Larian Studios
Posted By: FLUXINATOR do NOT sell list? - 01/08/09 06:03 PM
are there some items i am not supposed to sell? for example would it be ok to sell ores but not the gem stones? are some herbs useless for certain character types? are some books worth holding onto?

im level 13 and am starting to think i am going to have to start over or be gimped because i have sold so much stuff, and a familiar npc told me i need all 4 items of a certain thing (not trying to spoil) which i think i may have already sold 1 of.

thanks for any feedback.

hopefully by the time this game hits the states it will be polished completely (would hate to see it be another sacred 2), no game has ever launched in europe first and then gone on to become a blockbuster success..make this the first.
Posted By: Duno Re: do NOT sell list? - 01/08/09 06:29 PM
i'm german so please forgive me my english 'skills' =P

I was worried a lot too which items to sell and which not but you can't do so much wrong and complete the game even if you sell all your items before you get your dragon tower.
you have your own runners who get the materials (herbs,ore,gems) you want, once you own the dragon tower. but you should keep malachite gems if you have some (the malachite ore is more or less useless)

i don't want to spoil anything but you may need a healing potion, an apple, a beer and a rope sometime in the game wink
Posted By: FLUXINATOR Re: do NOT sell list? - 01/08/09 06:36 PM
many thanks!

i kept looking around for a chest to stash my things in (habit), then noticed that i couldnt even temporarily drop them on the ground and got all paranoid after a chest vanished after i 1/2 looted it because i was full.

i miss my cave full of chests.

im guessing most enchants are not really a good idea to sell too since they seem mostly randomly generated.

Posted By: Duno Re: do NOT sell list? - 01/08/09 06:41 PM
Originally Posted by FLUXINATOR
i miss my cave full of chests.


go and get your dragon tower to get a surprise... ^^
Posted By: sn00p Re: do NOT sell list? - 01/08/09 07:00 PM
Well you can always send your items to Battle Tower ( Ofc only after you get it. )

I don't see a specified reason to keep some items.
Posted By: swordscythe Re: do NOT sell list? - 01/08/09 07:53 PM
Originally Posted by FLUXINATOR


hopefully by the time this game hits the states it will be polished completely (would hate to see it be another sacred 2), no game has ever launched in europe first and then gone on to become a blockbuster success..make this the first.
.. The Witcher?
Posted By: Ixal Re: do NOT sell list? - 01/08/09 08:12 PM
The only thing you really should not sell (besides skill books and other obvious useful stuff) are malachite gems (Malachitedelsteine). While they are worth 2000 gold each they are also needed for the most powerful enchantments in the game (and a quest) and quite rare.
Posted By: FLUXINATOR Re: do NOT sell list? - 01/08/09 08:16 PM
Originally Posted by swordscythe
Originally Posted by FLUXINATOR


hopefully by the time this game hits the states it will be polished completely (would hate to see it be another sacred 2), no game has ever launched in europe first and then gone on to become a blockbuster success..make this the first.
.. The Witcher?


the witcher didnt sell that many copies really, 1.2 mil is not that high a number....and they sold it 3 times so you would have to count each box separately (normal/ce+enhanced) which they didnt. 1 mil plus is kinda a good number....but not when you re-release a game a year later with nominal added content.

launching europe exclusive is kind of a suicide move really, especially when you consider translating to the europe languages means you already translated to all american (north and south) languages anyways, better to just go global.

but i digress, i must get back to that tower so i can get all that storage going on.
Posted By: Ixal Re: do NOT sell list? - 01/08/09 08:27 PM
Thea reason european releases don't do that well overall is that the US is still a big market and has a much different taste in games than europe. When you really want to succeed you need to make console shooters. Thats what sells in the US (besides football games and The Sims).
Action (and pure) RPGs are a niche market which will never sell in high volume compared to shooters.
Also, if I am not misinformed, Divinity 2 is currently only availiable in German, so its not "already translated".
Posted By: swordscythe Re: do NOT sell list? - 01/08/09 08:37 PM
Originally Posted by FLUXINATOR

the witcher didnt sell that many copies really, 1.2 mil is not that high a number....and they sold it 3 times so you would have to count each box separately (normal/ce+enhanced) which they didnt. 1 mil plus is kinda a good number....but not when you re-release a game a year later with nominal added content.

launching europe exclusive is kind of a suicide move really, especially when you consider translating to the europe languages means you already translated to all american (north and south) languages anyways, better to just go global.

but i digress, i must get back to that tower so i can get all that storage going on.

Where are you getting those assumptions?

CD Projekt Red made themselves a force to be reckoned with, with the Witcher. Any title that sells over one million copies, from a company as small as that one, is definitely a huge blockbuster. I'm sure Larian would be happy with a number like that. I dont know any figures on DivDiv, but I'm sure that was Larian's biggest success so far, and also first released in germany.

