We're really sorry about how long it's taking, but there's a bunch of good reasons why the Linux version is taking so long and it has everything to do with the many cool things we're doing to D:OS for the moment (but which we're not ready to announce just yet)

Without going into too much details, here's the story:

First of all, we don't want to use a wrapper like Wine. We want to do it properly, but our own ambitions have been causing us quite a lot of pain.

Since the Linux version wasn't intended to be released on the day of release (we were clear about that from the beginning I hope), little work was done to it prior to release. The reasoning was that if we got the Mac version working (which we didn't expect there to be for release either), the step to Linux was going to be small.

Right.

Once we recovered from release and started getting serious on the Linux version, we discovered a truckload of middleware problems, including the non-existence of something we thought existed and the fact that most vendors consider it a separate platform for which they charge extra.

In an ideal world, we would've checked all this sooner, but we didn't, assuming that it was covered. To fix this, we needed to make pieces of middleware ourselves, and so we did. Obviously that delayed things a lot. (The alternative was the wrapper, but we didn't want to do that as we wanted our engine to natively support Linux)

By the time we sorted out the different problems with the middleware, we had two branches of development going because obviously we were doing other things too.

The Linux version was being built on an old branch but ran out of synch with the new branch where plenty of improvements were happening and so we decided to stop integrating it in the old branch and instead focus on the new branch only.

If we wouldn't do that, then Linux would only have been supported on the old branch, and that didn't make a lot of sense going forward, especially since we wanted it to be part of our core engine. Supporting both branches wouldn't have worked since our Linux team is small.

All this wouldn't have been such a big problem if not for us starting to doing something *cool* on the new branch that quickly ran out of hand because we really liked it. So much work ended up being done that the new branch became a lot bigger than we'd anticipated and so it's all taking longer than we thought.

As long as we're not ready, we can't finalise the Linux version and release it. Obviously we've been offering refunds to people who backed with the express intent of playing int on Linux, but so far most in the Linux community seem to have been content that we're trying to integrate it into our core engine such that our future offerings will also include Linux support. It's something we really appreciate.

The long Linux delay is unfortunate but we think a lot of players are going to be really surprised and happy with what we're working on, and hopefully we'll be able to continue to support Linux over different games as a result of the effort it's taking now.

Anyway, it's a long story but the bottom line is: it's coming and we're working hard on making it good.

Thank you! Thats all I need to know..
I really appreciate your efforts to support Linux!
Will there be a way for you to tell how many people will be playing the Linux version once its out on steam ?

Regards Webcreature

This should probably also be pinned on the Steam D:OS forums.

Quite the tantalizing post, and also explains why the hardcore mode has taken longer than most of us (or at least me) had anticipated. Obviously reworking every fight, rebalancing the economy, new and rebalanced skills and abilities, rewriting things, etc. is a lot on its own, but now there's another "something *cool*" that's taking more time than anticipated? The wait will be even more worth it Considering how good D:OS already is, knowing a feature packed patch is on the way makes me all the more excited to play D:OS again.

I know It's hard to think this way Linux users, but playing the best possible version of D:OS from the start instead of playing a somewhat incomplete version and then the better version will probably make for a better experience overall.

Swen thank you for fair answer!Keep up your work !!
I can undestand your position,but sometimes people want to know what`s going on especially during a long period of silence,a litlle piece of info would be really appreciated!!
Personally I would (I assume not only me)like to know about Kirill`s health condition in the next Kickstarter update ,piece ,just a little piece about it would be really great! I hope he is very well for now !
That`s all what I want to say.Thank you!

Indeed !!
I can only say it again :
Many many Thanks to Lar & Larian Studios' team,
You all are the Best !!

As one of the backers at a high level that was looking to play on Linux, I never intended to pull my pledge, but was disappointed in the long delay. The "no news" part in the delay is the worst part though, and is the reason I think, a lot of the Linux gamers were complaining so much. Your response to the Linux community in this thread was a good start to alleviate the concerns.

I am happy that from this experience your in-house development team will be able to create Linux builds in future games, with the knowledge gained from D:OS.

Can you please elaborate on what exactly those missing middleware issues were (unless it's some kind of NDA)? I know that for example Tex Murphy - Tesla Effect stumbled over Bink Video not being available for Linux at the time (now it is). I think they should learn their lessons and use free codecs like VPx instead.

Nice!
As far as I can see, you are still early on the timetable as I predicted it to take. I still cannot believe that you really have finished D:OS for windows in such a short time, as I would have expected for you to only finish the game this summer.
Anyway: we get to play the game without mission bugs .
And games like these are timeless.

Thanks for the update, and the trust in linux as a gaming platform.

Having done that already (thankfully without any user interface), I know what a pain it must be.
If it wasn't too much, I'd say my heart bleeds with your brains.

Good luck.

Thank you for the update, and if you want alpha testers I volanteer my self and a friend whom I haven't consulted yet, but whom I think I can guilt into it.

"First of all, we don't want to use a wrapper like Wine. We want to do it properly, but our own ambitions have been causing us quite a lot of pain."

If I would have known that the expectations were so low, that the game running natively is an ambition worth noting, I would have never backed this project (nevermind backing it twice as I did). I think that overall I have been quite understanding (yet unhappy) of the situation and don't plan on getting my money back yet. But you could spare me the b.s.

It is interesting to see that since I backed this, I have completely forsaken kickstarting any other games. I am honestly not angry (disappointed, yes) about it all...I understand that maybe you made a promise you couldn't keep--I just seem to have lost my ability to trust blindly. You need to understand that you made a commitment and by any reasonable standards, you most certainly didn't keep it. In doing so you not only tainted your image but that of the whole process that gave you so much. It was irresponsible. Saying that there is a "good" reason for it is missing the point in _such_ a naive way. It has been an entire year...and your excuse is that you don't want to give me a game wrapped in wine (which is not worth a cent of my hard-earned money) and you want to give me the best? It honestly astounds me. Keep these communications at "We are sorry...we decided that we wanted to do [this and that...] knowing that this will significantly delay the release. Despite our irresponsible promises, we still want to make Linux a first-class platform for this game."

Instead, you tried to make yourself look good from a situation that is 'meh' at best.

As a Linux user, but more importantly as a customer that has yet to run any binary sequence in this game...I just wish I felt a little more appreciated. I wish I got a more human answer and one that looks less like something from a suit in EA or Ubisoft. But I guess one customer from a platform with a small market share is a drop in the ocean.

I do hope you humble yourselves so as to understand why this situation is not ok. We all make mistakes and promises we can't keep. Integrity?

The intent to have a native port is directly relevant to the problems that caused the delay; it had to be 'noted'.
If anything, expectations were too high, given the issues with some of the the middleware.

First, the way that the Kickstarter presented the information...it was always implied that it would be a native port. As I mentioned, I would not pay a single cent to get a game wrapped in Wine...which already seems to work https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=30603 .

Considering that a native port was the minimum expectation by 100% of linux users who paid for this, I don't think mentioning so is very relevant. It is like someone building a car for me and after a delay just saying "...Oh, we are taking longer because we are building a car, not a motorcycle." Well, no sh**. it is completely superfluous because NOBODY expected any less.

Oh my! You promise me a car and you build me a car instead of a motorcycle! How unexpected, I now understand all the delays.

"If anything, expectations were too high..." It is possible that their engine makes a native port harder, and maybe their efforts deserve praise. But the reality is that they should have known from the beginning, and patting yourself (Larian) on the back regardless, does not inspire trust in me. From the perspective of a consumer, the expectation is a bare minimum. If this game had announced Linux support out of nowhere, I would have been impressed by his post. But their advertisement of multi-platform support is the sole reason they got my money (more money than I have payed for any of my ~180 native linux 'ports'. It has been a year.

To reiterate. I understand the situation, but the communication is tactless at best...

Considering that a native port was the minimum expectation by 100% of linux users who paid for this

Of those who paid for it, yes. Not everyone waiting for the Linux version backed the kickstarter or has been following development since then, though.


"...Oh, we are taking longer because we are building a car, not a motorcycle."

IMO a better analogy would be 'it turns out we we couldn't make some of the car parts with the tools we had available, so we had to make the tools ourselves, since we didn't just want to jerry-rig an existing car and call it custom'.


they should have known from the beginning

Yes, as Lar said in his post.


and patting yourself (Larian) on the back

That really was not the intent of the post.

I think you need to cut them some slack @mbf

I too had a complaint originally (on a different matter, but again related to their KS goals)
Now i do not know what your experience with RPGs is, or related to that, how many you have happened to play, but let me tell you..
Once i saw just how much they -did- manage to do, and to what an extent they had pushed forward certain factors that were all but missing in "other" KS projects, not only did i excuse them, i actually felt gratified for what i got in the first place. What you see now took a shitload of work to achieve. More than most bother to put in in the first place.

Of course your arguments here will be reasonable: yes they did under-deliver, at least according to what they'd scheduled for, yes it is not right to have such a mentality (of leniency) as it can only endorse further goal "skippings" (which were indeed paid for). True, but in theory. Practice as always takes its own course. Paths branch out, and the odd exception takes place.

They are still working on the game, almost a year later, still patching, expanding, improving. And we do (or could have if bothered) know something of their history as a studio, and what they had had to overcome to get to where they are. It is rather safe to say that they are an exception to the rule. Thus far mind you. An exception they have not taken lightly, as they do apologise, acknowledge and continue to work so as to overule it.

Mistakes and delays will always happen. This is not a Molyneux-revisited. Maintain your judgement criteria, sure, but also realise how there may be original, honest, transparent issues that will cause problems, no matter the capabilities of those involved. They do their best to predict the future, and demand the equivalent price (man hours + licences) to meet it. No human has of yet managed to do that successfully. Predict the future

As I have heard of these problems from a few other games (for example a game a few years ago had the same problems with Bink video as Tex Murphy) I'm not at all surprised.

Naturally I'm not happy about the further wait, but in light of the promise (or at least intention) to make the next games ready for linux too I think we linuxers get more out of it than expected. To paraphrase Don Corleone, Larian made me an offer I couldn't refuse ;-)

I feel I should quote this again, just in case someone didn't see it.

Also, comparing Larian to EA is just low, man. Serious.

@nstgc I picked a random company...I wasn't comparing them directly. The point is that the post does not seem to come from someone who values transparency. I trust this is not the case.

@Raze That might be a better analogy for the entire situation, but not for the point I was trying to make. I want to believe them and therefore I can understand his "reasons" and your analogy seems appropriate. My analogy was merely meant to highlight how ridiculous it is to even hint at the idea that wine (making a motorcycle instead of a car) was a possibility. Granted, the analogy could have been better, but in my mind it still gets the point I want to make across.

