Larian Studios
Hi,

I pre-ordered Dragon Knight Saga for PC from Game.co.uk about a month ago. At the time their website showed a release date of 26th November 2010. I waited until the 26th for any nws from them about my pre-order being processed, but I never received anything so I phoned them to try and find out what was happening. They weren't too sure but told me they'd look into it and email me to let me know what was happening. Today I received the following email from Game.co.uk:

Quote
Dear Customer,

Thank you for your order.
Unfortunately, this product is no longer being stocked and we will therefore be unable to fulfil your order, which has now been cancelled. No money has been taken from your account for this item.
Please accept our apologies for any disappointment and inconvenience this may have caused.


I've searched on Game.co.uk, Amazon.co.uk and Play.com, they each list the X360 version as available, but nothing for the PC version! Does anyone actually know what the heck is going on? Is the PC version getting a release in the UK? If so, when?

Larian are certainly NOT doing themselves any good with staggered release dates for each version and different release dates for different countries! I suspect that if Larian actually got themselves organized with release dates their games may be more successfull worldwide. All this uncertainty just means that players who may have purchased the game just give up waiting and move on to other games.
its available digitally, i have it on steam but unfortunately this is all to familiar a tale with retail RPGs on PC for us Brits the last couple of months.

Arcania, Two Worlds 2 and now this all due for UK release then with ZERO warning or reasoning they just don't come out. Last i heard the other two are due around March (though i got arcania on steam and two worlds 2 from Amazon.de) but i don't get it!

I know that Retail is being taken over by digital distribution but why delay releasing retail?! Crazy
Originally Posted by apoc_reg
its available digitally, i have it on steam but unfortunately this is all to familiar a tale with retail RPGs on PC for us Brits the last couple of months.

The UK's one of the best non-German or Polish countries for games, y'know. But at least it's applying to most countries and not just us.

It's not too uncommon for smaller publishers/developers to release physically after a digital version - 1C/Focus do it with King's Bounty. I got the digital version of Armored Princess months before it'd hit the shelves in the UK (And I think it must have been a year before the US, possibly), and Crossworlds is yet to be seen in retail form, but I've had it since it released digitally.

That said, I thought ArcaniA was out in retail form. How odd.
Originally Posted by Dwagginz
That said, I thought ArcaniA was out in retail form. How odd.

It was, but they withdrew it for no apparent reason. Fortunately the message didn't get through to all retailers, so although it's not available from Amazon, you can get it elsewhere - and a better deal the digital version, too: I got a (legit, I hasten to add) Collector's Edition for less than the Steam download would've cost me. Only 5p less, mind you, but it's still a much better deal.
I'm not a fan of digital distribution, I much prefer owning a retail, physical copy. What I don't understand is that the X360 retail version is available, but not the PC version! I can't even find a retail copy of the Flames of Vengeance expansion for PC! Surely someone at Larian must know what's going on?
Flames of Vengeance doesn't have a retail release outside of Germany. It's digital only for the rest of the world.

Vometia; Mind if I ask where you got that from? Play.com delayed the CE until next year, and I'm tempted to wait until then to get it.
Originally Posted by Dwagginz
Vometia; Mind if I ask where you got that from? Play.com delayed the CE until next year, and I'm tempted to wait until then to get it.

I eventually found it at ShopTo.net. Hadn't heard of them before but they seem reliable enough.

Seems they still have it in stock. linky
Bookmarked. I've heard some bad things about them, but then again many places have bad things said about them.
Even for xbox 360 these last couple of years retail shops have been taking the Mickey Mouse out of us gamers and have been focusing on mass marketed crap that the masses will buy such as Fable III.

What is also wrong that everyone from GAME to Supermarkets are jumping on the second hand part-x band wagon as they are making more from that and stealing money from developers! The law should be brought back or put into force that it is illegal to sell on second hand software like it was back in the 1980's.

GAME have had the monopoly for year and what they do and say has every other shop following suite. Gothic 4 is the best example of retail shops wanting to avoid something that may not sell + I believe JoWood really messed up getting it out. A good number of what you would call grade (B) titles are becoming hard to buy or not being stocked so your forced to buy online from the like of zavvi.com which is where I got my Gothic 4 for 360 after weeks of waiting for it to land in the shops.

I was over GAME like a bullet the day Divinity II: DSK was released on 360 and also wondering if they really would stock it. Was a surprise I can tell you!!

Sorry to go on and on. Like you I want a hard copy in my hands and I don't like buying online as the postman can not be trusted or may break the case/disc or it may arrive late beyond it's sell by date lol.

PC titles in GAME are shrinking as with 360 games ect... They only stock a limited amount now and a limited type of game for the masses. Again it's all about the second hand market which is WRONG!!


Gaming is starting to turn into the X-factor. A joke.



There are a good number of people on here who can help you with advice on how to get the PC version. I think you can also burn a digital copy to disc once you have bought it online, tho I would not know as I gave up PC gaming many years ago. Ask about, maybe it will change your mind just this once. Best of luck!
So here's a little industry secret to explain why PC versions of games aren't always available in the UK immediately.

