Larian Studios
Hi,

My wife and I wrote a couple of reviews of the German version.

http://verenakyratzes.wordpress.com/2009/08/02/divinity-ii-ego-draconis/

http://www.jonas-kyratzes.net/?p=668

Hope this is interesting to someone.
Posted By: katar Re: Two English reviews of the German version - 04/08/09 11:33 AM
despite not being "official reviews", i'm always interested in the general publics opinion
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"Not the kind from Japan, with half-naked twelve year old girls called Simon as protagonists."


LOL!
Seems to go in-line with most of the german reviews so far. A good game, with some flaws that prevent him from being a super-mega-hit.

Hope that larian can make some patches before the international release with some sound changes on the games' flaws.
Originally Posted by Adomingues
Seems to go in-line with most of the german reviews so far. A good game, with some flaws that prevent him from being a super-mega-hit.

Hope that larian can make some patches before the international release with some sound changes on the games' flaws.


Yes, though I think that the flaws that we focus on are not actually the same as with some of the magazines (haven't read all the reviews, so I can't say). And we'd both give the game a considerably higher rating, if we were into that sort of thinking.
Both are well written and informative reviews. Thank you.
From all the reviews I've read, it seems like combat is the only real tarnish this game has. A few nit-pick here and there about various things, but not enough to make a sizable complaint about it.

I'm hoping that combat can be improved upon before we get the English version. Though I'm not sure if that is logically possible now.

BTW: it wasn't combat in Divinity: Sword of Lies that made me love the game so much, though combat in it was fun, except for some bosses that were too over powered (spider in bottom of Aleroth Dungeon). I'm still planning on buying Divinity 2 when it comes to the states.
Originally Posted by LightningLockey
From all the reviews I've read, it seems like combat is the only real tarnish this game has. A few nit-pick here and there about various things, but not enough to make a sizable complaint about it.

I'm hoping that combat can be improved upon before we get the English version. Though I'm not sure if that is logically possible now.

BTW: it wasn't combat in Divinity: Sword of Lies that made me love the game so much, though combat in it was fun, except for some bosses that were too over powered (spider in bottom of Aleroth Dungeon). I'm still planning on buying Divinity 2 when it comes to the states.



Indeed, targeting and combat mostly. A simple "tab targeting" would suffice to make it better imho, eh eh eh....


About the 2 reviews on the topic at hand, thanks for them, very refreshing to not having to understand google translator trying to read the german reviews wink
A small update from us: we finished the game, and my wife has written about her reaction to the ending and some overall flaws:

http://verenakyratzes.wordpress.com...to-give-this-game-a-positive-review-but/

(We do still like the game, though.)

I'm going to write a considerably longer article from a game designer's perspective one of these days, going into more analytical detail on what I thought didn't work and how it could (theoretically) be fixed. But that may well not be of interest to most of you, and my wife's article is both funnier and more to the point, so if you enjoyed the first one go ahead and read this.
Originally Posted by JonasKyratzes
A small update from us: we finished the game, and my wife has written about her reaction to the ending and some overall flaws:

http://verenakyratzes.wordpress.com...to-give-this-game-a-positive-review-but/

(We do still like the game, though.)

I'm going to write a considerably longer article from a game designer's perspective one of these days, going into more analytical detail on what I thought didn't work and how it could (theoretically) be fixed. But that may well not be of interest to most of you, and my wife's article is both funnier and more to the point, so if you enjoyed the first one go ahead and read this.


Dont know if you are aware (you probably are), but larian is releasing a major patch soon (tm), would be nice if you write something afterwards, if the patch corrects some of the things you dont find as good in the game.


Thanks again for the time invested in the reviews!
Originally Posted by Adomingues

Dont know if you are aware (you probably are), but larian is releasing a major patch soon (tm), would be nice if you write something afterwards, if the patch corrects some of the things you dont find as good in the game.


Thanks again for the time invested in the reviews!


