With Steam announcing their SteamBox, and other cloud-gaming platforms on the horizon, we were wondering if we should support controller input. Anyone have some good examples of top down RPGs with controller support?

Of course the challenge is to NOT change anything about gameplay and design, and interactivity, and to still cater for keyboard/mouse fans. We are well aware of that and do not want to make compromises.

Also, quoting Lar: "...if we put in controller support, there's no reason left why we shouldn't support the game on consoles. But, since putting in controller support is a lot of work, we're trying to figure out if there's a demand. And no, this is not an official announcement that the game will appear on consoles."

From my experience

X-Men Legends II: Rise of Apocalypse
Marvel Ultimate Alliance
Dungeon Siege III (good controls IMO but bad RPG)

But my examples are a bit moot since these are all action RPGs, not turn based (the question wasn't specific enough). The efficiency of the controls are tailored for real time combat. Someone in the previous threads mentioned XCom Enemy Unknown. I haven't played that but from what I've read, it is turn based (strategy though) and has controller support, it might be the perfect example. Again I never played that game so that is speculation on my part.

If available I'd probably use a controller some or all of the time, but lack of support wouldn't be a deal breaker for getting the game.

Hmm, because it's a Turn based combat rpg I don't have any need for using a controller on pc game !
So for me: no demand .
But even with a real time combat rpg like DD and BD I don't have the feeling I "need" a controller ...

For me:
all of D:OS is PC operating (with mouse and keyboard)
OR
BOTH : full pc game + full console game

And nothing in between !

But again: this kind of game is best played on a pc, especially with the "editor" in mind !

Xcom EU is great with controller. You can sit down and relax and enjoy the game and you don't have to be hunched over the PC to play it.

The Witcher 2 is also great with Xbox controller. Two World 2 as well.

I think you should include it, especially since the combat is TB and you don't need precision of mouse to frantically click around while your characters are engaged in Real-time combat ala Baldurs Gate, etc.

P.S. Why not develop it with Xbox controller in mind (like Witcher 2 was) and later you will have an option to release it on consoles.

JESUS CHRIST
Please, tell me who is the artist who draws these two? Does he has deviantart/CGHub account? I asked it via email but never hot a reply from you. Damn, I already love this couple thanks to this brilliant artwork.


I stay by my previous statement regarding all these questions directed to community; as long as changes do not affect original game concept/design much (ie unlike with TES5 case - game primarily developed for PC and there won't be any stupid changes due to console port/additions) - I'm fine with that, I don't mind.


There is a lot of turn-based/tactic games on consoles that works fine with gamepad. They are not sole card of PC platform. Just saying.

And what about the NON combat features like all the stuff that is not nailed to the ground you can move etc etc ... and what about managing the "Editor" with a controller ? I believe making all this possible with a controller is difficult to make it intuitive enough to have fun with it !

Okay, it is possible to play a TB combat on a console, I agree, but a RPG is more than combat alone .

I don't think the editor will ever work with a controller. You need to do some typing to get stuff working (dialogs, scripts, names, settings). It's an editor like a dev uses, so the modders have all the power, i.e. it's not an editor that a six-year-old can use. (It's not a "Shoot Em Up Construction Kit" type of application, it's a full blown RPG editor. Not a commercial "Make your own RPG for dummies" thing.)

Kein: I don't think he has one of those. I also don't remember if it was Koen who made this, or Thierry...

Not an RPG, but with controller support : Some of the Rayman games (I think it was Rayman 3).
And "Beyond Good & Evil" as well, if I remember correctly.

At the Watch several people pointed towards Sacred 2.

No offense to Joram...

but if ever Larian announces the editor to be fully functional with a gamepad (controller), I'm going to shoot out all the insults I can come up with at Larian until I get banned.

prejudice aside

Larian might want to look into Runic games' foray into the console with Torchlight 1 (2 different games released, one for console the other for PC) and why they totally abandoned the controller in Torchlight 2. Again, Torchlight is a real time game, not turn based but their reasons had something to do with resources and the effort required to do it.

IIRC Runic games is classified as an indie developer.

I liked the previous version of that image better, the one where the guy has the spiral necklace. Something about his face in this one doesn't look so good. But I like how the image speaks to me, though.

I don't care if the game supports controllers as long as the KB/M support is good. But I'm not terribly worried about that being a problem.

Orogion's DeviantArt Page

He is our lead animator but he also does a lot of concept art.

A good isometric RPG with controller support ? Maybe yes, but certainly NOT Divinity : Original Sin !!
That's now cristal clear to me !

And I'm wondering why the h**ll this question was coming up

There were requests for controller support in the PC version of Divinity 2. Of course there is much less need in a turn based isometric game, but having the option isn't a bad thing as long as resources are not taken away from other features and it doesn't restrict any design choices. World interaction and inventory management would be easier with a mouse, but can still be done with a controller.