If you're talking Oblivion or NWN2, you're talking major backing and major developer... for a smaller developer, figures like theirs are nigh impossible to attain. The original NWN got to maybe 3 million? from a game that boasted such innovation and possibilities, got such fantastic reviews, and was made by the biggest RPG developer out there... After 6 years and loads of premium mods and expansions, they were up to 3 million.

And I am thinking the reason they released first in Europe is not because the English dialogue isn't ready yet. I've read that Divine Divinity was finished in English, translated to German and released first in Germany. So that's not really the problem.
Posted By: FLUXINATOR Re: do NOT sell list? - 01/08/09 09:17 PM
Originally Posted by swordscythe
Originally Posted by FLUXINATOR

the witcher didnt sell that many copies really, 1.2 mil is not that high a number....and they sold it 3 times so you would have to count each box separately (normal/ce+enhanced) which they didnt. 1 mil plus is kinda a good number....but not when you re-release a game a year later with nominal added content.

launching europe exclusive is kind of a suicide move really, especially when you consider translating to the europe languages means you already translated to all american (north and south) languages anyways, better to just go global.

but i digress, i must get back to that tower so i can get all that storage going on.

Where are you getting those assumptions?

CD Projekt Red made themselves a force to be reckoned with, with the Witcher. Any title that sells over one million copies, from a company as small as that one, is definitely a huge blockbuster. I'm sure Larian would be happy with a number like that. I dont know any figures on DivDiv, but I'm sure that was Larian's biggest success so far, and also first released in germany.

If you're talking Oblivion or NWN2, you're talking major backing and major developer... for a smaller developer, figures like theirs are nigh impossible to attain. The original NWN got to maybe 3 million? from a game that boasted such innovation and possibilities, got such fantastic reviews, and was made by the biggest RPG developer out there... After 6 years and loads of premium mods and expansions, they were up to 3 million.

And I am thinking the reason they released first in Europe is not because the English dialogue isn't ready yet. I've read that Divine Divinity was finished in English, translated to German and released first in Germany. So that's not really the problem.


i guess the word "blockbuster" is being ignored here. and yes morrowind/oblivion/NWN (but not 2, lets not pretend) definitely apply. bethesda was not a huge studio when they made morrowind either, nor was bioware when they made baulders gate. this is a really really nice game (and yes i am playing it in english), but somehow i can see it landing on our shores with a thud for whatever reason (distribution, advertising, bugs?). it WONT be because rpg's are a niche market though...not when WOW has 11 mil subs and games like oblivion have proven they can sell. myst sold 6 mil and it sucked! look at a list of top selling pc games historically and you will see alot of games that touch on rpg elements, MANY of them clocking over 3 mil. copies. some of them did it over 10 years ago too, when there wasnt NEARLY the PC saturation there is now.

you can pretend the witcher is some sort of singularity (i didnt like it enough to play through it honestly...even with boobies...that im sure sold more than a "handfull" of copies), but there are so many games over 2 mil that ARE made by tiny companies that it is kind of an insult to say you "need" huge teams and big backing to have a game succeed because most of the companies got huge AFTER making a blockbuster game. half-life sold 9.3 million copies i mean cmon.
Posted By: Red Avatar Re: do NOT sell list? - 02/08/09 12:25 AM
You're comparing apples with eggs Fluxinator.

The D&D system is most popular in the US because that's probably the only country where it really broke through as the "pen & paper" game. Baldur's Gate, NWN, Planescape, etc. all use the D&D system and you should not underestimate the sales that will go towards these old D&D fans.

Witcher, on the other hand, wasn't based on a Pen & Paper format. It didn't have a big developer and neither did the publisher advertise it properly. It was a Euro-RPG (like Gothic, Divinity 2, etc.).

And comparing it to Half-Life? Ouch. There's a dozen reasons why you shouldn't:
- Half-Life is a FPS
- FPS appeal to the US market
- Half-Life was immensely hyped before & after release
- the 6 million include all sales from the Generations pack which mainly sold due to Counter Strike
- you were forced to buy the game for it to work on Steam
- they re-released HL a dozen times with different games in the pack
etc.

