Larian Studios

balancing patch beta (Steam)

Posted By: Raze

balancing patch beta (Steam) - 16/12/14 05:41 AM


There is now a beta branch on Steam for a balancing update (currently just Windows), to get suggestions and feedback. The basic goal is to speed up combat; see below for details.

This is a beta, so there may be changes in future beta updates that break save compatibility. Any progress made during the beta period will most likely be lost. You will, however, have a chance to influence the implementation of this set of balancing changes.

The beta will load saves from the current version of the game, but of course should you choose to revert back to 1.0.219 you would not be able to load beta saves.


Anyone interested in trying the beta update and providing feedback, please contact me by PM or email (raze@larian.com).


changelist
- bug fixes and minor changes to several combat encounters
- Rebalanced Constitution & Damage: from LUC to DAF, overall, creatures go down faster but deal more damage.
- Nerfed Armor: some Armor scores were too high, resulting in unnecessarily long fights.
- Rebalanced Initiative: some creatures had too high an Init, some others none at all. NPC Init scores will now be closer to players'.
- Rebalanced Willpower & Bodybuilding throughout the game.
- Rebalanced physical & magical resistances: some were high for no reason.
- Some creatures had really high Dex and were difficult to hit for no reason.
- Pure elementals (fire, water, air, earth) now have proper resistances & immunities.
- Magic weapons: before, e.g., a flaming sword would inflict pure fire damage; now, it inflicts physical (slashing) damage + a fire boost.
Posted By: Stabbey

Re: balancing patch beta (Steam) - 16/12/14 01:11 PM

So in other words, if I try this out, I can continue from where I am right now, but the saves will break and I'll have to go back to Cyseal, and there will be no way to opt out of the beta and continue with the saves I made before starting the beta?

If that's the case, I can't try it, I haven't finished the game and don't want to lose all my progress.
Posted By: Norbyte

Re: balancing patch beta (Steam) - 16/12/14 07:05 PM

You can backup your saves though and later restore them after reverting to the original branch from the beta one. They're compatible with the original game after all.

Edit: nvm, I thought "all my progress" meant progress in the non-beta game.
Posted By: Raze

Re: balancing patch beta (Steam) - 16/12/14 08:58 PM


No, if you revert back to the current release, you can load any pre-beta save. It is just that the current release will not be able to load saves made in the beta version. I'll clarify that in the original post.

There is a possibility of loosing progress during the beta, if there are significant changes made that would make maintaining beta to beta save game compatibility unfeasible. On the other hand, if only minor tweaks are made, there could potentially not be any progress lost (don't know if or what further changes are planned before the general release).

It would probably be a good idea to create a new profile for the beta and then copy your latest save folder there, so you will not overwrite any current quicksaves or autosaves, etc.
Posted By: Baardvark

Re: balancing patch beta (Steam) - 17/12/14 01:42 AM

Sounds wicked, the exact kind of changes I was hoping for, though still looking forward to new skills and whatnot. Perhaps Larian might look into speeding up certain animations, cutting down on the delay after performing an action, or perhaps even adding a global combat speed slider like they did in Wasteland 2. Also, I think the popularity of +walk speed mods speaks volumes about the slowness of the walking speed outside of combat. Given that most players have already played the game and would like to replay the game with less tedium, perhaps they might increase move speed in the vanilla game.
Posted By: Horrorscope

Re: balancing patch beta (Steam) - 19/12/14 03:51 PM

Yeah, I think I'll take this for a spin. I love mods, but every time there is an update, I have to hand update 1000's of tweaks made to balance, at least how I do it editing the spreadsheets and running the macro. Would like to see how much better it is vanilla.

And 100 yes's to Baardvark talking about places to allow us to adjust speed. A pretty common thing in TB games now is a combat speed slider, this needs it. And walking speed, that one I had to mod, but in game all the better.
Posted By: Baardvark

Re: balancing patch beta (Steam) - 20/12/14 05:19 AM

Downloading a 220mb update after having updated for the beta patch already... Is this part of the beta? More changes? Or am I just getting a fluke somehow...
Posted By: Raze

Re: balancing patch beta (Steam) - 20/12/14 05:51 AM


There was an update for the beta; I don't have a changelist, or know what any of the changes were (other than the version number going from 1.0.63.265 to 1.0.64.198).
Posted By: TGM

Re: balancing patch beta (Steam) - 21/12/14 07:19 PM

How much time it can take? And patch progress.
Posted By: Raze

Re: balancing patch beta (Steam) - 22/12/14 03:05 AM


The current beta version will go for at least a couple weeks. Depending on feedback and other factors there could be additional beta updates. I don't know what the expected timeframe for release is; I assume January.
Posted By: TGM

Re: balancing patch beta (Steam) - 22/12/14 09:23 AM

Thx
Posted By: Stabbey

Re: balancing patch beta (Steam) - 29/12/14 05:32 PM

I've just finished the game, so now's a great time to try the beta. Just to be clear, though...


