Larian Studios
Posted By: ALexws Patch 7 new items ! - 22/02/22 10:33 AM
I think most of the items here belong to this patch.
lighting charges weapon
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lighting charges outfits/accessary
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Posted By: ALexws Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 22/02/22 10:36 AM
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momentum
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Posted By: ALexws Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 22/02/22 10:38 AM
Wrath
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Posted By: ALexws Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 22/02/22 10:41 AM
other weapons
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not sure about these 2
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Posted By: RagnarokCzD Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 22/02/22 11:02 AM
Last 3 i have seen in patch 6 ...
Not quite sure about the heavy axe tho, but i believe i did.
Blooded Greataxe is also certainly not patch 7 weapon. smile

Its worth mentioning that Temporary hitpoints from different sources now stack, rather than overwrite each other ... so my Wizard had both 10HP from Amor of Agathys and 3HP from that Lightning headpiece ...

Also, once i equipped the lightning ring, so i no longer electrocute myself those boots stopped electrocuting water and give me lighting charges. :-/ Kinda disapointing.

Speaking about lightning items ... im not quite sure what for the neckage is. laugh
Posted By: 1varangian Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 22/02/22 11:23 AM
I'm not sure what to think about these items and Lightning Charges, Reeling, Momentum, Wrath, "when below 50% hp", "when you heal a target", "when you jump", etc. There's so much of it.

It doesn't feel like D&D at all.

It feels like forcing an action RPG skin on top of D&D and we are headed towards more and more item grind with more magic items that now also come as sets. The "Lightning set" items that aren't +1 will be weak soon, so we are probably grinding for the next set right after. The set design itself is cool. It can be an entire quest searching for a set piece. But if switching out gear becomes too frequent it ruins that special thing about sets. They should be legendary items like Helm of Balduran, Cloak of Balduran etc.

I like D&D magic items because they are rare, powerful and as such they have more impact and character. Littering the world with minor magic items with weird conditional properties makes the items less impressive if that makes sense. It starts to feel like Larian are overriding the iconic D&D magic items and their flavor with their own Divinity like preference.

I really hope they would just keep cool at Larian and trust D&D and what makes it great without adding tons of nonsense and "more game" on top of it. It doesn't need that. Less is more.
Posted By: Icelyn Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 22/02/22 12:27 PM
Thanks for posting these items!😊
Posted By: JandK Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 22/02/22 01:17 PM
Great post! Thank you. Hopefully, folks will keep adding to this thread.

I can say that the Smuggler's Ring and the Blooded Great Axe aren't new to Patch 7. I'm not sure about the Merregon Halberd; I just don't remember with that one.
Posted By: RagnarokCzD Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 22/02/22 02:26 PM
Originally Posted by JandK
Great post! Thank you. Hopefully, folks will keep adding to this thread.
I would not count on that ...
If im not misstaken, in PFH we were specificaly told that they added 20 items ... and here is allready more than 20. smile

Question to items tho:
How did you like you had to choose between Trident, Bow and Staff ... and what did you choose?
Posted By: ioci Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 22/02/22 02:32 PM
Great post!! btw, I found a barbarian glove in that gnoll cave. Or I think it was looted in that cave, in a chest that has trap nearby.
Posted By: JandK Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 22/02/22 02:50 PM
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
I would not count on that ...
If im not misstaken, in PFH we were specificaly told that they added 20 items ... and here is allready more than 20. smile

Question to items tho:
How did you like you had to choose between Trident, Bow and Staff ... and what did you choose?

I don't remember exactly, but I think they said there were 24 new items? I remember thinking two dozen. Above there are at least 20-21 new items, so there may be a few more.

Oh, and ioci just mentioned another one in the post above this one. The barbarian gloves in the gnoll cave.

As for picking the Trident, bow, or staff? For me, it depends on the character I'm playing. If I'm a Str based fighter, I'll pick the Trident. If I'm a wizard or sorcerer, I'll pick the staff.
Posted By: Maximuuus Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 22/02/22 03:04 PM
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Question to items tho:
How did you like you had to choose between Trident, Bow and Staff ... and what did you choose?

These items being completely useless, underpowered and unfun due to their effects, I choose the trident... At least I can throw a blue weapon rather than a white one...
Posted By: RagnarokCzD Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 22/02/22 03:21 PM
Underpowered? O_o
I picked staff for Gale and i must say i was never more satisfied with any other weapon in his hands. laugh

Especialy since you get 1 charge per magic missile (or other multitarget spells, if you hit ... shatter is also quite good for powering up). :3

You get +1 to hit, +1 to damage (or 1d8 if you have 5 charges) ...
(The only let down here is that if you have 7 charges for example ... they all expell at once, with no futher benefit.)
And with other items to that set also +1 to armor and saving throws, and +3temporary HP (wich i mostly use to keep my Armor of Agathys up)

I never had feeling that is is anyhow weak ...

I mean what other staff do you use with your Wizard? O_o
Bless staff is also great, true ... but only once per Long Rest. laugh
Posted By: Maximuuus Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 22/02/22 04:18 PM
Should probably have written and/or...

I didn't notice that the staff worked with spells and cantrip tbh, which make it really powerfull due to other lightning items...

What OP Gale are you going to choose ?
The Magic Missile one or the lightning one ?
Posted By: Eagle Pursuit Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 22/02/22 04:24 PM
What on earth are these momentum and wrath effects anyway? It would be nice, Larian, if there was an explainer tooltip somewhere.
Posted By: Maximuuus Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 22/02/22 04:31 PM
Originally Posted by Eagle Pursuit
What on earth are these momentum and wrath effects anyway? It would be nice, Larian, if there was an explainer tooltip somewhere.

Click T to freeze the item tooltip than move your mouse on the word to open it's own tooltip.
Posted By: 1varangian Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 22/02/22 04:39 PM
Originally Posted by Eagle Pursuit
What on earth are these momentum and wrath effects anyway? It would be nice, Larian, if there was an explainer tooltip somewhere.
And why do we need so many new conditions? Most of which have very minor effects.

Playing Solasta never gave me the impression that 5e RAW is somehow too simple as a video game. But I'm thinking if these new minor conditions are just needless fluff.
Posted By: Maximuuus Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 22/02/22 04:58 PM
I hope they'll create more usual sets...

Let's say in exemple :
1 piece = +1 dexterity ST
2 pieces = +1 dexterity ST + 1 thing as a bonus action
3 piece = +1 dext ST + 1 thing as a bonus action + 1 dexterity
Posted By: ALexws Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 22/02/22 05:50 PM
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Last 3 i have seen in patch 6 ...
Not quite sure about the heavy axe tho, but i believe i did.
Blooded Greataxe is also certainly not patch 7 weapon. smile

Its worth mentioning that Temporary hitpoints from different sources now stack, rather than overwrite each other ... so my Wizard had both 10HP from Amor of Agathys and 3HP from that Lightning headpiece ...

Also, once i equipped the lightning ring, so i no longer electrocute myself those boots stopped electrocuting water and give me lighting charges. :-/ Kinda disapointing.

Speaking about lightning items ... im not quite sure what for the neckage is. laugh
the necklace can use the charges actively.
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Posted By: ALexws Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 22/02/22 05:51 PM
just found the last light charges item
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Posted By: ALexws Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 22/02/22 06:30 PM
Originally Posted by Eagle Pursuit
What on earth are these momentum and wrath effects anyway? It would be nice, Larian, if there was an explainer tooltip somewhere.

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]
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Posted By: RagnarokCzD Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 22/02/22 07:53 PM
BTW anyone find any glowes for Wizard or Sorcerer? laugh
I mean i know they technicaly can wear any Light armor and it dont block spellcasting ... but it dont feel right. :-/

Originally Posted by ALexws
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I have mixed feelings about this to be honest ...

On one hand, it makes perfect sense that "helmet" needs to be armor ...
On the other hand, this "helmet" is clearly created for Barbarian, and since it is armor it seems right to me that it should negate unarmored defense ... wich would make it quite questionable for some Barbarians. :-/

Decisions ... decisions.
Posted By: mr_planescapist Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 23/02/22 06:58 AM
I HATE these items. It feels so un-D&D, action/MMO RPG like. Reminds me of DOS2 pointless random magic items that are everywhere.
Nothing creative,just stats/effect. Play 1 hour <NEXT SET>, 1hour <NEXT SET....>

PLEASE MAKE INTERESTING MAGIC ITEMS THAT WILL LAST AND BE USEFUL THROUGHOUT THE ADVENTURE! That have a HISTORY, that feel RARE, were you need to THINK...Hmmm should i use this super interesting helmet of xxx or this shield of xxx...
Posted By: Eagle Pursuit Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 23/02/22 07:05 AM
It's funny you mention lasting through the adventure. On my barb play through, I grabbed the 2H sword from the demon guy on the nautiloid. Larian's new damage calculation says it does 3-16 damage per hit. I played through the party scene, killing the gobbie leadership, and I did not find a single comparable weapon.
Posted By: Maximuuus Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 23/02/22 07:16 AM
Originally Posted by Eagle Pursuit
It's funny you mention lasting through the adventure. On my barb play through, I grabbed the 2H sword from the demon guy on the nautiloid. Larian's new damage calculation says it does 3-16 damage per hit. I played through the party scene, killing the gobbie leadership, and I did not find a single comparable weapon.

And you won't ever change during the EA because the tutorial weapon is the only valuable 2H weapon... And the more powerfull.
Posted By: S2PHANE Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 23/02/22 07:28 AM
Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
I HATE these items. It feels so un-D&D, action/MMO RPG like. Reminds me of DOS2 pointless random magic items that are everywhere.
Nothing creative,just stats/effect. Play 1 hour <NEXT SET>, 1hour <NEXT SET....>

PLEASE MAKE INTERESTING MAGIC ITEMS THAT WILL LAST AND BE USEFUL THROUGHOUT THE ADVENTURE! That have a HISTORY, that feel RARE, were you need to THINK...Hmmm should i use this super interesting helmet of xxx or this shield of xxx...

I usually see things through negative optics when it comes to BG3 development but more items sounds like a good thing to me. We aren't talking about imba buffs, its mostly +1/+2 on the damage rolls with a few cool ''if this - then that'' effects. We are thrown into a high level adventure as it is, its the end of the world if our company doesn't act on it, it would be weird to engage high level monsters with basic gear. If anything it should make the encounters more fun if they implement unique items on the enemy NPCs.
I agree partially with you, in that the sets should be rare, not the particular items scattered about. The world is inhabited, ofcourse people won't be roaming the hostile wilds with basic weapons.
To acquire a full set of magical items we should go through trials and tribulations, hell and back, you know, an adventure. Not just walking around a random, middle of nowhere location and bumping into a full set along the way. Would be more memorable that way, actually earning your stuff.
Posted By: JandK Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 23/02/22 07:45 AM
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
And you won't ever change during the EA because the tutorial weapon is the only valuable 2H weapon... And the more powerfull.

?

The Sword of Tyr and the Sussur Greatsword both compete with the Everburn Blade, easily.
Posted By: Etruscan Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 23/02/22 07:56 AM
These remind me of items in a game like Diablo.

A hammer that deals landing damage when you jump? Really Larian? That’s some serious trolling there, almost have to hand it to them.
Posted By: RagnarokCzD Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 23/02/22 07:57 AM
Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
PLEASE MAKE INTERESTING MAGIC ITEMS THAT WILL LAST AND BE USEFUL THROUGHOUT THE ADVENTURE! That have a HISTORY, that feel RARE, were you need to THINK...Hmmm should i use this super interesting helmet of xxx or this shield of xxx...
I wonder if you are even able to provide at least one example of item you would like to see.
It would probably help much more than "xxx" laugh

Originally Posted by Maximuuus
And you won't ever change during the EA because the tutorial weapon is the only valuable 2H weapon... And the more powerfull.
Coat litteraly any regular non-magical 2H sword in poison or dip it it fire ... and you just get weapon of exactly same power. O_o

Buy/craft/loot any +1 and you are allready stronger.

I finished this gameplay with Light of Creation polearm 1d10+1 slashing (i think) + 1d6 lightning + 1d4 poison/fire ...
Sure sometimes it ends your turn prematurely by stuning you for the rest of the round ... that was unpleasant ... but except that cant say i was dissapointwd in any way. O_o
The extra reach is priceless!
Posted By: ash elemental Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 23/02/22 07:58 AM
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by Eagle Pursuit
It's funny you mention lasting through the adventure. On my barb play through, I grabbed the 2H sword from the demon guy on the nautiloid. Larian's new damage calculation says it does 3-16 damage per hit. I played through the party scene, killing the gobbie leadership, and I did not find a single comparable weapon.

And you won't ever change during the EA because the tutorial weapon is the only valuable 2H weapon... And the more powerfull.
You can get the same bonus fire damage on other weapons by dipping. Imo other weapons have more interesting bonuses. E.g. a bear barbarian can fight relatively safely at 50% health when raging, so I'd give them the bloodied greataxe (also available early) instead.
Posted By: Tuco Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 23/02/22 08:32 AM
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
And you won't ever change during the EA because the tutorial weapon is the only valuable 2H weapon... And the more powerfull.
It's not really THAT good. And personally I'll take +1 or +2 weapons that also increase chances to land a hit over a "pre-dipped" flaming sword.
The Sussur one with ì1 and silencing effect is great, for instance. Even if in my last playthrough I decided to go for a dagger and give it to Shadowheart instead.
Posted By: 1varangian Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 23/02/22 08:38 AM
The fire on the Everburn Sword should go out when you leave the Nine Hells.

It looks stupid when it's burning all the time when carried anyway.
Posted By: ALexws Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 23/02/22 09:08 AM
Originally Posted by 1varangian
The fire on the Everburn Sword should go out when you leave the Nine Hells.

It looks stupid when it's burning all the time when carried anyway.
it's literally called "Everburn" so of course it's burning all the time?
Posted By: Maximuuus Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 23/02/22 09:12 AM
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Coat litteraly any regular non-magical 2H sword in poison or dip it it fire ... and you just get weapon of exactly same power. O_o

I follow one of your regular advice : I never use dipping wink
On top of that, you can coat the Everburn Blade with some poison (it does not work with all of them if I remember well, but I can assure you it is with the wyvern poison).

Originally Posted by Tuco
It's not really THAT good. And personally I'll take +1 or +2 weapons that also increase chances to land a hit over a "pre-dipped" flaming sword.
The Sussur one with ì1 and silencing effect is great, for instance. Even if in my last playthrough I decided to go for a dagger and give it to Shadowheart instead.

With reckless attack, the +1 is less impactfull imo.

Originally Posted by ash elemental
You can get the same bonus fire damage on other weapons by dipping. Imo other weapons have more interesting bonuses. E.g. a bear barbarian can fight relatively safely at 50% health when raging, so I'd give them the bloodied greataxe (also available early) instead.

1D12 + 1D6
Average damage without dipping : 10 when you're below 50% HP.
Average damage with dipping : 11.5 when you're below 50% HP.

2D6 +1D4
Average damage : 9,5 damage everytime.

Not worth "the risk" imo even if as you said, it's easier to stay below 50% with a barbarian.I personnaly think it's gonna be time to heal when I have less than 50%.
Posted By: RagnarokCzD Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 23/02/22 09:28 AM
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
I follow one of your regular advice : I never use dipping wink
You mean "dont do what you dont want to do?"

Thats good ... im glad im in agreement with someone about that.
Even tho dislike diping and therefore use weapon that is automaticly and permanently diped seems a little twisted ... but if it makes you happy its not my place to judge i gues. smile
Posted By: Maximuuus Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 23/02/22 09:34 AM
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
I follow one of your regular advice : I never use dipping wink
You mean "dont do what you dont want to do?"