I don't think an editor would be missed with a console version; the design / intent isn't really compatible. There are probably editors for racing games, etc, but anyone wanting to create anything with an RPG editor would want to do so on a PC.

ForkTong said in the original post the question was coming up due to Steam announcing SteamBox and upcoming cloud based gaming services (potential markets focused on living room gaming, where a controller is easier to use than a keyboard and mouse).

But I believe Lar is not a fan of making D:OS with controller support ...

And if a gamer is smart and creative he/she can find a way to play in his/her living room on a pc with mouse and keyboard ... especially with a laptop.
So I hope when D:OS is coming on the market I can find a really good laptop (just because I'm planning to buy a laptop anyway in 2013 or 2014) in a shop that can handle D:OS very smooth, even the Editor ! And then a whole new fantastic fantasy world is laying on my feed to step into and enjoy ... for yearrrrrsss !!

And besides I play on the xbox using my pc 19 inch flatscreen (that is not standing in the living room!), the same flatscreen I use for my pc. Why ? Because I like to make notes while playing and lying in the sofa with a controller looking at a tv screen is "not my style to play relaxed" trying to make notes that way .
But again, that's me.

Thank you.

Any other artists there?

I don't think it's possible to make a deep, isometric RPG for game pad use without redesigning a lot of core functionality. A great example is Skyrim. Great RPG and game in general, but the interface is absolutely terrible and the whole game feels "dumbed down." It's the same with Oblivion and Fallout 3. I'm pretty sure this is why Bethesda moved fallout away from an isometric game and made it a first person shooter. Action RPG's can get away with controller support because they have minimal environmental interaction.

Also, because the way consoles work is so pervasive, the elements used for a controller would ultimately spill over to the PC version. This is true of so many games (some are so bad, they force you to press specific keyboard buttons just to navigate the main menu, rendering the mouse useless).

Is it impossible? No. But I think the resources would be better spent making a fully polished PC game with additional content than a console port.

There is also the issue of co-op and the (possible) addition of full multiplayer support. You would either have to prevent cross-platform gaming, or shackle the PC version so the console players aren't always falling behind or (in the case of pvp) getting stomped.

I have been using SteamBox since it`s beta and love it. I can sit on my couch and load up multiple games in one session and never have to use my keyboard. I will get Original Sin no matter what but being able to play from my couch would be icing on the cake.

I also think the FULL CONTROLLER SUPPORT mark on Steam games has become a selling point for many shoppers. If you want to pull in more customers from the console crowd (which is what Steam is doing with SteamBox) you will need controller support.

A warning though as other have pointed out. Leaving your PC crowd behind is a mistake. Having two separate UIs would be a lot of work but I think it`s the only way with such a detailed game world. If you are going for controller support go 100%.

This would normally be a deal breaker for me, for example I didn't buy Divinity 2 for the PC until after I knew a third party enabled the game to be played on a gamepad. That said after falling in love with Divinity 2 and reading that if there will be a Divinity 3 it needs to be funded through sales of Dragon Commander and Original Sin I will buy both games at launch. I have no intention of playing either game until someone enables gamepad support but I have no problem gambling the price of two games if it means I might have the chance to purchase Divinity 3 at a later date.

That said, I think it would be smart to enable controler port as if you look pc games that have sold well they either support a gamepad or a third party has developed support in order to sell its software. I know it's a chicken and egg thing, but still I think the link is causational rather than correlational.

Torchlight supported the gamepad when Runic Games did the porting to x360...I think that would be nice to have a controller support!!! But to no compromise the GUI for mouse and keyboard... I think larian must create a new GUI specifically for the new imput...

While you cant consider it a true isometric rpg, sacred 2 has the best controller layout for an action rpg. I understand this game uses turn based combat, however, sacred 2's layout may still prove useful. If you havent seen it this is how it works. In total you can have 12 skills including your weapon and/or shield. Each skill is manually mapped to each of the four face buttons. To open up the other "tabs" you hold either the left or right trigger and again manually assign skills to each of the four face buttons. This allows you to organize skills such as buffs into one tab, close combat or more frequently used skills in another and your utility or situation specific skills in a third. It also allows for macros freeing up even further space to equip skills. One press of a button and you pick up all loot within a certain radius around you. Left stick dictates your skill's casted direction since you must remain still while you use skills. Even without the option to move or dodge in real time, simply having 12 readily available skills allows for a lot of options. Sacred 2 overall is a bit rough, though one of my all time favorites, but it has the best controller layout maximizing efficiency for picking up (ninjaing) loot and space available to allow you to use your full arsenal.


I'd like to add as a side note that sacred 2 also has one of the best set ups for building a pure necromancer.

