Larian Studios
Posted By: Valraven Bairdotr end fight absurdly unfair - 19/04/15 10:52 AM
Normally I never complain about a game being too hard, but the final fight against the defected Bairdotr is so unfair it's just ridiculous. First of all it's really annoying to loose a party member you have invested so much in over the course of the game without being able to do shit about it. Both of my main Characters have the "obedient" trait, so there's no way to keep Bairdotr in the party.

Then the fight itself: A Lvl 14 party of 3 going against 2 Lvl 14 enemies (Bairdotr and her refound mentor) should be manageable - in theory. Here, the guy summons those gore animals that do insane amounts of damage, easily 200-300 HP per round against characters that have about 700-800 HP. Their resistances are sky-high, most crowd control spells like Fear fail against them at least 50% of the time. And although these are clearly summoned creatures, the Destroy Summon spell does not work against them, just shows "invalid target"! The river, though being a water surface, for whatever reason can't be targeted with electricity or freezing spells, so that the "using the environment" tactic doesn't work either. And to top it all off, Bairdotr and her buddy have absurdly high defence ratings, both against elemental and normal attacks. My Lvl 14 Fighter has a 50& hit chance against Bairdotr, even after using a strength potion, while against other Lvl 14 mobs he's got 90%-100%. Oh, and did I mention that you can't flee from the fight since there's no rift portal around?

This is just insane. If anybody has any solution for this mess I'd be really curious what it might be, but in my view the fight is unwinnable. It's simply broken. The only solution is to go back to an earlier savegame and never finish Bairdotr's quest. And if I should play this game a second time, I'll just leave that treacherous bitch to rot in her cage.
Posted By: ivra Re: Bairdotr end fight absurdly unfair - 19/04/15 02:45 PM
Originally Posted by Valraven
First of all it's really annoying to loose a party member you have invested so much in over the course of the game without being able to do shit about it.

That is not exactly true. It is possible to get her to turn on her former master and keep her in your party.

I don't think it matters if you have the Obedient trait on your main characters. What matters is what you said to her during the dialogs your have had with her up to this point.
Posted By: Felixg91 Re: Bairdotr end fight absurdly unfair - 19/04/15 03:23 PM
Sorry- no really well thought out advice, but I had absolutely no problem wasting this encounter, using 2 14th level characters 1 tank and 1 mage in less than 3 rounds, Bairdotr is a creampuff and those gore-beast animals are all in a nice group perfect for a battering ram charge then a whirlwind followed by a dust devil, in truth its one of the easiest briefest encounters in the game. I dont think fleeing is ever really an option except with the death knights when they are invulnerable.

Change tactics and try again, something will work, dont rely on spells to kill as much as buffing the fighter ( is your fighter really defensive? because it sounds like your relying on spells to do the killing...weapons do more damage if you have planned and crafted and built your fighter effectively..I recomend 2handed fighter and crafted weapons and every ability buffing item you can get) and use spells for debuffing the enemy, sounds like your just not approaching it in the best possible manner. It is winnable, if I knew more about your party I could be more specififc.

Ivra is right though she only turns on you if you made bad dialog choices, another reason to like Wolgraff more.

Could just detach Bairdotr and leave her outside the cave as well, she does not have to be there to kill Jareth. May want to summon an Undead Armored Decapitator to soak and distract.





Posted By: Valraven Re: Bairdotr end fight absurdly unfair - 19/04/15 08:17 PM
@ivra:

Originally Posted by ivra
It is possible to get her to turn on her former master and keep her in your party.

I don't think it matters if you have the Obedient trait on your main characters. What matters is what you said to her during the dialogs your have had with her up to this point.


That's my point - you make some dialogue choices much, much earlier in the game without knowing what they will cause, and it's not like you have to be particularly nasty to her or anything to make her leave. It's really the obedient trait, at least I read that on another forum post here.