All full-game saves are compatible with the beta version.
All beta saves may not be compatible with beta updates...
But after the beta updates, full-game saves will still be compatible with the updated beta?

Have I got that right? If so, that'll work fine for me. I can just load any old saves from whenever to try out different areas. That sounds good.
Posted By: Raze

Re: balancing patch beta (Steam) - 29/12/14 09:47 PM


Yes, you got that right.
Posted By: TGM

Re: balancing patch beta (Steam) - 03/01/15 04:03 AM

About balance.
Do you work on perks, stats, spells?
Posted By: Raze

Re: balancing patch beta (Steam) - 03/01/15 04:47 AM


Yes, there should be some balancing changes to spells, abilities and talents, etc, in a future update.
Posted By: TGM

Re: balancing patch beta (Steam) - 03/01/15 11:29 AM

It would be nice. But how long it can take?

But i'll w8 for balance patch, and then walk through game again.
Posted By: Raze

Re: balancing patch beta (Steam) - 03/01/15 11:47 AM


I don't know when the balance patch is planned for. The last kickstarter update video said there would be things to announce this month, but I don't know what, or how far in advance they will be announced.
Posted By: TGM

Re: balancing patch beta (Steam) - 04/01/15 06:48 AM

Originally Posted by Raze

I don't know when the balance patch is planned for. The last kickstarter update video said there would be things to announce this month, but I don't know what, or how far in advance they will be announced.


kk will w8.
And i can't w8 for new game from Larian studios.
Posted By: Zachb34

Re: balancing patch beta (Steam) - 05/01/15 08:37 PM

This game is great! But there are a few major problems I have with it.

- Movement speed is wayyyyy too slow.
- Combat animations take wayyyy too long.
- Balance tweaks - Hunters being able to escape combat, makes for cheesing fights as you can just kill one mob, leave, heal up, go back, rinse-repeat.
- Leech + Bloodletting is super over-powered. You should not able to cast blood letting on your allies in combat.

I understand that some people enjoy this, but a combat speed and movement speed options slider would offer the best of both worlds to the players. Let us decide the speed we want to experience Divinity at.

Posted By: john carmack

Re: balancing patch beta (Steam) - 07/01/15 01:39 PM

Any news? When will the patch leave the BETA Status?

I have the GOG Version.

What about a new big Patch in the next weeks?
Posted By: Stabbey

Re: balancing patch beta (Steam) - 07/01/15 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by john carmack
Any news? When will the patch leave the BETA Status?

I have the GOG Version.

What about a new big Patch in the next weeks?


Also a follow-up Larian what are next week's lottery numbers?


Those questions are not really possible to answer. Not only do they have to decide what goes into a patch, they also have to finish the patch, and then do a lot of testing to make sure it doesn't break the game. There's no point in them giving an answer because it is sheer guesswork. Any delays and then the answer they gave is wrong and then people get mad at them for not being able to predict the future.
Posted By: zenblack

Re: balancing patch beta (Steam) - 10/01/15 09:14 PM

So in addition to all the other minor bugs I have run into the Co-Op killing bug where the second player doesn't have any stats. After eventually finding out this is a bug that has been around for a long time there is no solution suggested that has worked. Is this issue fixed in the next patch? If so will it work retroactively or is this game now dead in the water. It has turned a 'great game' into a game my co-op partner won't play if it can reasonably happen again. And no, I bought the game on GoG, which apparently nets me poorer service because that's the way Larian works.
Posted By: Raze

Re: balancing patch beta (Steam) - 10/01/15 09:48 PM


AFAIK Larian has not been able to find a reliable way to reproduce this issue, and there is no fix yet. I fail to see how GOG not having any support for betas has anything to do with Larian.
Posted By: Woland

Re: balancing patch beta (Steam) - 11/01/15 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by zenblack
So in addition to all the other minor bugs I have run into the Co-Op killing bug where the second player doesn't have any stats. After eventually finding out this is a bug that has been around for a long time there is no solution suggested that has worked. Is this issue fixed in the next patch? If so will it work retroactively or is this game now dead in the water. It has turned a 'great game' into a game my co-op partner won't play if it can reasonably happen again. And no, I bought the game on GoG, which apparently nets me poorer service because that's the way Larian works.

