Larian Studios
Posted By: GM4Him DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 01/07/22 08:40 PM
Ok. They came down big in price. Now there's no question. Getting DOS2 on Steam.

Question is... What package? The base game for like $18? The original DOS game + DOS2 for $23? Eternal for $50 including soundtrack, maps, etc?

Ah! I just don't know.

Sale ends July 7th.
Posted By: Zerubbabel Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 01/07/22 09:02 PM
I'd go original package. I didn't like DOS1 very much, but DOS2 was killer. Choose an origin character, it's worth it.
Posted By: machinus Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 01/07/22 09:12 PM
DOS1 >>> DOS2.

For some reason, people swooned over the tired drama of the plot in dos2, but the combat system is awful, which is what matters.
Posted By: Wormerine Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 01/07/22 10:06 PM
I too preferred D:OS1 - it feels more “pure” to me. D:OS2 tried to satisfy players wanting more classic RPG experience (story companions etc) but IMO didn’t make a better game for it. I would go for both if you don’t mind adding those couple extra quid.

Both games are better with a friend.
Posted By: Zerubbabel Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 01/07/22 10:08 PM
Originally Posted by Wormerine
I too preferred D:OS1 - it feels more “pure” to me. D:OS2 tried to satisfy players wanting more classic RPG experience (story companions etc) but IMO didn’t make a better game for it. I would go for both if you don’t mind adding those couple extra quid.

Both games are better with a friend.

My DOS1 experience was much better with multiplayer than singleplayer, but I found DOS2 to be enjoyable alone.
Posted By: machinus Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 02/07/22 01:19 AM
DOS1 was much more rewarding to design characters and win battles in. Also, Kirill smile
Posted By: GM4Him Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 02/07/22 03:35 AM
Went with just DOS2 for now. Wanna see what it's like. Everybody says BG3 is SO much like it. Now, I'll see the differences myself.

And frankly, if it's half as good as BG3, I should have a blast.
Posted By: Zerubbabel Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 02/07/22 09:54 PM
In my opinion, and this is a very specific opinion, so I understand if many people disagree with me:
Choose an origin character. Get a full party. Make each character specialize in something, but don't be afraid to branch out a bit. There's fun in rangers, fun in rogues, fun in casters, (a bit less) fun in fighters, but you can mix and match your class. And don't feel stuck because you eventually get a mirror that can let you respec and remake and rebalance your characters. And try to explore and do everything in a certain way.
Posted By: machinus Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 02/07/22 10:56 PM
I never played any origin stories either game. I don't feel like I missed anything important.
Posted By: Ruswarr Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 02/07/22 11:24 PM
The issue with not going for an origin character is (as far as I know) that custom characters don't really have any additional interaction compared to origin characters - something that Larian seem to want to avert with Tav.
You don't miss anything major but you're also... just there for the ride. Considering the party lock, you're essentially trading a tailored questline that goes through the most of game for ability to fully customize your looks and get a generic Source ability.
Posted By: machinus Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 02/07/22 11:52 PM
There are great mods that allow you to fully customize your character. The Larian teen drama plots are not missed smile
Posted By: Zerubbabel Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 03/07/22 01:11 AM
Originally Posted by machinus
There are great mods that allow you to fully customize your character. The Larian teen drama plots are not missed smile

Just a quick question, Machinus. Do you regard all the character-driven dramatic storytelling in DOS2 as "woke teen drama," or is it specific story beats or a style that is reoccurring which is woke or adolescent in nature/quality? I find that the character-driven dramatic storytelling is great for providing additional context and motivation for the actions we choose to take, something that was lacking in DOS1. I would love to hear your take on it because I feel it would enhance my understanding of what makes good character-driven RPG writing.
Posted By: machinus Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 03/07/22 02:27 AM
Originally Posted by Zerubbabel
Originally Posted by machinus
There are great mods that allow you to fully customize your character. The Larian teen drama plots are not missed smile

Just a quick question, Machinus. Do you regard all the character-driven dramatic storytelling in DOS2 as "woke teen drama," or is it specific story beats or a style that is reoccurring which is woke or adolescent in nature/quality? I find that the character-driven dramatic storytelling is great for providing additional context and motivation for the actions we choose to take, something that was lacking in DOS1. I would love to hear your take on it because I feel it would enhance my understanding of what makes good character-driven RPG writing.

No, there are also some traditional RPG storylines in DOS, like the gothic cult quests in DOS1, and the deathfog conspiracy in DOS2. Some settings of the DOS games are interesting and for adults. The dialogue is not well written, though, and the "origin" characters, especially in DOS2, seem to be targeted at a very young internet audience, almost like the game was made to be memed and turned into short video clips. The tone and style of Larian's storytelling is not for adults. I never felt like either game created a believable or consistent universe, though. Few games create meaningful player choices, and the jarring NPC behavior and sloppy quest systems in these games don't, either.

The point of D&D is making your own unique character. I don't see the appeal of going through someone else's plot. These are Swen's characters, not mine. I realize it is hard to DM in advance, but giving me 20 options for skin color and 0 options for alignment provides nothing intetesting to the player.
Posted By: Ussnorway Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 03/07/22 06:21 AM
off topic much?
Posted By: GM4Him Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 29/07/22 05:21 AM
OK. Been playing DOS 2, and my hopes for BG3 are increasing a lot. I have to say, with all the bad mouthing Larian and DOS 2 and such from various people on this forum, I was thinking that DOS 2 was really gonna suck. I don't even like the premise of a journey to becoming a deity or whatever.

But I've been quite pleasantly surprised. I started out playing it on Classic Mode with a custom character, and I managed to get out of Fort Joy into the marshes. That's when things went south. I decided to start over on Story Mode, for the combat does require a bit of a learning curve for me. I'm not used to all the surfaces and stats and how everything works, so it was getting more than a little frustrating.

But Story Mode has been going VERY well, and I've been enjoying it a lot. Several things I noticed:

1. Item Management is SO much better in DOS 2. I feel like everything has purpose and meaning - crafting, cooking, every weapon and item - and I don't feel like my inventory is overly cluttered. I also don't feel like it's difficult to move things around or buy and sell things. This gives me hope that BG3's Item Management will be just fine once the game is fully released. Items will be useful for crafting - even spoons and such - and it won't feel so pointless to pick up everything and the kitchen sink.

2. Resting mechanics are a bit TOO easy. I mean. Bedroll. Full health. There's literally nothing to it. I can see now why so many DOS 2 fans are so up in arms about any kind of restrictions on resting for BG3. Magic is virtually everything in DOS 2, while in D&D it is quite limited. All this to say, please, Larian. I understand there are a lot of fans of DOS 2 who love this kind of resting system and virtually limitless magic, but DOS 2's magic system is WAY different from D&D's. We still very much need a more restrictive resting system. We just do. I still have hopes that you will do something to make long and short rests more strategic and meaningful.

3. Dialogues don't allow you to switch characters. Once someone starts a dialogue, you can't switch it to someone else. I really hope you allow this for BG3. It drives me crazy when Astarion is, for some reason, suddenly thrown into a dialogue, and he sucks at certain skills that the dialogue calls for, but the character who is really good at said skills just sits there doing nothing. Let us switch characters out or at least take advantage of our party member's skills. I noticed that while traveling with Beast in DOS 2, when I open chests and stuff, I get to take advantage of his Luck bonus or whatever it's called for treasure chests. Why not at least apply the same thing for BG3? You need to convince Kagha to not kill Arabella, so the game gives you the option to have your persuasive cleric MC take the lead in that part of the conversation. Meanwhile, at the entrance to the dank crypt, when you're trying to trick the guy guarding the door using Deception, it'd be awesome to have the option to let my rogue MC with Deception Expertise lead the conversation instead of Lae'zel who I had leading the way.

