Larian Studios
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The Undead also heal via poison and are poisoned by healing potions.


If this applies to healing magic and bless and not just potions... then this is a completely idiotic gameplay decision. It completely fucks up teamplay between living and undead party members, and it will force non-undead to tailor THEIR builds specifically to supporting the undead party member.

What a complete waste of a stretch goal.

Maybe if a mod comes out which replaces the godawful, worthless, actively harmful Zombie Talent with a non-idiotic, non-shitty one, then I might try it. Not before.
Dude later in the game poison become a much MUCH more effective way of healing, in OS1 I picked up zombie talent for all of the party and it was hilarious.

Not to mention all you need to create poison potions is empty bottles and an ooze barrel which I always had in my inventory.
If you cast healing potion in party for aoe it will not influence undeads and vice versa. So in human/undead parties you still can use aoe healing spells no problems
It was really simple to make a Talent for the Undead playable characters which did not fuck up teamplay. I even gave a suggestion for such months ago when this first came up.

Resilient Body: +5 permanent Physical armor per level.

The fact that they still went with the idea that fucks up teamplay in this CO-OP-FOCUSED GAME is ridiculous.


Originally Posted by Amrael
Dude later in the game poison become a much MUCH more effective way of healing, in OS1 I picked up zombie talent for all of the party and it was hilarious.

Not to mention all you need to create poison potions is empty bottles and an ooze barrel which I always had in my inventory.


Don't talk about how it worked in D:OS 1. This is not D:OS 1. D:OS 2 is different in many important ways, such as available skills and increased amounts of AoE skills (which includes FIRE). You do not get to use D:OS 1 gameplay to claim to be an authority on D:OS 2, never mind late-game D:OS 2.


Originally Posted by Zec
If you cast healing potion in party for aoe it will not influence undeads and vice versa. So in human/undead parties you still can use aoe healing spells no problems


Maybe, but it's still a big problem because it forces non-undeads to waste skill slots on abilities just to heal undead.
Hi stabbey
I agree with your sentiment
I never picked zombie talent.
If I want to role play an undead I have no choice
If u see undead use 2 first aid spells= dead

I was considering undead assasins. You can have corpse eater with Elvin undead. Interesting
It's bad, but it's not worth slinging insults like this. The talent has tis place, AoE heals don't seem to hit the undead party members, and poison is easy to come by.
It's honestly not as bad as you're making it out to be. The dev team are simply following the rules of D&D-styled undead with this one, and it's obvious that a lot of Div's systems pay homage to D&D, so I can't see how this really surprises anyone. It's not going to end mixed party play between the living and undead, it just means that you'll need to use different tactics to keep each of your party members 'alive' which adds a whole new layer of depth to gameplay which I find amusing and interesting.

Undead have a lot of perks that the living don't have. I think it balances things out quite a bit that they're harmed by divine or 'positive-energy' healing magic. In my opinion, if this system poses a barrier for you, and you can't adapt to a game's ruleset, then simply mod it out and play how you want to play. That's what I'm doing with racial stat bonuses if I'm able.
It makes the race more unique and interesting, and gameplay more varied.
If you don't want it, just pick a different race.
Totally agreed, (Was going to make a thread about it once i got home, but here we are).

it's terrible. Not just for party composition, but against enemies as well. ALMOST all enemies I encountered in act 1 had some healing abilities available, first aid, regen and etc. And it's not like "oh dont get close to them" no, they are long range abilities. So guess what, with this "AI 2.0" they are just going to one shot you by using healing abilities. Armor won't protect, and please dont bother saying "well at least no healing on their team"...yeah good job, one of your guys are dead, enemies outnumbered you to begin with, and they have more armor then you.

I think the zombie talent should be on and off with the mask. Like in combat you can take it off or put it on for like 2 AP, yeah it could make them OP (hence why i said 2 AP and not 1), so they could limit it to once per combat or something. But yeah, for now, Undead is gonna get fk'd over by the enemies bc it will just be focused and healed to death in turn 1.

How was this not brought up in the inhouse beta they have going on is....just...unbelievable. Or was it and they were like "well this will just make it difficult, so play it for second playthrough". That makes it worse, making it so a race and a origin story should be played 2nd if u wanna do better? Or was there something else? Honestly I don't know why they are keeping it like this.

Also if you're gonna say "just pick a different race if u dont like it"...how about you go f yourself instead? This is a RPG game, and a race plays a HUGE role in gameplay and storywise. Telling someone to just go "well dont just play this race" is a middlefinger. This stuff needs to be balanced, the undead is underpowered to hell bc of constant zombie. Yes, late game it could be OP, but you need to play early and mid before you get to late.
I think the undead is meant to be almost a completely different play experience.

The negative healing only makes sense because you're well, undead.

You should expect having to overcome some obstacles when running around with an undead party member.

