Im pretty disappointed with how they decided to model the lizard race. In Dragon Commander, they were dignified, graceful, and elegant. I really was looking foreword to creating a character to make her look as much like princess Camilla, whose character design I just adored, but taking a look at what we have to work with in DOSII... they look feral, savage, uncivilized, with necks twice as long as they used to be, and faces so alien and beast like, they make the lizard diplomat and Edmund look humanoid in comparison. Im hoping they add a humanoid looking face to the mix for them, because they look closer to savages, then the dignified diplomats and spell casters they are supposed to be.

Lizards are perfect.

If you want to play colorful long-people, that's the Elves niche this time around.

Ironically they are the only race I like a lot (aesthetically) in the game so far.

I would like to see a second body type for all races

I disagree, I hated the way Camilla looked, it reminded me of the Navi straight out of Avatar. Nevermind how she looked completely unlike both Edmund, AND the other female Lizard in the game. She was flatout like a different species altogether, so much so that I expected her to be mocked or criticized for looking like an inferior human.

The only criticism I have for the lizards right now, is that the necks seem a tiny bit too long, and the male heads and 'hair' being somewhat inferior in quality to the female options.

My biggest complaint is how awkward the animations are as of right now. The Lizard Female animations for the bow are grossly exaggerated, and somewhat unrealistic, from my experience...

I respectfully disagree that Lizards look savage and uncivilized. Acesahn, you seem to be making a lot of unfounded assumptions.

It seems to me that you are of the opinion that only human-looking individuals can be civilized. This is obviously not true, since the quality of being civilized is not dependent on appearance. [Cambridge Dictionary]

I think that Lizards look excellent, including their long necks. Their models and animations are fitting to their species, while their necks help accentuate just how different they. Larian did an admirable job with them.

I would like some special armor graphics for the lizards feet something that fits the feet however not just a default boot its cool that they have a different foot shape than every other race but it is hard to put on boots and still see them running around barefoot it just doesn't seem right.

What? I love the lizard animations. Especially I like how the female ones are a weird mix or birdlike but also feminine. The fact that you can recognize humanoid movements in them but also something else really sells them as a convincing species with widely differing anatomy in my mind. I also like how frigging tall they are. I have a tendency to go for height extremes. So I enjoy either being a tiny gnome smashing kneecaps, or to tower over everyone else.

одно слово,черная чешуя для игрока, даешь черного принца !
красному нужен соперник)

one word, the black scales to the player, giving the Black Prince!
Red needs opponent)

I actually like the look of the lizards, but this is an absurd way to justify it.

They absolutely look more barbaric, and their biology is literally more savage (pointed teeth and fire breath). Of course, culture is different from biology, and I'm very comfortable with that contradiction.

That said, if you have experience from previous games that told you to expect something like Princess Camilla, then I can appreciate the feeling of disappointment. I'd be pretty disappointed if the next Mass Effect game dramatically changed the appearance of the Asari.

Ayvah, I disagree with Acesahn's position that only human-looking individuals can be civilized. I simply made an argument against his, because I am interested in his counterarguments. I was not trying to justify anything.

"savage: extremely violent, wild, or frightening; barbaric: extremely cruel and unpleasant" [Cambridge Dictionary]

It seems, that as far as appearance is concerned, savage and barbaric qualities are entirely dependent on subjective opinions and emotions. If, for example, you find a species' appearance frightening or wild, they can easily seem savage to you. However, this will not mean that the same species is objectively savage.

I like you, Ayvah. I am not sure what you are trying to do here.

To simplify:

He complained that "they look feral, savage, uncivilized". I infer this to mean that he feels they should be civilised, but their appearance is a contradiction to this. He doesn't like this.

You made a valid point that looks are subjective anyway, but you spent a lot of time dwelling on your point that civilization is literally cultural, which misses the point. He said they look uncivilized.

The following statement, while subjective, should not be controversial. "they look feral, savage, uncivilized [...] and faces so alien and beast like"

I agree that it's a contradiction for a civilized race to look so wild, but I think that contradiction can be justified by context.

At the beginning of my first post, I handily summarized my point. I quote:
This is the only statement I have been arguing for. I disagree that I missed any point, since I haven't made any other.


However, earlier, I have said:
It seems to me that I was exclusively talking about appearance.

I've also argued against them looking objectively savage. If you agree that savage appearance cannot be objectively identified, then there is no point in arguing about it.

Lastly, you seem to indicate that you find their appearance wild, which appears to you as a contradiction to the fact that they are civilized. It seems to me that this is your opinion, about which there is no point in arguing, either.

