Larian Studios
Posted By: ociebieda companions - 09/09/17 08:46 AM
Hello.
I did not play early access because I am waiting for full release, and I did not found enough information about companions.
How many characters are available to recruit (I know max party size is 4)?
Are there 5 of them like main image of this forum shows or more?
Are all recruitable characters available as main character as you start, or there are some that are only available as later companions?
Are Eithne (GOG Hero) and Fane (character from news) recruitable or they are just NPC characters?
I guess there is no option to start with own 4 custom characters?
Thanks for any info.

Posted By: Adrianna Re: companions - 09/09/17 08:54 AM
there are 6 companion characters (that you can also play as if you choose adding more story)

lohse, fane, beast, red prince, sebille, and ifan

you can play as all of them as well as make a custom character you can recruit all of them (up to a max party size of 4)

certain characters bring very very very bad events upon your group if you invite them (wont say who but its pretty obvious and you are even warned at some point during act 1)

you can start with 4 custom characters if you sorta cheat the game and invite yourself to the game 4 times on 4 different launches but it really doesnt matter that much since you get to pick their class for them when you invite them.
Posted By: Irons Re: companions - 09/09/17 08:55 AM
There are 6 Origin Char's (Fane, Lohse, Sebille, Ifan, Red, Beast) you can either pick them at the start or recruit in fort joy.
Posted By: 626th Re: companions - 09/09/17 09:43 AM
I've read info about Eithne, she is NPC that you can trade with later in game. Fane on other hand is a char that you can recruit or play.
For now there is an option to create custom chars, but it requires pretty good pc. You need to start 4 instanes of the game and create multiplayer game in LAN and join those instances, after all chars are created and game is started you can exit in all instances except for your main.

Also, you can start 4 custom chars if you start game with 3 other friends wink
Posted By: ociebieda Re: companions - 09/09/17 03:34 PM
So total number of available companion characters is 6 and all of them are available in very early game part?
Yes, I read about this 4 player trick.
It seems to be asked by many users.
If such thing like 4 customized characters party is allowed in multiplayer, then I wonder why it should not be possible in single player, especially because it is not so hard progamming to add such simple feature.
I know that creators put a lot of work into their characters so would prefer that players experience their great work with it.
Flat characters in party might be less interesting for some people, but there are also RPG players who prefer to customize own party that fit their vision and story.
I guess custom party option will be available with later update.
If not, then probably modding scene will do that.

Posted By: Adrianna Re: companions - 09/09/17 03:57 PM
Originally Posted by ociebieda
So total number of available companion characters is 6 and all of them are available in very early game part?
Yes, I read about this 4 player trick.
It seems to be asked by many users.
If such thing like 4 customized characters party is allowed in multiplayer, then I wonder why it should not be possible in single player, especially because it is not so hard progamming to add such simple feature.
I know that creators put a lot of work into their characters so would prefer that players experience their great work with it.
Flat characters in party might be less interesting for some people, but there are also RPG players who prefer to customize own party that fit their vision and story.
I guess custom party option will be available with later update.
If not, then probably modding scene will do that.



all of them are available pretty much right after the tutorial spread thruout the prison/surrounding area.
Posted By: Edvin Re: companions - 09/09/17 06:25 PM
So, there are no companions, there is just 6 preset playable characters?
It sounds even worse than the terrible dialogues with myself in Original Sin 1.

Let me guess, no "main hero" (all 6 characters are main heroes), no party banters, no party leader (you can choose who will talk), right?

It looks like single player game was again dumbed-down because of multiplayer.
I really hoped that Larian learned from the mistakes of the previous game :-(
Posted By: vometia Re: companions - 09/09/17 06:38 PM
There is a "main hero", and it can be one of the (somewhat customisable) origin characters or a character of your own creation. Although it's party oriented (though you can solo it if you want) your chosen character is still the lead.
Posted By: Neonivek Re: companions - 09/09/17 06:49 PM
Originally Posted by Adrianna
certain characters bring very very very bad events upon your group if you invite them


These events are also valuable for exp, gear, and loot.

So you will actively seek these out when available.
Posted By: Adrianna Re: companions - 09/09/17 07:05 PM
Originally Posted by Neonivek
Originally Posted by Adrianna
certain characters bring very very very bad events upon your group if you invite them


These events are also valuable for exp, gear, and loot.