I understand Lars mentioned it, maybe I should have quoted him instead. The concept afterwards is what matters here. They should have known, so own the mistake and leave it at that.

@Meganoth I fail to see how I am getting _more_ than expected. But of course, this depends on your expectations. My expectation are implicit (a few times rather explicit) in what I wrote before.

@Aenra Thanks for the post. I don't think I need to be more lenient than I am being, honestly. I am not attacking their decisions, or belittling their challenges and achievements. I am also not demanding my money back. It is ok that they made a mistake and promised more than they could deliver. But in communicating this, one should try to humble oneself and understand the ramification of those mistakes. I need to reiterate though, you are not "ambitious" for wanting to get something more than a wine wrapper..honestly...saying this is sad.

I should also note that while other kickstarter goals have not been met. This one in particular prevents me from playing this game at all.

Well i cannot call your stance inappropriate or unreasonable, but i think you got that already

As far as lenience be concerned however, i believe it depends on your definition of it, context specific of course. In my mind, they are doing the right thing; it is in light of said "right thing, right way of approach" that i base my own remarks/leniency approach on.

They will be using this very engine for more games. According to a latest interview, in fact plenty more. It is both cheapest and most efficient for them to work these things out now, get them to a state deemed appropriate, so as to forgo needing to address them again come the next game, where 'x' or 'y' feature will be once more, impossible to be ported over. By developing whatever middleware required themselves and then reshaping the Linux client around them, they ensure more time can be spent in (future) games development and less on the technical aspect of things, the outcome of which you will be unable to gauge in any case. Whereas inversely, a game with obvious oversights or weak 'factors' really IS something anyone would tend to notice. And you will get that if they have to redo this for each and every future title

That does of course imply a conscious decision somewhere along the line, sure. Hence my saying that in strictest terms, no one could possible blame you, not per se.
In reality however..Linux can have Win installed on top of it, and as a backer, you could redeem your key this very instant, and enjoy the game just as everyone else. Does this rectify past events? No. Is it however a more thoughful, moderate response on your part? Definitely.

It is one thing to delay, no matter for how long, and another to forgo. Officially. As far as the former is concerned, i am personally lenient. Why? Because norms. Most people get it into their heads that KS pledge = rewards or fuck off. Reality is you help someone make something (and risk paying them for nothing). I do not contribute because my name will be on the credits. Or because i will get a special pet, don't even use it anyway. I contribute because i want a D:OS out there, playable.

Which brings me to the second point, again from my view obviously. We have barely three (semi-major-ish) studios making AAA "true" RPGs as we speak. Three*. Dedicated on titles that take years of iteration alone. Forget the developing part prior to that. I think they deserve a support, since lacking it, i will be back to playing nothing at all. That's why i pay. Could torrent and call it a day, any day.
So to recap, as long as:
A) They are making good, qualitative true RPG games
B) i have not the slightest reason to feel as if my money is unnecessary to them?

I can excuse. Plenty of scenarios where neither of the above held. Not here however

* plenty of peoiple would say they are far more than three. I beg to differ. Just me

I did notice that bit about wine too. I just don't think this remark is that important. A short reply that that was a bad excuse would be waranted, more is taking it out of proportions IMHO. Making excuses is human, and it seems he didn't even know that wine doesn't count as a linux version. EA marketing would have prevented such a faux pax by the way and printed lots of "we are sorry, we value our customers satisfaction..." without a shred of real background information in it ;-)

In my case there is also the fact that I'm still playing Wasteland2 and could play Pillars of Eternity afterwards, so it is easy for me to be patient. Obviously it is more frustrating for you.

Why do I think I'm getting more? As gamers linux users are still a small minority. For developers the decision to make a linux version is not an easy one and it wouldn't have been a surprise if Larian had simply dropped linux for their next games. IF everything is as Sven told us, they could have gone two ways: Make a linux version as fast as possible with whatever works, or produce a lasting solution that makes future linux versions so much easier. I can't judge how realistic solution a is, but I'm happy to find out that they decided to do solution b with the express intent to be able to create linux versions of future games.

I value four birds in the bush more than one in the hand in this case

My analogy was merely meant to highlight how ridiculous it is to even hint at the idea that wine (making a motorcycle instead of a car) was a possibility.

Whether or not it was ever seriously considered, Wine was the only alternative to creating the middleware that didn't exist, short of dropping the Linux version entirely. It isn't ridiculous to say the game is taking longer because Larian is sticking to the original plan, even if it will be harder than expected, rather than switch to 'plan B'.

It is not uncommon in game development (or other creative endeavours with limited resources) for features and/or content and/or platforms to be dropped or changed. Sometimes games have been cancelled outright. Kickstarter makes this process more public, but it doesn't change the process.

Just out of curiosity: which three studios do you mean (well apart from Larian of course)?

Obsidian, InXile

By the Gods of inXile and Obsidian, I would like to know too

;-)



EDIT: Oh damn, too late. Ruined the joke

not quite, still laughed

You are right. But if they don't deliver what they promised, they don't deserve to support them. Somebody wrote that they delivered more than expected?! No! I've paid for a Linux version and not for a promise. So I'm not willing to support this company anymore. Sorry guys! PoE is fun under Linux and I'll play this game for the next months. I don't need Divinity. Larian! One year after the official release is too late. I am not willing to wait any longer. Game over! Sorry

Kickstarter is not a pre-order system.
It was stated from the start that the Linux version would be done after the Mac version; as described above that took much longer than expected, but it is now being updated with the changes currently in progress. That is part of the development process.

BTW, the release date was June 30th.

@Alfred E.: I didn't say they *delivered* more than expected. I said (in different words) I'm getting more out of it in the end (with an implied "if everything happens as expected"). Now it might mean I'm too optimistic or maybe I'm just not that different from people who bet their money in the stock market. It definitely means my tolerance to delays is far superior than yours ;-)

Anyway, I backed a lot of kickstarter games and some of them are long overdue. But eventually most of them will still result in a finished game. This is the nature of KS. You are involved in the production of a game from the start. Delays like this happen all the time in the games industry, only you don't experience them first hand if you are not involved in the production as early as with KS. Did you notice that GTA for PC will come out 1 1/2 years after the console version? The Duke (Duke Nukem fourever) was ~10 years in the pipeline. I could make a long list of games that took much longer than expected and I wouldn't even know about another long list of games that nobody ever knew came out late, or never.

Alfred E., quoting parts of my posts so to help you pose your own argument is welcome, but please, do read the entirety of my post yet again.

Or for a TLDR, Raze's sesponse come to that

You pledge to support. What they give you back is a sad after-effect of multiple factors which are best not explained here, but since they do happen to be prevalent, rewards you do receive. You do not pledge for rewards though. Kickstarter is NOT pre-ordering, is NOT shopping.

As for the example you happen to mention, be advised that PoE itself was delayed not once, but twice. The second time alone being for over a year. Not the Linux version, ALL of PoE
You could perhaps reconsider. Either way, i wish you well!

I died a little inside when Bioware got bought out by EA. They really did make good RPGs. I really liked ME (including 3), but I can't really call those RPGs. Dragon Age: Origin was a good game, but that really was their last decent RPG.

I applaud Larian, Obsidian, and InXile for not only releasing their games onto Linux, but also making engines that can be used in the future for more Linux games to come.

We all knew that the Linux release would be delayed, and so I am patient.

@Aenra, I hope you did not just suggest that I buy windows and install it in a virtual machine to play the game. I hope I misread.

To reiterate to all the subsequent posters, some of which still seem to be under the impression that the problem here is my patience. I am still patiently waiting for the game. I don't expect every goal to be met. Hell, I didn't mind when some of the features did not get implemented. But considering that support on Linux is an all or nothing thing for me (and many people who backed the game), it seems disingenuous to mark it as a selling point. A sort of bait and switch. It is exactly the same as them not finishing the game at all. Now...this _could_ happen to a kickstarter game, and I could _lose_ my money. The question here is whether, when all is said and done, they deserve my understanding and my respect. edit: I should note, if they do finish the linux version, then I see it as them delivering everything I expected with my backing.

My main personal problem with this post is that I wish they showed some humility and spared me the bulls**t.

I hope they understand their wrongs and grow up from this experience. Respect all your customers and respect the platforms that enable your success...other developers depend on it.

You did not misread me am afraid..
Although it was not meant in an offensive or even condescending a way, not at all.

You just reminded me of my early (when they were a true, real fortune) Apple days. Until i saw the light, and understood that occasionally going with the flow in some matters can actually be better. Alternatively, one bears with the consequences. I know how it sounds, was just saying that going for 'different' (linux) has costs. Unlike me back then, you, now, still have an option (even as a last resort) of actually running the software you wish to. Whether that's a case to make you happy or leave you uninterested..that is your prerogative. Since i can guess your reply, and i agree, don't even type it:

To go back to the issue at hand..you got my point, and we got yours. What remains is whether you are here simply to receive a personally addressed apology (which will not happen, though i am often wrong), or to strike up a conversation that is at this point beyond futile. Again no offense meant;

1) They do know, and they did apologise. In a number of forms. This OP by Swen being just one of them. Which is why i am saying that unless you somehow find yourself elevated among all others and as such demand a personal apology, i fail to see the point in continuing this. Your part as a consumer has already being done (demand, complain when entitled to, etc).

2) They have already (months prior) addressed this in a manner that precludes any future recurrences of such kind. Entailing obviously that:
a) point has been driven home (hence my saying 'at this point futile' above)
b) this event is one you will not have to face again. You as a customer. Not you as 'mbf'. There are a few thousand others mbfs at the exact same situation you are
c) the above standing, we can at the least say that everybody, Linux customers included, has already gained what can be gained from this. Namely that the games which will be coming out from now on will have more time spent on their gameplay features. Rather than their technical aspect. That is something you too, as mbf, will benefit from. This wasn't a 'one off', there's more titles coming.

finis. Your point is still valid. Your point has been made. Now what

I hope you did not just suggest that I buy windows and install it in a virtual machine to play the game.

People have mentioned playing the game using PlayOnLinux or Wine. That may still not be an acceptable solution, but it would eliminate Windows and the VM.


...and spared me the bulls**t.

I don't think most people read it that way, and it certainly wasn't the way it was intended.

Would be nice with some sort of progress report at least, there's very little information on the Linux version other than "it's delayed because issues...".

I have bought the game on Steam but if they are going to drop the Linux version in a couple of months because those issues couldn't be solved (or cost too much to be worth it etc) I'd rather take back my money and buy another game, at the moment everything seems so unsure.