I'm glad this game has no controller support. Else we'll end up with 10 spells instead of 100.. Scrolling inventory instead of grid-based. Enough is enough. Console gaming has caused more destruction to gaming than ever seriously!.

I'm also glad this game has no spoon-feeding or hand-holding. Otherwise it would be an insult to my intelligence.

I don't know, it seems fairly simple to port it to a controller based setup.
One analogue stick controls a cursor, the other controls the camera, left trigger is left click, right trigger is right click.

You don't need to reword the interface or anything at all, there's no reason for it to be like Dragon Age Origins for example, where they made a specific console UI and stuff. Just port the controls, make the text bigger and that's it, done.

The only issue would be making the text a bit larger (something that the PC version would benefit from a lot, the text is too damn small Larian).

That's basically it. I wouldn't use it, but I don't mind it as long, as it doesn't harm my PC experience, as Skyrim did.

Not sure if you want this sort of feedback; but I never use a controller. I do have an xbox controller and tried it once of twice but found it very klunky. What bugs the heck out of me is that most games with controller support have lousy kb/mouse support.

Witcher 2 (not top down); is probably the best game with combined kb/m and controller support but even with this game you can tell that interface with kb/m would have been a *lot* better if they hadn't mucked it up for controller support.
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I can't really answer your question for demand but in practice I think a game requires to completely different interfaces not a single interface with two streams of input. How you present things for the kb/m crowd can fundamentally be different than for those with a controller (witcher 2 demonstrates this problem in how they manage inventory; the design is around a controller - and as I noted it is one of the best combined interfaces I've seen it is also clear they had to handicap kb/m to support it; I think what they shoudl have done (and you) is build two completely different interfaces (including graphics around presentation of things like inventory) and then feed the output of the interface into the game. This might be more work than you wish to undertake or the structure of the code might not support it (I've not seen a game do this yet; but perhaps there is an example somewhere).

Btw darksoul sucks not because I dislike the game but the control/interface is everely handicapped on the pc.

I guess I'm going to have to break down & try using a gamepad with this game. This sucks for me because my gaming sessions are cut much shorter with a gamepad due to pain & cramping. I don't have this issue with "normal" PC controls. I've tried starting The Witcher 2 twice since I bought it & combat is absolute rubbish with a mouse & keyboard. I've never made it past the 1st fight without rage-quitting in frustration. This could be because I'm getting older & worse at "twich" gaming, but I had 0 issues with (& loved) The Witcher.

I do know one thing, I won't be buying The Wild Hunt until I know it's fully playable with a mouse & keyboard.

If the controls are already set for pc why is there still some comcern that it will be dumbed down if translated to consoles? This thread is to offer potential options for controller layouts. To find examples of other rpgs that have attempted the transition from pc based controls to gamepad. Why are we complaining about a problem that doesnt exist? The pc already has its controls. Theyre set. Theres no need to continue slamming a gamepad for what it cant do. Use those brains and help figure out what they can do. If any devs are reading this i highly recommend looking at sacred 2. It translates the potential complexity of an rpg of this type from a primarily pc based control scheme to a gamepad.

There are no examples, and there are none for a good reason.

Btw, I recently grabbed Sacred 2 and didn't play it for very long partly due to the controls (playing with mouse/kb). Not to mention that the entire game feels and plays more like Diablo 3 than something as complex as D:OS (or any of the IE games).

I honestly don't see how anyone can argue that something designed for an input system with 101 keys (+mouse) can be properly translated to a device that has like 12 buttons. It just does not compute. That's not even taking into account the inaccuracy of thumbsticks when compared to a mouse.

Unless you want to redesign your game around a controller there is simply no way to properly port a complex isometric RPG to a controller. That's also why it was never done successfully (need I remind that Dragon Age: Origins, which afaik is the closest contender, got some major surgery in the tactical department to make it work on consoles, they even had to make the game easier to make up for that. Pretty much no-one except the die-hardest console zealots would argue that the console port isn't worse than the PC version)

Doing it the other way around (eg. designing the UI for consoles and then releasing for PC is much easier, however this tends to lead to pretty crappy UIs and generally simplified combat (since thumbsticks lack the precision of a proper mouse), The Witcher 2 and Skyrim are both good examples, and they're not even isometric RPGs (so they should be easier to fit a controller control scheme, but developers pretty much never do so, because good enough is good enough and suckers will buy it anyway, at least you can mod the crappy UI away in Skyrim)

Is it so hard to accept that certain games are just *better* with certain input methods? No-one would argue that playing beat-em-ups with a keyboard is generally subpar to doing so with a controller. Nor would anyone argue that playing a proper flight sim without a joystick is masochistic. So *why* does everyone want to force a controller interface on genres (like isometric tactical RPGs and RTS games) that are clearly not served by them?