4. Camera. Oh my gosh! The camera is worse in DOS 2. I almost always have to be zoomed out to see where I'm going. If the camera was tilted down just a little bit more, I'd be able to be in drive mode like a lot of MMORPGs or just plain video games period. Just let us tilt that camera a bit more in BG3 especially so that when we're going up hills we can keep it zoomed in.

5. Chain system/ pathing. It works better in DOS 2... sometimes. I notice that characters still have a tendency to run into poison surfaces, fiery surfaces, etc. especially when I switch between characters. Like others have said before, can we please at least make it so the characters don't move unless I tell the selected character to move somewhere? Just switching between characters shouldn't cause them to all come running up to the selected character. When I'm bouncing around between characters, it's like watching them all dance. I will say this, though. BG3 has come a long way on this. The Group and Group Stealth buttons are a tremendous improvement.

6. Party Management. I know others have said this before, but I feel it a lot in DOS 2. It is way too clunky to switch party members in and out. I'd REALLY like something more like Neverwinter Nights 2 where you just get a popup menu that lists the characters and you can pick who you want in the party and viola. Done. All this going up to them and talking to them to dismiss them and then going up to the one you want and inviting them to join you - and having them say the same things over and over again each time - it's redundant and time consuming. I felt it a lot more in Fort Joy because I dismissed Fane and Red Prince, and I wanted to get Red Prince back and had to go hunting for him. At least in BG3 they're all at camp for you. Even still, having to go to camp and get them is a pain in the butt and unnecessary.

7. Astarion and Sebille. Too similar. I REALLY would like a different meeting scene with Astarion besides a Sebille knockoff. She puts a needle to your throat... Astarion puts a dagger to your throat. They're both rogues. It's really unnecessary. Can we have a meeting with Astarion that's friendlier? I really think he'd be a bit more cunning and deceptive and manipulative rather than stick a dagger to our throats when he's outnumbered - especially if you have a cleric standing there (Shadowheart). Wouldn't he be just a bit concerned she might blast him with a holy spell or something? Either way, I get that he wants answers about what the mind flayers did to him, and for some reason he thinks you know, but there are better ways to get answers from people besides grabbing them and attempting to force them to talk by knife point. Besides, it wouldn't even need to get to that because you could simply have him connect with the MC and viola. No need for him to threaten you. None at all.

8. Speaking with Animals. Wow. It really is quite similar in DOS 2. The animals are all very similar to BG3 animals. I don't know what I expected, but I do feel like the animals from DOS 2 were brought into Faerun. They're all very cheaky, and some are a bit mean and rude. The first time the sheep in DOS 2 kicked my character, I thought about slicing it up with my knives. That said, I'm kinda enjoying Pet Pal. So, it's not necessarily a complaint. It is certainly more interesting than some games portray animals. I mean, they're not boring. I particularly enjoyed throwing the ball in the room full of guard dogs, and the leader was the one to chase it. And I like saving the one dog who the magisters were trying to corrupt. In BG3, I like the squirrels complaining about the bard's horrible singing, and I enjoy some of the animal interactions.

Anyway. That's probably enough for now. I just wanted you to know that I do think DOS 2 is a good game, and it gives me hope for BG3's end product. You guys are doing a good job with it overall. I have been enjoying the Bard class a lot - more than I thought I would. I don't normally like bards, but you've made it fun. I like playing tunes and having people come up and listen and make comments. I like that the bard has to make a Performance check to see how well she plays for the crowd. I like the smart-butt comments for Vicious Mockery and such. Overall, it's been a positive experience, and I can't wait for Full Release.

Oh...one last thing. Body types! Character creation REALLY needs them. I noticed each race in DOS 2 has a set body type and that's it. PLEASE do not do that for BG3. I want to create a half-orc as big as Halsin, but I also want to be able to create a half-orc that's a regular sized human. Likewise, I'd love to create a human barbarian as big as Halsin or a scrawny human mage that looks almost like your elves in DOS 2 (okay, so not THAT thin).

Anyway. Keep up the good work!
Posted By: Saito Hikari Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 29/07/22 07:16 AM
I'd like to see your thoughts after you finish act 1. Act 1 is very well designed and is some of the best gaming I've ever had, but the game undergoes a major balance shift the moment you step into act 2 on multiple levels. The way the overall balance shifts immediately after act 1 ends is why some of us are concerned about the long term encounter design of BG3. You probably won't know what we mean until you experience it for yourself. Though to be fair, the real culprits behind DOS2's polarizing endgame won't be a problem in BG3.

DOS2 is also fully balanced around the idea that you're going into every fight with all your resources. Pre-buffing before a fight is possible too, though not very important. Honestly, I've always found the debates around the frequency of resting in BG3 to be rather inconsequential, everyone will rest however many times they want as long as there's no penalty for it. The only real problem with it is how many cutscenes are locked behind resting, which shifts the argument from a difference in playing style to outright missing out on content.

Oh, if you want maximum manipulation, I advise giving everyone 2 points in Aeroteurge in order to give everyone the ability to cast Teleport. That coupled with one other similar spell (which lets you swap the placement of two characters, which can include corpses on the field) available from Act 2 onwards basically lets your entire party move most enemies wherever the hell you want. It's super worth it, and since both spells are pure utility rather than damaging, they work well with any build. Though this might make the game too easy depending on how well you are able to capitalize on this - it's the sort of thing you'd use in Tactician difficulty to make fights much more favorable for yourself. You probably won't be able to give that spell to everyone in Act 1 without some major metagame knowledge though, due to a combination of the spellbook cost along with what happens to the first Aeroteurge vendor in most cases. There is a second vendor but you may forget to check back every time she restocks the book.
Posted By: Wormerine Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 29/07/22 08:35 AM
Yeah act2 is what really soured me toward D:OS2. It is pretty clear which part of the game was extensively tested. I hope the same won't happen to BG3 - we didn't even get to titular city.

Chain control isn't a massive problem there due to armor system - especially as you level up, the traps and surfaces don't really keep up with damage, so your characters running through them isn't really an issue (or traps in general).

Story mode should keep things nice and easy for you - if you encounter issues then remember that your gears level is the most important thing to succeed - power gain is mostly distributed through gear. Once you level up a higher level of gear can be dropped or bought. Especially in act2 I found it crucial to re-equip as much of my party as possible after every lvl up.
Posted By: Tuco Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 29/07/22 11:31 AM
Originally Posted by Wormerine
Chain control isn't a massive problem there due to armor system - especially as you level up, the traps and surfaces don't really keep up with damage, so your characters running through them isn't really an issue (or traps in general).
It's also a game where health regenerates at will out of combat, so it's not like generally speaking losing half of your HP means much as long as you stay alive for the next five seconds.

Anyway, I still liked most of the *content* of ACT 2 in DOS2 a lot, actually. What I noticed, on the other hand, is that the *systems* started to show all sort of problems due poor mechanics or poor balance, when not a combination of both.
The armor system's influence on the encounter design for instance became progressively worse as numbers started to bloat more and more. And the same went on with itemization. As loot became more abundant AND more bloated in values, it also became quickly clear that "keeping up" with the steep leveling curve across the entire party was turning more and more in an exercise in self-inflicted tedium than an exciting endeavor in getting stronger.

Absolutely not a fan of having to chase randomized "lucky refreshes" in vendor inventories when looking for upgrade, either.


Quote
Story mode should keep things nice and easy for you.
A bit TOO easy, in fact.
Posted By: GM4Him Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 29/07/22 12:30 PM
Well. Thanks for the encouraging words. I am so excited to continue DOS 2 now, and even more hopeful for the future of BG3.

Maybe I need another hobby.
Posted By: Gt27mustang Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 29/07/22 05:26 PM
As was said above: random Diablo-style itemzation (Violent holy frost bastard sword of...whatever) , constant upgrade of items (like, reloading to see if the vendors have better gear to sell) and, god, the armor system...