Thats good ... im glad im in agreement with someone about that.
Even tho dislike diping and therefore use weapon that is automaticly and permanently diped seems a little twisted ... but if it makes you happy its not my place to judge i gues. smile

I'm only following this advive for dipping because it doesn't make any sense (and for barrelmancy because it annoys me).
Twisted ? Magical weapons dealing additionnal damages are a part of every DnD video games (and they are in the DMG). Dipping a sword in a candle is stupid and only exist in BG3.
Posted By: Dexai Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 23/02/22 09:36 AM
Everburn is an Easter Egg item. Most people aren't even going to know it exists.

Me, I like these new items. I'm not too sure about how they're balanced, but I like the style of design with sets and resource management. Being able to pick and choose which items to use rather than being forced to use all pieces of the set is nice. I dislike the naming of the "sparky" set items with a passion though wink

As for items being "interesting and useful throughout the adventure", this kind of thing is exactly the way, or at least one of the ways, to make items interesting to me... And while the "items are obsolete as soon as you pick them up" style of loot loop design is something I want to avoid I also don't want to be using the same items throughout the entire adventure. What would an item like that even be like?


Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
BTW anyone find any glowes for Wizard or Sorcerer? laugh
I mean i know they technicaly can wear any Light armor and it dont block spellcasting ... but it dont feel right. :-/

Originally Posted by ALexws
[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]
I have mixed feelings about this to be honest ...

On one hand, it makes perfect sense that "helmet" needs to be armor ...
On the other hand, this "helmet" is clearly created for Barbarian, and since it is armor it seems right to me that it should negate unarmored defense ... wich would make it quite questionable for some Barbarians. :-/

Decisions ... decisions.

That's not how Unarmoured Defence works either in practice or in theory. Helmets are not armour in any way that matters.
Posted By: Tuco Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 23/02/22 09:38 AM
Originally Posted by 1varangian
It looks stupid when it's burning all the time when carried anyway.
Yeah, not a fan of that effect, either.
Even if they wanted to for a "fire-y" (fiery?) effect I would have preferred something a bit less noisy from a visual standpoint. Dragon's Dogma would be a good example on how to make COOL LOOKING weapon buff effects.
Posted By: Sozz Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 23/02/22 10:28 AM
There's a hammer for your barbarian in the Waukeen's Rest, Eagle Pursuit. It deals 1d4 thunder damage upon landing from a Jump. I'm hoping it works with the eagle totem move.

Hamarhraft...
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Posted By: 1varangian Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 23/02/22 10:42 AM
Originally Posted by ALexws
Originally Posted by 1varangian
The fire on the Everburn Sword should go out when you leave the Nine Hells.

It looks stupid when it's burning all the time when carried anyway.
it's literally called "Everburn" so of course it's burning all the time?
We can change the name to Sometimesburn Blade or Hellblade, mr. Clever. =)
Posted By: RagnarokCzD Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 23/02/22 10:52 AM
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Twisted? Magical weapons dealing additionnal damages are a part of every DnD video games (and they are in the DMG). Dipping a sword in a candle is stupid and only exist in BG3.
Yup ... twisted.
Im affraid i cant explain this properly, nor i see any reason to ... in my eyes its just odd, but that is not important at all ... what matters is that you are happy with your game. smile

Just a question tho ...
Lets put candles aside, and ignore any other source of fire damage, even the logic that with some kind of oil it would totally be possible for short period of time ... but how about poisons?
They are also "part of every DnD video game".

Originally Posted by Dexai
That's not how Unarmoured Defence works either in practice or in theory. Helmets are not armour in any way that matters.
I dunno its just bugs me to be honest ...
Either they should remove the Armor property from the item completely, since it does nothing anyway ... or they should include it to all things that matter.

That is simply how i see it.
Including Gloves, Boots, Helmets, Belts and every other possible item ... if you are going to ignore any of those properties, what is reason for their existence? O_o
Posted By: ash elemental Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 23/02/22 11:29 AM
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Not worth "the risk" imo even if as you said, it's easier to stay below 50% with a barbarian.I personnaly think it's gonna be time to heal when I have less than 50%.
I don't find it too risky. Bear gives you damage resistance on almost everything on top of the hitpoints barbarians get. And in my experience in a full party enemies tend to prefer targets like Gale anyway.

Also, there are other items that also trigger on 50%, and which the "bearbarian" (love this nickname laugh ) can wear, such as the helmet of grit (bonus action), or the writhing pendant (no opportunity attacks), and also a new armor that gives wrath (+1 to melee damage). Editt: And of course Loviatar's love, how could I forget... laugh

Meanwhile the sword doesn't synergize with anything.
Posted By: SerraSerra Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 23/02/22 11:56 AM
Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
I HATE these items. It feels so un-D&D, action/MMO RPG like. Reminds me of DOS2 pointless random magic items that are everywhere.
Nothing creative,just stats/effect. Play 1 hour <NEXT SET>, 1hour <NEXT SET....>

PLEASE MAKE INTERESTING MAGIC ITEMS THAT WILL LAST AND BE USEFUL THROUGHOUT THE ADVENTURE! That have a HISTORY, that feel RARE, were you need to THINK...Hmmm should i use this super interesting helmet of xxx or this shield of xxx...

Kinda agree on this one, rather have a really really long quest for a good item that has a story connected to the quest and that thus feels very rewarding to obtain (e.g. the flail you can make in the BG2 fighter stronghold quest) rather than having to constantly change equipment to suit enemies or situational effects of items. Said differently, I want to adventure and quest in order to find Excalibur , and if I find it I want it to be the awesome weapon it is, I don't want to find these mediocre items infused with all those very situational conditional effects. Reading these item abilities and effects seems like reading some programmed syntax (if this then this, if that then that, etc). This is not how items work in real life or in fantastic worlds, except if it makes sense story wise (e.g. Frodo's sword lighting up for danger, makes sense. Frodo's sword lighting up for danger if he is below 50%hp, and charging him with electricity every time he lands a jump, is just arbitrary, gamey and incoherent world design).

Not that the games are comparable on other aspects, but I think Larian should take note of how Ubisoft changed the itemisation from AC Odyssey (constant leveling up of weapons/armor making them obsolete very fast and requiring a lot of time spent in menus) vs the new approach in AC Valhalla (only few weapons that can only be upgraded limited time, making players stick more to a certain weapons and upgrades to it feeling more like a real investment forcing you to also ask yourself will I use this, will I stick to this playstyle).

Anyway, i guess personally I'm at very opposite sides of many of these 'modern' game design decisions of Larian, and if that's what earns them their monies, they probably won't change much, I would simply love to see some of these 'gamey' conditionality, pseudo-randomness, and extremely specific situational utility be somehow countered or made more bearable by AT LEAST putting the story first and ensuring that if we find these kind of things, that they are there for a reason and not simply to provide players with endless combo's for meta-gaming. Quality over quantity or something I guess.
Posted By: Maximuuus Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 23/02/22 12:00 PM
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Twisted? Magical weapons dealing additionnal damages are a part of every DnD video games (and they are in the DMG). Dipping a sword in a candle is stupid and only exist in BG3.
Yup ... twisted.
Im affraid i cant explain this properly, nor i see any reason to ... in my eyes its just odd, but that is not important at all ... what matters is that you are happy with your game. smile

Just a question tho ...
Lets put candles aside, and ignore any other source of fire damage, even the logic that with some kind of oil it would totally be possible for short period of time ... but how about poisons?
They are also "part of every DnD video game".

I really don't understand why you're talking about poison.
Coating a weapon with poison make sense most of the time and require a consumable so it's not something you can do everytime with every characters without any restrictions.

I also like that we can find better poisons that the basic ones, but the wyvern poison is definitely too overpowered imo. Just a matter of number.

The "+1D4" of dipping is not really the problem.
Posted By: Ragitsu Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 23/02/22 01:33 PM
A very MMORPG-esque item...
Posted By: Eagle Pursuit Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 23/02/22 01:45 PM
Originally Posted by Sozz
There's a hammer for your barbarian in the Waukeen's Rest, Eagle Pursuit. It deals 1d4 thunder damage upon landing from a Jump. I'm hoping it works with the eagle totem move.

Hamarhraft...
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Ooo! Neat! I may have to go look for that
Posted By: 1varangian Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 23/02/22 01:47 PM
Originally Posted by Ragitsu
A very MMORPG-esque item...
I feel like this is just the tip of the iceberg now that the door has been opened for this kind of item design.

They said early on that magic items would be like in D&D. Rare and impactful. Which I like a lot about D&D. But now we are starting to get flooded with magic items with all kinds of homebrew conditions and properties that don't feel like D&D magic items anymore. It's starting to feel more like Divinity or Diablo where magical junk is everywhere and you upgrade equipment slots constantly. I hate the mind numbing item grind in an RPG. It makes the items boring and forgettable.

Not cool.
Posted By: Leucrotta Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 23/02/22 04:34 PM
Echoing the sentiments about it being 'mmorpg-esque'. I think I liked the design philosophy of some of the magic items earlier in EA much better. Right now it feels like item design is getting pushed with far too much emphasis leaning in the direction of equipment sets and builds around equipment gimmicks. This newer stuff does feel a lot more like MMO equipment. I like equipment feeling special, I don't want to feel like I'll be tossing stuff because it doesn't synergize with my 'momentum build' or whatever.

As a further point on that comparison, I really don't like the way quest rewards are being given out in newer content-the 'here's three items, pick one'. Feels artificial. These items are also only obtainable via the quests, so unlike the reward philosophy of some of the earlier quests where you could pickpocket zevlor's gloves, or just kill the paladin for his sword, they are discouraging players from going 'off the rails' in regards to quest design.

In some regards, I think the magic item design in BGIII is starting to show the limitations of making items unique in 5e. In 3rd you had all sorts of modifiers that made every piece of armor or weaponry unique. The Masterwork property, different materials (ie adamantine, mithral, etc), or the masterwork attribute system Dragon Magazine introduced that made sure there was always something you could do to make one dagger different from another before you even looked at that edition's robust system for magic enchantments. And that's not even getting into the variety of equipment options that were present or how stuff like max dex bonuses for armor or crit ranges and crit multipliers for weapons made equipment so much more unique. Hence why Larian is here giving weapons special attacks and going full-in on giving equipment all these gimmicky mechanics-because 5e weapons and armor just don't have that much going for them.

I do think Larian could do the game a big favor if they tuned down the MMORPG-influenced aspects though. That's a big turn off for me personally as someone who has never liked many of the aspects of that style of gameplay and would not like to see it replicated in my D&D games-tabletop or otherwise.
Posted By: 1varangian Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 23/02/22 05:38 PM
Strong agreement with Leucrotta.

D&D is now the breath of fresh air and much needed escape from the MMO style games where more is more with the mindless neverending equipment grind. In those games that IS the game and it makes sense, but not in a story driven RPG.

Turning D&D into that would be a crime. It's like going to a good restaurant for a long dinner but somehow finding yourself in McDonalds.
Posted By: smberg Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 23/02/22 06:44 PM
One thing that really got annoying and turned me off of DOS2 was how the “weapon and armor sets” were implemented. You would go through a bunch of side quests to assemble really cool weapon and armor sets that went together for a character. OK, all good so far. BUT, as soon as you finished the set, it was obsolete. To turn it into a DnD and BG3 equivalent example - you go through all the effort to assemble this great +1 set of weapons and armor with “Sparky” effects. As soon as you do, the next encounter introduces the first of the +2 set with the “Burny or whatever” effects. Now this really cool “+1 Sparky” set that I worked hard for and was excited about is instantly old news and I have to start all over again. Rinse and repeat with the next set. Therefore, none of the sets really felt special or epic because they were continually superseded. That was really annoying in DOS2 and I am afraid that we might be seeing the same trend start to show up in BG3.

Note that I am not necessarily opposed to the new weapon sets or new ideas, but I hope that Larian doesn’t go crazy with these “gimmicky” things and turn it into the ever repeating cycle that happened in DOS2.
Posted By: Icelyn Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 23/02/22 06:56 PM
I love getting new loot! biggrin
Posted By: Chroniver Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 23/02/22 08:50 PM
I like the items and the effects on them. Item sets that have interested active effects and change the gameplay in a meaningful way are a win for me. Lore-wise I've also seen similar item sets in DnD.

However, I will echo the feeling that items like that need to be rather rare. It's cool that we get to try them out now but I feel like they would be best reserved for late ACT2 or the endgame of ACT3. More approriate to be playing around with additional effects and such there.
Posted By: Ragitsu Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 23/02/22 09:32 PM
Originally Posted by 1varangian
Originally Posted by Ragitsu
A very MMORPG-esque item...
I feel like this is just the tip of the iceberg now that the door has been opened for this kind of item design.

They said early on that magic items would be like in D&D. Rare and impactful. Which I like a lot about D&D. But now we are starting to get flooded with magic items with all kinds of homebrew conditions and properties that don't feel like D&D magic items anymore. It's starting to feel more like Divinity or Diablo where magical junk is everywhere and you upgrade equipment slots constantly. I hate the mind numbing item grind in an RPG. It makes the items boring and forgettable.

Not cool.

Larian wants to use D&D insofar as it elevates their company's image, but they seem to detest abiding by the spirit of the system.
Posted By: The_Red_Queen Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 23/02/22 11:43 PM
Originally Posted by 1varangian
I'm not sure what to think about these items and Lightning Charges, Reeling, Momentum, Wrath, "when below 50% hp", "when you heal a target", "when you jump", etc. There's so much of it.


Yeah, so far I’m with folk saying there are too many, too gimmicky new items … with, in my view, too silly (provisional?) names. Of course I can always choose not to use them, but I don’t like feeling I’m being pushed to build my character(s) or play style round using a specific item set. Though I do like the fact that the sets don’t force you to get all the items to get a benefit and can be mixed and matched to a point. That seems to be building in flexibility for the future, and the possibility of for example getting more powerful items that will still synergise with early items and can be swapped in as your character progresses.

Hopefully this is just a proof of concept and in future releases we’ll see this moderated and balanced, and if Larian are going to take this sort of approach to sets, different sorts of item family that can support a variety of character concepts and play styles.
Posted By: LukasPrism Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 24/02/22 12:10 AM
I'm not opposed to the sets, in the same way I'm not opposed to Vestiges that can increase in power (in Exandria)... but yeah there is a lot, and I'd rather see more of the basic DMG items in first. I mean, who is crafting all these sets and scattering the parts all around this region? Perhaps there is a story reason for it?
Posted By: ALexws Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 24/02/22 12:53 AM
another new item! specific made for barbarian.
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Posted By: Dustmen Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 25/02/22 07:55 AM
If you watch the trailer for the game, it is advertised as a serious dark RPG with a touch of horror mixed in. Yet you look at the naming conventions that are being used for these quasi magic items and you get the impression that the trailer was for a different game entirely. It seems Larian isn't taking the contract to create a D&D 5E video game seriously.
Posted By: ALexws Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 25/02/22 08:03 AM
can't believe that there is still more. another one
[video:youtube]
[/video]
Posted By: Ragitsu Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 25/02/22 08:47 AM
Originally Posted by Dustmen
If you watch the trailer for the game, it is advertised as a serious dark RPG with a touch of horror mixed in. Yet you look at the naming conventions that are being used for these quasi magic items and you get the impression that the trailer was for a different game entirely. It seems Larian isn't taking the contract to create a D&D 5E video game seriously.