EDIT: btw, Torchlight is also playable with a controller (though, imho, the experience is still much worse than with a kb+mouse), because torchlight is a very simple game when it comes to controls, just like Sacred 2 and just like Diablo.

Best example for turn-based tactical party combat on console should imo be XCOM Enemy Unknown.

That's of course not an RPG but it could at least be an example how to transfer the combat to controller. But it would need a whole new GUI (everything ring or list based) of course.


And of course there is Diablo III which as well offers a completely distinct UI (and even experience) on console.


Edit: Wow, this thrad is OLD. Sry, haven't seen that. Doesn't seem much relevant anymore. Don't mind.

I still think there's no need for this, when you can just port the controls over.
It's a turn based game, so selecting stuff with a cursor being slower does not affect the gameplay at all.

The game this most reminds me of is Arc the lad Twilight of the spirits (for ps2, so naturally with controller support :P), with the turn based rpg combat system , it might work to use a control scheme like that but then skills would have to be mapped to something else like a menu accessible by a button, or a key modifier like holding a bumper + regular button.

That's true for the combat, but not for the inventory for example. That doesn't really work without sliders and mousewheel.

Just make it into pages, simple.

Not just slower: less precise. I suggest you try it, there are utilities like Xpadder that let you remap games that don't have controller support to support controllers. For games like D:OS and Baldur's Gate the user experience is just beyond horrible (you end up zooming in and out all the time in D:OS alternating between being able to see what is going on and being able to comfortably select something on the battlefield, trust me, it's tedious at best).

And as LC mentioned, designing a proper inventory UI for the kind hugge inventories you tend to end up with (certified packrat here) seems beyond most (certainly CDPR and Bethesda failed pretty majorly in that regard)

PS: also didn't notice this was an old thread, just noticed someone it was on the first page with a recent reply. Whoops.

I am believer that anything can be done, but I really don't see good coming from this. You can have all the good intentions in the world, but you know the saying... "The road to hell is paved with good intentions".

Eventually you are going to have to change gameplay and design focus to attend to the controller. It will end up having an effect on many systems ranging from inventory design, menu functionality, movement and selection, UI systems, and ultimately game complexity (ie the more skills, abilities and functional aspects of the game you have, the more of a nightmare it is for a controller).

Not to be useless to this discussion, but I just don't see any good coming from this. Sorry.

I was thinking and actually I think where things are headed are tablets not consoles. BG I/II was recently released on tablet as well as XCOM. Obsidian is also release an interesting RPG on the tablet.
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Now what we need are 'touch' controllers that have sensors like a tablet to use with the big screen

Dunno if it has been said but, it's possible to create a working Divinity OS with the controller, don't see why not. The game is payed in turns, so, you have plenty of time to do exactly what you want, and while you're wandering in the field, you can press a button to call for an arrow and click on objects OR when you're close to intractable objects, you can cycle through them, and main objects (like chests and boxes) can be opened with a click...

Honestly, this game isn't that hard to port to a controller, just complex. If you port to PS4 you have the small pad that can function as an arrow, and with WiiU gamepad, you can simply touch the screen.

Loving the game with mouse and keyboard, but, many people can't play this masterpiece because they don't have a PC, you should really port it to consoles.

Quick edit - games that I played on consoles that were isometric:
- Champions of Norrath
- Champions of Norrath Return to Arms
- Baldurs Gate Dark Alliance
- Baldurs Gate Dark ALliance 2
- Sacred 2

All of them were awesome (except for Sacred 2 because the port was badly done, and had to buy it for PC... and it's one of my favorite nowadays).
Champions Return to Arms is IMO the best console Isometric RPG game, I ficnihed the game (and the 1st one) more than 5 times each one... co-op and solo.

I think this game reminds me of the first Dragon Age. Though it was RTwP, DA had the same strategic feel about it in combat as D:OS and it had similar approach to skills. It was made on consoles as well, but from what I hear, it was much worse than pc version when it came to controls. It is very difficult to implement party member switching, command issuing and strategic spell placement with precision and ease on a controller. I don't even know what they'd do if there was so much pixel hunting in DA as it is in D;OS. Bioware even removed the strategic mode from the Dragon Age 2 because of that, but decided to return it in Dragon Age: Inquisition, overhauled and streamlined. We'll see how good it is, but I'm still never in my life gonna play that type of game on a console. So no, I don't think that making D:OS on consoles will bring devs anything but a headache, tons of wasted time and complaints about inferior controls compared to pc version. Some types of games are just not good with controller. Like strategies, and D:OS is very strategic.

Touch interfaces are a fad in terms of a replacing current PC inputs for gaming. It is like Wii, sure... it is fun, it has its niche uses, there are some really cool things you can do with it, but when it comes down to it, you aren't going to see people wanting to play long sessions (common in RPGs) making large physical movements.