If you can get past that, it's a really solid game.
Posted By: GM4Him Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 29/07/22 08:27 PM
Man. The pep talk continues. Glad I spent $20 bucks on this game. I can't wait.

Eh heck! The first act is probably worth $20 at least. But DANG! You guys are really making me worried about how the rest of the game is going to go. I'm back to pretty much expecting that this game is totally going to suck and I'm going to hate it. Maybe I'll just go back to Wrath of the Righteous or Kingmaker or Solasta.

Or maybe I'll get into sports and skip the whole genre. I mean, after all, I can't really remember the last time a video game ended in a way that I thought was super awesome. Maybe KOTOR. Nah. TOR ended well - the main story anyway.

No. Wait. BG1 and I did like Dragonspear. BG2s ending was pretty good, but Throne of Bhaal... not so much. I was actually quite underwhelmed by TOB. It was just too predictable. I thought, "Was that supposed to surprise me? Nah. Guessed the whole thing. Saw it a MILE away.
Posted By: Saito Hikari Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 29/07/22 08:27 PM
Yeah, I'd say continue. It's still a good game to experience as there's not much else like it, and to give yourself a clearer understanding on Larian's overall design philosophy, but don't put it on an unreachable pedestal like half the community is all too happy to do. Things aren't quite as dire as it may sound, and the flaws don't really become that apparent until you reach the last third of the game, hence most reviews not mentioning them at all.

I'd say DOS1 was much more consistent in quality, though the start is VERY slow. I actually ended up liking DOS1 way more than I though it would, and would also argue that the second half of DOS1 is much stronger than the second half of DOS2, and I say this as someone who played DOS1 after DOS2.
Posted By: kanisatha Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 30/07/22 03:00 PM
Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
I'd say DOS1 was much more consistent in quality, though the start is VERY slow. I actually ended up liking DOS1 way more than I though it would, and would also argue that the second half of DOS1 is much stronger than the second half of DOS2, and I say this as someone who played DOS1 after DOS2.
It's very interesting you say this, because I am one of those people who played D:OS1 and did NOT care for it at all. I especially did not care for the world/setting, the story, the characters, and the writing. The mechanics were okay, though of course I'm generally not a fan of TB combat. So then on the basis of this experience, I have not had any interest in playing D:OS2. But a lot of people on game forums keep telling me I should, because "D:OS2 is a much better game than D:OS1." But from all of my own research of D:OS2, including several hours of watching Youtube videos and streams, D:OS2 is better than 1 only in mechanics and gameplay, but even worse than 1 in all the other RPG elements as I've listed them above (which are the things most important to me).
Posted By: Saito Hikari Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 30/07/22 05:15 PM
Originally Posted by kanisatha
It's very interesting you say this, because I am one of those people who played D:OS1 and did NOT care for it at all. I especially did not care for the world/setting, the story, the characters, and the writing. The mechanics were okay, though of course I'm generally not a fan of TB combat. So then on the basis of this experience, I have not had any interest in playing D:OS2. But a lot of people on game forums keep telling me I should, because "D:OS2 is a much better game than D:OS1." But from all of my own research of D:OS2, including several hours of watching Youtube videos and streams, D:OS2 is better than 1 only in mechanics and gameplay, but even worse than 1 in all the other RPG elements as I've listed them above (which are the things most important to me).

Yeah, DOS2 is ironically more of a combat simulator compared to 1. There were far more varied environments and puzzles in DOS1, probably because the devs realized the sheer amount of mobility skills in DOS2 trivializes them to the point where it was pointless to implement more. DOS2 also has points of no return after every act due to how the plot is structured, while DOS1 doesn't.

It's much better in the combat department and the writing isn't as cheesy as in DOS1, but there's some caveats in regards to the combat late game that a lot of people conveniently don't bring up when recommending DOS2 (or never got far enough in the game to see the issues that arise, I've noticed over the years that quite a number of people praising DOS2 end up admitting later that they never actually got past act 2 for whatever reason, usually multiplayer-only players whose groups fell apart halfway through the game). Opinions almost universally sour the moment people step into Acts 3 and 4, and it was to the point where the Definitive Edition was aimed towards rebalancing and redesigning Act 4 especially.
Posted By: kanisatha Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 30/07/22 05:24 PM
Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
Originally Posted by kanisatha
It's very interesting you say this, because I am one of those people who played D:OS1 and did NOT care for it at all. I especially did not care for the world/setting, the story, the characters, and the writing. The mechanics were okay, though of course I'm generally not a fan of TB combat. So then on the basis of this experience, I have not had any interest in playing D:OS2. But a lot of people on game forums keep telling me I should, because "D:OS2 is a much better game than D:OS1." But from all of my own research of D:OS2, including several hours of watching Youtube videos and streams, D:OS2 is better than 1 only in mechanics and gameplay, but even worse than 1 in all the other RPG elements as I've listed them above (which are the things most important to me).

Yeah, DOS2 is ironically more of a combat simulator compared to 1. There were far more varied environments and puzzles in DOS1, probably because the devs realized the sheer amount of mobility skills in DOS2 trivializes them to the point where it was pointless to implement more. DOS2 also has points of no return after every act due to how the plot is structured, while DOS1 doesn't.

It's much better in the combat department and the writing isn't as cheesy as in DOS1, but there's some caveats in regards to the combat late game that a lot of people conveniently don't bring up when recommending DOS2 (or never got far enough in the game to see the issues that arise, I've noticed over the years that quite a number of people praising DOS2 end up admitting later that they never actually got past act 2 for whatever reason, usually multiplayer-only players whose groups fell apart halfway through the game). Opinions almost universally sour the moment people step into Acts 3 and 4, and it was to the point where the Definitive Edition was aimed towards rebalancing and redesigning Act 4 especially.
Thanks for the feedback.
Posted By: Wormerine Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 30/07/22 05:28 PM
Originally Posted by kanisatha
It's very interesting you say this, because I am one of those people who played D:OS1 and did NOT care for it at all. I especially did not care for the world/setting, the story, the characters, and the writing. The mechanics were okay, though of course I'm generally not a fan of TB combat.
Yes. Though for me D:OS2 didn’t improve in that regard, but forced me to spend more time on the bad part of the game. D:OS1 is more straightforward with what it is, IMO is better for it - if you treat it as coop, combat oriented dungeon crawler.

Personally, I enjoyed 1 act the most, but it could be because that’s the part as played in coop. I finished the full game in singleplayer.
Posted By: GM4Him Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 30/07/22 07:02 PM
So far, I really like DOS 2, except for a few items:

Elves. Cannibals. Seriously. It's creepy. Definitely creative, but for someone who likes elves, it was a shock, and I did not like it. They're also too emaciated and scary looking. I view them as horror story versions of elves.

A good amount of healing magic is Necromancy. I tried creating a cleric and they gave me Necromancy spells and such. Again. Creative as most games associate Necromancy with Evil magic. Regardless, I don't like it.

Origin companion choices are, again, a bit unattractive. The Red Prince is insulting and totally arrogant. Sebille, like Astarion, puts a weapon to my throat as soon as I meet her. Fane is also a butt and arrogant. So, I like Lohse, Ifan and Beast. At least a full party. But I hardly know them, so I hope I at least continue to like them. I'm a bit leery.

Other than that, it's good. I like Pathfinder and Solasta a bit more so far, but that could change. I'm still not totally familiar with the combat system, but it's growing on me. Reminds me almost of Pokemon. Lightning beats water. Water beats fire. 😁
Posted By: Ragitsu Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 30/07/22 08:05 PM
Originally Posted by GM4Him
A good amount of healing magic is Necromancy. I tried creating a cleric and they gave me Necromancy spells and such. Again. Creative as most games associate Necromancy with Evil magic. Regardless, I don't like it.

