Larian Studios
Posted By: florps Pressure on developers - 05/09/14 06:51 AM
Since recent events have shown that certain groups try to influence and censor developers.... can we get a boob-plate patch?
Posted By: Saishy Re: Pressure on developers - 05/09/14 07:20 AM
No, it's ugly, not practical and stupid!

http://www.tor.com/blogs/2013/05/boob-plate-armor-would-kill-you
Posted By: florps Re: Pressure on developers - 05/09/14 07:25 AM
i don't think it is ugly or stupid. We are talking about a fantasy game, so the argument about being practical is a bit silly, no? But in any case i would like the developer to decide how he wants to design the characters.
Posted By: Rashar Re: Pressure on developers - 05/09/14 07:35 AM
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in any case i would like the developer to decide how he wants to design the characters.


Then why bother posting the topic?

I'm pretty sure the developers will follow their own path anyway.

With kind regards,

Rashar.
Posted By: florps Re: Pressure on developers - 05/09/14 07:40 AM
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Then why bother posting the topic?


because it is rumored (or more) that people who allegedly fight for more inclusiveness did apply pressure. There is no place for orthodoxy if you want to include a wider audience. I think it is an interesting topic to discuss.
Posted By: dwelfusius Re: Pressure on developers - 05/09/14 07:49 AM
I thought they altered the armor due to a "sh*tstorm* from some stupid people..still regret it. NO censorship, it's their game the designer should have been respected.

And the other armor was WAAAAAY prettier.
Posted By: florps Re: Pressure on developers - 05/09/14 07:59 AM
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it's their game the designer should have been respected.


That is what i meant. There are good arguments that women are depicted unfairly and any criticism is definetly valid. But what i really dislike is pressure applied behind the scences without any discussion that forces a developer to take action. This has nothing to do with progressivness, that is called bullying and has to stop.
Posted By: Rashar Re: Pressure on developers - 05/09/14 08:06 AM
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I think it is an interesting topic to discuss.


Allright, point taken.

But rumors being rumors, I find it hard to believe that the developers would just do something because a part of the player base wants it.

I would assume that either they already wanted to do that, or they themselves don't really care on that topic. To a certain degree a smart developer listens to the feedback and then decides how to use that information.

That being said, I personally don't mind how the armour ingame looks, to me it's something insignificant. It does not alter gameplay in any way shape or form. I can see the developers changing it for the exact same reason.

With kind regards,

Rashar.


Posted By: Emberstrife Re: Pressure on developers - 05/09/14 10:12 AM
Doesn't the game already have "boobplate"? The actual plate armor is a fully covered chestplate, but the leather/mail armors are pretty skimpy.
Posted By: Jachal Re: Pressure on developers - 05/09/14 10:25 AM
I stopped giggling about boobies in the sixth grade. I guess not all of us grow up.
Posted By: florps Re: Pressure on developers - 05/09/14 10:45 AM
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I stopped giggling about boobies in the sixth grade. I guess not all of us grow up.


This is the shaming i meant. I like boobs and i am not ashamed to admit that. Under the curtain of inclusiveness many of these arguments were made. True, there don't have to be skimpy outfits in this game, it is very fine as it is. You could also argue that women might be repelled by skimpy depictions. I could go on a tirade to label you stiffy or congratulate that you mastered the sixth grade or something, but that wouldn't get to anything nor is it the point.
The issue i take has more to do with how developers might be shamed to make certain descisions because people start shitstorms while hiding behind an allegedly higher moral position.
Any by the way my wife likes skimpy outfits too.
Posted By: Cattletech Re: Pressure on developers - 05/09/14 11:15 AM
Amen, women like sexy pictures too. It's only the SJWs with their agendas who mind it.
Posted By: florps Re: Pressure on developers - 05/09/14 11:57 AM
I don't want to put some group in the pillory and i think it is very good there are people caring about social issues. My fear is only, that developers fear to make certain design descisions or announce anything controversial. The boob-plate was just an example because it is a hot topic.
I don't really think the game suffers from more modest depictions of characters. I just want to make sure developers don't get shamed. There are people pushing agenda from all sides. Games are art and art doesn't need to have any moral authority. Imagine Larian really would announce that they made a boob-plate patch. There would be people declaring them gods and people throwing death threats against them. This vitriol has to be adressed before there can be any serious discussion about what problems might be prevalent in the gaming community. I would argue that these problems aren't boob-plates or sexy depictions of characters.
Posted By: Rashar Re: Pressure on developers - 05/09/14 12:26 PM
Well I'm sure the developers will be fine and they should do as they please when it comes down to appearance. Something is only a taboo because people make it one. Can give a million and one examples but I shall not stir it up too much. smile