Well if you want my opinion..

There is a reason one can find similar trends among many developing studios. Pre-production, post-production, burn phases, sales boosting, they all pretty much dictate a certain course of events over time. So while i would not count on this with a hundred percent certainty?
This delay between latest patch and incoming one signifies more than a "big" patch in the works. Personally i'd expect its release to just 'happen' to coincide with a Gold/Remastered edition and/or extra platform ports. Including but not necessarily limited to your Linux one.

You do not have much longer to wait

@Aerna Eh, paying for a Microsoft license is not an alternative in any universe, even though I have nothing against the OS itself. The point of this post was never to get a personal apology, but to respond to the original post. Now what? Nothing. As you said, I made my point; the only reason I am responding is to address other people. I never meant to strike conversation (although I welcome it), I just wanted my opinion in here. I can only hope that it served the purpose I intended, which I will never know. In my mind it had to be said, so it is what it is.

You say that they get it, but that was my point. The original post implies that he still doesn't really understand all the issues. Does it warrant an extensive conversation? Perhaps not, but I still want to see someone speak up. I saw no one else do it, so I did. Is it having a conversation futile? Well, if my ONLY goal is for them to release the next game in a timely manner...yes. That was a mere corollary of one of my many points.

As a tangent. Linux has no "costs" for me, which I why I use it. I am a pragmatist and if there were any issues with my workflow, I would change it in a heartbeat. Games are not a high priority for me so I don't care if a game is or not on Linux. But I _did_ back this game, and I care about my money. More importantly, I care _who_ gets my money and that they accept it humbly謡ith all that it entails.

@Raze It is how it read to me (still does), and I doubt I'm the only one.

@faceplanter I don't think it looks so unsure. It is just a matter of time. Right now with all that Swen has said, it _has_ to happen. If it doesn't, then all he said is utterly meaningless and we can just forget Larian for good. I still believe he is a man of integrity and trust that we will get the game.

For now, I am just happy I got Torchlight II completely DRM/BS-free through HIB.

EDIT: My replies look so much shorter when I am in the process of writing them. orz

I for one have thought all of the Larian posts regarding this issue have been sincere. I don't feel they are bullshitting me.

I admit that I would have liked a bit more feed back, however when they do share what's going on, I don't feel insulted in the least.

I have made some suggestions in regards to how (considering their honest lack of time for lengthy communications) this sense of 'feedback' could be enhanced. At no particular cost that is. You can read them here, among other ideas

They are under a heavy load as we speak. New office, different team structure, personnel hiring, a post-production on D:OS, a pre-production on the next one(s). Logistics alone can be a major bitch until a company gets the hang of them. Cannot know if this is what affects them in particular, but i do know that most companies doing their first major expansion tend to suffer from it. Inevitable. Give them some time, then we can best judge i think.

You rarely see that kind of PR from a game company.

GG larian... GG.

(Nice tease btw, i wanna see the cool stuff, but do it soon before i'm over with the game ;))

So much hate everywhere. I hate it

Thanks Larian for trying to make Linux version happen. Even if you don't make it with the release before I'll finish it, I'll still be happy, because I'm thinking about benefits for the whole platform and Linux community, not only for myself. I'm happy when the alternative OS gets stronger, and it's getting stronger with every title.

I think some people should also realize that games on Linux do not have the same history of development like games on Windows have (yes, I think some people have problems with this, even if they don't know about it). Different systems mean different problems. Basic problems on Windows are already solved. Lots of basic problems on Linux are not solved yet, and everyone has to solve them by themselves. I understand that if a company is among the first companies entering a new platform, nobody can tell them that they failed, because they didn't have answers for everything before they even started.

Sometimes you have to start doing something in order to know what questions to ask, let alone answering them. It's normal. People who don't understand this probably don't have experience in doing anything at all .

my god... a year after release and still no linux version. why did i even think for a minute you could pull this stunt of? fucking ridiculous, and fucking stupid of me to back you.

The release date was June 30th.
The Linux version was always set to start after the Mac version was done, it just took a lot longer than expected.

lol

Are you really serious? Sorry dude, but you are just a fanboy. But it is OK for me if you are willing to spend your bucks for nothing. I do not and I bet that I'm not alone which will never ever fund a Larian game.

Kickstarter is not a pre-order system. It is not immune to the normal development process. If you are not willing to accept the normal development process, you should not back anything on kickstarter.

I've got some thoughts I'd like to express, so I'll start with a quote from the indefatigable Raze. By the way, Raze, I have to ask do you play games on a Linux distro?

[quote=Raze]
Kickstarter is not a pre-order system. It is not immune to the normal development process. If you are not willing to accept the normal development process, you should not back anything on kickstarter. [/quote]

Certainly not a pre-order system, understood. It does however reflect upon the developer the "promises" delivered and not delivered. If developers think that they can just promise things that the community wants, get funded and then put major things like Linux support on the back burner, fine. I don't think Larians next community funding campaign will work so well next time. Maybe Larian execs think that their success will propel their funding for their next project despite how they treat the community, that seems like an unfortunate attitude, regardless.

I did not get on the kickstarter for this game as I missed the campaign, but I bought a couple copies on Steam during a sale knowing that there was already a delay. I have played many of my favorite games through wine, but fortunately a lot of great developers have made real ports of their games reality or have had Linux support from pre-release. Notable examples are Portal 2, Torchlight I and II, Borderlands II, Tiny Keep, Fight the Dragon, Mount and Blade II, Planet Explorers and Planetary Annihilation. I've not had much luck running D:OS from wine unfortunately.
It seems that it's certainly not impossible to make a good port of a game to Linux given the 1000+ games, Indie and AAA available already. Many of these games did not make promises of Linux support during their development and some made a port long after release. I think this is a far better way to go than make a statement about supporting an entire and growing platform and then releasing on Windows while the promised ports are just pushed aside. I think it's a very clear indication on Larians priorities to see their Linux port still unreleased. Choosing a middleware without clear Linux support indicates that Larian had little regard for for the Linux port from the beginning. Would they even consider choosing a middleware with questionable Windows support and then use that as an excuse for delaying the release on that platform!?

As Larian has stated:

[quote]The Linux version was being built on an old branch but ran out of synch with the new branch where plenty of improvements were happening and so we decided to stop integrating it in the old branch and instead focus on the new branch only.[/quote]

At that point it looks like Linux support abandoned, because:

[quote]If we wouldn't do that, then Linux would only have been supported on the old branch, and that didn't make a lot of sense going forward, especially since we wanted it to be part of our core engine. Supporting both branches wouldn't have worked since our Linux team is small.
[/quote]
Ok the Linux team is small and they stop working on the old branch, what about this "new" branch?

[quote]All this wouldn't have been such a big problem if not for us starting to doing something *cool* on the new branch that quickly ran out of hand because we really liked it. So much work ended up being done that the new branch became a lot bigger than we'd anticipated and so it's all taking longer than we thought. [/quote]

So how was their small Linux team involved in this "*cool*" (so cool that it breaks other platforms is OK?) thing in the new branch? Seems like not at all, until the community starts asking questions.

[quote]The long Linux delay is unfortunate but we think a lot of players are going to be really surprised and happy with what we're working on, and hopefully we'll be able to continue to support Linux over different games as a result of the effort it's taking now.[/quote]

Larian thinks "a lot of players are going to be really surprised and happy with what we're working on". Do they really think a lot of players run Linux and are worth the effort they now say they are putting in? If so, then why the back-burner, afterthought development? If not, who are they talking to, happy Windows users who are playing right now?
I think the only surprise thus far is the unfortunate lack of a Linux release that is counter to all that Larian as promised.

Divinity is just a game for me, fortunately, and nothing I or anyone else really needs to have a happy life, oh except for maybe those who work for Larian. They already have my money, good for them. For my money, the only value so far seems to be in posting this rant, I did not really need to buy the game to post this anyways.

Now that Larian has made an yet another example of itself about how a studio can make big promises to get money, the community gets some value out of Larian to solidly reference when Larian tries to start a new project. Maybe Larian will get some additional press about being the new [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_Nukem_Forever]Duke Nukem Forever[/url], Though 15 years is a tough record to break, should the Linux port of Divinity Original Sin ever be released.

BTW, I get:
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /home/2/4/1/1026/1026/public_html/forums/libs/html.inc.php on line 801 when I attempted (repeatably) to post my last comment with formatting.

UBBCode is disabled for new user accounts, to discourage spam (no clickable links, etc). Separately, there is an issue editing long posts, which I've been meaning to look into. I think if you move half your first post to the second it should allow you to edit it without timing out.

I do not currently play games on Linux. I have dual booted in the past, but in practice didn't boot into Linux very frequently. I'm seriously considering building a dedicated Linux computer soon, though (how soon depending on whether or not I have any money after I do my taxes and replace a monitor that died a couple weeks ago).


get funded and then put major things like Linux support on the back burner

It was put on the back burner, along with Mac, before the kickstarter. It was only once the Kickstarter goal was met that Larian officially confirmed there would be Mac and Linux versions, and Mac development was started again. The Mac release was expected to be with or not too long after the Windows release, with the Linux version to start after the Mac version was done (which was expected to be not much extra work at that point).


despite how they treat the community

You say that like the delays were a choice.


I think it's a very clear indication on Larians priorities to see their Linux port still unreleased.

If you were betting your company on the success of a game, and almost all of your development experience was with Windows, which platform would you prioritize first?


Choosing a middleware without clear Linux support indicates that Larian had little regard for for the Linux port from the beginning.

You mean as oppose to just having no experience developing for Linux? If Larian had little regard for the Linux port, they wouldn't have made the tools to replace the middleware assumed to exist, but dropped the port or used Wine.


Would they even consider choosing a middleware with questionable Windows support and then use that as an excuse for delaying the release on that platform!?

The Windows version was delayed, multiple times. In fact, Larian delayed it as much as possible (scrambling to get a loan to pay off another loan that a bank getting cold feet called in, and deferring paying taxes, then getting caught by the government changing that policy).


At that point it looks like Linux support abandoned, because:

The last couple game updates were also in an 'old' branch, with specific changes and bug fixes being moved from the main branch. After the 1.0.252 update, everyone moved over to working on the most recent set of code.


what about this "new" branch?

As of mid-March, the ETA was "some months".


So how was their small Linux team involved in this "*cool*" (so cool that it breaks other platforms is OK?) thing in the new branch?

It isn't a case of breaking platforms, but of how much time it would take to support both. Would you want the 1.0.252 Linux version around the time of the next Window and Mac update, and then another delay of "some months" while the engine was updated again with the new code? Unfortunately, updating the Linux engine to code that is already outdated isn't practical.