In AD&D 2e, the Necromancy Sphere contains the magic responsible for restoring life.
Posted By: GM4Him Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 30/07/22 08:18 PM
Ok. Fine. So maybe not THAT creative. Still don't like necromancy.
Posted By: Tuco Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 31/07/22 12:57 PM
Maybe memory is failing me, but.. Isn't water magic the "healing-focused" branch in DOS 2?
Posted By: GM4Him Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 31/07/22 01:33 PM
Originally Posted by Tuco
Maybe memory is failing me, but.. Isn't water magic the "healing-focused" branch in DOS 2?

It has the Regenerate spell. So far, that's it.

All I know is that when I created a cleric, default was to build up Necromancy and starter magic was Necrotic.
Posted By: Saito Hikari Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 31/07/22 06:28 PM
Yeah, Hydrosophist is the main healing magic branch, while Necromancy is the indirect 'lifesteal/heal by inflicting damage' branch. IIRC leveling Hydrosophist also increases the potency of direct healing spells, while leveling Necromancy increases the amount of lifesteal. You've probably noticed by now that Hydrosophist/Aeroteurge (more support/crowd control-oriented) and Pyromancer/Geomancy (more damage-oriented) combo very well together, but mixing any combination of elements other than those two might have mixed results (especially since things like the wet/frozen status effect lowers damage inflicted from fire spells and vice-versa for warm/burning).

Ironically, since most Necromancy spells are considered physical damage, leveling Warfare also boosts Necromancy damage. EVERYONE utilizing physical damage wants to level Warfare, including archers, even if they have no use for the majority of the skills.

The end of act 1 fight is considered one of the hardest fights in the game, and I think my easiest run of that on Tactician with a more traditional party setup (as in, not going all in on stacking either magical or physical damage, utilizing a 2-2 spread instead) was when I had a Hydrosophist/Aeroteurge-focused mage and a Necromancy/Hydrosophist/Summoner-focused mage. The enemy AI really doesn't know what to do when half the floor is frozen or electrocuted. They are generally far more willing to walk through fire or oil, but prioritizes avoiding ice or electrified surfaces due to their potential in outright canceling turns.

(I usually specced Fane as a Necromancy/Hydrosophist/Summoner mage, though the Hydrosophist is usually to support my actual Hydrosophist/Aeroteurge mage in crowd control, and summons provide even further support in that department. I tend to have him wielding a shield and wand, which makes him rather tanky, and would give him enough points in Warfare to learn Battle Stomp or whatever that AoE knockdown move was along with Shield Toss and Phoenix Dive. The power of Shield Toss actually scales off of your shield's armor amount most of all. He won't do much damage attacking with that wand, but it's more of a field effect manipulator and stat stick late-game. Battle Stomp doesn't do much damage with this build, but it still knocks down anyone without armor.)

IIRC there was a chart floating around years ago in which people calculated that Aeroteurge spells on average actually inflicted the most magic damage of all elemental types per AP spent, but there are less offensive Aeroteurge spells and some are conditional/more difficult to use without getting your allies caught in the crossfire. A lot of the calculation was also skewed by that 1 AP spell (Pressure Spike, from Act 2 onwards) that additionally turns cloud effects into surfaces, and it also does quite a lot of damage for a 1 AP ability. It's also one of the very few large AoE spells that doesn't have friendly fire.
Posted By: GM4Him Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 01/08/22 03:16 AM
Another thing I noticed is that BG3 camp really does break a lot of mechanics that even worked better in DOS. Weight limitations, for example. You had to carry everything with you in DOS. No Send to Camp. So, encumbrance was a thing because you didn't have infinite storage at camp.

Granted, it's ridiculous in both games how much you can carry in your magic pockets.

Oh yeah. Really? You carried over magic pockets? Larian! Come on. You don't carry over things like that from one world to another. That's acceptable for one universe. You don't do it for a different one.

That's like having a lightsaber in Star Trek.

But anyway. It bugs me to no end that DOS 2 has campsites and bedrolls and you can make camp right there in the world, but BG3 is some phantom other plane of existence. It breaks immersion so much and provides endless storage, makes many items you find, like campfires and bedrolls, obsolete. Frankly. DOS 2 is better in this regard... Well... So far anyway.

Remove the phantom camp. Make it so you can switch out companions with a menu and not have to dismiss them with dialogue. Make Short Rest and long rest locations on the map that you have to find and go to instead of just buttons on the UI. Switch out companions button on UI. Yes. Not rest.

Short Rest locations are benches, chairs, etc. Long rest are campfires and bedrolls. Stuff like that. SO much better than what BG3 has now.
Posted By: Tuco Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 01/08/22 03:25 AM
Originally Posted by GM4Him
Another thing I noticed is that BG3 camp really does break a lot of mechanics that even worked better in DOS. Weight limitations, for example. You had to carry everything with you in DOS. No Send to Camp.
Yet.
You'll go past Act 1 at some point.
Posted By: Saito Hikari Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 01/08/22 08:29 PM
I remember getting to the stash in DOS2 was very inconvenient, because you had to fast travel back to where it was and then go through a few flights of stairs to reach it. It even took me a moment to remember that there even WAS a stash to begin with. I generally only ever sent keys to the stash after I was done using them so they wouldn't clog up my inventory.

Then again, the game doesn't really incentivize holding onto outdated unique gear due to the sheer quantity of them combined with how the itemization worked in that game, unless you had plans to upgrade a specific piece of gear to your current level if you have the related options turned on. Hoarder mentality is not something you want to deal with in DOS2.

Oh, the main things you should be aware of in regards to the crafting system for DOS2 consists of the following:

Mortar and Pestle + any Bone = Bonemeal
Mortar and Pestle + Starflower I think it was called? = Stardust
Stardust + Bonemeal = Pixie Dust

You can combine two smaller runes of the same type to create an upgraded version. I think after a certain point, you need to add Pixie Dust to upgrade any further.

You can also combine the elemental spellbooks with skillbooks of every other type to create a hybrid skillbook. You probably found that Blood Rain skill somewhere in Fort Joy, which can be normally created by combining a Hydrosophist book + Necromancy book. There's other ones like Hydrosophist + Warfare which creates a skillbook that teaches you a powerful touch range heal that also cleanses the Decaying status effect (though you need 1 point in Hydrosophist AND Warfare to use it, obviously).

There's a list of hybrid skills here:

https://divinityoriginalsin2.wiki.fextralife.com/Crafted+Skills

Also, if you have a strength-focused character, I highly recommend taking a 1 level dip into Polymorph so you can use Tentacle Lash. It's a high power longer range attack, and it causes the Atrophy status effect after you strip them of physical armor, which disarms them for 1 turn. Incredibly useful.
Posted By: gaymer Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 01/08/22 09:41 PM
Once you start making Masterwork Runes or any Runes for all available slots = gg.

Not even Tactician stat bloat can handle the damage output a party can do in the opening turn with everyone knowing Adrenaline.
Posted By: Wormerine Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 02/08/22 07:13 AM
Originally Posted by GM4Him
I'm still not totally familiar with the combat system, but it's growing on me. Reminds me almost of Pokemon. Water beats fire. 😁
Combat has a lot of potential. It was praised for good reason. D:OS1 had more traditional resistances making different enemies susceptible to different effects, but D:OS2 went for binary shields, which IMO greatly impacted combat in a negative way.

We can talk more once you play more. Wouldn’t want to spoil your fun. You are still at the stage where combat is developing and complexity grows with regular income of new skills.
Posted By: GM4Him Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 03/08/22 05:17 PM
Boy, you weren't kidding. Story mode has become way too easy now. Got to the same spot and beyond where I left off on Classic mode, and enemies are so easy, I'm not nervous at all wherever I go. Is there no in between? I felt like I couldn't get anywhere in my previous playthrough without getting my butt handed to me. Now I almost waltzed into Alexander with just my MC because I thought maybe I could take him.

