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Posted By: Cameron9428 Glass Cannon Without Lone Wolf. - 26/07/14 06:54 PM
Is it worth choosing the Glass Cannot talent on every member of a full party? From what I understand the penalty to vitality in hard difficulty is very steep. I wanted to make a party of 2 mages and 2 warriors, all utilizing Glass Cannon...but will they drop like flies?
Posted By: Cameron9428 Re: Glass Cannon Without Lone Wolf. - 26/07/14 08:02 PM
Wow lots of spamming o_O
Posted By: dirigible Re: Glass Cannon Without Lone Wolf. - 26/07/14 08:08 PM
Glass Cannon is currently fairly overpowered. It's worth getting on every single party member, no matter what.

Just drop points in Constitution after getting it and you'll have boatloads of AP, and decent enough HP.

Posted By: Cameron9428 Re: Glass Cannon Without Lone Wolf. - 26/07/14 08:11 PM
Good to know, thanks dirigible!
Posted By: ScrotieMcB Re: Glass Cannon Without Lone Wolf. - 27/07/14 04:57 AM
I disagree if you're talking Hard difficulty. On Normal difficulty, dirigible is correct, but Hard punishes Glass Cannon more than Normal does, from multiple angles.

In Hard, however, you still want to consider Glass Cannon for characters who can afford to really stack Constitution (not every build can), or can take Picture of Health and stack Man-at-Arms. And for those who can do both, you're kind of crazy not to take it.
Posted By: dirigible Re: Glass Cannon Without Lone Wolf. - 27/07/14 05:29 AM
If I didn't take GC and put points into Constitution, I would be putting those points into Speed instead. CG+Constitution is just so much more efficient. The health you get per point of Constitution is pretty large, and you'll wind up with as much HP, and more AP overall.

Then again, AP are like cocaine to me.
Posted By: Fellgnome Re: Glass Cannon Without Lone Wolf. - 27/07/14 07:29 AM
Yes, it's worth taking on anyone lone wolf or not.

Glass Cannon is probably too much for too little trade-off. On paper it seems like a big hit to survivability but in practice you're gaining so much AP that you can skip speed and sink points in con to make up the lowered health.

Extra AP also allows you to keep more defensive buffs active, and of course killing enemies faster means less incoming damage as well.
Posted By: eidolon Re: Glass Cannon Without Lone Wolf. - 27/07/14 07:53 AM
You should put Glass Cannon on every char regardless the difficulty setting.
You will have to invest heavily in CON (same level as SPD, 2 higher for LW chars), so you will still have more than enough HP.
Lets say you have a warrior with 9 AP, you use 2 AP to get next to an enemy and can use an ability (other than Flurry) or 2 1h attacks.
In the same scenario, a warrior with GC will still have enough AP after moving to cast Rage, Flurry and attack with a 2h weapon.
Posted By: ScrotieMcB Re: Glass Cannon Without Lone Wolf. - 27/07/14 08:24 AM
Okay, here's my radical idea for making Glass Cannon a little less powerful:

1. Starting AP formula changed to Perception + RoundDown(Speed/2)
8 Speed and 5 Perception = 9 Starting AP (not 8)
5 Speed and 8 Perception = 10 Starting AP (not 8)


2. Recovery AP formula changed to 2 + RoundUp(Speed/2)
5 Speed = 5 Recovery AP (not 6)
7 Speed = 6 Recovery AP (not 7)


Overall, this would make pumping Speed and Perception more viable, and give Glass Cannon less to double if Speed isn't boosted (doubling a 2 rather than a 4).
Posted By: Shaki Re: Glass Cannon Without Lone Wolf. - 27/07/14 12:14 PM
On hard, glass cannon is very punishing. My 20 lvl Jahan had ~300 hp with glass cannon on hard, and pretty much any enemy was able to one-shot him. One bad move, and you have to use res scroll or reload save. AP bonus is nice in some situations, but as this game is ridicolously easy anyway, I won't take this talent again. After finishing Cyseal, you will probably never need more than 2-3 turns to finish all enemies except bosses. Taking glass cannon is only an annoyance, you will finish some fights little faster, but you'll need to be far more careful.
Posted By: zorp Re: Glass Cannon Without Lone Wolf. - 27/07/14 02:42 PM
I only tested it with lone wolf on Hard, but I would say that it is allways worth it. And that is because vitality is not reduced by 50% at all. Only base vitality is reduced, and vitality from gear is not reduced at all.

I had 2 lone wolf both with 10 in constitution and both with 6 base points and 4 from gear.

The one with glass cannon had 1158 in vitality ond the one without had 1642. That is only 30% reduction in vitality, but twice as many recovery AP. (That was on normal before I changed to Hard)

Don't put points in to constitution, put them in other attributes and focus on getting constitution from gear.

And of cause the difference in health between glass cannon and not will become smaller the higher level you get to because you will find more gear with higher constitution additions +2.


In some fights with many enemies you might need to put out a decoy (spider) to soak up attacks until you get your high recovery AP's and can thin out their ranks. But I would say that glass cannon is allways a given (you might wait until level 11, so you have collected enough gear with constitution points, before you select it if you want it easier).
Posted By: dirigible Re: Glass Cannon Without Lone Wolf. - 27/07/14 03:37 PM
I don't think GC needs a complicated revamp to fix it. Simply,

Change it to give a flat recovery AP and max AP bonus of 4
It makes Constitution 50% less effective

This lowers their hp, gives them a sizable bonus to AP, encourages the player to keep dumping points into speed, and discourages them from pumping their constitution back up.
Posted By: Hassat Hunter Re: Glass Cannon Without Lone Wolf. - 27/07/14 10:25 PM
I personally would only put it on Mages. My 2 Glass Cannon mages are very fragile (even on Normal). Ricochet from Rangers usually instakills them (again, on easy).

Then again, I totally pumped INT to 25+ (with gear obviously) rather than CON.
Posted By: Fellgnome Re: Glass Cannon Without Lone Wolf. - 28/07/14 03:18 PM
Originally Posted by dirigible
I don't think GC needs a complicated revamp to fix it. Simply,

Change it to give a flat recovery AP and max AP bonus of 4
It makes Constitution 50% less effective

This lowers their hp, gives them a sizable bonus to AP, encourages the player to keep dumping points into speed, and discourages them from pumping their constitution back up.


I think you're right that it doesn't need a complicated revamp. I think your revamp isn't quite the obvious direction to take it though.

Here's a real simple fix:

Glass Cannon:

+ X% damage dealt
+ Y% damage taken

X and Y could tuned to whatever seems reasonable. Point is removing AP from the equation. Almost any large AP boost is always going to be a no brainer talent unless it has ridiculous downsides.

Since extra AP is much more than just offensive power, it never made sense for the talent. It allows a player to use extra AP to do more both offensively and defensively.

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