All I can say is, "Man, those better be placeholder names."
Posted By: RagnarokCzD Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 25/02/22 08:52 AM
Originally Posted by ALexws
can't believe that there is still more. another one
This item is odd ...
It would be fitting effect on boots tho.
Posted By: 1varangian Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 25/02/22 11:28 AM
I don't want D&D to turn into making a "Lightning build" or a "Momentum build" to get a crazy movement rate by stacking similar items. I prefer just wearing Boots of Speed which are powerful and special and wielding a Staff of Thunder and Lightning.

Building sets from an abundance of magical junk is entirely different from a Necromancer Wizard collecting a set of legendary Vecna artifacts. Or a Fighter collecting Balduran's items.

The more magic items there will be, the weirder, more gimmicky and less impressive they become.

And the names are getting too ridiculous when these gimmicky items are being mass produced.
Posted By: mr_planescapist Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 25/02/22 11:57 AM
Larian just cant help themselves. We WILL get DOS2-like magical items in huge quantities.

I used to play BG2 with a mod that made EVERY single magic items UNIQUE, no copies, and shifted them around in the world (even regular magic +1, +2 , ...weapons) And just that ALONE made the game incredibly fun and rewarding. You had only ONE Longsword +2 in the world, or 1 pair of boots of swiftness or a single ring of protection xxx...Not to mention the amazing item historical descriptions/stories we had.

But yea, doing this in 2022...rofl. Me wants my MMO COLOR CODED green /blue/ orange /purple /red /black / indigo/ LOOT lv1, and more LOOT lv2 to replace my LOOT lv3. GIME LOOT lv4.
Ive mentioned this before, for DOS2 if you removed ALL random GREEN, BLUE, PURPLE magical items and just added tons more unique ORANGE items, just called them MAGICAL ITEMS; the game would already be 2x better. The itemization alone in this game made me quit after 10 hours.
Posted By: Etruscan Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 25/02/22 12:37 PM
‘Combustion McFarty Leggings’ anyone? Grants extra jump distance when cheese has been consumed and an area effect gas damage.
Posted By: SkyKnight.Prime Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 26/02/22 10:07 PM
Am I the only one who wants the magic items to at least have some kind of Enhancement Bonus? I've just been selling everything because I get more mileage out of the +1 weaponry and armour. :P

SKP
Posted By: Maximuuus Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 26/02/22 10:28 PM
Originally Posted by SkyKnight.Prime
Am I the only one who wants the magic items to at least have some kind of Enhancement Bonus? I've just been selling everything because I get more mileage out of the +1 weaponry and armour. :P

SKP

No, you're not.

The best exemple are probably the stupid adamantine armors you can craft deep in the underdark after an epic quest leading to an epic reward that nearly have the same effect than the first magical +1 armor you can find in the druid grove...
Posted By: RagnarokCzD Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 26/02/22 10:43 PM
It would certainly be nice for some ... well, probably most of them ... but i dont think they "all" needs it.
That would on the other hand quite diminish its own value. :-/

Gith weapons for example should certainly be +1 (not excluding Vengeance enchantment) ...
I mean its reward for one of hardest encounter in EA ... reward should be fitting the work. :-/

On the other hand i would not make their armor +1 ... its allready strongest AC we get, why boost it even more? We need to also get option to move somewhere.

Same goes for Leather armor from Minthara.
Or any other Drow armor as the matter of fact ...

Honestly i would not make Everburning blade +1 ... i mean it would be cool and certainly strong ... on the other hand, then we would definietly get arguably strongest 2H weapon in tutorial. :-/
Wich sounds kinda lame. :-/

Do you have anything specific in mind?

//Edit:
Ah ... Adamantine ... still forgeting about it, since i usualy get it at the very end of my gameplay. laugh
And i agree ... those armors could use some second look and prefferably complete rework. :-/
After all those talk how "the person who control the forge would rule the Underdark" it was quite disapointing find. :-/

Also ... am i the only one who finds it weird that Sharites used the forge, and yet none of their armor is made out of Adamantine, nor the Adamantine armor we create contain any Shar symbols? laugh
Posted By: etonbears Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 26/02/22 11:21 PM
Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
Larian just cant help themselves. We WILL get DOS2-like magical items in huge quantities.

I used to play BG2 with a mod that made EVERY single magic items UNIQUE, no copies, and shifted them around in the world (even regular magic +1, +2 , ...weapons) And just that ALONE made the game incredibly fun and rewarding. You had only ONE Longsword +2 in the world, or 1 pair of boots of swiftness or a single ring of protection xxx...Not to mention the amazing item historical descriptions/stories we had.

But yea, doing this in 2022...rofl. Me wants my MMO COLOR CODED green /blue/ orange /purple /red /black / indigo/ LOOT lv1, and more LOOT lv2 to replace my LOOT lv3. GIME LOOT lv4.
Ive mentioned this before, for DOS2 if you removed ALL random GREEN, BLUE, PURPLE magical items and just added tons more unique ORANGE items, just called them MAGICAL ITEMS; the game would already be 2x better. The itemization alone in this game made me quit after 10 hours.

Pardon me? You rage-quit the game because the magic items had different colours? That sounds a little irrational, I only look at what the item does smile

Yes, the way Larian present their magic items reflects the expectations of most current videogame players, most of which are probably more familiar with MMO or Action games. That's just good business sense, which is why most videogames follow each other ( i.e. copy ) when anyone gets traction with a game concept.

Unfortunately, it's the 5e rules that are responsible for the nerfed magic items along with squashed level advancement and other things that were good about the 2e rules used in BG1/2, so we are pretty much stuck with shit magic items.

That said, I definitely prefer my shit magic items to not require me to be subject to stupid conditions before they actually do anything. There are far too many items that do nothing 95% of the time, and then do not very much the other 5%. Simple low-bonus items that always work are much preferable, which is why the 2H Sword with 1D4 fire damage you can get from the Nautiloid remains one of the best items.

There are some "sensible" limited items that don't do much, but are useful for what they do. Those that give access to spell effects, the item giving extra psychic damage to magic missile is pretty good for an arcane caster, several items that enhance a divine caster's healing. It's just unfortunate we have so many magic items that it is difficult to believe anyone uses. Maybe Larian should use their aggregated game data to determine which items are just never used.
Posted By: RagnarokCzD Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 27/02/22 12:01 AM
Originally Posted by etonbears
That sounds a little irrational
You should allready know that you get that a lot around here. laugh
Posted By: Cantila Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 01/03/22 07:47 PM
There are two items granting invisibility as well, aren't they new? One is leather armor and the other a light armored helmet I think. Found them in the Underdark.

Where can I find the Chain of Liberation and the Sparkswall?
Posted By: KillerRabbit Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 01/03/22 10:36 PM
This is one where I'm siding with Larian. Bring on the treasure hunt. Gimme magic loot.

This is true to the spirit of BG if not DnD. BG 1&2 had soooo much stuff you needed two bags of holding to carry it all. It's just something that will be true of any videogame adaptation of D&D rules: many more magic items and many more fights than you would ever see in a campaign.

And putting Larian's additions to D&D rules into magic items allows anyone who dislikes to just ignore them.

Judging by the cover art and the name I suspect the full set of lighting items was designed for "Gale" -- I'd rather have those rules put in this way instead of creating a new elementalist mage class.
Posted By: 1varangian Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 06/03/22 11:10 AM
It just occurred to me that this game has been in development for a long time. It has been in early access for a loooong time. Players are playing multiple playthroughs of an unfinished act I over and over again.

Is that why they are adding weird gimmicky items? Because everyone, including devs and internal testers, and us fanatics on this forum, are getting bored playing through the same unfinished content. You eventually become blind to what's enough and where less is more and just desperately need any new stuff.

They said in the beginning of EA the magic items would be in line with D&D, i.e. rare and significant. But a year later they changed their minds and started adding this MMO style gear in greater quantities. Why I wonder. Personally I hate the new items because they are just another step away from what makes D&D cool and unique, towards generic soulless MMO crap you have in just about every game now. I don't remember a single magic item from DA: Inquisiton or DOS 2. But I remember Varscona from BG1 from over 20 years ago.
Posted By: RagnarokCzD Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 06/03/22 01:04 PM
I doubt that would be the reason. laugh

The need of test such effects sounds a lot more reasonable.
Posted By: Ragitsu Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 06/03/22 04:07 PM
Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
This is true to the spirit of BG if not DnD.

These are not humble +1 swords or Boots of Elvenkind; these are the kinds of items you'd get in World of Warcraft or Everquest. With the exception of Fourth Edition, D&D does not ape MMORPGs.
Posted By: fallenj Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 06/03/22 07:26 PM
Originally Posted by 1varangian
I don't want D&D to turn into making a "Lightning build" or a "Momentum build" to get a crazy movement rate by stacking similar items. I prefer just wearing Boots of Speed which are powerful and special and wielding a Staff of Thunder and Lightning.

Building sets from an abundance of magical junk is entirely different from a Necromancer Wizard collecting a set of legendary Vecna artifacts. Or a Fighter collecting Balduran's items.

The more magic items there will be, the weirder, more gimmicky and less impressive they become.

And the names are getting too ridiculous when these gimmicky items are being mass produced.

Been like that since 3.5, my group used to power build back in the day trying to tailor there character as far as they could go. It's not "mmo" its just a style of game play.


Originally Posted by Ragitsu
Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
This is true to the spirit of BG if not DnD.

These are not humble +1 swords or Boots of Elvenkind; these are the kinds of items you'd get in World of Warcraft or Everquest. With the exception of Fourth Edition, D&D does not ape MMORPGs.

Maybe I'm missing something but both those are known d&d items

used to go from basic gear, masterwork, +1 to +5 from what I understand now since 5e nerfs everything is basic gear & +1 to +3

Edit* actually ill do some digging after I get off work.
Posted By: 1varangian Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 07/03/22 02:33 PM
Originally Posted by fallenj
Originally Posted by 1varangian
I don't want D&D to turn into making a "Lightning build" or a "Momentum build" to get a crazy movement rate by stacking similar items. I prefer just wearing Boots of Speed which are powerful and special and wielding a Staff of Thunder and Lightning.

Building sets from an abundance of magical junk is entirely different from a Necromancer Wizard collecting a set of legendary Vecna artifacts. Or a Fighter collecting Balduran's items.

The more magic items there will be, the weirder, more gimmicky and less impressive they become.

And the names are getting too ridiculous when these gimmicky items are being mass produced.

Been like that since 3.5, my group used to power build back in the day trying to tailor there character as far as they could go. It's not "mmo" its just a style of game play.

D&D has never been about gimmicky items like "when you jump make a thunder AoE" or "when you heal pull target 3m" or "when below 50% HP get +1 Persuasion checks against medium size Oozes".

They've also completely flooded the game with new conditions with minor effects. I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here. BG3 is heavily homebrewed and the homebrew is a very clear departure from the spirit of 5e, and every edition before it.
Posted By: Ragitsu Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 07/03/22 03:00 PM
This casual historical negationism in defense of Larian's "color" is discouraging.
Posted By: RagnarokCzD Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 07/03/22 03:35 PM
Originally Posted by 1varangian
D&D has never been about gimmicky items like "when you jump make a thunder AoE" or "when you heal pull target 3m" or "when below 50% HP get +1 Persuasion checks against medium size Oozes".
And now it is ...

[Linked Image from img.karaoketexty.cz]
Posted By: gaymer Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 07/03/22 04:04 PM
The new items promote a DOS:2 style of play. Regardless if you feel this game is or is not DOS, these items are basically shifting the combat to use the same schemes and rotations as DOS.

And now, they are slowly introducing the predication of using surfaces and more and more surfaces every fight.
Posted By: LukasPrism Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 07/03/22 06:15 PM
Surfaces are low hanging fruit for them, as the systems are already there. I’d much prefer to see proper climbing, and swimming, and true flight… but those are much less likely.
Posted By: Maximuuus Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 07/03/22 09:07 PM
Something else that is very strange in BG3 about items. Not sure we have already talked about it... The color code.

The color code is used in many games for decades now. We can like it or not but this code help the players to see what item is better than another one.
More bonuses or more powerfull bonuses,... It depends the game but the idea remains the same.

Except in BG3.

A few exemples :
- Sussur's weapons are blue, but exactly the same as the green +1 weapons.
- Adamantine armors have different, but not more (or more powerfull) bonuses than the green ones.
- Some green items allow you to cast level 0 spells while some others allow you to cast level 1 spells. The blue staff of Sicnkess also gives you a level 1 spell and nothing more.
- Mourning Frost is "legendary" and it's a good weapon but not an extraordinary one.

It looks like the colors are really used to define what is uncommon (green) and what is rare (blue)... But with a total abstraction of the code players are used to for years : rarer items (blue in BG3) are better than the green ones (uncommon in BG3).
They could have created their own code but they choosed to take a part of a well established one to give him another meaning.

I don't know why they're doing this but it's disturbing when you have finally understood than your green weapon is better than the blue one.
Posted By: Ragitsu Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 07/03/22 10:32 PM
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by 1varangian
D&D has never been about gimmicky items like "when you jump make a thunder AoE" or "when you heal pull target 3m" or "when below 50% HP get +1 Persuasion checks against medium size Oozes".
And now it is ...

[Linked Image from img.karaoketexty.cz]

Still on retainer.
Posted By: RagnarokCzD Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 08/03/22 07:06 AM
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
- Sussur's weapons are blue, but exactly the same as the green +1 weapons.
I have seen this statement few times from you ...
And i keep wondering why do you ignore their silencing effect that prevents casting for one turn. O_o

Originally Posted by Maximuuus
- Mourning Frost is "legendary" and it's a good weapon but not an extraordinary one.
Nope its rare since patch 7.
Posted By: Maximuuus Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 08/03/22 07:45 AM
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
- Sussur's weapons are blue, but exactly the same as the green +1 weapons.
I have seen this statement few times from you ...
And i keep wondering why do you ignore their silencing effect that prevents casting for one turn. O_o

Originally Posted by Maximuuus
- Mourning Frost is "legendary" and it's a good weapon but not an extraordinary one.
Nope its rare since patch 7.

Because it's not what the tooltip say in my patch 7 playthrough when my mouse is on Sussur Dagger (It's now a green weapon rather than a blue one).
But I tried and it looks like you're right. The tooltip is absolutely confusing.

You're also right about Mourning Frost, I didn't re-checked in game and Fextralife is definitely not up to date.

Sword of Justice is now green too but is "better" than a green +1 greatsword (same damage and %to hit bonus + defensive spell as a second bonus).
Sussur is finally a +1 weapon that also have another bonus but it's as green as a +1 dagger.

Looks like they have changed a few colors but it does not change the message. The color code still doesn't make any sense.
Posted By: RagnarokCzD Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 08/03/22 08:19 AM
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Fextralife is definitely not up to date.
Yeah its pissing me off aswell. :-/

But quite honestly they never were ...
Since patch 2 or 3 i believe they claim that Quarterstaves are versatile. -_-
Posted By: fallenj Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 08/03/22 11:49 AM
Originally Posted by 1varangian
Originally Posted by fallenj
Originally Posted by 1varangian
I don't want D&D to turn into making a "Lightning build" or a "Momentum build" to get a crazy movement rate by stacking similar items. I prefer just wearing Boots of Speed which are powerful and special and wielding a Staff of Thunder and Lightning.

Building sets from an abundance of magical junk is entirely different from a Necromancer Wizard collecting a set of legendary Vecna artifacts. Or a Fighter collecting Balduran's items.

The more magic items there will be, the weirder, more gimmicky and less impressive they become.

And the names are getting too ridiculous when these gimmicky items are being mass produced.

Been like that since 3.5, my group used to power build back in the day trying to tailor there character as far as they could go. It's not "mmo" its just a style of game play.