Though 15 years is a tough record to break

Year long delays are quite common in game development, though.

Raze, thank you for taking time to concisely address my concerns. I do hope you take the plunge into some Linux based distro and are the happier for it. The reason why I really hope for more games for Linux are that I never want a reason to go back to dealing with Windows as I had for more than 10 years (though I must do so at work).

If I may quote you again:


Does this mean that Windows Linux and Mac versions will be released concurrently with Larians "new" system? Should I expect the Linux port to remain on the back-burner?



If I was even thinking of the possibility releasing a Linux port along with a Windows and Mac version (such as a kickstarter goal), I would make sure my entire development team was ready to take such a task seriously or just make no such mention in a stretch goal. Putting a proportionally small number of Linux developers on my important game and expecting them to make magic happen to work around code that is developed almost entirely with Windows in mind would seem to be a waste of money and time, especially if time is precious as it is before a first release date.

I think if Larian has a chance of making things right with Linux users, it's in the update you mention. I did finally get the game working in wine following advice from the WineHQ community, but unfortunately, it just makes me hope for the Linux port all the more.

You have an understanding of how Larian works and what challenges it faces, many of those that are never otherwise exposed to the outside world. I thank you again for your candor and time.

I would assume the plan is to have the next update ready for Windows, Mac and Linux at the same time, if at all possible, but I don't know what the projected timeframe is for updating the Linux version of the engine, or the update itself (except a rough idea).
Even if there is some lag with the Linux release, it is currently being worked on, so isn't on the back burner.

@Race: Thank you for your detailed information. To be honest I'm also one of those unhappy linux users. Actually you always feel a bit sad if you bag a campaign for their promised OS support, but after it get funded you feel like a 2nd class person - sometimes the support is dropped after the funding, somtimes the linux support is being realised much later on.

To save money and time it's always a good idea to have ONE code base from the very beginning. This also what the devs on Valves the Steam Dev days say.

Of course I do understand that it's always hard to start something from the scratch. Therfor I do appreciate that Larian is going to support linux! Since the enginge can handle linux soon, I really do hope future games will have linux support as well. And I also hope they'll have that around the time the windows version is being released.

I do also understand that 90 % of the revenue is made by windows users, 8-9 % from Mac and only 1-2 % - but the linux market is growing! In the meantime some publishers / game studios mentioned that 1 % is allready enough to pay off for porting their games to linux. This is why you can see all (actually NOT all) those nice indie and AAA titles out there being realeased for linux nowadays as well.

So in conclusion: Thanks for the updates! Thanks for the efforts! Please keep linux on the road maps for future games. But please, please try to not put us as much behind as it happened this time - otherwise the GNU/LINUX community will loose there trust in what Larian promises and won't support future campaigns I guess.

As long as new features are being added, there needs to at least be separate 'release' and 'main' code branches whenever an update is released and there are still things being worked on. Especially shortly after release, there were multiple smaller patches released with bug fixes or minor updates, while larger updates (like the companion DLC, etc) were being worked on. Even the last update, with the compressed save format, Steam cloud support enabled, etc, could not have been released without separate code branches, since work was ongoing with the harder difficulty mode and new skills, etc.

The next games will be built with the same engine, so once the Linux version is brought in line with the current Windows and Mac versions, future engine updates can be done concurrently.

The middleware you needed to write is going to be open sourced, right? ;-)

The middleware is about the sound, isn't it? You wouldn't be the first studio experiecing exactly that kind of problem.

@Raze: Sorry for not being so clear about that point. I didn't mean you should have one code base for all versions of the game. Of course you do need different branches if you have a release with a lot of new functionality being added.
What I ment is that it's more handy to have one branch that should be able to be compiled on every OS from the very beginning of the developement progress. That also makes sure releases could be at the same date. In this case also MacOS and Linux users are happy to buy early access etc. as well! Extra money for you.

weasel words.. nothing more.
working on upgrade, now a new game will be revealed..
just no priority on the promise they made.. first and last backed game from Larian for me !

Having, and hiring, writers, artists, designers, scripters, etc, to work on pre-production for other projects does not take anything away from the programmers working on the Linux port of the engine.

There isn't anything going to be revealed about a new game until E3.

The Linux version was always going to be started after the Mac version was done. The amount of time and work required was much longer than anticipated. That is part of the development process.

While I can understand the frustrations with the delays, some people just don't understand that software development isn't always an a-b-c progression. Sometimes it's two steps forward, three steps back.

So Any news on a date for the release ?

Being a developer myself I do understand that, however it's almost a year since launch. That, plus the total lack of info on the matter (Razes' replies in this thread sheds no light on the progress) is what's causing the frustration.

Niltugor;
The last ETA (of "some months") was from mid-March, but there will be more information announced soon. A teaser was posted on Facebook and Instagram, and it was already stated information about the next projects would be revealed at E3, so that leaves the next update and Linux version.




Faceplanter;
"total lack of info"? If calls for new updates started a week after the last update (minor complaints immediately, of course), 2 weeks later it was completely outdated, and 2 months later it doesn't even exist, is it surprising that Larian would rather focus on actually working on the update than posting progress reports (which would still get criticized anyway)?

Get ready for nerd-rage should it be decided to announce Linux support on this new project as there is already resentment brewing in Reddit (no surprise) and on Linux gaming blogs. I know that art sound and other groups on Larians team now have something to do, but I don't think that most people will understand this before it is explained. Particularly seeing how Larian would certainly have to draw on their code development team on this new project, and of those perhaps those working with Linux development, one might assume that Larian will be leveraging the developing code base of D:OS and creating their new project based on this technology. I hope this is indeed the case.

If I may invoke your words again, Raze:
"....is it surprising that Larian would rather focus on actually working on the update than posting progress reports (which would still get criticized anyway)?"

Actually, in light of the rather long and disappointing delay of the Linux version, I think some videos or regular statements of progress could really help the community understand what is going on. Waiting until Larians forums are filling with FUD to post a tidbit of news along with a lot of explaining to quell the masses is a reactive strategy and I would think that being a little more proactive would take far less energy and have far better results.

Many of us don't know exactly what goes on in a game development studio (sometimes, most of the devs don't either), we certainly don't know what particular difficulties Larian faces, so helping us understand along the way and sharing Larians struggle would certainly make *me* feel more involved and supportive instead of just placated after I've voiced some frustration.

Edit:
Let's make up an analogy. Your CEO makes a public statement that the company has had a great year and the it is treating it's investors and employees to a party to celebrate at the end of the year.

You find out that there was in fact a party in December held for the investors and that a special party for employees is also planned later. You know that the investors make it possible for your company to exist and don't have a problem with such special treatment for them and look forward to the employee party with people you know and worked hard with.

January comes and no word from upstairs. Rumor is that there is a really exciting development about to occur this year and the energy is being diverted for this big push. You and your crew ask management about the party, but you feel awkward doing so because you know she has been working late on this new development.

You get an official reply from the CEO himself personally apologizing about the delay of the employee party and he promises that there will be a huge celebration with both investors and employees on the official announcement of the new big thing. This new big thing will move the company far ahead and everyone is expected to get some kind of promotion or bonus. He states that he hopes you all as excited as he is about the new big thing and you will do what you can to see it through.

This was just a party, icing on the cake, and you still have a good job with a company that seems to be moving ahead.

I understand that it look longer than expected, but the lack of information for a long time, and the lack of research done related to the systems used and lack of manpower makes this very disappointing.

I hope that if the new game you are talking about goes on kickstarter, that you don't ask for extra money again to back a Linux version.

Updates on the progress would be great, at least screenshots or a technical overview of where you are, since it'd at least show it's being worked on.

The main issue it seems with this and many other kickstarters from around the same time was promising multi-platform support without doing the proper research and experimentation first, which would have helped avoid the middleware issues and over-promising.

I will say that the devs saying they'd refund the backing for Linux users is a great step. I've sent an email regarding that, so hopefully that'll be processed soon.

Of course new projects (expect some news around E3) will have Linux support; that is the whole point of putting so much effort into a native port for D:OS. The next games will built on the same game engine and gameplay mechanics (with updates).

The announcement being teased on Instagram will include more information on the Linus version release.

More timely updates on the delays probably would have helped. However, there were more regular updates with the delays for the Windows release, as well, which didn't stop accusations of broken 'promises' and lies when estimates were not met, etc. Most people of course supported the reasons for the delay (adding additional features and changes based on feedback, etc).

Not really sure what you are referring to here?

I'm talking about the progress of the Linux port. As others have said, screenshots, videos or just plain info on what's being worked on atm. The only info we have is "it's delayed because reasons...".

Do you seriously think posting a progress report would hurt more than staying silent? Unless the progress report is "we have 1 guy working half time on it, screenshots are not available" I think the majority of people would appreciate it.

I was speaking more about a stretch goal, which would be "funny" to see again.

How long will it take to process the refund?

Even if people took that attitude, wouldn't it be better to keep your paying customers updated?

It would be funny to see a stretch goal for something that was already completed; I don't think it would encourage many extra backers or tier upgrades.
Mac and Linux were not stretch goals in the D:OS kickstarter; porting resumed when the initial goal was met.

I don't know. Are you hoping to get a refund before the imminent news about the Linux version is announced?

Larian is focused on updating the game, and there were multiple conformations that the Linux version was still being worked on, and several updates. One could certainly argue an earlier update about the delay would have been better, but at some point diverting resources from what you are working on to provide updates, that are ultimately not going to make a difference, is counter productive.

Yes, I'm still interested in a refund.

When do you think I will get a response to the email I sent?

I don't know. Did you send it to the kickstarter address, or the general support address?

I believe general support, I also sent one through kickstarter a while back I believe.

I'm not sure how frequently the kickstarter email is checked now, but there will be a kickstarter update soon. The general support email can be quite busy, but it should usually have a response time within a day or two, though I don't know who would handle this, so it might be forwarded to the appropriate person.

Ok, it'd be great if that could be processed soon.

Anything new?

Do you mean since your last post when it was mid Friday afternoon in Belgium, or since the last time I said I didn't know what the response time would be or who exactly is responsible for handling this?

Just curious if I'd at least get a response, it's been a few days, but I can wait. Hoping to get a response soon

Yes, you should get a response. There should have been an auto-reply from the general support address.

I never got an auto-reply. I sent it to the info@ address

I don't think the has an auto-reply set up; it is answered by the same person who handles the general support, though.