We shall have a look when it comes out and provide an opinion. But really - the game is still quite good, and I think the anger or disappointment we felt was due to the fact that we were actually immersed. The gameplay criticisms are important because, well, they're valid, but that doesn't mean that the game is not worth buying.

I still prefer Divinity's fighting system to Oblivion's by a mile. Oblivion felt very cool at first, but once it gets to the point where every enemy takes a trillion hits to die... gragh!
I always felt Oblivion was very crappy in terms of combat. It was like a weaker version of Mount&Blade with less options. Morrowind's combat system was absolutely horrible, and Bethesda promised a much better one... but they changed details and kept the biggest problems it had.

Certainly nothing like, for instance, Gothic II.

I'm hoping for something to come out that is like a mixture of Prince of Persia: Sands of Time and Gothic II.

That would be an awesome combat system. The moves of prince of persia, both arms separately controlled, coupled with the style upgrades of Gothic II. *licks lips*
Originally Posted by swordscythe
I always felt Oblivion was very crappy in terms of combat. It was like a weaker version of Mount&Blade with less options. Morrowind's combat system was absolutely horrible, and Bethesda promised a much better one... but they changed details and kept the biggest problems it had.

Certainly nothing like, for instance, Gothic II.

I'm hoping for something to come out that is like a mixture of Prince of Persia: Sands of Time and Gothic II.

That would be an awesome combat system. The moves of prince of persia, both arms separately controlled, coupled with the style upgrades of Gothic II. *licks lips*


Ah, Gothic II... possibly the best RPG I have ever played. And a great combat system, too - frustrating at first, but so wonderful once you get the hang of it.

One of the most enjoyable combat systems I've ever experienced, by the way, was in Dark Messiah of Might and Magic, which is an incredibly underrated game. The combat there was so visceral, so physical... and often absolutely hilarious. There's nothing like being able to kick your enemies into some spikes, or down a cliff, while giggling maniacally. That game also had a great stealth system. If you're willing to put in the time to get used to the controls, it's totally worth playing.
Posted By: Kein Re: Two English reviews of the German version - 13/09/09 01:53 PM
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Because, you see, Ygerna wants to be resurrected. Damian wants Ygerna resurrected, although he doesn’t know he does.

What a b***it. From the start of the game - that was the whole Damian's plot. He acted like he doesn't (pretty obvious, because resurrecting means death for Damian since he inverted the Sould Forge spell; this, actually, a lie spread by Damian itself, I believe) because he wanted to make Dragon Knight (protagonist) and Zandalor do the job (the Damian itself wasn't the dragon descendant so he wasn't able to do some things) for him. As we can see in the end-cutscene he is not surprised (not even a little) that Ygrena has awoke, because he waited for it since his plan succeeded.
How in the hell these "reviewers" come to such incorrect conclusion - hard to imagine for me.
Posted By: Raze Re: Two English reviews of the German version - 13/09/09 09:28 PM

Could people please not talk about the end of the game in a forum where most people have not even played it yet?????


Any plot or quest specific information / discussion should be confined to the Help/Tips/Tricks forum.
Originally Posted by Kein

What a b***it. From the start of the game - that was the whole Damian's plot. He acted like he doesn't (pretty obvious, because resurrecting means death for Damian since he inverted the Sould Forge spell; this, actually, a lie spread by Damian itself, I believe) because he wanted to make Dragon Knight (protagonist) and Zandalor do the job (the Damian itself wasn't the dragon descendant so he wasn't able to do some things) for him. As we can see in the end-cutscene he is not surprised (not even a little) that Ygrena has awoke, because he waited for it since his plan succeeded.
How in the hell these "reviewers" come to such incorrect conclusion - hard to imagine for me.


I'm sorry, did you play the game before you went and started offending people you don't know on the internet? And did you play the same version of the game that we did, in a language you are capable of understanding? The game's dialogue EXPLICITLY STATES that he did not know anything and that he is surprised. In fact, the dialogue IN THE CUTSCENE YOU MENTION explicitly states it. This is not a matter of interpretation or of missing clues that point to the real plot - the text of the game specifically describes what has happened, and Damian's role in these events.
Posted By: Kein Re: Two English reviews of the German version - 19/09/09 07:49 AM

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I'm sorry, did you play the game before you went and started offending people you don't know on the internet?

