Larian Studios
Posted By: Stabbey Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 08/11/17 03:00 PM
I recently finished my first playthrough of D:OS 2. I played using a mixed team:
Beast (Rogue): Scoundrel / Aerothurge / Polymorph (with a splash into two other schools for buffs)
Red Prince (Knight): Warfare / Summoner / Hydrosophist (Hydro for heals and buffs)
Lhose (Enchanter): Aerothurge / Hydrosophist / Necromancer
Sebille (Wizard): Pyrokinetic / Geomancer

I tried out a lot of skills from the game, with the exception of Huntsman. I didn't use a lot of Source skills and not a lot of crafted skills. Still, I've got a bunch of feedback, complete with suggestions for changes. I have tried to justify my opinions with sensible reasons why the current skill has an issue, and what I think a reasonable change is. I am open to discussion and changing my mind on many of these, if you have an argument of your own.

These are presented roughly in order of when I thought of them, not based on priority of the change.


Stabbey's Feedback, Part 2: Abilities and Attributes

Skill Balance

[Sourcery] Remove Source Point cost for Bless
Why? - Bless and Curse were promoted as these big game-changing skills which could alter terrain and change how the game plays. Unfortunately in the current state, only Curse sees significant use. Bless is not powerful enough to be worth the cost of a Source Point. This is because it only upgrades surfaces by one level (from cursed to normal or normal to blessed), and for only 2 turns. Meanwhile, enemies get to curse all day and all night long. Enemies cast curse directly, they cast curse with their Void Glide movement skill, and can even bleed curse, all for free. Bless cannot fulfill its main use of clearing cursed surfaces like that, never mind actually being used to create blessed surfaces for the player's use.
Suggested Change: Remove the Source Point cost for Bless completely. If Larian actually intends Bless to be used regularly in the game as part of combat, that has to be done. Any buffs in other areas will not make Bless more attractive because of the Souce Point cost.

If Larian finds it necessary to compensate for that buff, they could increase the AP cost to 2 and possibly increase the cooldown to 3-4 turns. Honestly I could also make an argument for having the Memory cost of Blessed removed, to make it match Source Vision and Source Vampirism, but I'd settle for just ditching the Source Point cost.

EDIT: Oh! How about this as well: Characters under the effects of the Bless status effect bleed Bless when hit. That has a nice symmetry with void creatures bleeding Curse, and provides an incentive to use Bless on a person instead of a surface.



[Warfare] Provoke/Taunt needs major changes
Why? - When a target has no physical armor, there are many other status effects which are better to use on it. Taunt being blocked makes the skill useless in most situations. The patch note from three weeks ago, "Improved Taunting in favour of the Taunter", ignored the main problem.
Suggested Change: This is admittedly tricky. Probably just removing the physical armor save could be an issue. One change at least should be that Taunted characters can only use their normal attack, they are effectively muted and can't use skills, scrolls or potions. Another change might be to adjust it from a short-range caster-centered AoE to a long-range single-target.
EDIT: Maybe combine both those changes... but that still might be annoying if Taunt can penetrate Physical armor. So... wqhat if Taunt lasts for 1 turn, but afterwards, the person is immune from Taunt for the next 2 turns?



[Sebille][Sourcery] Break the Shackles should also remove Silence.
Why? - Seriously, this skill is already extremely situational (if not outright underpowered), given the many ways to remove other status effects. If you make Sebille a mage, Silence is the single biggest crippling spell, and this source point skill entirely based around removing debuffs can't even remove that. You're also very unlikely to be under more than a couple of these status effects at once, further limiting its utility.
Suggested Change: Removes Silence, and possibly Taunted. If this was early in development, I'd also suggest that this could remove hard CC like Stunned and Frozen, but adding code in that only applies if the character is Sebille could be troublesome, so never mind.


[Red Prince][Sourcery] Demonic Stare should also steal Physical Armor
Why? - There are a lot of skills which only restore one type of armor. I can carry scrolls to restore armor. This is a Source skill, if I spend a Source Point, it should be more impressive. No other skill restores BOTH physical and magical armor at once. This skill, by only boosting Magical armor, is much less useful if Red Prince is a mage.
Suggested Change: Maybe reduce the amount of armor it steals, but change it so it steals an equal amount of both armors, so it's useful for more builds and more unique.


[Lhose][Sourcery] Maddening Song should only affect enemies and last 2 turns.
Why? - It's already a cut-rate Charm which still allows enemies to attack your team, it requires a Source point AND lasts only one turn. It's already a very poor and situational use of a Source Point, it doesn't need the additional downside of affecting allies as well. It should also get buffed to two turns.
Suggested Change: The skill should only affect enemies in the radius and be buffed to two turns.


[Dwarf] Lower Petrifying Touch AP cost to 1
Why? Petrifying Touch is not a very powerful skill. It requires magic armor to be stripped, it lasts only one turn, it does poor damage, and it is a melee range skill. Contrast that with the Medusa Head Polymorph skill and its Petrifying Gaze. You get a Petrifying aura, and a skill with a very large radius which does Earth damage to all enemies with petrification. Additionally, the 2 AP cost means that it is less attractive to use. There are a lot of things one can do with 2 AP, most of which would be better choices. If it cost 1 AP that would bring it in line with other racial skills.
Suggested Change: Lower Petrifying Touch's AP cost to 1 AND Remove the damage component. The damage is slight and not the most important thing. Without the damage, it can now be used as a status-effect remover on your teammates, a discount Cryogenic Stasis.


[Human] Improve scaling of Encourage
Why? - It starts out the same as Encourage from D:OS 1 - +1 to 4 attributes. That's already automatically worse than D:OS 1 because one attribute point is worth 25% as much (you start out with 10 instead of 5 and gain 2 per level instead of 0.5).
Suggested Change: Encourage should gain +1 to the 4 attributes every 5 levels (5, 10, 15, 20, etc...). so at level 20, it would be +5 to each. That will keep it much more relevant throughout the game.


Flurry and All In should get a damage boost
Why? - Pretty much no one uses them because they're so AP-inefficient. They do +25% damage for the cost of +50% AP. The way the tooltip for Flurry works makes it even less attractive to use. The tooltip for Flurry says it does X damage 3 times, which makes it a little more inconvenient for its purpose of trying to determine whether it has a reasonable chance of finishing an enemy off.

EDIT: There is the complication that enemies love to use All In and a damage boost there could be troublesome. Hmmm... It still might be worth it just to make it more useful for players, though.

Suggested Change: Boost the damage of Flurry and All In by at least another 15%, up to a maximum of an additional +25%. Consider changing Flurry's tooltip to say "the total amount of damage from all three attacks will be X-X damage).


[Geomancy][Hydrosophist] Improve scaling of Mend Metal and Soothing Cold
Why? - They scale very poorly in comparison to the damage enemies can do. At level 20, with 10 in the appropriate school, they restore 560 armor for 3 turns. That sounds like a lot, but by that time a single enemy can strip more than that amount of armor in a single attack.
Suggested Change: The number might need tweaking, but maybe multiply the boost by 2.5? That would also require boosting Armor of Frost and Fortify as well, though, because they are single-target only.


[Aerothurge] Improve duration of Favourable Wind skill
Why? - It's not a very powerful skill, and that's fine, but to justify memorizing it over other skills, it could be better.
Suggested Change: Increase the duration to 5 or 6 turns (and boost the cooldown period of 5 turns by 1-2 turns). This doesn't increase its power, but because it lasts longer it is more attractive to use.


[Aerothurge] Fix line of sight requirement for Netherswap
Why? - It's a teleportation skill, magically and instantaneously moving two targets by the use of magic. It doesn't seem to make sense that there must be a clear line of sight between both targets with no obstructions.
Suggested Change: The caster requires a clear line of sight to both, that is sufficient.


[Pyrokinetic][Polymorph] Buff Bleed Fire
Why? - It's extremely underwhelming. Enemies bleeding fire is rarely, if not never, something which has a lot of use. It doesn't even do damage other than from the surface.
Suggested Change: Bleed Fire should set Bleed and Burning unless resisted by physical and magical armor respectively.


[Geomancer][Warfare] Oily Carapace should set Immune to Slow
Why? - Well, just from the description alone, it pretty much screams "use this skill after an enemy launches a big oil attack on your feet. This restores your armor, but still leaves you slowed, and almost nothing removes Slow. (I can only think of Haste, which seems like very few buffs considering that slow ignores armor.)
Suggested Change: Remove Slowed status and set Immune to Slow for 1-2 turns (only if you actually absorb some oil).


[Hydrosophist][Polymorph] Healing Tears should work on walking near to allies as well.
Why? - Right now it seems to ONLY work when allies are the ones doing the walking. It should also work when the caster is the one moving to the allies. This seems to be a strange quirk with a lot of aura-type skills.
Suggested Change: Change it so that the healing affects allies once they enter the radius regardless of who was the one who actually moved into the radius.


[Hydrosophist][Scoundrel] Increase casting range of Vampiric Hunger
Why? - It can be cast on allies, but the range is 2 meters. It seems like it should either be a self-buff only, or have a larger casting range.
Suggested Change: Increase the casting range to 5 meters.


[Scoundrel] Boost Gag Order's power/AP
Why? - Compare and contrast to Chloroform, another Scoundrel skill.
Chloroform (Scoundrel 1) strips magic armor and applies Sleeping (hard CC) to targets without MA for one turn at a range of 13 meters. It costs 1 AP to use. Gag order (Scoundrel 2) strips magic armor and applies Silenced (soft CC) to targets without MA for one turn at a range of 3 meters. It costs 3 AP to use.

At level 9:
Chloroform strips 53-59 MA.
Gag Order strips 57-64 MA. (An average increase of 8% over Chloroform, for 200% more AP.)

At level 19:
Chloroform strips 630-696 MA.
Gag Order strips 668-701 MA. (An average increase of 3.5% percent over Chloroform, for 200% more AP.)

In every single aspect, range, effect, Scoundrel point investment needed, and AP cost, Chloroform is vastly superior, for only slightly less damage.

