Larian Studios
Posted By: SENIOR CINCO Dual Wielding problem - 15/04/11 06:15 AM
It doesn't matter in which hand you place your more powerful weapon, the stats remain the same. Is this not working properly or am I just missing something?

Posted By: Trippy Re: Dual Wielding problem - 15/04/11 09:28 AM
What do you mean by 'more powerful weapon'? If you're talking about +physical damage or +magic damage, then any bonus you recieve is added to BOTH weapons (and in the case of +magic damage, to spell damage also). So it doesn't matter which weapon you have +damage on - both weapons will get the same bonus (e.g. the combined bonous of each weapon).

You should put the best 'raw' damage weapon in your best hand, but don't worry about which hand you use for bonus damage...

EDIT: Yes - dual wielding is ridiculously powerful in DKS because of this 'cross charging' of damange bonuses. Unless you're playing a pure tank build, you're almost always better off dual wielding.
Posted By: agustusx Re: Dual Wielding problem - 15/04/11 12:35 PM
ok I'm new, which stat determines the raw power. I've always looked at the +phys + magical to determine which weapon is strongest. I guess I've been missing something.

Coming from DnD I found it strange that you could use any weapon size/weight on your off-hand with no detrimental but decided that it just made things more fun this way. So no complaints about overpowered dual-wielding from me wink
Posted By: SENIOR CINCO Re: Dual Wielding problem - 15/04/11 03:07 PM
Ok, I guess I'm not explaining this right. So for simplicity lets forget about any bonuses that a given weapon might have, and look at the melee and magic damage of the weapons and the weapon damage stat. The damage of a weapon (melee or magic) should always be increased by a small % if placed in your primary (right) hand. Alternatively, any weapon placed in your off-hand (left) should be decreased by a large amount. These numbers are reflected in the stat menu of your character info screen under weapon damage, with melee displayed in white and magic displayed in purple within ().

A change in weapon damage should be seen, for example, when you wield a weapon that deals only melee
damage and a weapon that deals only magic damage, and for explanation lets give these weapons 100 ea. If you place the melee damage weapon in your MH and your magic damage weapon in your OH, and using the lvl 3 modification from DW EXP which is +5% for your MH and -50% for your OH. The numbers in your weapon damage stat should read 105 + (50). If the magic based weapon is placed in your MH and melee
in your OH. The stats should reflect as 50 + (105).
Posted By: Raze Re: Dual Wielding problem - 15/04/11 03:30 PM

At least in D2:ED, when duel wielding the stats displayed the average damage of the two weapons. I never tried duel wielding in the demo, and haven't started a new character yet in the full game.

One thing I did notice in the demo, with a bow doing 1-3 damage equipped, in the stats if I had any filled equipment slot selected (by the character model) the damage was listed as 1-3. However, if I selected a slot with nothing equipped (like the helmet), the damage changed to 2-2.
Posted By: SENIOR CINCO Re: Dual Wielding problem - 15/04/11 03:42 PM
Originally Posted by Raze

At least in D2:ED, when duel wielding the stats displayed the average damage of the two weapons.

Exactly, and the numbers would change pending on the weapon placed in the MH. That doesn't seem to be the case here.

I'm trying to remember, because I don't have a copy of ED anymore, if it was an average or a total of the two based on the lvl of DW EXP. But in any case the numbers changed pending placement.
Posted By: Raze Re: Dual Wielding problem - 15/04/11 04:15 PM

Yes, the D2:ED display took into account the current duel wield skill level (and strength) when listing the average damage.
Posted By: 30johner Re: Dual Wielding problem - 16/04/11 03:24 PM
I've noticed the same thing. In ED the average of your duel weapons were displayed in your Status menu. The new menu layout displays an individual weapon's damage in the inventory screen. But in the status screen it only shows the damage for one of your weapons. This is what your talking about right?

I don't think that really effects the damage you do in battle. I think it's just a display error and larian forgot to display the average of both weapons. Therefore only one of your weapons damage is displayed. But if you just look at the damage your doing to enemies it should match up with the true stats of your weapons.
Posted By: SENIOR CINCO Re: Dual Wielding problem - 16/04/11 05:47 PM
The inventory menu can be confusing, but it will show the average damage of both weapons as reflected in the stat screen, as long as you have your MH weapon highlighted on the left of the screen.

