Larian Studios
Posted By: WalkingBravado No camp option? - 12/07/14 02:54 PM
In game's like Baldur's Gate you had an option to camp anywhere to reset your spells and fill up your health, how come Divinity doesn't have that option? Is it because of the cooldown system? It would be useful to anyone who doesn't have a cleric or a wizard with healing spells. Sure, you could use potions, but potions are only useful early game and if you need just a little bit more health during a fight.
Posted By: DragonCommander Re: No camp option? - 12/07/14 03:03 PM
I think you can use beds to regain HP
Posted By: Gyson Re: No camp option? - 12/07/14 03:12 PM
In addition to using beds, you used to be able to sit on chairs/benches to restore health. However, the ability to use the latter was removed in late beta. I'm always noticing there are still benches and chairs strategically placed around the wilds though.

I'm not really sure why they did away with heals from sitting. Perhaps they felt it was too easy or convenient. I think it's a shame; a bed is always a rift-travel and short jog away, so it's not like it's difficult to heal. However, it sure does kill the immersion a lot more than simply sitting on a bench near the side of a road, or a chair at the ruins of a house while out on our adventure.
Posted By: Sinthesizer Re: No camp option? - 12/07/14 03:14 PM
You also have foods
Posted By: Jacob Marner Re: No camp option? - 12/07/14 03:21 PM
Or healing spells. Use those.
Posted By: Mr. C Re: No camp option? - 12/07/14 03:56 PM
Why don't they let you buy an effing BEDROLL. Pop it out of your backpack when you need some rest.
Posted By: LordCrash Re: No camp option? - 12/07/14 04:06 PM
Camp is completely unnecessary. You can just heal yourself easily with a level 1 healing spell. A camp/resting system makes only sense in a Vacinian spell system in which you can only cast a given number of spells until the next rest. D:OS is based on cooldowns. Your basic healing spell has cooldown of 10 seconds in real time mode (1 turn). No beds/camps/whatever needed.
Posted By: Tanist Re: No camp option? - 12/07/14 04:21 PM
Originally Posted by LordCrash
Camp is completely unnecessary. You can just heal yourself easily with a level 1 healing spell. A camp/resting system makes only sense in a Vacinian spell system in which you can only cast a given number of spells until the next rest. D:OS is based on cooldowns. Your basic healing spell has cooldown of 10 seconds in real time mode (1 turn). No beds/camps/whatever needed.


Yep, pretty much.

With all of the means to heal yourself in D:OS, it is a non-issue.
Posted By: Gyson Re: No camp option? - 12/07/14 04:24 PM
Originally Posted by LordCrash
Camp is completely unnecessary. You can just heal yourself easily with a level 1 healing spell. A camp/resting system makes only sense in a Vacinian spell system in which you can only cast a given number of spells until the next rest. D:OS is based on cooldowns. Your basic healing spell has cooldown of 10 seconds in real time mode (1 turn). No beds/camps/whatever needed.


That implies everyone should have a spell (or some very specific spells) in a game that is supposed to allow for a little more freedom than that. And, yes, I'm aware there's a Warrior skillbook for healing, but that doesn't mean you should be required to take it.

Obviously the developers felt resting was needed or they wouldn't have included it in the game. I'm not sure why they removed the functionality from chairs and restricted it only to beds. I do think it would be clever if a higher level of crafting allowed players to make bedrolls.
Posted By: LordCrash Re: No camp option? - 12/07/14 04:38 PM
Originally Posted by Gyson
Originally Posted by LordCrash
Camp is completely unnecessary. You can just heal yourself easily with a level 1 healing spell. A camp/resting system makes only sense in a Vacinian spell system in which you can only cast a given number of spells until the next rest. D:OS is based on cooldowns. Your basic healing spell has cooldown of 10 seconds in real time mode (1 turn). No beds/camps/whatever needed.


That implies everyone should have a spell (or some very specific spells) in a game that is supposed to allow for a little more freedom than that. And, yes, I'm aware there's a Warrior skillbook for healing, but that doesn't mean you should be required to take it.

Obviously the developers felt resting was needed or they wouldn't have included it in the game. I'm not sure why they removed the functionality from chairs and restricted it only to beds. I do think it would be clever if a higher level of crafting allowed players to make bedrolls.