People who want to push their agenda can push their agenda, seeing as Larian HQ is in Belgium I have faith in my neighbours to just say f*** all to the hypocritical knights of morality.

On a sidenote, topic turned out to be interesting/entertaining, so I do have to take back what I said earlier. *takes hat of*

With kind regards,

Rashar.

Posted By: Jachal Re: Pressure on developers - 05/09/14 12:32 PM
My wife loves skimpy outfits too and that is a wonderful thing! I just don't see a need to turn an RPG into Leisure suit Larry.

Maybe another reason I don't needs pixalated breasts is I actually have a wife? The internet is for porn after all. Why cartoon it when you can see the real thing? I'd rather have more characters and more story added than some 16 year old virgin fapping. Devs can only do so much on a budget.

Posted By: florps Re: Pressure on developers - 05/09/14 01:06 PM
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On a sidenote, topic turned out to be interesting/entertaining


Cool! claphands

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Maybe another reason I don't needs pixalated breasts is I actually have a wife?


Some people might need pixelated breast because they have a wife wink
Very true though, it doesn't really matter in a game like this. I like the art in D:OS like it is very much.
Posted By: Jachal Re: Pressure on developers - 05/09/14 02:51 PM


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Some people might need pixelated breast because they have a wife wink
Very true though, it doesn't really matter in a game like this. I like the art in D:OS like it is very much.


LOL! I love a little augmentation, brought it up but no.... sad
Posted By: Saishy Re: Pressure on developers - 05/09/14 06:43 PM
Originally Posted by florps
i don't think it is ugly or stupid. We are talking about a fantasy game, so the argument about being practical is a bit silly, no? But in any case i would like the developer to decide how he wants to design the characters.

Being a fantasy setting or not has nothing to do with not breaking it's "rules".

It would be like wizards in harry potter sometimes forgetting their wands but casting spells anyway (I know there are some wizards who can cast spells without wands, but it's not all spells, and only a selected few wizards can).
Or a gunfight story where more often than not, people fire more bullets than physically can fit inside their cartridge, while still letting some people be out of ammo in the middle of a fight.

I don't know if you noticed, but D:OS does stand by it's own rules. There are many fantastic elements, sure! But the universe have it's own rules, which are respected to make a coherent story.

Oil burns, poison explodes, liquids get electrified, items are practical and there is physics!
Yes, we have superhuman feats! Warriors can spin their weapons and damage multiple opponents, jump so fast and so fierce that leave burning trails on the ground while reaching far out places. And those rules are not broken.

You can use physics to deal damage, fall high enough and you take damage, throw enemies in the air and they take damage, throw items at people and they take damage.
If you see an fully armored enemy, it's armor is high, people using only clothes have lower armor and you expect fire beasts to be either immune or have high fire resistance.

So, why is there no "boob plate"? Exactly because the game's universe rules wouldn't really fit with it.
I mean, how many fully platted woman there are in an area? How much resources does the city have? Why would the blacksmith even care about doing different armors for man and woman when they clearly don't have enough material to waste. And we are not even talking about the woman's armor being horrible for battle!
Everyone is complaining about people dying left and right, they don't have people to spare, and suggesting making different items that only fit a specific gender would make Aureus laugh at your face.