That is not to say that a touch system can't be successful in some implementations, but not with the current setup of monitors (ie a screen sitting in front of you vertically).

Even if you tried to create a more natural approach to an interface, like for instance this:



There is still a lot of large physical movement going on to which will get tiring very quickly, even for those in good shape.

A keyboard and mouse provide the most optimal interface for comfort, precision, and depth of input control (number of input combinations) with the least amount of physical effort required. This is ideal for long play sessions of RPGs.

Controllers win out over keyboard/mice when it concerns comfort and least physical involvement, but... they lack precision and depth of input control.

I don't see the keyboard/mouse going anywhere soon and making games for the other input methods, while interesting and briefly entertaining (occulus rift, motion sensors, etc...) for specific purposes (ie limited immersion, exercise or short play) , they are not ideal for complex RPG systems.

It is going to be a difficult road for Larian to abide controllers, unless...


They create their own controller, designed from the ground up to facilitate this exact style of game (considering how they loathe physical releases, I don't see this going over well). I am not sure how it would work, how it would look, but it is the only way I see them being able to retain the complex interface designs of an RPG and have the relaxed comfort of a controller interface.

I mean, lets face it... the controller argument is essentially an argument of wanting to "kick back, relax, and play a game with minimal effort". Maybe it is just me, but I think that ideal is a bit conflicting with what a tactical and technical RPG is. /shrug

Here is the thing. Are those console games or are they ports? I know "Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance" is a console game, was designed from the ground up to be such because Brian Fargo said it was a complete nightmare to try and translate the PC version to console. It was such a task because not only did they have to completely redesign the games core input mechanics, but they had to redesign the games mechanics, story encounters, etc... The result was an entirely new story and game play because the PC approach wouldn't work well for console.


That is my point previously about them wanting to support controllers, that is... the game will have to adapt to fit the controllers in many ways just to make it even feasible. They might be able to half-arse it, but... well why bother? Why ruin your game because you did a crappy port just to get it on console?

ForkTong, Lars...

Contact Brian Fargo and pick his brain on it. He has a lot of experience with this very thing. Could save you the trouble of making some mistakes and he might even be able to point you to a workable solution.

Good luck!

Not sure if it has already been mentioned but ...Diablo 1 PSX version is the first I remember, while porting Diablo 3 to PS4 they said it was "unsuspiciously fun" to play it with a controller, every isometric rpg ever released on consoles forcefully have full controller support and the trend to appreciate it on PC is growing faster and faster thanks to HDTVs and "couches".

EDIT: Dungeon Siege III is a good isometric RPG with a nearly amazing controller support even on PC.

I would say you could consistently boost your sales while making a lot of people happy adding a good controller support to this game.

To be frank, i honestly think Larian should make a stance to not port or make it available to PS4. If they are holding content on their platform and forcing PC gamers to purchase their hardwares and pay subscriptions, why should PC games make available on their platform?

These corporate giants has been constantly trying to kill off PC gaming solely for the purpose of their own benefits so that they have part of their market share in gaming entertainment. PC gaming is not dead in anyway if you look at the MOBA like LoL and DOTA (which currently having TI4 International matches in US).

Console gaming has nothing more than trying to kill off PC gaming. Do you see MOBA or any RTS in E3? It's all about HYPE and false advertising (demonstrating next-generation games on high-end PCs) while the end-product that land on gamers hand is no where in comparison.

If console gaming STOP these exclusive crap, then by ALL means do release the game to consoles (i'm not selfish like some Japanese corporations).

I think the decision to port or not is going to be based on expected sales volumes for Larian.
If there is going to be a demand for it then they will port it and hopefully make some money in the process.

My opinion on the topic is to be careful with porting it to platforms. The target market for this game is more the old school players. When you take a look at console consumers they are more the variety of quick consumption games. Fast paced titles such as FPS's and Beatemup. From an RPG perspective JRPG's are the most influential. With JRPG I am talking about RPG's in the style of FF and even there you see a trend towards action orientation where you need to make quick decisions on what skills a party member uses. Terrain and strategy is in that regards more limited than what D:OS offers.

So bottom line: I'm not sure if consoles is the right market for D:OS and if the demand is going to cover the cost of porting it.

Before going down that road I'd do some market research. Maybe do another KS or something to fund a port to see if there is community demand for it. That way you could cover your porting costs and be certain you aren't throwing money out of the window.

To be honest your seems just an inaccurate rant, but I did't dig through the whole thread so I'm not sure you were referring to my last post.

You're calling-in PS4 but I in no-way have said this game should go on that platform or even (worse) another One, just that "on PC" adding full controller support could "boost the sales" and "make a lot of people happy" since the trend is growing fast.

To tell it all, on a second thought, it wouldn't be a so bad idea after all, in fact this game is one of those evergreen gems which, even if best suited on pC on which they can live longer, it would perfectly fit a PS4 as well, if a Diablo III does...