D&D has never been about gimmicky items like "when you jump make a thunder AoE" or "when you heal pull target 3m" or "when below 50% HP get +1 Persuasion checks against medium size Oozes".

They've also completely flooded the game with new conditions with minor effects. I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here. BG3 is heavily homebrewed and the homebrew is a very clear departure from the spirit of 5e, and every edition before it.

No it has been in d&d, specifically 4e, first magic item in phb2:

Agile Resolve Vestments
goes from +1 to +6
Armor: cloth
Enhancement: AC
Property: while you are bloodied (half health if i remember correctly) gain +2 item bonus to Reflex.

here's another that actually does something:

Luring Withdrawal Armor
goes from +1 to +6
armor: leather, chain
Ehancement: ac
Power (daily): Immediate reaction (interrupt). trigger an enemy misses you with a melee attack.
effect: you shift 1 square (non AOO move) and slide (move) the triggering enemy into the space you vacated.

4e had this crap for sure, now out of 4e ya, it usually was just basic passives, artifacts is when it got weird, at least that's what it was called in 3.5
Posted By: Ragitsu Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 08/03/22 12:45 PM
Originally Posted by fallenj
Originally Posted by 1varangian
Originally Posted by fallenj
Originally Posted by 1varangian
I don't want D&D to turn into making a "Lightning build" or a "Momentum build" to get a crazy movement rate by stacking similar items. I prefer just wearing Boots of Speed which are powerful and special and wielding a Staff of Thunder and Lightning.

Building sets from an abundance of magical junk is entirely different from a Necromancer Wizard collecting a set of legendary Vecna artifacts. Or a Fighter collecting Balduran's items.

The more magic items there will be, the weirder, more gimmicky and less impressive they become.

And the names are getting too ridiculous when these gimmicky items are being mass produced.

Been like that since 3.5, my group used to power build back in the day trying to tailor there character as far as they could go. It's not "mmo" its just a style of game play.

D&D has never been about gimmicky items like "when you jump make a thunder AoE" or "when you heal pull target 3m" or "when below 50% HP get +1 Persuasion checks against medium size Oozes".

They've also completely flooded the game with new conditions with minor effects. I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here. BG3 is heavily homebrewed and the homebrew is a very clear departure from the spirit of 5e, and every edition before it.

No it has been in d&d, specifically 4e, first magic item in phb2:

Agile Resolve Vestments
goes from +1 to +6
Armor: cloth
Enhancement: AC
Property: while you are bloodied (half health if i remember correctly) gain +2 item bonus to Reflex.

here's another that actually does something:

Luring Withdrawal Armor
goes from +1 to +6
armor: leather, chain
Ehancement: ac
Power (daily): Immediate reaction (interrupt). trigger an enemy misses you with a melee attack.
effect: you shift 1 square (non AOO move) and slide (move) the triggering enemy into the space you vacated.

4e had this crap for sure, now out of 4e ya, it usually was just basic passives, artifacts is when it got weird, at least that's what it was called in 3.5

4e is - essentially - the MMORPG edition of D&D, so...that's not surprising.
Posted By: fallenj Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 08/03/22 12:54 PM
@Ragitsu

lol, never say never

and no, it was more of a card game than anything. Figured out the easiest way when I played that edition was to print all the abilities and items out like cards. Sleeve them in a solid mtg sleeve and flip them over when used.
Posted By: Ragitsu Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 08/03/22 08:03 PM
I hate to see anything even vaguely reminiscent of that edition back in 5e or a 5e-inspired game.
Posted By: fallenj Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 08/03/22 11:00 PM
Originally Posted by Ragitsu
I hate to see anything even vaguely reminiscent of that edition back in 5e or a 5e-inspired game.

sorry to tell you but they used some elements of 4e in 5e, had a convo with another person on here about it. Off the top of my head I think it was rituals, don't quote me on that.

BTW did you play 4e?
Posted By: Dustmen Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 10/03/22 01:23 AM
Well, to be brutally honest here, as long as the reviews on Steam and GoG are positive, Larian is going to assume that most of the player base approve of the changes. This goes for pretty much anything, so if your unhappy, revisit your review. If the reviews start trending negative, Larian might start taking the forums seriously.
Posted By: RagnarokCzD Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 10/03/22 08:12 AM
Or ... we can act like adults and accept that our role here is to provide opinions and let Larian process them the way they want ... instead force our vision for any cost. :-/
Posted By: RutgerF Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 10/03/22 09:40 AM
Quote
Larian,
Your game is absolutely great! It looks fantastic!

Although, you shouldn't have called it DnD, or BG3 for that matter.

Still, it's a great game!

Not DnD though.
Something like that?

Don't worry, Larian is not a company that can be easily swayed by feedback. More like the opposite. Which means, if something is indeed wrong, we'll have to shout about it on all corners to be heard, let alone being paid any attention to.
Posted By: Dustmen Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 11/03/22 04:05 AM
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Or ... we can act like adults and accept that our role here is to provide opinions and let Larian process them the way they want ... instead force our vision for any cost. :-/

That sounds so passive and defeatist to me. Better to go down fighting then pleading for mercy.

Honestly, the people that we should be complaining to is WotC. We should be on their forums bitching that this game we were assured would be a 5E D&D RPG is anything but.
Posted By: RutgerF Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 11/03/22 08:14 AM
Originally Posted by Dustmen
Honestly, the people that we should be complaining to is WotC. We should be on their forums bitching that this game we were assured would be a 5E D&D RPG is anything but.
100% with you on this one, except they seem to shut down their forums some 6 years ago.

Not sure about it, but targeting their official Twitter might be a viable strategy. Or whatever people do now to attract attention of a particular twitter account. Review-bombing on Steam and (especially) GOG might pay out, too. I say "especially" because the game has noticeably fewer reviews on GOG, so a bunch of 1-stars will make a bigger impact there.
Posted By: RagnarokCzD Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 11/03/22 01:17 PM
Originally Posted by Dustmen
That sounds so passive
That is hardly surprising. smile

I would say that if one approach seems too agresive ... and another one too pasive ...
The best one would lay somewhere in the middle. wink
Posted By: Ragitsu Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 11/03/22 05:53 PM
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by Dustmen
That sounds so passive
That is hardly surprising. smile

I would say that if one approach seems too agresive ... and another one too pasive ...
The best one would lay somewhere in the middle. wink

Beware of the Golden Mean fallacy.
Posted By: RagnarokCzD Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 12/03/22 06:41 AM
Dont you have anything better to do?
And i mean anything ... drugs, russian roulette, breeding of extremely poisonous snakes without any protection?
Posted By: Ragitsu Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 12/03/22 11:35 AM
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Dont you have anything better to do?
And i mean anything ... drugs, russian roulette, breeding of extremely poisonous snakes without any protection?

Hello there, Pot; you may call me Kettle.
Posted By: etonbears Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 12/03/22 02:08 PM
Originally Posted by Dustmen
Well, to be brutally honest here, as long as the reviews on Steam and GoG are positive, Larian is going to assume that most of the player base approve of the changes. This goes for pretty much anything, so if your unhappy, revisit your review. If the reviews start trending negative, Larian might start taking the forums seriously.

That's exactly the point. Most reviews are positive, because all BG3 players are videogamers ( by definition ), while relatively few play TT D&D ( I don't, for example ).

The 5e rules are exactly what TT players wanted them to be, due to significant consultation after the blowback from the drastic 4e changes. But since the rejected 4e rules were designed to align better with videogame norms, that also means that 5e rules are less well suited to creating an appealing videogame for those that don't play TT.

Most of the changes Larian are making seem to be aimed at increasing the tempo of combat rounds, and increasing the impact of what a player can do when it's their turn, which is in line with what most people buying the game will probably prefer. I really hope that when the game is finally released there is a "strict" D&D mode for the TT players that want it, but I entirely understand why that is not the mode used for Early Access testing, since it is a minority preference.

Anyone that doesn't like what Larian are doing should still give direct and indirect feedback so that they know there are dissenters to consider, but no-one should expect their comments to necessarily result in change, particularly to the one/only game mode in Early Access.

Feedback is also likely to be more impactful if rendered politely, lucidly and logically, which seems to be beyond some people at times.
Posted By: GM4Him Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 12/03/22 03:06 PM
Originally Posted by etonbears
Originally Posted by Dustmen
Well, to be brutally honest here, as long as the reviews on Steam and GoG are positive, Larian is going to assume that most of the player base approve of the changes. This goes for pretty much anything, so if your unhappy, revisit your review. If the reviews start trending negative, Larian might start taking the forums seriously.

That's exactly the point. Most reviews are positive, because all BG3 players are videogamers ( by definition ), while relatively few play TT D&D ( I don't, for example ).

The 5e rules are exactly what TT players wanted them to be, due to significant consultation after the blowback from the drastic 4e changes. But since the rejected 4e rules were designed to align better with videogame norms, that also means that 5e rules are less well suited to creating an appealing videogame for those that don't play TT.

Most of the changes Larian are making seem to be aimed at increasing the tempo of combat rounds, and increasing the impact of what a player can do when it's their turn, which is in line with what most people buying the game will probably prefer. I really hope that when the game is finally released there is a "strict" D&D mode for the TT players that want it, but I entirely understand why that is not the mode used for Early Access testing, since it is a minority preference.

Anyone that doesn't like what Larian are doing should still give direct and indirect feedback so that they know there are dissenters to consider, but no-one should expect their comments to necessarily result in change, particularly to the one/only game mode in Early Access.

Feedback is also likely to be more impactful if rendered politely, lucidly and logically, which seems to be beyone some people at times.

I, being a TT DM, totally disagree with you on many points. 5e is simpler and far more better suited for video games. There are many TT players out here playing BG3, and we want more 5e implemented because 5e is balanced and fun. It can easily be adapted for a video game but Larian is chucking a lot of it, at least presently even though it can and has, by Solasta, been implemented well. (Though even Solasta could have done it better.)

I have an app that can do almost everything for 5e for you, simplifying everything, so I know it can be done. The only thing the app is missing is graphic representation of characters on game maps. Then it would be an awesome video game. Larian could do this same thing, but they are refusing to because they don't want to. Simple as that. They want to make BG3 like DOS, not D&D. At least, that's what it seems.

Classes are virtually stripped of their uniqueness in BG3, and everything is weird and extreme because they have mostly deviated from TT. It's a mess and the main issue I have with the game. Rogues aren't special because anyone can rogue, clerics aren't needed because anyone can heal, wizards aren't special because anyone can cast spells with scrolls and such, and fighters aren't needed because weapons give any characters special melee and ranged combat maneuvers. Monsters don't act like they should with teleporting phase spiders who have super spit poison surfaces, and anyone can shove anyone 30+ feet off a ledge and into lava. It's insane.

I enjoy the game. Love it actually, but it would be SO much better with a bit more 5e and a bit less homebrew gimmick nonsense.
Posted By: Icelyn Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 12/03/22 05:21 PM
Love the Spellsparkler and lightning charge items for casters.😊
Posted By: GM4Him Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 12/03/22 05:24 PM
To add to this, the app I am talking about has all races and classes. It has lists for all spells, all standard weapons, all backgrounds... It keeps track of initiative, has random encounters suggestions built in... Pretty much everything but maps and character icons. It also doesn't add up rolls for you like Fantasy Grounds does, but it provides everything you could use in a video game D&D setting except the maps and figures.

If they can do it, why can't Larian? The only TT items that wouldn't translate well would be certain spells and abilities related to storytelling.

And combat would actually be faster if they didn't start you out with so many options. The point is to build a simple base and then add to it over time, little by little so you get to know all the things your character can do. When you start with all these options, you take longer to decide what to do because you aren't familiar with anything. You have to learn more right away than with standard RAW 5e.

And, to bring it back to topic, the same is true with items. Larian is inundating us with special items. I hardly use any of them because there are just too many. I pick the ones I am most familiar with and dump the rest. It's just too much too fast. Spread the special items out more over time. That would be much better.
Posted By: etonbears Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 13/03/22 12:04 AM
Hello @GM4Him.
I wasn't really sure whether to reply to this, as you seem to have misunderstood my post, but as you have replied to me, I shall see whether I can explain more clearly.

Originally Posted by GM4Him
I, being a TT DM, totally disagree with you on many points. 5e is simpler and far more better suited for video games. There are many TT players out here playing BG3, and we want more 5e implemented because 5e is balanced and fun. It can easily be adapted for a video game but Larian is chucking a lot of it, at least presently even though it can and has, by Solasta, been implemented well. (Though even Solasta could have done it better.)

I have an app that can do almost everything for 5e for you, simplifying everything, so I know it can be done. The only thing the app is missing is graphic representation of characters on game maps. Then it would be an awesome video game. Larian could do this same thing, but they are refusing to because they don't want to. Simple as that. They want to make BG3 like DOS, not D&D. At least, that's what it seems.
I played and occasionally was DM for games using the original D&D rules and AD&D 1e and 2e, obviously many years ago. I am also a Software Engineer by background, and can absolutely confirm that even the first PC that I used ( Intel 8086, running Microsoft DOS circa 1985 ) was more than capable of doing the math in realtime for ANY version of D&D, past or present. D&D ( and other similar games ) rules are simply not a computationally challenging problem.

That fact, however, is beside the point. In 1985, input and output on PCs were mostly restricted to ASCII text, with some very primitive graphics, and early attempts at input devices like the "mouse" and "joystick" that were really quite lame, so videogame implementations were very limited by hardware inadequacy.

So, yes, if the D&D rules could easily be implemented back then, they can easily be implemented now, and I made no assertion that such was not possible. What I said ( or meant to be understood ) was that the 4e ruleset was designed to appeal to MMO and other videogame players, while 5e rules were designed to appeal to the traditional TT players.

As a result, implementing 5e in a videogame is a challenge if you also want to appeal to non-TT players, who make up the bulk of the modern audience. It may not be important to you that BG3 be financially successful, but it is to Larian, and it is to WotC; so they make changes that they consider to be appropriate, and you clearly don't like.

Originally Posted by GM4Him
Classes are virtually stripped of their uniqueness in BG3, and everything is weird and extreme because they have mostly deviated from TT. It's a mess and the main issue I have with the game. Rogues aren't special because anyone can rogue, clerics aren't needed because anyone can heal, wizards aren't special because anyone can cast spells with scrolls and such, and fighters aren't needed because weapons give any characters special melee and ranged combat maneuvers. Monsters don't act like they should with teleporting phase spiders who have super spit poison surfaces, and anyone can shove anyone 30+ feet off a ledge and into lava. It's insane.

I would say that Larian simply exacerbate problems that are intrinsic to the 5e rules. The early D&D rules pretty much required Thief/Cleric/Wizard/Fighter ( which, therefore, became the "classic" 4-person party ), because those classes (and derived classes) had unique features or strengths that have either disappeared or become possible for all characters.

For the Thief, Locks, Traps, Hide in Shadows, Climbing are all specialty skills that everyone can now perform in 5e. Healing used to be restricted to Divine spells and magic items like potions and scrolls, but in 5e, everyone can apparently regain health by playing cards for an hour. Wizard and Cleric spells used to be their USP, now in 5e 10 of the 12 classes can be casters if you so choose. Magic items ( the actual topic of the thread ) used to be hugely important in defining and developing your character, but in 5e they seem almost meaningless.

Certainly BG3 Early Access doesn't stick to the 5e rules, because they do want to appeal to the primary videogame audience, who do not play TT. As the 5e rules are not particularly to my liking anyway, I have no particular problem with that, and I will simply ignore or work around anything that I don't like. However, it's worth repeating what I said in my original post, that I hope the released game DOES have a "strict" game mode for TT players like yourself that don't want the Larian Homebrew. Ideally there would be multiple settings and mode choices, but that might be left to interested modders.

