Larian Studios
Posted By: tx3000 Deciding to be an archer - READ THIS FIRST - 05/08/14 05:31 PM
Sorry to all you archery fans out there but there is no way anyone can seriously try and say Archery is good. You can show me videos of an archer kicking ass and I'll still tell you Archery is a bad class.

Here is why:
1. LIMITED AMMUNITION
IMHO Any class that can run out of ammunition is bad it's like a mage running out of mana).

2. THE AMOUNT OF AMMUNITION THAT GETS MADE:
Base Arrows once made are infinite, and while it's understandable why there aren't infinite Special arrows, Only being able to craft 1 arrowhead/arrow out of 1 element is bullshit. The amount of special arrowheads/arrows you can craft/find/recover should be a result 1-2 depending on your luck status. Or at least have a talent/skill/blacksmithing level that allows you to create 2 special arrowheads when crafting one. That way at least archery is a little better.

3. SPECIAL ARROWS DAMAGE ARE GARBAGE
I'm sorry but there is no reason a normal arrow shot out of a normal bow to be doing 3-4 times more damage than a special arrow shot out of the same bow. Special arrows should always do more than normal arrows, and they just don't.

4. HITS AND MISSES
There is no reason why an Archer with a DEX of over 11 whether in a stance or not, only have a 49% or less chance to hit every time. That 49% goes even lower when encountering enemies that have saving bonuses. And this makes special arrows even worse than they already are.

5. DURABILITY ON BOWS/CROSSBOWS
Restricting how many arrows you have is one thing, but to make durability get used on those arrows is also bullshit. The only time durability should ever effect a bow/crossbow is when using Normal arrows

It's not about showing archery in action, the class has way, way too many restrictions that no other class has, and just cannot hold up the damage that needs to be done in battles.
Posted By: Armakoir Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 05:51 PM
1. Technically, the bow never runs out of ammo.

2. There are many avenues for crafting special ammo besides essences, which I believe is what you're eluding to.

3. If I'm not mistaken, hitting an enemy with a special arrow inflicts piercing damage and the special arrow effect. At least I know it is this way with some special arrows.

4. Perception helps with accuracy.

5. I would think a flaming arrow, or one dripping with poison, would do more to the bow itself than a normal arrow.


As for the archery "class" as a whole, I haven't played a dedicated archer so I can't comment. But I do know the enemy archers are a huge pain sometimes.

Edit: I would say, though, that if archer do lack DPTurn, they make up for it in utility and versatility.
Posted By: Shadeofnight Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 06:15 PM
Hello,

I love the Archery class, and I believe you almost have to be one by default on at least one of the people in your party.

Arrows are unlimited (they never run out). They get special arrows they can use for special affects as needed (charm arrows can rock).

But the core reason why I made an archer:

I need one person in the party with a high perception. The only real class that gets anything out of a high perception is an archer. So a few points in Dex, and a 15 Perception (via gear and points), and I have a mini killing machine with amazing versatility.

I guess you can play without anyone in the group having a high Perception, or you could put Perception on another class (with no real benefits other than traps and hidden objects), but for me personally I like to have everything I do play two roles, and if I need high Perception, why not use it for something (like archery).

With my high Perception my to hit is almost always 100% (I like never miss). If you only have 50% to hit, you are not building your archer correctly. A high perception is way more important to an archer than a high Dex. A little more damage from a high dex means nothing if you never hit.

With that said, my Archer currently has a 15 Perception and a 13 Dex (and doing just fine).

Just my 2 cents smile
Posted By: tarasis Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 06:24 PM
Originally Posted by tx3000
3. SPECIAL ARROWS DAMAGE ARE GARBAGE
I'm sorry but there is no reason a normal arrow shot out of a normal bow to be doing 3-4 times more damage than a special arrow shot out of the same bow. Special arrows should always do more than normal arrows, and they just don't.


I see no issue with this, the arrow has an added benefit to it, so in my mind it obviously means that the arrow doesn't hit/do as much damage as an non special arrow would do.

Originally Posted by tx3000

4. HITS AND MISSES
There is no reason why an Archer with a DEX of over 11 whether in a stance or not, only have a 49% or less chance to hit every time. That 49% goes even lower when encountering enemies that have saving bonuses. And this makes special arrows even worse than they already are.


There is something wrong with your speccing then. I only ever get that low when they are quite far from me. If they are prone you always get 100%. Also you can take skills that can improve your accuracy at the cost of an extra Action Point (or Damage too)

Originally Posted by tx3000

5. DURABILITY ON BOWS/CROSSBOWS
Restricting how many arrows you have is one thing, but to make durability get used on those arrows is also bullshit. The only time durability should ever effect a bow/crossbow is when using Normal arrows


Makes sense to have durability used regardless of arrow type, you are still using the bow be it a normal arrow or a special explosive arrow.
Posted By: recluce Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 06:37 PM
I would disagree, mostly. Archers suck a bit in the early game.

Once properly build up, they may save your butt. As an example, I am thinking of the Night Cap mushrooms in a certain area of Hunter's Edge. They are basically impervious to magic of any kind, but a good archer or melee fighter will do them in.

At level 16 and dexterity 11, my archer does reliably around 200 damage per shot (Heartseeker bow with elemental damage and Tenebrium damage), two shots per round. With "Barrage", it is around 350 damage. Nothing to sneeze at.

Like all other classes, an archer is not the answer to all combat situations - that is obvious.
Posted By: tx3000 Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 06:53 PM
Everyone replying is totally missing the whole point archery is the only class that is far below playable standards when compared to all the other classes. Archery is the only class that can't take out enemies the same way any other class can.

While no class can deal with everything, every class can almost kill enemies in 2-3 hits and do significant damage when it does hit with just about any attack they use, but archery takes between 6-10 hits on any attack due to all the missed hits, the very low damage on Special arrows, and just the all around incapability being equal with all the other classes in the game.

People are also taking a high level archer and applying it to what I'm talking about which cannot be done. I'm talking about how no other class struggle in combat throughout the entire first map. 1/2 way through the first map is more than enough time for Archery to pick up from being bad and it doesn't. everything I posted above that happened not only happened into the second map of the game with every battle I ran into, but has happened with every single archer build I've used.

Classes that cannot get over the hump of being bad 1/2 through the first map are unusable because it's just a foreshadow of how it will always be. I have never seen an archer do well at all to the extent people are saying they get them to be.

NOW ON TO THE OVERALL ISSUES

1. Arrows are only unlimited FOR REGULAR ARROWS.

2. When it comes to making special arrows you should be getting 2 for 1 due to how expensive it gets, and how limited the amount of arrows you wind up having.

3. There is no way to be speced wrong for hitting when it comes to having 11 dex. and enemies they are never at 100% chance to hit whenevr I am able to hit them in an attack...I've never seen 100% ever. Besides If you have 11 dex a 49% chance to hit shouldn't even be showing up at all, if you have 11 dex and you can actually reach them with an attack, then I can see 80% but not under 49%.

4. You shouldn't have to get better aim from perception with 11 dex - That's an excuse

5. You shouldn't have to get items to improve your aim at 11 dex. at all that's an excuse.

6. Durability on a bow/crossbow should only go down IF AND ONLY IF you actually hit the target. You shouldn't be getting punished on top of already being punished.

6. Special arrows are anything other than a NORMAL ARROW. The game makes it out to be that SPECIAL arrows are an actual type called "SPECIAL" and do some specialized damage no other arrow type in the game does. And every type Special arrows should always do significantly more damage overall than a regular one and that is simply not the case.

I have never seen special arrows do anywhere near as much damage as regular arrow ever. I did a save reload test on the same enemy, and every time I hit the same enemy with a regular arrow it took out 1/2 - 3/4 of it's health, all elemental arrows only took up less than - 1/4 of their health and that was only due to some of the damage on the arrow itself, the elemental damage was practically useless because half the enemies in the game never get affected by the elemental damage from arrows. This was a direct result of the reload test I did.


Archery is a complete mess and doesn't work anywhere near enough to be usable in my experience with it. If those changes I said were made to archery then at least the class would be able to compete with all the other classes. But right now it's simply way too restrictive.
Posted By: tarasis Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 07:09 PM
Originally Posted by tx3000
Everyone replying is totally missing the whole point:


Not really, we just don't see things the same way you do.

Yes normal arrows are unlimited, yes special arrows aren't. In some respects I'd rather normal arrows weren't unlimited but then you'd end up with the stupidity of the Infinity Engine games where you have a character with an inventory full of only norma arrows. I don't see an issue with getting only 1 or 2 special arrows when making them, maybe a max of 3-5 _might_ be better but I don't see it as an issue. (Especially as my bow does additional fire damage on its on)

Originally Posted by tx3000
3. There is no way to be speced wrong for hitting when it comes to having 11 dex. and enemies they are never at 100% chance to hit whenevr I am able to hit them in an attack...I've never seen 100% ever. Besides If you have 11 dex a 49% chance to hit shouldn't even be showing up at all, if you have 11 dex and you can actually reach them with an attack, then I can see 80% but not under 49%.


My character has 9 Dex and 7 perception, and I've had anything from 40% (monster like 25"+ away) up to like 98% to something much closer, and as I said you'll get 100% firing on a prone character

Originally Posted by tx3000

4. You shouldn't have to get better aim from perception with 11 dex - That's an excuse


Being able to see better, being able to perceive gaps in armor or weak spots? If your blind as fuck but are very dextrous the chances of you hitting something 100% of the time is going to be minimal.

