As a female gamer, I do get sick of the armours being skimpy for female characters (though not as rabidly as some do. Come one people, it's a game!) That was one of the things I loved about DOS. No matter what gender you had, the armour stayed the same, just with beaten out bits for the breasts.

So what happened?

No matter what armour you put on Sebelle it turns out skimpy. I haven't played the elves at all (mainly coz the bug eyed look they've got going kind creeps me out, but also because the lizards are just so freaking awesome) only adding Sebelle to the party.

On saying that, I am glad that Larian didn't go the original Morrowind rout and make it hard for characters with non-human feet to get boots (though, that in itself was a good idea/character flaw to have in my opinion.) but why does the armour for the elves have to be skimpy?

Saying that, I'm just going to hop back into the game to see if a male elf has the same issue with armour.

BRB!

Okay...

I take that back. Male elves have just as skimpy dress as the female ones do, so that's a gutsy move for Larian (and one I do approve of. Bring in more hunky Man meat!)

But that is still in issue that kind bugs me that the armour changes depending on the race and class.

It was a good thing in the first game that you couldn't wear warrior armour if you were a ranger or thief (Unless you juiced your strength score) I thought that inclusion was great and made you diversify your team more as you'd get an awesome armour but couldn't use it.

I'll wait for you to return with results, I guess

I agree, I don't really like the elves' armor either. Or their appearance in general. Not really sure how they'd fix it, though.

But that literally makes me a racist.

*Grins* Love it!

So who would that make you? Vladimir or Estragon?

That would make me both, since we're the only people in this thread!

....

point taken. Was so enthralled by your first post that I didn't realise the second one was you too. I apologise for my total lack of observation on that part.

*Stumbles over to the coffee machine*

Just going to hop in this thread. I love my supermodel naked man fighter. He can crack heads and cast spells, all while feelin' the breeze. Really lets me project onto my character like no other game can.

It would probably be a lot of extra work, but I think it would really sell the Elves atypical design if whenever they entered combat, their skin would fully turn into wood. It would make their 'armor' seem less like armor, and more of a catalyst for enhancing their natural defenses if that makes sense.

I must admit I'm a bit torn on the overall subject of the elves' appearance. Part of me would like them to look... well, more ordinary, but actually I take my hat off to Larian for trying to make them rather different and alien. So mixed feelings, really: I can't honestly say I'm 100% a fan of the design but I like that Larian has been so daring with it.

I just wish Elves kind of had the personality that would allow me to go "Ohh yeah! Elves would definately wear this armor"

I kinda feel that complaining about skimpy armour in a game is akin to walking up to a person painting naked people on an easel and start calling them sexist and telling them to paint clothes on them this instant. Larian's artistic design process is completely up to them. They should have the freedom (along with every other artist in every field ever) to design their works however they see fit. I mean i'm glad you aren't one of those people that are like HOW DARE THEY! THEY NEED TO CHANGE THIS IMMEDIATELY BECAUSE IT OFFENDS ME! CENSOR EVERYTHING! but still it grinds my gears a bit when people complain about the artists visions not aligning with their own.

I kinda feel that

1) You don't have a tight grasp on on the OP's position. The OP was chiefly concerned with the female version of the Elf race being singled out for skimpier wear, which I think is a completely reasonable concern. The OP was somewhat mollified when she learned that both sexes of that race display the same general attire.

2) I also kind of feel like you missed this somewhere along the way:



Take a look around. All anyone is doing is talking about things they wish would change, or that could make the game better in their opinion. I'm sorry that "grinds your gears".

Aye that is true about the OP's change in stance once she saw the males were represented accordingly sorry for not mentioning that further than i did.

As for the feedback is essential bit yes i have seen that before as iv'e been following this games development since the beginning but i think the time for complete aesthetic overhauls has been and gone this late in a development cycle. I recall seeing on the kickstarter forums for dos 2 a poll on stylized vs. realistic armour and the poll came out at about 50/50, slightly favouring the stylized viewpoint. So this topic has already been extensively discussed and thought over by the community and Larian team and what they decided on is apparent from the outcome of the games aethetics.

cheers.