Well, healing is a level 1 water spell. In a party of four someone would at some point put one ability point in water magic, don't you think? I mean healing was always an important mechanic in CRPGs and you should have a healer in a well balanced party anyway. If not you have to live with the consequences.

If you pick up Jahan he already knows the healing spell at level 1.

But you can also use potions. I have dozens of potions in my inventory which I never use. The devs put in beds, yes, but that doesn't mean they are needed. It's just another option to use...;)
Posted By: Gyson Re: No camp option? - 12/07/14 04:48 PM
Originally Posted by LordCrash
The devs put in beds, yes, but that doesn't mean they are needed. It's just another option to use...;)

I think that's all people are suggesting.. another option (bedroll, chairs to be restored with the bed function, etc). Something those with more preferable methods of healing can freely ignore.

I don't see the harm in it since a combination of rift-travel, character switching, and teleporter pyramids allows a combination of bed-resting and instant returns to prior locations pretty much anywhere. It just seems like a lot of unnecessary quirky hoops to go through when the same thing can be accomplished using a bedroll (and have it be a whole lot more immersing than playing musical chairs with your icons). I could understand not offering something like bedrolls if "resting for health" was actually prevented while adventuring, but it's not.
Posted By: LordCrash Re: No camp option? - 12/07/14 05:07 PM
Originally Posted by Gyson
Originally Posted by LordCrash
The devs put in beds, yes, but that doesn't mean they are needed. It's just another option to use...;)

I think that's all people are suggesting.. another option (bedroll, chairs to be restored with the bed function, etc). Something those with more preferable methods of healing can freely ignore.

I don't see the harm in it since a combination of rift-travel, character switching, and teleporter pyramids allows a combination of bed-resting and instant returns to prior locations pretty much anywhere. It just seems like a lot of unnecessary quirky hoops to go through when the same thing can be accomplished using a bedroll (and have it be a whole lot more immersing than playing musical chairs with your icons). I could understand not offering something like bedrolls if "resting for health" was actually prevented while adventuring, but it's not.


Well, tbh the initial post of the OP indicated that he hasn't even understand yet that the spell system is based on cooldowns. I have nothing against healing in beds in general... wink
Posted By: Halcyon Re: No camp option? - 12/07/14 06:00 PM
Healing from benches and chairs in the wild would be great. Or simply an ability to rest or camp. It's TEDIOUS wasting a few minutes healing up characters after a battle casting the same spell over and over, waiting for it to cool down each time. NOT FUN. So please, Larian, a rest or camp option for us who are practical and like to spend our time on FUN things, and keep the TEDIOUS post-battle healing for those who enjoy TEDIUM. smile
Posted By: Mr. C Re: No camp option? - 12/07/14 06:17 PM
Healing on the fly needs to be a bit of a pain in the ass to maintain the value of spells and abilities that heal... but endlessly guzzling down potions, food, and backtracking to the nearest bed is just too much.
Posted By: Gyson Re: No camp option? - 12/07/14 06:48 PM
I don't know, aren't healing spells more valuable in-combat rather than out of combat where other objects (like the beds) already exist?
Posted By: Tanist Re: No camp option? - 12/07/14 08:03 PM
Originally Posted by LordCrash
Originally Posted by Gyson
Originally Posted by LordCrash
Camp is completely unnecessary. You can just heal yourself easily with a level 1 healing spell. A camp/resting system makes only sense in a Vacinian spell system in which you can only cast a given number of spells until the next rest. D:OS is based on cooldowns. Your basic healing spell has cooldown of 10 seconds in real time mode (1 turn). No beds/camps/whatever needed.


That implies everyone should have a spell (or some very specific spells) in a game that is supposed to allow for a little more freedom than that. And, yes, I'm aware there's a Warrior skillbook for healing, but that doesn't mean you should be required to take it.

Obviously the developers felt resting was needed or they wouldn't have included it in the game. I'm not sure why they removed the functionality from chairs and restricted it only to beds. I do think it would be clever if a higher level of crafting allowed players to make bedrolls.