Suggested Change:
Suggestions: Either A) Reduce Gag Order's AP cost from 3 to 1 (not to 2, to 1). -OR-
B) Triple the power of Chloroform for Gag Order to match the AP cost.

At level 9:
OLD Gag Order strips 57-64 MA.
NEW Gag Order strips 159-177 MA.

At level 19:
OLD Gag Order strips 668-701 MA.
NEW Gag Order strips 1890-2088 MA.

One other option which technically would be bringing them into balance would be to nerf Chloroform up to 2 AP and buff Gag Order down to 2 AP. But I don't like that idea.



[Aerothurge][Scoundrel] Buff Smoke Cloud
Why? - 2 AP and a 5 turn cooldown is a lot to ask for a skill which does no damage, lasts for one turn, and can obstruct your teammates view. It could have a niche use for stealth, sneaking through busy areas if it could be cast without breaking sneak or invisibility as well.
Suggested Change: Reduce the AP cost from 2 to 1, reduce the cooldown from 5 turns to 2 or 3. This will make it much more useful in combat for its role of providing cover for the Rogue so they can't be targeted as easily. Allow it to be cast while sneaking or invisible. This will allow it to get a character to hide from patrols for a few seconds.


[Aerothurge][Scoundrel][Sourcery] Buff Blessed Smoke Cloud
Why? - Great, it turns you invisible, BUT the skill only has a 3 meter radius, it only lasts for 1 turn, and it costs 2 memory slots AND 2 source points? Invisibility is removed by almost everything, and it doesn't give bonuses to attacking. This skill seems overpriced and underpowered.
Suggested Change: Instead of boosting the power, reduce the Memory and Source point cost by 1.


[Huntsman] Boost Assassinate's bonus
Why? - Testing with my Finesse character, using Delorus's bow.
Base damage is 407-497.
Assassinate Damage is 468-572. (+15%)
Assassinate Damage while sneaking ranged between... 718 and 856 over 10 attacks. EDIT: Wiki says +72.5%

So maybe the multiplier when sneaking is something like 1.75x a normal attack, which would give a range between 712-870 for 3 AP. My number is no doubt off, but this is a close enough guesstimate for our purposes. EDIT: Actual number is 1.725x the damage of a normal attack.

That's less than the 814-994 you would get for 2 normal attacks at 4 AP, but 1.725 damage for 1.5 times the AP is a good deal. But wait, we're forgetting the AP cost of Sneaking. In combat, with the 4 AP cost of Sneaking to prepare the attack, now you are doing 1.725x damage of a normal attack for 3.5x the AP cost.

So without sneaking, you're paying +50% extra AP to gain +15% extra damage. That is not remotely worthwhile. With Sneaking, it's still underpowered. With the cost of Sneak at 4 AP, this makes Assassinate only useful to open combat, making the AP cost irrelevant. Even if Sneak was reduced to 2 AP, you would still be spending 5 AP to get the damage of 4 AP worth of attacks.
Suggested Change: Boost Assassinate's bonus from +15% to +50% (making this the bow equivilant of "All In") and probably eliminate or greatly reduce the bonus for sneaking.


[Aerothurge] Why does Apportation exist?
Why? - This skill sucks all the items on the ground nearby into your inventory. That's it. This seems to be a clear indication of a developer needing to meet a quota for "Aerothurge skills", but not having enough ideas. This skill is not even available until level 16, at which point you should have better options to use that Memory Slot for, such as every other skill in the entire game.
Suggested Change: Two ideas:
1) The easy, less work one would be to reduce the memory cost of Apporation from 1 to 0. As in this skill does not cost any Memory at all. Because it's really, really, REALLY not worth a memory slot in combat. It doesn't even have a combat use.

2) Delete Apportation and replace with a better skill. Here's one idea for free:
Wind Shear - A line-shaped AoE effect which does moderate air damage to all targets in the line and tries to set Knocked Down (resisted by Magic Armor). AP Cost: 3, Source Point Cost: 0, Cooldown: 5 turns.

Boom, now you have another level 16 skill which actually is worth using.



[Polymorph] Spread Your Wings should make you Floating and immune from ground surfaces
Why? - Floating above surfaces is basically HALF the benefit of the skill. It's annoying that you land at the conclusion of the leap or movement and take damage. And no, I do not care that the animation shows you touching down. You should be immune to surfaces regardless of what the animation shows.
Suggested Change: You don't have to change the animation, just change the code so you're still considered floating and don't take damage at the end of your movement from landing.
EDIT: Alexstrasza suggests that you flap your wings to create a circle of cleared terrain at the point of landing, which is an interesting idea.



[Huntsman] Farsight just underwhelming.
Why? - A Source point and 2 Memory slots feels a lot to ask for just three turns of +2 range. Usually you can get more than enough with high ground in the area and spending those slots onto movement skills.
Suggested Change: Boost the duration to 4 or 5 turns.


[Polymorph] [Element][Sourcery] Boost all [Element] Skin skills
Why? - For requiring a Source point, and also giving you a weakness (even if it is only 30%), these skills are really underwhelming.
Suggested Change: The whole point is the immunity, so boost the duration from 2 turns to 3 or 4 turns. That would be one thing you could do.
Posted By: eLPuSHeR Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 08/11/17 05:48 PM
Nice read Stabbey. Very well put.
Posted By: Try2Handing Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 08/11/17 07:44 PM
From a quick read I agree with most of the points and reasoning; the rest I don't really have experience with. But the presentation of your post is definitely next level.

EDIT: And also, as I pointed out in one of my posts, Silencing Stare (and generally the "Silence" effect) really deserves some fine-tuning.
Posted By: miaasma Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 09/11/17 12:26 AM
well formatted post

i agree with most of it, especially regarding mend metal and soothing cold. those spells are effectively worthless late game, enemies are frequently hitting for 3 to 4 times the amount of armor you recover per turn, and the aoe is already quite small, so it's hard to justify using it over almost anything else

something else not mentioned - is cryogenic stasis working properly? every time i use it it does nothing and is somehow gone almost instantly. allies still manage to take damage with it on too
Posted By: Stabbey Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 09/11/17 04:22 AM
I never used Silencing Stare at all, and the only Silence I used was random chances from weapon attacks.

Originally Posted by miaasma
something else not mentioned - is cryogenic stasis working properly? every time i use it it does nothing and is somehow gone almost instantly. allies still manage to take damage with it on too


Oh right, yeah, it seems to be buggy as hell. One time I swear that I died to a Meteor Storm while still Cryogenically Frozen - which should be impossible because it gives you 100%+ Resist to everything including fire.

But that's a bug, and I'm talking about purposeful things which might need re-balancing.
Posted By: Alexstrasza Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 09/11/17 06:23 AM
Great post, Stabbey. The formatting made it enjoyable to read.

For the Spread Your Wings bit, I had an idea for it where when you land, it blows away a circle of terrain effects around where you land. Y'know, like your wings are gusting away the fire or whatever as you bring yourself to a stop and land.
Posted By: sehnsucht Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 09/11/17 12:07 PM
These are good changes. Unfortunately, the top priority for now is bugs...
Posted By: Stabbey Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 09/11/17 12:13 PM
Originally Posted by Alexstrasza
Great post, Stabbey. The formatting made it enjoyable to read.

For the Spread Your Wings bit, I had an idea for it where when you land, it blows away a circle of terrain effects around where you land. Y'know, like your wings are gusting away the fire or whatever as you bring yourself to a stop and land.


Neat idea.

This is sort of both Skills and UI related.


[Polymorph][UI] Skill-granting skills should be replaced on the hotbar
Why? - Several Polymorph skills such as Spread Your Wings, Medusa Head, Bull Horns, and Spider Legs, once used, add a new skill to the hotbar. For some reason, it adds this new skill as a separate skill, instead of replacing the one needed to cast it. This has NEGATIVE synergy with the other UI feature which clutters up your hotbar with every single piece of usable junk you've picked up. If you've done the sensible thing and started ignoring the first 2 hotbars in favour of Hotbars 3-5, it makes it hard to find where the newly granted skill has gone, which is an annoyance. There's no reason why we need to see that Spread Your Wings is active while we have wings sprouting from our backs.
Suggested Change: When casting one of those skills, temporarily replace the base skill with the granted skill, for the duration the granted skill is active. This keeps things neat, and keeps the granted skill easy to find. Once the granted skill ends, bring back the base skill to the original spot with the remaining cooldown.


Update to the idea for Taunt/Provoke (see the bottom):

[Warfare] Provoke/Taunt needs major changes
Why? - When a target has no physical armor, there are many other status effects which are better to use on it. Taunt being blocked makes the skill useless in most situations. The patch note from three weeks ago, "Improved Taunting in favour of the Taunter", ignored the main problem.
Suggested Change: This is admittedly tricky. Probably just removing the physical armor save could be an issue. One change at least should be that Taunted characters can only use their normal attack, they are effectively muted and can't use skills, scrolls or potions. Another change might be to adjust it from a short-range caster-centered AoE to a long-range single-target.
EDIT: Maybe combine both those changes... but that still might be annoying if Taunt can penetrate Physical armor. So... wqhat if Taunt lasts for 1 turn, but afterwards, the person is immune from Taunt for the next 2 turns?

Posted By: sehnsucht Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 09/11/17 01:49 PM
Originally Posted by Stabbey
Probably just removing the physical armor save could be an issue.


IMO this should be applied to all debuff skills. Only soft and hard CC should be blocked by armor. Debuffs (Curse/Nullified Resistance, etc) should all ignore armor.
Posted By: Stabbey Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 09/11/17 02:41 PM
What makes Taunt more complicated though, is that it acts like soft CC on enemies, but hard CC on PC's, because it removes control from your character.
Posted By: Try2Handing Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 09/11/17 08:09 PM
Originally Posted by Stabbey
What makes Taunt more complicated though, is that it acts like soft CC on enemies, but hard CC on PC's, because it removes control from your character.


To be fair, *sometimes* the AI does a pretty good job when your char is taunted. I was like wow they played that turn a lot better than I would have. If you have the tools/resources, there are so many things you can possibly do in one turn and sometimes the AI comes up with pretty nice combos.