Your post, however, does not shed any light on just what you are really trying to do here.

Indeed. I hate that so many rpges that have multiple races they all are something of a human with different colors of skin or hair or pointy ears.

I am very very very happy that larian made the lizards look more exotic and not just Argonian copies. Lizards are sentient reptilians. Not humans with reptilian genes spliced into them.

That being said. I am sure modders will make at some point less "savage" version of lizards. For my taste they could make them even more so. Or more exotic races.

I agree. I've too seen some lizard people use bows, and their in game animations look nothing like how they do in real life.

I disagree. I like the way the lizards (and every other race) looks.

I am really confused about how you're making your point.

However, I will point out that they are objectively savage in appearance and biology.

The Human's special ability is leadership. The lizard's special ability is breathing fire as an attack. The lizards have sharp claws, and a large mouth filled with carnivorous teeth. This is indisputably violent, therefore savage.

In fact, humans are easily the least violent or savage out of all the races in terms of biology. Dwarves are extra strong and built for damage. Elves are cannibalistic. However, lizards the ones who unambiguously look savage.

Yeah, humans look less savage, but they can be the most evil of all anyway.

Although I understand that the lizards are fond of slavery? And the Red Prince mentioned that if he were anything but a Prince, then he would have been killed at birth.

They may not be as civilized as their wardrobe and cities imply.

(Also true of many humans.)

The Roman empire envisioned themselves as the most civilized power in the known world although they were pretty brutal and intolerant at times and although they held slaves.

Everything is a question of perspective.

In the early kickstarter snippet about them as a race, I recall it mentioning that they actively partake in selective breeding to cultivate physical traits that they consider ideal. That seems to fit very well with what the Red Prince implies.

Ayvah, please pay attention. We were talking about appearance. Must I quote my original argument again?



"violent: using force to hurt or attack; used to describe a situation or event in which people are hurt or killed; sudden and powerful" [Cambridge Dictionary]

If we accept the Cambridge Dictionary as a credible source, it becomes obvious that the mere existence of claws or teeth on someone is independent of the quality of being violent. Please use a dictionary if you are uncertain of the meaning of some words.

Lizards look great.

The only strange thing about lizards is that they get tail boners when they speak or attack, which looks a bit awkward to me...

I think they are looking at it from a very human-centric perspective. Humans evolved the way that we have mostly in spite of our lack of natural weapons, and in this case they are attributing it as a desirable sign of civility and not something that 'just happened' and that we had to deal with.

I think you are making a good point, Nivv. It doesn't seem to me that Ayvah is arguing along the same line though.

I think that many could consider an individual with sharp claws and clearly visible fangs menacing, which could lead to an air of unease. This stressful atmosphere is hardly conductive for serene interactions, so some could find it objectionable.

I disagree. They look very civilized to me and their general appearance is by far my favorite of the races. :)

You're saying you're talking about appearance, but you contradict this by trying to demonstrate that these words cannot be used to describe appearance.

The function of sharp claws, the function of sharp teeth, the function of breathing fire on your enemies is violence.

The effect of seeing tools that appear designed for violence is that they appear violent. Seeing a soldier armed with an AK-47 looks violent. Many songs censor the word "gun" for their radio version due to this truism. Of course, everything is subjective, but this concept should not be controversial.

If you're determined to continue splitting hairs and need me to look at a dictionary then I can refer you to Dictionary.com, where the meaning includes "characterised by an uncontrolled, strong, rough force"

Ayvah, after reading my recent reply to you, I feel that I need to add the following: It was never my intention to sound disrespectful. Please accept my apologies if I have offended you in any way!

This is just not true! Please refer to my earlier posts.

I guess a spoon is also "violent", because it can be used to gauge eyes. It is one of the spoon's function, after all.

Also, are you arguing that claws are "characterised by an uncontrolled, strong, rough force"?

I am done here, Ayvah. I see no point in continuing this discussion.

If that's the function you associate with a spoon then sure. That's exactly why it's subjective.

I have not taken any offense. Thank you for your consideration.

I love the way the lizards look. They're one of the first animal races in recent memory that don't simply look like a human with animal features (furry). They have a really unique body structure and posing that's both elegant and at the same time a little feral. TBH when I look at new fantasy titles these days I look at what sort of race lineup they have first. So many generic races on display or half assed attempts at something "unique". But I think Larian nailed it with this race and I look forward to playing them.

Uh... These lizards definitely fit the archetype of furry (or scalie, in this case).