Heh, I realize you'd like to shut discussion on this topic down for whatever reason, but I'll leave it to Larian to decide for themselves what they are or aren't willing to consider.

Secondly, the notion of "Stylized vs Realistic" armor is neither here nor there. Stylized does not mean "naked women". It would mean that they wear artistically stylized armor on their bodies granting as much coverage as their male counterparts.

Finally, I'm not saying this needs to happen this time around, but I remember the designs of the armor being adjusted late in the development for D:OS 1, of which I was also an early access supporter, due to similar concerns. So once again, I'd just go ahead and leave it to Larian to make their own decisions.

Nah i'm just throwing my marshmallows onto the fire not trying to shut anything down even though this debate has been beaten to death for quite some time now.

Yeah sorry stylized might have been a bit broad of a term, by that i mean the not so competent, flashy and sometimes skin bearing armour of classic fantasy, by extension the armour type OP was discussing. And it is never 'naked women'. Showing skin does not mean naked by any stretch of the imagination.

I think it is the best recourse to let Larian design and make their own decisions, that was what i intended my original post to say, but it must have been lost somewhere in translation.

Cheers

In realistic terms, any armor that doesn't actually protect the body by covering vulnerable areas leaves the wearer functionally naked. Why should male characters be the only ones that get to wear functional armor? Again, not saying that is the case here. But it is frequently the case.

In artistic terms, why should someone who chooses to play a female character endure a design sensibility that serves only heterosexual male titillation? As you can see from this thread, the game's audience is broader than that. My tastes are not universal.




Larian is going to make their own decisions regardless, both about the game, and about what feedback they find valuable. Best to leave them to it on both fronts.

functionally naked in terms of if the armour would be worn in real life yes it would be, but in a video game the little number after the bit that says 'armour rating' is the only thing that governs any sort of virtual protection. Now in this game we see 'functionally inadequate' armour being worn by both sexes, but game developers that choose to do this on one particular sex have absolutely no reason to be scolded for being sexist whatsoever.

"why should someone who chooses to play a female character endure a design sensibility that serves only heterosexual male titillation?"

This is incredibly untrue. Serves only hetero male titillation? Come on dude, this world is not a drab palette of black and white, it might be easier if it was, but it certainly isn't the case. If so every girl that ever wore any sort of clothing that shows off their sexuality even a little is just pandering to males, only wearing the clothes she does to draw the attention of boys. It should be a commonplace in society to let women not only wear what they want, but also to show as much skin as they want without being called out as just attention seeking. We desperately need to move past this idea of 'making women show skin is for a mans pleasure'.

My girlfriend loved the flashy armour design on the women in the 'original' original sin (hehe) when we played through it together and wouldn't change to certain armours in some cases because she didnt like how concealing it was. This is of course only one girls opinion but it shows that flashy armour definitely doesn't only cater to 'males'. Chicks can dig it too.

What someone prefers a character to be dressed like is irrelevant. I personally am someone who does prefer armour that covers all the importants and could be seen as armour that would work in real life, but if a developer doesn't want to go down that route i am not going to tell them they should be doing it my way.

Cheers

Did it ever occur to you that the video game industry that by now is larger than the effing movie industry takes form based on what people buy? Far from every game has skimpy outfits, so the market allows for people to vote with their wallet. But if something sells its going to be produced. You are not forced to like or buy what other people like or buy, but you are also not entitled to decide what other people get to have, just like I am not entitled to have certain movies show more boobs if I happen to like that in movies.

Its also interesting how you were outraged over skimpy female characters, untill you realized it was the same with the male characters and then suddenly you like it.
Do you not see the irony of wanting to deny people the very thing you immediately admit you liked when you realized it was there?

Anyway I really like the elves in DOS2. Ive seen sooo many generic fantasy elves in so many games. Its refreshing to see something new done with them.

aaaand another one of those annoying posts. Please go away.
Dont want to be half naked? Dont play an elf. Its not like you dont have any options.