Originally Posted by tx3000

6. Durability on a bow/crossbow should only go down IF AND ONLY IF you actually hit the target. You shouldn't be getting punished on top of already being punished.


Hit or miss you still fired the bow. Durability should still be affected. This isn't like swing a sword through the air and not hitting anything.
Posted By: Elwyn Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 07:11 PM
Your chance to hit with ranged weapons is determined by perception and not by dexterity.
Posted By: tx3000 Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 07:25 PM
Originally Posted by Elwyn
Your chance to hit with ranged weapons is determined by perception and not by dexterity.

You're wrong, here is what dex says (Scerenshot right out of the game)

[Linked Image]

Also, the distance I've used an archer at didn't matter, because I've always had extremely poor hit chance even while right next to an enemy.

Nothing I've done makes an archer effective.
Posted By: Armakoir Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 07:26 PM
Quote
4. You shouldn't have to get better aim from perception with 11 dex - That's an excuse

Not an excuse, just how the code is written.

Which, btw, I really like. I like how accuracy was been split into two attributes. I wish str and dex worked together for melee weapons.

Quote
6. Durability on a bow/crossbow should only go down IF AND ONLY IF you actually hit the target.

Why?

Quote
And every type Special arrows should always do significantly more damage overall than a regular one...

Why?

Quote
There is no reason why an Archer with a DEX of over 11 whether in a stance or not, only have a 49% or less chance to hit every time.

Why?
Posted By: Brian Wright Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 07:27 PM
My archer is the only character in my party who I keep toying with swapping out for something else. He's really not pulling his weight vs the other classes. It feels like you really need to be an archer *and* something else.
Posted By: Armakoir Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 07:29 PM
Quote
Nothing I've done makes an archer effective.

What level is your archer and what level is the enemy? Also, which specific enemy is it? Lastly, what difficulty setting are you playing on?
Posted By: Wizard1200 Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 07:34 PM
Originally Posted by Elwyn
Your chance to hit with ranged weapons is determined by perception and not by dexterity.


I think that this is unbalanced, because bows and crossbows are the only weapons that require two attributes. If the game would have no magic it would be balanced, because ranged weapons should have a disadvantage compared to melee weapons. But magic requires only one attribute and is even more powerful than ranged weapons. Perception should determine the chance to hit with ranged weapons and the dexterity requirement should be replaced by perception.
Posted By: Elwyn Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 07:35 PM
Originally Posted by tx3000
Originally Posted by Elwyn
Your chance to hit with ranged weapons is determined by perception and not by dexterity.

Then explain why my mage with a low perception can hit better than an archer with a higher perception.



Does your mage have a bow equipped? I think, he probably has a staff as a weapon, doesn't he? Staff is an intelligence-based weapon, so the chance to hit is determined by intelligence. So, if your mage has a very high intelligence, then his chance to hit with a staff is also very high.

The chance to hit with ranged weapons (which is the same as accuracy) is determined by perception.

http://divinity.wikia.com/wiki/Divinity:_Original_Sin_Attributes
Posted By: Armakoir Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 07:36 PM
Originally Posted by Elwyn
Originally Posted by tx3000
Originally Posted by Elwyn
Your chance to hit with ranged weapons is determined by perception and not by dexterity.

Then explain why my mage with a low perception can hit better than an archer with a higher perception.



Does your mage have a bow equipped? I think, he probably has a staff as a weapon, doesn't he? Staff is an intelligence-based weapon, so the chance to hit is determined by intelligence. So, if your mage has a very high intelligence, then his chance to hit with a staff is also very high.

The chance to hit with ranged weapons (which is the same as accuracy) is determined by perception.

http://divinity.wikia.com/wiki/Divinity:_Original_Sin_Attributes

I think he means with spells, not staff attacks. Do ranged staff attacks have a to hit chance?

Addition:
Quote
I think that this is unbalanced, because bows and crossbows are the only weapons that require two attributes.

I wouldn't necessarily say its unbalanced, but it does strongly suggest making your archer into your scout/trapfinder in order to get your money's worth.
Posted By: PeteNewell Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 07:42 PM
Originally Posted by tx3000
Nothing I've done makes an archer effective.
Then your experience with archers is totally different from what everyone else responding to this thread has encountered.

Obviously we've all failed to grasp the essence of how badly archers were implemented in this game. We can all thank our lucky stars that you've come along to shine some light on the darkness of our sad lives.

And this is only the beginning: first crafting, and now archery! I can only wonder what aspect of this sorry excuse for a game will next become the focus of your keen insight, producing pearls of wisdom for you to graciously share with our benighted selves.

Why, I think I'll just walk away from this computer right now, and go try to do something worthwhile with myself. Thank you. Thank you tx3000, for reaching out to me in a time of troubles and setting me on the road to recovery.

I only hope that some of these other ingrates will also find a way to accept the truth you offer, and make of themselves something less pitiable and blind.

Posted By: tarasis Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 07:42 PM
Originally Posted by tx3000
People are also taking a high level archer and applying it to what I'm talking about which cannot be done. I'm talking about how no other class struggle in combat throughout the entire first map. 1/2 way through the first map is more than enough time for Archery to pick up from being bad and it doesn't. everything I posted above that happened not only happened into the second map of the game with every battle I ran into, but has happened with every single archer build I've used.


You've added this since earlier otherwise I would have included it in my reply. I am only in the first half of the map, my archer is a level 7 character with about 5 unused skill points, only 1 level in Expert Marksman.
Posted By: Elwyn Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 07:44 PM
Originally Posted by Armakoir

I think he means with spells, not staff attacks. Do ranged staff attacks have a to hit chance?



Well, I do not think, there is something like ranged staff attacks hehe If he means spells, then the chance for the spell to be successfull is calculated as follows:

Each spell (afaik) has a priori a 100% chance to work. Then you get a bonus from your intelligence value - so it is possible to have a chance of say 135%. And then, the chance is reduced by the willpower of the opponent.

So, it is:

100% + x * Intelligence - y * Willpower.
Posted By: Wizard1200 Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 07:49 PM
Originally Posted by PeteNewell
Obviously we've all failed to grasp the essence of how badly archers were implemented in this game. We can all thank our lucky stars that you've come along to shine some light on the darkness of our sad lives.


Actually tx3000 is right, because:

A bow has roughly the damage of a one handed weapon, but requires one additional AP and two attributes.

A crossbow has roughly the damage of a two handed weapon, but requires one additional AP and two attributes.

Magic deals ranged damage and requires only one attribute.
Posted By: tx3000 Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 07:49 PM
Everyone posting replies clearly has absolutely no idea how to read the stats in this game stats because they're saying accuracy is if you can hit the target...Are you kidding me...

DEXTERITY:

[Linked Image]

PERCEPTION:

[Linked Image]

Perception has absolutely nothing to do with CHANCE TO HIT.


Chance to hit is CAN YOU EVEN HIT THE TARGET, so It doesn't matter if you have a 1000% accuracy, if you have a 0% CHANCE TO HIT, you won't ever hit the target..EVER.

Accuracy is how MUCH OF THE TARGET GETS HIT IF YOU DO HIT THE TARGET.

If you have an archer with an 11 dex and it's in range to be able to hit the target, then it's chance to hit should never go below 80% simply because your dex is so high.

So people really need to stop with the excuses already of what am I trying to hit or I should use another character with an archer because that's not relevant to this. Every class you go into battle has some struggles, but can do significant damage on it's own, but the archer cannot do that. I should be able to take an archer and damage enemies to the same extent I do with any other class
Posted By: Armakoir Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 07:53 PM
Quote
Chance to hit is CAN YOU EVEN HIT THE TARGET, so It doesn't matter if you have a 1000% accuracy, if you have a 0% CHANCE TO HIT, you won't ever hit the target..EVER.

Accuracy is how MUCH OF THE TARGET GETS HIT IF YOU DO HIT THE TARGET.

...


Define "Accuracy" for me please....
Posted By: tx3000 Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 08:01 PM
Originally Posted by Armakoir
Define "Accuracy" for me please....

Accuracy means nothing more than how well you can aim for/at something.

You seem to not understand how accuracy and chance to hit are two completely different things and without chance to hit, accuracy is obsolete. While it seems logical that how can you miss a target if you have high accuracy, so let me explain it like this:

Let say you're aim is the best in the world, If your target is invisible or beyond out of range then you have a 0% chance to hit it which means you will never be able to hit your target no matter how good your accuracy is....ever.

The chance to hit is what matters when dealing with what I'm talking about. When you have a dex of 11 then you should not have a 49% chance to hit while the enemy is right next to you, and when you shoot, you still miss.
Posted By: TZDZ Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 08:07 PM
Originally Posted by Armakoir
Quote
Chance to hit is CAN YOU EVEN HIT THE TARGET, so It doesn't matter if you have a 1000% accuracy, if you have a 0% CHANCE TO HIT, you won't ever hit the target..EVER.

Accuracy is how MUCH OF THE TARGET GETS HIT IF YOU DO HIT THE TARGET.

...


Define "Accuracy" for me please....

Well, to say the truth, the tool-tip isn't very accurate :p
Posted By: Armakoir Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 08:12 PM
Actually, being a rather smart dude and having some sniper experience in my past, I think I understand these concepts quite well.

They are different concepts, but not completely so in that they interact with each other. I would say "chance to hit" is the final numerically stated result after determing all applicable factors. One of those factors, however, is the "accuracy" of the shooter (or wind, or distance, or the spin of the bullet itself, or the rotation of the Earth under a bullet as it travels a long distance). A skilled shooter (ie an accurate shooter) will have a higher chance to hit at longer distances. An unskilled shooter (ie an inaccurate shooter) will have a lower chance to hit at longer distances.