Well, healing is a level 1 water spell. In a party of four someone would at some point put one ability point in water magic, don't you think? I mean healing was always an important mechanic in CRPGs and you should have a healer in a well balanced party anyway. If not you have to live with the consequences.

If you pick up Jahan he already knows the healing spell at level 1.

But you can also use potions. I have dozens of potions in my inventory which I never use. The devs put in beds, yes, but that doesn't mean they are needed. It's just another option to use...;)


Yep, if you don't have healing spells, you have potions, you have beds you can use in various places, etc...

Personally, I would have liked to see a lot more difficulty in this area. Healing shouldn't be so easy to come by. In fact, I think healing is easier in this game than it was in games like Baldur's gate. In Baldur's gate, hitting rest would often result in an ambush that if you were too low on health ended in the death of your party.
Posted By: Halcyon Re: No camp option? - 12/07/14 08:07 PM
Originally Posted by Gyson
I don't know, aren't healing spells more valuable in-combat rather than out of combat where other objects (like the beds) already exist?


Exactly, out of combat - having to spend time healing up is ONLY tedium. It adds nothing to the experience except function as a time sink.
Posted By: Gyson Re: No camp option? - 12/07/14 09:09 PM
Originally Posted by Tanist
Originally Posted by LordCrash
Originally Posted by Gyson
Originally Posted by LordCrash
Camp is completely unnecessary. You can just heal yourself easily with a level 1 healing spell. A camp/resting system makes only sense in a Vacinian spell system in which you can only cast a given number of spells until the next rest. D:OS is based on cooldowns. Your basic healing spell has cooldown of 10 seconds in real time mode (1 turn). No beds/camps/whatever needed.


That implies everyone should have a spell (or some very specific spells) in a game that is supposed to allow for a little more freedom than that. And, yes, I'm aware there's a Warrior skillbook for healing, but that doesn't mean you should be required to take it.

Obviously the developers felt resting was needed or they wouldn't have included it in the game. I'm not sure why they removed the functionality from chairs and restricted it only to beds. I do think it would be clever if a higher level of crafting allowed players to make bedrolls.


Well, healing is a level 1 water spell. In a party of four someone would at some point put one ability point in water magic, don't you think? I mean healing was always an important mechanic in CRPGs and you should have a healer in a well balanced party anyway. If not you have to live with the consequences.

If you pick up Jahan he already knows the healing spell at level 1.

But you can also use potions. I have dozens of potions in my inventory which I never use. The devs put in beds, yes, but that doesn't mean they are needed. It's just another option to use...;)


Yep, if you don't have healing spells, you have potions, you have beds you can use in various places, etc...

Personally, I would have liked to see a lot more difficulty in this area. Healing shouldn't be so easy to come by. In fact, I think healing is easier in this game than it was in games like Baldur's gate. In Baldur's gate, hitting rest would often result in an ambush that if you were too low on health ended in the death of your party.

Even if Divinity did allow for random encounters, save-scumming prevents random threats like that from being effective here. Interrupted sleep > reload and try again.

However, the desire for a more dangerous rest system is all well and good, but the fact is it's already easy to heal up outside of combat. So, the request is to just reduce the tedium and to increase the immersion. Crafting or purchasing a reusable bedroll, laying it out in the environment, and resting on it is (to at least some of us) a more immersing (and far less tedious) experience than..

Step 1) Rift-travel with part of injured party to waypoint with nearest bed.
Step 2) Use bed.
Step 3) Use teleport pyramid to return to waiting party members back at original site.
Step 4) Rift-travel with remaining injured party to waypoint with nearest bed.
Step 5) Use bed.
Step 6) Use teleport pyramid to return to waiting party members back at original site.

I mean, if that's what we have to do, then that's what we have to do. It would just be nice if the process were a lot more cleaner and a lot less dependent on quick-travel gimmicks (for those not investing in potions, spells, or food).