You also speak about "killing-off" PC gaming which is not the case, no publisher of "console games" would like to cut-off his fair share of PC gamers since multi-platform releases are a thing.

Also, please forgive me, but I think your first statement make no sense at all in its second part and the answer is simple enough, or, because when you release a game on PC you don't force anyone to buy YOUR hardware cause you do not have interests in doing that, then it's easy to understand how it could be a good idea to release the suitable games on the widest platform park as possible, costs-benefits ratio allowing, your reason seems just a, no offense intended, childish selfishness.

To cut the debate however, the point is "controller support on PC" due to very reasonable grounds, if planning a release on consoles could help mitigate the cost of the operation and improve the aforementioned costs-benefits ratio, well, it would be welcome, why not ?

This is the longest version of what I was saying above, it makes perfect sense and I agree 100%, still the controller support by itself even without an ongoing console port, I think could greatly improve the (open-minded) PC gamers experience with all the possible benefits, included but not limited to calling-in people who like the most playing a game in a confortable fashion, my point is not meant only to just improve the experience of the ones already owning the game but dragging in even the ones who didn't buy it alredy cause they would like to play it on their HDTVs and sitting on a confortable couch and, since to date is not possible and/or confortable as it should, they are simply waiting for news in this regards (yes, I'm one of them).

@Jack
My post was not referring to anyone in particular. Calling my post in-accurate is mostly your opinion or probably many more. But even so, that does not makes an opinion invalid or in-accurate.

I'm not sure what's the cost to port it to a controller and probably there could be simplifications required on the UI/menus to suit it better for gaming with a controller and hence even more cost and resources involved. Also, your opinion on support could "boost the sales" and "make a lot of people happy" since the trend is growing fast. That is just merely your opinion that it could "boost the sales" simply in convincing Larian to port it to a controller. Try making a poll or a petition and get as many valid signed, and agreed players then you make a point.

My opinion is by no mean saying no to controller support. If it's going to cost Larian a great deal plus with the UI/menus modifications, then by no means do not put it as a priority at this moment. Much can be put on fixing bugs, optimizing, attending to players who have problems launching the game as well as added content.

And my final point is, i don't hate console-gaming. Fact is that their "closed-minded" practices that trying to persuade most developers/publishers to go their platform while holding content exclusively on their own. It's like they are calling everyone for support while they are not going to support you but only their own. It's a selfish and monopolising practice in my opinion.

Again i'm stressing i represent no one in the gaming community but only my own and my own opinion and views. You should as well do not make remarks like "boost sales" based on your opinion simply because you desperately need controller support.

Give me a PC game built for PCs which doesn't cater to console gamers and shoddy ported menu systems that are obtrusive when using a keyboard and mouse.
Could they add this feature in now? Sure, but I'd be rather annoyed if they were to do so when the UI could use some improvements before thinking about controller support. Even after some added polish to the current UI and bug fixes I'd rather they worked on good old fashioned expansions, not modern day micro DLC, to part more of my cash from me.

You mean like Divinity: Original Sin?



How about both? Also don't forget, with a larger market means more money. Given that money makes the world go round, they could end up doing both. And when I say "larger market" I'm not referring to dumbing the game down so that Joe Blow's shit up in Call of Duty can play it, but simply port it to console.

I'm 100% in favor of controller support and a console port. I don't own any working consoles, and the only console games I really play are PS2 games in PCSX2 (PS2 emulator).

As for examples of games that use controller, my favorite example is Champions of Norrath. Of all the RPGs I've played that allow for controller input, it has the best controls. However, it is an action RPG.

I think, ForkTong, you guys should be instead looking at turn based tactical games such as X-Com. I haven't played much of X-Com, but from what I have played, I think its controls are closer to what you guys are looking for. That and Dragon Age: Orgins on console. There is a lot I don't like about how they ported it (they got rid of the isometric perspective is at the top of the list), but I think, if I recall correctly, the controllers were pretty good. Of course, that was many years ago when DA:O first came out for PS3. I haven't played it since. I purchased a PC copy of it since real-time with pause works better with KB/M, but turn based works just as well with a controller, in my opinion, as KB/M does.

I would also like to address some of the comments about console killing PC gaming (which also encompasses Mac and Linux, though not really *BSD, or AIX, or Haiku, or ...). I don't feel as if console is trying to kill PC gaming. It s been mentioned that E3 lacked any of the traditional PC-only genres, and I don't doubt that. However, to say this is evidence that console is killing PC gaming is simply a reactionary response to feeling increasingly isolated from the rest of the gaming community. What is really killing these genres is that others, most notably shooters and action games, are killing RTS and non-Action RPGs. Furthermore, its not that we are a dying breed, but rather that these other types of gamers have grown up around us and in great numbers.