@felixg91: Your post made me wonder whether we are really playing the same game, so I hopped back into my save and tried your advice. Didnt' work at all. In each of 4 tries, my party was dead after 4 rounds. Contrary to what you said, Battering ram doesn't work on the gore beasts, they are immune to knockdown. They on the other hand have those crippling attacks that work on my characters 100% of the time.

So here's my party:

Lvl 14 knight str 14 dex 6 int 6 con 7 speed 10 perc 5; ini 14 ap 8; 626 HP; 136 armor 127 offence 61 defence; man-at-arms 3 pyro 1; tenebrium two-hander with ~ 150-250 dam/hit
Admittedly a bit of a glass cannon with his con of 7, so maybe I made a mistake there, but if I had propped up the con I would have had to forego the speed and I wanted the APs.

Lvl 14 witch str 6 dex 5 int 14 con 8 speed 10 perc 8; ini 15 ap 8; 721 HP; 48 armor 127 offence 56 defence; I went for a balanced skilling with aero 2 geo 3 hydro 2 pyro 3 witch 3.

Wolgraff lvl 14 str 7 dex 10 int 5 con 7 speed 9 perc 8; ini 14 ap 8; 641 HP; 62 armor 109 offence 77 defence; scoundrel 3; rapier with 50-80 dam/hit

Some details from the fightlog: Gory Taurus attacks Wolgraff for 251 piercing damage (armor absorbed 223). That's just one attack of one of those beasts, and Wolgraff has already lost 1/3 of his HP! Their spit attacks do 100-150 points of damage. On the other hand, even a critical hit by my knight does only around 350 points, and that's not even half of their HP.

And before anybody asks: Yes, I'm playing on normal difficulty.

Edit: Another thing I noticed is the highly random nature of the fights. The starting position of the gore beasts changed wildly in the 10 or so attempts I took at this fight. Same thing with Braccus Rex, sometimes he opened with a burning spell that killed one of my party in round 1, sometimes he didn't and everything went fine.

Posted By: Felixg91 Re: Bairdotr end fight absurdly unfair - 19/04/15 09:05 PM
HMMM thats disconcerting, sort of proves that even if many builds will work some will only work under certain conditions. Okay try easy difficulty for this fight and switch back afterwards, yes I hate that answer but it will improve the players chances to hit and vitality and lower the vitality and chances to hit of the enemy. I play on hard but I started on easy and died plenty of times...man I hate Lava!

Your stats seem low for 14th level, but you have no lonewolves and 4 members so they will be weaker because you have to divide gear 4 ways instead of three ways or two ways.

Fighter- well I never waste any points on spells for a fighter ( give em scrolls instead ) and 150-250 damage seems to be less damage than my Knight at that level does with a hand crafted 2 handed sword- leadership bonus and max weapon skill, 8 AP is definatley low though, usually by 14th level I have like 15+AP,.... and its not that battering ram knocks them down, its that it hits so many and places you in proximity to Jareth who I think can be knocked down all for the points you would use to swing once roughly. He does have opportunist? He has Flurry? He has Whirlwind and Dust Devil right? You say you sacrificed con for speed...really seems like both con and speed are low, my build order for fighters is STR, SPD, CON, PER, no points into Intel or Dex at all ever and PER only after STR and SPD are good. Your building a fighter so anything that doesnt improve his combat performance is superflous and a waste, honestly lots of fighters have swords smarter than they are, LOL. I wasnt recomending battering ram because it knocks them down thats the least of its uses it combines a move to targets with a strike at targets.

Witch- with a little of everything seems OK to me thats how I build my mage, all schools. Again 8 AP seems low though. Are you casting Haste and Oath of Desecration on your tank ASAP?

Wolgraff...okay did you give him a bow and bow skills? cause Wolgraff comes stock as a scoundrel but unless he sneaks and backstabs everything being an archer is more useful, some players swear by backstabbing and sneaking I dont since I dont play scoundrels, yes I use some of their skills

You are buying the level up stat books in hall of secrets at the homestead?