In other words, people are seeking a quality of life improvement that neither introduces an end-result that can't be achieved already nor forces itself on those who prefer alternate methods of healing. Pretty innocent request all around.
Posted By: Sykar Re: No camp option? - 12/07/14 09:31 PM
Resting was much more than just refreshing your spells in BG. It was essential since you got tired and got cumulative mali for staying awake too long usually around 24 hours modified by constitution statistic.
Posted By: Tanist Re: No camp option? - 12/07/14 09:43 PM
...
Posted By: Halcyon Re: No camp option? - 12/07/14 09:49 PM
Originally Posted by Tanist
Originally Posted by Gyson
...


Don't talk to me. Piss off Troll.


Irony.
Posted By: Tanist Re: No camp option? - 12/07/14 10:20 PM
Originally Posted by Halcyon
Originally Posted by Tanist
Originally Posted by Gyson
...


Don't talk to me. Piss off Troll.


Irony.


Have you read his responses in this forum? He has picked fights with multiple people all through beta. Each time he follows a pattern. Makes an argument, then defends it with fallacious arguments and attacks. If anyone pressures him in kind, he fakes the victim and you go in circles dealing with his "innocence" narcissism.

Yeah, but go ahead and come late to the party and defend ignorantly. /boggle
Posted By: Gyson Re: No camp option? - 12/07/14 10:25 PM
Originally Posted by Tanist
Originally Posted by Halcyon
Originally Posted by Tanist
Originally Posted by Gyson
...


Don't talk to me. Piss off Troll.


Irony.


Have you read his responses in this forum? He has picked fights with multiple people all through beta.

By that Tanist means four people, with a list that includes himself and Hiver making up 50% of that roster. wink Although to Hiver's credit I think I actually had a pleasant exchange with him in another thread recently! It's as if that is actually a possibility when you don't start off the exchange with "Don't talk to me. Piss off Troll.". Go figure.

He also apparently can't be bothered to use the "ignore" function or something, even though he once announced to the entire forum that he was going to do exactly that. /shrug
Posted By: Mr. C Re: No camp option? - 12/07/14 10:40 PM
Bedrolls could ideally be crafted items. I mean there's pillows laying all over... some needle, some thread, some loose cloth, put in a pillow and voila... bedroll.
Posted By: Songbird Re: No camp option? - 12/07/14 10:59 PM
I remember seeing an NPC move a bed...

With enough strength, you can move and pick up furniture in the game as well. Have you tried dragging a bed into your inventory?
Posted By: Tanist Re: No camp option? - 12/07/14 11:03 PM
Originally Posted by Mr. C
Bedrolls could ideally be crafted items. I mean there's pillows laying all over... some needle, some thread, some loose cloth, put in a pillow and voila... bedroll.


Ok fine. You throw out a bed roll. It only suits one person (same as the beds do unless they are larger) and then you click to lie on it. Now, as you are lying on it, it ticks up your health slowly like it does in the inns, etc...

Is that what you are asking for? If so, I honestly don't see a problem with that considering the numerous others healing sources there are in this game. It isn't like you being able to do that is an advantage and if you tied it to crafting, well... there you go.

So.. good point. I can agree.
Posted By: Tanist Re: No camp option? - 12/07/14 11:05 PM
Originally Posted by Songbird
I remember seeing an NPC move a bed...

With enough strength, you can move and pick up furniture in the game as well. Have you tried dragging a bed into your inventory?


There has to be a means to do it. I mean, I have read people taking chests, filling them up and stacking them in another chest, etc... in order to take advantage of using the chest as a weapon with telekinesis (ie items with more weight do more damage).
Posted By: Gyson Re: No camp option? - 12/07/14 11:19 PM
Originally Posted by Songbird
I remember seeing an NPC move a bed...

With enough strength, you can move and pick up furniture in the game as well. Have you tried dragging a bed into your inventory?

I have tried to move a bed before. smile I don't think strength was the issue.. it didn't act like it was going to let me do anything other than "use" it. I wouldn't be surprised if there are some beds out there that are flagged differently, though.
Posted By: Halcyon Re: No camp option? - 13/07/14 02:59 AM
What I don't understand is the issue of "abuse" or gaining an "advantage". The game is moddable.. We could twink our starting characters to high heaven. Make health potions that never disappear, etc. There is no notion of unfair advantage in a single player game. There is just the player and what they choose to do - either play fair or break the experience for themselves, unless they enjoy that type of thing.
Posted By: Mr. C Re: No camp option? - 13/07/14 09:47 AM
Originally Posted by Tanist
Originally Posted by Mr. C
Bedrolls could ideally be crafted items. I mean there's pillows laying all over... some needle, some thread, some loose cloth, put in a pillow and voila... bedroll.