Really not seeing any peoblems with it. Though I want to mod the mask to steal any face and be like the faceless men.
It is most likely that you lose undead talents when you put mask for other race on and gain skills of that race. Also on healing spells enemies have all spells we have and I did not seen them with heals to one shot themselves to max health. And if you dont wanna play like that, pick other race the whole idea of RPG is that all players be unique do you want that humans also get healed by eating corpses? They seem perfectly balanced also aoe healing spells does not influence undeads in party, healing goes normally
I dont see why you make that big fuss around something that is just not a problem at all.
I believe you actually don't gain or lose any abilities with the mask and that it only impacts social interactions.

Edit. Watched the video again and the racial ability changes so mayne healing does too. I dont understand an appearance changing abilities.
While the talent totally makes sense in terms of consistency, it definitely is a big gameplay issue to work around. A simple way to balance it would be reduce the multiplier of damage to healing (like you take 50% of healing on you as damage rather than 100%). Also if skills like contamination automatically target undead allies while ignoring living ones, it will be less of a pain.

A really cool set of undead-only talents would be ones to switch the damage type that heals you from poison to water, air, or fire. Preferably it could be something you could choose at character creation. This would enable a lot more playstyles with undead rather than basically mandating at least one character with geomancer.

And don't worry, it should be easy to mod out.
Originally Posted by WMC51
I believe you actually don't gain or lose any abilities with the mask and that it only impacts social interactions.
Swen mentioned in the stream something in style "if you wanna eat your opponents" or something like that. But I guess that would mean that you get at least some skills of enemies in who you changed face.
rpg006
I didn't play zombie enough to remember? Does magic armor.block the healing damage? If it doesnt that would be my only real issue with it.

Baard can make os some elemental races. Immune to one element but rake double damage from the opposite and heal for half the damage that would have been dealt.
Originally Posted by WMC51
I didn't play zombie enough to remember? Does magic armor.block the healing damage? If it doesnt that would be my only real issue with it.

Baard can make os some elemental races. Immune to one element but rake double damage from the opposite and heal for half the damage that would have been dealt.

If I recall correctly targets being affected by Decay (healing skills deal 175% damage instead of healing) are damaged despite having magic armour. I assume it's the same case for undeads and healing.
Originally Posted by WMC51
I believe you actually don't gain or lose any abilities with the mask and that it only impacts social interactions.

Edit. Watched the video again and the racial ability changes so mayne healing does too. I dont understand an appearance changing abilities.


Yep. Sven said it changes talents and abilities. I guess since the mask is powered by source, you aren't changing just your appearance, but shapeshifting in a more profound sense. (Think D&D where druid's elemental shapeshift grants more magical abilities).

I am curious if it removes the undead talent (and thus healing damage) when you are in a different form. I seem to recall they had said that the mask doesn't work in combat, but that was a long time ago and may have changed.
That is what I would take issue with. Not that this happens but that it should be 1:1 damage and blocked by magic armor like any other damage spell.

I wouls prefer a mod that did that instead of remove the talent.
What I don't understand is, can undead still cast these healing spells? Is there any effect on them for weaving these magics and conjuring healing spells? Would, say, a fallen paladin build still be viable? Could a Divinity lore-hound help me out with this one? I'm interested about the mechanical reasons, as well as the lore reasons as to why an undead would be able to do this. I'm not so much against undead playing these roles, but I'm more or less just curious; it would seem that if they can conjure these spells, they might have at least some innate resistance to the magic.
If I got all right healing spells and buffs (like bless) the ones that help living damage undeads and vice versa. They mentioned that even eating food can damage them. Basically you should look on all spells for 180 degrees. Like poison cloud that damages living, heals undead and all like that. I am not sure that they mentioned any buffs that make them more powerful.
Only trait on undead I noticed was his racial skill "play dead" where basically he just drops dead and fakes that he is like dead and enemies leave them alone.
Originally Posted by Lich
It's honestly not as bad as you're making it out to be. The dev team are simply following the rules of D&D-styled undead with this one, and it's obvious that a lot of Div's systems pay homage to D&D, so I can't see how this really surprises anyone.


This isn't Dungeons and Dragons. Undead are not always evil or powered by evil spirits/negative energy. There have been plenty of examples of neutral and friendly undead. It doesn't HAVE to use this convention. This series didn't use that convention until D:OS 1.

In fact this game doesn't even follow its own conventions. You are a skeleton-type undead, not a zombie-type undead. Skeletons shouldn't have the Zombie talent at all (they didn't in D:OS 1 at least).


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It's not going to end mixed party play between the living and undead, it just means that you'll need to use different tactics to keep each of your party members 'alive' which adds a whole new layer of depth to gameplay which I find amusing and interesting.