Maybe you made Bairdotr too good?

So what is your first round of battle like? Who wins initiative? What are your members first actions? How close is the party? What is their Marching order?

Honestly in 8 playthroughs it has never been even remotely hard, I have spent more time on this post than on that encounter.
Posted By: Raze Re: Bairdotr end fight absurdly unfair - 19/04/15 09:30 PM

You can also keep Bairdotr with you, and attack Jareth before getting close enough to trigger the conversation.
Posted By: Felixg91 Re: Bairdotr end fight absurdly unfair - 20/04/15 03:45 AM
Thats a decent suggestion as well, i have killed jareth before he can summon anything at least once.
Posted By: Valraven Re: Bairdotr end fight absurdly unfair - 20/04/15 07:14 AM
@Raze: I know, but that's not the point. I'm not looking for a way to keep Bairdotr in the party, I'm criticising what I think is a bad design decision. Now don't get me wrong - in other RPG's NPCs would leave the party, too, like in BG2, but there it was clear why (differences in alignment) and the player got some advance warning, whereas Bairdotr's defection comes out of the blue.

@Felixg91: I think I'll just start over with a new party, just realized my fighter is built badly. If this fight is so much harder than it's supposed to be, others will be the same. I didn't even know there were stat books you could buy, so I only got the stat raises from regular level ups. Along with the sub-optimal skilling, this has resulted in me hitting a wall here.

Anyway thanks for the help guys, I really appreciate it!
Posted By: gGeo Re: Bairdotr end fight absurdly unfair - 20/04/15 07:26 AM
Fight with Bairdoter has a flaw. The script removes her from the party and summon an NPC Bairdoter. This summoned one, has fixed skills and equipment and level. Once you come there at 16th level(for example) Bairdoter is down leveled. That's dull. The fight was not even close to challenge, actualy it was easy-peasy slaughtering.

Anyway I have fallowed a loading tip "Save your game often to prevent blood preasure." So I won, then load back to let her wait outside the cave then kill that Jared for xp.

I have tryed to Charm her, finish the fight without hit her, blind her. It didnt help. I wish there are more solutions. This quest looks simply under-developed.
Posted By: Felixg91 Re: Bairdotr end fight absurdly unfair - 20/04/15 01:47 PM
Or get the editor to do a respec on your characters. Valraven my first time through was a trial run i found lots of thngs to do differently my second and subsequent times there is no matching experience.

Oh yes stat and skill books are a must the fifth stone opens the hall of secrets every level up she stocks a 1 point stat book and a 3 point skill book. They are expensive . But well worth it in my estimation. Take all loot to her and save some items with barter and charisma and put em on when trading for the books.


When building a character i learned to look to your imperative, fighters should fight, mages should use spells, rogues should sneak backstab and steal, and rangers should shoot the enemy. Its fun to have multi class can do a lot characters but they dont tend to excel in any thing.

Dont worry my second party was far better and lots more fun to play.

You will beat this game, and i hope that you enjoy it and replay it a few times. I am on my ninth playthrough i think its even more fun than baldurs gates or icewind dales or temple of elemental evil.

As for help, i hope we did help. And if i helped then your sincerely welcome.
If i can do anything else pm me. Or post a question here.
Good luck and have fun.
Posted By: admiralskippy Re: Bairdotr end fight absurdly unfair - 21/04/15 04:04 PM
This quest is done rather poorly. I consider traits as minor perks and should not be used to determine game-changing events such as losing an entire character. The way Bairdotr's quest should have been handled is to have a RPS check between you and her with outcome as either +1 Independent and having her turn on her master or +1 Obedient and having her turn on you.
Posted By: Raze Re: Bairdotr end fight absurdly unfair - 21/04/15 05:21 PM

There are a series of dialogues with Bairdotr that determine how she will react when you get to that point.
Posted By: vometia Re: Bairdotr end fight absurdly unfair - 21/04/15 09:37 PM
I'm slightly ambivalent about it: I kinda see the overall point, but it came as a nasty surprise when it happened. So, yeah, add me to the list of people who "cheated" by leaving her just far enough away to not join in the conversation but close enough to join the fight!