So you will actively seek these out when available.


i was talking about lohse in particular.. where you are warned of a bad thing happening if she lives which we havent seen yet.. the gods themselves tell you to kill her.

sounds ominous.. lol
Posted By: Edvin Re: companions - 09/09/17 07:38 PM
Originally Posted by vometia
Although it's party oriented (though you can solo it if you want) your chosen character is still the lead.


How exactly does this manifest?

I also wondered how dialogues work.
Please do not tell me that "companions" are (again) mindless drones without their own personality and you have to pick their dialogues answers for them.
Posted By: Incendax Re: companions - 09/09/17 07:47 PM
They are not mindless drones. They will answer dialog on their own, and even initiate conversations with other people without you prompting them to.
Posted By: Hessen Re: companions - 09/09/17 08:02 PM
Originally Posted by Edvin

How exactly does this manifest?

I also wondered how dialogues work.
Please do not tell me that "companions" are (again) mindless drones without their own personality and you have to pick their dialogues answers for them.


You can talk to companions and ask from a set of questions about their backstory, or what you should do next, and they'll give a response.

They'll also (rarely) react to world events, giving their views on situations you find yourself in. But it's little more than the odd line of text or a small bit of backstory.

Not much in the way of chat or banter between the group.
Posted By: ociebieda Re: companions - 09/09/17 08:13 PM
Originally Posted by Edvin
Originally Posted by vometia
Although it's party oriented (though you can solo it if you want) your chosen character is still the lead.


How exactly does this manifest?

I also wondered how dialogues work.
Please do not tell me that "companions" are (again) mindless drones without their own personality and you have to pick their dialogues answers for them.


I am not sure if I understand correctly.
Are there any games where companions decide what to tell instead of player?
I saw at least they sometimes react by commenting your choices (if other character is speaking) or giving different dialogue options (if you choose them to talk - OS2 seems to be going that way based on some videos I saw) or changing their liking you (presented as liking in percents bar or they may just left your party or even attack or betray you later).
Some games I already finished: Baldurs Gate, Planescape Torment, Temple Of Elemental Evil, Wizardry 8, Dragon Age, Jagged Alliance 2.
I do not remember how dialogues were working in OS1, because I did not enjoy this game somehow (same with Pillars Of Eternity and Tyranny), and stopped playing whem reach the village and meet quests with undeads.
I am very interested in OS2, because I saw some videos showing challengable deep tactical part that is focused on turn based playing (which I miss in most crpg games except TToEE, W8, JA2) and graphic style seems to look natural (not another shiny colorful disneyland or japan or caricatural style).
I am happy that there is not another game with tactical pause that makes crpg games too simple in combat.
If you would like to plan deeper tactics in such games, it is very annoying hitting this space bar over and over in correct time for each party member - but sorry for off topic.

Posted By: Edvin Re: companions - 09/09/17 08:28 PM
Originally Posted by Hessen
You can talk to companions and ask from a set of questions about their backstory, or what you should do next, and they'll give a response.

They'll also (rarely) react to world events, giving their views on situations you find yourself in. But it's little more than the odd line of text or a small bit of backstory.

Not much in the way of chat or banter between the group.


Good, so it will not be a complete disaster wink

Last question:
If some NPC starts a dialogue with your group, do you have to choose what character will talk or is it always the leader?
Posted By: vometia Re: companions - 09/09/17 08:30 PM
Originally Posted by Edvin
Last question:
If some NPC starts a dialogue with your group, do you have to choose what character will talk or is it always the leader?

In my experience they've tended to talk to whoever is physically closest to them, which is sometimes quite annoying. Though I've still got to (generally) choose the reactions, so ymmv; and I suspect that's likely to have been significantly overhauled in the actual released game.
Posted By: Edvin Re: companions - 09/09/17 08:41 PM
Originally Posted by vometia
In my experience they've tended to talk to whoever is physically closest to them, which is sometimes quite annoying. Though I've still got to (generally) choose the reactions, so ymmv; and I suspect that's likely to have been significantly overhauled in the actual released game.


In that case, I hope you are right.