The game is specifically intended to be challenging enough to keep an all-living-party up and going. I'm not a fan of needing to balance my team specifically around keeping an Undead member alive. I need to sacrifice ability points and skill slots of living party members to give them poison skills to heal the zombie. That is an unnecessary and obnoxious burden.

Forcing Reverse Healing on an entire race is a terrible, terrible, design decision, and it completely shuts out an entire race from 90% of all possible healing sources. I sure didn't see much in the way of poison spells the last time I played.

If people want to take the shitty Zombie Talent as a challenge, their own CHOICE, that's fine. But forcing the shitty Zombie Talent on an entire race is a crap decision. I tried telling Larian not to do this months ago.

In the alpha there were several fights which ended with automatically generated Blessed surfaces underneath. The only waypoint on the east side of the island is in a blessed pool in the Seekers hideout.


Originally Posted by RandomTobias
It makes the race more unique and interesting, and gameplay more varied.
If you don't want it, just pick a different race.


What a completely worthless comment. No duh I'll be picking a different race. I already said I would be. My point is that is that the reason I will be picking different races and never the Undead is because of an Incredibly Poor Design Decision which was completely unnecessary and has a negative impact on gameplay.
Just pair undead with necro.. use necromancy to gain life from doing damage and sustain yourself on that and poison not to mention there is a special artifact that converts healing potions into poison potions for undead and that undead have abilities other races do not (unlimited lockpicking/walking thru the deathfog or whatever)

there is no other way past the deathfog other than being undead... so if you dont have an undead with you things will be locked away from you behind this fog...

but there are plenty of ways for undead to sustain themselves if you use the right skills.
Deathfog is actually a great example of good balancing undead I mean it kills any living being but heals undeads I think that op just wants same values and buffs for all races and just visual differences. Like skeletons look "boney" elves have "pointy" ears, dwarfs have beards and so on.
I dont get it what op wants the undead have solid + for every - they get.
They seem quite solid race to me, only thing that might bother new players is how people would react on udeads but that is up to player to resolve.
Being able to only heal from poison is a valid drawback to the undead race! They do not need lockpicks, they can pretend to be any of the races once they get the mask and are immune to death fog.

If they did not have this drawback of healing only through poison there would be no reason to play as anything BUT undead.
Originally Posted by Stabbey
This isn't Dungeons and Dragons. Undead are not always evil or powered by evil spirits/negative energy. There have been plenty of examples of neutral and friendly undead. It doesn't HAVE to use this convention. This series didn't use that convention until D:OS 1.

In fact this game doesn't even follow its own conventions. You are a skeleton-type undead, not a zombie-type undead. Skeletons shouldn't have the Zombie talent at all (they didn't in D:OS 1 at least).


You're correct. The Divinity series *isn't* D&D, but it sure borrows a lot from it in use in the game's design. Games like Final Fantasy did as well, a JRPG that also has a system where holy magic such as curative spells have negative effects on undead; you see this used time and time again not only traditional CRPG's, but also JRPG's. They even emulate these tabletop mechanics it in their very own "GM mode" by allowing for dice, vignettes and traditional P&P storytelling and game-play, so you shouldn't deny the fact that they've taken more than a few ideas and built parts of their game in homage to these systems; it's no sin to borrow from other source material as long as you make it your own, which I feel they have.

What is boils down to is the lore of the game. If the team, and loremasters at Larian Studios believe that undead should be harmed by 'positive energy' or whatever these spells are considered, then that's how it's going to be, since it fits into their lore. Yes, this may make the game a bit more difficult, but in a number of situations, it makes it easier if you look at the perks that undead *do* have. They even give a warning that it'll make the game more challenging before you play an undead character.

Does it suck for people who wanted a more traditional character race that they could play alongside their friends, and benefit from the same boons that the rest of the party has? For sure. Does it make them any less fun? That's subjective. With that said, it by no way limits you from playing with other races in the same party. Yes, it may be difficult in some places, but we play games to be challenged in most cases, don't we? Isn't that what makes them fun?
They can also heal thru necromancy... necromancy and poison can both heal undead so its not nearly as bad as he makes it out to be.. they have a ton in their favor if they didnt have this downside there would be no reason not to play them.
They dont need mask to get immune to death fog, they are immune on it from the start. The game itself is NOT in shape most common RPG`s and that is prolly what confuses most people. Lots of people adapted only one shape of creatures for RPG`s "orcs are stupid and undeads are evil, elfs are good, dwarfs have beard, humans are good or poor with one who is main bad guy"
They just cant accept different shapes of different RPG universes with different rules.
No one said they needed the mask to be immune to death fog... and the undead are more "evil" in this game... they have to make the mask by murdering people for their faces... and the origin character was the one who made this process for making the mask and killed the person who woke him... hardly seems nice to me.
Hi All

As always interesting discussion.