But it's possible that all they'd do is spamming the same potions within 2 turns.
Posted By: Alexstrasza Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 09/11/17 08:44 PM
Originally Posted by Try2Handing
But it's possible that all they'd do is spamming the same potions within 2 turns.


That's what really annoys me.

>get maddened
>spend 6 ap on using my invisibility potions and stuff
>adrenaline
>it doesn't stop
>halp
>flesh sacrifice
>*uncorks another potion*
>AI: ":)"
Posted By: Endarire Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 09/11/17 09:50 PM
[Warfare] Enrage (and its status effect) should only disable your 'magical' abilities.

Presently, Enrage prevents people from using 'physical' abilities like Spread Your Wings or Flight. Instead, disable magical skills (like most Pyro/Hydro/Geo/Aero/Necro/Summo skills).

[Summoning] Add a Blood Infusion skillbook.

Presently, the 'blood infusion' skill is available by summoning incarnates on blood surfaces, but this very useful infusion ISN'T available as a book officially. It seems like a very simple matter to make this a crafted book requiring Summoning 1 & Necromancy 1. The art assets and code (almost) all exist.

[Summoning] Why summon 'Plot Units' (Cat Familiar, etc.) instead of Incarnates?

Each summon has its uses, even if they're niche. Mostly though, with a one-at-a-time limit for summons and a notable recharge time and memory slot requirements, why would I seriously consider normally not using an Incarnate instead of, say, a Cat Familiar? Maybe if I could have both swap amongst my summons as an ability where all summons shared the same timer (normally 10 rounds) and all infusions, I'd be inclined to use non-totems and non-Incarnates more often. It's like Pokemon.
Posted By: Cavemandiary Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 10/11/17 02:46 PM
It's difficult to disagree with any of this. What boggles my mind is how this even got past QA...
Posted By: Stabbey Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 10/11/17 03:44 PM
Originally Posted by Endarire
[Warfare] Enrage (and its status effect) should only disable your 'magical' abilities.

Presently, Enrage prevents people from using 'physical' abilities like Spread Your Wings or Flight. Instead, disable magical skills (like most Pyro/Hydro/Geo/Aero/Necro/Summo skills).

[Summoning] Add a Blood Infusion skillbook.

Presently, the 'blood infusion' skill is available by summoning incarnates on blood surfaces, but this very useful infusion ISN'T available as a book officially. It seems like a very simple matter to make this a crafted book requiring Summoning 1 & Necromancy 1. The art assets and code (almost) all exist.


I agree with both of these.


Quote
[Summoning] Why summon 'Plot Units' (Cat Familiar, etc.) instead of Incarnates?

Each summon has its uses, even if they're niche. Mostly though, with a one-at-a-time limit for summons and a notable recharge time and memory slot requirements, why would I seriously consider normally not using an Incarnate instead of, say, a Cat Familiar? Maybe if I could have both swap amongst my summons as an ability where all summons shared the same timer (normally 10 rounds) and all infusions, I'd be inclined to use non-totems and non-Incarnates more often. It's like Pokemon.


I'm not sure I understand this idea very well. It sounds like you want all summons to share the same cooldown period, which, if so, would make me much less likely to have those memorized at all, much less use them.

********

[Necromancy] Healing from Blood Sucker should work like Mosquito Swarm and Necro Passive
Why? - Right now, Mosquito Swarm and the healing from the passive ability both count as "neutral" healing, they always heal regardless whether the person is Undead or under Decaying Touch. Blood Sucker, is treated as positive healing, so it does harm those under Decaying Touch (and maybe Undead too). This is inconsistent behavior.
Suggested Change: Therefore - unless the blood is Cursed, of course - Blood Sucker should also be treated like Neutral healing (always works). Cursed blood should probably be treated as harmful regardless of Undead or Decaying status.

EDIT: It was pointed out to me that in it's current state, it can be used with Decaying Touch as a powerful damage combo. So that probably might be a good reason to not change it.



[Necromancy] Decaying Touch status on Undead should reverse the effects of Undead Talent
Why? - No super-compelling reason except that it seems like it should make sense. The whole deal with Undead is that they take damage from healing but are healed by poison and such. The Decaying Touch status effect, when applied to a living person, is harmed by non-necromancer healing. I feel like it should reverse the effect when applied to an Undead.

EDIT: However, this idea is mostly me going along with what other people have said, because I haven't played as an Undead yet, so I might be wrong on how some of those interactions work.

Suggested Change: If an Undead is affected by Decaying, positive energy healing spells should heal them for the duration of the status.


[Sourcery] Remove Source Point cost for Bless
Suggested Change: EDIT: Additional idea I just thought of: Characters under the effects of the Bless status effect bleed Bless when hit. That has a nice symmetry with void creatures bleeding Curse, and provides an incentive to use Bless on a person instead of a surface.


Posted By: Try2Handing Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 10/11/17 04:53 PM
I think it sounds better if undead just can't be affected by decaying at all.

Originally Posted by Stabbey
Characters under the effects of the Bless status effect bleed Bless when hit. That has a nice symmetry with void creatures bleeding Curse, and provides an incentive to use Bless on a person instead of a surface


Cool idea. I like it.
Posted By: JosieJ Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 10/11/17 05:25 PM
I'm still struggling to understand why healing skills in the Hydrosophist magic school, where every other skill does magic damage and is resisted by magic armor, do physical damage to undead, thus rendering them suboptimal (for damage purposes) for a pure Hydrosophist. (Works great on Clerics, though!)

I'm new to the series, so maybe there's some reason I'm not aware of?

Posted By: Kalrakh Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 10/11/17 09:11 PM
Because they have a lot of ideas but fail at grasping of the consequences of those ideas, because the splitting of armor ruins a lot of those things.
Posted By: waterzxc Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 11/11/17 01:27 AM
Originally Posted by Stabbey
[quote=Endarire]
[Necromancy] Healing from Blood Sucker should work like Mosquito Swarm and Necro Passive
Why? - Right now, Mosquito Swarm and the healing from the passive ability both count as "neutral" healing, they always heal regardless whether the person is Undead or under Decaying Touch. Blood Sucker, is treated as positive healing, so it does harm those under Decaying Touch (and maybe Undead too). This is inconsistent behavior.
Suggested Change: Therefore - unless the blood is Cursed, of course - Blood Sucker should also be treated like Neutral healing (always works). Cursed blood should probably be treated as harmful regardless of Undead or Decaying status.


I agree with most of the things you say, but I disagree with this one.

Blood sucker + decaying touch is a damage combo for necromancer. It is supposed to work with other skills that create large blood pools (blood rain, bloated corpse, bleeding from mosquito swarm).

Necromancer suffers from the lack of damage option within its own school, taking away the above damage combo would make this school feels even worse.

I know, decay+regeneration is almost always a better and more consistent damage output, but with some number tweaks, Blood Sucker/Decay can give some nasty burst damage, compared to the pseudo DOT from Regen/Decay
Posted By: Stabbey Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 11/11/17 02:24 AM
Originally Posted by waterzxc
I agree with most of the things you say, but I disagree with this one.

Blood sucker + decaying touch is a damage combo for necromancer. It is supposed to work with other skills that create large blood pools (blood rain, bloated corpse, bleeding from mosquito swarm).

Necromancer suffers from the lack of damage option within its own school, taking away the above damage combo would make this school feels even worse.

I know, decay+regeneration is almost always a better and more consistent damage output, but with some number tweaks, Blood Sucker/Decay can give some nasty burst damage, compared to the pseudo DOT from Regen/Decay


Oh. Hmmm... I hadn't really considered that. I didn't explore the full Necromancy line, I only took it as a physical-damage supplement for my mages to use when their primary schools were ineffective.

So I guess I can cancel out my request for that change.
Posted By: JosieJ Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 11/11/17 02:32 AM
Originally Posted by JosieJ
I'm still struggling to understand why healing skills in the Hydrosophist magic school, where every other skill does magic damage and is resisted by magic armor, do physical damage to undead, thus rendering them suboptimal (for damage purposes) for a pure Hydrosophist. (Works great on Clerics, though!)

I'm new to the series, so maybe there's some reason I'm not aware of?

Originally Posted by Kalrakh
Because they have a lot of ideas but fail at grasping of the consequences of those ideas, because the splitting of armor ruins a lot of those things.


Hah, in that case, it'd be nice if they improved it. If they changed the resistance from physical to magic armor, it'd mess it up for Clerics and other physical builds; I wouldn't want that to happen. But maybe they could make it so that healing spells didn't do any direct damage to either type of armor, but would do damage to enemies' vitality once you stripped either their physical or magic armor. That'd work for both physical and magic builds, and still stay within the current armor system. Or they could make them do piercing damage, ignoring armor altogether; that'd make them too overpowered, though, at least in my opinion.
Posted By: Hassat Hunter Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 11/11/17 11:12 AM
Especially since enemies 100% cast regeneration on Fane at the start of combat, and healing with poison hasn't shown reliable to me still (usually it quickly turns to fire, as everything does).

Haven't used all the stuff talked about here, but from all I did, I can't help but agree. Some notes;
*Chloroform sounds fairly overpowered for a level 1 skill, so why be against a little nerf to it?
*Taunt really suffers from its enemy/team disparity. I do agree removing the armor-check, but changing the enemy effect to something like 50% damage to non-taunter enemies while under the effect, rather than have the AI use up your entire inventory.

I'll have to check ingame for most skills I deem useless, since I pretty much unmemorise them and forget them, but a few notes;
*Shackles of Pain shouldn't be countered by armor. It does no damage at all, takes 2AP, and the usefulness depends on taking damage (to which most of the times enemies utilising this spell get killed by their allies to have effect, ruining their AP in the process so, yeah...) for which players take less than enemies anyway (also the reason why damage reflection generally sucks in these types of games, D:OS2 included). The few times enemies used it on me it was rarily something I bothered being worried about. So removing it makes it a better tool for them, and us. Rather than just being blandishly useless as it is now.