At least that was one that could be fixed using the previous save: I also share another similar peeve with Dragon Age Inquisition that results in getting Nasty Leliana... if you don't interject in a conversation very early in the game at a time it felt it wasn't really your place to do so. Now that one I really didn't appreciate.
Posted By: Felixg91 Re: Bairdotr end fight absurdly unfair - 21/04/15 10:53 PM
Yeah Bairdotr for a lot of reasons is not the NPC I bring along on my quest. I like that she is an archer and her voice-acting is good(probably the best of the 4 I think, I really hate Madora and Jahan's voices they sound like sy-fy channel actors)... but Wolgraff can be made an archer as well and seems to be a better choice in so many ways. The fact he doesnt talk bothers me not at all.

Too bad Valraven got blindsided, hope when he/she plays through again its better, probably will be better since his characters were kind of stunted ( my first party was poorly built a mostly inevitable result of lack of experience and system knowledge), which makes a frustrating unfulfilling game, but he was doing a lot of stuff right since he got that far with those characters and made it to 14th level.

But that encounter even with a defecting Bairdotr was brief, bloody and final for me first time and every time.
Using scrolls sometimes helps a lot. Have summon scrolls on each character and use that first turn to summon. Summons are good at absorbing hits so your party members do not have to. Also a few heal scrolls and pots can go a long way as well. If you can get your hand on a higher level scroll like death punch or lava, they also make fights easier as you cannot normally have those spells until later.
Posted By: virumor Re: Bairdotr end fight absurdly unfair - 02/05/15 03:02 AM
Bairdotr didn't leave me so fight was not very hard.

I find it funny however that so many fights feature enemies summoning tons of enemies out of nowhere.
Posted By: Blablabla Re: Bairdotr end fight absurdly unfair - 07/03/16 09:11 PM
Just had that shitty fight.
1st attempt: Party is at level 15. The gory bull gets to go right after being summoned and deals 59% of the max health of my fighter in two attacks in the first round. Armor was around 224.

2nd attempt: Against one of the mages that bull deals 493 damage in one attack. That's 81%!
The boars are immune to knockdown and have a fucking ranged attack. So first round the mage is dead. She was also the healer.

I am done with this game. I am not having fun at all because of the horrible "boss gets to go first and summons more creatures than you have members in your party, oh and he of course has ridiculous health and damage too and the rewards are shit too". EVERY SINGLE FUCKING TIME!!
Posted By: Raze Re: Bairdotr end fight absurdly unfair - 07/03/16 09:49 PM

Turn order is based on initiative, and there are things you can do before triggering combat, including party positioning.
Posted By: Blablabla Re: Bairdotr end fight absurdly unfair - 07/03/16 11:37 PM
But I am not "triggering combat". I am talking to some guy and the designer thought no matter what this will end in a fight of either 6 against 4 or 7 against 3.

This is a single guy in a cave, not a giant skeleton with a burning skull that everyone told you is a tyrant. Why would I assume there is combat soon?? Try to see it from a new players point of view. You talk to someone and suddenly completely out of the blue you're in a fight you can not win. Why did the designers think that's a great idea?
Posted By: Raze Re: Bairdotr end fight absurdly unfair - 07/03/16 11:59 PM

You get into a conversation with one character, and 3 characters are not in a conversation.

Why would you assume a cave with a river of blood and a big pile of bodies was safe? As a new player, why would I assume any new, hidden area I find is safe?