As far as actual damage, which is an issue in itself, that is displayed in detail in your logbook on a per hit basis. It's very hard to understand exactly what is happening here. Was the damage from that particular strike caused from the MH or OH, or both?

My initial concern is if the weapon damage is implemented properly pending the weapon placement in the MH or OH. As the average damage displayed should change. This could be important to a player depending on his or her playstyle. I prefer to wield a melee damage based in one hand and a magic based in the other. It seems that melee enemies are more resistant to melee attacks and magic enemies to magic attacks. That would constitute which weapon to place in what hand, when facing that particular enemy. Given the description in the DW EXP branch (as in ED) your MH will always deliver more damage until you have maxed out the branch (10 I think) at which point the difference is smaller.

I hate to reference ED, because there are changes (most of which are for the better without question) and this is a different game. So, PLEASE understand I'm not trying to say "THAT'S THE WAY IT WAS AND THAT'S THE WAY IT SHOULD BE". I just want to fully understand the mechanics of DW in and out of combat, and if there is an issue that needs addressed and corrected.
Posted By: 30johner Re: Dual Wielding problem - 16/04/11 10:51 PM
I don't know why this question isn't getting more attention. DKS has been available outside of America for a while now hasn't it? So shouldn't someone experienced with this version of the game be helping?

Anyway, something sure is screwy here. I've found that when dual wielding your main-hand is actually on the right side of the inventory screen with your accessories, and your off-hand is on the left with your armor. Not only that but the status screen only shows the off-hand weapons damage range, not the average.

Also it no longer seems like enchantments are shared between your weapons. I'm still early in the game, only level 5, and have 4 one-handed weapons. One being the Mace(which you get by mind-reading the guard in front of the mill) and another being a light iron sword with a +2 normal damage enchantment. When the Mace is in my main hand and the sword in my off-hand the mace doesn't get the +2 bonus and remains at 10-12. If the sword is put in my main hand any off-hand weapon will get the boost.

EDIT: You know, I was half-right. The off-hand weapon(left side) displays the average damage, but I was right about the placement of the weapons, main on the right and off-hand on the left. It doesn't add up when the positions are switched, plus the right weapons stats don't go down. I'm also pretty confident that enchantments do not power up both weapons. What it rather does is the base power of both weapons(plus charms) are added together and then averaged. Then the enchantments are added to that number and that gives you the games displayed average.

That calculation only worked with a pair of weapons one way, when they were reversed it didn't work. So I'm kinda pissed that any damage calc. I come up with doesn't work with all my weapon combination's. It may be that enchantments behave differently depending on if their on the main or off-hand.
Posted By: SENIOR CINCO Re: Dual Wielding problem - 16/04/11 11:29 PM
I'm on a 360, and the weapon slots on the inventory screen correspond to the proper hand of the character, as you are facing him, with the right hand being the MH. If I unequip the MH (rh of my character) the weapon in my OH (lh) automatically changes to my MH. To be honest, at this point, I'm not exactly sure what the hell is being displayed at the damage stat. I am in the search for a weapon that deals only magic damage, with no +damage bonus of any kind. I have several melee only, but no magic only. That way I can run a set of controlled test to see what's going on.
Posted By: 30johner Re: Dual Wielding problem - 17/04/11 12:18 AM
Read my edit. I'm also on the 360.

They set this up in a confusing way. The melee weapon on the left side of the screen should always be your main hand, and the right side should be for the shield and off-hand. Why the hell did they make it so when you DW your main and off-hand switch? If your using sword and shield and change your shield for a weapon, your likely stronger weapon in your left/main hand will become weaker and the weapon you swapped the shield for will become the main weapon. I guess if the DW skill is above 10 it's better, but for the majority of the game it'll probably be below that.

There's no such thing as a pure magic weapon. The best is like a 10/90 split.

I wish a Dev would explain what the damage calc. is for DW and why this seems confusing.
Posted By: SENIOR CINCO Re: Dual Wielding problem - 17/04/11 12:50 AM
Hey.. you're right. I could have sworn there was one, but the best it's going to get is a weapon with 2-5 melee dmg or something.

My weapon slots and hand placement are doing what and where they should. I don't understand what's up
with yours, but there are games that are bugged and only effect some people. Either on different or on the same platforms.

Besides, I think they like to watch us wiggle and figure it out on our own.

Makes for good forum traffic...
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