Phoenix Dive. In Beta it offered fire immunity for 1 round so you wouldn't burn yourself with it. Which, you know... makes sense. Now each time it's used you hurt yourself with it too. Why was this changed?
Posted By: Kubiben Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 11/11/17 11:16 AM
Great post and great changes. I dont want to be a party crasher but they will not read this. They will not do anything about this. Game is praised by 'everyone' and we are just the 'stupid ones' or trolls that try to find something to complain on.
Posted By: Stabbey Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 11/11/17 02:02 PM
Originally Posted by Hassat Hunter

*Chloroform sounds fairly overpowered for a level 1 skill, so why be against a little nerf to it?


That's a silly thing to say. Just because you get the skill at level 1 does not mean it should turn to garbage as you level up. All skills in this game scale with level, which means their power level stays roughly the same over time.

Enemies at level 20 have about 2700 MA on the LOW end of the scale, and both Chloroform and Gag Order do no damage to Vitality. So I disagree with you that Chloroform is overpowered.

But it is up to Larian how they want to handle Chloroform/Gag Order. I did offer the option at the end to Increase Chloroform's AP cost and reduce Gag Order's AP cost, but in addition to my dislike of the idea, it's uncreative and makes them pretty much redundant.


Quote
*Taunt really suffers from its enemy/team disparity. I do agree removing the armor-check, but changing the enemy effect to something like 50% damage to non-taunter enemies while under the effect, rather than have the AI use up your entire inventory.


That's another thing which could work well and work for both enemy and ally, because it would no longer remove control from the player characters.


Quote
*Shackles of Pain shouldn't be countered by armor. It does no damage at all, takes 2AP, and the usefulness depends on taking damage (to which most of the times enemies utilising this spell get killed by their allies to have effect, ruining their AP in the process so, yeah...) for which players take less than enemies anyway (also the reason why damage reflection generally sucks in these types of games, D:OS2 included). The few times enemies used it on me it was rarily something I bothered being worried about. So removing it makes it a better tool for them, and us. Rather than just being blandishly useless as it is now.


I don't agree with this, because there is no counter to this spell at all except having the victim know Shackles of Pain and cast it onto the enemy who cast it on them, AND it lasts for three turns. You cannot do anything to remove this spell, and three turns is a lot when you can't remove a status.

Additionally, it's a lot more of a pain than you believe it is, because enemies exploit this by ATTACKING EACH OTHER just to kill your party members faster, and given the big disparity in health pools, damage, and armor, that's a lot more dangerous to you than them.


Quote
Phoenix Dive. In Beta it offered fire immunity for 1 round so you wouldn't burn yourself with it. Which, you know... makes sense. Now each time it's used you hurt yourself with it too. Why was this changed?


Dunno. Maybe to discourage its use for teleporting into Necrofire? The fire immunity could come back.


Originally Posted by Kubiben
Great post and great changes. I dont want to be a party crasher but they will not read this. They will not do anything about this.


I'm actually quite confident that you're incorrect about this.
Posted By: Hassat Hunter Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 11/11/17 02:57 PM
What other hard CC is available for 1AP then?

The counter is pretty much killing the caster. Which as stated, enemies gladly help with, using their AP to kill a teammate and not attack us. Sure, one of the team still takes some damage, but one compared to all? Not a bad trade-off. As said, maybe it's from the few enemies using it, but I hardly ever considered it a threat, often being actually beneficial in them wasting AP and killing one of their own saving me from doing so.
I've yet to encounter an instance where them hurting each other to attack me wasn't in my best interest. I mean if you can take 50 damage, or take 50 damage and meanwhile deal 50 damage, which is the worst of the 2? It's like an actual efficient form of damage reflection (unlike the skill), which they willingly put on you, free of cost.
Posted By: waterzxc Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 11/11/17 03:13 PM
I'm half way through my massive skill rebalance mod, which is intended for my own playthrough. Some of the changes I made:

1. Taunt
Instead of making it ignore Physical Armor, I turn Taunt into an offensive status effects rather than defensive. It reduces elemental and physical resistance, because Taunted enemies are too focused on trying to kill you.

2. Elemental status
Elemental status, such as Burning, Poisoned, Shocked, etc give moderate to massive reduction to corresponding elements. This is a buff to all magic schools by indirectly increasing their effective damage to Vitality, but damage to Magic Armor is unaffected because these debuffs are still resisted by Magic Armor.
I do NOT make them bypass Magic Armor, because the prevalence of fire/poison surface means my characters will be covered in these statuses for 90% of the game if I do.

One of the hidden purposes of this change is:
Wet can bypass Armor, and give a moderate reduction of Air resistance. This makes Air better at removing Magic Armor and applies Shocked and Stun.
Once Magic Armor is removed, you can apply Burning which gives massive reduction to Fire resistance. On top of the burning DOT (which I also buff), Fire becomes better at actually killing people.


3. Shackle of Pain
I lower the damage transfer of Shackle of Pain from 100% to 75%. Since there's no effective way to remove Shackle, this change is made to make it feels less frustrating when enemies throw it on your characters. To compensate for this nerf, I give Shackle some damage. This serves the dual purpose of giving Necro tree more attack skills.


4. More elemental damage bonus on weapons
Splitting Physical and Magic Armor is fine if people stop using only one type of damage. I improve the elemental damage bonus on weapons, so even if you are using all physical team, you can still take away a good portion of magic armor from enemies, which in turns allows you to use magical debuff.

Posted By: Kubiben Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 11/11/17 05:39 PM
Originally Posted by Stabbey


Originally Posted by Kubiben
Great post and great changes. I dont want to be a party crasher but they will not read this. They will not do anything about this.


I'm actually quite confident that you're incorrect about this.


How so?
Posted By: Kalrakh Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 11/11/17 06:36 PM
Can't you break shackles of Pain by creating enough distance between both?
Posted By: Kubiben Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 11/11/17 10:51 PM
Originally Posted by Kalrakh
Can't you break shackles of Pain by creating enough distance between both?


Nope, tested it a while ago. Fight with the guy that Shackles you and his prisoners near 'oil dig site'. With enough distance visual effect disappears but returns as soon as the distanced is shortend.
Posted By: Stabbey Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 13/11/17 05:44 PM
[Aerothurge] Tornado Cooldown is excessive
Why? - This is the only non-summoning skill I am aware of with a cooldown longer than 6 turns. It is powerful, it removes surfaces in a good-sized area, including cursed surfaces, lava, and deathfog, but the casting range is not terribly long, and it does no damage.
Suggested Change: Reduce the cooldown to 6 turns. That's still a substantial amount of time. Increasing the limit of how far you can cast it couldn't hurt either.


Originally Posted by Kubiben
How so?


I'll just say I have a good feeling. Now, what changes, if any, will happen, I have no idea.
Originally Posted by Stabbey
[Aerothurge] Tornado Cooldown is excessive
Why? - This is the only non-summoning skill I am aware of with a cooldown longer than 6 turns. It is powerful, it removes surfaces in a good-sized area, including cursed surfaces, lava, and deathfog, but the casting range is not terribly long, and it does no damage.
Suggested Change: Reduce the cooldown to 6 turns. That's still a substantial amount of time. Increasing the limit of how far you can cast it couldn't hurt either.

Those cooldowns designed to force scroll-using.
Posted By: Zoranus Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 14/11/17 03:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Stabbey
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Skill Balance

[Sourcery] Remove Source Point cost for Bless
Why? - Bless and Curse were promoted as these big game-changing skills which could alter terrain and change how the game plays. Unfortunately in the current state, only Curse sees significant use. Bless is not powerful enough to be worth the cost of a Source Point. This is because it only upgrades surfaces by one level (from cursed to normal or normal to blessed), and for only 2 turns. Meanwhile, enemies get to curse all day and all night long. Enemies cast curse directly, they cast curse with their Void Glide movement skill, and can even bleed curse, all for free. Bless cannot fulfill its main use of clearing cursed surfaces like that, never mind actually being used to create blessed surfaces for the player's use.
Suggested Change: Remove the Source Point cost for Bless completely. If Larian actually intends Bless to be used regularly in the game as part of combat, that has to be done. Any buffs in other areas will not make Bless more attractive because of the Souce Point cost.

If Larian finds it necessary to compensate for that buff, they could increase the AP cost to 2 and possibly increase the cooldown to 3-4 turns. Honestly I could also make an argument for having the Memory cost of Blessed removed, to make it match Source Vision and Source Vampirism, but I'd settle for just ditching the Source Point cost.

EDIT: Oh! How about this as well: Characters under the effects of the Bless status effect bleed Bless when hit. That has a nice symmetry with void creatures bleeding Curse, and provides an incentive to use Bless on a person instead of a surface.



[Warfare] Provoke/Taunt needs major changes
Why? - When a target has no physical armor, there are many other status effects which are better to use on it. Taunt being blocked makes the skill useless in most situations. The patch note from three weeks ago, "Improved Taunting in favour of the Taunter", ignored the main problem.
Suggested Change: This is admittedly tricky. Probably just removing the physical armor save could be an issue. One change at least should be that Taunted characters can only use their normal attack, they are effectively muted and can't use skills, scrolls or potions. Another change might be to adjust it from a short-range caster-centered AoE to a long-range single-target.
EDIT: Maybe combine both those changes... but that still might be annoying if Taunt can penetrate Physical armor. So... wqhat if Taunt lasts for 1 turn, but afterwards, the person is immune from Taunt for the next 2 turns?



[Sebille][Sourcery] Break the Shackles should also remove Silence.
Why? - Seriously, this skill is already extremely situational (if not outright underpowered), given the many ways to remove other status effects. If you make Sebille a mage, Silence is the single biggest crippling spell, and this source point skill entirely based around removing debuffs can't even remove that. You're also very unlikely to be under more than a couple of these status effects at once, further limiting its utility.
Suggested Change: Removes Silence, and possibly Taunted. If this was early in development, I'd also suggest that this could remove hard CC like Stunned and Frozen, but adding code in that only applies if the character is Sebille could be troublesome, so never mind.