The armor is a bit ridiculous, and it is a bit weird that I kept going back to the same vendor within seconds of leaving him, and he had new armor I could buy that was better. I didn't even mean to. I'd buy stuff, equip it, and go back to the guy to sell what I unequipped and thought, "Wait. Was that there a minute ago? Oh well. Yoink."

I just feel like I'm too OP now. That's not as much fun. Still, I'm on Story Mode, and in terms of story, I'm still enjoying it.
Posted By: Wormerine Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 03/08/22 06:57 PM
I can't speak for StoryMode. I found Normal to be alright, with couple difficulty spikes here and there. Act2 can be frustrating but that's mostly because you can easily run into content that outlevels you and you need to figure out in what order you are supposed to do it.

Personally, once I understood how equipment works, I found the game managable. My initial mistake was not to upgrate gear after level ups, as itimization in D:OS is tedious and boring as hell.
Posted By: Saito Hikari Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 03/08/22 08:43 PM
Things do get more manageable as you gain more experience with the system. Is there no option to bump the difficulty back up to Normal, or is everything already set in stone? I haven't played with the game's difficulty settings in years.
Posted By: Boblawblah Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 03/08/22 09:12 PM
i haven't picked up DoS2 in years. Did they ever change anything about how the xp system worked? I remember having to do literally everything at the beginning of the game just to be close to the monster levels. I know endgame gets busted, but the early game killed all enjoyment of the game for me. I never got past the 2nd area because of it.
Posted By: Wormerine Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 03/08/22 09:28 PM
Originally Posted by Boblawblah
i haven't picked up DoS2 in years. Did they ever change anything about how the xp system worked? I remember having to do literally everything at the beginning of the game just to be close to the monster levels. I know endgame gets busted, but the early game killed all enjoyment of the game for me. I never got past the 2nd area because of it.
It was like that the last time I played. One could get ahead of XP curve by the end of chapter 2 but first couple tenths of hours require a very completionists attitude.
Posted By: GM4Him Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 04/08/22 10:17 PM
Oh no! I'm really feeling it. Not even off Fort Joy and the item management is getting too much, just like BG3 by the time you get to the Underdark.

Less is more! LESS IS MORE!

I'm losing hope for BG3. DOS 2 was hailed as awesome, so I thought I'd feel better about BG3. Instead, I'm losing hope.
Posted By: Saito Hikari Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 04/08/22 10:23 PM
I would usually reach endgame with like half a screen worth of crafting materials and potions. After thinking on it, my advice is: Don't hoard them. Use them. I never really did and now I recognize the game would probably be a lot easier for the majority of people if you dispose of hoarder mentality.

It's worth noting you can combine smaller potions to make stronger ones. But like runes, after a while you need certain flowers called Augmentors to craft the strongest ones.

There's a lot of random useful stuff you can craft. Like...

Any bladed weapon + teeth = Shocking arrowhead (you retain the bladed weapon afterwards)
Any bladed weapon + antler = Knockdown arrowhead
Arrowhead + Jar of Honey = Charm Arrow (you also get an empty honey jar out of this, which can be refilled at certain beehives, this is super abusable early into act 2 especially when you consider charm arrows sell for a fortune)
Arrowhead + any source of oil = Slowing Arrowhead (they do slightly higher than normal physical damage. If the source of oil is an oil barrel, said barrel is resuable)
Arrowhead + any source of water = Water Arrowhead (If the source of water is a water barrel, said barrel is reusable)
Arrowhead + poison barrel = Poison Arrowhead
Shocking Arrowhead + any source of water = Static Cloud Arrowhead
Posted By: Tuco Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 04/08/22 10:31 PM
Originally Posted by GM4Him
Oh no! I'm really feeling it. Not even off Fort Joy and the item management is getting too much, just like BG3 by the time you get to the Underdark.

Less is more! LESS IS MORE!

I'm losing hope for BG3. DOS 2 was hailed as awesome, so I thought I'd feel better about BG3. Instead, I'm losing hope.

Oh no, DOS 2 will be much, MUCH worse than BG3 when it comes inventory management.

You'll deal with ten times the amount of loot... And you'll basically required to refresh it constantly, as well (as in: most items tend to be more or less obsolete two levels above when you find them).

My suggestion is to NOT get too attached to random shit.
Sell things often, keep only the absolute best.
Posted By: GM4Him Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 05/08/22 12:22 AM
Yeah. Especially on Story Mode, my goodness, I never need potions, food, NOTHING. It's bad. Story Mode means you literally breeze through. But man! I really don't want to start over again. Ugh.
Posted By: Saito Hikari Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 05/08/22 02:14 AM
There's A LOT of random ass crafting materials all over the place in DOS2, and I don't expect BG3 to go anywhere close to touching DOS2's special brand of inventory fuckery for that reason alone. It looks like BG3 is actually distancing itself from any kind of elaborate crafting system now, though you can tell that they were considering it at first with all the random herbs you could occasionally find (that weren't highlighted when holding onto the highlight button).

DOS2 had such an elaborate crafting system to the point where you could craft scrolls into blank spellbooks to learn a spell, and you could craft random ass ingredients and essences into scrolls. This usually wasn't very worth it though, outside of one fringe case I can think of where I believe you could learn the Tornado spell (which clears out ALL surfaces, -including cursed fire and deathfog-) or Superconductor like 3-4 levels earlier than when they first start appearing in shops, because certain NPCs carried the specific crafting materials needed to forge a skillbook for those spells. But you wouldn't know this from normal gameplay at all.

But yeah, you realistically never had any use for like 90% of the recipes in that game.
Posted By: GM4Him Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 05/08/22 02:43 AM
It's seriously too much. It is bringing back memories of various BG3 playthroughs once I got to the Underdark. I remember feeling so over-itemized that I stopped looking for items. Even when I did my party of 6 playthrough, every character had top gear by the Underdark and I felt like what was the point of finding new stuff? I had plenty already of everything I needed, and item management was starting to become the game for me. I was frankly sick of all the crap and I just didn't want anymore. I remember even dropping items instead of selling them because I had plenty of money and didn't need anymore.

That's how I'm feeling in DOS 2 right now. Haven't even left Joy and I feel like I'm maxed out.

I really do not want to start over, so I'll probably start ignoring items until things start to get even remotely hard. I don't know. This is starting to be no fun, but starting over on classic again doesn't appeal either.

Man! I'm getting worried about BG3. It's either going to be booty easy or hard as nails.
Posted By: gaymer Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 05/08/22 03:58 AM
You can't ignore items in the game. Because of the system, you need to change items every level.
Posted By: Tuco Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 05/08/22 09:26 AM
Not exactly “every level, but yeah, the way the system is purposely tuned means that your best “Unique” item at level 10 will probably be outclassed by an average “Common” by level 12.
Save for a handful of Unique it’s also worth stressing that every other find is randomly generated and randomly placed, so you can’t make some mental map of your ideal setup but make work for you whatever you’ll find.

In fact having Lucky charm maxed means you’ll constantly trip over “Epic” items opening random containers.
On top of that, merchants’ inventories are refreshed every time you level up or after a certain amount of time.

I said this in the past: I’m not a fan of this type of frantic hunt for better items even in single-character hack’n’slash like Diablo, but whoever decided this system would be a good fit for a party-based game where you have to “refresh” the equipment of a lot of characters was horribly misguided.

Then there’s the very questionable mismatch between a game with a finite number of non-repeatable encounters and items being unreliability random.
Posted By: Saito Hikari Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 08/08/22 07:48 PM
So... Status update?