Originally Posted by GM4Him
I enjoy the game. Love it actually, but it would be SO much better with a bit more 5e and a bit less homebrew gimmick nonsense.

Good, I do too, even though I didn't like Original Sin enough to finish it or buy the sequel. Making a videogame that is able to appeal to a wide enough variety of opinions and tastes to be profitable is not easy, particularly if you spend as much as Larian are in making BG3. I feel it is mostly going in the right direction, but they still have a lot of challenges in making their story coherent and intelligible regardless of how you choose to play the game, and that is probably my major concern.
Posted By: GM4Him Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 13/03/22 05:07 AM
@etonbears

Cool background BTW.

I think the main thing I find wrong by what you are saying is that you think 5e is a challenge if you also want to appeal to non-TT players. I think 5e is SO much simpler, by far, than 3 and 3.5. Playing Pathfinder after Solasta really smacked me in the face with this. I then went back and played a bit of Neverwinter Nights 2 and was like, "Geez! So many options. So many choices for level ups and jazz. I forgot how complicated D&D could be compared to other RPGs.

Never played 4e, admittedly, but I've always heard bad things. So, is 5e harder than 4e? I guess maybe. I don't really know since I never played 4e.

But I can say that 5e is simple and easy to master. That's what I love about it. It would work SO well with a video game, which is why it drives me crazy that they aren't being faithful to the game. I fully believe a faithful adaptation could be done very well, and gamers would really like it. The problem is, we won't know because they're not doing it.

EA would be the perfect time to test it out. Who knows? Maybe I'm wrong. But why not test it and find out?
Posted By: Archaven Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 13/03/22 05:43 AM
DOS2 have itemization issue due to 'fixed' number of battles. I agree to UNIQUE items/weapons/armors compared to some randomly generated items that i wished to obtained and failed (after misssing and completed an area where you are required to grind/farm on that specific location/monster until you get your RNG).

DOS2 has no random encounter. I played first released BG3 EA (maybe not even patch 1?) and there's no random encounter. Someone correct me if i'm wrong if latest patch has random encounter already.

The only way for these itemization to work would be endless combat/grinding on specific areas that respawns enemy and that combat gains little to NO experience. And the reward is the loot. I like the older BG style and pathfinder kingmaker and wrath of the righteous where those items are UNIQUE.
Posted By: GM4Him Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 13/03/22 06:46 AM
Just so you know, I do care if Larian makes money. I want BG3 to be successful. I want them to make more.

That said, people who have never played 5e are standardly the ones who say things like, "It would not work well as a video game or be fun. It's only good for TT." I think it's a common misconception, along with a number of things said.

Items, for example, are still very important in TT. BG3, however, turns them into the have all be all, making everything else null and void.

Example: Clerics are still supposed to be the primary healer class. You can have other healer classes, but cleric in 5e still is king of healers. Not in BG3. Have a potion? Throw it at friends and heal them. You don't need to be a cleric or druid to heal. EVERYONE heals.

Wizards? In 5e, they are still the most versatile spellcasters. Not in BG3. EVERYONE can cast spells because items now give anyone the ability to: Entangle, Create Water, Ray of Frost, and so on, and since everyone can use revivify scrolls and well, all scrolls, any spell is anyone's game.

So why need classes at all in BG3? They're pointless. Don't even get me started on how BG3 destroys the Rogue class. No Expertise to make them far better at certain skills, no Fast Hands to make potion drinking as a bonus action only available for rogues, no lots of things.

And the health restored during Short Rests is meant to symbolize resting, eating, bandaging and tending to wounds, fixing armor and equipment, etc. And it is supposed to be limited by Hit Dice. Yes, you can heal during that time, but it does not in any way replace a healer. Trust me. D&D session tonight. During combat, one character was almost knocked out of the fight. The healer was all that stood between them and being dropped.

The point of short rests is to avoid the need for players to have to Long Rest to continue. It isn't to replace the healers in any way. Those hit Dice go fast.

Descent into Avernus. My players didn't long rest once during one of the beginner dungeons fighting the cult of the Dead Three. I didn't let them. Why? Didn't make sense. Yeah. They were glad to have a cleric in the party. They short rested once, for they were in a hostile dungeon. It in no way replaced their healer.

Anyway, my point is that people don't even give it a chance. Then they say it is unappealing or it won't work. 5e is hugely successful. D&D is exploding with popularity. So if 5e is the edition that is making D&D so popular, why are people writing it off without even trying it?

I did see you mentioned that you hope there's a mode. I do too. But I hope they don't just balance everything based on the nerfed version in EA and then kill us with the 5e difficulty that is too hard to beat because every encounter is Deadly. That's what I'm afraid they'll do. Then they'll say, "See? It doesn't work.". Well, yeah. You're making 2 level 1 characters face 3 intellect devourers - 3 of them. Naturally, that's gonna be next to impossible if you use genuine rules and stats. The only way to make that encounter work is to increase party size to at least 5 and wound those puppies to start with.
Posted By: etonbears Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 13/03/22 04:13 PM
Originally Posted by GM4Him
@etonbears

Cool background BTW.

I think the main thing I find wrong by what you are saying is that you think 5e is a challenge if you also want to appeal to non-TT players. I think 5e is SO much simpler, by far, than 3 and 3.5. Playing Pathfinder after Solasta really smacked me in the face with this. I then went back and played a bit of Neverwinter Nights 2 and was like, "Geez! So many options. So many choices for level ups and jazz. I forgot how complicated D&D could be compared to other RPGs.

Never played 4e, admittedly, but I've always heard bad things. So, is 5e harder than 4e? I guess maybe. I don't really know since I never played 4e.

But I can say that 5e is simple and easy to master. That's what I love about it. It would work SO well with a video game, which is why it drives me crazy that they aren't being faithful to the game. I fully believe a faithful adaptation could be done very well, and gamers would really like it. The problem is, we won't know because they're not doing it.

EA would be the perfect time to test it out. Who knows? Maybe I'm wrong. But why not test it and find out?

Yes, I agree with you that 5e is probably the simplest and most understandable version of D&D since about 1980. That is by design, since TT players actually need to be able to hold everything in their heads; and arguably the evolution of both 2e and 3e got out of hand to the point that it was sometimes impossible to determine what was "correct" in a given situation. That was also true with the original 1970s rules that were added to in a haphazard manner as TSR came up with their next "great idea" leading to frequently inconsistent rules. And that inconsistency was what led to AD&D, an attempt to draw a line under the previous anarchy and provide a clear and consistent set of rules; which is probably why I really quite liked that version.

The 4e rules ( which I also have not played TT ) were a clear departure from the "feel" of D&D, and a deliberate attempt to "follow" the evolution of computer RPGs which had moved away from the concepts of TT. This computer RPG evolution was no accident, more a recognition that modern PC/console hardware could provide more dynamic and complex games than were suited to TT, and also that most of the PC/console player base liked more action-oriented games anyway; just look at how Bioware RPGs have changed from BG1 to DAI.

WotC made a clear mistake with 4e with respect to the TT audience, which led to the 5e rules. But they were not wrong about what the PC/console audience wanted. As far as I can tell from public sources, the only 4e game, Neverwinter MMO, has been more successful than any other D&D videogame, and has been active with continual new content for 10 years. It has a lot of players who are critical, as do many MMOs with their pay-2-play models, but it is still the sort of game that they choose to play, rather than party RPGs.

So, I would say that, reflecting on these experiences, Larian and WotC are trying to walk a path between the TT and the broader PC/console audiences. I'm sure they don't want to alienate either group, because that is bad business.

My guess ( and it is just that ) is that Larian, with their cheese, have been successful in widening the potential PC D&D player base beyond those that usually play party RPGs, and that may be part of why they got the BG3 licence. Similarly, WotC have made it quite clear that their D&D franchises are not tied to particular interpretations of rules, and they are quite cool with digital D&D being quite different ( like "Warriors of Waterdeep", for example ).

So, which rules are being used, and whether they are strictly accurate is probably secondary to maintaining a broad appeal, for both Larian and WotC. You should definitely keep saying what you want, just don't expect you can argue your way to changes that may work against their interests.
Posted By: GM4Him Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 13/03/22 04:26 PM
Originally Posted by etonbears
Originally Posted by GM4Him
@etonbears

Cool background BTW.

I think the main thing I find wrong by what you are saying is that you think 5e is a challenge if you also want to appeal to non-TT players. I think 5e is SO much simpler, by far, than 3 and 3.5. Playing Pathfinder after Solasta really smacked me in the face with this. I then went back and played a bit of Neverwinter Nights 2 and was like, "Geez! So many options. So many choices for level ups and jazz. I forgot how complicated D&D could be compared to other RPGs.

Never played 4e, admittedly, but I've always heard bad things. So, is 5e harder than 4e? I guess maybe. I don't really know since I never played 4e.

But I can say that 5e is simple and easy to master. That's what I love about it. It would work SO well with a video game, which is why it drives me crazy that they aren't being faithful to the game. I fully believe a faithful adaptation could be done very well, and gamers would really like it. The problem is, we won't know because they're not doing it.

EA would be the perfect time to test it out. Who knows? Maybe I'm wrong. But why not test it and find out?

Yes, I agree with you that 5e is probably the simplest and most understandable version of D&D since about 1980. That is by design, since TT players actually need to be able to hold everything in their heads; and arguably the evolution of both 2e and 3e got out of hand to the point that it was sometimes impossible to determine what was "correct" in a given situation. That was also true with the original 1970s rules that were added to in a haphazard manner as TSR came up with their next "great idea" leading to frequently inconsistent rules. And that inconsistency was what led to AD&D, an attempt to draw a line under the previous anarchy and provide a clear and consistent set of rules; which is probably why I really quite liked that version.

The 4e rules ( which I also have not played TT ) were a clear departure from the "feel" of D&D, and a deliberate attempt to "follow" the evolution of computer RPGs which had moved away from the concepts of TT. This computer RPG evolution was no accident, more a recognition that modern PC/console hardware could provide more dynamic and complex games than were suited to TT, and also that most of the PC/console player base liked more action-oriented games anyway; just look at how Bioware RPGs have changed from BG1 to DAI.

WotC made a clear mistake with 4e with respect to the TT audience, which led to the 5e rules. But they were not wrong about what the PC/console audience wanted. As far as I can tell from public sources, the only 4e game, Neverwinter MMO, has been more successful than any other D&D videogame, and has been active with continual new content for 10 years. It has a lot of players who are critical, as do many MMOs with their pay-2-play models, but it is still the sort of game that they choose to play, rather than party RPGs.

So, I would say that, reflecting on these experiences, Larian and WotC are trying to walk a path between the TT and the broader PC/console audiences. I'm sure they don't want to alienate either group, because that is bad business.

My guess ( and it is just that ) is that Larian, with their cheese, have been successful in widening the potential PC D&D player base beyond those that usually play party RPGs, and that may be part of why they got the BG3 licence. Similarly, WotC have made it quite clear that their D&D franchises are not tied to particular interpretations of rules, and they are quite cool with digital D&D being quite different ( like "Warriors of Waterdeep", for example ).

So, which rules are being used, and whether they are strictly accurate is probably secondary to maintaining a broad appeal, for both Larian and WotC. You should definitely keep saying what you want, just don't expect you can argue your way to changes that may work against their interests.

And on all this, we agree. I am totally expecting nothing at this point but hoping for the best.
Posted By: Icelyn Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 13/03/22 05:32 PM
Originally Posted by GM4Him
That said, people who have never played 5e are standardly the ones who say things like, "It would not work well as a video game or be fun. It's only good for TT." I think it's a common misconception, along with a number of things said.
I never played TT, and this is how it seems to me mostly because of the long rest system of balancing spells and all the penalties being suggested for casters (such as timed quests, etc.).

Hopefully they will include lots of options for everyone.
Posted By: GM4Him Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 13/03/22 06:59 PM
Originally Posted by Icelyn
Originally Posted by GM4Him
That said, people who have never played 5e are standardly the ones who say things like, "It would not work well as a video game or be fun. It's only good for TT." I think it's a common misconception, along with a number of things said.
I never played TT, and this is how it seems to me mostly because of the long rest system of balancing spells and all the penalties being suggested for casters (such as timed quests, etc.).

Hopefully they will include lots of options for everyone.

The whole point of scrolls IS to offset the limitations placed on Wizards and clerics and like classes. You have X number of spells per long rest, but you can use your class specific scrolls to compliment the limitations, allowing you to cast more spells per day than your spell slots allotment.

And Rituals are another way to add spells to your day without long rest. For example, the identify spell can be used as many times as you want per day outside combat because it is a ritual spell.

The point is, there's lots of ways spellcasters can cast more spells per day, but the implementation right now in BG3 makes all the other tools and methods pointless.
Posted By: Wormerine Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 13/03/22 07:38 PM
Originally Posted by etonbears
Certainly BG3 Early Access doesn't stick to the 5e rules, because they do want to appeal to the primary videogame audience, who do not play TT.

I find the argument that videogame audience wouldn't accept more faithul video game adaptaion to be shaky. Firaxis whole thing is doing very gameboardy games and they have been popular for years. Blizzard made a fortune on a card game. Make the feel good to interact with and add fancy visual effects and wider audience will eat it up.

I would replace "primary videogame audience" with "Larian's established D:OS fanbase".

I don't know, I am tired of game devs/publishers constantly leveraging existing IPs. Get off my nostalgia lawn, Larian.
Posted By: RagnarokCzD Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 13/03/22 09:25 PM
Originally Posted by Icelyn
Hopefully they will include lots of options for everyone.
+1!
Posted By: Ragitsu Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 13/03/22 10:03 PM
It should - however - be a D&D/FR game.
Posted By: GM4Him Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 13/03/22 10:34 PM
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by Icelyn
Hopefully they will include lots of options for everyone.
+1!

You know, I do too. I really do.

The reason I fight so hard out here is because it's more likely you'll get what you want. It seems not so likely those like me will.

I really hope they do give tons of settings to customize the game for the vast majority. It may not come out until late 2023, but I'd rather have that then get a game that cuts out a huge crowd of people. I want the game to do well, and I do want them to make more, but only if they aren't going to just cater to the crowd the game is currently catering to.
Posted By: etonbears Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 13/03/22 11:32 PM
Originally Posted by Wormerine
Originally Posted by etonbears
Certainly BG3 Early Access doesn't stick to the 5e rules, because they do want to appeal to the primary videogame audience, who do not play TT.

I find the argument that videogame audience wouldn't accept more faithul video game adaptaion to be shaky. Firaxis whole thing is doing very gameboardy games and they have been popular for years. Blizzard made a fortune on a card game. Make the feel good to interact with and add fancy visual effects and wider audience will eat it up.

I would replace "primary videogame audience" with "Larian's established D:OS fanbase".

I don't know, I am tired of game devs/publishers constantly leveraging existing IPs. Get off my nostalgia lawn, Larian.

It's only a shaky argument if you prefer qualitative arguments over quantitative ones. Sure, some videogame players that don't play D&D would play a completely accurate D&D 5e videogame. We know that because a similar cohort have bought other D&D games, some of which were quite accurate. The question is not if anyone would, but how many.

I get the sense that many people want to believe that game ( physical or digital ) companies think of their current player base in an altruistic manner, doing the "best" for their loyal audience. Some ( usually smaller ) companies do, and some can even make it work, but by and large, companies follow the money because they have to, even if they would rather not.

The most apposite example of that is probably the D&D 4e rules. Utterly hated by the player base, but WotC were seduced by a desire to attract the 10x larger audience of digital RPG players who were moving to more action-oriented games and MMOs, so they copied what seemed popular.