[Red Prince][Sourcery] Demonic Stare should also steal Physical Armor
Why? - There are a lot of skills which only restore one type of armor. I can carry scrolls to restore armor. This is a Source skill, if I spend a Source Point, it should be more impressive. No other skill restores BOTH physical and magical armor at once. This skill, by only boosting Magical armor, is much less useful if Red Prince is a mage.
Suggested Change: Maybe reduce the amount of armor it steals, but change it so it steals an equal amount of both armors, so it's useful for more builds and more unique.


[Lhose][Sourcery] Maddening Song should only affect enemies and last 2 turns.
Why? - It's already a cut-rate Charm which still allows enemies to attack your team, it requires a Source point AND lasts only one turn. It's already a very poor and situational use of a Source Point, it doesn't need the additional downside of affecting allies as well. It should also get buffed to two turns.
Suggested Change: The skill should only affect enemies in the radius and be buffed to two turns.


[Dwarf] Lower Petrifying Touch AP cost to 1
Why? Petrifying Touch is not a very powerful skill. It requires magic armor to be stripped, it lasts only one turn, it does poor damage, and it is a melee range skill. Contrast that with the Medusa Head Polymorph skill and its Petrifying Gaze. You get a Petrifying aura, and a skill with a very large radius which does Earth damage to all enemies with petrification. Additionally, the 2 AP cost means that it is less attractive to use. There are a lot of things one can do with 2 AP, most of which would be better choices. If it cost 1 AP that would bring it in line with other racial skills.
Suggested Change: Lower Petrifying Touch's AP cost to 1 AND Remove the damage component. The damage is slight and not the most important thing. Without the damage, it can now be used as a status-effect remover on your teammates, a discount Cryogenic Stasis.


[Human] Improve scaling of Encourage
Why? - It starts out the same as Encourage from D:OS 1 - +1 to 4 attributes. That's already automatically worse than D:OS 1 because one attribute point is worth 25% as much (you start out with 10 instead of 5 and gain 2 per level instead of 0.5).
Suggested Change: Encourage should gain +1 to the 4 attributes every 5 levels (5, 10, 15, 20, etc...). so at level 20, it would be +5 to each. That will keep it much more relevant throughout the game.


Flurry and All In should get a damage boost
Why? - Pretty much no one uses them because they're so AP-inefficient. They do +25% damage for the cost of +50% AP. The way the tooltip for Flurry works makes it even less attractive to use. The tooltip for Flurry says it does X damage 3 times, which makes it a little more inconvenient for its purpose of trying to determine whether it has a reasonable chance of finishing an enemy off.

EDIT: There is the complication that enemies love to use All In and a damage boost there could be troublesome. Hmmm... It still might be worth it just to make it more useful for players, though.

Suggested Change: Boost the damage of Flurry and All In by at least another 15%, up to a maximum of an additional +25%. Consider changing Flurry's tooltip to say "the total amount of damage from all three attacks will be X-X damage).


[Geomancy][Hydrosophist] Improve scaling of Mend Metal and Soothing Cold
Why? - They scale very poorly in comparison to the damage enemies can do. At level 20, with 10 in the appropriate school, they restore 560 armor for 3 turns. That sounds like a lot, but by that time a single enemy can strip more than that amount of armor in a single attack.
Suggested Change: The number might need tweaking, but maybe multiply the boost by 2.5? That would also require boosting Armor of Frost and Fortify as well, though, because they are single-target only.


[Aerothurge] Improve duration of Favourable Wind skill
Why? - It's not a very powerful skill, and that's fine, but to justify memorizing it over other skills, it could be better.
Suggested Change: Increase the duration to 5 or 6 turns (and boost the cooldown period of 5 turns by 1-2 turns). This doesn't increase its power, but because it lasts longer it is more attractive to use.


[Aerothurge] Fix line of sight requirement for Netherswap
Why? - It's a teleportation skill, magically and instantaneously moving two targets by the use of magic. It doesn't seem to make sense that there must be a clear line of sight between both targets with no obstructions.
Suggested Change: The caster requires a clear line of sight to both, that is sufficient.


[Pyrokinetic][Polymorph] Buff Bleed Fire
Why? - It's extremely underwhelming. Enemies bleeding fire is rarely, if not never, something which has a lot of use. It doesn't even do damage other than from the surface.
Suggested Change: Bleed Fire should set Bleed and Burning unless resisted by physical and magical armor respectively.


[Geomancer][Warfare] Oily Carapace should set Immune to Slow
Why? - Well, just from the description alone, it pretty much screams "use this skill after an enemy launches a big oil attack on your feet. This restores your armor, but still leaves you slowed, and almost nothing removes Slow. (I can only think of Haste, which seems like very few buffs considering that slow ignores armor.)
Suggested Change: Remove Slowed status and set Immune to Slow for 1-2 turns (only if you actually absorb some oil).


[Hydrosophist][Polymorph] Healing Tears should work on walking near to allies as well.
Why? - Right now it seems to ONLY work when allies are the ones doing the walking. It should also work when the caster is the one moving to the allies. This seems to be a strange quirk with a lot of aura-type skills.
Suggested Change: Change it so that the healing affects allies once they enter the radius regardless of who was the one who actually moved into the radius.


[Hydrosophist][Scoundrel] Increase casting range of Vampiric Hunger
Why? - It can be cast on allies, but the range is 2 meters. It seems like it should either be a self-buff only, or have a larger casting range.
Suggested Change: Increase the casting range to 5 meters.


[Scoundrel] Boost Gag Order's power/AP
Why? - Compare and contrast to Chloroform, another Scoundrel skill.
Chloroform (Scoundrel 1) strips magic armor and applies Sleeping (hard CC) to targets without MA for one turn at a range of 13 meters. It costs 1 AP to use. Gag order (Scoundrel 2) strips magic armor and applies Silenced (soft CC) to targets without MA for one turn at a range of 3 meters. It costs 3 AP to use.

At level 9:
Chloroform strips 53-59 MA.
Gag Order strips 57-64 MA. (An average increase of 8% over Chloroform, for 200% more AP.)

At level 19:
Chloroform strips 630-696 MA.
Gag Order strips 668-701 MA. (An average increase of 3.5% percent over Chloroform, for 200% more AP.)

In every single aspect, range, effect, Scoundrel point investment needed, and AP cost, Chloroform is vastly superior, for only slightly less damage.

Suggested Change:
Suggestions: Either A) Reduce Gag Order's AP cost from 3 to 1 (not to 2, to 1). -OR-
B) Triple the power of Chloroform for Gag Order to match the AP cost.

At level 9:
OLD Gag Order strips 57-64 MA.
NEW Gag Order strips 159-177 MA.

At level 19:
OLD Gag Order strips 668-701 MA.
NEW Gag Order strips 1890-2088 MA.

One other option which technically would be bringing them into balance would be to nerf Chloroform up to 2 AP and buff Gag Order down to 2 AP. But I don't like that idea.



[Aerothurge][Scoundrel] Buff Smoke Cloud
Why? - 2 AP and a 5 turn cooldown is a lot to ask for a skill which does no damage, lasts for one turn, and can obstruct your teammates view. It could have a niche use for stealth, sneaking through busy areas if it could be cast without breaking sneak or invisibility as well.
Suggested Change: Reduce the AP cost from 2 to 1, reduce the cooldown from 5 turns to 2 or 3. This will make it much more useful in combat for its role of providing cover for the Rogue so they can't be targeted as easily. Allow it to be cast while sneaking or invisible. This will allow it to get a character to hide from patrols for a few seconds.


[Aerothurge][Scoundrel][Sourcery] Buff Blessed Smoke Cloud
Why? - Great, it turns you invisible, BUT the skill only has a 3 meter radius, it only lasts for 1 turn, and it costs 2 memory slots AND 2 source points? Invisibility is removed by almost everything, and it doesn't give bonuses to attacking. This skill seems overpriced and underpowered.
Suggested Change: Instead of boosting the power, reduce the Memory and Source point cost by 1.


[Huntsman] Boost Assassinate's bonus
Why? - Testing with my Finesse character, using Delorus's bow.
Base damage is 407-497.
Assassinate Damage is 468-572. (+15%)
Assassinate Damage while sneaking ranged between... 718 and 856 over 10 attacks.

So maybe the multiplier when sneaking is something like 1.75x a normal attack, which would give a range between 712-870 for 3 AP. My number is no doubt off, but this is a close enough guesstimate for our purposes. That's less than the 814-994 you would get for 2 normal attacks at 4 AP, but 1.75 damage for 1.5 times the AP is a good deal. But wait, we're forgetting the AP cost of Sneaking. In combat, with the 4 AP cost of Sneaking to prepare the attack, now you are doing 1.75x damage of a normal attack for 3.5x the AP cost.

So without sneaking, you're paying +50% extra AP to gain +15% extra damage. That is not remotely worthwhile. With Sneaking, it's still underpowered. With the cost of Sneak at 4 AP, this makes Assassinate only useful to open combat, making the AP cost irrelevant. Even if Sneak was reduced to 2 AP, you would still be spending 5 AP to get the damage of 4 AP worth of attacks.
Suggested Change: Boost Assassinate's bonus from +15% to +50% (making this the bow equivilant of "All In") and probably eliminate or greatly reduce the bonus for sneaking.


[Aerothurge] Why does Apportation exist?
Why? - This skill sucks all the items on the ground nearby into your inventory. That's it. This seems to be a clear indication of a developer needing to meet a quota for "Aerothurge skills", but not having enough ideas. This skill is not even available until level 16, at which point you should have better options to use that Memory Slot for, such as every other skill in the entire game.
Suggested Change: Two ideas:
1) The easy, less work one would be to reduce the memory cost of Apporation from 1 to 0. As in this skill does not cost any Memory at all. Because it's really, really, REALLY not worth a memory slot in combat. It doesn't even have a combat use.

2) Delete Apportation and replace with a better skill. Here's one idea for free:
Wind Shear - A line-shaped AoE effect which does moderate air damage to all targets in the line and tries to set Knocked Down (resisted by Magic Armor). AP Cost: 3, Source Point Cost: 0, Cooldown: 5 turns.