Ok fine. You throw out a bed roll. It only suits one person (same as the beds do unless they are larger) and then you click to lie on it. Now, as you are lying on it, it ticks up your health slowly like it does in the inns, etc...

Is that what you are asking for? If so, I honestly don't see a problem with that considering the numerous others healing sources there are in this game. It isn't like you being able to do that is an advantage and if you tied it to crafting, well... there you go.

So.. good point. I can agree.


The key here is effectively "magicless" characters. Some of the things they do may straight bend the laws of physics and some needs a bit of imagination...

But I am much better able to use a "bedroll" to describe camping than I am able to use "cast minor heal" to describe camping.
Posted By: TonyD Re: No camp option? - 13/07/14 09:54 AM
Originally Posted by Tanist
Originally Posted by Gyson
...


Don't talk to me. Piss off Troll.

I have seen this far too many times - you are the one coming across as the troll.
Posted By: Tanist Re: No camp option? - 13/07/14 12:27 PM
Originally Posted by TonyD
Originally Posted by Tanist
Originally Posted by Gyson
...


Don't talk to me. Piss off Troll.

I have seen this far too many times - you are the one coming across as the troll.


Really? How do you figure that? I don't discuss with Gyson anymore. I even explained to him that his continued responses to me will be of the same, that I won't be roped into another drawn out argument of fallacies of his. So, as long as he doesn't respond to me, we have no issues.

A troll seeks to create conflict. They thrive on it. They are like a devious child poking a cat with a stick to see it howl. I ask for no conflict, the ball is entirely in his court. I have asked him to stop responding to me and it should be as simple as that if he wishes to avoid trolling. Remember, Gyson is the one with the stick. If you see those responses often, it isn't because I am the problem here, it is because Gyson wishes to see that conflict.

So think again who is the troll here, who is the one seeking conflict. /shrug
Posted By: Jito463 Re: No camp option? - 13/07/14 12:31 PM
Originally Posted by Tanist
Originally Posted by TonyD
Originally Posted by Tanist
Originally Posted by Gyson
...


Don't talk to me. Piss off Troll.

I have seen this far too many times - you are the one coming across as the troll.


Really? How do you figure that? I don't discuss with Gyson anymore. I even explained to him that his continued responses to me will be of the same, that I won't be roped into another drawn out argument of fallacies of his. So, as long as he doesn't respond to me, we have no issues.

A troll seeks to create conflict. They thrive on it. They are like a devious child poking a cat with a stick to see it howl. I ask for no conflict, the ball is entirely in his court. I have asked him to stop responding to me and it should be as simple as that if he wishes to avoid trolling. Remember, Gyson is the one with the stick. If you see those responses often, it isn't because I am the problem here, it is because Gyson wishes to see that conflict.

So think again who is the troll here, who is the one seeking conflict. /shrug


By refusing to put him on ignore, and constantly responding with a "troll" comment to everything he says, it seems that YOU are the one seeking conflict.
Posted By: Halcyon Re: No camp option? - 13/07/14 12:44 PM
Originally Posted by Tanist

So think again who is the troll here, who is the one seeking conflict. /shrug


You are the one seeking conflict. You have no right to demand he does not respond to your posts, especially when done courteously. You should ignore his posts instead of using insulting language.

If you keep up this poor form, you'll only be painting yourself in a bad light. Which is too bad, since you have some intelligent things to say otherwise. Whether or not people agree with them smile
Posted By: Tanist Re: No camp option? - 13/07/14 12:46 PM
Originally Posted by Jito463

By refusing to put him on ignore, and constantly responding with a "troll" comment to everything he says, it seems that YOU are the one seeking conflict.


It is done. He is on ignore. Though wait for it... he will troll me by proxy of others.
Posted By: Tanist Re: No camp option? - 13/07/14 12:47 PM
Originally Posted by Halcyon
Originally Posted by Tanist

So think again who is the troll here, who is the one seeking conflict. /shrug


You are the one seeking conflict. You have no right to demand he does not respond to your posts, especially when done courteously. You should ignore his posts instead of using insulting language.