Basically, the accuracy of the shooter determines your overall chance to hit. That's why we can state that accuracy determines chance to hit.... because it does.
Posted By: Elwyn Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 08:12 PM
You have a chance to hit with bow which is determiend by dexterity - this is you maximum chance to hit. However, this chance to hit reduces with distance - and this is where accuracy becomes important. So, if your chance to hit from a certain distance is too low, then increase your perception.

Quoting from the wiki page:

Perception

- Accuracy when shooting over distances
- Every 0.2 meters from the target reduces chance to hit by 1%
- Each point of Perception increases the distance before penalties due to range take effect by 0.4 meters.

In order to boost your damage output, you have to put skill points into "bow" (or something like this) under weapons tab in the skills list.
Posted By: Armakoir Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 08:13 PM
Quote
Well, to say the truth, the tool-tip isn't very accurate :p

Granted!


Addition:
Quote
Let say you're aim is the best in the world, If your target is invisible or beyond out of range then you have a 0% chance to hit it which means you will never be able to hit your target no matter how good your accuracy is....ever.

The chance to hit is what matters when dealing with what I'm talking about. When you have a dex of 11 then you should not have a 49% chance to hit while the enemy is right next to you, and when you shoot, you still miss.

This is a good example. But lets flip it around. Lets say the target is visible and right in front of you, but you're a highly inaccurate shot. Your overall chance to hit is reduced by your poor personally accuracy.
Posted By: tx3000 Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 08:20 PM
Originally Posted by Armakoir
Basically, the accuracy of the shooter determines your overall chance to hit. That's why we can state that accuracy determines chance to hit.... because it does.

But you're wrong because it doesn't work like that. Accuracy IS NOT WHAT ALLOWS YOU TO HIT A TARGET...EVER.


Using this example I'll prove it:
Originally Posted by Armakoir
This is a good example. But lets flip it around. Lets say the target is visible and right in front of you, but you're a highly inaccurate shot. Your overall chance to hit is reduced by your poor personally accuracy.

Except in the situation I explained above it doesn't matter what you're accuracy is, you're still only have a 49% chance to hit the target.

So feel free to jack up the perception all you want, in fact set it at 20 if you want, you're chance to hit will remain at 49%.
Posted By: Damar Stiehl Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 08:33 PM
Debating semantics: it's fun and educational!

Dexterity determines the overall chance to hit.
Perception reduces the distance penalty which is subtracted from the overall chance to hit.

That's all there is to it. Why do we need a protracted debates on what "is" is?
Posted By: Mirza Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 08:36 PM
This guy never listens to anything anyone says. Here is a very simple explanation of what accuracy is and why Armakoir's point is perfectly rational: http://www.mathsisfun.com/accuracy-precision.html
Posted By: Armakoir Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 08:37 PM
Originally Posted by Damar Stiehl
Debating semantics: it's fun and educational!

Dexterity determines the overall chance to hit.
Perception reduces the distance penalty which is subtracted from the overall chance to hit.

That's all there is to it. Why do we need a protracted debates on what "is" is?

Because I'm a philosophy grad student and love this kind of thing. Sorry smirk



Quote
Except in the situation I explained above it doesn't matter what you're accuracy is, you're still only have a 49% chance to hit the target.

Wait, are you saying that even within melee range of a target, and 15 in-game meters from a target, you have the same chance to hit (ie err 49%)?
Posted By: tx3000 Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 08:37 PM
In this game Dexterity is what makes accuracy possible with bows/crossbows.

In my example above, if you only have a 49% chance to hit the target, you can put put 500 points into perception, but guess what, you're still only ever going to have a 49% chance to hit the target because the only way to raise the 49% chance to hit in this case is through dexterity.

So if you do not raise that 49% chance to hit through dexterity then you will just about always miss the target no matter how high your perception is.

Posted By: Armakoir Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 08:40 PM
Originally Posted by tx3000
In my example above, if you only have a 49% chance to hit the target, you can put put 500 points into perception, guess what, you're still only going to have a 49% chance to hit the target.

You must increase that 49% if you want to have a better chance of hitting the target and the only way to do that is through dexterity. If you do not raise that 49% then you will just about always miss the target no matter how high your perception is.

Increasing Perception will not ever change the 49% chance to hit that has to be done through dexterity.

Yes, you are correct.

However, low perception (ie accuracy) can reduce that amount number further as you distance yourself from the target.
Posted By: Armakoir Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 08:50 PM
I think I see what you're saying tx3000. It's not necessarily what you've been conveying all along, but that's ok.

Scenario: Within melee range of a target, an archer has a 50% chance to hit. Points into perception will NOT increase this number. About that you are correct.

However, when the archer moves away from the target that 50% chance will degrade to a lower number at a rate based on the archer's perception (ie accuracy). Because this is a fact about the game, it is logical to say that "accuracy determines overall chance to hit" because accuracy does factor into that overal hit chance.

In short, you are right, and I am right... we're just talking past each other.


Now... the question is, how do we fix that 50% chance to hit at melee range? So, I return to my previous questions: what level is your archer? what level is the enemy unit? What type of enemy unit is it (ie archer, mage, etc)? And what difficulty level are you playing on?
Posted By: tx3000 Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 08:52 PM
Originally Posted by Armakoir
However, low perception (ie accuracy) can reduce that amount number further as you distance yourself from the target.

Yes but I'm not talking about that. I'm specifically explaining to people that when it comes to bows/crossbows, accuracy doesn't matter if you have a low% chance to hit.

Archery is just a very poorly implemented and designed class with just way too many restrictions on it to be worth it to struggle through the game until you can get it up to a high enough level to be effective.

Every Archer I've ever created and used always has a very low % chance to hit despite having a high dex and because of that I refuse to use the class until it's been fixed.

I can deal significant damage with every class type in battles except archery.
Posted By: Armakoir Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 08:55 PM
Do you want to figure out why your archer's to hit chance is so low or not?
Posted By: tx3000 Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 09:02 PM
Originally Posted by Armakoir
Do you want to figure out why your archer's to hit chance is so low or not?

It doesn't matter why!

An archer that has a dexterity of 11, should not ever have a 49% chance to hit an enemy that is right next to them, for any reason.
Posted By: Armakoir Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 09:05 PM
So your answer is no. That's fine. I hope you really come to enjoy other class types, and I hope they are really effective for you.

That being said, your unwillingness to find the root of your archer to-hit problems COMPLETELY INVALIDATES your entire "archer's suck" argument in this thread.

You can't have it both ways.

Edit: Well, at least it greatly undermines it :P
Posted By: Elwyn Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 09:17 PM
Originally Posted by tx3000
Originally Posted by Armakoir
Do you want to figure out why your archer's to hit chance is so low or not?

It doesn't matter why!

An archer that has a dexterity of 11, should not ever have a 49% chance to hit an enemy that is right next to them, for any reason.


Just as a side note: My warrior who has a strength of 13 sometimes has the chance to hit of 29%.
Posted By: tx3000 Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 09:24 PM
Originally Posted by Armakoir
That being said, your unwillingness to find the root of your archer to-hit problems COMPLETELY INVALIDATES your entire "archer's suck" argument in this thread.


There is nothing to learn, it's very simple, an archer that has a dexterity of 11 should not ever only have a 49% chance to hit an enemy that is right next to them, for any reason.

Putting the chance to hit and accuracy aside, the reasons why archery is just a bad class is denoted by all the other reasons I posted.

Only when all the restrictions and the low chance to hit even with enemies standing right next to you, are fixed, will archery will be playable.


On a side note
Originally Posted by Elwyn
Just as a side note: My warrior who has a strength of 13 sometimes has the chance to hit of 29%.

Yes Sometimes...that's not the issue I'm talking about.

All the archers I have ever built even with a dex of 11 ALWAYS have a very low % chance to hit even while enemies being right next to the archer.

Sometimes is expected, but it's always low with archers every time all the time.
Posted By: EvanNotIvan Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 09:32 PM
Armakoir surely the OP is reporting this perceived problem as a possible bug, using your link?

There are people in the world who simply cannot hear us in order to fully engage. There are millions of us so some must be this way, slightly autistic maybe but well-meaning on encountering perceived problems

See how I used stats there btw smile
Posted By: Armakoir Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 09:33 PM
Originally Posted by tx3000
There is nothing to learn, it's very simple, an archer that has a dexterity of 11 should not ever only have a 49% chance to hit an enemy that is right next to them, for any reason.

Why? What makes Dex 11 so powerful? Did I miss something in the manual?


A majority of your "archer's suck" argument revolves around the damage output of archers, so an unwillingness to investigate why that damage output is low DOES greatly undermine your entire argument.

Regarding your other points:
A lack of special arrows would not be considered a lack if basic bow damage was satisfactory. Nor would the damage of special arrows seem lacking if basic bow damage was satisfactory (since, I think, the strength of special arrows is their utility, not their damage).

And the durability of bows/crossbows is just irrelevant.

So, archer damage output is the crux of your argument. Want to fix it?
Posted By: tx3000 Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 09:46 PM
Originally Posted by Armakoir
Why? What makes Dex 11 so powerful? Did I miss something in the manual?

You really don't get it to you. Why is it so hard for you or others to understand that it's not supposed to be a 49% chance to hit with a dexterity of 11, especially with an enemy right next to you.