Even back in the days of Gygax and TSR, they had the same problems of getting enough revenue from the "loyal" player base, and produced some questionable products before eventually going bankrupt ( including the completely unnecessary, but money-spinning polyhedral dice sets ).

As best I can judge, there are no previous videogames in the party RPG genre ( including Firaxis games like XCOM ) that have had sales that would justify the investment being put into BG3. The only reason Larian can sink the money into BG3 that they are, is because they attracted part of the primary videogame audience with their DOS games, so yes, they absolutely need to be sure they keep those players engaged.

None of this is to say I LIKE the way most games franchises go over time. I have been disappointed by the direction so many games have taken that I've lost count. I've just become sanguine enough to understand why it happens, treat advertising and marketing claims with the contempt they deserve, and not to expect anything more that what I can actually see is true.

The fact that BG3 is the first early access I have ever purchased, that I don't like DOS games, nor the 5e rules, either speaks to the value of nostalgia lawns, or that I am getting senile smile
Posted By: OcO Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 14/03/22 06:57 AM
After seeing this thread on reddit about soloing the Gith patrol with a druid cause of these items...
https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/t1nln7/so_the_new_sparky_set_is_kind_of_ridic/
I'm definitely going with OP for this stuff. Stupidly so imo. And by the sounds of it the other new abilities/conditions allow for equally OP stat and damage boosts/etc.
Posted By: 1varangian Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 14/03/22 03:26 PM
Originally Posted by OcO
After seeing this thread on reddit about soloing the Gith patrol with a druid cause of these items...
https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/t1nln7/so_the_new_sparky_set_is_kind_of_ridic/
I'm definitely going with OP for this stuff. Stupidly so imo. And by the sounds of it the other new abilities/conditions allow for equally OP stat and damage boosts/etc.
And suddenly the game is more about collecting gimmicky homebrew sets rather than using your class abilities and fighting normally.

This level of "magic lightning builds" on low level characters goes against the spirit of D&D. I don't mind it in Diablo but I mind it in D&D. The lack of magic junk gear grind is fun in a different way and something that makes D&D unique.

First it was the OP homebrew high ground and backstab mechanics. Once that was somewhat fixed, they're starting with the homebrew magic item spam which is also OP and doesn't fit D&D. Larian are trying way too hard and not trusting D&D enough. Could they just stop with the excessive homebrew? Who wanted it anyway?
Posted By: RagnarokCzD Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 14/03/22 04:23 PM
Originally Posted by 1varangian
Who wanted it anyway?
We did ...
There was several occasions in the past when people were litteraly asking for new magic items. :-/
Posted By: etonbears Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 14/03/22 08:34 PM
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by 1varangian
Who wanted it anyway?
We did ...
There was several occasions in the past when people were litteraly asking for new magic items. :-/

Yep, for every person expressing the opinion that something is rubbish, another will say it's golddust.

Adventure, exploration, magic and treasure were the key pillars on which D&D was built. Those are far more important to me than combat, which is just a means to an end.

... but I still don't want to be tripping over items that only work on a Thursday afternoon while standing on one leg and wearing pink ...
Posted By: GM4Him Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 14/03/22 10:37 PM
Originally Posted by etonbears
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by 1varangian
Who wanted it anyway?
We did ...
There was several occasions in the past when people were litteraly asking for new magic items. :-/

Yep, for every person expressing the opinion that something is rubbish, another will say it's golddust.

Adventure, exploration, magic and treasure were the key pillars on which D&D was built. Those are far more important to me than combat, which is just a means to an end.

... but I still don't want to be tripping over items that only work on a Thursday afternoon while standing on one leg and wearing pink ...

Exactly. I like magic items. What I don't like is when magic items take the place of the need for classes or when you have to jump through hoops to use them. The ax that used to be able to set people on fire now only does extra damage if the person is on fire already. I liked it better before. I liked the ability to be able to set an enemy on fire. It was overpowered at this point in the game, but it was an awesome weapon that I always made sure I bought.

I want that weapon back. What I want them to do however is make it so that I can't just buy it from the local merchant. It would make a great weapon to find at Grymforge in a treasure chest somewhere in a dark corner. It would also only need to be nerfed a little from its original form. Instead of always setting an enemy on fire, the enemy has to make a dexterity savings throw of like 13 or higher. That's the kind of thing that I'd like to see.
Posted By: RagnarokCzD Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 15/03/22 07:01 AM
Seems to me that core of this problem is once again in that your mindset is just set in wrong direction ...

You say: I use this item therefore i have to do *this*.
I say: I do *this* therefore i will be much more effective with this item.

There are no loops to hop through ... if item you get dont suits your playstyle, why not simply use different one?
To achieve this option you obviously need lots of items tho. smile

Originally Posted by etonbears
but I still don't want to be tripping over items that only work on a Thursday afternoon while standing on one leg and wearing pink ...
This on the other hand is more problematic ...
It seems like one of persons who mind even just the existence of something ...

How can you work out with that anyway?
You hope they will be gone i hope they stay in ... the only certainity is that one of us will be dissapointed in the end.
And i would dare to say themat there is no surprise that we both hope hard ot will be the other one. :-/
Posted By: GM4Him Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 15/03/22 02:25 PM
Weapons in BG3 be like, "Dragon's Clasp Axe - If your target is on fire, you deal an extra 1d4 damage.
Weapons in D&D be like, "Longsword of Life Stealing - When you roll a 20 on an attack roll, that target takes an extra 3d6 necrotic damage. You gain temporary hit points equal to the extra damage dealt."

BG3 = you need to first set an enemy on fire, THEN you can acquire the benefits of the weapon.
D&D = there is a chance with each attack roll that you can acquire the benefits of the weapon.

There's a huge difference here. BG3, you have to meet the right conditions. D&D, you always have a chance to achieve success with the item. You don't have to first do this, then do that. It just either happens or it doesn't. (Some exceptions do apply, naturally.)

You say, "Well, just don't use it if it doesn't suit you." We say, "But they're ALL like that. There are very few items in this game currently that are like the Longsword of Life Stealing or other more normal D&D weapons. So, we either are forced to take extra steps to make a weapon more effective, being forced into using DOS surface mechanics and gimmicks just to take advantage of an item, or we don't use special items at all. There is no in between.

I don't mind weapons like Mourning Frost as long as there are also weapons like Sword of Wounding or Vicious Weapons, or Sun Blades, or Sunguard Shields. Weapons we don't have to do this and then that and then this and then that to use effectively.

And, I think part of the issue is that it's EA. Everything is jammed into Act 1. If these items were all spread out over the course of the entire game, people wouldn't have an issue with them as much. I honestly like most of the items in the game if they tweaked them a bit and spread them out.

Example: Paleoak Staff versus Nature's Snare. They give you both in EA. In my opinion, Nature's Snare makes Paleoak seem lame. Why? You can get Nature's Snare relatively easy, and its ability seems better than Paleoak. And yet, Paleoak is the reward for completing a Druid Quest.

Now, if they didn't let you acquire Nature's Snare in EA, and you only got Paleoak as a quest reward, then Paleoak would seem more rewarding because you did this big quest and you got a cool staff from it that isn't upstaged by an easier to get staff that is also Druid related.

OR Nature's Snare would be fine to get first if it wasn't as OP as it is compared to Paleoak. Nature's Snare is easy to get, so it should be something like a +1 Quarterstaff but only for Druids to wield, or something like that. Maybe give it the ability to cast Ensnare once per day if a target fails a Dex DC 13, or something really not that effective because it's an easy to get item. Then, when you get Paleoak, give it +1 to Attack and Damage plus the ability to walk on vines without getting entangled plus making it so that Entangle is always a prepared spell plus make it so that only a druid can use it, and NOW it becomes a much more awesome Druid weapon and a great reward for completing a fairly major questline.

Value. It's all about value. If you are constantly getting tons and tons of items with special abilities and traits, none of them feel special. They all feel mundane and lame because you are practically tripping over magic items at every turn.
Posted By: Dustmen Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 15/03/22 03:42 PM
My take on it is this.

TSR and WotC have been creating magic items for this game for about 50 years. Larian wants to make an original piece or two? I'm fine with that. What I'm not fine with is Larian basically discarding the DM Guide magical item list in favor of these if/then statement items that only appeal to geeky programers. Yes, we want more magical items in the game, that doesn't mean we want all the magical items in the game replaced with home brew DoS style magic items. Just a slight increase in generation. More plain Jane +1 items would even be acceptable. It just sucks when you know that there are critters out there that can only be hit with certain types of weaponry, and you don't have it. Maybe some bags of holding? Things that are staples of the genre, not gimicy wonder items never before seen in any D&D realm.
Posted By: RagnarokCzD Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 15/03/22 04:11 PM
There is expression in Czech ...
"Ask what you want.
I'll answer what I want." smile

I think the same is aplicable even here ...
Ask for anything you want ...
What Larian want will give us. smile
Posted By: GM4Him Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 15/03/22 04:54 PM
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
There is expression in Czech ...
"Ask what you want.
I'll answer what I want." smile

I think the same is aplicable even here ...
Ask for anything you want ...
What Larian want will give us. smile

Yes. Finally. You understand where I'm coming from. That is the whole point of this forum. Ask for whatever you want and hope they listen. Now you understand where I've been coming from this whole time with every post. I hope we get more D&D 5e everything so I keep asking for it even though you resist it just about every time. You debate and argue and fight, as if you need to defend BG3 against me, but I'm just asking and hoping they change the things me and others like me are asking them to change. We're not demanding, fighting, pushing or shoving 30+ feet into lava. We're just saying, "Hey. I don't like this thing you've done. It would be, in my opinion, better if you did XYZ instead. Here's why I think this."

It's not about who is right or wrong. It's just about asking and hoping. That's it. Nothing more. That's it. Now let's stop debating on every thread. I'll give my opinion. You give yours. K? K. Great. Nice chat.
Posted By: RagnarokCzD Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 15/03/22 05:10 PM
Originally Posted by GM4Him
But they're ALL like that.
Oh please ...
Who are you fooling?

https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Club+of+Hill+Giant+Strength
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Corellon's+Grace
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Everburn+Blade
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Faithbreaker
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Jagged+Spear
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Light+of+Creation
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Loviatar's+Scourge
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Nature's+Snare
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Paleoak
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Rain+Dancer
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Shattered+Flail
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Sorrow
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Sussur+Dagger
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Sussur+Greatsword
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Sussur+Sickle
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Staff+of+Arcane+Blessing
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Staff+of+Crones
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Sword+of+Justice
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/The+Watcher's+Guide
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Vision+of+the+Absolute
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Worgfang
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Xyanyde
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Doom+Axe
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Ritual+Dagger
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Ritual+Axe
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Sword+of+Screams
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Deep+Delver
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Giantbreaker
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Mourning+Frost

Plus every single +1 weapon in the game ... plus everything added in Patch 7 wich is still not added there. -_-
(Lightning weapons for example.)
All those weapons works exactly as you wanted ... either "all the time" or "you get some bonus, based on random roll".

None of them is conditioned ... and none of them require you to use any other action to reach its full potential ...


Originally Posted by GM4Him
being forced into using DOS surface mechanics
There is no way to cast Fire-Chromatic Orb without surface effect ... and that may set your enemy burning (wich effectively makes it strongest).

There is also this: https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Gloves+of+Flint+and+Steel
As i allready told you few dozen times, wich makes ALL and every fire damage you do have chance to "set your target alight" ... no surface mechanics, no gimmics, no additional action ... just Magic Equipment that makes certain type of your attack even more effective.
And as a side effect, it also makes pasively attacks of another member of your party more effective, with no additional work, nor action, nor any forcing to use surface mechanics. :-/


Originally Posted by GM4Him
There is no in between.
Except i just listed it. :-/


Originally Posted by GM4Him
I don't mind weapons like Mourning Frost
I do honestly ... i cant figure any way to use that staff effectively. :-/

I can imagine some uses if there will be Transmuted Spell metamagic in full release ...
(When you cast a spell that deals a type of damage from the following list, you can spend 1 sorcery point to change that damage type to one of the other listed types: acid, cold, fire, lightning, poison, thunder.)
In that case, Mourning frost in hands of Silver, or White Dragonblood Sorcerer ... could be really interesting choice!

But still i cant help the feeling that Frostbite debuff should be stacking, and last at least 2 turns ...
That way you would get something more interesting than 1damage, if you use Frost spell. :-/


Originally Posted by GM4Him
Weapons we don't have to do this and then that and then this and then that to use effectively.
I wonder wich of those i listed dont provide that. O_o
I mean, there is nothing wrong about wanting your favorite toys ... i just dont see why are you strugling so hard to admit it, while its sooo obvious. laugh


If these items were all spread out over the course of the entire game[/quote]
I hope not ...
It would be quite lame having to wait until end of Act II. or even worse Act III. to get some seriously interesting artefacts. :-/


Originally Posted by GM4Him
Example: Paleoak Staff versus Nature's Snare. They give you both in EA. In my opinion, Nature's Snare makes Paleoak seem lame. Why? You can get Nature's Snare relatively easy, and its ability seems better than Paleoak. And yet, Paleoak is the reward for completing a Druid Quest.
Well ... "lame" ... it depends on your prefferences ...

Acording to Fextralife Wiki (and for the record i dont thrust it in this) Paleoak is actualy the only Versatile Quarterstaff in game ...
IF that is true (and i repeat, i believe its not, but didnt check), then Paleoak is certainly MUCH better, just for this atribute alone ... since you can also use your shield while wielding it. laugh
(remember, the staff is reward for Druid PC only ... dunno if it will be accesible for Druid companion, nor if we even get any)

As for effects ...
Paleoak makes you imune to Ensnare, you dont get damage, nor imobilize, nor difficiult terain ...
We can of course ask how usefull this even is when you get the weapon only in case when you no longer shall fight any druids ... but i think it might be quite important buff in Shadowlands, concidering datamined enemies. wink
Nature's Snare on the other hand, have nothing to compare this with. laugh

The other effect ... roots.
That is purely matter of prefferences:
Nature's Snare gives them passively ... wich is + ... it also gives them randomly ... wich is -
Paleoak use costs Action ... wich it - ... but it also create difficiult terain and can affect multiple creatures ... wich is + ... sadly i cant find on wiki if this effect is somehow limited per S/L rest, or fight ... or if you can use it at will. :-/

I dont think there is any way to say that one of them is just better. :-/


Originally Posted by GM4Him
Now, if they didn't let you acquire Nature's Snare in EA, and you only got Paleoak as a quest reward, then Paleoak would seem more rewarding because you did this big quest and you got a cool staff from it that isn't upstaged by an easier to get staff that is also Druid related.

OR Nature's Snare would be fine to get first if it wasn't as OP as it is compared to Paleoak. Nature's Snare is easy to get, so it should be something like a +1 Quarterstaff but only for Druids to wield, or something like that. Maybe give it the ability to cast Ensnare once per day if a target fails a Dex DC 13, or something really not that effective because it's an easy to get item. Then, when you get Paleoak, give it +1 to Attack and Damage plus the ability to walk on vines without getting entangled plus making it so that Entangle is always a prepared spell plus make it so that only a druid can use it, and NOW it becomes a much more awesome Druid weapon and a great reward for completing a fairly major questline.
I think i have an interesting alternative ...
What IF ... Paleoak would be empowered version of Nature's Snare?