The problem with PC UK is that in order for the stores to be able to slash prices so aggressively they demand enormous discounts from publishers/distributors. If they don't get their discounts, they don't take the game. When they then eventually get their discounts, grey importers buy large quantities of stock and sell them to other territories in Europe, destroying the market in those territories for the distributors/shops that bought the games at the normal trade price. Net result - for a publisher it can actually be more interesting not to release a PC version in the UK in order to protect the other PC markets.

And yes, the second hand market is affecting the game industry heavily.
Thanks for that explanation, so basically everyone loses out?

The publishers/distributors end up not being able to release their games, stores don't stock the game to sell so they lose out on profits and the gamer loses out by not being able to purchase the game! End result, game development studios close due to failure to market their products, stores have to make cut backs by releasing staff and closing stores to reduce overheads, the video game market ends up being dominated by a few massive companies and gamers stop buying games because they become way too expensive due to the huge overheads involved in actually creating a single game!

Isn't that a nice future to look forward to? All because too many companies are simply too greedy to realise that their "business" practices are the very thing that's slowly killing the industry!
Originally Posted by Grizzly UK
Isn't that a nice future to look forward to? All because too many companies are simply too greedy to realise that their "business" practices are the very thing that's slowly killing the industry!

Welcome to bonus culture: someone's probably made themselves a mint by forcing an unworkable agreement through. By the time it comes to reaping what they've sown, the management merry-go-round has moved them elsewhere and it's become somebody else's problem to fix... which they'll probably do by making a similarly unworkable policy, get a bonus and then be shuffled away again.

I think I shared my former employer with Dilbert.
Grizzly UK,

Everything you just posted is already happening. GAME own GAMESTATION. Blockbusters are on their own. ToysRus is the last place you would buy at. CEX don't sell anything new leaving us with the likes of HMV and all the big Supermarkets inc Argos ect.. left to fill the void.

GAME is killing it's self.

Some day we will all be forced to buy either online or at Tesco's wink
Originally Posted by Dwagginz
Flames of Vengeance doesn't have a retail release outside of Germany. It's digital only for the rest of the world.


What, no retail version for the expansion outside of Germany :S

Damn, I was hoping of getting the retail version of Flames of Vengeance and then patch it up into DKS

Don't like to purchase same stuff twice... but i guess I'll have to wait several months for the major price drop of DKS before purchase =(
Originally Posted by drazac
What, no retail version for the expansion outside of Germany :S

Larian have said FoV will be download-only for some time, now - I think possibly even dating back to at least the German release of the expansion.
i want dragon knight saga retail
Originally Posted by Dymblos
i want dragon knight saga retail
A lot of people want the PC version of DKS retail to be available in the UK (and elsewhere), but I very much doubt that's ever going to happen now! I've given up on ever getting a retail copy of DKS for PC. I purchased DD, BD and Div2 when they were each first released. But this fiasco with retail copies of the PC version of DKS not being released in UK has left me feeling very disappointed. As such, I doubt I'll ever purchase another Larian Studios game! mad

So... you will boycott a developer for the policies of UK stores, and the unwillingness of publishers to immediately slash prices after release?


I thought the UK DVD release was out? Lar mentioned the publisher sold out of it a couple weeks ago, and it would take some time to stores to restock...

I can't buy a hard copy?
Originally Posted by Raze

So... you will boycott a developer for the policies of UK stores, and the unwillingness of publishers to immediately slash prices after release?


I thought the UK DVD release was out? Lar mentioned the publisher sold out of it a couple weeks ago, and it would take some time to stores to restock...

I can't buy a hard copy?
No, I'll boycott a developer who chooses to withhold their game(s) from a particular market, no matter what the reason or excuse! I'd have been quite happy to pay the usual 25-30 price tag attached to new release games, but I haven't been given that choice! Trying to put the blame onto UK stores and/or publishers is just another excuse. As far as I'm concerned, whether it's the stores, the publishers or the developers at fault (or a mix of all 3) the end result is that I (and many others) simply cannot purchase a retail copy of the PC version of DKS anywhere in the UK, so why should I remain a loyal customer and fan of Larian Studios?

I have no idea what Lar was referring to, but there has not been any retail UK release of the PC version of DKS. If anyone at Larian thinks otherwise then I strongly suggest they check for themselves, I've been checking Amazon.co.uk, Game.co.uk, Play.com, Zavvi.com, GameStation.co.uk, GamePlay.co.uk and even HMV.com on a weekly basis. The X360 retail version is still available, which just makes the whole thing even more of a fiasco.
Sadly enough there was no distribution deal for UK retail release of the PC version.


It is however possible to buy the retail version from another European country (except Germany) because those versions all include the English language version. The only downside is that you won't have an English paper manual.

For example you could use amazon.fr to order it online.
The game will be in English and there will be an English language manual in pdf form.

I checked Amazon.ca and a couple other places in Canada, but Amazon doesn't ship software out of the country and the others didn't export period...
Originally Posted by Virc
... The only downside is that you won't have an English paper manual.