Increase dexterity it increases the chance to hit because that's exactly what dexterity does in this case. Example if 5 dex = 40% chance to hit, then 6 dex is supposed to increase it to over 40%. If you have 11 dexterity and it still only says 40% then the class is broken because it's not supposed to remain low when increasing something higher.

Originally Posted by Armakoir
A majority of your "archer's suck" argument revolves around the damage output of archers, so an unwillingness to investigate why that damage output is low DOES greatly undermine your entire argument.

Except an archer with dex of 11 that only has a 49% chance to hit is exactly like a fighter with a strength of 11 and only being able to carry 50 weight, or a mage with an intelligence of 11 not having their spells do the damage to the appropriate level raised by intelligence.


Originally Posted by Armakoir
Regarding your other points:
A lack of special arrows would not be considered a lack if basic bow damage was satisfactory. Nor would the damage of special arrows seem lacking if basic bow damage was satisfactory (since, I think, the strength of special arrows is their utility, not their damage).[quote]
None of that is relevant because a special arrow has both normal and bonus damage, while a regular arrow only has regular damage.

If you don't grasp how even at non minimal level, a special arrow is not doing as much damage as a normal one when they're supposed to, you have problems.

[quote=Armakoir]So, archer damage output is the crux of your argument. Want to fix it?

No it's the class has too many problems and things that shouldn't be happening that don't apply or happen with any other class.
Posted By: Armakoir Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 09:51 PM
Answer my questions (since they all effect chance to hit) and we can continue... and help other players having problems with their archers. Otherwise, you're just being stubborn.

Best,
Arma
Posted By: tx3000 Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 09:53 PM
I did answer them. You're just refusing to accept the answers.

Originally Posted by Armakoir
Answer my questions (since they all effect chance to hit)

THE ONLY THING THAT AFFECTS CHANCE TO HIT IS DEXTERITY...PERIOD

Not sure why people keep trying to apply perception to this.
Posted By: Armakoir Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 09:55 PM
These questions?

What level is your archer? What level is the enemy unit? What type of enemy unit is it (ie archer, mage, etc)? And what difficulty level are you playing on?

No, you didn't.

Last chance...
Posted By: Elwyn Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 09:59 PM
Quoting this from the game's manual:

"Hovering over the target will also show your chance of a successful hit
on that enemy. Your chance depends on the primary statistic related to
your specific type of attack and weapon,your offence rating , as well as
the enemy's defence rating. Enemies with lower defence ratings tend to
be easy to attack, while those with higher defence ratings can be very
difficult to hit.
"

Your chance to hit depends not only on your offence rating but also on the enemy's defence rating. So, if you see a very low chance to hit, then the enemy has a very high defence rating - one of the possible reasons is that you are fighting enemies who are above your level. When I picked up fights with my level 11 characters against level 14 spiders, then the chance to hit of my warrior was even worse than 49% - it was actually just 29%. Btw, my warrior had strength of 13 at this time.
Posted By: tx3000 Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 10:05 PM
WHAT THE FUCK YOU'RE AL NOT EVEN TALKING ABOUT WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT. AN ENEMIES STATS ARE ABSOLUTELY IRRELEVANT TO WHAT YOUR CHARACTERS CAPABILITIES ARE.

An archer's chance to hit is set by it's dexterity. An enemy that has fortified armor while being wet has nothing to do with the 49% chance to hit my character has that was set by my characters dexterity.

That CHANCE TO HIT number is going to read 49% no matter what status the enemy does or does not have. I am still going to be shooting at a 49% chance to hit WHEN I FIRE THAT ARROW because that is what my chance to hit is.

Posted By: Armakoir Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 10:06 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhS-i-c1XxI
Posted By: tarasis Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 10:11 PM
I'm getting tempted to load the game up, pick a fight with a creature, take a screen shot of the chance to hit and my character sheet.

Then load the save in the Save Editor, changing the Dex one by one, loading the save and taking a screen shot each time. Then repeating the same thing with Perception.
Then going back and alternating each time between Dex and Perception.
Posted By: tx3000 Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 10:22 PM
You're all not getting it. You think an enemies status or level is going to change the chance the % YOUR character Shoots at. Which is incorrect. Sure the game may adjust the number but you're still shooting at whatever % you're characters dexterity sets that number to and in my case it's 49%.

and using 49% chance to hit as an example, whether the enemy has massive armor and it adjusts lower because of that, or no armor at all and it adjusts higher to that, you're character is still going to shoot at 49% chance to hit no matter what.

You're all taking the enemies adjustment and trying to say you're character has a different % and it doesn't. You're character has a single number that gets used no matter what. The game adjusts that number according to the enemy being shot, but the number itself always remains the same.
Posted By: Elwyn Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 10:24 PM
A chest or a door differ from an enemy in as much as they cannot dodge your attacks. In other words, they do not have a defence rating.

To summarise how the chance to hit for ranged weapons is calculated:

Your dexterity influences your offence rating. An enemy has a defence rating (which is indirectly connected to the enemy's level). The ideal (!) chance to hit is calculated based on these two values.

Do not ask me the exact formula, but I think this would be something very simple like "Offence rating - defence rating".

This is your ideal chance to hit when your ranger is very close to the enemy. When your ranger moves away from the enemy, then the chance to hit starts to decrease - the rate of this decrease is 1% every 0.2 m. In order to counteract this reduction you have to improve your accuracy - which is influenced by the perception attribute.
Posted By: tx3000 Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 10:26 PM
My dex determines the % to hit and that number is locked in place it does not change for any reason until you change your dexterity.

The game adjusting 49% to the enemies status, isn't changing the 49% in the slightest, it's only changing how the 49% gets applied.

In my case a 49% chance to hit an enemy gets fired out every shot, the game then takes the 49% and adjusts it accordingly, but the shot is still a fixed number of 49%.

It's like engraving an arrow with the letter A on it. When it's fired from the bow, nothing will change that A unless you manually change it.

So in comparison, the letter A is set in the arrow but yet people are saying that the letter A gets changed to a D when being fired, just because an enemy is level 50 or has some sick armor or status or no armor or status.

The arrow is going to remain with an A on it no matter what.
Posted By: recluce Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 10:35 PM
Originally Posted by tx3000
WHAT THE FUCK YOU'RE AL NOT EVEN TALKING ABOUT WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT. AN ENEMIES STATS ARE ABSOLUTELY IRRELEVANT TO WHAT YOUR CHARACTERS CAPABILITIES ARE.

An archer's chance to hit is set by it's dexterity. An enemy that has fortified armor while being wet has nothing to do with the 49% chance to hit my character has that was set by my characters dexterity.

That CHANCE TO HIT number is going to read 49% no matter what status the enemy does or does not have. I am still going to be shooting at a 49% chance to hit WHEN I FIRE THAT ARROW because that is what my chance to hit is.



You behave like a spoiled, 12-year old brat. Repeating the same single argument over and over again without addressing other people's comments disqualifies you - or marks you as a troll.

I understand that you cannot grasp that many factors affect your chance to hit something as an archer:

- Your character's dexterity
- Your opponent's dexterity and armor rating
- Your perception, affecting accuracy (or in other words, precision) over distance
- Environment (smoke etc.)
- A lot of other factors that we may not be aware of

Sorry that this is too complicated for you.

Oh, btw: *** PLONK **** for your lack of ability to discuss something like an adult.
Posted By: tx3000 Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 10:39 PM
Originally Posted by recluce
I understand that you cannot grasp that many factors affect your chance to hit something as an archer:

- Your character's dexterity
- Your opponent's dexterity and armor rating
- Your perception, affecting accuracy (or in other words, precision) over distance
- Environment (smoke etc.)
- A lot of other factors that we may not be aware of


If you have a 49% chance to hit a target, whether you attack an enemy with tons or armor or no armor at all, you're still attacking the target with a 49% chance with every attack you do no matter what. Except it's an adjusted 49% chance to hit.

Read above for what I said.
Posted By: tarasis Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 10:48 PM
Okay so let's see.

Pirate Bowman Level 6, 14.1 meters away
Scarlet, Level 7, Dex 10, Perception 7 - 68% chance to hit
Scarlet, Level 7, Dex 10, Perception 12 - 84% chance to hit
Scarlet, Level 7, Dex 15, Perception 7 - 76% chance to hit
Scarlet, Level 7, Dex 15, Perception 12 - 92% chance to hit

So above the biggest adjust came from Perception, those 5 points made me 18% more likely to hit. Where Dex only made me 8% more likely to hit.

Pontius Pirate, Level 6, 2.5 meters away
Scarlet, Level 7, Dex 10, Perception 7 - 87% chance to hit
Scarlet, Level 7, Dex 10, Perception 12 - 87% chance to hit
Scarlet, Level 7, Dex 15, Perception 7 - 100% chance to hit
Scarlet, Level 7, Dex 15, Perception 12 - 100% chance to hit

As he's so close to me my guess is that perception / accuracy doesn't play a role, Dex does possibly so you outmaneuver his dodges. I guess I should add some further tests with reducing Dex and Perception.

I have screen shots available if you want them.

I'm using a Hexing Old Hazel Flat Bow of Disabling
Item level 4
Piercing 33-58 damage
Fire 5-8
Max Range 26m
Posted By: Elwyn Re: Deciding to be an archer - READ THIS FIRST - 05/08/14 10:48 PM
A proof that chance to hit is reduced by the distance (which is influenced by the accuracy which in turn is linked to accuracy):

Character very close to the enemy: Chance to hit 46 %

[img]http://imgur.com/Bflwb1g[/img]

Same fight, character farther away from the enemy: Chance to hit 31 %

[img]http://imgur.com/zyTuOhL[/img]

I have also included the character sheet in every image as a prove that the character stats are the same both times.