The game is alive, the city is alive, it's inhabitants are alive. Yes, it is a fantastic setting and as such you wouldn't be shocked to see a skimpy succubus, or a lustful enemy that uses it's look to get the upper hand. But when everything is so detailed having something like, the city guards, wearing skimpy outfits would just be a bucket of cold water on the player's face.
Posted By: Pinky Re: Pressure on developers - 05/09/14 06:54 PM
A lot of armours have heavily accentuated wastes which are just as concave (and thus focusing force) as breast armour ... why don't the armour nerds ever complain about that?
Posted By: Zimith Re: Pressure on developers - 05/09/14 07:39 PM
Fantasy in general has been dominated by boob-plate type of women since the mid 20th century or even earlier, the roots of modern fantasy. In Recent years, some game/movie developers/producers have tried to be more inclusive toward an increasing female audience (+male audience who also happen to be fed up with that crap) and have tried to do away with female tropes. If you try to make it appear like a large, vocal, oppressive are trying to force its views on the gaming industry or the oppressed, poor gamers who like to keep women's appearances to be limited to sexy side kicks, you're mistaken imo. You could count how many game titles/movies released 2014 have female protagonists that kick ass and see how many you get.

The brave thing is to keep boob plates done away with, not the other way around.
Posted By: Cattletech Re: Pressure on developers - 05/09/14 08:19 PM
Why doesn't metal armor protect from electrocution??? zomg!
Posted By: henryv Re: Pressure on developers - 06/09/14 08:48 PM
Everyone critiquing on even the simplest things. That's why we can't have nice things.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB6TiRJNI-Q
Posted By: Arsene Lupin Re: Pressure on developers - 09/09/14 10:01 AM
I feel like everyone is missing the most important point.

Boob-shaped plate armor is important and necessary because only one gender wears it: it provides a visual contrast between male and female characters. The more similar male character and female character models are, the less point there is in choosing one or the other.

This is the same reason its a good thing that DOS' male PC has such a different body shape from the female PC. That his is a generic 'superman' build matters far less than the fact that the design contrasts well with the female body.

Inasmuch as DOS does different genders well, look to Dark Souls for an example of the inverse. Male and female character models and armor models are almost universally identical, so much so that many players in Dark Souls 2 accidentally changed their PC's gender in the tutorial and didn't even notice the difference until dozens of hours later. If there is no difference, no contrast (visually) between male and female character models, then there is absolutely no point in allowing the player to choose a gender at all.
Posted By: ugralitan Re: Pressure on developers - 09/09/14 11:44 AM
Boob-shaped plate armor is NOT important or necessary.

One may argue that there should be a visual contrast between male and female, but when in plate armor it is not necessary to provide a visual cue. The lighter the clothing, the more visual differences will be. If your female and male characters are possessing equally hulking bodies which can fit plate armor...well there is no reason or necessity to feminize that armor. Your female is as bulky as your male after all (probably as ugly as a male). When they remove their armor the difference might be seen clearly.

Of course...if you prefer anime style skinny women with enormous strength and boob-plates...then by all means. As a male, I can say it can be quite attractive but in logic it fails miserably.

My point is, in a RPG, the gender differences should be used in optional solutions, side quests, body shape (which becomes similar for each gender under heavy garment, different with lighter garment), portraits, dialogues etc. Thus boob-shaped plate armor is simply overrated.
Posted By: TPSullivan1 Baldur's Gate Forums Has Similar Thread - 09/09/14 06:38 PM
All - this topic (armor for female characters in RPGs) is also under discussion at the Baldur's Gate Forums. Plenty of examples of not-really-functional-but-certainly-eye-catching female armor, with some comments from trolls but also some serious discussions of what constitutes practical armor for a female RPG character.

Note: there should not be any nudity in that forum but there is surely some very-close-to-nude images.

http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/21721/unrealistic-fantasy-art/p1
Posted By: Zebulahn Re: Baldur's Gate Forums Has Similar Thread - 09/09/14 07:08 PM
Honestly, the impracticality of boob-shaped armour never occurred to me the all. I think it is an understandable mistake. RPGs aren't simulations after all. RPG designers and graphic artists can't be expected to be experts on medieval warfare.