The main problem with games, is the lack of publicity for the more niche ones, that's how it works. Dragon Age looks to be a typical console RPG with the typical flaws, yet it's getting tons of hype. Mass Effect was flawed in so many ways yet it sold loads. The game really is about hype.
Posted By: FLUXINATOR Re: do NOT sell list? - 02/08/09 03:31 AM
i only pointed out half life because it was not developed by ea or any other huge game factory (though some would argue that it has rpg plot elements) but pulled down a huge number AGES AGO.

i agree that is is mostly about hype (and honestly bioware lost its shine quite a while ago) but apparently if you want to make tons of money from a game you need to aim for north america or in some cases japan regardless of what kind of game it is.

i dont know why so many americans love the fps's, personally i only play unreal, everything else is either sissified or loaded with cheaters but alot of fps games dont sell that many copies either (too many fish in the pond maybe). it isnt like fps games are prone to breaking the 5 mil mark or anything like that, they probably just make enough advertisements to make it seem like they are.


on a side note: everything jo wood studios has done except gothic 2 has been bug riddled trash, now whos comparing apples to eggs? im talking about games that have been successful because they were well made and you mention gothic.

i think any game can sell 1 million copies on hype alone.
Posted By: v1ctor Re: do NOT sell list? - 02/08/09 10:20 AM
Originally Posted by FLUXINATOR
...no game has ever launched in europe first and then gone on to become a blockbuster success..make this the first.
.. nonsense. nuff said.

Originally Posted by FLUXINATOR
the witcher didnt sell that many copies really, 1.2 mil is not that high a number...
1.2 mil is a great success especially for a PC game.

Originally Posted by FLUXINATOR
launching europe exclusive is kind of a suicide move really, especially when you consider translating to the europe languages means you already translated to all american (north and south) languages anyways, better to just go global.
you're terribly wrong. I don't know why some americans think NA>everything else considering germany alone makes up 42% of the entire pc market.

Originally Posted by FLUXINATOR
...if you want to make tons of money from a game you need to aim for north america or in some cases japan regardless of what kind of game it is...it isnt like fps games are prone to breaking the 5 mil mark or anything like that, they probably just make enough advertisements to make it seem like they are...
if you wanna sell more than 1mil copies, you need to aim for the 360 and ps3.

Originally Posted by FLUXINATOR
on a side note: everything jo wood studios has done except gothic 2 has been bug riddled trash, now whos comparing apples to eggs? im talking about games that have been successful because they were well made and you mention gothic.
many consider the gothic series to be one of the best rpg-series ever. yeah, gothic 3 had its fair share of bugs and came out unfinished but the last community patch (nearly 1gig, 2years after release) clearly showed how many fans it has worldwide. Not to speak of the amazing/outstanding soundtrack and worlddesign the game has.
Posted By: FLUXINATOR Re: do NOT sell list? - 02/08/09 12:42 PM
Originally Posted by v1ctor
Originally Posted by FLUXINATOR
...no game has ever launched in europe first and then gone on to become a blockbuster success..make this the first.
.. nonsense. nuff said.

Originally Posted by FLUXINATOR
the witcher didnt sell that many copies really, 1.2 mil is not that high a number...
1.2 mil is a great success especially for a PC game.

Originally Posted by FLUXINATOR
launching europe exclusive is kind of a suicide move really, especially when you consider translating to the europe languages means you already translated to all american (north and south) languages anyways, better to just go global.
you're terribly wrong. I don't know why some americans think NA>everything else considering germany alone makes up 42% of the entire pc market.

Originally Posted by FLUXINATOR
...if you want to make tons of money from a game you need to aim for north america or in some cases japan regardless of what kind of game it is...it isnt like fps games are prone to breaking the 5 mil mark or anything like that, they probably just make enough advertisements to make it seem like they are...
if you wanna sell more than 1mil copies, you need to aim for the 360 and ps3.

Originally Posted by FLUXINATOR
on a side note: everything jo wood studios has done except gothic 2 has been bug riddled trash, now whos comparing apples to eggs? im talking about games that have been successful because they were well made and you mention gothic.
many consider the gothic series to be one of the best rpg-series ever. yeah, gothic 3 had its fair share of bugs and came out unfinished but the last community patch (nearly 1gig, 2years after release) clearly showed how many fans it has worldwide. Not to speak of the amazing/outstanding soundtrack and worlddesign the game has.


way to say what you are thinking, but you have provided NOTHING to substantiate anything you said.

here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_PC_video_games
(alot of games arent even on that list 1 word: bethesda.)

1 mil is NOT that big a deal, it definitely does not equate to a blockbuster.

i want you to prove germany makes up that much of the pc market (so grossly overstated it isnt even funny), also even with that patch gothic 3 is a buggy turd..its a pretty well known fact that some of the bugs just are not fixable, but hey hyperbole till your heart's content.

this thread got derailed before it even left the station, before i just stop looking at it i feel i should point out there is a certain girls necklace that should not be sold. (dont want to spoil it)
Posted By: v1ctor Re: do NOT sell list? - 02/08/09 01:08 PM
Originally Posted by FLUXINATOR
here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_PC_video_games
(alot of games arent even on that list 1 word: bethesda.) 1 mil is NOT that big a deal, it definitely does not equate to a blockbuster.
it's a list of the best selling PC games. There are many games that didn't sell millions of copies and were still considered successful.