I agree with Adrianna, Undead as presented have an 'evil' vibe. But hey I enjoy playing rogues/ assassins!

From a play balance viewpoint.. many fights include using bless to create healing surfaces.. so this will directly harm your undead character (ignoring magical armour)?
Was there thought to allow magic armour to prevent this? (i.e. with MA you don't heal in poison but don't get damaged by healing surfaces etc).
With regards to bless, I suspect they have something sorted as that would be an obvious thing coming up in a play test. It should be noted they have already stated that not all healing damages the undead. They can heal from both poison and necromancy. I would expect blessed surfaces to simply have no effect at all on the undead (from a balance perspective it would be terrible it if damaged and from a lore perspective it would be inconsistent if it still healed).

But hey, if Larian hasn't thought about this yet then I expect a quick patch as everyone playing the undead dies instantly when they get to the first automatic appearance of the blessed surfaces :p

The undead don't have the "zombie" talent in that all healing damages them, it is just "good" healing that does.
Undead are presented as "evil" in almost every RPG game I played (not to mention games like L4D2) I think that only time when I had "normal" undead was when I played mine undeads in WoW. Plus I do not see em as that evil at all, I think that only one who has tag as villain of origin characters is that human Ifn-Abn-Metz (I prolly typed it wrong)
While Fane was one who made original masks you still make your own mask. Plus only thing that we know of undead story at this moment is "he is (Fane) entombed alive, layed there about 3000 years later in totally different world and world has totally changed for him"
We dunno entire story, but from my opinion I am getting tired of almost every RPGs showing orcs, undeads, trolls and other monsters as bad guys, and showing humans, elves, dwarfs, plumbers and hedgehogs as heroes.
I wanna play as noble paladin undead or as wicked cloaked shadowblade dwarf...... (ok ok dwarfs are sometimes seen as rouges but o well :p )
I don't see why an undead has to be considered innately evil; there's no reason why you can't play a good-natured undead, regardless as to how you were "reborn". That said, depending on how they were brought back, which I'd assume is through necromancy and dark magic, they'd still have a natural aversion to positive magic, depending on how the lore works in this game. You really have to ask yourself how these undead came to be. Are they cursed? Are they raised by necromantic energies? It's obvious that divine and clerical energies harm them, so in some way it must unravel or disperse what holds them together, which I'd assume is simply negative energy of some sort.

Look at White Wolf games, where vampires can choose to drink blood from animals like rats, or even from blood bags, rather than humans in attempt to maintain their morality and humanity, rather than becoming true monsters. These vampires might be looked down upon for these actions by the rest of their kind, but in essence they're still trying to make the best of a poor situation and by proxy I feel are 'good' characters, even if they're technically monsters, and would be regarded as such by everyone else.

I feel that the undead in this game, and many others, have the same problem. Vampires in VtM can still be harmed by sunlight. Just because a vampire tries to live to the best of their ability in attempt to maintain their humanity, doesn't mean that they're not held to the same rules and regulations as the other vampires. This, I feel, is the same thing players have to understand about undead here. That said, it seems like undead in this can still cast curative magic and bless spells, which adds a whole new layer to the puzzle as to just how these characters really work from both a lore and mechanical standpoint.
no.

it like the idea, b/c it makes sense, its lore friendly, it adds a kind of realism if you like, i even find it kinda innovative, it makes gameplay more varied, offers more/additional options etc. etc. etc.

oc, it makes the game more challenging, but:
good ideas, that offer value added, more varied gameplay >>> more challanging game mechanics ALWAYS

if you dont like a challange, play on easy mode.
I'm just going to have to see how the undead work out at release. It sort of sounds like people who play undead, are going to have to work harder to be viable. As for the whole "evil" vibe thing, that really depends on the type of undead they are. In Divinity's lore, I believe there are three kinds of dead. The mindless zombie kind, the bound kind, and then there are the "chosen". As far as I understand it, the chosen are their own civilization, and are just as capable of reasoning as the living, and are also able to breed; they are an actual UNDEAD race. In fact, I think we meet a chosen in EA. The bound are whatever, they are normally evil, because they are bound by necromatic magic to be slaves, for good or for ill. The mindless zombies are not good or evil, because they are just mindless monsters. I imagine the chosen will have both good and bad. So, i don't agree that undead have a "evil" vibe in Divinity.
Originally Posted by Stabbey


Originally Posted by RandomTobias
It makes the race more unique and interesting, and gameplay more varied.
If you don't want it, just pick a different race.


What a completely worthless comment. No duh I'll be picking a different race. I already said I would be. My point is that is that the reason I will be picking different races and never the Undead is because of an Incredibly Poor Design Decision which was completely unnecessary and has a negative impact on gameplay.