Do you mean when in Co-Op a player has 5 of each stats sometimes?

I'd hardly call that Co-Op killing bug, as it's only a visual/UI bug. You can just do a quicksave and then reload (multiple times if you have to, though).

Your stats are still actually there, your equipment is on as well and your Co-op mate can still see everything just fine.
Posted By: zenblack

Re: balancing patch beta (Steam) - 11/01/15 06:52 PM

Quote
Do you mean when in Co-Op a player has 5 of each stats sometimes?

I'd hardly call that Co-Op killing bug, as it's only a visual/UI bug. You can just do a quicksave and then reload (multiple times if you have to, though).

Your stats are still actually there, your equipment is on as well and your Co-op mate can still see everything just fine.


Nope. The one where they are all 5 and it isn't just visual, you lose all talents. If you unequip an item and attempt to equip it back and it has a requirement it won't let you. No it doesn't reset on a reloaded game, alternate saved games, roaming around and reloading areas or paitently playing through an encounter with a gimped character. Having my coop partner load the game as the host and me as his character, then back didn't work either. You are just stuck with it, please try again.
Posted By: Woland

Re: balancing patch beta (Steam) - 11/01/15 07:28 PM

Yes, you can't re-equip the item, because it thinks you don't have enough stats.

But it's only visual, at least in my case. Sometimes I had to reload 2-3 times to make it work, other times it was perfectly fine until I reloaded.

Basically your items above 5 of the required stats will show as greyed out, but in fact they're still equipped. For example, if you have a warrior that gets this bug, you'll see as if you were attacking an opponent with your fists, but you're doing full damage of your weapon - with all your stats.
It also messes up your skillbar and Action Points bar too, so it'll appear you can still attack with 2 AP left, while wearing a 2-hander (and you'll hit them with your fists, but in reality on the host's screen you're not doing anything, unless you have at least 4 AP).

I assume it has something to do with the invited person, haven't seen it happen on host yet. Did you try trading save files and change host? Might solve it.

So my guess is, it has something to do with character being corrupted on the client side, while on host's side it's perfectly fine. Also whenever the host took over my "bugged" character, he saw everything is as it should be.
Hope these pieces of information or deductions can help you and/or the Larian guys.
Posted By: TGM

Re: balancing patch beta (Steam) - 13/01/15 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by john carmack
Any news? When will the patch leave the BETA Status?

I have the GOG Version.

What about a new big Patch in the next weeks?


why do you think patch will be in next week?
Posted By: Raze

Re: balancing patch beta (Steam) - 13/01/15 11:08 AM


I think he was just wondering if it would be relased soon.
Posted By: candid

Re: balancing patch beta (Steam) - 13/01/15 01:23 PM

It is a really good game but let me propose some features that could make it excellent.

1. Scrolling the list of locations in the teleport menu is too slow and boring. Why not place location names in several columns?
2. Sometimes it is not a trivial problem to aim the cursor on a target. It would be convenient if one could pick a target by clicking on an icon in the queue in the top of the window. I was slightly wondered when I realized that I can't pick a target in that way. And developers could permit the camera to rotate on 360 degrees. Seriously, it would greatly facilitate aiming.
3. There is one more thing that complicate aiming. Target is moving when one is trying to aim. I mean animation of various body movements. You aim, target stirs, you click, and... your character does not the action it supposed to do because you clicked on the ground. It is really annoying thing. I am confident that there is some way to fix it.
4. What do you think about necessity of repairing weapon? Am I the only one who consider it superfluous?
Posted By: Raze

Re: balancing patch beta (Steam) - 13/01/15 02:40 PM


You can use the top row of icons during combat to target opponents with spells/skills.

In the Game section of the options you can unlock 360 degree rotation.