Ok, thanks for the info

[quote=cRaZy-bisCuiT]I do also understand that 90 % of the revenue is made by windows users, 8-9 % from Mac and only 1-2 % - but the linux market is growing! In the meantime some publishers / game studios mentioned that 1 % is allready enough to pay off for porting their games to linux. This is why you can see all (actually NOT all) those nice indie and AAA titles out there being realeased for linux nowadays as well.[/quote]
You are quoting desktop usage percentages. These are [i]not[/i] proportional to revenue. The best counter example I can give is how Humble Indie Bundles, which publish revenue statistics, show how 20-25% of the revenue comes from OSX users, 20-25% from Linux users, and the rest from Windows users[1]. Using your numbers, that means that 1% of the market is responsible for over 20% of the revenue. This is the reason many developers who are not too entrenched in the Windows ecosystem (i.e. mostly Indies) consider it worthwhile to port to other platforms since such a potentially huge amount of their revenue comes from outside Windows.

[1]: I drew these stats from looking at the first two Humble Indie Bundles. They skew toward Windows later on, but I believe this is largely due to the fact that many of the later Bundles are Windows-only bundles.

**Edit: I'm sorry for the messed up quote. It seems quotes get disabled in the actual post, even though the preview looked fine.

So the reason for the delay boils down to shitty middleware. I would actually like Larian to explicitly call out the middleware in question in order to make it obvious to other developers and potential Kickstarter backers what kind of crap they should avoid.

I am happy to hear that Larian is attempting to develop their own cross platform implementation of whatever this unspecified middleware provided, as this means that possible future Linux ports of their games will be faster; we'll see how it works out for them. But until Larian can deliver something more tangible than promises I am going to be exceedingly wary of sending my money to Larian again.

This week there will be an announcement about the next update, including the Linux version.

UBBCode is disabled on new accounts to discourage spam (no clickable links), as well as other restrictions; if you edit your post and submit it, the quote and italics will work now.

Got asked for my banking information on a paypal refund, so hopefully that can be cleared up soon. Not interested in sending that type of information, especially since it's not needed for paypal.

Still have not received my refund, after a week. It'd be nice if the support team were more responsive.

Yesterday and today are holidays in Belgium.

I see... hopefully I will get a response soon, this weekend or early next week then. Think I've been patient enough...

I also saw the annoucement about the new edition. That dosen't change my interest in a refund, I still want the promised refund.

So far, it seems that the Linux version will still be a long ways coming, and may release after the Windows and Mac again, with the earlier talk of Linux development being halted (not wanting to merge multiple branches). Because of these, I still want a refund, and I will wait and see if the promised Linux support is delivered.

Until then, it seems like another promise that may not be delivered, especially since the DX11 renerer was talked about at length, but nothing about updates to Linux, such as fixing your middleware issues.

Could someone clarify something for me?

Larian is moving forward with a new version of D:OS, promising Linux support before the current version even has a public beta? Am I understanding this correctly, because that would be kind of dickish.

The Enhanced Edition is the new branch of code referred to in the OP.
The release version was out of date when the last patch was released (with specific updates and fixes moved to that branch of code), while the Linux version was on an even older branch at the time. Updating the Linux engine for the release version and then again for the Enhanced Edition was not practical (and would have further delayed the Linux release), so it is just being updated for the Enhanced Edition.

So what you are saying, Raze, is that the current branch's development is being restricted to patching and Linux, thereby giving the devs the chance to weork on the engine with a game that isn't a moving target?

When the Linux engine was finished it was quite out of date, with the delays due to middleware, etc. There was the release branch of the game, which was more up to date, though of course didn't include any of the things still being worked on (harder difficulty mode, new skills and abilities, etc). That work in progress branch of code is what will become the Enhanced Edition.
The Linux version is skipping the D:OS release, and being updated to the most current version for the Enhanced Edition.

I am so confused by this latest update. It is referred to as a "completely new game based [] on Original Sin", but then he talks about it as if it is just an modified edition. Which is it?

Did I pay for one game and got a different one? I don't think this is it...I think he was just trying (again) to--as someone else put it--use weasel words to sell this enhancement stuff. This whole thing is so bizarre haha.

I think if you read Swen's latest blog post you'll get an idea of why it's both really. They started out making a big patch with some content changes but it grew to the point of touching core game and quest mechanics such that it was no longer compatible with the original. You can't release a patch that breaks your saved games, so it's coming out as an EE. It sounds like it will certainly fit the designation. I don't see any duplicity, just something that was evolutionary.

I'm not sure why the 'completely' is in there, but the 'new game' means it is being released separately. As Windemere said, there were many changes to quests, skills, abilities, etc, that it would be impossible to maintain save compatibility, in addition to the updates to the game engine (switching to DX 11 on Windows rather than 9c, etc).

The Enhanced Edition is free if you own D:OS; Swen wasn't trying to 'sell this enhancement stuff'.

I'll guess it's like what happened with Ego Draconis and Dragon Knight Saga. Some places and quests were heavily reworked while others didn't change.

I am glad with that. I'd rather see a linux version in a progressive branch which can also be used for new games and wait another few months before I can play it.
Gives me some time to finish Divine Divinity, which I stopped playing after a crash with a 4 hour gameplay lost from my last savegame :-(.
Hmmm, should actually try that on my current desktop (armhf) with qemu.

Same here. Means I actually may replay on Linux once it is out, which I would not have done if it was exact the same game, only at a different patchlevel. Still, remains to be seen how different it really is.

What has me worried though is the following statement from Swen: "[...] it壮 better the Enhanced Edition has Linux support instead of the original D:OS. It improves the chances of our future games having Linux support too, though I don稚 want to commit to that just yet."

With more and more of the games I like coming out on Linux, there comes a point where I just can no longer be bothered with Windows. Would be a shame to miss out on "that very big RPG that will dwarf them all".

Still waiting on the refund, hopefully that gets processed soon...

You really want to quit after waiting for 2 years?
It's like being at 95%, and then wanting to go back.
Of course you have every right, because you have supported them for bringing out a linux version (I also did not play it yet).
But they had to cut some corners (as they were almost bankrupt) and pre-release the real D:OS (which is now called enhanced) to get a cash-flow again.
So our version (the linux version) is not the pre-release, but the version as Sven intended it, the version I actually payed for. Kinda like GTA-V for console and now GTA-V for pc (which I cannot play, damned principals).

My issue is that I don't really trust that it will actually be released on Linux and we've been waiting a long time. I hope it is, but I'd rather get my money back and have the option to buy it later once the support is actually there

It is done, being updated with the current changes for the Enhanced Edition, officially announced for Linux and SteamOS...

I'm aware it's been annoucned, I meant more of wanting to wait and see if that will actually happen this time.

Also, I'd like some clarification on the refund process, as to why the bank transfer is preferred. I don't really like giving out information like my account number usually and would like to understand why that is easier than a paypal transfer.

I would assume there is some time limit after which reversing a Paypal transaction is considered separate rather than a refund, so maybe the fees are higher or there is more bureaucracy involved. Larian also uses wire transfers for business purposes, so that may make things easier or give preferred rates, or something.

Just a question, then, if the Linux users never gets the promised Linux version of D:OS at all, what happens to the Linux users that do not conform to the new hardware system restrictions?

I can't blame people for wanting their money back - Larian skipped right past Linux and started adapting it for entirely different formats right away.

Would you have preferred Larian just update the Linux version to the (already outdated at the time) release version of the game, thus not getting the updates in the Enhanced Edition?

What make you think there is going to be a huge jump in requirements? On Windows the switch to 64 bit only and DX 11 will have more of an impact. For Linux anyone who can not play the Enhanced Edition would likely, at best, barely have been able to play D:OS. In that case what happens is the same as it is for Windows and Mac: sooner or later people will upgrade their systems and be able to play.

I would've preferred it if Linux would've been given the game it was promised, with the updates everyone else has gotten. I think that's fairly reasonable.



You say "on Windows"; will the Linux version not require you to have DX11-compliant hardware, too? No-one was talking about a huge jump in requirements, as you've been told before. It's a strawman of your own making.


Saying that people will "sooner or later" be able to play the game isn't just condescending, it's spoiled and classicist. Just because you've got money coming out of every orifice doesn't mean that others do.

Overall, the Enhanced Edition is a bit as if your landlord promised you a new sink. Over time, the sink grew into a promise of a remade bathroom. Then months later it turns out that you're going to be given this whole new apartment, adapted for the physically disabled, but you'll only get it if you've got a car over a value of $100 000. But it's OK, because at least you still have your old apartment with the shitty sink and crumbling walls.

I'm sure Larian would have preferred not to have any middleware problems, but that kind of thing happens in development. When the Linux engine was done, the choice was to update it to the outdated release version, or update it to the current version (Enhanced Edition). You can prefer something else, but those were the only options.

I don't know what version of OpenGL support will be needed.

The number of people potentially effected by the change in requirements is relevant to the discussion.

Saying everyone will upgrade sooner or later is entirely accurate, entirely practical and entirely reasonable. It is based on my own experiences and everything I've seen with computers over a very long time.
I have been unable to play certain games, and them many games, due to having an old computer. Even at the time, I knew I would eventually be able to play them. That is in no way condescending.
You don't need to be rich to have a computer that can play D:OS, or the EE. If you need to save to be able to upgrade, next year there will be more powerful computers for cheaper than this year, same for the year after that. Buying a console may also be an option (I bought an Xbox 360 on a boxing day sale before Divinity 2 was released, when an unexpected expense meant I couldn't get a laptop I had been saving to buy).

How is having a video card with DX 11 support (ie made in the last 5 or 6 years) equivalent to needing a $100k car? A 5 year old computer is typically low end; a $100k car is rather on the high end.

I have a feeling people won't want to upgrade their systems just for your game...

Also, this brings to mind how well you will work on improving the performance of your game, or are you just going to claim that we need better systems if we have issues?

Also, another option in terms of the Linux version was not to promise it until the devs actually had the ability to release it...

Probably not, but maybe they'll want to upgrade their systems because support for the operating systems, drivers, software, will cease as the market shrinks.

No one can blame you for wanting a refund after such a long delay. But after almost a year of waiting, you're putting yourself through all this trouble of getting a refund just to buy it again in two-three months? That doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

It's because I no longer trust that the game will actually be released on Linux after this long of a wait, and very little information about any progress towards the Linux port. I'd rather get my money back and see if the new version is working and worth it, instead of being disappointed again.

Also, this talk of upgrading systems and increasing requirements worries me, because the Linux performance may be subpar, due to faults in the game, and the devs just claiming you need a better system.

You are operating under the assumption that he'll actually buy the game in two-three months. Knowing what we know today, I wouldn't, and I wouldn't expect him to do it either.