Indeed, what a completely worthless comment (Stabbey's that is).
Originally Posted by cool-dude01
I'm just going to have to see how the undead work out at release. It sort of sounds like people who play undead, are going to have to work harder to be viable. As for the whole "evil" vibe thing, that really depends on the type of undead they are. In Divinity's lore, I believe there are three kinds of dead. The mindless zombie kind, the bound kind, and then there are the "chosen". As far as I understand it, the chosen are their own civilization, and are just as capable of reasoning as the living, and are also able to breed; they are an actual UNDEAD race. In fact, I think we meet a chosen in EA. The bound are whatever, they are normally evil, because they are bound by necromatic magic to be slaves, for good or for ill. The mindless zombies are not good or evil, because they are just mindless monsters. I imagine the chosen will have both good and bad. So, i don't agree that undead have a "evil" vibe in Divinity.


I would call skinning peoples faces off to steal their identities and devouring the life essence of people as evil actions... but i guess you somehow see that as good or something...
It's evil, no question. But isn't it also kind of evil to steal source from people, dead or not? Most undeads I faced were evil, because they tried to kill me, and that's enough to make them evil for me. Lord Withermore however, whom I consider undead, was a nice guy.

To the healing problem: I think it's an interesting variation. I do not believe that it will make the game unplayable with an undead in the party, perhaps only more difficult. And different. And that's what different races are for in my opinion.

There is a bigger problem: undeads are ugly. Buuuh. So like dwarfs and lizards they are out of my party. Which is a pity, the gameplay sounds interesting with them. hahaha
Every society has their view of what evil is and considering that undeads in game are considered as different society then it is normal that they will have different views on world around them. Not to mention that they are not seen well from rest of the society, on the stream when Swen revealed that he is undead to the first character (undead started in totally bandaged like coat-hood.. ) the guy attacked him, first character he meets in game. And also when he was starting game with undead there popped warning like window that said "are you sure wanna play with undead if this is first time playing we advise to play with some other char" (something like that)
But in general we all are just guessing on lore and how undead are played. Larian said that there would not be patches until release, so no undeads before release aargh ) but in general we can play undead how we want, we can play them as noble paladins or dark knights or as evil assassins or shadowblades (I go for shadowblades rpg006 )
Hey guys dont take it so seriously, just keep a throwing knife rogue in party and everything will be fine :D

Joking apart, making the perma-zombie talent on undead class it's a tough decision, i understand the doubts, but we dont know enough to judge it yet. Maybe it will too unbalanced, and in this case i have no doubt that something will come up to fix it, but i think they're testing the game and figuring out what works and what does not.
My main concern is enemy's healing, it's virtually too easy to overkill an undead character with healing spam, but it's possible that the mask will prevent this behaviour, tricking enemies into thinking you are a living creature.
It's too soon to judge, we'll see.
I understand your point, but to their civilization, it might not be "evil". One could say the lizards are evil, because they view anybody who isn't a lizard as a lesser being, and as one who should either be a slave or a servant of some kind.
Anyone arguing that the feature which is essentially the 'Zombie' talent is detrimental to the character is just dumb. It's really powerful. Anyone who played OS 1 enough knows this. Getting it for free is really powerful.

Will there be some downside? Yes, that's the point. The whole point of the Zombie talent and now the undead race is that it changes the gameplay dynamic a bit. It gets less simple, but if played properly, it can be more powerful. If you don't want the Zombie talent, you don't skill into it. If you don't want to play undead, you don't play undead.

Why is this a topic worth crying about? You have the complete freedom to play however you choose to.
Originally Posted by YOGZULA
Anyone arguing that the feature which is essentially the 'Zombie' talent is detrimental to the character is just dumb. It's really powerful. Anyone who played OS 1 enough knows this. Getting it for free is really powerful.

Will there be some downside? Yes, that's the point. The whole point of the Zombie talent and now the undead race is that it changes the gameplay dynamic a bit. It gets less simple, but if played properly, it can be more powerful. If you don't want the Zombie talent, you don't skill into it. If you don't want to play undead, you don't play undead.

Why is this a topic worth crying about? You have the complete freedom to play however you choose to.


Eh some people like to nit pick. This is obviously something that will probably be modded and to begin with it's not a big deal. Not enough to justify the insults and arrogance OP came in swaggering with, anyway. Great, he's not playing undead because of nit picking. Who cares?

My two brothers are debating between it or not. I'm picking up either aethurage or geomancy as my second skill depending on their choice; either way I'll be able to support them/heal them and still do damage/disable.

Even if only one of them goes undead we're not novice rpg games; he will modify his build to account for less healing or we'll keep a healthy stock of poison potions/grenades around.