Oh, that's what that strange booklet is that I always ignore... grin
Originally Posted by Virc
Sadly enough there was no distribution deal for UK retail release of the PC version.


It is however possible to buy the retail version from another European country (except Germany) because those versions all include the English language version. The only downside is that you won't have an English paper manual.

For example you could use amazon.fr to order it online.
The game will be in English and there will be an English language manual in pdf form.
I'm sure Larian Studios can come up with any number of reasons as to why there was no distribution deal for UK retail release of the PC version. But when all the excuses have been put forth, the bottom line is that the game has been withheld from the UK market. How can Larian Studios and their publishing partners believe that such actions would not have some sort of consequences? Do Larian Studios believe that they are so finacially secure that they can simply ignore certain markets?

Suggesting that potential customers should purchase from another European country is just ridiculous! Ah well, Larian Studios' loss is another developers gain I guess, there are plenty of other games being released to the UK market that I can purchase so I'll just go and spend my money on those other games.
But we can still buy it online. It's not like we don't have access to it, so it's hardly withheld.

We just can't get it in our preferred format, that's it.
Originally Posted by Dwagginz
But we can still buy it online. It's not like we don't have access to it, so it's hardly withheld.

We just can't get it in our preferred format, that's it.
So that justifies not releasing the PC version to the retail UK market? confused If I wanted to buy a digital download version I'd have done so, but I wanted a physical copy. I shouldn't have to spend months trying to find a distributor whare I can actually buy the version I want, nor should I have to spend possibly several hours downloading a game that costs me the same price as the retail version but that actually gives me less for my money (no disk(s), no manual, etc)!

Maybe next time they'll decide not to release to the retail North American market. Or maybe they'll just decide to release as digital download only. Or maybe, due to such poor "business decisions", the studio simply closes. jawdrop

Larian didn't 'decide' to not release a DVD PC version in the UK, just like they didn't 'decide' to wait to release a North American Xbox version (there is still no US DVD version either). If no publisher in a particular region will pick up a certain version of a developer's game, and there are financial, legal and/or logistical reasons the developer can not self-publish, then it is not a case of withholding a game.

If Larian was 'so financially secure' they would have a lot more interest from publishers, and a lot more influence over them.

How is it ridiculous to suggest importing a game from another country? I've ordered lots of games from the UK that were not available locally and had to be gotten online (and shipping times to Canada are often faster from the UK than US). There were lots of people in the US willing to order the PC version of DKS from Canada if any of the places that carried it would ship there.

If you have to have a particular version from a particular region, then simply wait for a re-release of the game and see if a UK publisher eventually picks up a DVD version. Or feel free to blame Larian and never buy the game, if you wish.
Originally Posted by Grizzly UK
So that justifies not releasing the PC version to the retail UK market?

No, and I never said that. My point was that we still have it available to us, whereas you claimed it had been 'withheld'. No, it's not been withheld - That makes it sound as if Larian have the ability to get it released in the UK but have decided not to.

Point is we have access to it, just not in the way some of us would prefer.
Then I'll apologise for my choice of the term "withheld", although whatever term you want to use, whether it's "withheld", "unavailable", "unreleased", "unpublished" or whatever, it still boils down to the fact that physical retail copies of the game for the PC are not available on the UK market and probably never will be! As I've said before, I'm sure there are any number of reasons as to why this has happened. Whether it's down to the developer, publisher, retailer or a mix of all 3, it still doesn't change the facts.

If people are happy to adopt the "no matter, go buy the digital download or import from another country" attitude then that's their choice to do so. I've chosen not to do that, and not for the first time either!

It's a simple process of elimination really, first I would have complained to retailer(s) for not stocking the game, but that's no good because retailers cannot stock the game because it's "unavailable". Pretty much the same for the publisher, because it seems there isn't a publisher! It seems I'm now being told not to blame Larian, so who's left to complain to?

I really would have liked to buy a physical copy of DKS, check my post that started this thread, I had actually pre-ordered it from Game.co.uk until the release day passed by and Game cancelled my pre-order! Sadly, for whatever reason, my preferred choice of purchase is not possible, so now I've decided to move on and purchase other games from other developers/publishers. If people want to make me out to be the bad guy then go ahead, I hope that makes you feel so much better!

We were not making you out to be a bad guy, just objecting to your choice of terms implying it was a decision on Larian's part not to release a PC DVD version in the UK (or apparently the US). You are welcome to propose it was a failure on their part, though. biggrin

I don't buy recent (ie mid to full price) releases without trying a demo, and cheaper games usually at least require a recommendation from a trusted source, so don't begrudge you any conditions you wish to place on how you spend your own money.

There were jewel case budget re-releases of Divine Divinity and Beyond Divinity, so maybe that will happen with DKS, as well. There may also be a time limit on region exclusivity, so the Canadian DVD version (assuming you want an English manual) may eventually start showing up there at places that import games, or online at places that ship outside Canada.
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