There are conversations earlier in the game that can result in combat, and combat situations that start with a conversation.
Posted By: Abraxas* Re: Bairdotr end fight absurdly unfair - 08/03/16 10:14 AM
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I am done with this game. I am not having fun at all because of the horrible "boss gets to go first and summons more creatures than you have members in your party, oh and he of course has ridiculous health and damage too and the rewards are shit too". EVERY SINGLE FUCKING TIME!!

That's why the big players of game industry track every step of you playing their games and simplify every single aspect of their so called AAA games that includes the risk to be uncomfortable or surprising for you, and why Larian Studios (by NOT doing so) save rpgs from being as trivial as toothbrushing.

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Why would you assume a cave with a river of blood and a big pile of bodies was safe? As a new player, why would I assume any new, hidden area I find is safe?


Yeah, it's pretty obvious. Why not facing the challenge and thinking of strategies to win this fight? And why expecting from a badass sourcerer to be fair? Charm his summons and have fun! Or spam summons yourself!
Divinity Original Sin would be a huge disappointment (as most games are) if it adapted the universal patterns of games designed by marketing research, not by creative people.
Posted By: Aenra Re: Bairdotr end fight absurdly unfair - 08/03/16 10:32 AM
Goblin agrees. Dumb hoomans, fight without spirit aid.
Bang human skin drums, better percussion. Spirits always listen percussion. Very picky.
Posted By: Blablabla Re: Bairdotr end fight absurdly unfair - 08/03/16 03:02 PM
Originally Posted by Abraxas*
... simplify every single aspect of their so called AAA games ....
Name a few AAA games that are not challenging on their highest difficulty level? And how exactly is Larians way of adding high health and damage enemies different to what other gaming companies do? They all bloat the difficulty of their games with that!

Originally Posted by Abraxas*
...
Yeah, it's pretty obvious. Why not facing the challenge and thinking of strategies to win this fight?[quote] Because I don't have fun with this game anymore. I defeated every boss up to that point in the game. And they all were not fun.

Stunlocking Bracchus to avoid him murdering everyone with his meteor shower was not fun. Using shokepoints and killing enemies one by one as they get to it in the Bracchus and the Dietrich fight wasn't fun.

Seeing 100 physical damage + 25 water damage from a bow being reduced to 8-10 damage against the Ice King because he gets healed by ALL elemental damage wasn't fun. Getting shitty 10000xp for that fight which is around 6% of the XP you need to level up at that point didn't help either.

And having to do the same shit again is not fun.

[quote=Abraxas*]... Charm his summons and have fun! Or spam summons yourself!
Divinity Original Sin would be a huge disappointment (as most games are) if it adapted the universal patterns of games designed by marketing research, not by creative people.
And if the Charm fails and the bull kills one of your characters in the following round, reload until you get lucky? Is that fun to you?

Originally Posted by Abraxas*
..creative people

I cast Frozen Shard on him instead of talking to him. He gets frozen and immediately unfrozen again but at least he lost his first turn. No summons. Cast Magical Poison Dart on him. Combat log line reads:
Jareth of Homeforest took no damage.
I hit him with a stun arrow and a normal arrow: 388 damage less than 25% of his life.
A mage with more than 1500 health.
Use crushing fist on Jareth: Immune to knockdown. But only in the first round.
Blitz Bolt stuns him and my warrior. He is stunned for one round. My warrior for two. But that is normal because EVERY SINGLE ENEMY after level 10 or so is affected by conditions one turn less than the spell description says.

You are right. Very creative!

You know what would have been creative? A none combat solution like Mass Effect, one of those AAA titles you talked about above, managed to do. But that game was clearly written by marketing research.

The problem is not that I can't beat him. The problem is beating him is not fun!
Posted By: Chrest Re: Bairdotr end fight absurdly unfair - 08/03/16 05:24 PM
If there is a problem, I don't think it's the fight difficulty per se. But perhaps Baidotr conditional and unexpected betrayal. When it's your first time it becomes a fight whose difficulty is VERY variable (Baidotr with or against you? Big difference!), and when it isn't... well... why would you pick Baidotr and level her up just to lose her?...