Boom, now you have another level 16 skill which actually is worth using.



[Polymorph] Spread Your Wings should make you Floating and immune from ground surfaces
Why? - Floating above surfaces is basically HALF the benefit of the skill. It's annoying that you land at the conclusion of the leap or movement and take damage. And no, I do not care that the animation shows you touching down. You should be immune to surfaces regardless of what the animation shows.
Suggested Change: You don't have to change the animation, just change the code so you're still considered floating and don't take damage at the end of your movement from landing.
EDIT: Alexstrasza suggests that you flap your wings to create a circle of cleared terrain at the point of landing, which is an interesting idea.



[Huntsman] Farsight just underwhelming.
Why? - A Source point and 2 Memory slots feels a lot to ask for just three turns of +2 range. Usually you can get more than enough with high ground in the area and spending those slots onto movement skills.
Suggested Change: Boost the duration to 4 or 5 turns.


[Polymorph] [Element][Sourcery] Boost all [Element] Skin skills
Why? - For requiring a Source point, and also giving you a weakness (even if it is only 30%), these skills are really underwhelming.
Suggested Change: The whole point is the immunity, so boost the duration from 2 turns to 3 or 4 turns. That would be one thing you could do.


Addressing them in order:

Bless is super hard to balance. A lot of issues is that players forget that it can also be casted on a character, so works well for support characters to use. Casting it on a duel wielder for example adds another 10% to dodge, as if you had ten ranks in it. Add on leadership (20%), Parry Master (10%), and 10 ranks in dual wielding, and half of the attacks on you will miss, not even adding weapon bonuses, and this boosts resistances even more. Bless is also used if utilized -before- enemies curse surfaces (I.E.), your character is in a fire surface, bless it rather than waiting around for the enemies to curse it. I believe blessed surfaces are as difficult to stop as cursed ones, so why not utilize it? Most favor quick defeat of high damage over slower strats, but bless definitely helps a single character survive a difficult fight, and I think the 1 AP, 1 Source Point is probably where it has to be.

Taunt's another tough one. I think it would be good if its duration lasted a round longer and/or have greater range, but it shouldn't ignore physical armor. That said, I have used it when out of other CC to save weaker companions (Works well with a charge or teleport skill in desperation moments).

I disagree on buffing the Sebille one. It has no AP cost and works exceptionally well against slow, which you suffer a lot. You can use the pyramids to practically teleport to recharge source if you need to from Siv's in Act 2 (And I believe every act following has a place), so ideally, there's no reason to be saving source.

Same for the Red Prince, it works well in conjunction if you are trying to literally obliterate an enemy's magic armor in a single turn (Rogue glass cannon for example). It might be useless for some builds of him, but others will profit.

Lohse's is actually extremely useful in certain fights, and was the key of me winning one, as enemies will attack those who are maddened even if they weren't the ones charmed.

Encourage I think is fine as is. It does scale slightly as the game goes on and I use it all the time, every fight, personally.

I used petrification a lot in the beginning, and use when other CC options are out.

Will give the others comments in a different post so this one isn't too long.


Posted By: Stabbey Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 14/11/17 04:11 AM
EDIT: I will acknowledge that I am probably far too conservative in my use of Source skills. That's likely because on my first playthrough, I wasn't sure what to expect. That also ties into "Gamer's Hoarding Syndrome", where games refuse to use items which could help, in case they need them later.


Originally Posted by Sergey Butsenov

Those cooldowns designed to force scroll-using.


I don't understand. I don't understand what scrolls a long cooldown on Tornado is supposed to force, I don't understand why ONLY Tornado has a long cooldown to force scroll usage, and I don't understand why it's desirable to force scroll usage (especially for only this one spell).

Originally Posted by Zoranus

Bless is super hard to balance. A lot of issues is that players forget that it can also be casted on a character, so works well for support characters to use. Casting it on a duel wielder for example adds another 10% to dodge, as if you had ten ranks in it. Add on leadership (20%), Parry Master (10%), and 10 ranks in dual wielding, and half of the attacks on you will miss, not even adding weapon bonuses, and this boosts resistances even more. Bless is also used if utilized -before- enemies curse surfaces (I.E.), your character is in a fire surface, bless it rather than waiting around for the enemies to curse it. I believe blessed surfaces are as difficult to stop as cursed ones, so why not utilize it? Most favor quick defeat of high damage over slower strats, but bless definitely helps a single character survive a difficult fight, and I think the 1 AP, 1 Source Point is probably where it has to be.


The dodge might be nice, but you can get up to 50% dodge even without Bless, and dodge doesn't work against magic attacks. In terms of resistances, scrolls of Armor are just as effective without the SP cost.

Pre-emptive use of Bless is ineffective. Bless lasts for 2 turns at most and ENEMIES CURSE FOR FREE. Hitting something twice turns your blessed surface into a curse one. It's a waste of an SP.

Blessed surfaces are NOT anywhere close to as as difficult to stop as a cursed surface, because ENEMIES CURSE FOR FREE. That's the biggest problem with the Source point cost of Bless.

The source point for Bless kills it, and kills the counterplay to cursed surfaces, which enemies create FOR FREE, and NO other buffs will make it useful in my opinion. Fine as it is? I do not agree at all.


Quote
I disagree on buffing the Sebille one. It has no AP cost and works exceptionally well against slow, which you suffer a lot. You can use the pyramids to practically teleport to recharge source if you need to from Siv's in Act 2 (And I believe every act following has a place), so ideally, there's no reason to be saving source.


None of this is a reply to what I wrote or why I wrote it.

I was talking about how this skill does not remove Silence. Silence is a complete shutdown skill for a mage, and having Sebille's big unique skill be utterly useless for a mage is a tremendous oversight. I don't care about the AP cost. It's not relevant at all to what I was talking about.

In practical terms, you can't use the teleporter pyramids in battle, and even if you could, it would kill the flow.

There also isn't any Source fountain in Act 3 (the one at the very end of the act is not meaningfully useful during Act 3) and the one in Act 4 is hidden and requires several puzzles and a lot of exploration to access, and even on subsequent playthroughs, it is right next to a tough boss fight.


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Encourage I think is fine as is. It does scale slightly as the game goes on and I use it all the time, every fight, personally.


It really doesn't scale very well or very quickly. Might as well grab Pyrokinetic 1 and Peace of Mind, which has the additional bonus of preventing or removing some status effects. It's not as if I'm asking for a huge boost, just +1 every 5 levels.



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I used petrification a lot in the beginning, and use when other CC options are out.


Eh, maybe I'd use it more if I had a magic-focused dwarf instead of physical, so this might be my bias for that character. Still they could probably lose the damage component regardless.
Posted By: sfzrx Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 14/11/17 05:36 AM
Problem with bless is that they made blessed smoke give invisibility, this is a problem because you only need one smoke to invis the entire squad, and with invis being extremely powerful in it's current state, you can pretty much chain invis with chameleon cloak and multiple blessed smoke cover if bless costs no source and just make fights simpler and more dull than they should.

I personally feel like they shouldn't have given blessed smoke invisibility, my suggestion would be to change blessed smoke bonus to something else entirely, perhaps in a future enhanced edition, increase bless's cooldown and remove the source cost.

The geomancer wall is also very underwhelming, I was expecting a wall that blocks line of sight and movement like the ice wall in the first game, but instead the new wall can be damaged and doesn't even block line of sight.

Posted By: Stabbey Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 14/11/17 01:40 PM
Originally Posted by sfzrx
Problem with bless is that they made blessed smoke give invisibility, this is a problem because you only need one smoke to invis the entire squad, and with invis being extremely powerful in it's current state, you can pretty much chain invis with chameleon cloak and multiple blessed smoke cover if bless costs no source and just make fights simpler and more dull than they should.


Perhaps. My conviction on Blessed Smoke cloud is weaker than that of other skills. I didn't really use this one, and in fact I actually stopped using Chameleon Cloak fairly early on as well. Someone who is trying gimmicky runs with solo characters might have a better use for such things.

Posted By: sfzrx Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 14/11/17 04:05 PM
I think it's a bit too op personally, especially with the new round robin turn system, although I haven't really played 4 man runs but I can imagine the scenario, say you have a level 13 team doing Aetera, normally the team will get one shot on the first turn, but if you have a 47 initiative summoner who invested in pure wits stat and mostly summoning, you can group up all members before the fight, the summoner can initiate combat and act before Aetera, then he can invis the entire team before Aetera can do anything to them, then by delaying turns, you'll get 5 chained turns together and finish off Aetera and everything else before the enemies get a single action.

Players having access to chameleon cloak alone already seems very powerful, blessed smoke is really overkill and not needed in the game imo. On the other hand, none of the other blessed surfaces seems too useful, hell undead players even take damage standing in most of the blessed surfaces.
Posted By: Zoranus Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 14/11/17 04:05 PM
Originally Posted by Stabbey
EDIT: I will acknowledge that I am probably far too conservative in my use of Source skills. That's likely because on my first playthrough, I wasn't sure what to expect. That also ties into "Gamer's Hoarding Syndrome", where games refuse to use items which could help, in case they need them later.


Originally Posted by Sergey Butsenov

Those cooldowns designed to force scroll-using.


I don't understand. I don't understand what scrolls a long cooldown on Tornado is supposed to force, I don't understand why ONLY Tornado has a long cooldown to force scroll usage, and I don't understand why it's desirable to force scroll usage (especially for only this one spell).

Originally Posted by Zoranus

Bless is super hard to balance. A lot of issues is that players forget that it can also be casted on a character, so works well for support characters to use. Casting it on a duel wielder for example adds another 10% to dodge, as if you had ten ranks in it. Add on leadership (20%), Parry Master (10%), and 10 ranks in dual wielding, and half of the attacks on you will miss, not even adding weapon bonuses, and this boosts resistances even more. Bless is also used if utilized -before- enemies curse surfaces (I.E.), your character is in a fire surface, bless it rather than waiting around for the enemies to curse it. I believe blessed surfaces are as difficult to stop as cursed ones, so why not utilize it? Most favor quick defeat of high damage over slower strats, but bless definitely helps a single character survive a difficult fight, and I think the 1 AP, 1 Source Point is probably where it has to be.