If you have found an offending part in my words - congratulation, because I didn't put a piece in that. But oh well.., I'm sorry, really, if I did offend you.
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and that he is surprised.

Yes, he was surprised that it wasn't he who resurrected her, that's all. Yes, he didn't know that the main goal of Zandalor and protagonist is to resurrect Ygerna, not to destroy her soul, but... read below ->
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The game's dialogue EXPLICITLY STATES that he did not know anything

What he didn't know? He didn't know that he wants to resurrect Ygerna? He didn't know that he asked the "old lizard" (as he calls the Patriarch) to open Hall of Echoes for him? What else he didn't know, tell me.

Here is the original quotes from the end scene with Divine One:
No, Dragon Knight, Ygrena's life is Damian's invincibility as I learned from my accursed son himself. They have been questing for the same outcome from within the Hall of Echoes and from without.
and
Ygrena was the first to triumph.
"...AS I LEARNED FROM MY ACCURSED SON HIMSELF..."
"...YGRENA WAS THE FIRST..."
(But ofc, you're still saying he didn't know about that too - fine, you won, lol)

So, as you said: "This is not a matter of interpretation or of missing clues that point to the real plot - the text of the game specifically describes what has happened, and Damian's role in these events."
^^- Completely correct, re-read your own words :P
In what way does anything you just posted contradict what we said, or somehow prove correct your criticsm of our reviews? The question was not whether Damian would like to resurrect Ygerna or not. Of course he would - but he failed at it, and she didn't. And he didn't know that she was acting through the player character.

You wrote:
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because he wanted to make Dragon Knight (protagonist) and Zandalor do the job (the Damian itself wasn't the dragon descendant so he wasn't able to do some things) for him.

But before you wrote:
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Yes, he didn't know that the main goal of Zandalor and protagonist is to resurrect Ygerna, not to destroy her soul


So what exactly is going on here? Because the game pretty explicitly states that both Ygerna and Damian were trying to achieve the same thing, but Damian failed where Ygerna didn't. Because he had no idea what she was doing. He wasn't using Zandalor and the player character, because he didn't know they were being used by his girlfriend. That's why he is surprised at the end of the game.

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As we can see in the end-cutscene he is not surprised (not even a little) that Ygrena has awoke, because he waited for it since his plan succeeded.

And yet again... yes he is surprised, because it quite specifically wasn't his plan, it was hers, and they couldn't communicate. He had no idea what was going on.

So what's your point? I'm starting to think that you've simply stumbled over the simple fact that when my wife wrote that "Ygerna wants to be resurrected. Damian wants Ygerna resurrected, although he doesn’t know he does." she was simply being sarcastic about Damian's ineptness and the fact that he doesn't realize what the player character's actions would actually cause.
Posted By: Kein Re: Two English reviews of the German version - 19/09/09 08:07 PM

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my wife wrote that "Ygerna wants to be resurrected. Damian wants Ygerna resurrected, although he doesn’t know he does." she was simply being sarcastic about Damian's ineptness and the fact that he doesn't realize what the player character's actions would actually cause.

Nice explanation but what in the hell does it changes if it's a sarcasm? Some kinda like an excuse for such words or what?
Seriously, the statement like "Damian wants Ygerna resurrected, although he doesn’t know he does." made me lol. He does, he want and it is pretty clear, the game plot (via dialogs/books/cutscenes) DIRECTLY says that. I failed to see a reason for a sarcasm here, actually, there is NONE at all.

If you're going to criticize a game plot you'd better to understand it. Otherwise, if you dislike it or don't get it - doesn't mean the plot is bad (but yeah, D2 plot line is no so good tbh).

Just better to think uber9k times before to call your opinion a review :P
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Nice explanation but what in the hell does it changes if it's a sarcasm? Some kinda like an excuse for such words or what?

Do you understand the meaning of sarcasm?