Does anybody know what happens if you win the fight? You just kill Baidotr and that's it?
Posted By: Abraxas* Re: Bairdotr end fight absurdly unfair - 08/03/16 05:49 PM
Your posts indicate expectations this game does not sustain by its approach (I'm not speaking of good or bad here) and some kind of unwillingness to accept and use what it offers, expressed by words like 'shitty fight', 'fucking ranged attacks', 'rewards are shit' and 'every single fucking time'. Expectations like special rewards for doing something, crushing enemies on the first round(s) (which is, unfortunately, possible in almost every fight!), always being superior (i. a. quantitative), enemies having low resistance (so CC is always succesfull), low health and low damage values - less than you or equal - (which, unfortunately, is often the case), the game telling you explicitly that there is a boss fight in the blood cave, not having to reload sometimes or level up if a fight was too hard.

Some arguments have already been made, but to response to all your points:
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The gory bull gets to go right after being summoned and deals 59% of the max health of my fighter in two attacks in the first round.

Initiative allows you to go first. Control the bull. Don't expect to be succesfull on your first attempt. But your amount of APs should allow you to have several attempts.
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So first round the mage is dead. She was also the healer.

It's always a bad idea to rely on one single healing option, especially when having three or four party members that receive damage.
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summons more creatures than you have members in your party

As I already said: Why not summoning, too? It's a good idea to spend one point in Geo to be able to summon a spider, or Witchcraft for sceletons if you need support. 3 oder 4 members: up to 6 or 8 party members! + Charmed enemies! So 10 or 12 is theoretically possible. That's just one option.
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ridiculous health and damage

Damage can be hard: so control enemies and kill the strongest first. And speaking of health: 388 damage is more than 25% of his health (or did I get you wrong?). And one fourth with two arrows for a 'boss' enemy is quite much! And he's a source mage, not a philosopher wink
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Blitz Bolt stuns him and my warrior. He is stunned for one round. My warrior for two. But that is normal because EVERY SINGLE ENEMY after level 10 or so is affected by conditions one turn less than the spell description says.

If Blitz Bolt stuns both the mage and your warrior something went wrong.
The description might be wrong. Enemies get stronger. But so YOU do. It's possible to end statuses earlier if you have high bodybuilding and willpower. And there should be a talent.
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You know what would have been creative? A none combat solution like Mass Effect, one of those AAA titles you talked about above, managed to do. But that game was clearly written by marketing research.

And there ARE ways to avoid some fights, as Raze said. Not for this fight. Can be extended for roleplay purposes, I agree. At this point the game wants you to fight, or not to fight. You don't have to fight him, do you? And if you have to fight, because a quest wants you to fight, so fight the fight as the quest says.
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This is a single guy in a cave, not a giant skeleton with a burning skull that everyone told you is a tyrant. Why would I assume there is combat soon?? Try to see it from a new players point of view. You talk to someone and suddenly completely out of the blue you're in a fight you can not win.

As Raze said: there are tons of dead bodies, and blood everywhere. So...?

I can't agree with most of your points, although I don't think that combats are always designed well or the balancing cannot be better.

I remember Witcher 3 for not being a good game for its challenging fights, for example. The combat system allows you to fight enemies within a certain level frame (your level + a few levels above) easily, and sets artificial limits, so enemies you can fight (being close to your level) are generally easy if you got used to the mechanics. And Skyrim? I can't compare it for its broken balancing. Very easy on low difficulty, on higher difficulties absolutely weird relation of health and damage between you and your enemies if you level up (by alchemy, lockpicking or what else). Its difficulty comes from artificiality. - But that's not what I wanted to talk about.

Divinity Original Sin EE is more too easy than to difficult (even on highest difficulty), if we take 'difficulty' as the difference between the worst possible builds and player skills that are successful on a difficulty level - and the possible best (the greater the difference the easier the game). And some summons out of nowhere (which I don't like very much either) and some higher enemy HPs is neither impossible (or very difficult) to fight nor very artificial.