If you keep up this poor form, you'll only be painting yourself in a bad light. Which is too bad, since you have some intelligent things to say otherwise. Whether or not people agree with them smile


He is on ignore, but don't say I didn't tell you so when he starts injecting into conversations trying to dismiss me via proxy.
Posted By: Jito463 Re: No camp option? - 13/07/14 12:50 PM
Here's a tip for you, Tanist. I'm not going to argue with you whether he's the troll or you are, I don't give a hoot. If you think he is a troll, ignore him. Ignore everything he says, and it will all blow over. As it is, all you've done is turned a petty dispute into a public brawl. Take it to PM next time. The rest of us don't care about your squabbles.
Posted By: Gyson Re: No camp option? - 13/07/14 02:37 PM
Originally Posted by Tanist
Originally Posted by TonyD
Originally Posted by Tanist
Originally Posted by Gyson
...


Don't talk to me. Piss off Troll.

I have seen this far too many times - you are the one coming across as the troll.


Really? How do you figure that? I don't discuss with Gyson anymore. I even explained to him that his continued responses to me will be of the same, that I won't be roped into another drawn out argument of fallacies of his. So, as long as he doesn't respond to me, we have no issues.

A troll seeks to create conflict. They thrive on it. They are like a devious child poking a cat with a stick to see it howl. I ask for no conflict, the ball is entirely in his court. I have asked him to stop responding to me and it should be as simple as that if he wishes to avoid trolling. Remember, Gyson is the one with the stick. If you see those responses often, it isn't because I am the problem here, it is because Gyson wishes to see that conflict.

So think again who is the troll here, who is the one seeking conflict. /shrug

You made a big show of announcing to the forums that you were going to place me on ignore months ago (the first time we disagreed about something), and I suggest you actually follow through this time. Because if we're both participating in a discussion and you make a comment that I disagree with, feel is flawed or inaccurate, or even agree with, there's a chance I'm going to comment on it - because that's how discussions work.

You don't get a free pass to say whatever you desire without attracting responses just because you tell people not to talk to you. You're going for the equivalent of a "do not allow responses to this post" button, and it doesn't exist. Public comments attract public responses.
Posted By: Soylent Re: No camp option? - 13/07/14 08:58 PM
Can we put chairs into our inventory? "Phew, hang on, I need a breather. Lemme just assemble this stool I grabbed from the inn..."
Posted By: Gyson Re: No camp option? - 13/07/14 09:27 PM
Originally Posted by Soylent
Can we put chairs into our inventory? "Phew, hang on, I need a breather. Lemme just assemble this stool I grabbed from the inn..."


No, chairs won't go into your inventory. And while we used to be able to regenerate health while using chairs and beds, it was eventually changed to be beds only.
Posted By: TonyD Re: No camp option? - 13/07/14 10:42 PM
Originally Posted by Tanist
Originally Posted by TonyD
Originally Posted by Tanist
Originally Posted by Gyson
...


Don't talk to me. Piss off Troll.

I have seen this far too many times - you are the one coming across as the troll.


Really? How do you figure that? I don't discuss with Gyson anymore. I even explained to him that his continued responses to me will be of the same, that I won't be roped into another drawn out argument of fallacies of his. So, as long as he doesn't respond to me, we have no issues.

A troll seeks to create conflict. They thrive on it. They are like a devious child poking a cat with a stick to see it howl. I ask for no conflict, the ball is entirely in his court. I have asked him to stop responding to me and it should be as simple as that if he wishes to avoid trolling. Remember, Gyson is the one with the stick. If you see those responses often, it isn't because I am the problem here, it is because Gyson wishes to see that conflict.

So think again who is the troll here, who is the one seeking conflict. /shrug


By telling them to 'piss off' whatever they say, sensible or not, I think you needed to look in the mirror. Anyway, you say you have now ignored them so maybe we can get back to the topic at hand.

That said, some sort of camping out would be nice to see as an option, but maybe when they bring in the day/night cycle (if they do).
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