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Seriously, the statement like "Damian wants Ygerna resurrected, although he doesn’t know he does." made me lol. He does, he want and it is pretty clear, the game plot (via dialogs/books/cutscenes) DIRECTLY says that. I failed to see a reason for a sarcasm here, actually, there is NONE at all.

And again, do you understand the concept of sarcasm? The review did not say that he does not want to resurrect Ygerna. It simply made sarcastic reference to Damian's lack of understanding as to what is actually going on.

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If you're going to criticize a game plot you'd better to understand it. Otherwise, if you dislike it or don't get it - doesn't mean the plot is bad (but yeah, D2 plot line is no so good tbh).

If you're going to criticize a review you'd better understand it. Otherwise, if you don't like it or don't get it, that doesn't mean the review is bad, only that your language or comprehension skills are lacking.

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Just better to think uber9k times before to call your opinion a review :P

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review
–noun
1. a critical article or report, as in a periodical, on a book, play, recital, or the like; critique; evaluation.

A detailed critique or evaluation (thus, the writer's opinion) is by definition a review. Stop trying to offend us by saying that what we wrote does not constitute a review; that is simply absurd. If you find the phrasing of one sarcastic remark to be unfortunate, fine, but that is no reason to belittle the reasoned opinion of others. We played the game carefully and paid attention to plot and dialogue; these texts represent our evaluation of the game and its story.
Posted By: Kein Re: Two English reviews of the German version - 20/09/09 08:29 AM

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Do you understand the meaning of sarcasm?

Yes? Now what? It magically changes something? No.
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And again, do you understand the concept of sarcasm? The review did not say that he does not want to resurrect Ygerna. It simply made sarcastic reference to Damian's lack of understanding as to what is actually going on.

Yes, but the problem is... he is NOT. If he wasn't successful with his plan first - doesn't mean he don't understand what he is doing.
Otherwise (as your point), we have another "stupid evil Sauron" here.
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If you're going to criticize a review you'd better understand it. Otherwise, if you don't like it or don't get it, that doesn't mean the review is bad, only that your language or comprehension skills are lacking.

Sorry, but I didn't. I didn't criticize a review, because I see no review here. >_>
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We played the game carefully and paid attention to plot and dialogue; these texts represent our evaluation of the game and its story.

Indeed, but you somehow managed to ignore some.
This is an absurd discussion, and I will not continue it. I'm glad the reviews were interesting and helpful to others; I don't need to waste my time defending them from someone who is incapable of understanding them or the game they refer to, either willfully or due to a lack of language skills.
Actually, one last thing: I just rewatched the final video. Here is the important dialogue:

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Damian: Ich habe unaufhörlich darum gekämpft, dich dem Tode zu entreißen. Und nun bist du hier, lebendig und frei, ohne meine Hilfe! Wie nur?
Ygerna: Ich habe einen Lakei ausgebildet. Das kleine Tier hat sich als ungemein treue Seele herausgestellt. Aber das erzähl ich dir später.

Translation:
Damian: I fought incessantly to rescue you from death. And now you are here, alive and free, without my help! How?
Ygerna: I trained a henchman. The little animal turned out to be an incredibly loyal soul. But I'll tell you about that later.


Both Damian's voice and his dialogue clearly express a great deal of surprise at Ygerna being back, and also specifically state that he doesn't know how it happened.
Posted By: Kein Re: Two English reviews of the German version - 20/09/09 03:27 PM
You can use "Edit" button to add a new text into already posted message.


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Actually, one last thing: I just rewatched the final video. Here is the important dialogue:
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Damian: Ich habe unaufhörlich darum gekämpft, dich dem Tode zu entreißen. Und nun bist du hier, lebendig und frei, ohne meine Hilfe! Wie nur?
Ygerna: Ich habe einen Lakei ausgebildet. Das kleine Tier hat sich als ungemein treue Seele herausgestellt. Aber das erzähl ich dir später.