That said, it goes to show the problem of highly-detailed graphics for complex games like RPGs: the greater the amount of graphical detail, the more likely you will get those details wrong. This was never a problem in the DOS days. I prefer the old pixel art style myself. Often it is better to leave things to the imagination... I'm not sure the RPG genre benefits from detailed 3D graphics, at least not enough to justify the extra cost of development and the need to appeal to wider audience - i.e. dumb down the game - because of those extra costs.

That's another thing. Hardcore RPGers hate seeing RPGs being dumbed down as they are now. So why wouldn't they want the armour designs to make sense? I expect my RPGs to not be dumb. RPG is a thinking man (and woman's) game. It's about setting, story, decision-making, tactics, etc. RPGers shouldn't have to turn off their brains to play RPGs. That pretty goes against what RPGs are about in the first place...
Posted By: Mr. C Re: Baldur's Gate Forums Has Similar Thread - 10/09/14 07:47 AM
To be blunt everyone and their brother knows what's going on in the gaming community right now. See: Internet Aristocrat and his Five guys Theory (just to start) if you live under the proverbial rock.

While I didn't think game review sites and gaming news in general was in anyway "fair".. the degree of shameless ideology pushing was just jawdropping.
Posted By: florps Re: Baldur's Gate Forums Has Similar Thread - 10/09/14 09:53 AM
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To be blunt everyone and their brother knows what's going on in the gaming community right now.


I wanted to hint at that topic to be honest. I describe myself as a feminist. The gaming community serioulsy has to take criticism from Anita. S and co. Not all her points might be correct, but there is some truth in her videos. There is also sexism in video games and the community.
That aside, I think discussing feminism honestly is all the advertising feminism needs. What journalists write these days is below any form of integrity. We have the same problems in the industry and there is research that we are unconsciously sexist*. The best remedy is informing people about it. Not starting an ideological crusade against a "culture".

edit: *unconsciously sexist mostly without ill attemts, if i look at the gaming community.
Posted By: henryv Re: Baldur's Gate Forums Has Similar Thread - 10/09/14 01:08 PM
Originally Posted by florps
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To be blunt everyone and their brother knows what's going on in the gaming community right now.


I wanted to hint at that topic to be honest. I describe myself as a feminist. The gaming community serioulsy has to take criticism from Anita. S and co. Not all her points might be correct, but there is some truth in her videos. There is also sexism in video games and the community.
That aside, I think discussing feminism honestly is all the advertising feminism needs. What journalists write these days is below any form of integrity. We have the same problems in the industry and there is research that we are unconsciously sexist*. The best remedy is informing people about it. Not starting an ideological crusade against a "culture".

edit: *unconsciously sexist mostly without ill attemts, if i look at the gaming community.


The problem with Anita is that she herself is not credible that's why most people just hate her not because she's a woman.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57tXyqPCOCM

I really don't care for a woman's appearance in a video game and I also don't care about a man's appearance. It's depends on how you really sexualize a person's appearance and put it into context.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB6TiRJNI-Q

If you ask me, I really prefer the game play rather than the appearance. I could only tolerate the graphics of the game from SNES era and not dwarf fortress kind of graphics. I've been playing games since SNES era, that's why I don't usually think of big boobies whenever there is one on my screen.
Posted By: florps Re: Baldur's Gate Forums Has Similar Thread - 10/09/14 01:22 PM
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The problem with Anita is that she herself is not credible that's why most people just hate her not because she's a woman.


Many people didn't allow to criticize her. Her videos do have factual errors. It is actually sexist and patronizing to not allow any negative comment. That aside she received quite a lot of hate for only stating her view as an outsider. No excuse for the one-sided narative from journalists though. In my opinion they lack the integrity to be an inspiring example.
Posted By: Pinky Re: Baldur's Gate Forums Has Similar Thread - 11/09/14 09:57 PM
She didn't present herself as an outsider in her kickstarter pitch ...

2012 : "I love playing video games but I'm regularly disappointed in the limited and limiting ways women are represented."