As a side note: Same fight, chance to hit of a warrior with strength 13 is 52 %

[img] http://imgur.com/oZRO03t [/img]

Posted By: Nicdanger Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 10:48 PM
"Why does archery suck so bad?"

It doesn't.

I'd happily answer and debate all the points made here. However, the OP's statements are full of opinions and fallacies, and he makes no attempt to put anything in context or answer simple questions from people trying to help him. Like trying to reason with a creationist, helping this guy is just not possible.

Have a nice day.
Posted By: tx3000 Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 10:56 PM
@Elywyn
Sorry to tell you this, but you still attacked with the same exact % chance to hit every single time you attacked. What you're seeing is an adjusted version of your % to attack.

Using 49% chance to hit as an example:
If you have a 49% chance to hit a target, whether you attack an enemy with tons or armor or no armor at all, you're still attacking the target with a 49% chance with every attack you do no matter what.

The adjusted number isn't changing the 49% chance to hit.

Read above for what I said.
Posted By: Armakoir Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 10:58 PM
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=296472021
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=296471969
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=296472076

My dex never changes, WHAT IS THIS... FOUL SOURCERY!?
Posted By: tarasis Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 11:02 PM
My screen shots: https://www.dropbox.com/s/fgkyq6wruqvft35/Screenshots.zip
(On Dropbox as I've now left my comp to go to bed so I can't upload them to steam)
Posted By: Nicdanger Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 11:03 PM
Originally Posted by tx3000
You can show me videos of an archer kicking ass and I'll still tell you Archery is a bad class.


You guys are great for actually testing and proving this guy wrong about his assumptions, but he's already told you facts will not be changing his mind.
Posted By: Armakoir Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 11:04 PM
Technically, these are pictures wink
Posted By: Elwyn Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 11:05 PM
@tx3000, your chance to hit is the number which you see right next to the attack symbol. In one case it is 46 %, in the other case it is 31 %. The chance to hit is defined as the successful chance to hit a particular enemy in a particular situation: it depends on your offence rating, your dexterity, the distance and the enemy's defence rating. What is fixed by the dexterity is your offence rating which you can see in the character's sheet. It is not possible to calculate the abstract chance to hit without knowing the enemy's defence rating, the distance etc.

Btw, armour is irrelevant for the chance to hit. It is only relevant for the damage reduction if the enemy is actually hit. Defence rating is the one number which is responsible for dodging of attacks.



Posted By: Snaphane Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 11:06 PM
A few pointers which I fail to see mentioned, but I suspect a certain individual wouldnt listen anyway wink

* Archery has good range, at my current lvl its 26m. quite a bit more than Jahan's magic. Sure I might miss, but range is range ...and combined with controleffects ranged firepower rocks.

* (not that I have gotten there yet) but at marksmanship lvl 5 you can get 'quickdraw' (I think its called) giving -1AP to shooting actions.

* Special arrows are for special occatioins giving a huge flexibility of effects, in my last combat I "defrosted" Madora by shooting her with a firearrow laugh
Posted By: RtM Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 11:14 PM
Surprising people still take him serious.
Posted By: tx3000 Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 11:16 PM
You people need to grasp how to read the game.

Let say a baseball represents a 10% chance to hit. When you attack any enemy with that baseball. It doesn't all of a sudden change into an orange. It's still a baseball no matter what.

The game may take and change the size of that baseball and how it impacts even change the color, but it cannot change what it is which is a baseball. So the fact is the set thing you threw is a baseball.

So if you have a 10% chance to hit an enemy when attacking, then no matter what the number says on screen you're still delivering a 10% chance to hit no matter what. The game doesn't change the 10% it only adjusts it accordingly just like the game cannot change WHAT was thrown.
Posted By: Armakoir Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 11:18 PM
Originally Posted by RtM
Surprising people still take him serious.

Admittedly, I was curious what would happen if you tried to talk to him, instead of just getting mad. Also, I don't think he's a troll, because I think he really believes what he's saying (and, as I understand them, trolls tend to take up an antogonistic position just for kicks).

/shrug
Posted By: tx3000 Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 11:20 PM
If you don't grasp that if you have a 10% chance to hit, and the game only adjusts that number so it's still 10% it's just now adjusted, then none of you know how to read this game at all.

Set numbers DO NOT CHANGE they only get adjusted.
Posted By: Elwyn Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 11:24 PM
Originally Posted by tx3000
You're all idiots if you think a set number you have gets lowered by an enemy.

If you don't grasp that if you have a 10% chance to hit, and the game only adjusts that number so it's still 10% it's just now adjusted, then none of you know how to read this game at all.


Then, let me ask you the following question: Where in the game can you see the "actual chance to hit" and not the "modified chance to hit"? How do you know that your archer has the "actual chance to hit" of 49 % and not of - say - 100 %?
Posted By: tx3000 Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 11:33 PM
In your stat screen

This whole thing reminds me of how my friend didn't understand the a spell was missing on some targets even though the spell says right on it has 100% chance of being cast

Unless muted you will always be able to cast a scroll or spells effect. People will take the Failed aspect and think the spell wasn't cast because it said failed..No the spell was cast it's the effect that failed.

I had to explain that the 100% chance to cast and the effect of the cast spell taking hold are 2 completely different things.

This whole archery argument people are saying is the exact same thing. They think that chance to hit chances based on enemies which is false, it never changes the number is only adjusted, but the base number never changes.

It's like you're armor rating, it says a set number.
Posted By: Mental Poison Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 11:33 PM
Originally Posted by tx3000
I did a save reload test on the same enemy, and every time I hit the same enemy with a regular arrow it took out 1/2 - 3/4 of it's health, all elemental arrows only took up less than - 1/4 of their health and that was only due to some of the damage on the arrow itself, the elemental damage was practically useless because half the enemies in the game never get affected by the elemental damage from arrows. This was a direct result of the reload test I did.


Your problem is you don't even offer direct combat logs to support your argument. 1/4 hp of an enemy could range from 50-500, easily.

But you have missed some things I think. For instance my Ricochet hits 5 targets for around 120 average. So if I get 5 enemies, I just did an instant 600 damage. This is nearly double the highest damage output of anyone in my group's single attacks. We are mostly lvl 11-12, Knight, Rogue/Marks, and 2 mages. Arrow spray can shoot 16 shots, at 50 damage a pop, thats 800. It is a lot more reliable then other mid-end spells, for getting that high end dam.

Also a marksmen gets a pretty amazing ability early on, with Tactical Retreat (leap).

Lastly I think you drastically underplayed the power of special arrows. I have seen posts about fights people cannot beat, where I used a few special arrows and just controlled the entire fight. Literally charm arrow, hide, watch the other enemies rip apart themselves 1 by 1. A dunrandrea plant and an arrow head, costly? Huh. I dont waste elementals on arrows, man up and buy them if you get too low of one type. I have seemingly endless amounts, even sold off some like weakeness, speed debuff, ect. Later I found a fight I needed them badly for, so I wont have less then 2 of each type, or else im failing as an archer. Gold is so plentiful, I cant imagine this being a problem for anyone that knows how to play the game (crafting, blacksmithing, stealing).

As for making the elemental arrows, they should be expensive tbh, I think vendors should reflect that better. I have about 7-10 of each arrow type, play on hard, and fight enemies 4+ levels higher. Game is almost brokenly easy, due to my archer.

Rethink yours, I have- Bully (50% dam against crippled, knocked, slowed enemies), Guerrilla (double damage out of stealth, which dont work with abilities sadly), Quickdraw (1 ap off range attacks cost). I promise you its worth the wait, im not even full marksmen (bow is only 2 points), balanced attributes (8str, 14 dex, 11 perc, 8 con- roughly is his stats). To wear heavier armor, still do solid dagger damage, and can survive a little damage if I dont get off one of my several get out of jail free cards, and a decent ranged damage/crit.

Could also be my bow, I have a lvl 11 legendary bow like 150 + 20 restrung standard damage, 25 water, 45 fire (joshua spice). And bunch of bonuses on it that I need. For the most part, I can get a consistent 150 hp basic hit. Doubled when in stealth.

Whoa, i just rambled on for a hot minute.. Basically I wish I went a more pure archer with my guy, because he has always been the clutch player who pulls us out of a certain end. Dont lose all faith in your archer yet.
Posted By: tarasis Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 11:33 PM
Originally Posted by Armakoir
Originally Posted by RtM
Surprising people still take him serious.

Admittedly, I was curious what would happen if you tried to talk to him, instead of just getting mad. Also, I don't think he's a troll, because I think he really believes what he's saying (and, as I understand them, trolls tend to take up an antogonistic position just for kicks).

/shrug


It's kinda interesting to see him ignore empirical evidence and claim that the data we've seen and shown is just the game lying to us and that the figures don't actually change under the hood. That and his continued avoidance of answering questions, he just sticking to "my Dex is 11, my archer should be Robin Hood and able to hit amazingly"* not his actual words.
Posted By: Elwyn Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 11:43 PM
Originally Posted by tx3000
In your stat screen


Ah, OK, I think I know what you are talking about. I think you are talking about "critical chance" in the stat screen, don't you? Aside from the resistances it is the only percentage number. Well, critical chance is NOT a chance to hit - it is a chance to make a critical hit to the enemy IF you actually hit it (which is based on your chance to hit). A critical hit deals extra damage to the enemy.