Translation:
Damian: I fought incessantly to rescue you from death. And now you are here, alive and free, without my help! How?
Ygerna: I trained a henchman. The little animal turned out to be an incredibly loyal soul. But I'll tell you about that later.
Both Damian's voice and his dialogue clearly express a great deal of surprise at Ygerna being back, and also specifically state that he doesn't know how it happened.


If you didn't notice - I posted a quote from the game too, just few posts ago:
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What he didn't know? He didn't know that he wants to resurrect Ygerna? He didn't know that he asked the "old lizard" (as he calls the Patriarch) to open Hall of Echoes for him? What else he didn't know, tell me.

Here is the original quotes from the end scene with Divine One:
No, Dragon Knight, Ygrena's life is Damian's invincibility as I learned from my accursed son himself. THEY HAVE BEEN QUESTING FOR THE SAME OUTCOME FROM WITHIN THE HALL OF ECHOES AND FROM WITHOUT.
and
Ygrena was the first to triumph.
(But ofc, you're still saying he didn't know about that too - fine, you won, lol)


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I don't need to waste my time defending them from someone who is incapable of understanding them or the game they refer to, either willfully or due to a lack of language skills.

Okay. Let's stop here due to my language skills. You won.
You did not post the same bit of dialogue, you know. What you posted does not contradict what I said; it merely states that both characters were trying to achieve the same goal, i.e. reuniting Damian and Ygerna. It does not say they were trying to achieve it the same way. The quote I posted shows that Damian had no understanding of Ygerna's plan, and did not realize what was going on. That's why he is surprised when she comes back from the dead.
Posted By: Kein Re: Two English reviews of the German version - 20/09/09 05:11 PM
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It does not say they were trying to achieve it the same way.

Neither am I :P Damian get access to Hall of Echoes gate with protagonist's help but that doesn't mean he planned to resurrect Ygerna as Zandalor/hero did.
Originally Posted by JonasKyratzes
This is an absurd discussion, and I will not continue it. I'm glad the reviews were interesting and helpful to others; I don't need to waste my time defending them from someone who is incapable of understanding them or the game they refer to, either willfully or due to a lack of language skills.


Dont let the trolls get to you, man. All forums of all games are filled with all kind of people, a lot of them can't realy grasp the idea that they might be wrong or there could be a lot of tones of grey besides black and white.


I for one liked your review a lot. Its good to have a proper balance between major review sites and more individual and personal reviews like yours (and your wife). Its up to the reader to filter what information we need to fill the blanks in our expectations.

Thanks again for the reviews and your work on them btw.
Originally Posted by KnightPT
Originally Posted by JonasKyratzes
This is an absurd discussion, and I will not continue it. I'm glad the reviews were interesting and helpful to others; I don't need to waste my time defending them from someone who is incapable of understanding them or the game they refer to, either willfully or due to a lack of language skills.


Dont let the trolls get to you, man. All forums of all games are filled with all kind of people, a lot of them can't realy grasp the idea that they might be wrong or there could be a lot of tones of grey besides black and white.


I for one liked your review a lot. Its good to have a proper balance between major review sites and more individual and personal reviews like yours (and your wife). Its up to the reader to filter what information we need to fill the blanks in our expectations.

Thanks again for the reviews and your work on them btw.


Thanks for the kind words, and you're absolutely right. This kind of thing is the reason I usually don't hang around forums; I take what I do seriously, and tend to try to defend my point of view in situations when it's really just a waste of time. I should put a sticker above my screen that says "Don't feed the trolls!"
Posted By: Kein Re: Two English reviews of the German version - 21/09/09 10:46 AM
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[...]A LOT OF THEM CAN'T REALY GRASP THE IDEA THAT THEY MIGHT BE WRONG[...]

You are completely correct, I second that :P
Some people think they just can't be wrong >_>
Originally Posted by Kein
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[...]A LOT OF THEM CAN'T REALY GRASP THE IDEA THAT THEY MIGHT BE WRONG[...]

You are completely correct, I second that :P
Some people think they just can't be wrong >_>


Right...OR WRONG...let it go man, geez.
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