Your conclusion (done with this game) is quite hard, and in some points it does not seem to be fair. That's all I wanted to say.

Posted By: Blablabla Re: Bairdotr end fight absurdly unfair - 12/03/16 07:44 PM
I am going to repeat myself: "The problem is not that I can't beat him. The problem is beating him is not fun!"

I have charm. I have summons. And I used them so many times that it's not fun anymore. It's repetetive. I wonder if you can beat every fight without charm and summons.
Posted By: Abraxas* Re: Bairdotr end fight absurdly unfair - 12/03/16 08:34 PM
Have you tried some other options? I use summons quite often to support my party (especially when playing two lone wolves) but I don't think there is a need to use them. There are very good possibilities to control crowd and/or finish most of the enemies quickly, so you don't need summons. Static clouds are a very devil thing. Icewalls can both protect you and freeze a couple of enemies. Rain, water bombs, water arrows on enemies, and some electrics. Fire Master skills in combination with poison. Healing options: zombie + high fire resistance on armor and fire resistance spell (or something similar to reach 100+) + (optional) life leech - attack your party and enemies with poison and fire: dead enemies and your party on full life. Two handed or dual wielded warrior with crafted and boosted weapons + damage buffs from witchcraft and man at arms skills: crushes everything. Summoning all the time can be tedious, I agree. But I don't see a need for many or for any summons and charming spells.
Posted By: Blablabla Re: Bairdotr end fight absurdly unfair - 13/03/16 11:06 AM
Originally Posted by Abraxas*
... But I don't see a need for many or for any summons and charming spells.
What you absolutely need is a way to completely remove certain enemies from the fight. Stun, summon or charm are ways to do that. But you HAVE TO DO IT! A cyclops bonecrusher will just murder your mages in one round unless you remove him from the fight for a few rounds.
If you don't remove the bull from the Jareth fight, meaning prevent him from attacking your characters, it will destroy you. There is no choice here. You HAVE to do it.


The same with death knights. The first group of three death knights I could defeat because I got lucky. The one who has destroy summon acted last. So all where blocked by Nick.

But the second group the one with destroy summons acts first. He kills the summons walks over to where my group is and hits my warrior for 50% of her max health. And then the other two join in and first round half my group is dead.

Even worse was the fight against Grutilda. Game over in the first round!!! She transforms, kills Jahrl, battering rams to my group and rages and still has enough AP to attack three times in a row. Killing my warrior and the healer both source hunters. Bam. Game over in one round. It's pure luck to survive the first round. And that is shit.

Posted By: Lilithium Re: Bairdotr end fight absurdly unfair - 05/05/16 03:10 AM
I just beat him in one turn at level 14 before he could even do anything, after many many unsuccessful attempts. I was worried about the level difference because he was level 15 and the difference between levels is very noticeable in this game, but I sent in Madora to use Flurry, she critted on 3 of the hits and that took out most of his health. When he tried to run past her to the middle to summon his lil friends, an attack of opportunity arose and he died. This obviously may not OHKO him like it did for me (critical chance is the only reason it worked) but it'll put a big dent in his health regardless. Hope this helps!
Posted By: gGeo Re: Bairdotr end fight absurdly unfair - 05/05/16 02:13 PM
Originally Posted by Blablabla
But that is normal because EVERY SINGLE ENEMY after level 10 or so is affected by conditions one turn less than the spell description says
Walk it off talent ? You can take it too.
I am quite curious how people could complain. There are 4 difficulty levels. And you could tune it down suits your needs. (well if you are not heroic)

For me I have complain too. Combat is easy. Computer moves are childish. Enemies tend to jog over fire and burn themselves, tend to attack you by element witch heals you, enemies tend to attack closest enemy so they they could be fooled to waste time on summon decoy instead of mage, and so on and so forth. Simply pathetic combat.