No, what I'm talking about would be like the Argonians from Skyrim. Literally a human with a lizard head and tail attached to them. Complete with boobs for some reason. Or like the Worgen in WoW, again look like supermodels with a dog face plopped on them. If you're going to make an animal-like race at least go the extra step and give them a unique body structure. That's why I like the lizards in this game.

Honestly, the only issue I have with them is that long neck. It's just begging for someone to decapitate them. Otherwise, I have no problem with them.

They used to look somewhat different in Morrowind. I remember that guy in Solstheim (or maybe it was a khajiit, but the same applies) moaning about not being able to find any boots that fit.

But then Oblivion happened and they gave them human bodies with novelty heads and a tail.

What happened was cost cutting measures with some thinly veiled lore to excuse it. Nevermind the Khajiit and Argonians, remember how all the elves looked exactly the same (basically like wood elves?). That was a hell of a change after coming off of Morrowind and seeing the regal Altmer and brooding Dunmer suddenly looking like Santa's elves.

I Like the lizards, especially the cool colours that you can choose. I've got no issue with the long necks, but it would be nice if you could choose the height of the character in creation. My female lizard warrior towered over everyone, even the Red Prince.

I also liked the fact that other races didn't take to them as well as they did humans (though the fact that humans don't really like anything other than what looks like them is a pretty bleak (but honest) take on humans in general.)

I know it wasn't just for humans v humans, every race tended to stick to their preference for the same race. Like with reality, you get some NPC who are willing to look past the race issue whereas others are just bigots, though in some cases this is justified (i.e. the lizards being slavers and Elves being cannibals.)

The Lizards are my favorite looking race in the game so far. So colorful! I wish the game let me run an all-lizard party.

My only objection is that they are called..."lizards". So mundane. I wish they'd spruce that up a little and name them "Scalekin", or Saurians or something a little more interesting.

So, after the Elves we now have a Lizards hating topic? *sigh*

I guess that's why most modern games stick to boring old humans and extremely humanoid aliens (though I guess a Dwarven hate topic is next). I love the Lizards.

Opinions?
In my Internet?


Actually, I'm not a fan of the dwarves. I'm just liking the humans and lizards so far. Though the elves seem kind of cool mechanically.

I love the Lizards!



I do hate Dwarves as a fantasy trope though. At least they tried to make the Elves more interesting. The dwarves just seem to be bog standard. If they have Scottish accents when the game's voice work is added, I'm going to cry.

Hey, where's that Dwarven hate thread? I'd like to get in on that.

The Lizards have an incredibly novel design, how on earth would you want them more human? Why would you want a human face? On Lizard people?

I for one would instead like more faces like the first and the last one: Faces that have character and dont look like some random reptillian species.

And yeah dwarves are the only race here that deserves hate.
And even them arent so bad due to the females having amazing hairstyles.

[quote=vometia][quote=Cloudrunner] No, what I'm talking about would be like the Argonians from Skyrim. Literally a human with a lizard head and tail attached to them. Complete with boobs for some reason. Or like the Worgen in WoW, again look like supermodels with a dog face plopped on them. If you're going to make an animal-like race at least go the extra step and give them a unique body structure. That's why I like the lizards in this game. [/quote]
They used to look somewhat different in Morrowind. I remember that guy in Solstheim (or maybe it was a khajiit, but the same applies) moaning about not being able to find any boots that fit.

But then Oblivion happened and they gave them human bodies with novelty heads and a tail. [/quote]

Actually, Morrowind is the only exception where the Beast race (aka Argonians and Khajiit) had digitigrade legs and the female Argonians with no boobs (except for the wrong clothing meshes given which can be easily fixed via mods). While previous Elder Scrolls games (Arena and Daggerfall) had the beast race with human bodies and said novelty heads and tail. That said, you can say that Morrowind was the odd one here.

But not to stray from the subject. I honestly had my jaw drop when I saw the Lizards. They are just amazing, both male and female. And I am loving the gender dimorphism with the Lizards. I don't have a single complaint and I can't wait to dive deep into their lore soon!

The dwarves are... alright. But I did get surprised that they can use magic since in most games they don't, so that's a big plus!

And all the pretty colors!

This is now the Lizard Appreciation Thread.

Larian, I demand--DEMAND-- the ability to make an all-Lizard party. It is cruel and unusual to force me to play with the inferior races.

Indeed! Slaves should know their station and not be allowed as equals in the party. XD

I *am* curious what reason the Lore gives for Lizards not ruling this world. They're smarter than everyone else, they've got dragon breath, and a really interesting fashion sense.

How did my PC ever come to enslaved by such inferior creatures? It's inconceivable!