]Then again, if Starforce would not use code that renders reading of blank discs [or cd writer operation] impossible, then I wouldnt have too much of a problem with it...[/color]

I've had a CD-RW and DVD-RW drive installed in this computer (the second replaced the first), using Easy CD Creator and Nero respectively, and have not had any major problems with Starforce. I don't use the packet writing portion of either program, though.
After installing the ATA DVD-RW, Starforce decided it would no longer accept the BD play CD in the SCSI DVD-ROM drive, which is a little annoying, since the DVD-RW drive is louder and takes longer to spin up.

Larian can use the error report generated by Starforce to create a file that the copy protection can use to check your computer at startup, rather than the play CD, if it does not recognize and accept the drive or CD.


[color:"orange"]Does Larian have a pre starforce game[/color]

Divine Divinity used different copy protection. However, if there are significant differences between sales of the 2 games, it would be impossible to sort out the exact cause, since they also had different publishers, reviews, advertising, etc and were released with different games competing for shelf space and sales.

Sales of Beyond Divinity between different regions might be a little easier to compare, but the UK, North American and Australian publishers all went with Starforce.


Welcome to the forum. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

Starforce (and other CD-checks) will disable all SCSI CD/DVD-drives if an IDE drive is present. This is because virtual CD software emulates SCSI, so blocking SCSI drives is a more reliable method of countering them than trying to identify and blacklist individual programs. This disabling only occurs when an IDE drive is present to give games publishers' technical support a get-out clause: "Oh it's perfectly OK! You can just use your IDE drive!" and to avoid the legal problems that would occur with users who only have SCSI drives. If you disconnect your ATA drive, you should be able to use your DVD-ROM again.

It is pathetic that users should have to do this, but as long as snake-oil peddlers like Starforce can persuade guillible developers (Larian and others) that irritating their paying consumers, complicating their CD-production and paying for software drivers that no-one wants on their system is worth "protecting" against all those parrot-carrying, wooden-legged, argh-spouting pirates which apparently infest every corner of the Internet, then this nonsense will continue.

There is an extensive Starforce Petition thread on Fileforums and an Online Petition that people may wish to sign to register their dissatisfaction over this obnoxious software.

@Stargazer: The copy protection was forced on them by the publisher.
@Stargazer²: Also not a fan of Starforce (used to run xp 64bit)

Btw does any one know if BD will be playable with Windows Vista (thinking of going Vista bèta on my pc).

Oddly enough I can not find any reference in this Starforce FAQ that the Star force Virtual IDE protection Drivers:

1. Open up Ring 0 access to Ring 3 users on XP. (This basically allows any third party application, trojan, viri. Full super user access to your system as a level which is of higher control than your Anti Virus/ Anti Spy ware or Software Firewall.

2. Those of you that are aware of XP's DMA issue will also be aware that anything that interferes with the packet transfer during the reading or writing of a CD/DVD will cause XP to read this as an error. The results of which, each time this occurs XP steps down the DMA speed until it eventually reverts to 16 Bit access. Rendering the drive virtually unusable. Virtual Drives such as those used in Nero will trigger this if starforce is installed.Uninstalling the CD/DVD drivers and the IDE controllers from the Devive Manager and rebooting will normally cure this, however if star force is still present then on certain chipsets the device manager will not find your HDD or CD/DVD drives. Making it appear as if they have failed working. In some extreme circumstances mainly combo drives this stepping down can cause actual hardware failure.

3. The EULA does not cover malicious intent. Starforce are aware of the two previous issues yet have done very little to resolve them. Excluding trying to claim they do not exist.

I would point out that I am a developer with 25 years experience in the business. So when I make comments I make very sure I have fully researched what I am talking about.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" /> welcome to the forum

Thanks for that info... i dont think that most of us knew that...

Unfortunately there is not much we can do about that now... other than to make sure that the next game dont use starforce...

And after all the complaints and issues that Larian got... they are not likely to use starforce for a while.