If every party member can talk with NPC and make decisions that will change the world, then there is no leader, no main hero and immersion with role playing experience are gone. sad

I hate when games doing this...
Posted By: Hessen Re: companions - 09/09/17 08:46 PM
Originally Posted by Edvin

In that case, I hope you are right.

If every party member can talk with NPC and make decisions that will change the world, then there is no leader, no main hero and immersion with role playing experience are gone. sad

I hate when games doing this...


You don't really have a main hero. You have the character you originally create, but you can walk around using one of the recruited NPCs as the main character if you want.

Which is what I tend to do, because I want my tank at the front, and my created character isn't the tank. So the recruited NPC is the one that responds to the dialogue most of the time.

I think this is quite unique, I haven't seen any other games where you can do that - so I'm not sure why you are saying games are doing this?
Posted By: Edvin Re: companions - 09/09/17 08:58 PM
Originally Posted by Hessen
I think this is quite unique, I haven't seen any other games where you can do that - so I'm not sure why you are saying games are doing this?



1) Icewind dale 1
2) Icewind dale 2
3) Neverwinter nights 2 Storm of zehir
4) Wasteland 2
(and Original Sin 1)


Although this system allows you to create good combat, does not allow to create a good story.
Posted By: vometia Re: companions - 09/09/17 08:59 PM
Originally Posted by Hessen
I think this is quite unique, I haven't seen any other games where you can do that - so I'm not sure why you are saying games are doing this?

I can't think of any offhand. Although in things like e.g. the Dragon Ages you can choose any current party member to lead, if conversation is initiated it's always with your primary character. That said, it does at least have the random banter between other characters which is often quite entertaining.
Posted By: ociebieda Re: companions - 09/09/17 09:01 PM
And what about when you would like to change party members in later game?
Lets say I have full party and I met another recruitable character.
I guess I have an option to remove one of current party members, but after I do that, am I able to recruit again?
And if in starting ACT 1 I guess I can find them in the place I met them for first time or maybe tavern, will I be able to regroup my party in later game (for example ACT 2)?

Posted By: Kawall Re: companions - 09/09/17 09:08 PM
In DOS companions had their own opinions and personality. If "companion" you mean 2nd created chracter you can give them AI personality in the chracter creation from couple options. I don't remember how many or what they called but there were definetly ai personalities.
Posted By: Kawall Re: companions - 09/09/17 09:18 PM
It's familiar to mass effect. For example in my last walkthrough I didn't recruit red prience(but talked him on the rock) but he appeared at lady vengeance and talked about a person and i should take him when we go that place. So I assume you don't need to use them actively to do their missions or they gone for forever.
Posted By: Adrianna Re: companions - 09/09/17 10:14 PM
The companions have their own story arcs and they will proceed with their story whether you take them into your group or not... this means you can run into them later and add them to your group later... however it was mentioned that some of them may be enemies with you if they are not in your group early on... and lohse storyline eventually leads to some horrible event that the gods themselves warn you about and tell you to kill her...

so they will have their own story arcs (which will be different if you play as them as your main character since you will be able to choose actions/responses that are different from their default choice)
Posted By: geala Re: companions - 10/09/17 07:32 AM
I cannot understand why a game is seen as "dumbed down" if there is no main hero and party leader. The "hero" and "exceptional sole saviour guy" subject is such a one-sided, boring and overstretched thing that I would be glad for a game without it. I usually don't want to become the leader of this and that. In the EA you already see where it is going in DOS2 and I'm not sure I'm glad about it. Let's wait and see.

In DOS2 the companions are quite strong chars, so there is hope. In the EA in at least two situations some companions can act in a way that totally changes the flow of the events/dialogs I expected. I was very surprised and a bit shocked. It's a good design.
Posted By: vometia Re: companions - 10/09/17 07:54 AM
As Inquisition was mentioned elsewhere just now, I'm reminded that a couple of NPCs got a lot of flak mostly because you couldn't brow-beat them into following your point of view, which I found a little surprising. Although I may inevitably play the main character as little more than an avatar of myself, one is enough: I don't need an entire party of me, that would be dull.