2010 : "I am not a fan of video games, I actually had to learn a lot about video games in the process of making this"

Possible, not entirely likely.
Posted By: florps Re: Baldur's Gate Forums Has Similar Thread - 12/09/14 06:48 AM
doesn't really matter. ciriticism in every form is always valuable.
Posted By: Pinky Re: Baldur's Gate Forums Has Similar Thread - 12/09/14 12:00 PM
Then there is nothing wrong with criticizing her disingenuous and manipulative character :p

To get back on topic ... I think for the historical angle we shouldn't forget there are large forces driving women who want to wear armour at all into armour similar shaped to males. They don't want to stand out on the battlefield if they are actually combatants and getting armour specifically crafted for them is more expensive.

If we assume a fantasy society where men and women are equally physically capable and equally represented in armed forces both of these forces disappear ... and the same forces driving modern female body armour to uniboob designs come to the fore. Especially for armour which allows some articulation in the stomach region uniboob female armour just makes far more sense than unisex.

For plate unisex makes a little more sense, just making the curve a little larger and leaving more room at the stomach can work ... on the other hand, it's wasted material. When fully half of combatants is women then especially for custom fit armour the uniboob wins out again.

Unisex armour mostly only makes sense for flatchested women in egalitarian fantasy settings.
Posted By: florps Re: Baldur's Gate Forums Has Similar Thread - 12/09/14 12:46 PM
I agree but I think most women would fit comfortably in male armor too. But it is to question if we need to be realistic in fantasy settings. If ressources allow it, there should be a litte bit of both in my opinion.

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Then there is nothing wrong with criticizing her disingenuous and manipulative character :p


come on, give her a chance... everyone who wants to raise awareness to something could be called "manipulative".
Posted By: henryv Re: Baldur's Gate Forums Has Similar Thread - 21/09/14 11:17 AM
Originally Posted by florps

come on, give her a chance... everyone who wants to raise awareness to something could be called "manipulative".


We should get rid of the weeds first to see the clear picture of the landscape. When I said weeds, they are those people who push for ideologies when their actions contradicted to what they want to portray. TL;DR hypocrites.

I've never heard anything about gamers gate discussion until 6 hours ago. You have to thank the alleged censorship. I'm truly concerned about gaming as a whole. It becomes ridden with politics and not into making games anymore.

EDIT: When I said clear picture, this is what I want to see. Not cherry picking parts of the game.
Posted By: synra Re: Baldur's Gate Forums Has Similar Thread - 21/09/14 05:17 PM
Many thanks for the gamergate link smile

It is a conversation I had not encountered, and yet it captures some of a dissatisfaction I have experienced yet struggled to explain. I believe a large part of this is simply witnessing a lack of imagination in current journalism (a chance irony, given criticisms currently levied against developers).

Personally, I have rarely encountered the word 'trope(s)' until it began to appear in every such discussion. To clarify, I see this as symptomatic of an idea copy/paste rather than the issue itself. A homogenization of language tends to reflect a homogenization of thought, or if you like: plagiarism (failing to cite that the bulk of ideas in your writing are not your own). I would mind such articles less if the authors bothered to contribute to the discussion in a meaningful way. If not corrupt, such endless repetitions are at a minimum extremely dull.

This is not to say that I identify with a side, I remain my own smile
Posted By: eRe4s3r Re: Baldur's Gate Forums Has Similar Thread - 22/09/14 08:30 AM
tropes are a thing since ancient times, they exist since literature spawned it's first critics. And are you saying you never heard of TVTROPES ? -> tvtropes.org

tvtropes also being the far better way to spend your time than watching her videos. At least on TV tropes you really learn something about tropes and how they are used.
Posted By: synra Re: Baldur's Gate Forums Has Similar Thread - 22/09/14 08:50 AM
Rarely encountered is different to only just discovered. I'm talking about frequency of use. Obviously such is subjective, and it will depend where you read. Personally, I've read a lot of tech journalism over the last 8 or so years, and this is my experience.
Posted By: florps Re: Pressure on developers - 22/09/14 09:16 AM
I also see a front between consumers and content creators here. Every forum moderator probably could tell you about that. The vitriol you have to endure from online communities must be tiring, because many people vent their frustrations this way. Maybe this is especially prevalent in the gaming community.