Half the fun is making your group work against whatever the game challenges you with unless you're a diehard group of min/maxers.
you could also just put points into necromancy on the undead characters to heal from any damage they do and leech blood.. another solution to their lack of healing.
I played the EA on classic for 100 hours, I barely used healing at all.
The only thing that could make it a disadvantage is if the AI is smart enough to exploit it, and even then, it's probably not nearly as bad as the disadvantage of Glass Cannon, which is still considered one of the must have talents.
If glass cannon is perceived by the devs as a 'must have' did they nerf that as well?
That was often used in the super maximise ap strategies seen online.
When you read me defending something this Stabbey lad said, you know there’s something wrong. Hell has just frozen over beneath us, basically.

But yeah, he’s right. Zombie is the most risible ‘racial trait’ of the lot – comic, only because it seems like such a blatantly rushed idea.

‘We’re running out of time. What do we give the undead? Well, the only one we actually thought about properly so far was the elf. The rest just got a few bits and pieces from the last game. Didn’t see too many complaints – they’re all distracted by the armour thing anyway. Maybe we just give this guy zombie?’

And boom: undead get zombie.

Ok, I have to admit that none of this surprises me. Divinity Original Sin is such a mixed bag of brilliance and bonkers that it would be kind of jarring for every idea to make sense. The roughness gives it character.

But it really does seem a shame that the undead get something so lazy as zombie as a main trait. The Fane character appears to be one of the more interesting of the lot, but I’ll be skipping him now for sure.

However, I do think there’ll be a tonne of rushed ideas in the release that are far worse than the undead getting zombie. And that it’ll be another year from now before we see the game we were supposed to get. That’s ok though. This will still be the best game released in a long long time, and they deserve their payday.

Patches are for free. And I’ll put money down on zombie not being an undead thing a year from now…
Originally Posted by smokey
When you read me defending something this Stabbey lad said, you know there’s something wrong. Hell has just frozen over beneath us, basically.

But yeah, he’s right. Zombie is the most risible ‘racial trait’ of the lot – comic, only because it seems like such a blatantly rushed idea.

‘We’re running out of time. What do we give the undead? Well, the only one we actually thought about properly so far was the elf. The rest just got a few bits and pieces from the last game. Didn’t see too many complaints – they’re all distracted by the armour thing anyway. Maybe we just give this guy zombie?’

And boom: undead get zombie.

Ok, I have to admit that none of this surprises me. Divinity Original Sin is such a mixed bag of brilliance and bonkers that it would be kind of jarring for every idea to make sense. The roughness gives it character.

But it really does seem a shame that the undead get something so lazy as zombie as a main trait. The Fane character appears to be one of the more interesting of the lot, but I’ll be skipping him now for sure.

However, I do think there’ll be a tonne of rushed ideas in the release that are far worse than the undead getting zombie. And that it’ll be another year from now before we see the game we were supposed to get. That’s ok though. This will still be the best game released in a long long time, and they deserve their payday.

Patches are for free. And I’ll put money down on zombie not being an undead thing a year from now…


The narrative of a slapdash and rush approach seems really skewed.

Here is my Alternative Take: We have thought long and hard about how Zombie works as a talent. We've seen it add power and challenge to campaigns. All undead characters whether "zombies" or "skeletons" in D:0S series have healed from poison and taken damage from healing effects. The player base has requested an "undead" character, let's give them an "undead" character that fits with the long established lore and balance of the Original Sin game series.
Think people are over reacting to this @_@. In tons of RPG games undead have been damaged by life giving abilities and immune or healed by poisons / dark damage. I also don't think it will be as horrible as people make it out to be. Then again I love the odd party make ups you can do in Divinity ♥
Originally Posted by Ellary
Think people are over reacting to this @_@. In tons of RPG games undead have been damaged by life giving abilities and immune or healed by poisons / dark damage. I also don't think it will be as horrible as people make it out to be. Then again I love the odd party make ups you can do in Divinity ♥


I agree and I actually love that disparity with good/bad energy.

Now for the other complains I just don't even reply, I am sometimes pretty adamant on certain topics but this one I don't even feel like participating in the debate.
I don't have a problems with undead, I probably won't play one at my first playthrough but I will play a Dead Knight to honor my name at some point.
And yeah, it's stupid ass idea, isn't it?

Hold up now before you draw your little gun - that's just my opinion. Don't get bothered by it - who am I after all? I'm entitled to my opinion, just as y'all are entitled to yours. Did I ever say you were wrong?

No. I said I think it's a stupid ass idea. Doesn't translate into 'my opinion is correct and yours is thick as pig shit'.

I'll always think it's a stupid idea though. But if you're so confident you're right that I'm wrong, you shouldn't feel the need to 'educate' me so specifically - this is a forum. As I see it, you read other people's comments, and if you're all about contributing constructively, then you just leave your opinion/counter-opinion without making inflammatory remarks such as 'The narrative of a slapdash and rush approach seems really skewed'.

I could be a dick as well and say your following alternative 'example' is the most slavering, bland, banal, suck-up horseshit I've read in a long old time, but it's not good form, is it?