I'm also reminded of someone proposing elsewhere that it should be possible to talk around even a character's core personality traits with enough persuasion (I mean obvious stuff that wouldn't ever work) and I couldn't really understand why anyone would really see that as a desirable thing to have.
Posted By: Edvin Re: companions - 10/09/17 06:31 PM
Originally Posted by geala
I cannot understand why a game is seen as "dumbed down" if there is no main hero and party leader. The "hero" and "exceptional sole saviour guy" subject is such a one-sided, boring and overstretched thing that I would be glad for a game without it.


I think you misunderstood concept.
Main character do not have to be a "hero".

It's just a sticker for a character that is at the heart of the story and makes all the crucial decisions. You do not have to be the chosen one, the secret son of the King or man with amnesia.

Try to compare the books with games.
Have you ever tried to read the novel without the main character? It's nothing great, practically just a chronicle. The same problem is with RPGs that do not have the main character.

Players want create character with whom they can identify. They want to feel that they are at the heart of the story and that they are the ones who make the decision. This is the very foundation of RPG games.

As I wrote earlier, there were a couple of attempts to create an RPG without a main character. Some of these games were very solid tactical combat games, but none of them were really successful because none of them had a good story. It is practically impossible to make a good story without main character.

BUT

It's MORE easier and cheaper to do the game without the main character. That's why a lot of people think that these games are "dumbed down".
Posted By: geala Re: companions - 11/09/17 07:16 AM
One of my main interests is history, and so I'm used to a bunch of actors in a very complicated net of actions. As the great Steven Runciman ecplicitly wrote in the introduction of his book about the Sicilian Vesper, if you cannot deal with a lot of persons, stay away and read a novel (but not necessarily War and Peace perhaps).

A lot of games (and books, but in books you have a lot more chances to add interesting psychological stuff) have boringly similar stories. Because it is so easy to create a story with a main character in focus. Who becomes the leader of x, y and most important z. Because he/she is so special. Oh my.

So, it's maybe easier to make a game without any important character, but it's more complicated to make a game with a bunch of decisive characters than with one main character.

I don't blame the developers of games really for this. There are many limits for the devs because of certain restrictions, rules and needs to be considered. And then the poor devs face a lot of personal bias in addition. I don't like predefined characters for example. I don't want a main character with a strong story. I want to make and play my own character (one of the reasons I don't like The Witcher), but I want to deal with strong NPC characters.
Posted By: Feoras Re: companions - 11/09/17 12:38 PM
Originally Posted by Edvin
Try to compare the books with games.
Have you ever tried to read the novel without the main character? It's nothing great, practically just a chronicle. The same problem is with RPGs that do not have the main character.


I dunno man, a bunch of books don't actually have a main character, but a cast of characters and they are still entertaining. A Song of Ice and Fire comes to mind, as well as the Malazan Book of the Fallen.
Posted By: Edvin Re: companions - 11/09/17 11:51 PM
Originally Posted by geala
I want to make and play my own character (one of the reasons I don't like The Witcher), but I want to deal with strong NPC characters.


Reasonable view.
But if there is no difference between yours character and NPC characters, do you really have your own character? It seems to me that pre-created characters are more "main characters" then your custom made character. They have a detailed story and quests, you have nothing. This is main problem in Original Sin 2.

Originally Posted by Feoras
I dunno man, a bunch of books don't actually have a main character, but a cast of characters and they are still entertaining. A Song of Ice and Fire comes to mind, as well as the Malazan Book of the Fallen.


Only a few authors are able to write a book without the main character (Asimov Isaac was able to do that) and I expected someone to mention A Song of Ice and Fire. But do not mistake the very detailed side characters with main characters. A Song of Ice and Fire has three main characters (John, Daenerys and Night king) and whole story is based on these three characters.
Posted By: Edvin Re: companions - 12/09/17 12:13 AM
Anyway, it's quite clear why it's like that.
Whole single player experience was (again) "dumbed down" because off multiplayer experience.

It is not possible to create good story with single main protagonist if is game multiplayer oriented.
I wonder how many percentage of players actually play this game online that it paid off destroy the single player experience...

*sigh*

They could make at least a small concession.
Would be really that hard to create something like a button "Redirect all conversations to this character" ?

P.S.
I really, REALLY hope that the companions will have own AI during dialogues related to theirs their Q. If I will have to once AGAIN (biggest bullshit in Original Sin 1) choose dialogue answers for BOTH SIDES then I definitely will not buy the game.
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