Actually, you were apparently fine with little information. It was only once information started to be released, with official announcements, etc, that you started the refund process.

The entire conversation about not being able to play the EE is based on the Windows version switching to DX 11 rather than 9c, and the move to 64 bit only.
The performance of the engine has improved, due to better multithreading, etc.

Hard to say in this case, but I upgraded my PC last in 2008, and even then I only spent 400€ for board, RAM, CPU and GPU*. Yet, that box runs games on Linux just fine (Civilization Beyond Earth, Pillars of Eternity, Book of Unwritten Tales 2, Broken Sword 5). It also didn't break a sweat with D:OS on Windows.

It's true, the EE won't work on Windows for me, as the GPU is DirectX 10.1 only. But I do not worry too much about running the Linux version. After all, the existing OpenGL version runs on a Mac with integrated Intel graphics! (So again, no reason to upgrade :-(.)
______________________
[*] 4GB, Core 2 Duo@2500Mhz, Geforce 9600GT

No that's incorrect, the reason why I asked for a refund in the first place was you mentioned that refunds were possible in a steam thread, before the annoucnement was made. So, I just did it now because before I didn't think it was possible. After it was made I was still interested in the refund.

Here's the thread I mentioned (http://steamcommunity.com/app/230230/discussions/0/37470847983004609/#c613957600526562813). As you can see, that was before the new version was announced.

Also, in terms of information, all we know is that the Linux version may be coming in the future. No information on the improvements made to the Linux version, such as performance or rendering, or progress.

ka1man;
It was also mentioned in the comments for the latest blog post that there is an OpenGL build for Windows, as well, but Swen wasn't familiar with the details and thought there were some problems with it. Assuming those issues can be resolved, that may potentially remove the requirement for a DX 11 card in Windows.


d10sfan;
That was after it was revealed there would be an announcement very soon, which would include information about the Linux version.
There is no 'may'; the EE has been officially announced for Linux and SteamOS.

Ok, like I said, I asked for a refund at that point, because you said it was possible. As far as I knew at that point, that soon could be much later than it was. This was before the annocument was made about the extended edition. With the wording, for all I knew, it could have been cancelled.

It would have been rather rude to post a couple partial screenshots to tease the impending announcement of a cancellation, especially with this topic already explaining what the delay was and the fact that the Linux version was being updated to the most recent version of the code.

That's true, but like I said earlier, a refund was offered before the big news came out, and I took you up on that offer. Not sure why you see that decision as strange.

That wasn't my point, though .

I just wanted to illustrate that a cheap, 7 year old PC is sufficient to run a game like D:OS EE (on Linux).

OpenGL drivers on Windows (for consumer-grade GPUs) are definitely worse than their DX counterparts (and most likely deliberately so). OpenGL on OSX is also worse than it could be. So the (proprietary) Linux drivers may actually be the best of the bunch. As I said, I've no worries that D:OS EE for Linux would not run on my box.

In all fairness, I have to add that I run stuff at 1280x1024 only ... my 13yo LCD also fails to die on me :-(.

Just to chime in:
The D:OS enhanced version is D:OS as it should have been but to budgetting problems could not be before a new funding took place.
So you have to look at it this way:
D:OS current -> D:OS pre-release to get cashflow
D:OS enhanced -> D:OS (as it should have been)
So we linux users are getting the version that we payed for at kickstarter.
2 years of waiting is nothing compared to ordering an openpandora, that took for some 3 years to deliver.
To be able to create the good version that we are getting, the developers have worked their asses of to get the pre-release sold. Their very job was in jeopardy.
With the new cash-flow the developers could finally continue our good version.
So developers, larian, I thank you for the risks you took. And I can wait.
Kickstarter is for funding things like this. The risk is that you might have to wait longer (that's not a might, the question is how long, because no kickstarter delivers in time), have to ask for a refund (linux version not delivered or scrapped), or that your money is really gone. If you cannot be patient, the best is not to fund through kickstarter, but wait for the release.

D:OS was also announced for Linux.



It's hilarious that, if I understood everything correctly, if D:OS:EE ends up being released for Linux after all, I'll actually be able to play it... if I switch to Linux.

That's just so ridiculous on multiple levels it's hard to even believe. Not even sure whether to laugh or cry at Larian's idiocy on the issue.

Just got my refund, thanks for that. Hoping to see more news about the Linux versoin soon

Yes, there was a Linux version planned for D:OS. See the first post in this topic.
That's different than the EE being announced with Linux and SteamOS support.

"Larian's idiocy"? You're the one complaining you will not be able to immediately play the EE. I would think the possibility you may be able to play it would not also invoke complaints.

Ah, yes, of course, because I'm absolutely going to install a completely different OS just so I can play one game. That's completely reasonable.

I am not affiliated with Larian in any way Luckmann, so allow me to express what is probably on many a mind.

You are really FUCKING STUPID.

And because, being one, you are quite likely unable to comprehend just how it is people can reach said conclusion in regards to your person:

You will be able to play the EE on ALL, ALL platforms. For free.
In fact, despite better graphics, full camera angle (meaning areas are fully drawn now, ie more to render) more content, more audio to read, etc etc, Swen has stated that the perfomance is better than it was on the old, DX9 version.
Now if the above presents an insurmountable challenge for your brain to overcome, allow me to assist you further:

TLDR? I strongly suggest you seek a lobotomist.

Raze? Can't you lock this thread? You guys left it open for people to complain when they had a right to, and that was pretty nice of you. Now that they no longer do..

Oh, the delicious irony of calling someone else fucking stupid yet failing the most basic of reading comprehension.

I realize these are the official boards, but the fanboyism is just out of all proportion.

@SirDirty: You are missing the point on what people are complaining about. I should preface by saying (as I've said before) that the wait was _not_ the main reason I ever posted on this thread. The problem is not that we had to wait. The problem is that we were the _only ones_ who had to wait and exorbitant amount of time, and we never got very much acknowledgement except a few tidbits of non-information and outright BS. You don't think people have a right to demand for more, but that's your own opinion...one which you don't seem to support well.

a) I paid for D:OS, not D:OS EE. I wanted--within reasonable error--to get the same experience than every other person who supported the game.

b) Comparing a game to a piece of hardware is questionable to begin with. But Pandora was an entirely different beast, where uncertainty was a much bigger unknown. The two year delay for _this_ project are not within reasonable expectation for the size of the team working on it, and the reasons given are comedic. Linux support was clearly put on the lowest priority of the Larian backburner. Whether you are OK with it or not is not remotely constructive to the conversation.

I am glad you are indifferent to the situation, but why are you even saying so here? Having a circlejerk of hate is not productive, but all anybody wanted was to either communicate to the team (you are not part of it) or to get some answers (you provided none). The only conclusion I can draw is that you are just trying to be antagonistic.

@Aenra, Unlike SirDirty, you are just being a troll. Find something more productive? It wouldn't be unreasonable for this thread to be locked at this point, but it would be even more warranted to ban you. Being a clown that just tries to make others feel bad is low and that seems to be something that has no place in this forum.

You have been taught, as it is a norm most essential to the well being of our westernised world, that the hardest step a person can take is to look, really look, in the mirror.
Whereas in fact, the hardest step one can initiate for themselves is the one that ---enables--- them to comprehend just WHAT it is the mirror is showing them.

Petty, insignificant details for some, but nonetheless.
This is a public forum, so you are entitled to your shallow opinions. Simply allow me to state my own, as, it being public, others get to read all this too. If they are as retarded as you two, chances are they might form a wrong impression. We would not necessarily need that.

The facts are simple.
1) a delay. Fact. As such, complains regarding the previous version valid.
2) a "proper" release, playable on all platforms, aka EE version incoming. Fact. All complaints null.

You could not run it in all platforms. Once (re)launched you will. Your waiting is already included, see fact one. There.
Now re-read your posts, and attempt to eploy something beyond your usual scope, ie some grey matter. Form your own conclusions about the manner, and content, of your own posts. In light of that. You need not come back here and phrase it, if saving some 'face' is paramount to you, you can always keep your conclusions to your selves. The world will happily continue to move onwards.

You might want to look up the definition of a fact. 2) is as much of a "fact" as the fact that D:OS original was promised to be delivered for Linux. That hasn't happened so it is in fact not a fact, just as its not a fact that EE will come to Linux just because Larian is saying so. The only fact here is that the game has not been delivered for Linux as promised.

And, don't mind me asking, why are you replying in this thread? You seem to have no interest in the Linux version besides flaming people in this thread that actually do have an interest in it.

Is there any "Ignore" function on this forum? I am sick and tired of the infantile nonsense that is written by a certain user (you know who) that knows as much about software development as an ox knows about origami.

Back on topic: I would have wished for D:OS on Linux earlier, much earlier. However, I have been involved in software and hardware development, so I know that as soon as the D:OS code branch was abandoned in favor of EE, there was no reasonable expectation for a Linux version based on "old" D:OS. At this stage, nothing should be done on the old code branch except fixing show stopper bugs.

Such is life. Accept it and be happy to get a new, better game without any additional cost.

Click on a user name and then 'View profile', and there is a link to 'Ignore this user' in the menu under the profile picture and details.

Man, looking through this entire thread makes me thank my lucky stars that I am skilled and wise enough to be able to use BOTH Linux and Windows operating systems. The arguments and blatant inability to read information is somewhat insulting, though that was mainly due to a small number of participants (and the thread derailing, good job Raze for keeping this stuff on track, you did pretty awesome).

But basically, tl;dr you guys are getting an official linux version, no ifs ands or buts.

If you don't have a gpu that can run dx11, pm me and I'm sure we can work out a deal.

We've known this for about a year. We are just wondering when it comes. I'm not really keen on waiting another 12 months.

The Enhanced Edition will be released this year; it'll be months, but not 12.

@Aenra Even for a forum, that is the most inane diatribe I have ever read in my life. Granted, I read forums once every blue moon. I know you think that you put someone in their place, and I am glad for you. Entertaining a simpleton (as evidenced by the entirely gratuitous and uninspired aggression) is fine by me. If you want me to reciprocate some advice, just stay exactly who you are...being an angry clown seems to be your only marginally redeemable quality. Or maybe you are just constipated 24/7, no judgement then.

@Haleseen I don't need to dual-boot, and being able to do that is not a remarkable skill. I am a graduate student doing solid state physics simulations and analyze/present data every day and not once have I needed to use Windows. So...please explain to me, in my position, why exactly would it be "wise" of me to use Windows? To play a videogame? I beg you to enlighten me. And nobody is having a hard time reading anything, except perhaps you. See, people are reacting to the information that they read, not to any particular misconception in what they read. "no ifs and buts" you say...really? here is very simple but: ...but you have to keep waiting. Honestly, not a huge deal in the big scheme of things, but clear proof that you are not even trying to make sense.