Just imagine ... you help Kagha and everything ... now:
- If you have Nature's Snare on you, Kagha asks for it ... and turn it into Paleoak (note this version would have all effects of both Paleoak and Nature's Snare ... meaning: AoE snare spellcast, imune to roots, and chance to root your enemy when attacking)
- If you never looted Nature's Snare, Kagha asks some of Druids to fetch it ... wich would also explain why Findal was there in the tunel, he has ben send for Nature's Snare even first time.
- If you sold it somewhere in the grove, Kagha would ask for the staff ...
- If you sold it outside the grove ... well, your loss pal. laugh (Nah, just kidding ... they could aswell make new one.)

Anyway it would work in my opinion MUCH better than Kagha just making the staff out of thin air. :-/

Or there is lazy solution of course:

Paleoak as reward for Druid ...
Nature's Snare as reward for everyone else ... i mean curently the quest ends up effectively unrewarded, if you are not druid (unless you got a deal with Zevlor, then at least he rewards you ... but he does the same even if you siply kill Kagha so ...) wich makes Kagha incredibly ungrateful, for someone who has ben just redeemed from her worst misstake in whole life. :-/


Originally Posted by GM4Him
Value. It's all about value. If you are constantly getting tons and tons of items with special abilities and traits, none of them feel special. They all feel mundane and lame because you are practically tripping over magic items at every turn.
I dunno ... i would rather be tripping over magic items at every turn, while i actualy use every fifth of them ...
Then waiting several dozen of hours for another magic items, that dont suits my needs. laugh
Posted By: Ragitsu Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 15/03/22 05:15 PM
When magical items - like any other sort of item - are in abundance, they're less special. Slapping on a bunch of conditional attributes doesn't help.
Posted By: Gray Ghost Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 15/03/22 05:20 PM
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
What IF ... Paleoak would be empowered version of Nature's Snare?

Just imagine ... you help Kagha and everything ... now:
- If you have Nature's Snare on you, Kagha asks for it ... and turn it into Paleoak (note this version would have all effects of both Paleoak and Nature's Snare ... meaning: AoE snare spellcast, imune to roots, and chance to root your enemy when attacking)
- If you never looted Nature's Snare, Kagha asks some of Druids to fetch it ... wich would also explain why Findal was there in the tunel, he has ben send for Nature's Snare even first time.
- If you sold it somewhere in the grove, Kagha would ask for the staff ...
- If you sold it outside the grove ... well, your loss pal. laugh (Nah, just kidding ... they could aswell make new one.)

Anyway it would work in my opinion MUCH better than Kagha just making the staff out of thin air. :-/

Okay, I think this idea is incredibly cool actually. I think the idea of getting story-based upgrades to items as rewards for quests would be plain awesome. I'm not sure if it would really work for BG3 because the typical system for crpgs is that you sell whatever items you don't need, so justifying getting back an item you sold or dropped so it can be upgraded could potentially strain credulity. But if this or any other game could pull that off, I would be very excited about it. That's a great way to make items feel special.

This is a tangent now, but I actually think that a game with limited weapons that you can't sell, which recieve story-relevant upgrades that are reflected as you advance would be really cool and make weapons feel special. In Assassin's Creed Odyssey, I was always excited to level up the spear of Leonidas and see it change and evolve. And I loved that weapons took on different appearances in Assassin's Creed Valhalla as you upgraded them as well.
Posted By: Dustmen Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 16/03/22 02:18 PM
Originally Posted by Gray Ghost
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
What IF ... Paleoak would be empowered version of Nature's Snare?

Just imagine ... you help Kagha and everything ... now:
- If you have Nature's Snare on you, Kagha asks for it ... and turn it into Paleoak (note this version would have all effects of both Paleoak and Nature's Snare ... meaning: AoE snare spellcast, imune to roots, and chance to root your enemy when attacking)
- If you never looted Nature's Snare, Kagha asks some of Druids to fetch it ... wich would also explain why Findal was there in the tunel, he has ben send for Nature's Snare even first time.
- If you sold it somewhere in the grove, Kagha would ask for the staff ...
- If you sold it outside the grove ... well, your loss pal. laugh (Nah, just kidding ... they could aswell make new one.)

Anyway it would work in my opinion MUCH better than Kagha just making the staff out of thin air. :-/

Okay, I think this idea is incredibly cool actually. I think the idea of getting story-based upgrades to items as rewards for quests would be plain awesome. I'm not sure if it would really work for BG3 because the typical system for crpgs is that you sell whatever items you don't need, so justifying getting back an item you sold or dropped so it can be upgraded could potentially strain credulity. But if this or any other game could pull that off, I would be very excited about it. That's a great way to make items feel special.

This is a tangent now, but I actually think that a game with limited weapons that you can't sell, which recieve story-relevant upgrades that are reflected as you advance would be really cool and make weapons feel special. In Assassin's Creed Odyssey, I was always excited to level up the spear of Leonidas and see it change and evolve. And I loved that weapons took on different appearances in Assassin's Creed Valhalla as you upgraded them as well.

I think selling the item should be possible because otherwise you will have people who don't care for an item even upgraded. I hate having items stuck in my inventory forever. That isn't to say I think it's a bad idea, just that those who sell the quest item should be tasked with recovering it if they wish to upgrade it. Either the merchant resells the item back to you at the price it was bought, or the player is given a small quest with a small exp reward for recovering the item needing upgrade, which will compensate them to a small degree for the extra monetary loss. Hell, the quest giver could even direct you to a nearby merchant who will sell the item even if it isn't the one you sold it to. Merchants do buy and sell amongst themselves after all.
Posted By: etonbears Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 16/03/22 10:39 PM
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Seems to me that core of this problem is once again in that your mindset is just set in wrong direction ...

You say: I use this item therefore i have to do *this*.
I say: I do *this* therefore i will be much more effective with this item.

There are no loops to hop through ... if item you get dont suits your playstyle, why not simply use different one?
To achieve this option you obviously need lots of items tho. smile

Originally Posted by etonbears
but I still don't want to be tripping over items that only work on a Thursday afternoon while standing on one leg and wearing pink ...
This on the other hand is more problematic ...
It seems like one of persons who mind even just the existence of something ...

How can you work out with that anyway?
You hope they will be gone i hope they stay in ... the only certainity is that one of us will be dissapointed in the end.
And i would dare to say themat there is no surprise that we both hope hard ot will be the other one. :-/

I'm perfectly happy to have lots of magic items ( you can always sell them ), I just prefer there to be some reasonable justification as to WHY any wizard would have gone to the trouble and expense of actually creating an item, which is not always clear in BG3.

Perhaps Larian can create a back-story in the description for their more unusual magic items...

"The infamous 'Ragnarok Non Sequitur' vowed to be the first master artificer in the history of Faerun to produce only items with unique characteristics."
"His resulting career-spanning works, the so-called 'Non-Fungible Trivialities' ( or NFTs ), were widely hailed as beautiful, highly collectible, while simultaneously being almost entirely useless for any purpose."
"The Temporally-Restricted, Colour-Activated, Unbalanced Winkle-Picker you hold in your hand is one such NFT".

I think I should send that to Swen; he'd probably have it included in patch 8 smile
Posted By: Dustmen Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 17/03/22 01:23 AM
It should also be remembered that more magic equals more danger, or the magic would have already eliminated the danger. So more monsters, more monsters that use magic, and deadlier higher level threats. If your character is literally tripping over magical items in the wild, those magical items are there because the previous owners died. From the sounds of how many magical items are floating around, perhaps an eye tyrant should be wandering the area.
Posted By: RagnarokCzD Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 17/03/22 08:52 AM
Originally Posted by etonbears
I just prefer there to be some reasonable justification as to WHY any wizard would have gone to the trouble and expense of actually creating an item, which is not always clear in BG3.
Could you provide some example?

Since they all seems perfectly reasonable to me. O_o

Maybe except those gloves that gives you free jump when ypu sprint ... those should most certainly be boots in my honest opiion. Or belt that wouldp be also acceptable.
Posted By: Maximuuus Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 17/03/22 12:51 PM
Originally Posted by GM4Him
Weapons in BG3 be like, "Dragon's Clasp Axe - If your target is on fire, you deal an extra 1d4 damage.
Weapons in D&D be like, "Longsword of Life Stealing - When you roll a 20 on an attack roll, that target takes an extra 3d6 necrotic damage. You gain temporary hit points equal to the extra damage dealt."

BG3 = you need to first set an enemy on fire, THEN you can acquire the benefits of the weapon.
D&D = there is a chance with each attack roll that you can acquire the benefits of the weapon.

There's a huge difference here. BG3, you have to meet the right conditions. D&D, you always have a chance to achieve success with the item. You don't have to first do this, then do that. It just either happens or it doesn't. (Some exceptions do apply, naturally.)

This sums up pretty well what I don't like in BG3's items.
Too many items are like that.

There's also too many balance issues imo.

In exemple the Club of Hill Giant Strenght that is absolutely weak for a "giant strenght" item... It would be better if this 1D4 weapon was a +1 weapon and if the strenght was set to 20 rather than 15. Weak damages + decent % to hit + strong strenght modifier. Now this weapon just has nothing.
On the other hand you have the Saphirre Spark that makes your Gale absolutely overpowered.
Posted By: GM4Him Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 17/03/22 02:59 PM
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by GM4Him
Weapons in BG3 be like, "Dragon's Clasp Axe - If your target is on fire, you deal an extra 1d4 damage.
Weapons in D&D be like, "Longsword of Life Stealing - When you roll a 20 on an attack roll, that target takes an extra 3d6 necrotic damage. You gain temporary hit points equal to the extra damage dealt."

BG3 = you need to first set an enemy on fire, THEN you can acquire the benefits of the weapon.
D&D = there is a chance with each attack roll that you can acquire the benefits of the weapon.

There's a huge difference here. BG3, you have to meet the right conditions. D&D, you always have a chance to achieve success with the item. You don't have to first do this, then do that. It just either happens or it doesn't. (Some exceptions do apply, naturally.)

This sums up pretty well what I don't like in BG3's items.
Too many items are like that.

There's also too many balance issues imo.

In exemple the Club of Hill Giant Strenght that is absolutely weak for a "giant strenght" item... It would be better if this 1D4 weapon was a +1 weapon and if the strenght was set to 20 rather than 15. Weak damages + decent % to hit + strong strenght modifier. Now this weapon just has nothing.
On the other hand you have the Saphirre Spark that makes your Gale absolutely overpowered.

You know, we don't always agree on everything, but every time you post, I find myself wanting to see what you have to say. And here, again, spot on, especially about Gale's Sapphire Spark. I'm REALLY worried about this game once they lift the level cap. Wizards are going to reign supreme in this game. People just don't see the raging storm that's coming. I don't know how Larian is going to reign it all in. We are going to see some absolutely ridiculous stuff once we're at level 5 and beyond. That's the path we're on presently, anyway.
Posted By: Gt27mustang Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 17/03/22 06:13 PM
Originally Posted by GM4Him
I'm REALLY worried about this game once they lift the level cap. Wizards are going to reign supreme in this game. People just don't see the raging storm that's coming. I don't know how Larian is going to reign it all in. We are going to see some absolutely ridiculous stuff once we're at level 5 and beyond. That's the path we're on presently, anyway.

Kind of like how Mages in BG2 absolutely wrecked the game once they could access even limited crowd control and AoE spells? Never mind timestops, wishes,...
Posted By: GM4Him Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 17/03/22 06:31 PM
Originally Posted by Gt27mustang
Originally Posted by GM4Him
I'm REALLY worried about this game once they lift the level cap. Wizards are going to reign supreme in this game. People just don't see the raging storm that's coming. I don't know how Larian is going to reign it all in. We are going to see some absolutely ridiculous stuff once we're at level 5 and beyond. That's the path we're on presently, anyway.

Kind of like how Mages in BG2 absolutely wrecked the game once they could access even limited crowd control and AoE spells? Never mind timestops, wishes,...

Wizards are supposed to be tougher at higher levels. They are supposed to have AoE spells that do serious damage. That's their role. However, what limits them are things like position on the map and their spell slots and the fact that they should only be able to cast one spell per round. Also, items don't typically increase a wizard's potential. You don't normally have things like, "If your enemy is on fire, you get to deal an extra 1d4 fire damage," or "if your enemy is standing in water, you do an extra whatever amount of lightning damage if you use lightning attack."

What I'm seeing is wizards will be able to:

1. Cast all their spells in every battle and then long rest after without restraint to replenish all their spells for the next fight.
2. Items that increase the wizard's potential.
3. The ability to cast Misty Step as a Bonus action so the wizard can maneuver easier into a good position and then cast Fireball or Lightning Bolt more effectively because you can cast a Bonus action spell and an Action spell in the same round, regardless of level - thus making wizards teleporting high-powered damage dealers who can keep away from melee attackers pretty effectively. I mean, you can use Dash and run your fighter right up to a wizard to get into melee range to try to force the wizard to use Disengage or Misty Step so he can't cast Fireball on your party - this you can do in normal D&D - but in BG3, if you try this maneuver, the wizard can literally just Misty or Far Step away from you at least 30 feet, move an additional 30 feet, to put you at least 60 feet away so you have to Dash again to get up to him, and then throw a Fireball at you in the same turn - or whatever the wizard feels like throwing at you. Maybe Magic Missiles at Level 3 spell slot so he's sure to hit you with 5d4+5 damage with 0 chance of missing you...
4. Or how about this: You run up to the wizard, he casts Enlarge and positions himself so he can shove you 15 feet of a ledge for a 1-Hit KO. Shove is not an Action. It's a Bonus. So you, the Strength 18 Barbarian with +7 Athletics goes up against a Wizard who has just cast Enlarge on himself to become a Large character. Now the Wizard gets advantage on Strength checks, which Shove is a Strength check. You roll a 9+7=16 Yeah! Pretty good roll, right? Well, too bad. Weakling Wizard with Strength has 0 Athletics, but he rolls a 7 and a 17. 17 wins! Shoves you, the Strength 18 Barbarian, off the cliff so you drop 300 feet to your death. All done in 1 round because Wizard can cast a spell as an Action and Shove someone 15+ feet as a Bonus action, both in the same round.

How do I know that's a potential? Because the dang Duergar do it to me at Grymforge in the temple entrance fight with Thrinn and Nere. Lae'zel was 30 feet away. Duergar Enlarges and Shoves. Bye bye Lae'zel. You had Strength 18 and Athletics + 7, but Duergar just enlarged AND shoved in the same round, hurling you 30+ feet into lava.

Wait until a 10 strength wizard does that later in the game to you. Oh yeah. REALLY worried about wizards in this game.
Posted By: etonbears Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 17/03/22 09:20 PM
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by etonbears
I just prefer there to be some reasonable justification as to WHY any wizard would have gone to the trouble and expense of actually creating an item, which is not always clear in BG3.
Could you provide some example?

Since they all seems perfectly reasonable to me. O_o

Maybe except those gloves that gives you free jump when ypu sprint ... those should most certainly be boots in my honest opiion. Or belt that wouldp be also acceptable.

OK, I'll give an example of one weapon I like, and one I that seems like it's a Non-Fungible Triviality.

The Shattered Flail is something I consider a great magic weapon design. The base item is described as a primitive collection of bones, and it has a low base damage. It has a simple, straightforward hit/damage bonus, but has the potential drawback of Yeenoghu's Gift ( going berserk, attacking randomly ), which is both described in the item text, and learned from the encounter. And, of course, it is used against you before you can acquire it.

The Blooded Greataxe, by contrast, is something I consider a questionable magic weapon design. It is purchased from a merchant, it has no background to explain why it exists ( or what influenced it's maker to create it ), and will be of no use most of the time, as the magic effect only triggers when the weilder has low hit points, which is something most players would seek to avoid. There is probably no "strategy" to use this weapon, rather it is something you would use if you had found nothing better. Even a standard non-magical 2H sword ( also slashing damage, so equivalent ) would be a better choice overall, and would probably cost less to buy from the same merchant.