I also don't like the focus on identity politics, but I also think that nobody should have to endure bomb threats for bringing it up sad . Imagine their positions. Their families and friends are also affected by this.

The timing of certain articles was probably bad,
but i don't think "twitter bombs" are the correct answer.
I am a fan of drama, but the popcorn got stale very fast. I think if someone sees something as sexist, that is their interpretation of reality. It doesn't have to be sexist for everybody, but we could at least try to address their concerns in a civil matter. You also have to acknowledge the possibility to be wrong.

Trust in the press promoting these issues is so low, that people already start to believe in conspiracies. It is a hard life we have to endure, if people caring for "social justice" are waiting behind every corner to jump on you wink. Addressing this lack of trust would be a good start to have a discussion.

Hate stems from ignorance and being unloved, but we should remember that nobody wants to hate and we should always give other people the benefit of the doubt by default. Many people seem to have their personal boogeyman on both "sides". That is not a good standpoint to resolve disagreements.

Posted By: henryv Re: Pressure on developers - 22/09/14 01:38 PM
You guys might have misinterpreted my post as threatening. It doesn't necessarily mean bomb threats, I'm not that kind of a person and it's really low if you do it like this. I think the entire community in GG focuses on boycotting the said journalists and instead promoting those that are with legitimate concerns. If you have read what happened with The Fine Young Capitalists you'll understand.

The problem with some in the community is that some of them are out of control or we don't know if it's just propaganda. 01% would make any kind of threats to be "edgy" or they just have attitude problems. Problem is that these threats are enlarged to represent the gaming community which is actually isn't the case. What was funny is the bomb reporting made just recently (on a single date). So, we couldn't just trash the idea that the threats are just mere fabrication.
Posted By: henryv Re: Pressure on developers - 10/10/14 02:44 PM
This might be relevant to the topic at hand.
http://www.larian.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=556747#Post556747

A well researched, sources cited, and balanced article about GamerGate.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...eogames_124244.html#.VDbWmQ7vAYQ.twitter

#GamerGate Is Not A Hate Group, It's A Consumer Movement

Debate stream:

#GamerGate Crush Saga: Episode One

Posted By: Thorsten Re: Pressure on developers - 12/10/14 09:27 PM
Gamer Gate reached Germanyï½´s most influential newspaper, the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung FAZ:

http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtscha...gen-in-sicherheit-gebracht-13204256.html

Without going into details about the struggle, the newspaper writes that a female games developer had to be protected by the police after having received serious murder threats.

If that is true it is more than sad.

Regards,
Thorsten
Posted By: henryv Re: Pressure on developers - 13/10/14 09:44 AM
Originally Posted by Thorsten
Gamer Gate reached Germanyï½´s most influential newspaper, the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung FAZ:

http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtscha...gen-in-sicherheit-gebracht-13204256.html

Without going into details about the struggle, the newspaper writes that a female games developer had to be protected by the police after having received serious murder threats.

If that is true it is more than sad.

Regards,
Thorsten


I already covered that on the other thread. If that is true, yes that is sad.
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There has been recent events that people received "doxx" or threat reports from anti-gg, but when pro-gg received the same, they were silent.

https://twitter.com/GGfeminist/status/520754494313754624

The person who have received the "threat" on the first picture is a known troll. So, I will leave it to you to decide whether or not you want to believe it.

https://archive.today/ApOy0
https://archive.today/PjNM4

And if you did find the tweet about the "threat/doxx" the messages doesn't even state #Gamergate, yet the tweeter manages to connect both #Gamergate and the messages.


There shouldn't be a focus on this issue though because what we're fighting against is the corruption in gaming media. One act of a person, again, doesn't represent the group.
Posted By: Noaloha Re: Pressure on developers - 14/10/14 12:33 PM
Ewww. This #GG stuff is happening here? Gross.


Originally Posted by henryv
what we're fighting against is the corruption in gaming media.