Plz Larian! Don't use SF for DD2, all gaming forums i know have a thread complaining about starforce, I think it will cause seriously less sales. Just dont use a publisher wich forces you to use that couse that is just lame of them

I should warn you -- there was a website that tried running Splinter Cell 3, which is StarForce equipped, on Vista -- and a bunch of other games back in an article from May 30, 2006. The StarForce game DID NOT work on Vista: Beta 2.

StarForce is very driver-specific -- so, likely if we're going to get StarForce games to work on Vista, StarForce will have to update their drivers for Vista or Microsoft would have to do something w/ Vista to get SF-based games going. Chances are: I'd bet SF would have to update their drivers.

Some companies have gone the route of removing their SF-based drivers from their games -- such as Egosoft removed them for X2, yet now they are planning a patch for X3: Reunion that will remove them for later this year from X3.

I really hope that Larian would do the same and remove SF from their BD game in a patch, so my copy of BD can actually have a future and run on Vista, if I so choose to in the future...

For more info, look below on the problems SF has w/ Vista Beta 2:

Link 1 -- 1Up's news on StarForce games not working on Vista Beta 2:
Click here!

Link 2 -- ExtremeTech testing some games on Vista Beta 2:
Click here!!

SLOW SLOW SLOW
1. Average disc 'checking' takes 25 odd seconds, but around 1 in 4 times it takes 70 seconds, and around 1 in 6 start-ups give me enough time to make a cuppa and get back before failing. Strangely ejecting the disc solves this.:sleepey:

2. The location of the 'non-working' cancel button on the 'checking' dialog is over the 'Retry' button. Nice USE-case analysis work there, strangely in contrast to the rest of the product quality! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" /> Goes to show, the SF part was put on by the publisher.

I have posted this, simply because the 'game' loads faster than the 'checking' takes, making SF a non-brain part of the OOB experience that spoils an otherwise excellent game.

I came here hoping to find that I am finally allowed to play this game. StarForce will not invade my system. Is there any hope that this might still happen?

not really.... even the patches were developed to handle starforce.... if Larian takes starforce out again (ignoring the legal issues relating to that), there will be new bugs in the game and a lot of new beta testing needed.

Unfortunately its was a choice that doesnt suite everyone's likes, but it is a choice non the less that was made in the almost distant past... i am sure that Larian wont make that same mistake again.

I don't know about the legal issues regarding StarForce and all, but Egosoft recently released a patch for X3: Reunion just to remove the game from needing the CD period, even though the SF drivers will remain on your drive (unless you uninstall them yourself). The newest version of X3: Reunion is now 2.0.02, which also includes the free expansion content in it.

I should also note this -- EgoSoft will soon be releasing for retail stores X3: Reunion Version 2.0, which is the DVD Edition of X3: Reunion (w/ the free expansion content) without StarForce attached on the DVD.

More companies that decided to use that vicious SF protection should do what EgoSoft is doing w/ X3, in regards to dealing w/ SF Copyright Protection and all: eventually release a patch to remove the need of StarForce.

Now things get quite interesting.

After the ordeal w/ it being mentioned thatStarForce games had trouble running on Win Vista Beta 2, there was a patch released for StarForce drivers so their games could work on Win Vista Beta.

So, now I wonder if any of the Larians and/or any gamers that have tried running <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" /> on the new Win Vista (any of the retail editions) have got <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" /> going after installing these drivers for Win Vista (Beta).

i will try to load it early next week (tuesday 13/02/2007)... working nightshift till then, but i am sure i will get a chance to test it on tuesday.

i downloaded the patch now... at the same time i will run quicky through the game (just play certain saves) to see if the patch breaks anything.

if this works, it should also make bd playable on winxp - 64 bit edition... since that uses very similar driver handling as vista.

Working on it.... ran into a temporary dead-end... but hopefully there is a relatively easy work-around... just waiting for some feedback about possible work-arounds.

If we can get this working, i will post the installation guide and the step by step workaround for the small issue i ran into.

*holds thumbs*