Honestly, I didn't know nonconstructive and unwarranted hostile posting was the modus operandi of this forum. You guys are not providing any information, you are not giving any new perspective on the issue, and you are not even being humorous. Clearly you just want to alienate people to make yourself feel superior. At this point I don't even think it is trolling, just some self-important nonsense. At worst, complaining is childish. But your aimless bullying is truly just low.

protip: if you think a thread is dumb, ignore it and let it die. It doesn't help your (perverse) ego, but it is constructive to the forum.

tl;dr: zzZZzzZZZZZ

Man, guess you can't read either. I wouldn't think my 1 short post would need several paragraphs to respond to.

1. There's multiple people in the thread who ignored 'The update' that was given in the OP; clearly disregarding information provided.
2. You're limiting yourself if you only use tools generated for one OS when there are multiple, if not better tools and subsystems out there for Windows or Mac rather than just on Linux.

Also, dual booting? That's okay if you need to use one or the other, but often times you need to use both, and using virtual systems/machines are the way to go.

I am not particularly inclined to comment on just what a level of immaturity and insecurity one must be so as to indirectly announce they will be ignoring me prior to actually ignoring me.. Rather than just going ahead and doing so, which is indeed their right and well for them to exercise it;

I can also not find the energy to show in detail, because simply relating something to an autist is pointless, how wall texting something that can fit in a couple of lines will never, ever equate changing it. Fatcs being ..facts.. they are there to remain;

I will only explain, again since apparently each and every one of the "offended" parties seemed to "coincidentally" fail to notice my stating it, that this being a public forum, we got a lot of people coming in to read posts. Yours included. Impressions.
When therefore two simple facts, the second rectifying the issues brought forth by the former, are more than enough to both showcase the entirety of information available and curtail the misinformation, whining and inane commenting previously abundant, you may indeed count on me posting to pinpoint just such facts.

If my way of expressing myself (when in regards to your precious special person) offends you, perhaps you should first take a moment to analyse just what your way of posting signifies, in light of your person, and forfeit focusing on me. If only for the seconds it would take for you to notice that your selfish, ego centered whining aside, nothing, nothing whatsoever has been accomplished here. Hence my typing whatever it is i have so far typed.

If, and i know you actually are, find yourselves incapable of processing the above information, be the mature person and ignore me. Do not respond by simply adding more nonsense to an already nonessical thread. The fact that this thread remains open, and that a Larian employ has to babysit all your complaints even after the company has promised to rectify said Linux delay shows you all you'd need to know in regards to Larian and their ethics. All else is superficial, unwarranted and again, UN-productive.

If you think that people capable of posting NOTHING BUT superficial, unwarranted and again, UN-productive posts are anything but stupid? Then yes, feel free to feel offended by my calling you such. You are more than entitled to. Just do keep in mind that this a company's forum, not your forum. The guidelines here are quite possibly not those that (in your selfishness) you'd wish them to be

As far as OS usage goes, I'm of the same mind as mbf. Everything I need runs on Linux. I am not let limiting myself in the least. That is, of course, unless you consider games. Prior to grad school I played enough games that I did boot back and forth between OS, but that time has passed. There are plenty of games that either are native or work under a compatibility layer that I have no need for games that run on neither.

I am gunning for a degree in mathematical physics (my current research, interestingly is also in photoluminescence of quantum dots). I use the following programs:
Vim
GCC
TeXmaker
LibreCalc
Chromium

Tell me, what Windows only alternative would be better? One of the chief reasons desktop Linux is is this state is due to people thinking (falsely) that they actually need Windows for programs.

By the way, mbf, were you by chance at the APS March meet this year?

@nstgc: Well, 83% (while minGW is for GCC on windows) of the programs that you have listed can be used on Windows as well.

When/if you actually get a job somewhere, you're going to be using professional tools and applications that are most likely to not be supported on a linux OS. If that job only uses only MS Exchange or cares about security the slightest? Good luck having your linux... You have to fit your company, not the other way around.

MATLAB for instance, is primarily for windows operating systems, while it can work on linux it wasn't made specifically for it; and having ample support for the products that you use is key to actually doing anything since you can't do anything if it's broken or won't do what you want.

So to put it simple, why are you limiting yourself to one OS and complaining about why a game isn't working on that OS, when there's another OS that does have the game working on it? You seem to have a good computer and should know that device drives work a hell of a lot better on Windows than on Linux and as such would get a lot better performance on Windows. If anything, why not run Linux in a VM if all you use are basic tools like vim and gcc? That would solve all of your issues.

My reply seems to have contained too much truth and was deleted. I'll try again later.

Posts don't get deleted for too much 'truth', or (non-spam) content at all, except (very rarely) in extreme cases (in which case you would have gotten a PM telling you to knock off whatever it was).

I'm glad to hear that. I've seen harsher responded directed at other users as well as Larian. Mine was directed at Windows, and wasn't all that bad in comparison. Moderation without any indicated reason is something that really gets under my skin.

In that case there seems to have been a server bug.

are we there yet? :o)

Thank you, blessed silence from a certain direction now!

So, this is a long topic, most of it not very informative. I'm not even sure reading it all would help me have a correct idea of where things stand.
What I understand of it:
(Ill call DOS and DOS:EE the respective versions of the game)
- there will be no DOS for linux
- there will be DOS:EE for linux

DOS:EE on Windows has requirements bumped from DX9 to DX11. I don't know what this means on windows (having not used windows for many years) and I have no dea how this translates on linux which uses OGL.

Were the OGL requirements given somewhere?

At the moment I use intel graphic drivers.

Correct (DX 11 was introduced with Windows 7, with hardware support starting before then, so cards with just DX 10 support are likely more than 5 years old).

The OpenGL requirements have not been given yet.

Thank you.

One year since the game was released. GG Larian

There have been so many things that were discussed in this thread already. But there's one thing I really don't get ... at all: If you sell the linux version one year late, the retail price will have dropped (a lot?) already. So finally this 2 % of your customers who would have been willing paying the full release price ... just don't do that anymore. Many companies act like that. Are you guys aware of the fact, that you lose money?

In fact a CEO of a game studio said in the past: "If only 1 % of our customers would be linux users, it's already worth porting and supporting." If that's somehow true (regardless of the technical problems with the middleware this time)... mh.

Larian is aware of that fact. Part of the delay was unavoidable, and part there were other factors involved that made the chosen path the best option overall, despite the disadvantages.

The price for D:OS hasn't dropped that significantly; the last Steam and GOG sale it was 33% off. When the Enhanced Edition is released some people may want to wait for a discount they figure is appropriate for the age of D:OS, but that is not exclusive to Linux (just more of a potential issue since there is no Linux version of D:OS).

Thank you for the answer! So I expect you guys will try to avoid that in the future since you'll have a ready engine then which would make it possible to have a zero-day-release for Mac and Linux as well, right?

PS: Can we expect to have D:OS EE Linux release soon?

Yes, the point of doing the extra work for the Linux version (writing stuff to replace the middleware incorrectly assumed to exist) and updating it to the EE version was so the engine would be up to date and there would be the possibility to support Linux at release for future games.
Nothing has been announced about the 2 new RPGs in development, though (except that they are using the same engine and gameplay mechanics, with updates, of course), including supported platforms.

The plan is to release the Linux version the same time as PC (November-ish).

Oh rly? That's a long time to wait for. Anyway, now I know what to expect. Possibly I could try out D:OS by the end of the year.

Even though I like kickstarter a lot and also the games you guys develope, I feel like I'll only buy your linux games after they're released.

If there where no steamOS/hardware announced for this year, we would never see a linux version !
The EE is a console edition of the game and thats the reason why larian in the end released the linux version... steamos final announced for this year
Steamos in november... and EE in... like a lot other games too...

If there were no Enhanced Edition the Linux engine would have been updated to the released version of the game, and possibly be out already. SteamOS has nothing to do with the timing.

Win 10 version (e.g. DX12) uses 2.2% of Steam users. Its few days since release.
All Linux versions together reached whooping 0.89%. Status under 1 percentage is stable for years.

As long as Larians have to be profitable to be able to deliver another masterpies, I dont understand why to bother Linux. I see only one benefit, allow few nerds scream "Look, I am playing on Linux, and compiling nightly at once. Awesome!"

@Raze, and you know that why ? That is guesswork like my post...

@gGeo, because they made a "promise" in there kickstarter campain and tempt people to backe with this "promise".
And your view of things tell me just that you have no idea what it means to use linux for desktop pc's and that you still live in the 1980.

I know that because I actually read the first post in this topic. It would have been idiotic to have done all that work to get the Linux engine ported, and then simply abandon the whole thing without updating to a current code base. If there were no EE there would only be one code base to update to.

Plans are not promises, and Kickstarter does not exempt games from the normal development processes, which can, and very often does, include delays, changes and dropped features.

I see. Probably Larians believed that there is enough Linux audience prepared to pay. But well, Linux community is about students, vegans, geeks and other nerds who can so-so pay their bills. Maybe I am wrong, but if there is a revenue potential, Sven would force it already.
Educate me please. There is 99% of people who rather pay then use a thing for free. Lets have two cars, one cost 100Eur another one is for free. Most of the users owns the car for 100. Why ?

Because the 100€ car comes pre-installed in their new garage.

If you buy a product preinstalled, well then you pay for that.
Look for HP ZBook 17 G2 in your favourite shop.
You could buy it for x money without OS (freeDOS) or for x +100 with Win preinstalled.

Most of people choose preinstalled Win even its more expensive.
Most companies who has IT specialist so could support Linux specialty choose to pay. Why?
Because owners of the companies find out Win is cheaper. Less TCO. Thats it.

Most people do not have the choice, because they do not know to look for specific hardware from specific vendors. We'll see whether that may change once Valve releases their Steam Machines.


We're not talking about companies here. They are not Larians audience. Regardless, companies do have very specific needs in regards to the software they use, and that limits what IT can do.

Thing is, more people would use Linux on their PC if it were readily available (they happily use it on their Android device, even though they could buy a Windows Phone).

But all arguing is moot. The point is that Linux support was part of the Kickstarter. And I would not be surprised if the number of backers for which Linux support was an important feature was greater than 0.89%.


Just for the record, I personally am fine if Linux support comes late in form of the EE, but then I wasn't a backer. But I did buy it with the expectation that I could eventually play on Linux. And I will not back OS2 if it does not come with Linux support.