I keep forgetting that it is worth noting that the magic schools don't actually scale off of weapon damage (or well, the vast majority of them don't to my knowledge), and scale entirely off of your Intelligence score + elemental modifiers from levels in each magic school and so on. Since you won't really be regular attacking with your mages late-game, it is best to hold onto wands and staves for their stat bonuses and pay no mind to their base attack values. Basically stat sticks.

This also means that you don't have much of a need to keep upgrading wands and staves as much, until you find one with better secondary bonuses (like higher critical hit rate and intelligence bonuses, or access to certain skills that you normally can't use without drastically altering your current build otherwise). Critical modifiers are especially valuable, even moreso after you consider that the definitive edition slashed critical hit rate bonuses in half from the base version.

Stuff like this is also why (IMO) full mage runs are far easier than full physical runs in this game. Sure, you're generally squishier against physical attacks, but when you play this game at a super high level of tactical knowledge, you begin to realize that your positioning is your primary defense in this game to begin with. Not to mention most attacks that can hit you from range target your magic armor to begin with.
Posted By: virion Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 09/08/22 03:33 PM
Eh. Dos2 really is all about CC + Teleport skill on each character. This way you don't have to move during fights. Like at all. Or if you have to you can do so for 1 point. Kinda annoying. I had a blast discovering it though during my first playthrought. Once you know how it works it becomes easy. Way too easy.

G4M you asked if there's an in-between ? Well..there isn't. That's the main issue I think. It's still a good RPG though.
Posted By: gaymer Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 15/08/22 06:31 PM
What's going on with the run? Guess he didn't make it.
Posted By: Wormerine Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 15/08/22 07:02 PM
From "Fear" thread:
Originally Posted by GM4Him
And I'm playing DOS 2 right now as well. I'm not feeling the love and thus not super excited anymore to finish either. Back to Pathfinder Kingmaker and WotR maybe. And maybe I'll play more of the Solasta DLC Lost Valley.
Posted By: gaymer Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 15/08/22 07:33 PM
Damn, didn't even make it to Act 2 there
Posted By: Zerubbabel Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 15/08/22 07:37 PM
I don't think one can properly judge the game until partways through Act 2. Or at the end of Act 2. A lot of things are there that are not on Reaper's Eye, feature speaking. Also, wondering what GM's party is.
Posted By: GM4Him Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 15/08/22 09:09 PM
I'll keep playing it. I think I just needed a break especially after the negativity I've been reading on the forum here about both BG3 and DOS games. It's hard sometimes to feel very motivated to play a game people bash to pieces so much.

I'm playing a Rogue named Brin - so Custom Character. I couldn't help it. I REALLY like custom characters, and there was no one that I thought, "I really want to play that person's story." I figured that I'd play as a Custom and then if there are any Origin Characters I really like I'd go back and play as that person to get the full impact of their story. That's kinda my plan for BG3 too.

Yeah... maybe that's backwards as you can't really BE that person on a second playthrough, but whatever. Honestly, I've been a DM for so long, and I have developed stories/characters on the fly so many times that I've gotten pretty good at putting myself in just about any character's shoes to act as I think that character would act - as if I don't know what's coming in the story. So, it probably won't change my future gameplay much.

My party is Lohse, Ifan and Beast. So far, they are the only characters I even remotely like, and the jury's not in yet on any of them. Lohse is my favorite, though, but her being possessed by some crazy evil spirit thing - whatever it is - has me a bit hesitant to want to get too close to her too. I'm thinking she might knife me in my sleep. Ifan too. He's some crazy Lone Wolf guy who's hunting what now? Oh yeah... ME! And Beast... I don't know enough about him other than he's a pirate. So...

I can't help but think of the song "Professional Pirate" from Muppet Treasure Island when it comes to Beast. "Some say that pirates steal, and should be feared and hated. I say we're victims of bad press, it's all exaggerated. We'd never stab you in the back [pirate gets stabbed in the back with a knife right in front of him]. We'd never lie or cheat. We're just about the nicest guys ya'd ever want to meet." Smiley winky face!

So Lohse's my second in command, basically. I buff my main first and Lohse second. Then Beast and lastly Ifan. Beast is my physical fighter/tank and Lohse is my magic DPS. Ifan is my ranged huntsman support person.

I'm almost done with Fort Joy, I think. About to face Alexander. Game's glitched a few times in weird ways. For example: some seer lady in the Seeker camp was dead for no reason, so I couldn't ever talk to her even though it gave me the quest to do so and people told me to. She's laying dead right in front of them, and they're like, "Talk to her."

The item management is what's getting me the most right now. I feel like all I ever do is pick things up and sort them and try to figure out what's good and what's not. I've given up on crafting altogether because I don't need to, so I have a lot of crafting items that I don't really need and I'm thinking if I just sell them it'll make me happier. Too much inventory clutter. Gives me no hope for BG3's item management at all. I had the same issue with BG3 when I got to the Underdark. Suddenly, I started not caring about picking up anything, even magic items. I already had everything I needed and often vendors sold things that were better than anything I picked up. So why bother?

You just got Phalar Aluve. It's a super special magic sword that they made a big deal about. Checks inventory. "Um. I already have weapons that are way better. Guess I'll sell it." Wha wha!

I'm experiencing the same thing in DOS 2. Picks up new gloves from a secret chest. Armor is only slightly better than what I have and the gloves I have allow me to teleport people. Sigh. Add it to the pile to sell.

Speaking of teleport, though, I DO love that spell. I also love the levitating items to wherever I want. Then I got to thinking. "Why the heck didn't they implement Mage Hand just like the whole levitating items thing in DOS 2? From a distance you can levitate items to spots you want them to go to with a glowing hand animation or you can use it to open doors, pull levers, etc. Then, if you're an Arcane Trickster, there is no animation, but the mechanics are the same - adding picking locks and picking pockets to the possible options of what you can do with it. Why'd they come up with a weird hand minion who can fight instead?"

Anyway. I liked the silver dragon, but I hated the witch part associated with it. She was nasty, and what I didn't like was that I wasn't given very good dialogue options. Also, none of my companions came to my rescue to stop her from kissing me and spewing insects or whatever into me. So, I didn't have a choice but to be weirdly and creepily messed with, and no one thought to come to my aid. I did NOT Like that scene at all. I was pretty mad that I didn't even have the option to just plain attack her (unless, of course, I triggered the attack without talking to her at all).

I DID like the choices, though, like whether I should put the crucified out of their misery or leave them to see if I could save them for later. I put them out of their misery. Then I found out a way I could have potentially saved them. Nice. That's the kind of stuff I like. You sit there and wonder, "Am I making the right choice? Should I do this? Should I not?" I don't like when choices are obvious. That's kinda my biggest critique of Solasta. VERY obvious choices, if you even have any.

Finally, I found some crazy door, and all I could think of was Necromancer's Lair in BG3. Really? Way too similar. This is part of what's making me so worried now about BG3. How many OBVIOUS things are they going to just copy/paste from DOS 2? Astarion/Sebille, Escaping being a prisoner on a ship in the prologue, animals that are all rude and sassy, surfaces, party of 4, no day/night, etc. etc. etc.

Anyway, that's my update.
Posted By: Saito Hikari Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 15/08/22 09:40 PM
Those three party members are honestly probably the most stable throughout. Beast is generally considered the most forgettable though, but it’s likely a symptom of him not really having anything crazy going on compared to the rest of the party. Loshe is great throughout, and actually the only party member you can later ask for her opinion on various important NPCs you’ve met.

Fane is very obviously the writer’s pet, you miss out on a lot of background lore without him. Though he was written by Avellone (just without the typical angst his characters usually have), which shows.