Whom do I speak of? The casual gamer, Joe Blow's shit up in Call of Duty, or Joe Blow for short. Joe blow just wants to kick back and fell like a bad ass without really trying. I myself try to push myself to my limits to get a sense of accomplishment. If I'm not failing, I'm not really playing. These sorts of games, since someone figured out how to make shooters work with a controller, have become the domain of the console which offers a physically more comfortable setting. Hunched over a keyboard with a mouse sitting in an office chair is not as pleasant an experience as stretched out on a couch with a controller resting in my lap. The majority of gamers want to be comfortable both physically and mentally, and that means console and the sorts of games that are published for console. Its not that PC games as we know and love them are dying out, its that we represent a much smaller market.

Not only are real time Strategy and non-action RPG games better with KB/M they are also easier, I have read, to develop on PC so that the smaller market is compensated with lower development cost. As such, we get stuck on PC, while the rest of the casual gamers are happy on console. In this way we end up with an "us versus them" situation. All this together makes it seem as if console is kill PC gaming.

[edit] As a corollary, releasing more games like D:OS onto console will in fact help rather than hurt, as some have suggested, the current situation.

[edit2] Holy shit, just realized this thread was epicly necro'ed. I hope the devs are still open to the idea of a controller an console port.

Under normal circumstances I prefer controller over mouse and keyboard....but I don't see how a controller would be a good idea in the case of DOS even if you managed to get everything on it in the first place. So in the case of DOS I don't think I'm very likely to make use of controller support if implemented.

Exactly! I don't want them to lose direction either. Adding in controller support, rather than porting a console game over to a pc with a clunky UI sounds harmless. However I'd grudge efforts being wasted when I feel time would be better spent else where (additional hotfixes, polish and content).

I could understand if this was a racing game or action RPG but games such as this and FPS games aren't overly suited to gamepad.

Now if someone was to mod in controller support or whatever not taking any time from the Devs then sure, whatever you want.

And I'm saying that with extra revenue from porting the game to console, with adding controller being a first step, they could do both.


Moving around a map is perfectly suited for a controller. Controlling actions in turn-based combat is perfectly suited for a controller. It worked well enough for Dragon Age: Origins, which was a real-time hack-n-slash with pause, which is less suited for controller, but it worked well enough. X-Com works very well with a controller, and its combat is quite similar.

@Archaven: first by first you shouldn't hint me what should be my behavior since that is "my opinion" as well as your is "your opinion" then. On a second line yes I do believe that widening the audience for the game, if not way too much out of range, could lead to only benefts for the game and the support the devs can give to it, included but not limited to bug-fixes, polishing, improvements and added content as well. My point is rather simple, many people are simply avoiding the game since is not in-line with the current vision of gaming, what I mean ? Simply put, I'm an old-time gamer since arcade cabinets, Apple II and 286 rigs and a "proud" PC gamer, I've never had a specific interest in Diablo I until I played it on a PSX, well I found it really briliant and thought on PC it could have been tenfold better, I was wrong, while the graphics were effectively better the controls were painfully unconfortable compared to its "poor" console version...and I didn't ply it for long on a console with a gamepad, I was coming from PC and played it few hours, not enough to get soaccustomed to it to have a chance to blame just the time spent as a reason, it was simply tenfold more enjoyable accordingly to my tastes, this game on PC or consoles with gamepad support can be tenfold more enjoyable the same and a real blast. I dont' comment on your statement blaming me to hint these things -since "I" would rather play it another way than M/K- sorry but this just proves a ceratin lack of maturity in your thoughts and comments by itself, feel free to read ahead in the other answers why, though.

@nstgc: I agree with you 100%, nothing more to add.

@Muz333: I don't think it's in your charge to decide whether or not this game could be suited to be ported or just to get controller support on PC, you have to consider one thing, it's not that you can decide what is right or what it's not for the devs unless you're one of them, are you ?

Is it so embarassing for you this chance ? Are you like "Ohmy, oh-my-God, they've made few millons more and now can afford to make some awesome additional content for this game and polish it even more" ?

You don't get few things:

1) adding a "good" native controller support would not deprive the game in any shape or form, it's NOT they "have" to "change" something for you who want to play it on M/K, it would be just a "plus".

2) opening to consoles, if enough cost-effective, could bring HUGE benefits to the franchise, to the devs and to PC gamers as well in terms of "more revenues" which could be converted in "more support".

3) don't forget that on consoles usually many ones agree to pay more for the "slot in the disk and play" effect, this could compensate an initial not-so-large audience.

4) anyway *could* be a smart move since the lack of actual releases on those platforms.

5) it could help to bring back on the right path people who are not yet completely CoD-kiddies elarging the market for future expansions, additional content, additional chapters and so on.