Below the critical chance, you can actually see the offence and the defence ratings. These are the numbers (among other parameters) which are resposible for your chance to hit and to be hit.
Posted By: tx3000 Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 11:43 PM
Oh for fucks sake you people are so stupid.

Open your fucking inventory and READ YOUR CHANCE TO HIT see the number

Now get into a battle and hover your mouse over an enemy and look at the number then go into your inventory again and try telling me the % to hit is actually changed ON YOUR INVENTORY SCREEN. YOU WILL SEE IT DOES NOT which means YOU'RE CHANCE TO HIT IS THE SAME NO MATTER WHAT.

The number you are seeing when hovering over an enemy is an ADJUSTED VERSION OF the ACTUAL NUMBER YOU HAVE in your inventory.

If your inventory number shows 59% hovering over an enemy that has enemy and shows 30% chance to hit WILL NOT DROP THE NUMBER IN YOUR INVENTORY FROM 59% DOWN to 30%. But yet that's what you guys are all saying. The number is LOCKED IN PLACE and fighting enemies DOES NOT CHANCE THE % IT ONLY ADJUSTS IT ACCORDING TO THE DAMN ENEMY.

You only have one chance to hit number on your character that gets adjusted depending on the enemy.

You all need to learn how to read this game before dictating to me I'm wrong.
Posted By: Elwyn Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 11:45 PM
There is no "chance to hit" number in the character sheet - there is only "critical chance" which is NOT the chance to hit an enemy (but rather the chance to do extra damage IF you hit it)

Again, quoting from the game's manual:

Critical chance:
A percentage representing how much of a chance
your character has to strike a critical hit.

Offense rating:
Determines your character's chance of hitting an
enemy.


Defence rating:
Determines how hard it is for others to successfully hit you with a melee or ranged attack.
Posted By: RtM Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 11:46 PM
Apple Pie

Ingredients
1/2 cup sugar
1/2 cup packed brown sugar
3 tablespoons all-purpose flour
1 teaspoon ground cinnamon
1/4 teaspoon ground ginger
1/4 teaspoon ground nutmeg
6 to 7 cups thinly sliced peeled tart apples
1 tablespoon lemon juice
Pastry for double-crust pie (9 inches)
1 tablespoon butter
1 egg white

Directions
In a small bowl, combine the sugars, flour and spices; set aside. In a large bowl, toss apples with lemon juice. Add sugar mixture; toss to coat.
Line a 9-in. pie plate with bottom crust; trim pastry even with edge. Fill with apple mixture; dot with butter. Roll out remaining pastry to fit top of pie. Place over filling. Trim, seal and flute edges. Cut slits in pastry.
Beat egg white until foamy; brush over pastry. Sprinkle with sugar. Cover edges loosely with foil.
Bake at 375ï½° for 25 minutes. Remove foil and bake 20-25 minutes longer or until crust is golden brown and filling is bubbly. Cool on a wire rack. Yield: 8 servings.




Posted By: tarasis Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 11:49 PM
RtM Are you sure you meant to share an Apple Pie recipe and not a Humble Pie recipe for poor tx3000?

Originally Posted by tx3000
Oh for fucks sake you people are so stupid.

Open your fucking inventory and READ YOUR CHANCE TO HIT see the number
.


Where? http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=296472076
Posted By: RtM Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 05/08/14 11:52 PM
Just trying to keep going along with the ridiculousness of the thread.
Posted By: tarasis Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 06/08/14 12:09 AM
Originally Posted by RtM
Just trying to keep going along with the ridiculousness of the thread.


*chuckles* not a bad idea. I should be asleep, it's 2am but I keep wanting to see where this goes next.

Unfortunately some of my fav recipes used a Thermomix (fancy food processor/cooker), but I'll trade you this rather scrummy Wheaten Bread recipe for your Apple Pie wink

Irish soda bread / Wheaten Bread
★★★★★
Bread
cook 45-55 ∙ difficulty Easy

INGREDIENTS

250g plain white flour
250g plain wholemeal flour
100g porridge oats
3 Tbsp Bran
1 tsp bicarbonate of soda
1 tsp salt
25g butter , cut in pieces
500-560ml buttermilk

DIRECTIONS

Preheat the oven to 200C/gas 6/fan 180C and dust a baking sheet with flour. Mix the dry ingredients in a large bowl, then rub in the butter. Pour in the buttermilk and mix it in quickly with a table knife, then bring the dough together very lightly with your fingertips (handle it very, very gently). Now shape it into a flat, round loaf measuring 20cm/8in in diameter.

Put the loaf on the baking sheet and score a deep cross in the top. (Traditionally, this lets the fairies out, but it also helps the bread to cook through.) Bake for 30-35 minutes until the bottom of the loaf sounds hollow when tapped. If it isn't ready after this time, turn it upside down on the baking sheet and bake for a few minutes more.

Transfer to a wire rack, cover with a clean tea towel (this keeps the crust nice and soft) and leave to cool. To serve, break into quarters, then break or cut each quarter in half to make 8 wedges or slices - or simply slice across. Eat very fresh.
Posted By: Armakoir Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 06/08/14 12:19 AM
Now I'm hungry... could someone please explain to me the chance of hitting the Wendy's drive through?
Posted By: tarasis Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 06/08/14 12:24 AM
Originally Posted by Armakoir
Now I'm hungry... could someone please explain to me the chance of hitting the Wendy's drive through?


From here the chance is 0%, the nearest one is probably thousands of kilometers away. *scratches head* actually there may be one or two in the UK. If you go can you post me a pic of a juicy bacon cheese burger wink
Posted By: EvanNotIvan Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 06/08/14 12:35 AM
At the moment of firing the missile, 100% chance of hitting

Oops she ducked

Aagh it bounced off his mobile

There are no rails that the missile runs on, time ticks and events happen

Bit like an M.O.T. yes, all good when we looked at it smile
Posted By: tx3000 Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 06/08/14 01:03 AM
Originally Posted by Elwyn
Again, quoting from the game's manual:
Offense rating:
Determines your character's chance of hitting an
enemy.

Yeah FOR MELEE NOT ARCHERY

Here is what what determines your characters chance to hit with Archery:

[Linked Image]

Now quit applying non-dexterity aspects to dexterity.


Originally Posted by Snaphane
A few pointers which I fail to see mentioned, but I suspect a certain individual wouldnt listen anyway wink

* Archery has good range, at my current lvl its 26m. quite a bit more than Jahan's magic. Sure I might miss, but range is range ...and combined with controleffects ranged firepower rocks.


First of all the whole point to archery IS to deal damage from a distance. If you're missing a lot then you might as well not even use it because it totally defeats the purpose.

Secondly: Stop taking higher level aspects and saying well when you get to this level. That is 100% not even relevant to this. If Archery is only stable after certain a very high level, then that proves my whole point about how bad it is.

Finally, if you're missing a lot then control effects and firepower are barely possible.

You want archery to be just as effective early on just like every other class is. Since it's not, it's just a really bad class and needs to be fixed so it operates the same way every other class in the game operates.
Posted By: Armakoir Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 06/08/14 01:17 AM
Originally Posted by tarasis
Originally Posted by Armakoir
Now I'm hungry... could someone please explain to me the chance of hitting the Wendy's drive through?


From here the chance is 0%, the nearest one is probably thousands of kilometers away. *scratches head* actually there may be one or two in the UK. If you go can you post me a pic of a juicy bacon cheese burger wink

Well, ooobviously, you need more perception. smile

Quote
At the moment of firing the missile, 100% chance of hitting

Oops she ducked

Aagh it bounced off his mobile

There are no rails that the missile runs on, time ticks and events happen

Bit like an M.O.T. yes, all good when we looked at it

Translation: it's always someone else's fault?
Posted By: dlux Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 06/08/14 01:27 AM
If you think archer builds are a bad, then you don't know how to play the game. Simple as that really.
Posted By: dirigible Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 06/08/14 01:54 AM
Why has this forum allowed a tx3000 thread to get 5 pages long?
You're supposed to PAY the troll, not FEED the troll.
Posted By: Mirza Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 06/08/14 02:55 AM
I still want to know where my chance to hit percentage is on my character sheet! Maybe I should create a thread titled, "The reason the devs suck!" and hope they'll fix my obviously bugged character sheet with a chance to hit percentage! Oh and you are all idiots! wink
Posted By: dirigible Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 06/08/14 02:57 AM
Originally Posted by Mirza
I still want to know where my chance to hit percentage is on my character sheet! Maybe I should create a thread titled, "The reason the devs suck!" and hope they'll fix my obviously bugged character sheet with a chance to hit percentage! Oh and you are all idiots! wink

It's called 'Offense'.
As far as I know, your chance to hit is equal to your Offense - the enemy's Defense.
Posted By: Mirza Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 06/08/14 03:01 AM
Originally Posted by dirigible
Originally Posted by Mirza
I still want to know where my chance to hit percentage is on my character sheet! Maybe I should create a thread titled, "The reason the devs suck!" and hope they'll fix my obviously bugged character sheet with a chance to hit percentage! Oh and you are all idiots! wink

It's called 'Offense'.
As far as I know, your chance to hit is equal to your Offense - the enemy's Defense.
I was providing satire. I suppose it was poorly done. wink
Posted By: dirigible Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 06/08/14 03:06 AM
tx3000 broke me. I can't tell what's real any more.
Posted By: Jito463 Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 06/08/14 04:33 AM
Ooh, a recipe thread. Good idea. Here's one I've been doing for years, and I've always got great responses from it.