During combat you can aim for the feet (most of the idle animation movement is in the upper body), or switch to the overhead tactical view (hotkey b).
Posted By: candid

Re: balancing patch beta (Steam) - 13/01/15 03:27 PM

My bad! I could figure most of it out by myself. Thank you!

I know about using the top row to target with spells, but what about targeting with common attack? It can be a pleasing little improvement, right?

As well as dividing the teleport menu on several columns.

Posted By: Raze

Re: balancing patch beta (Steam) - 13/01/15 03:47 PM


Yes, it would be handy to be able to target portraits for regular attacks. Some kind of organization in the teleporter list would also be nice to have, once it gets long enough to need to scroll.
Posted By: SkinnyLegs

Re: balancing patch beta (Steam) - 15/01/15 03:41 PM

I encounter this every time we do an initial load of the game with my co-op partner as the host. It also occurs if we reload from a quick save after a terribly botched combat. Although we always recover. Some of the things I see that is an obvious bug, visually for me is.

I die:
When I am revived my character doesn't move normally. She doesn't walk but floats with her arms stretched our like a scare crow. Often she has no head.

My co-op partners have no armor on or weapons.

Game killer and requires a reload from a manual save are abilities at zero and physical stats are set to 5.

As to balance, my co-op partner and I, feel the whole balance system has changed and the boss fights are far too easy.
Posted By: Stabbey

Re: balancing patch beta (Steam) - 15/01/15 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by SkinnyLegs
I die:
When I am revived my character doesn't move normally. She doesn't walk but floats with her arms stretched our like a scare crow. Often she has no head.


That is awesome. Got video or screenshots?
Posted By: Zachb34

Re: balancing patch beta (Steam) - 17/01/15 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by john carmack
Any news? When will the patch leave the BETA Status?

I have the GOG Version.

What about a new big Patch in the next weeks?


I'd like to know about both patches as well.

Thanks!
Posted By: PredatorV

Re: balancing patch beta (Steam) - 23/01/15 09:44 AM

What about the new patch?
I wanted to try the beta test on Steam, but there is no beta version for DOS ... it's over?
Or is it private with the need to code? It makes no sense ...

So, what's the status?
Posted By: Raze

Re: balancing patch beta (Steam) - 23/01/15 10:00 AM


It is a semi-open beta, so you do need a code (check your PM).
Posted By: TGM

Re: balancing patch beta (Steam) - 25/01/15 10:38 PM

Originally Posted by Raze

It is a semi-open beta, so you do need a code (check your PM).


Can i take code 2?
Posted By: Raze

Re: balancing patch beta (Steam) - 26/01/15 12:36 AM


Yes.
Posted By: araneldon

Re: balancing patch beta (Steam) - 26/01/15 03:52 AM

May I have one as well?

Edit: Got it, thank you smile
Posted By: Raze

Re: balancing patch beta (Steam) - 26/01/15 04:12 AM


Done.
Posted By: TGM

Re: balancing patch beta (Steam) - 26/01/15 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by Raze

Done.

Спасибо / Thx.
Posted By: Aenra

Re: balancing patch beta (Steam) - 30/01/15 04:49 AM

After a hefty dosage of undistilled drudanae i came across the tooth fairy (honest) where i was told that today being Friday, the patch would go live. For GOG anyway. The tooth fairy never embraced the mass pimping big brother mentality commonly refered to as Steam.

Right..?..
Posted By: Stabbey

Re: balancing patch beta (Steam) - 30/01/15 05:19 AM

It's technically Friday, but Belgium Time, it's only 6:18 AM. When you posted it was about 5:45 AM there.
Posted By: Raze

Re: balancing patch beta (Steam) - 30/01/15 05:28 AM


Your hallucination may have a point, but until GOG Galaxy allows developers to update games directly, Steam is going to be faster than sending the update to GOG and them making a patch and/or new full installer for it.
Posted By: Aenra

Re: balancing patch beta (Steam) - 30/01/15 05:58 AM

yeah..that is a bit of an issue, true ^^
thankfully, one can always depend on well-informed customers blaming the game studios for any inconveniences or delays, lol

@Stabbey i know, i live in Greece, GMT +2 smile
Posted By: Hassat Hunter

Re: balancing patch beta (Steam) - 31/01/15 01:17 PM

You probably want to unpin this thread with the full patch (no longer beta) being out wink
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