Originally Posted by FLUXINATOR
i want you to prove germany makes up that much of the pc market (so grossly overstated it isnt even funny)
my statement is neither overstated nor funny, but your reaction shows you're either ignorant or been living under a rock. You could have googled this yourself but let me help you: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/07/20/develop-09-is-digital-distribution-the-pc-saviour/ Keep in mind, this only represents the european market. NA will always be a huge, but not the only viable market.

Originally Posted by FLUXINATOR
...also even with that patch gothic 3 is a buggy turd..its a pretty well known fact that some of the bugs just are not fixable, but hey hyperbole till your heart's content...
I didn't state it's completely bugfree. The Ritter des 12. Feuerkelchs have worked very hard over an extensive period of time to deliver on this patch. The results are awesome, even though some bugs will propably never be fixed since there are substantial issues with the engine itself.
Posted By: swordscythe Re: do NOT sell list? - 03/08/09 03:55 PM
1. As a great detractor of Gothic III, I feel I must say that the game's potential is easy to see. It was screwed, probably partly because of the whole JoWood dispute, and you can obviously see that the devs really didn't get to finish it... But barring the bugs, imbalance and the whole being unfinished bit, Gothic III had the possibility to be one of the best CRPG's ever. And Gothic II is. I haven't played it for a long time, but now that you mention this community patch, I guess I'll have to check that out for myself.

2. I don't know if you noticed, but on that "best-selling games list" The Witcher is the first non-multiplayer RPG on there. Having that and being on the list of best-selling games ever, I'd consider that blockbuster-material.

3. You gotta be honest; if you don't like the Witcher, then you don't like RPGs with content. I know all the flaws the Witcher has, and even so it's just (perhaps with Drakensang for the party-based players) the best roleplaying game to come out in recent years (excluding of course D2)

4. As for Bethesda not being a huge studio when they made Morrowind: perhaps not huge, but they were big. Daggerfall generated a large fan base, and Bethesda put all their bets on Morrowind, and successfully. It was a good game, much better than Oblivion. Oblivion sold all its copies on hype alone. Give Patrick Stewart the role of Zandalor and friggin' Johnny Depp or something for Damian, and you'll generate a lot more interest in the U.S. But do we really want companies to sacrifice their integrity and loads of content to use that money for some big names in the voice acting? Divinity 2 has great voice acting without big names, and the game is much better than Oblivion in every single department. Yes, even visuals.

5. Every one of us wants Ego Draconis to make it big everywhere, and sell as many copies as possible. Trust that Larian is doing everything in their power to make that happen, it's their livelyhood at stake, obviously. I will agree that it is simply not getting enough publicity to sell as many copies as Dragon Age will, but there's nothing any of us can do about that. I mean Dragon Age won't be out till october and I'm seeing tv commercials on it already. The real dragon flies under the radar, even in its own country. It will have to sell like The Witcher did; or Baldur's Gate 1 did. Not on publicity, but on innovation and sheer quality, over the course of many years, making Larian a household name and hyping everyone for their next game. It will, in part, depend on luck, if ED becomes an out-of-nowhere blockbuster or a hidden gem. But both those things have something in common: Quality with capital Q. And that's more important to us here than any sales figure.
Posted By: FLUXINATOR Re: do NOT sell list? - 06/08/09 01:33 AM
Originally Posted by swordscythe


2. I don't know if you noticed, but on that "best-selling games list" The Witcher is the first non-multiplayer RPG on there. Having that and being on the list of best-selling games ever, I'd consider that blockbuster-material.



you can look at it like that....but then again if you add enough conditions it quickly becomes the best selling game ever (made in a green building outside the united states by a company with no A in the name by a team with less than 6 females working on it).. see what i mean? nwn, diablo, etc and etc all have single player modes too, you cant just say they sold because of multiplayer and are therefore invalid...definitely not baulders gate.

v1ctor: rockpapershotgun is not a credible source.. and again adding enough conditions germany becomes responsible for consumption of 100% of all pc hardware and software (in german countries). just europe.... cause asia is still rocking 2 cans and a string.
Posted By: Raze Re: do NOT sell list? - 06/08/09 03:52 AM

It is not about adding conditions (especially arbitrary ones). If you wish to discuss what success means for a single player RPG, it only makes sense to consider other single player RPGs. There is some overlap in fanbase between single and multiplayer games, but single player RPGs are more of a niche market.

Anyway, hopefully D2:ED will lead the pack of recent/upcoming RPGs in sales, as the hype from Dragon Age adds to D2:ED specific marketing, from the inevitable comparisons (virtually all of which would of course be favourable).
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