The dodge might be nice, but you can get up to 50% dodge even without Bless, and dodge doesn't work against magic attacks. In terms of resistances, scrolls of Armor are just as effective without the SP cost.

Pre-emptive use of Bless is ineffective. Bless lasts for 2 turns at most and ENEMIES CURSE FOR FREE. Hitting something twice turns your blessed surface into a curse one. It's a waste of an SP.

Blessed surfaces are NOT anywhere close to as as difficult to stop as a cursed surface, because ENEMIES CURSE FOR FREE. That's the biggest problem with the Source point cost of Bless.

The source point for Bless kills it, and kills the counterplay to cursed surfaces, which enemies create FOR FREE, and NO other buffs will make it useful in my opinion. Fine as it is? I do not agree at all.


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I disagree on buffing the Sebille one. It has no AP cost and works exceptionally well against slow, which you suffer a lot. You can use the pyramids to practically teleport to recharge source if you need to from Siv's in Act 2 (And I believe every act following has a place), so ideally, there's no reason to be saving source.


None of this is a reply to what I wrote or why I wrote it.

I was talking about how this skill does not remove Silence. Silence is a complete shutdown skill for a mage, and having Sebille's big unique skill be utterly useless for a mage is a tremendous oversight. I don't care about the AP cost. It's not relevant at all to what I was talking about.

In practical terms, you can't use the teleporter pyramids in battle, and even if you could, it would kill the flow.

There also isn't any Source fountain in Act 3 (the one at the very end of the act is not meaningfully useful during Act 3) and the one in Act 4 is hidden and requires several puzzles and a lot of exploration to access, and even on subsequent playthroughs, it is right next to a tough boss fight.


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Encourage I think is fine as is. It does scale slightly as the game goes on and I use it all the time, every fight, personally.


It really doesn't scale very well or very quickly. Might as well grab Pyrokinetic 1 and Peace of Mind, which has the additional bonus of preventing or removing some status effects. It's not as if I'm asking for a huge boost, just +1 every 5 levels.



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I used petrification a lot in the beginning, and use when other CC options are out.


Eh, maybe I'd use it more if I had a magic-focused dwarf instead of physical, so this might be my bias for that character. Still they could probably lose the damage component regardless.


On Bless, yes, you do get it from other sources. It doesn't dodge magic but the person I want to cast it on is in melee distance, so that's the concern, and it gives resistance bonuses to magic.

Enemies also don't cast curse for free, as it takes AP away. Let them, I say, I've used bless as counterplay to it myself and its sometimes viable to do so. As for the Pyramids, I was more talking post-battle, though you can actually use them during, and I have before on a more difficult fight.

On Sebille, the issue is only there if you use her as a mage (Really fits better in a rogue or variation anyway), and that would be too OP, completely nullifying something rather severe for practically no action cost (Shocked/Crippled/Slow are less severe in turn). You also don't run into silence that much.

Act 3 is short enough that source vampirism on ghosts works just as well. Goody-Two shoes can run to the source fountain pretty quickly. Same for Act 4.

Encourage works well with elven party members using flesh sacrifice as it counters the penalty. I use it in tandem with things like clear mind. 5% bonus, and a lot more on health, can really make the difference, and its useful to use when you have 1 AP left anyway.

We're going to disagree still I reckon, I personally don't value source points as high as others do, I think people should take the advantage that they can use and recharge them pretty easily when needed. I think it comes down to how you play the game.

SAme with Apportation, even. Telekinis uses would love it. Non Telekinis users might scratch their head on why its such a late skill.

I saw a post on Phoenix Dive, I've -never- burned myself with it unless causing an explosion with oil.


Posted By: sfzrx Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 14/11/17 04:12 PM
http://larian.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=72964&Number=605034#Post605034

I believe this was the reason why phoenix dive was changed, phoenix dive used to create fire surfaces beneath the players and give the player fire immunity, now the fire surface surrounds the player, basically they made it so mages can't use phoenix dive as an elemental affinity starter, especially with the addition of super nova, they didn't want people to just phoenix dive and unload pyro skills so easily without damaging themselves.
Posted By: Stabbey Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 14/11/17 08:53 PM


Originally Posted by sfzrx
I think it's a bit too op personally, especially with the new round robin turn system, although I haven't really played 4 man runs but I can imagine the scenario, say you have a level 13 team doing Aetera, normally the team will get one shot on the first turn, but if you have a 47 initiative summoner who invested in pure wits stat and mostly summoning, you can group up all members before the fight, the summoner can initiate combat and act before Aetera, then he can invis the entire team before Aetera can do anything to them, then by delaying turns, you'll get 5 chained turns together and finish off Aetera and everything else before the enemies get a single action.

Players having access to chameleon cloak alone already seems very powerful, blessed smoke is really overkill and not needed in the game imo. On the other hand, none of the other blessed surfaces seems too useful, hell undead players even take damage standing in most of the blessed surfaces.


It's fine that you enjoy making the most crazy-broken min-maxed characters possible and playing them where the odds are the highest against them just do you can say how easy the game is when making crazy-broken min-maxed characters.

But a lot of players (I'd go so far as to say most players) probably don't do that. Trying to balance the game to be a challenge for the min-maxers would probably be very frustrating for many players.


Originally Posted by Zoranus
Enemies also don't cast curse for free, as it takes AP away. Let them, I say, I've used bless as counterplay to it myself and its sometimes viable to do so. As for the Pyramids, I was more talking post-battle, though you can actually use them during, and I have before on a more difficult fight.


FREE in this case means that they get to curse as much as they want without spending Source points (and a lot of enemies get to use Source skills pretty freely anyway). The AP cost of enemies using Curse is irrelevant because AP is free each turn.

Many regular enemies can cast the spell Curse or Cursed Fireball (and such skills) without first using Source Vampirism on you. They get to curse surfaces by using Void Glide, and also, they get to curse for free WHEN YOU HIT THEM. they bleed Curse onto surfaces Players do not get ANY of those advantages. So I say again: Enemies get to Curse for FREE.

I am open to changing my mind and position on many things. The idea that Bless shouldn't cost a Source Point is not one of them.


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On Sebille, the issue is only there if you use her as a mage (Really fits better in a rogue or variation anyway), and that would be too OP, completely nullifying something rather severe for practically no action cost (Shocked/Crippled/Slow are less severe in turn). You also don't run into silence that much.


There is nothing wrong at all with using Sebille as a mage. "Build characters how you want", remember? You can create an origin as any preset and change them after recruitment to any preset and customize them how you want. So "it's your fault for using Sebille like a mage" makes no sense at all.

The entire f**king point of Break the Shackles existing at all is to remove severe status effects. It removes Slowed, Crippled, Chilled, Atrophy, Shackles of Pain (and more), all status effects which are big trouble for a melee character, even though many of them can be dealt with in other ways, but the moment I suggest that it also remove the one status effect that totally screws over a mage, THAT would be "too OP"? That's nonsense. It costs a Source Point.


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We're going to disagree still I reckon, I personally don't value source points as high as others do, I think people should take the advantage that they can use and recharge them pretty easily when needed. I think it comes down to how you play the game.


Perhaps I don't use Source points enough. That might be a flaw in my playstyle. It's a result of combining uncertainty about what is to come with the usual hoarding of power which gamers tend to do.

"Playing a goody two shoes" as you say (I can practically see the sneer on your face), is not a flaw in playstyle, it is a choice, there is nothing wrong with that in a role-playing game.


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SAme with Apportation, even. Telekinis uses would love it. Non Telekinis users might scratch their head on why its such a late skill.


Telekinesis builds are straight-up gimmicks for people who have far too much patience and too much time on their hands. Apportation is straight up useless for 99% of players. I think making a skill which would more useful for the 99% of builds which are not Telekinesis builds might be a better idea. But I'm just dumb like that.
Posted By: sfzrx Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 14/11/17 09:18 PM
It's true that I am a min-max player, and the scenario I described is very specific, but the devs have to take in account of that when trying to balance a game, tactician is suppose to be hard and the game shouldn't feel "broken" when min-max players push it, cheese strats shouldn't be allowed in the first place. In this case, changing bless have to take in account of blessed smoke invis all 4 members, that's why I think blessed smoke should be changed, it's just a broken mechanic like the other 3 source abilities.

If you look at the post in my previous reply you'll see that most of the broken stuff in there are nerfed directly or indirectly, and I think that's what the beta is for, it's just that these new skills and lonewolf weren't in the beta, so the game isn't super balanced atm, might have to wait for some kind of enhanced edition like the first game.
Posted By: Stabbey Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 15/11/17 08:22 PM
[Hydrosophist] Healing Ritual targeting is bizarre and confusing
Why? - Healing Ritual works in a really strange manner. It goes from the caster to the target, then towards the next-closest ally, then to the next-closest ally until it runs out of allies. Note that I said "towards" the next closest ally.

I used it on a case where my Rogue and my Knight were on either side of an enemy. I targeted my Knight. Healing Ritual hit my Knight, then headed for my Rogue. But it didn't hit my Rogue. Instead, it hit the enemy who was between the Knight and Rogue, healing them, then it bounced back and hit my casters up on the platform where they were.

Needless to say, it's not especially intuitive that that sort of thing would happen. I also don't really see any good way for the player to know who to target, there's no easy way to predict where the energy will bounce to, or what kind of LoS I need between the bounce targets to be sure where it'll hit.

Needless to say, that's pretty annoying, especially the "healing an enemy when I'm trying to heal an ally" part. This seems to be yet another annoying instance of Larian taking shortcuts with the code by relying on "this magic works like someone walks in a straight line between the targets. Even though it's magic, it's totally impossible to have it work if there's a person in the way".

Suggested Change: Improve the targeting of Healing Ritual. It really shouldn't be the case where I have to play guessing games and do trigonometry to figure out if the spell will actually do what it's supposed to do.