I think Avellone also wrote Nok-Nok in Kingmaker, who was also not angsty at all.
Posted By: Wormerine Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 15/08/22 09:47 PM
Originally Posted by GM4Him
Anyway. I liked the silver dragon, but I hated the witch part associated with it. She was nasty, and what I didn't like was that I wasn't given very good dialogue options. Also, none of my companions came to my rescue to stop her from kissing me and spewing insects or whatever into me. So, I didn't have a choice but to be weirdly and creepily messed with, and no one thought to come to my aid. I did NOT Like that scene at all. I was pretty mad that I didn't even have the option to just plain attack her (unless, of course, I triggered the attack without talking to her at all).
They evolved companions in BG3, but I think that in D:OS2 you shouldn't think of them as "companions" - rather recruitable NPCs with some unique content. What I mean by that is that can interfere precisely in the way you describe - you can switch to other party member during conversation and attack the witch - that is something that could happen in COOP, but as a solo player you are by yourself - companions aren't robust enough to fill for lack of players.

I must say, this lack of ability to attack through dialogue does feel off to me, too. I can't decide if it's my expectation (years of RPGs restricting player choice mostly to pre-written conversation trees) or if it is something in Larian design that is off. Afterall, if I remember correctly Fallout1&2 has for the most part worked similarly - a lot of paths were behind mechanical interactions rather then layed out conversation options. There is something about D:OS2 and BG3 where I feel like I am breaking a quest when I do this stuff - it feels to me like I forfit game content, rather then make a choice.
Posted By: virion Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 15/08/22 09:58 PM
Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
Those three party members are honestly probably the most stable throughout. Beast is generally considered the most forgettable though, but it’s likely a symptom of him not really having anything crazy going on compared to the rest of the party. Loshe is great throughout, and actually the only party member you can later ask for her opinion on various important NPCs you’ve met.

Fane is very obviously the writer’s pet, you miss out on a lot of background lore without him. Though he was written by Avellone (just without the typical angst his characters usually have), which shows.

I think Avellone also wrote Nok-Nok in Kingmaker, who was also not angsty at all.
Yup, I would switch Ifan for Fane anytime. Way more interesting back story. Also, I just disliked ifan. When I played with him I just spent half of the playthrough wondering when will his personality evolve or become a bit more interesting. It never did.
Posted By: Zerubbabel Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 15/08/22 10:15 PM
Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
Those three party members are honestly probably the most stable throughout. Beast is generally considered the most forgettable though, but it’s likely a symptom of him not really having anything crazy going on compared to the rest of the party. Loshe is great throughout, and actually the only party member you can later ask for her opinion on various important NPCs you’ve met.

Fane is very obviously the writer’s pet, you miss out on a lot of background lore without him. Though he was written by Avellone (just without the typical angst his characters usually have), which shows.

I think Avellone also wrote Nok-Nok in Kingmaker, who was also not angsty at all.
Fane is almost necessary for a whole lot of lore. I played as him in my second playthrough, and never recruited him in the first. In terms of lore, arc, personality, and plot satisfaction, I would rank the companions in highest amount of attention given to the lowest:
1. Fane (VERY Significant to main plot, in every Act.)
2. Ifan (Significant to main plot)
3. Lohse (Like Fane, she is fun and "different" from the other companions)
4. Sebille (Her story climaxes WAY too early, otherwise she'd be higher)
5. Red Prince (He was my Origin character in my first playthrough. His plot is so aggressively tangential to everything happening in the game that it's laughable. A lot of companions have 'tacked on' stories in RPGs, which is basically the rule for a lot of Bioware companions, but in a game where several characters have plots that directly relate to the major events and characters of the game... it's really bad)
6. Beast (In the reverse of Sebille, his story isn't covered that much until near the end of the game. His plot does get good, but it's only near the end.)

GM, I'd advise swapping Beast for Fane before fighting Alexander. Unless you're fine waiting a long time for real payoff on Beast's story. Fane is relevant in every Act.

Edit: If Sebille's plot didn't just... stop, I would place her between Fane and Ifan.
Posted By: virion Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 15/08/22 10:21 PM
Originally Posted by Zerubbabel
Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
Those three party members are honestly probably the most stable throughout. Beast is generally considered the most forgettable though, but it’s likely a symptom of him not really having anything crazy going on compared to the rest of the party. Loshe is great throughout, and actually the only party member you can later ask for her opinion on various important NPCs you’ve met.

Fane is very obviously the writer’s pet, you miss out on a lot of background lore without him. Though he was written by Avellone (just without the typical angst his characters usually have), which shows.

I think Avellone also wrote Nok-Nok in Kingmaker, who was also not angsty at all.
Fane is almost necessary for a whole lot of lore. I played as him in my second playthrough, and never recruited him in the first. In terms of lore, arc, personality, and plot satisfaction, I would rank the companions in highest amount of attention given to the lowest:
1. Fane (VERY Significant to main plot, in every Act.)
2. Ifan (Significant to main plot)
3. Lohse (Like Fane, she is fun and "different" from the other companions)
4. Sebille (Her story climaxes WAY too early, otherwise she'd be higher)
5. Red Prince (He was my Origin character in my first playthrough. His plot is so aggressively tangential to everything happening in the game that it's laughable. A lot of companions have 'tacked on' stories in RPGs, which is basically the rule for a lot of Bioware companions, but in a game where several characters have plots that directly relate to the major events and characters of the game... it's really bad)
6. Beast (In the reverse of Sebille, his story isn't covered that much until near the end of the game. His plot does get good, but it's only near the end.)

GM, I'd advise swapping Beast for Fane before fighting Alexander. Unless you're fine waiting a long time for real payoff on Beast's story. Fane is relevant in every Act.

How is Ifan relevant to the main plot? I mean don't spoil it for GM but if you can explain this in 2-3 sentences and put it under "spoiler" brackets I would be glad. Cause god knows for me he felt like the most irrelevant person in the entire game.
Posted By: Zerubbabel Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 15/08/22 10:40 PM
Originally Posted by virion
Originally Posted by Zerubbabel
Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
Those three party members are honestly probably the most stable throughout. Beast is generally considered the most forgettable though, but it’s likely a symptom of him not really having anything crazy going on compared to the rest of the party. Loshe is great throughout, and actually the only party member you can later ask for her opinion on various important NPCs you’ve met.

Fane is very obviously the writer’s pet, you miss out on a lot of background lore without him. Though he was written by Avellone (just without the typical angst his characters usually have), which shows.

I think Avellone also wrote Nok-Nok in Kingmaker, who was also not angsty at all.
Fane is almost necessary for a whole lot of lore. I played as him in my second playthrough, and never recruited him in the first. In terms of lore, arc, personality, and plot satisfaction, I would rank the companions in highest amount of attention given to the lowest:
1. Fane (VERY Significant to main plot, in every Act.)
2. Ifan (Significant to main plot)
3. Lohse (Like Fane, she is fun and "different" from the other companions)
4. Sebille (Her story climaxes WAY too early, otherwise she'd be higher)
5. Red Prince (He was my Origin character in my first playthrough. His plot is so aggressively tangential to everything happening in the game that it's laughable. A lot of companions have 'tacked on' stories in RPGs, which is basically the rule for a lot of Bioware companions, but in a game where several characters have plots that directly relate to the major events and characters of the game... it's really bad)
6. Beast (In the reverse of Sebille, his story isn't covered that much until near the end of the game. His plot does get good, but it's only near the end.)

GM, I'd advise swapping Beast for Fane before fighting Alexander. Unless you're fine waiting a long time for real payoff on Beast's story. Fane is relevant in every Act.

How is Ifan relevant to the main plot? I mean don't spoil it for GM but if you can explain this in 2-3 sentences and put it under "spoiler" brackets I would be glad. Cause god knows for me he felt like the most irrelevant person in the entire game.