Coca-Cola Cake
Ingredients
1 cup Coca-Cola
1/2 cup buttermilk
1 cup butter or margarine, softened
2 cups sugar
2 large eggs, lightly beaten
2 tsp vanilla extract
2 cups all-purpose flour
1/4 cup cocoa
1 tsp baking soda

Preparation
Preheat oven to 350ï½°
Combine Coca-Cola and buttermilk; set aside.
Beat butter at low speed with an electric mixer until creamy. Gradually add sugar; beat until blended. Add egg and vanilla; beat at low speed until blended.
Combine flour, cocoa, and soda. Add to butter mixture alternately with cola mixture; begin and end with flour mixture. Beat at low speed just until blended.
Pour batter into a greased and floured 13- x 9-inch pan. Bake at 350ï½° for 30 to 35 minutes. Remove from oven; cool 10 minutes.

While it's still warm from the oven, you can mix up this frosting for the top.

Coca-Cola Frosting

Ingredients
1/2 cup butter or margarine
1/3 cup Coca-Cola
3 tablespoons cocoa
1 (16-ounce) package powdered sugar
1 tablespoon vanilla extract
Garnish: 3/4 cup chopped pecans, toasted

Preparation
Bring first 3 ingredients to a boil in a large saucepan over medium heat, stirring until butter melts. Remove from heat; whisk in sugar and vanilla.
Pour Coca-Cola Frosting over warm cake; garnish, if desired.

Note: Don't make the frosting ahead--you need to pour it over the cake shortly after baking.
Posted By: tarasis Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 06/08/14 04:52 AM
Originally Posted by dirigible
tx3000 broke me. I can't tell what's real any more.


Nothing, we're all inside the machine. (I wish the f'ing digger next door wasn't real. 6:30am is far too early to begin digging).

Originally Posted by dirigible
Why has this forum allowed a tx3000 thread to get 5 pages long?
You're supposed to PAY the troll, not FEED the troll.


We were trying a different tack? Or we've just gone insane.

Originally Posted by tx3000

Secondly: Stop taking higher level aspects and saying well when you get to this level. That is 100% not even relevant to this. If Archery is only stable after certain a very high level, then that proves my whole point about how bad it is.
.


You continue to ignore our questions. Plus level 7 isn't particularly high. What level is your archer when he/she has managed to have 11 Dex? What is your build stats wise and skill wise? What is your offense rating? Where is the the field on the inventory sheet you mentioned? You've been asked by a few of us but you refuse to answer.

Originally Posted by Armakoir

Well, ooobviously, you need more perception. smile


You sure? I was _positive_ that Dex would be enough. Dang. wink

Btw I like your sig. smile
Posted By: tarasis Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 06/08/14 04:56 AM
Originally Posted by Jito463
Ooh, a recipe thread. Good idea. Here's one I've been doing for years, and I've always got great responses from it.

Coca-Cola Cake


Ooo not heard of that sort of cake before. I do drink Coke (though I've swapped to Fritz Cola for the last few months) and this looks very interesting and odd all at the same time. Cheers, I've added it to my list of recipes to try.
Posted By: ivra Re: Deciding to be an archer - READ THIS FIRST - 06/08/14 07:32 AM
I just like to chime in and thank the people explaining how archery works. There have been a lot of good explanations in this thread, and I now fully understand the difference between Dexterity and Perception. In my first play-through I over-focused on Dexterity. Now I can create a more balanced build for my archer.


I will probably be shot for the statement below, but I am trying just the same. The following simplified formula is applied when calculating a chance to hit a target:

ActualChanceToHitTarget = MaxInnateChanceToHit - Modifiers

where

MaxInnateChanceToHit is your absolute maximum chance to hit without taking care of any modifiers. It is like standing next to a door and shooting arrows at it. This number depends on the character sheet of your PC and nothing else. Moreover, it is not affected by Perception since its effect is built into the Modifiers section of the formula.

Modifiers are all the situational effects that have to be taken into consideration before the actual hit chance can be calculated. The range penalty is one of them. It can be reduced by increasing Perception. Environment factors, like smoke, etc. is another one. Your offensive rating and the enemy's defensive rating is another one.

ActualChanceToHitTarget is the actual chance that your arrow hit when you fire the arrow. This is the number the game displays on the enemy when you hover your mouse over it.


To me the discussion in this thread only makes some kind of sense to me if tx3000 is taking about MaxInnateChanceToHit, while the rest of you are talking about ActualChanceToHitTarget.
Posted By: Elwyn Re: Deciding to be an archer - READ THIS FIRST - 06/08/14 07:55 AM
@Ivra, yes, you are right, although I would write the formula a little bit different:

ActualChanceToHitTarget = YourOffenceRating - Enemy'sDefenceRating - modifiers.

You can not see the MaxInnateChanceToHit anywhere in the game - or better to say it is encoded in your offence rating and is not really a percentage number.

@tx3000, regarding the offence rating and its application to melee or archery. Please read the description of dexterity AND strength AND offence rating. I am quoting this again from the wiki webpage (since I have no time right now to launch the game). You can read the description of the strength attribute when hovering over it in the character screen (as you did with dexterity):

Strength
Boosts Man-at-Arms skills
+20 Weight per point (base 10)
+6 Offense Rating per point for Strength-based Weapons

Dexterity
Boosts Expert Marksman skills
Boosts Scoundrel skills
+5 Defense rating per point above 5? (base 4xLevel)
+6 Offense Rating per point for Dexterity-Based Weapons

So, both strength and dexterity determine your offence rating: strength for melee weapons, dexterity for ranged weapons (and daggers). Your offence rating is the parameter which is (together with enemy's defence and other modifiers) determines your chance to hit.


FYI, you can get 16 perception without putting a single point in it.
9/10. Would enjoy being trolled again!
Originally Posted by ivra
To me the discussion in this thread only makes some kind of sense to me if tx3000 is taking about MaxInnateChanceToHit, while the rest of you are talking about ActualChanceToHitTarget.

Good observation. I think you're exactly right. I think I might have mentioned that (less clearly than you) in one of my post, but at this point I can't really remember.


I have a feeling tx3000 is fighting against creatures a couple levels higher than him, and possibly playing on hard mode. Assuming that's the case (since he didn't answer my questions), his MaxInnate is actually around 80-90% with Dex 11, and its being reduced ~10% per dexterity increase of the creatures above him, and 10% for the hard difficulty setting. That would put his ActualChance at around 49%, so I think that all makes sense.

Since dex increases a creatures/players defense rating, and that reduces ActualChance, it makes sense that more dextrous creatures are harder to hit (eg Immaculate archers and assassins), and that's something I've oberserved as well. And it wouldn't surprise me if tx3000 was using the worst case example.

Also, another possibility: tx3000 is mistaking his Offensive Rating for an Offensive Percentage. But even if that was the case, there's no way his Offensive Rating would show 49 with dex 11 and a bow equipped. Which leads to yet another question: has he actually equipped a bow?? Since he talks about special ammo damage, we could assume so.... but since he also thinks that dex goes into Offensive Rating, while str does not, it's entirely possible he looked at his Offensive "Percentage" without a bow equipped and got frustrated.



Now the (un-tx3000-related) question that still remains for me is: does the level of the creature ITSELF reduce ActualChance to hit, apart from an expected increase in dex as creatures "level"? I think it does, but haven't really confirmed that.
Originally Posted by Armakoir
Now the (un-tx3000-related) question that still remains for me is: does the level of the creature ITSELF reduce ActualChance to hit, apart from an expected increase in dex as creatures "level"? I think it does, but haven't really confirmed that.

No it cannot REDUCE the chance, it adjusts the chance based off you're current %.

An adjusted lower total is not the same thing as an actual reduction in the % itself.
Quote
Does the level of the creature ITSELF reduce ActualChance to hit, apart from an expected increase in dex as creatures "level"? I think it does, but haven't really confirmed that.


Pretty sure it does, but no numbers to prove it.

Does offence rating scale with level as well as defence rating? That could be it.

The test would be trying the same fight at two different levels, without changing stats, and comparing your offence ratings. If offence rating doesn't change but % hit chance does, then it is a purely level-based thing.

I would prefer if it wasn't, as having things readable on the character sheet and less hidden from the player is more favourable for me personally.

Do daggers actually scale off Dex?
Originally Posted by Damar Stiehl
Do daggers actually scale off Dex?


Yes, definitely. Rogues (classless game, I know, dex builds) wouldn't be able to hit with them at all if they didn't
The level is a big factor when it comes down to calculating the chance to hit (which can easily be verified with the help of a henchman).
Lvl 20 archer with 100 offence point blank vs a lvl 22 char with 189 defence: chance to hit 37%
Lvl 22 archer with 100 offence point blank vs a lvl 22 char with 189 defence: chance to hit 61%

It is worth noting that the defence of the archer increased from 105 to 113 as well.
Thanks for the confirmation.

So chance to hit =

offence rating factor +/- level difference factor - defence rating factor +/- other factors (range dropoff for bow/xbow, blind, curse, bless etc.)

Defaults to 100% if enemy is incapacitated.
Posted By: hysteria25 Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 06/08/14 06:12 PM
@tx3000 you are a scrub can you please just uninstall the game and never post on these forums again?
Posted By: Raze Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 06/08/14 06:20 PM

If you click on a user's name and then 'View profile' there is an option to 'Ignore this user'.
Posted By: Armakoir Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 06/08/14 06:49 PM
Originally Posted by Raze

If you click on a user's name and then 'View profile' there is an option to 'Ignore this user'.