I doubt that will be an issue. Now that they've sorted the middleware issues, I believe the Linux and Mac releases should be much faster. Speculation on my part, true, but not without merit.

Hm, lets take a look on the market and buy a new pc with... uuh.. win preinstalled, today its protected with uefi bios too. Money, its all about the money, microsoft has just a good marketing. Why servers, not just webservers, most of the time run on linux ?

The list is long and the pro and con list is older then the pc itself...
I also know the times i compiled my kernel on my own because i have too.
I have windows aswell but just boot into windows to play games and thats the long driving motor behind windows, the games.
The use of Linux is mot just a statement for vegans and people you listed.
How do you upgrade 20 different softwares ? I push one button and wait a few seconds/minutes and you ?
I do it on windows too, klick the update, download it, deinstall the old version in some cases first, install the update, and so on for each application.
Windows 10 is trying to make things better, but for the cost of what ? You read the license terms ? You know what there scan and collect from you ?

Linux systems have a stable desktop today and are a real alternative for windows. But, as far as people or devolopers, especially gamedevelopers, still see linux as a small market with no chance, this will never change.

D:OS 2 is on kickstarter without linux support... what ever this means to the linux version of D:OS (EE) but it seems to me that they still have not really finished the engine on this side...

Mac or console support isn't mentioned for D:OS 2, either.
"Other platforms and languages may be announced at a later stage, once development is more advanced."

i could say "i told you" ...

Larian doesn't want to leave us hanging like last (?) time.

[edit] With EA pimping out Bioware, Larian, as far as I'm concerned, is the #1 RPG maker out there these days. Granted, I have neither played Wastelands 2, nor Pillars of Eternity, but as far as I can tell, they are top dog. Of course, that is also why this is so painful.

Oh well, I'm also waiting of Tides of Numenera, which I backed before DO:S.

[edit2] I'd really love just whatever nightly is going around Tuesday. That would sate my DO:S hunger.

This company is a f*cking joke. Taking my money to develop a Linux version and pouring it all into making console versions. I dont care if it's only one person that wants the Linux version, if you make it a kickstarter goal and reach it then stick to your guns.

Been waiting for this game for well over a year now but I've had it. How do I go about to get a refund? I'll just wait until it's on Humble bundle for $5 making sure my money goes to charity and not a single dime ends up in Larians pockets....

It makes financial sense to tap into a new market, but it certainly pisses off the established fan base.

You do realize the very first post in this topic is about the decision to port the Linux version of the engine to the EE branch of code, since it was not feasible to do both the current release branch and the EE?

The money pledged by Linux users was used for the Linux version, the budget for which was greatly increased due to issues with middleware, etc.

The console versions, funded by a publisher and proceeds from Windows/Mac sales of D:OS, had an extra certification process that it needed to go through, as well as manufacturing for the retail release. The PC versions of the game are digital only, and therefor had a more flexible release, which did not need to be determined as far in advance (and it was only fairly recently that Larian was confident the Windows version would be ready by the console release).

Without separate teams for every platform, the only way the game could be completed was to do the content first and focus on the console versions. When they got sent for certification, start switching over to the Windows version to focus on PC only issues (changes to the keyboard/mouse UI, etc), then port to Mac and Linux.
The plan was to have that process done for a simultaneous release, but it took longer than anticipated.

Email kickstarter@larian.com about a refund.

Yes Raze I know, I just replied to the quote. I've seen you defend Larians mistakes for about a year now, your job can't be easy.

The fact that the console versions gets released before the Linux version is a spit in the face of all who backed the project from the beginning, when consoles wasn't even on the paper. It just shows how incompetent Larian are when it comes to running a project of this size (either that or they deliberately ignore Linux which is even worse). Anyway, thanks for the email.

I have not defended any mistakes. I have pointed out the realities of game development, though (and software development in general, and other creative or iterative processes where ETAs can not be accurately predicted).

I'm a software developer myself and I know estimates are not a thing in this business, even though we are forced to make them. That doesnt excuse the fact here that they have the game ready for 3-4 platforms while lagging behind on others. Having separate code branches for the platforms (or had now?) shows that the Larian team should probably pick up a couple of books on cross platform development.

Until D:OS, Larian was a Windows only developer, with a lot of tools and procedures already in place. A Mac port of the engine had been started, and then stopped due to lack of resources, only to be restarted once the Kickstarter was successfully funded.
Regardless, there can always be platform specific issues which can interfere with plans for a simultaneous release.

Faceplanter, i hate this too. I'm pretty pissed off for the same reasons, but as much as I feel the salt in a fester wound, I can't deny that without console gamers paying for the enhanced edition, it would never have happened. I think the whole thing with Linux was handled very, very poorly. Yes, there was a middleware issue, and yes I understand that it's a big deal. The middleware oversight is part of the "handled poorly" bit.

I've also said many, many times, and I won't go back on it, that I want Larian to take their time and release the best product they can. This is the reason I have not once bitched about the fact that Torment: Tides of Numenera still hasn't been released. They are taking their time. If the game could use a new edition, which from what I've read it needs, then there should be a revamp.

Someone has to pay for that revamp, I bet there are few non-console gamers who haven't already purchased D:OS and would want to. That means a new market. A new market means a console port. Larian doesn't run on Wishes and Rainbows, they need money.

Are we getting the short end of the stick. Hell fucking yeah, but life is like that. It sucks, I'm pissed, but I have faith in Larian studios. They are not new to developing games, but they are new to the self publishing side of things.

This is one case where a publisher would have stepped in and sorted things out, making this games releases go much smoother. However, for us, not better. Either we would get the Paradox treatment, and a broken game, or simply no Linux version at all. That is the sad reality.

Asking for a refund isn't going to do anything but turn Larian away from another Linux release in the future. If you are so sure you can get the game for $5 later, then that means you too believe that Larian is going to pull through for us.

Well, the one positive aspect I see about this is that we may get a Linux version that has the worst bugs of the initial EE release already fixed.

Though I would not be surprised if there are platform-specific bugs present as well. And it remains to be seen if patches make it to all platforms in a timely manner ...

What about the Linux release now that the Enhanced Edition is released? I do remember, that you folks said that one will be cross platform!? Why is there no cross platform zero day release including Mac and Linux this time? >.<

To me it seems like Larian really doesn't want any money of either Mac or Linux users in the future.

EDIT: I don't even see an (encrypted) linux depot only atm.

https://steamdb.info/app/373420/depots/

Another deception.
I wonder if I'll get to play this game before it's available as 'budget'.
The reasons given are probably sensible, but some other devs were able to do simultaneous release (I don't think inxile or obsidian had any experience in linux dev either).
What's really problematic in my opinion, is not the delay (but well... _one year_!). Instead, it's the lack of communication on the subject. I was still believing what was said just recently, that the linux version would happen now. Only after release announce, when trying to download, do I discovered it's not there.
Communicate!

Same for me!

The delay with the Mac and Linux versions was announced in last week's Kickstarter updates for D:OS and D:OS 2.

I'm very sorry, I wasn't aware of that news, though #75 catched my focus.

Well I'm not a backer (shame on me!). And I follow the devblog rss but it's kind of dead.
No I'm not on twitter or facebook.

oh Raze you ARE defeating there mistakes. you must get money from them to do that.

there are so many fails larian did, i don't want to count them all.
in the end, 1 (and a half) year later, we still have no linux and mac version.
i don't care about "middleware" problems and all the other fu**ing weasel words, it was planned from the beginning to support mac and linux. there have to plan with that.

there have developed an "enhanched" edition in the meantime, there have developed a ps4 edition and a xbox one edition but still lacking there promises.(btw. first time for larian to bring a game to a sony console, and first game for the xbone)

and another btw.. "available now on ps4, xbox one and pc"
PC means personal computer, not windows !


but hey, it's from belgium, nothing new for a german

I don't think there is a need for personal attacks, or even that it would help for anything.

there is no personal attack, just facts, i don't want to offend anyone

i'd like to attack larian personally but that would probably just get me banned from the forum. as it stands i'm more than disappointed... releasing a console port before promised linux? sure, it will make them more money and that's just about all they really care about.

this consolification needs to stop. wasteland 2 did that just a few weeks ago and produced a downgrade while ignore glaring bugs... at least they had a linux version from the getgo.

there's no excuse for this break of trust and i'm mad at myself to buy into the hype of d:os 2. well knowing there won't ever be a linux version for that game. This time they only got the minimum out of me... and i still regret backing them again.

Hey Raze,

could you possibly update us regarding the Linux version progress? Will there be a beta in which we could participate as well?

Have a nice time,
cRaZy

Judging by the state of the windows version, yes, we'll all get the chance to play the beta. Unless we wait for the first couple patches ...

The Linux depot does exist on Steam already. Allthough there's no data inside (9 b) while there're encrypted testing Repos. You might want to check out [1].

[1] https://steamdb.info/app/373420/depots/

Any new news? December is tomorrow.

There is no ETA yet. There is a patch in the works, though, which should be released in a couple weeks, I'd guess (no official ETA). Presumably the Mac and Linux versions would be released after that update.

For all those 7 Linux addicts
- it could be cheaper for Larian to send all of you a Windows licence than pay a develop team for Linux version.

Looking for patch. I hope you have addressed all the skills, talents, dual wands balance issues generally. also combat getting easy and easier toward ends.

Honestly, I am glad that I only bought D:OS half a year after release (still at full price, though), and I guess I'd also wait some more before playing the EE, even if it would be released today.

I do have a Windows license, I just chose to not install it on my new PC.

Swen gave a little update on his Twitter feed.

Linux Addicts? We have are those freed from your Windows addiction. Microsoft and Windows are a disease! You'll be hard pressed to find a Linux user who wasn't once a Windows user first.

Source: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/larianstudios/divinity-original-sin/posts/1388342


Source: This threads title

December is practically over (work-wise) and again no Linux version. Unfortunately, I have to add "as expected". Larian cannot be trusted.

They already released the game for Linux.

Where? In your dreams?

Not on GOG or the Larian Vault and no announcement either.

It was released on the 23rd on Steam. It was already evening in Poland then, but GOG did update the Windows version on Christmas Eve, so hopefully the holidays will not delay the Mac and Linux versions too much.

The release was too late for press to pick up on any announcements, so there was just the Steam update news and a couple tweets. The last D:OS 2 Kickstarter update did say the Mac and Linux versions would be released any day.

Thank you for the Linux release! It was a long time coming but I'm having lots of fun in D:OS-EE with my brother-in-law and my daughter. I'm glad Larian did not give up.

playing it on Linux Mint 17.x. so far so good. :)