I haven't bothered to count the number of good designs compared with questionable designs, but I did get the impression while playing that I thought "WTF?" rather more often than I usually do with games.

A little more thought could probably improve many of the items that seem weird/out of place, but there are probably better things for Larian to work on if I'm honest.
Posted By: Gt27mustang Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 18/03/22 12:29 PM
Originally Posted by GM4Him
Originally Posted by Gt27mustang
Originally Posted by GM4Him
I'm REALLY worried about this game once they lift the level cap. Wizards are going to reign supreme in this game. People just don't see the raging storm that's coming. I don't know how Larian is going to reign it all in. We are going to see some absolutely ridiculous stuff once we're at level 5 and beyond. That's the path we're on presently, anyway.

Kind of like how Mages in BG2 absolutely wrecked the game once they could access even limited crowd control and AoE spells? Never mind timestops, wishes,...

Wizards are supposed to be tougher at higher levels. They are supposed to have AoE spells that do serious damage. That's their role. However, what limits them are things like position on the map and their spell slots and the fact that they should only be able to cast one spell per round. Also, items don't typically increase a wizard's potential. You don't normally have things like, "If your enemy is on fire, you get to deal an extra 1d4 fire damage," or "if your enemy is standing in water, you do an extra whatever amount of lightning damage if you use lightning attack."

What I'm seeing is wizards will be able to:

1. Cast all their spells in every battle and then long rest after without restraint to replenish all their spells for the next fight.
2. Items that increase the wizard's potential.
3. The ability to cast Misty Step as a Bonus action so the wizard can maneuver easier into a good position and then cast Fireball or Lightning Bolt more effectively because you can cast a Bonus action spell and an Action spell in the same round, regardless of level - thus making wizards teleporting high-powered damage dealers who can keep away from melee attackers pretty effectively. I mean, you can use Dash and run your fighter right up to a wizard to get into melee range to try to force the wizard to use Disengage or Misty Step so he can't cast Fireball on your party - this you can do in normal D&D - but in BG3, if you try this maneuver, the wizard can literally just Misty or Far Step away from you at least 30 feet, move an additional 30 feet, to put you at least 60 feet away so you have to Dash again to get up to him, and then throw a Fireball at you in the same turn - or whatever the wizard feels like throwing at you. Maybe Magic Missiles at Level 3 spell slot so he's sure to hit you with 5d4+5 damage with 0 chance of missing you...
4. Or how about this: You run up to the wizard, he casts Enlarge and positions himself so he can shove you 15 feet of a ledge for a 1-Hit KO. Shove is not an Action. It's a Bonus. So you, the Strength 18 Barbarian with +7 Athletics goes up against a Wizard who has just cast Enlarge on himself to become a Large character. Now the Wizard gets advantage on Strength checks, which Shove is a Strength check. You roll a 9+7=16 Yeah! Pretty good roll, right? Well, too bad. Weakling Wizard with Strength has 0 Athletics, but he rolls a 7 and a 17. 17 wins! Shoves you, the Strength 18 Barbarian, off the cliff so you drop 300 feet to your death. All done in 1 round because Wizard can cast a spell as an Action and Shove someone 15+ feet as a Bonus action, both in the same round.

How do I know that's a potential? Because the dang Duergar do it to me at Grymforge in the temple entrance fight with Thrinn and Nere. Lae'zel was 30 feet away. Duergar Enlarges and Shoves. Bye bye Lae'zel. You had Strength 18 and Athletics + 7, but Duergar just enlarged AND shoved in the same round, hurling you 30+ feet into lava.

Wait until a 10 strength wizard does that later in the game to you. Oh yeah. REALLY worried about wizards in this game.

1- Pretty much the same as you could do in BG1 and BG2, where resting was unrestricted. At least now you need supplies.

2- Been there, done that in previous BG games also. The sheer quantity of wands, robes, rings, amulets and whatnot strictly for wizards is staggering and transforms them into weapons of mass destruction.

3- This is actually a function of DnD 5E. Yes, the wizard is made now so he is able to get out of harms way really fast. But I think they were intended to be this way. 5E wizards have had many of their spells nerfed but they are now much more evasive, with bonus actions now and the ability to cast 2 spells per round. The thing I do agree with you on that argument is the Misty Step spell: I think it should maybe be of a higher level and not as a bonus action. The wizard should not be able to flee and attack in the same round. Again, a product of 5E.

4- This, I agree with you. Shove is really poorly implemented. It's true that an enlarged person should be able to push a smaller person, even if that person is stronger, just because of the weight difference alone. But just not 30 feet away, that is silly. It's pure Larianism.
Posted By: RagnarokCzD Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 18/03/22 01:04 PM
Originally Posted by etonbears
The Blooded Greataxe, by contrast, is something I consider a questionable magic weapon design. It is purchased from a merchant, it has no background to explain why it exists ( or what influenced it's maker to create it )
I see ...

Well i gues if you are here often enough, you should allready expect me to tell you my opinion on the matter. laugh
And if you are not ... well, suprise then. laugh

I see what you mean, its a little odd to imagine someone creating enchantment and thinking for himself like:
"lets make this activate only after wielder of this artefact will be seriously vounded" ...
That much is indeed true. laugh

Personaly i never thought about it like that i gues. O_o

I mean you see in movies so often so it no longer even surprise you (especialy lately) as Hero gets horrible beating, and then he "catch a second breath" and stand up with new power, even stronger than anyone could possibly imagine. laugh
So i guess i allways seen 50% effects as just empowering this "second breat / adrenaline pump up" thing. laugh

But i gues there is allways some head cannon i can do. laugh

Originally Posted by etonbears
and will be of no use most of the time, as the magic effect only triggers when the weilder has low hit points, which is something most players would seek to avoid. There is probably no "strategy" to use this weapon
Are we talking from roleplay, or game mechanic perspective?

Since theese items really intrigued me ... so i experimented a little. smile
And i have found that they are working only for base HP (read as: Temporary HP seems to be ignored for calculation) ... my first idea was Barbarian ... since he allready have quite a lot of HP ... and while Raging meele damages are halved (Wildheart Bear, almost every damage) ... so i wanted to test how will theese items be effective ...
Also it seemed reasonable to me that the more will Barbarian be injured, the more he will be angry, wich would fuel both his strength and resilience ... yes, just like Hulk. laugh

Then i find out (purely by coincidence) that when you aply some Bonus HP ... like 15 Temporary HP from this gloves ... but probably even from other sources, like Armor of Agathys, or False Life ...
You can easily reach almost your regular amoung of HP ... while keeping bonuses from 50% weapons. smile

My gues for strategy is that this is the way. laugh
Posted By: Maximuuus Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 18/03/22 01:56 PM
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
I mean you see in movies so often so it no longer even surprise you (especialy lately) as Hero gets horrible beating, and then he "catch a second breath" and stand up with new power, even stronger than anyone could possibly imagine. laugh
So i guess i allways seen 50% effects as just empowering this "second breat / adrenaline pump up" thing. laugh

I agree with you on this one.
An axe that could feel the rage of a wounded fighter through its hands to deal "+xDx damages" would not be so wtf to me, but with a few IF :

- If it was a single item. There are way too many items with this conditions in BG3, including a full set of armor.
- If it was a usefull weapon all the time with an additionnal bonus under specific condition.

Lots of items + gimmicky item does not help to make them "believable". It only serves the gameplay, a gameplay that (as Etonbears said) most players will try to avoid.

A helmet that gives you +1 bonus action (makes your character faster if you're wounded than if you're not)
An amulet that makes you avoid AOO (makes your character faster if you're wounded than if you're not)
Gloves that gives you fire resistance (makes your character more resistant if you're wounded)
An armor that gives you +1 damage (an armor that makes your character hit harder if you're wounded)

A common greataxe that only deals an additionnal +3.5 damages if you're seriously wounded.
2 common shortsword, a common greatsword, a common longsword and a common heavy crossbow that only deals an additionnal +2.5 average damage if you're seriously wounded.

Just get rid of these armors and the greataxe + upgrade the Githyanki weapons and everything would be fine IMO. +1 weapons with +1D4 damages if you're wounded.
Easy explanations (not sure there's a lot of lore yet about githyanki weapons, but I may be wrong), usefull weapons or at least equivalent compared to those you have already found, powerfull weapons if you're ready to handle a hard condition.

I could also have said +1D6 rather than +1D4 because I'd enjoy so much to find +1 weapon dealing +1D4 "element" damage without any conditions in act 1...
Posted By: RagnarokCzD Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 18/03/22 02:07 PM
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
a gameplay that (as Etonbears said) most players will try to avoid
I gues we all should be alowed to ruin our game any way we want. laugh
Posted By: etonbears Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 19/03/22 10:41 PM
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
I mean you see in movies so often so it no longer even surprise you (especialy lately) as Hero gets horrible beating, and then he "catch a second breath" and stand up with new power, even stronger than anyone could possibly imagine. laugh
So i guess i allways seen 50% effects as just empowering this "second breat / adrenaline pump up" thing. laugh

But i gues there is allways some head cannon i can do. laugh
I have thousands of books, but no, I haven't watched TV for 30 years, as I found it overwhelmingly ( and increasingly ) a poor use of my time. Similarly for films, I usually only watch them on long-haul flights, on recommendation from a film-buff friend. Typically, his recommendations do not include Marvel/DC stories.

On the other hand, many games have used the "Second Wind" concept ( so many that it probably counts as a trope by now ), but it is usually a discrete, triggered event, not tied to the current value of a character attribute.

But, if any of this helps you head-canon BG3 magic items, then great, I'm happy for you. I would simply prefer the actual explanation to be part of the design process Larian employ, and am suggesting they may like to pay more attention to that process, in the interests of the quality of their product. If this is not something you care about, that is also fine, and I'm sure Larian will note that you don't care.

Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Since theese items really intrigued me ... so i experimented a little. smile
And i have found that they are working only for base HP (read as: Temporary HP seems to be ignored for calculation) ... my first idea was Barbarian ... since he allready have quite a lot of HP ... and while Raging meele damages are halved (Wildheart Bear, almost every damage) ... so i wanted to test how will theese items be effective ...
Also it seemed reasonable to me that the more will Barbarian be injured, the more he will be angry, wich would fuel both his strength and resilience ... yes, just like Hulk. laugh

Then i find out (purely by coincidence) that when you aply some Bonus HP ... like 15 Temporary HP from this gloves ... but probably even from other sources, like Armor of Agathys, or False Life ...
You can easily reach almost your regular amoung of HP ... while keeping bonuses from 50% weapons. smile

My gues for strategy is that this is the way. laugh

Urmm... additional temporary hitpoints just improve your maximum health. In my opinion, it's still a better strategy to use a higher base damage weapon regardless of health, than try to manage your health pool to get a bonus with a generally inferior weapon. I consider this a marginal use-case, at best, but if that is how you want to play the game, then go for it smile

I could definitely get behind a magic weapon that is limited to, say, barbarian use while raging ( or not raging ), or was part of a set, so required some other item to activate it, or anything really, so long as there were a clear explanation given for the item in-game, and it had a valid use-case.

And, of course, we haven't had any cursed items yet ( I think ). Blooded Greataxe would be a great low-level cursed item if damage was reduced when you were NOT bloodied, but increased while bloodied, picked up from the corpse of, say, a dead barbarian, imbued with the power of a dying curse.

Whatever. Most RPGs are improved by not looking like they are generated from random content.
Posted By: Sozz Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 20/03/22 06:33 AM
Bloodied used to be a big thing in 4e. If you want a game where fighting ability is affected by HP, D&D isn't it.
Posted By: RagnarokCzD Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 20/03/22 07:57 AM
Originally Posted by etonbears
it's still a better strategy to use a higher base damage weapon regardless of health, than try to manage your health pool to get a bonus
Maybe ...
All i can say is that it was fun. ^_^
Posted By: etonbears Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 20/03/22 02:19 PM
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by etonbears
it's still a better strategy to use a higher base damage weapon regardless of health, than try to manage your health pool to get a bonus
Maybe ...
All i can say is that it was fun. ^_^

Well, there has certainly been plenty of time to try out non-optimal but fun ways of playing the game smile
Posted By: RagnarokCzD Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 01/04/22 03:02 PM
I think i have found another one:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Posted By: mrfuji3 Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 01/04/22 03:18 PM
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
I think i have found another one:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Why and how? Why would someone in Faerun create such a magical item, and how does an armor help you deal piercing damage but only when you're wounded? Does your blood seep into the armor, which then powers it up and it shoots hardened blood needles at your opponents, but timed to only occur when you make an attack???

At the very least, since the armor is clearly an OFFENSIVE item, the description should reflect that: "-the lives of those the shirt has taken"
Posted By: RagnarokCzD Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 01/04/22 03:29 PM
I dont think it needs "you" to make an attack ...
It sound more like regular thorn aura, but only under 50%
Posted By: Maximuuus Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 01/04/22 03:57 PM
Originally Posted by mrfuji3
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
I think i have found another one:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Why and how? Why would someone in Faerun create such a magical item, and how does an armor help you deal piercing damage but only when you're wounded? Does your blood seep into the armor, which then powers it up and it shoots hardened blood needles at your opponents, but timed to only occur when you make an attack???

At the very least, since the armor is clearly an OFFENSIVE item, the description should reflect that: "-the lives of those the shirt has taken"

At the very least, they should just stop creating such non sense items...
Posted By: geala Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 01/04/22 08:08 PM
Such a mail shirt indeed does not make much sense. Although the question of sense in a magical high fantasy world may make no sense too. The shirt, if it's an aura, why are magical attacks from near not punished? If the wearer needs to attack, why does the shirt only help you if a melee attack hits you? Perhaps the maker was drunk or had a strange kind of humor?

Generally, my biggest concern with magical items is wether you need them or not. For me often it's a fashion choice. For example the Barbarian gloves giving 15 hp after rage has ended: it gives you also a blueish aura which I find, like all magical effects, extremely ugly. Therefore I sold the gloves asap. I also will never wear boots as Barbarian, or a helmet. If you needed strong items to keep pace with enemies, say on "Normal", that would be bad.
Posted By: mrfuji3 Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 01/04/22 08:16 PM
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
I dont think it needs "you" to make an attack ...
It sound more like regular thorn aura, but only under 50%
Oh, true, I slightly misread the item. My mistake. I suppose "when is damaged by an attack" is a good enough proxy for "enemy gets very close to your armor"

Still, it doesn't really make sense that it happens only when <50% health. Is it feeding off of my blood and/or using that blood to deal this damage? That's a kind of cool idea, but not at all supported by the description. And imo a better item would be "you take 1 point of damage each turn, but in exchange if an enemy hits you they get dealt 1d4 piercing damage."
Posted By: RagnarokCzD Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 01/04/22 10:17 PM
That indeed would be better. :3
Posted By: OcO Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 02/04/22 12:38 AM
Wouldn't work, you'd be dead seconds after combat ended and it wasn't turn based any more.

Edit: To clarify the damage would probably tick off to fast in real time to be able to out heal.
Posted By: mrfuji3 Re: Patch 7 new items ! - 02/04/22 02:23 AM
Originally Posted by OcO
Wouldn't work, you'd be dead seconds after combat ended and it wasn't turn based any more.

Edit: To clarify the damage would probably tick off to fast in real time to be able to out heal.
True. You could either have it only activate during combat because magic, or make it an activatable item. Or it only activates after you get attacked, and stays active for like 10 rounds, refreshing the timer every time you get attacked.
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