And please stop the "Just because its stylized doesnt mean X"
Yes it does. The artist made it, the artist decides what it looks like.

I hear this argument about what is and what is not apropriate all the time from people that have never ever pursued any creative interrest.

this is a game that is heavily about style and flashyness.
Deal with it.

Again you got OPTIONS.

Also i find it hillarious that some of you are still going "but ONLY WOMEN" no look at the character models before you make nonsensical statements. Its elves and its only elves.

Its agravating how many of your ilk come out of the brushwork everytime an artist DARES to show the aesthetic of the human body.

As a professional designer and illustrator, I am aware of this. I am also aware of the need to know my client's target audience, and design for the broadest appeal. Certain design philosophies cater overwhelmingly to one segment of the audience over another, and it's not really that difficult to come up with striking designs that don't revolve around T&A.




Your opinion on these matters is all fine and good, but none of it really pertains to this thread. It doesn't matter that one person may or may not be bothered by it. It matters that a lot of people definitely are, and that the person who started this thread who has the same right to EA feedback as you do, was potentially bothered by it.




Precedent for this franchise, and the developer invitation to feedback from all EA participants, suggest you are mistaken.




You're a swell fellow for letting Larian make their own decisions, and I'm sure they appreciate it. However your preferences, like my own, are not universally representative of the entire game audience.

The fact is some people *are* going to express opinions on this subject, and the great thing is, there's nothing whatesoever you can do to stop it. Isn't that a great, liberating feeling? That that need you feel to try to shut down discussions you don't approve of is completely futile--a waste of energy better put into other endeavors?

This has been an enjoyable and insightful conversation but i feel it's coming to a close, mostly due to your rising hostilities and i have no intention of participating in a shitfight.

As I've previously said i'm not trying in any way to shut down any conversations (the bit where i said the stuff about marshmallows and fires), people can discuss whatever they like whenever they like. If anything we two have been fanning the flames of this conversation almost exclusively. Freedom of speech and all that jazz.

Anyways thanks for the responses, its been fun

For those new to the forum, you may be interested in reading a previous thread on the same topic.

No matter what happens, Larian can't please everyone with everything they do.
Which is precisely why they shouldn't try, especially on issues that are 'political' and not related to gameplay.

Original Sin suffered from it's attempts late in development to appease the 'That's <thing>-ist!' people.
There's a clear artistic vision for the elves, and every other race for that matter, and it should not be interfered with.

Solution: Rename Elves to Dryads.

That's what they look like, anyway.

That would genuinely be an improvement.

I'm sad they never look substantial. I at least want my heavy armor to look heavy and oaken or at least more than rags draping me and blowing around in imaginary winds.

Old topic necro. Just had to say Rube sounds like a prude. Some people aren't afraid of sexuality, usually because they possess it. Unfortunately because of prudes you can't show ANY skin or you are sexist. This argument can literally go on forever. Women like guys with abs (usually) and men like boobs and butts (usually, I like a toned midriff on my ladies.) Im not saying a chainmail bikini is practical (or tasteful for that matter) but if they wanna show it let them. I've seen it on both ends, overly muscular dudes and buxom ladies. The BEST option would be to give players more options on body selection and attire so we could all be happy, but that won't happen. (without the wonderful modding communities) The WORST thing you can do is cry because it doesn't match your tastes. Specially a minuscule issue as elves showing a little more skin. (It creates diversity in the style of the characters.) Seeing as how 90% of the armors in this game are tasteful and practical, I'm pretty sure there is something else going on that would cause you to QQ.

I only bring this up and necro this thread because BG3 is the polar opposite. I literally haven't seen any real style or diversity in the armor selection (I know it's EA, but the lack of style is clear). Everything looks like they took it out of LOTR. Hopefully modding tools will allow CREATIVE people to make what we want. You probably think Laezels armor is sexist too. YOU CAN SEE HER LEGS. Get over it. You wanna see the same bland crap on everyone with no sex appeal or style, go play Mount and Blade or something. The rest of us will enjoy every flavor the world has to offer.