I don't comment on these forums to turn your game world upside down, or tell you your opinions are moronic. That's why every comment I make is as general and detached as possible. Don't pick a fight with me - it's not worth it.

Just leave a counter opinion, you're logic for it, and that's healthy, intelligent debate, right?
The undead racial trait isnt just zombie you know... it also has the added benefit of making them immune to bleed... and besides the undead can make poison healing potions and can heal with necromancy... so its a minor inconvenience.. but the undead race add soo much that if they didnt have this slight weakness theyd be more OP than elves.
Originally Posted by Adrianna
The undead racial trait isnt just zombie you know... it also has the added benefit of making them immune to bleed... and besides the undead can make poison healing potions and can heal with necromancy... so its a minor inconvenience.. but the undead race add soo much that if they didnt have this slight weakness theyd be more OP than elves.


^ and they can also walk through death fog, which is HUGE to me
As long as the AI never uses restoration on you.
Assuming that the majority of enemies have healing spells in 2017 -- I'm offended.
It is funny how everyone forget on one of undeads best racial skills "play dead" in fact I think that is only racial skill from the undead that we are 100% sure (not counting damaged by healing potions and food and not needing lockpick and immunity to death fog)
But the fact is that people over react on this wayyyy to much. We will see how it goes in game and this is one of rare companies that I am pretty certain that they would patch their game if there are problems.
Btw where they said that undeads have "zombie" skill? Only discussions I remember about zombies was purely visual thing.
Originally Posted by Zec
It is funny how everyone forget on one of undeads best racial skills "play dead" in fact I think that is only racial skill from the undead that we are 100% sure (not counting damaged by healing potions and food and not needing lockpick and immunity to death fog)
But the fact is that people over react on this wayyyy to much. We will see how it goes in game and this is one of rare companies that I am pretty certain that they would patch their game if there are problems.
Btw where they said that undeads have "zombie" skill? Only discussions I remember about zombies was purely visual thing.


the zombie trait is the one that makes you take damage from healing and heal from poison and was always in the game... which is now forced on undead as a baseline trait...

but you also forgot the part where undead are immune to bleeding as well.
Originally Posted by Adrianna
the zombie trait is the one that makes you take damage from healing and heal from poison and was always in the game... which is now forced on undead as a baseline trait...

but you also forgot the part where undead are immune to bleeding as well.


Ah so that all grouped up is actually called "zombie trait" o well my mistake silence
PS but there is nooooo way zero logic to make skeletons bleed.... I mean how on earth to do that maybe extra soft on maces but skeleton and bleed??? from where???
Originally Posted by Zec
Ah so that all grouped up is actually called "zombie trait"
PS but there is nooooo way zero logic to make skeletons bleed.... I mean how on earth to do that maybe extra soft on maces but skeleton and bleed??? from where???


They are immune to bleeding effect as shown in the last stream Larian did.

Basically they have Zombie + Immune to Bleeding.
That is what I say I mean there is no logic to made em influenced by bleed, I mean from where would they supposed to bleed???
The biggest thing with the undead is that they are immune to deathfog (an otherwise impassable obstacle as no living creature can pass it)
Pros:

- Heal from Poison
- Immune to Death Fog
- Immune to Bleeding
- Free Lockpicks
- Custom Origin Undead -- Elf/Dwarf/Human/Lizard Undead
- Mask that shapeshifts into other races

...and probably the most broken thing of all (still being balanced, and I bet there will still be ways to break the game on release with this skill)

- Play Dead

Cons:

- You have to hide your face (man, that's hard /s)
- You take damage from Healing Spells (you mean, IF the enemy has a healing spell they would instead use it on me instead of potentially themselves? LOL, okay)

_________

Uh, ya, I'll take undead.
Actually free lockpick doesn't even count. You can have 100+ lock pick from the first act alone.

For the rest ? Yeah seems very potent and to be fair some of the easier build in DOS1 was a zombie party.
So it's possible it will be the same again but that doesn't really concerns me.

For the healing, the heals are very strong and pass through the magic armor. A proficient healer might be able to kill you fairly fast. I actually do heal undead as I play.
I'd wager that the most common enemy to have healing spells will be Magisters -- or just humans in general. However, there are many other types of enemies out there beasts, undead, voidlings, etc. Hell, even among humanoids -- not all of them are carry healing spells (Warrior and Rogue archetypes).

Also, the enemy that has healing spells (the healer -- the most lethal) would have to take an aggressive positioning and spend their healing resources on you undead characters. The fact that healing spells bypass magical armor is not a total loss. Why? -- because you still have your magical armor! So unless they one shot your ass or spend many of their healing resources on you -- combat will still be normal.