6) It's not "my" opinion since I would like to have controller support, it's simply I have my eyes wide open on which direction the markets are going and with this I'm absolutely NOT saying it would be a good thing to please the markets DESPITE quality and support to PC community, on contrary, to keep the quality high there is the need of funds which can satisfyingly increse reaching as many customers as possible, despite the localism of a restricted crowd of selfish, so-called, blinders-equipped "PC elitist".

I consider myself a true PC elitist since I bind my satisfaction to the way which gives me more accordingly ro my tastes and not simply signing with blood with mouse and keybord which, to tell it all, were designed to "play" LM, assembler and DOS, the latter not acronym of Divinity: Original Syn but Disk Operating System.

I don't want to seem harsh but there is no point in going against a "pseudo new" trend, I say "pseudo new" since I hooked up my first PC gamepad/controller into the "game port" of a late '80s "rig" (and is not a good reason enough to make me feel a traitor of the "PC-Gaming Master Race").


TL;DR

A game doesn't become "worse" just adding a native gamepad support, no-one will force anyone to use it and chances are it could please more people and improve the revenues leading to more resources at disposal to give more support and more quality to EVERYONE, it's simply a win-win move saw either in the short, middle and long term.

While controller support would be a lot more fun, there are limitations on the console.

I'd like you guys to seriously think about how Divinity 2 suffered for XBox support. I remember Swen talking about a lack of RAM making you reduce the amount of NPCs on the maps.

How much development time was lost making the game play on XBox and on the PC?
How much better could that game have been if it was PC only?

In one of the interviews (think a kickstarter one) the one developer discussed making the Elven Lands and that ended up being scrapped due to deadlines and budget restraints. The end of the game ended up being released a year later too, that was kind of awkward in itself.

Also, the development budget for Skyrim was $80 million dollars, about 59.2 million Euro. The Witcher 2 cost about $10.3 million to make or just over 7.5 million Euro.

D:OS doesn't seem to be as demanding on current hardware as D2 was back when it was released. Also, PS4 and Xbone are relatively new and more powerful than your average computer. I doubt there would be technical issues of that sort.

Not to mention that an alternative UI, while require some skills, is a relatively short piece of code, the same is for binding controls to another source of inputs, if you think well at it, building a M/K interface require almost the same effort it's only a matter of shape and binding.

We don't have to forget that previous-gen consoles had a completely different architecture from PC as well, PPC against x86.

On a side note, D2 was an absolutely amazing game on PC and the interface for gamepad, due to the consoles versions, was (I think) at least 95% ready, why they didn't implement it is still a mystery, the game could have greatly benefit from this.

To give a suggestion to the devs, I hint them to dust-off a PSX and try Diablo on it, I reiterate Dungeon Siege III, despite few weaknesses, it's gamepad-wise nearly a masterpiece and it has coop functions they had to deal with as well.

About various complaints, in about 1 month Diablo III will be released for old and current generation of consoles, you can't say Blizzard isn't a PC juggernaut thus they must be fuckingly stupid to open at console versions...or maybe not ?

D:OS is better than DIII in many ways, I can't see a good reason enough to not jump on the train, if you know what I mean, but there is to hammer the iron while it's red hot, the earlier you move the longer the lifespan, the bigger the success.

Of course, this is just "my" opinion stomping on solid grounds.

EDIT: To be more precise, I do believe that just implementing full controller support would be an enough winning move, console producers HATE that good PC games features controller support since they know which version is far superior and is for this reason Blizzard will most likely never implement a controller support to Diablo III on PC, cause this will "force" the ones who want to play it with a more relaxing gamepad to buy a console, till now D:OS is PC only and going the "port to console" way will probably not be the "best" way, for sure the above reason will apply even to Larian and they would be forced to leave the game without gamepad support on PC, I would say having this support could drag in nearly every DIII disappointed fan at the base of whom wishes there is to play a good isometric RPG with gamepad support, this at the sound of "Blizzard didn't allow us this, fuck Blizzard".

IMHO as always.

I would love controller support for this game. And I think it would work very well given the turn based nature of the game and the isometric view. Just look at how Xcom Enemy Unknown mastered the controller. The only mildly tricky bit would be the inventory screen, but even that would be a pretty easy bit of coding when you get down to brass tax.

But please fix the crashes and the performance issues before you endeavor to do this (if the two would in any way conflict with each other). And the naysayers can go stick their heads in sand. They don't have to use the controller if they don't want to.

I don't think it would be too hard to implement good controller support. A lot of sticky targeting as default with the possibiliry to aim freely. Grid based inventory works too you move one grid / click.

Now should Larian do it, I think it's up to them to decide. If they go for it, it should be done properly and resources need to be spent on this. There are enough bad ports as it is.
Personally I think the current UI needs more work and implementing support for controller could be done at the same time.