Don't be silly, no you're not. The 'fight' is far too targeted and specific for such a description. It's another right-wing MRA movement, trying to stifle progressive voices within the industry.

Which is all that needs to be said. But for the sake of making a proper argument when such a thing is so rare from inside the #GG box, I'll leave this here:

Milo Yiannopoulos, Adam Baldwin, etc.? Real noble, gracious spokespeople GamerGate has there, huh? They're not at all notorious in their political leanings, right? Oh no, no sir. Ha.

I know as well as you do that Milo, Baldwin, etc. don't give two meaningful craps about some writer giving full disclosure in a videogame review. They're in it because the 'enemy' of Gamergate has always been females situated outside of the status quo. The same old, tired, somewhat pathetic and desperate, Men's Rights Activism battle. Jeez, you have Breitbart and Vox Day -- Vox Day! -- as champions for the hashtag. Good lord. These are your frontline voices! Fighting for friendly videogame integrity? Give me a break.

Your catch-all, unspecific, honourable-sounding, sanitised recruitment pamphlet headline - "fighting against the corruption in gaming media" - is demonstrably horseshit, since copious examples of questionable activity have gone, are going and will continue to go entirely unchallenged. The only 'corruption' the movement targets is the conspiratorial "SJWs are controlling the press". That's it. Please change your recruitment pamphlet's agenda from "fighting against the corruption in gaming media" to "fighting against the influence of vaginas in gaming media". At least start from a point of honesty.
Posted By: Jito463 Re: Pressure on developers - 14/10/14 03:19 PM
Originally Posted by Noaloha
It's another right-wing MRA movement, trying to stifle progressive voices within the industry.


Oh, brother....

Originally Posted by Noaloha
Please change your recruitment pamphlet's agenda from "fighting against the corruption in gaming media" to "fighting against the influence of (women) in gaming media". At least start from a point of honesty.


*sigh* rolleyes
Posted By: Noaloha Re: Pressure on developers - 14/10/14 04:44 PM
Originally Posted by Jito463
Oh, brother....

Nice refutation, well considered and poignant. Good example of the hashtag's reluctance to engage with specifics. Thanks for the help.

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*sigh* rolleyes

It's called metonymy. Or, I guess more specifically, synecdoche. It's a literary device, in the above example used as a way of lessening a gender. The 'influence of vaginas' thing was/is? a fairly common phrase used on Gamergate sites 8chan and KotakuInAction.

If you outright deny that large aspects of the hashtag inescapably align with anti-social justice issues, then you're ignorant or a liar.

My point stands: "fighting against the corruption in gaming media" is deceptively vague and demonstrably untrue. The hashtag is fighting against a very specific kind of perceived corruption ('SJW's are secretly trying to manipulate our media), to wit, a conspiracy theory.
Posted By: Thorsten Re: Pressure on developers - 14/10/14 05:29 PM
For an older outsider non Anglo Sexonian this dispute is fairly amusing and juvenile enough to remind oneself on ones own younger days.

So please continue.

Regards,
Thorsten
Posted By: Jito463 Re: Pressure on developers - 14/10/14 10:42 PM
I don't read Kotaku or 8chan (never even heard of it), and to be honest I'm not even following the whole "gamergate" crap. Also, I don't use twitter. My whole issue with your post is your attempt to politicize it with the "right wing" comment, thus attempting to debase an entire political leaning with your own twisted POV.

I was simply too tired at the time of my original post to even attempt to form a coherent response to such nonsense.
Posted By: Noaloha Re: Pressure on developers - 15/10/14 07:41 AM
That's not an 'attempt to politicise', like I'm inserting politics into something that is apolitical. I'm not skewing something. It's a description of what the hashtag largely stands for, by any definitions you care to use. Read up on the Gamergate crap, none of this is exactly hidden. I trust you understand the usefulness in describing political leanings when they're intrinsic to it. Your 'debase' thing is a conclusion I don't follow; I don't know if that's a perceived slight on your end or a misunderstanding.

Given the ugliness surrounding the whole thing at the moment, I feel like sighing and rolling eyes is a little crass, but again as you said, you're not following the matter.
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