Awesomely, it works like this:
http://youtu.be/9F8fee9bt60?t=20s
Posted By: tarasis Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 06/08/14 09:17 PM
It's fascinating googling and reading stuff about/from tx3000 (yes apparently I have spare time, I should be gaming but anyway). He's been banned 2 or 3 times from Steam / various Steam forums and at least 4 other forums elsewhere.
Posted By: PandaCatapault Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 07/08/14 01:22 AM
Man, this thread is so bad it's good.
Posted By: tx3000 Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 07/08/14 02:02 AM
Originally Posted by tarasis
It's fascinating googling and reading stuff about/from tx3000 (yes apparently I have spare time, I should be gaming but anyway). He's been banned 2 or 3 times from Steam / various Steam forums and at least 4 other forums elsewhere.

He's been banned? You meant to say there were some people with the user name tx3000 that were banned.

You see people This is exactly why I say Steam users are brainwashed and why you do not converse with Steam users, they're just way too stupid to be talking to.

Steam users are the only ones who think a user name is all the same person because Google pulls up results out of the entire Internet and then use some dumb ass logic that doesn't even have any merit to justify themselves.

They are also famous for pulling this bullshit:

Checking the Steam account you happen to be posting with for the game being talked about and if they dont' find it ON THAT ACCOUNT, then they start up on the person saying they automatically pirated the game and don't even own it.

They then complain to the moderators that you're condoning piracy and all this other horseshit their little narrow brain washed mind can dig up.
Posted By: Mangoose Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 07/08/14 04:33 AM
I recently noticed 50-75% chance to hit with archery with 9-10 (I forget) Dexterity, and that was with enemies 2 levels higher. And aren't Special Arrows auto-hit? At least AOE terrain ones are.. can't miss the ground.
Posted By: Mirza Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 07/08/14 05:28 AM
Originally Posted by tarasis
It's fascinating googling and reading stuff about/from tx3000 (yes apparently I have spare time, I should be gaming but anyway). He's been banned 2 or 3 times from Steam / various Steam forums and at least 4 other forums elsewhere.


Yeah.Same sort of issues with games. Same antagonistic style. Same writing style with all-caps rage emphasis. But it can't be the same guy.
Posted By: tarasis Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 07/08/14 08:03 AM
Originally Posted by tx3000
Originally Posted by tarasis
It's fascinating googling and reading stuff about/from tx3000 (yes apparently I have spare time, I should be gaming but anyway). He's been banned 2 or 3 times from Steam / various Steam forums and at least 4 other forums elsewhere.

He's been banned? You meant to say there were some people with the user name tx3000 that were banned.

You see people This is exactly why I say Steam users are brainwashed and why you do not converse with Steam users, they're just way too stupid to be talking to.


Given the writing styles, the general tone of posts and similar attitudes of those steam users to you (including the same complaint about using British English spellings rather than American English), yes I would fairly confidently say they are you. One of them most definitely was linked to your MPC4Utube Youtube account where you rant about Divnity: Original Sin.

Originally Posted by tx3000

Steam users are the only ones who think a user name is all the same person because Google pulls up results out of the entire Internet and then use some dumb ass logic that doesn't even have any merit to justify themselves.


Oh I didn't just google, I actually read the posts in the Van Helsing Steam forums & Watch Dog forums and look at the profiles & alternate names the profile has used. Likewise those on GOG, Neocore and so on. They use the same style as here, the same verbal bashing, and so on. I didn't just presume on seeing the name tx3000 that it was you.

That said most people I know tend to try and use the same username all over the place. It's easier to remember than having to consulted a list "okay on X I'm xxxxx, on y I'm yyyyyy". Of course one can't always use the same username because someone else gets there first (I'm not the only tarasis but most are me, to my surprise given I made the name up 27 or so years ago for an RPG character, turns out I was beaten to the punch by 1400 or so years, but I'm digressing)

Originally Posted by tx3000

Checking the Steam account you happen to be posting with for the game being talked about and if they dont' find it ON THAT ACCOUNT, then they start up on the person saying they automatically pirated the game and don't even own it.

They then complain to the moderators that you're condoning piracy and all this other horseshit their little narrow brain washed mind can dig up.


Well in theory one shouldn't have more than one steam account (an implication that could be taken from what you've written), but I largely agree that assuming someone has pirated a game/ don't own it because it isn't linked to their Steam account is a stretch UNLESS it's a steam exclusive game. They could have bought the game on GOG or where ever else.

BTW You have said yourself in one of your Youtube videos and on GOG that you will pirate games that are only available on Steam.

Originally Posted by Mirza

Yeah.Same sort of issues with games. Same antagonistic style. Same writing style with all-caps rage emphasis. But it can't be the same guy.


Exactly. Oh this reminds me of the complaints about Action Points not being explained http://www.sorcerers.net/forums/showthread.php?t=50345
Posted By: tx3000 Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 07/08/14 04:10 PM
Originally Posted by Mirza
Yeah.Same sort of issues with games. Same antagonistic style. Same writing style with all-caps rage emphasis. But it can't be the same guy.
Yeah because people never make themselves out to be someone else..That never happens on the internet..no way...no chance of that right.. crazy

Also, saying the same Writing Style makes no sense. Writing style in this case refers to the font being used and everyone uses the same font on every forum due to what fonts are coded into the forum. everyone in this thread all have the same writing style because we all are using the same font.

You're trying to say writing CONTEXT
Posted By: tarasis Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 07/08/14 04:51 PM
No I meant Writing Style

"Writing style refers to the manner in which an author chooses to write to his or her audience. A style reveals both the writer's personality and voice, but it also shows how she or he perceives the audience. The choice of a conceptual writing style molds the overall character of the work. This occurs through changes in syntactical structure, parsing prose, adding diction, and organizing figures of thought into usable frameworks" - http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Writing_style

"Style: A particular procedure by which something is done; a manner or way"

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/style

"Style in fiction refers to the language conventions used to construct the story. A fiction writer can manipulate diction, sentence structure, phrasing, dialogue, and other aspects of language to create style." http://bcs.bedfordstmartins.com/virtualit/fiction/elements.asp?e=5
Posted By: Aslam Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 07/08/14 04:55 PM
Originally Posted by tarasis
No I meant Writing Style

"Writing style refers to the manner in which an author chooses to write to his or her audience. A style reveals both the writer's personality and voice, but it also shows how she or he perceives the audience. The choice of a conceptual writing style molds the overall character of the work. This occurs through changes in syntactical structure, parsing prose, adding diction, and organizing figures of thought into usable frameworks" - http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Writing_style

"Style: A particular procedure by which something is done; a manner or way"

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/style

"Style in fiction refers to the language conventions used to construct the story. A fiction writer can manipulate diction, sentence structure, phrasing, dialogue, and other aspects of language to create style." http://bcs.bedfordstmartins.com/virtualit/fiction/elements.asp?e=5


Dont feed the Trolls.

This thread should be closed, TX3000 is obvious the basement-fat-boy trying to receive attention...
Posted By: Escadin Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 07/08/14 05:11 PM
Archer who just "onshotted" Trife with arrow spray + soulsnap + oath + bully says you're dead wrong.
Posted By: tarasis Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 07/08/14 05:33 PM
Originally Posted by Aslam
Dont feed the Trolls.


Normally i agree and have even said that myself before, though it's probably better to feed him here than in another thread and maybe he'll learn something along the way. Like how to make an archer recipe, or the Coca Cola cake, some other wonderful concoction or even that it's writing style. wink

Maybe the mods can sticky it to the very bottom of the forum so it doesn't get bumped smile
Posted By: Mirza Re: Why does archery suck so bad? - 07/08/14 05:39 PM
Originally Posted by tx3000
Originally Posted by Mirza
Yeah.Same sort of issues with games. Same antagonistic style. Same writing style with all-caps rage emphasis. But it can't be the same guy.
Yeah because people never make themselves out to be someone else..That never happens on the internet..no way...no chance of that right.. crazy

Also, saying the same Writing Style makes no sense. Writing style in this case refers to the font being used and everyone uses the same font on every forum due to what fonts are coded into the forum. everyone in this thread all have the same writing style because we all are using the same font.

You're trying to say writing CONTEXT

Nope. I meant style. See tarasis' post.
No offense. But i seriously think.. is this tx3000 mental?
This thread delivers the comedy gold. Have a baked ziti recipe.


INGREDIENTS:


1 pound dry ziti pasta
1 onion, chopped
1 pound lean ground beef
2 (26 ounce) jars spaghetti sauce
6 ounces provolone cheese, sliced
1 1/2 cups sour cream
6 ounces mozzarella cheese, shredded
2 tablespoons grated Parmesan cheese

DIRECTIONS:


1. Bring a large pot of lightly salted water to a boil. Add ziti pasta, and cook until al dente, about 8 minutes; drain.

2. In a large skillet, brown onion and ground beef over medium heat. Add spaghetti sauce, and simmer 15 minutes.

3. Preheat the oven to 350 degrees F (175 degrees C). Butter a 9x13 inch baking dish. Layer as follows: 1/2 of the ziti, Provolone cheese, sour cream, 1/2 sauce mixture, remaining ziti, mozzarella cheese and remaining sauce mixture. Top with grated Parmesan cheese.

4. Bake for 30 minutes in the preheated oven, or until cheeses are melted.

Posted By: rk47 Re: Deciding to be an archer - READ THIS FIRST - 08/08/14 01:37 AM
Just let him post but make all account ignore him by default.
Archers are underpowered without bows, larian devs pls halp.
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