****

Yes, balance should be aimed for, but the game has a wide range of players who have a wide range of skill levels, and it is impossible to please everyone.

The game has a lot of freedom, a lot of skills, and a lot of ways to approach a fight, and it's difficult to balance by definition.

At a certain point, there's a line which gets crossed where a nerf goes past punishing cheesers and starts punishing regular players. That's when I think nerfs go too far.

The clearest example of that is Sneak. People in EA busily exploited Sneak a lot to cheese combat, then complained about how OP Sneak was. The result was that in the release version, Sneak costs 4 AP in combat, and is therefore essentially worthless. Sneak is no longer used by players. It was overnerfed.
Posted By: sfzrx Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 15/11/17 10:12 PM
Sneak is still very powerful but it's just that most people used it for damage and doesn't realize how broken it is if you use it for other purposes, I'll explain in your other post.
Posted By: TheStigma Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 21/11/17 05:42 PM
Originally Posted by Stabbey
What makes Taunt more complicated though, is that it acts like soft CC on enemies, but hard CC on PC's, because it removes control from your character.


I think the real problem here is how taunt works on PCs in the first place. Losing control of your character is far more punishing than taunt is supposed to be. Just mirroring exactly what happens to taunted NPCs isn't fair (ie. the AI taking control with a modified algorithm).

The solution seems pretty simple to me:
Instead of losing control taunted PCs gain a debuff that heftily reduces all damage done to all targets except the taunter (say -75% for example just to illustrate).
That would be a major hinderance and actually give you a good reason to "give in" to the taunt without losing control. Optionally, maybe +10% dmg to taunter also.

If you want to make it even more punishing and remove most of your ability to ignore the problem by spending the time supporting your team (with buffing, healing ect.) rather than attacking you could also make all characters except for the taunter untargetable for the duration. (this still leaves some loopholes with AoE abilities, but would still be very punishing).

In either case I think it would acomplish the goal of taunt - which is more to discourage a character from harming your friends moreso than actually force them to attack you.

You could argue that this could be mirrored for the effect on NPCs too to make it consistent. As long as the AI is capable of weighing the now drastically altered damage it can do to the possible targets it should normally choose to attack the taunter - and if it doesn't then you just mitigated a lot of the incoming damage anyway...

TLDR: How taunt works in general could use an overhaul along with it not being resisted by armor.

-Stigma
Posted By: Stabbey Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 21/11/17 07:56 PM
I like that idea for Taunt. That version, leaving players in control, but giving them a debuff like that could allow it to pass physical armor without being crippling to players.
Posted By: MTaur Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 26/11/17 10:31 PM
Yeah, I kind of like Stigma's suggestion. It could also lower hit chance by 10-25%. -50% damage to other targets would probably be enough if it lowers hit chance.
Posted By: muz Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 01/12/17 08:19 PM
If you are trying to break the game, then don't complain when it's broken.

That said, I do think summoner is a problematic skill because it's all or nothing, because it interacts with basically nothing else. The only way to buff is to buff summoner level, and when you do, you end up with crazy powerful summons.

It seems to me that summoner should be a support skill set. Make the fire slug, oily blobs, etc. scale with pyro and geo abilities and summoner ability -- and make all summons spells require points in summoner. Thus, it will be helpful for elemental mages to get summoner points if they want to use those spells.

Meanwhile, summoner can focus on things like totems and traps, both of which should interact with attributes like INT or STR.
Posted By: Draco359 Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 25/06/18 12:18 PM
I really hate the fact that we have taunt mechanic in this game-I wish they replaced the taunt mechanic with a feint mechanic where you can trick enemies to attack a specific target. Also here is an ideea for a talent - Menacing - you look really scary and people want to kill you first because you look really dangerous.

I just did the arena fight recently with the changes to taunt......absolutely horrible my 1st atempt was.
Posted By: sam381 Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 25/06/18 09:06 PM
I agree that Bless should go back to being innate and no source point (mostly for using outside of combat to clear cursed surfaces). If people think granting inviso on clouds, maybe remove that or make it 2 AP. But I never used that tactic so can't say if it is overpowered but 1 or 2 AP should be fine.

I agree gag order and chloroform are inconsistent, since gag order applies silence (soft cc) it should be the level 1 skill, and chloroform should be the higher level spell with sleep (harder cc, but not really hard since unlike knockdown/stun if sleeping opponent gets hit even by splash damage he is awakened and doesn't lose turn). Then 1 and 2 AP would be appropriate, depending on how much magic damage they do. 3 AP seems high, unless it actually removed all magic armor.

From another thread, 'spread your wings' was discussed and I pointed out that the description and animation imply that after flight you do 'touch down' and this is intended and actually preferable because without touching down 'elemental affinity' would become useless with this active.

My recommendation to those who don't like current behavior to stop landing on surfaces you don't like. Since you can fly anywhere for 1 AP over and over, and walking you hover over surfaces, one could say it is overpowered (like most polymorph skill seem to be). Although in general I believe in making other things better rather than nerfing anything.
Posted By: MrJokers Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 15/07/18 10:29 AM
[Aerothurge] Why does Apportation exist?
Why? - This skill sucks all the items on the ground nearby into your inventory. That's it. This seems to be a clear indication of a developer needing to meet a quota for "Aerothurge skills", but not having enough ideas. This skill is not even available until level 16, at which point you should have better options to use that Memory Slot for, such as every other skill in the entire game.
Suggested Change: Two ideas:
1) The easy, less work one would be to reduce the memory cost of Apporation from 1 to 0. As in this skill does not cost any Memory at all. Because it's really, really, REALLY not worth a memory slot in combat. It doesn't even have a combat use.

2) Delete Apportation and replace with a better skill. Here's one idea for free:
Wind Shear - A line-shaped AoE effect which does moderate air damage to all targets in the line and tries to set Knocked Down (resisted by Magic Armor). AP Cost: 3, Source Point Cost: 0, Cooldown: 5 turns.

Boom, now you have another level 16 skill which actually is worth using.

_______________________________________________

pretty sure i messed up the quote, my apoligies

I do like the idea, but you could make the Apportation viable in combat too, by making the apportation a set target in combat and basically disarm set target for 1 turn if he has no psy armor, just an idea.
Posted By: Stabbey Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 15/07/18 01:22 PM
You didn't mess up the quote, new users have UBB code disabled until 10 posts to make it more difficult for spammers to post malicious links.

Apportation setting Atrophy/disarm on a target would be another good move, although for a level 16 skill, it could probably set it on multiple targets in a radius.

***

A bunch of changes to skills did come down ages ago, but one was not changed. Assassinate remains an overpriced skill. Maybe I can find a better idea.

Originally Posted by Stabbey
[Huntsman] Boost Assassinate's bonus
Why? - Testing with my Finesse character, using Delorus's bow.
Base damage is 407-497.
Assassinate Damage is 468-572. (+15%)
Assassinate Damage while sneaking ranged between... 718 and 856 over 10 attacks. EDIT: Wiki says +72.5%

So maybe the multiplier when sneaking is something like 1.75x a normal attack, which would give a range between 712-870 for 3 AP. My number is no doubt off, but this is a close enough guesstimate for our purposes. EDIT: Actual number is 1.725x the damage of a normal attack.

That's less than the 814-994 you would get for 2 normal attacks at 4 AP, but 1.725 damage for 1.5 times the AP is a good deal. But wait, we're forgetting the AP cost of Sneaking. In combat, with the 4 AP cost of Sneaking to prepare the attack, now you are doing 1.725x damage of a normal attack for 3.5x the AP cost.

So without sneaking, you're paying +50% extra AP to gain +15% extra damage. That is not remotely worthwhile. With Sneaking, it's still underpowered. With the cost of Sneak at 4 AP, this makes Assassinate only useful to open combat, making the AP cost irrelevant. Even if Sneak was reduced to 2 AP, you would still be spending 5 AP to get the damage of 4 AP worth of attacks.
Suggested Change: Boost Assassinate's bonus from +15% to +50% (making this the bow equivilant of "All In") and probably eliminate or greatly reduce the bonus for sneaking.


Maybe the solution is more simple.

[Huntsman] Buff Assassinate
Suggested Change: Decrease the AP cost of Sneak from 4 to 2. Boost Assassinate's non-sneaking damage bonus from +15% to +25%, and reduce the AP cost from 3 to 2. Increase the damage bonus when sneaking from +50% to +100%, for a total of +125% damage when sneaking.

Also perhaps consider something to prevent exploiting it: Assassinate's cooldown is frozen when out of combat, until all combat between players and enemies is ended.


Why? - A bonus of +25% damage when not sneaking is a reasonable bonus for a single-target bow skill. And assuming that Sneak's AP cost is reduced to 2, the cost of Sneak + Assassinate would be 4 AP, which means that it needs to do at least 200% the damage of a normal attack to break even. So Sneak + Assassinate will do 2.25x the damage of a normal attack for the AP cost of 2x normal attacks.

The 5 Turn cooldown will help keep it in check, and it already does not stack with Guerrilla. The cooldown being frozen as long as combat is happening on the map prevents exploiting it by Assassinate->Escape->Wait->Return->Repeat.
Posted By: Raze Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 15/07/18 10:44 PM
Originally Posted by Stabbey
You didn't mess up the quote, new users have UBB code disabled until 10 posts

Actually, it is a manual process, not based on the number of posts. If I notice new accounts when reading topics I'll edit them at the time, otherwise I try to search periodically for new users with 2 or more posts.
Posted By: Stabbey Re: Stabbey's Feedback, Part 1: Skills - 20/07/18 12:45 PM
[Necromancer] Bloodsucker should not damage characters under Decaying status
Why? - The reason for this change is because it is inconsistent. Bloodsucker, when cast on an Undead, heals them just fine, even though they have no blood in the first place.

Mosquito Swarm and the passive from causing vitality damage both heal living characters just fine when under the Decaying status, it is only Bloodsucker which does NOT.

Suggested Change: Change Bloodsucker to match Mosquito Swarm, so it heals living characters instead of hurting them when under Decaying status.


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