*By the way, the lockpicks thing -- dude, I get it, I know! A bonus is a bonus though. Save those nails for some snow boots or something lol.
I am not debating the undead seems to be very strong, what I say however is you can die very easily if they have heals.

And not only healers can have heals, they can have scrolls and archers do have first aid, and some skills bypass armors (Sawtooth knife) and maybe some other skills bypass magic armor in the full release ?
In the end, Undead is a pick that requires some risk/benefit analysis -- but I think it's totally worth it. If Undead didn't have the drawback of Zombie then they would be totally bonkers.
While I agree that lockpicks in general are kind of "meh" rolleyes bonus, I agree that it is still bonus. (I myself had more then 100+ before end act 1 with my rouge)
But still spells like "healing scrolls" and similar while they might be powerful on first view, they are scrolls one use only, In general while I do like undeads but they do seem to have a bit too much bonus with getting bonuses off other races.
I mean all other races have their drawbacks but dont get other races buggs. Undeads get other races buffs but dont have drawbacks I mean it is hard seeing that player is undead unless he walks around totally nude without any armor. And I doubt any player walks around without armor. There needs to be more balancing on undeads cause they seem too strong.
.....hmmmm undead Konan the skeleton rpg003
Actually no race has drawback but the undead.
Other races just have different bonuses but none has a disadvantage.
Originally Posted by Lich
It's honestly not as bad as you're making it out to be. The dev team are simply following the rules of D&D-styled undead with this one, and it's obvious that a lot of Div's systems pay homage to D&D, so I can't see how this really surprises anyone. It's not going to end mixed party play between the living and undead, it just means that you'll need to use different tactics to keep each of your party members 'alive' which adds a whole new layer of depth to gameplay which I find amusing and interesting.

Undead have a lot of perks that the living don't have. I think it balances things out quite a bit that they're harmed by divine or 'positive-energy' healing magic. In my opinion, if this system poses a barrier for you, and you can't adapt to a game's ruleset, then simply mod it out and play how you want to play. That's what I'm doing with racial stat bonuses if I'm able.


But there are no negative energy spells to use for healing, alas.
Originally Posted by Dark_Ansem
Originally Posted by Lich
It's honestly not as bad as you're making it out to be. The dev team are simply following the rules of D&D-styled undead with this one, and it's obvious that a lot of Div's systems pay homage to D&D, so I can't see how this really surprises anyone. It's not going to end mixed party play between the living and undead, it just means that you'll need to use different tactics to keep each of your party members 'alive' which adds a whole new layer of depth to gameplay which I find amusing and interesting.

Undead have a lot of perks that the living don't have. I think it balances things out quite a bit that they're harmed by divine or 'positive-energy' healing magic. In my opinion, if this system poses a barrier for you, and you can't adapt to a game's ruleset, then simply mod it out and play how you want to play. That's what I'm doing with racial stat bonuses if I'm able.


But there are no negative energy spells to use for healing, alas.


isnt that exactly what necromancy is though? dark healing thru lifesteal and blood stealing. which works with undead btw
Originally Posted by Adrianna
isnt that exactly what necromancy is though? dark healing thru lifesteal and blood stealing. which works with undead btw


I think that necromancy itself is considered only as dark magic to raise dead and mess with ghosts. But dark healing and blood stealing I think that is more related towards warlock spells and magic, but then again I think that all of them are generally called either witchcraft or demonology.
Originally Posted by Zec
Originally Posted by Adrianna
isnt that exactly what necromancy is though? dark healing thru lifesteal and blood stealing. which works with undead btw


I think that necromancy itself is considered only as dark magic to raise dead and mess with ghosts. But dark healing and blood stealing I think that is more related towards warlock spells and magic, but then again I think that all of them are generally called either witchcraft or demonology.


i was talking as what the game calls it... since he said that there was no negative magic healing or something... which is wrong.
Originally Posted by Adrianna
i was talking as what the game calls it... since he said that there was no negative magic healing or something... which is wrong.


I agree with you I just think he says there is no Dark Energy damage type like we could see in DnD or Neverwinter Nights games.

So unless they add other damage type in DOS2 like they did with Tenebrium in the first game. No you don't have a specific dark magic damage type nor you have a Light Magic type.

It is just their specialization that makes the difference.
Originally Posted by Zec
That is what I say I mean there is no logic to made em influenced by bleed, I mean from where would they supposed to bleed???


Technically speaking, it's a fantasy world so they can do whatever they want. For instance, all you'd have to do (simple showcase) is write lore that, like vampires, undead are sustained by blood or life, maybe they have grotesque sacs attached to them and they go collect blood, ect, ect. Obviously that would go against current lore but you could also argue a new breed of undead with story context, blah blah blah. My point is that anything possible and the only real consideration is allowing it to make internal sense via good writing.

Also, blood is made in bone marrow. Irreverent, but wanted to point that out.
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