So my friend Blabla, choose explorer difficulty and have fun. I have bigger issue than you, no current difficulty is enough tough. e.g. I cant enjoy a game at all :-/ What should I do ?

Originally Posted by Abraxas*

Divinity Original Sin would be a huge disappointment (as most games are) if it adapted the universal patterns of games designed by marketing research, not by creative people.
+1 Internets.
Posted By: DayVlad73 Re: Bairdotr end fight absurdly unfair - 05/05/16 03:56 PM
If you spent as much time as you do whining about this Awesome better than any game I've ever played game,as lets say on perhaps creating different or better character builds to ENJOY the game with then maybe you would appreciate what awe-inspiring and thoughtful development technique was put into creating this priceless gem,and instead praise Larian for allowing a feeble mind such as yours to be graced by an enigmatic source of entertainment. Picture this.....I (whom is spinning this web of praise towards the development team),cannot even play Divinity right now!!!!! Due to a technical problem I am experiencing, however;minus my initial contact with them you DO NOT!!! hear of me whining and caterwauling because I cannot PLAY THE GAME which is a far more serious problem than an overpowered battle in a fantasy RPG, dude seriously quit being a girl unless you are one...HA!!! and just appreciate what the developers have done for you thus far, and STOP b@!$#ing!!!
Posted By: DayVlad73 Re: Bairdotr end fight absurdly unfair - 05/05/16 04:03 PM
If you spent as much time as you do whining about this Awesome better than any game I've ever played game,as lets say on perhaps creating different or better character builds to ENJOY the game with then maybe you would appreciate what awe-inspiring and thoughtful development technique was put into creating this priceless gem,and instead praise Larian for allowing a feeble mind such as yours to be graced by an enigmatic source of entertainment. Picture this.....I (whom is spinning this web of praise towards the development team),cannot even play Divinity right now!!!!! Due to a technical problem I am experiencing, however;minus my initial contact with them you DO NOT!!! hear of me whining and caterwauling because I cannot PLAY THE GAME which is a far more serious problem than an overpowered battle in a fantasy RPG, dude seriously quit being a girl unless you are one...HA!!! and just appreciate what the developers have done for you thus far, and STOP b@!$#ing!!!
Posted By: Digita1Dog Re: Bairdotr end fight absurdly unfair - 16/08/20 08:40 PM
Just went through this fight for the first time. Got smashed (much like my first try against Braccus Rex).
I don't mind getting crushed in battle, but the fact that I will lose one of my chosen characters with what was essentially no buildup... I like death and tough choices, but damn this one was just poorly done. I guess I will be cheesing this fight because I'm not prepared to cripple my party by "randomly" losing one of my strongest party members.
Posted By: EvilRebar Re: Bairdotr end fight absurdly unfair - 28/09/20 03:22 AM
Just hit Jareth on my first playthrough and was severely disappointment to lose my damage powerhouse character to an unbeatable defection! With my party at 75% the encounter was severely overtuned - I'm not a guide-reading min-maxer. I could kill Jareth and might have had a slim chance at an overall win, but once I saw that Jareth's death didn't bring Bearface McArrow back to my side I just triggered combat without talking to him and beat the encounter fairly easily. Tips: the summons can be killed with Destroy Summon, and using scrolls to dump your own summons on the battlefield allows you to burst him down fairly quickly.

My residual complaint is that this approach does not allow me to finish Balty's questline, and indeed she still gushes about her former mentor as we stood on top of his body. It feels either sloppy (broken quest) or insanely unfair (defection). My immersion is temporarily frustrated, as my party member mowed down her former mentor/father without noticing he died, and then continued whistling on her way.

Overall still a great game, but this part could use tweaks to either make defection part of dialog choices (instead of personality traits) and hint at the consequences. Also, add some recognition of killing Jareth (e.g. having Bairdotr mention that she was mourning him but understood that he was evil).
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