MAJOR MAJOR DOS2 Spoilers.
Admittedly, I haven't finished by playthrough with Ifan. He's a Lone Wolf with a past with both Lucian and Alexander, and was part of the first Deathfog Conspiracy on the elves, albeit unwittingly. I haven't taken Ifan to Lucian yet, so I don't know if there's a unique reaction, but having Alexander as his foil in the first and third Acts is nice. In the second Act, you have him in the Underground and with the Lone Wolves. If I had to break it down, each companion has a specific way they tie to the main story, but some are more prominent then others.
1. Fane: Tied to the Eternals plot, Divines plot, Voidwoken and Sworn Plot, and is tied to the Endgame plot and its final boss.
2. Ifan: Tied to the Divine Order plot, Lone Wolves plot, Alexander plot, and the Lucian plot.
3. Lohse: Tied to the Demons plot and Malady.
4. Sebille: Tied to the Lone Wolves plot, the Elven People plot, and the Shadow Prince plot (which is sort of its own thing? Shadow Prince is only relevant to Sebille and Red Prince, not the whole story).
5. Red Prince: Tied to the Dragons plot and the Shadow Prince plot. The Dragon plot has fuck all to do with the rest of the game. The Shadow Prince plot is only also relevant to Sebille.
6. Beast: Tied to the Dwarves plot and the Second Deathfog Conspiracy.

Overall, I would say the order of relevance to the main plot is: Fane, Ifan, Sebille, Beast, Lohse, Red Prince.
Given the role of Braccus Rex is Act 1 and the endgame, it would have been nice to have Tarquin as a Companion/Origin. Sometimes it seems like he was supposed to be one?
Edit: Non-spoiler summary: Fane and Ifan are like the Morrigan and Alistair of DOS2 in terms of plot relevance.
Posted By: Zerubbabel Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 16/08/22 03:40 AM
Originally Posted by Zerubbabel
Originally Posted by virion
Originally Posted by Zerubbabel
Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
Those three party members are honestly probably the most stable throughout. Beast is generally considered the most forgettable though, but it’s likely a symptom of him not really having anything crazy going on compared to the rest of the party. Loshe is great throughout, and actually the only party member you can later ask for her opinion on various important NPCs you’ve met.

Fane is very obviously the writer’s pet, you miss out on a lot of background lore without him. Though he was written by Avellone (just without the typical angst his characters usually have), which shows.

I think Avellone also wrote Nok-Nok in Kingmaker, who was also not angsty at all.
Fane is almost necessary for a whole lot of lore. I played as him in my second playthrough, and never recruited him in the first. In terms of lore, arc, personality, and plot satisfaction, I would rank the companions in highest amount of attention given to the lowest:
1. Fane (VERY Significant to main plot, in every Act.)
2. Ifan (Significant to main plot)
3. Lohse (Like Fane, she is fun and "different" from the other companions)
4. Sebille (Her story climaxes WAY too early, otherwise she'd be higher)
5. Red Prince (He was my Origin character in my first playthrough. His plot is so aggressively tangential to everything happening in the game that it's laughable. A lot of companions have 'tacked on' stories in RPGs, which is basically the rule for a lot of Bioware companions, but in a game where several characters have plots that directly relate to the major events and characters of the game... it's really bad)
6. Beast (In the reverse of Sebille, his story isn't covered that much until near the end of the game. His plot does get good, but it's only near the end.)

GM, I'd advise swapping Beast for Fane before fighting Alexander. Unless you're fine waiting a long time for real payoff on Beast's story. Fane is relevant in every Act.

How is Ifan relevant to the main plot? I mean don't spoil it for GM but if you can explain this in 2-3 sentences and put it under "spoiler" brackets I would be glad. Cause god knows for me he felt like the most irrelevant person in the entire game.

MAJOR MAJOR DOS2 Spoilers.
Admittedly, I haven't finished by playthrough with Ifan. He's a Lone Wolf with a past with both Lucian and Alexander, and was part of the first Deathfog Conspiracy on the elves, albeit unwittingly. I haven't taken Ifan to Lucian yet, so I don't know if there's a unique reaction, but having Alexander as his foil in the first and third Acts is nice. In the second Act, you have him in the Underground and with the Lone Wolves. If I had to break it down, each companion has a specific way they tie to the main story, but some are more prominent then others.
1. Fane: Tied to the Eternals plot, Divines plot, Voidwoken and Sworn Plot, and is tied to the Endgame plot and its final boss.
2. Ifan: Tied to the Divine Order plot, Lone Wolves plot, Alexander plot, and the Lucian plot.
3. Lohse: Tied to the Demons plot and Malady.
4. Sebille: Tied to the Lone Wolves plot, the Elven People plot, and the Shadow Prince plot (which is sort of its own thing? Shadow Prince is only relevant to Sebille and Red Prince, not the whole story).
5. Red Prince: Tied to the Dragons plot and the Shadow Prince plot. The Dragon plot has fuck all to do with the rest of the game. The Shadow Prince plot is only also relevant to Sebille.
6. Beast: Tied to the Dwarves plot and the Second Deathfog Conspiracy.

Overall, I would say the order of relevance to the main plot is: Fane, Ifan, Sebille, Beast, Lohse, Red Prince.
Given the role of Braccus Rex is Act 1 and the endgame, it would have been nice to have Tarquin as a Companion/Origin. Sometimes it seems like he was supposed to be one?
Edit: Non-spoiler summary: Fane and Ifan are like the Morrigan and Alistair of DOS2 in terms of plot relevance.
Another peculiar aspect of Divinity OS2 is that the main story, or its focus, can change depending on your party composition or choice of Origin. When I did my first playthrough without Fane,
lots of the Eternals storyline came as a legitimate surprise
so that part of the game was more like a twist rather than its focus. My party was concerned with the plight of their respective peoples/races
and completely unaware that the Gods were not, in fact, Gods
, while in my second playthrough, a Fane Origin
the nature of the Divines are on full display, and the focus is on what the main antagonists are
so the playthrough's companion/origin story was more like a backstory to the main plot. If that makes sense.
Posted By: Gray Ghost Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 16/08/22 05:56 AM
Originally Posted by Wormerine
[quote=GM4Him]I must say, this lack of ability to attack through dialogue does feel off to me, too. I can't decide if it's my expectation (years of RPGs restricting player choice mostly to pre-written conversation trees) or if it is something in Larian design that is off. Afterall, if I remember correctly Fallout1&2 has for the most part worked similarly - a lot of paths were behind mechanical interactions rather then layed out conversation options. There is something about D:OS2 and BG3 where I feel like I am breaking a quest when I do this stuff - it feels to me like I forfit game content, rather then make a choice.

When you say mechanical interaction, do you mean basically 'fiddling around with stuff in the game world?' Because I think that is exactly why I bounced off of D:OS2 the way I did, so quickly. I just felt this constant, nagging low level anxiety that I was always missing something, that I wasn't interacting with things right, that if I messed around the wrong way, or didn't mess around enough, I would miss things and lock myself out of stuff, and I just could not handle that for more than a couple hours of gameplay. I just always felt lost and unsure what to do next, because it felt as though I couldn't fully predict the consequences of anything. THAT'S the feeling I've been failing to articulate all these years! Thank you!

BG3 doesn't eliicit as much of that, but it's still kind of there.
Posted By: Saito Hikari Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 16/08/22 08:48 AM
The thing about Ifan is that I feel like he was originally intended to be the canonical main character. He doesn't seem to really have an involved personal main quest like many of the other characters do, but that's because he has links to the main antagonists (meaning merely progressing through the game's critical path -IS- his personal arc), while everyone else save for Fane are mainly linked to side plots/antagonists instead. You can see this with how he's generally presented front and center in promotional material for the game too, even though he's canonically an archer.

Fane was a Kickstarter companion created by a guest writer, and from the community's point of view, he has a strong claim for canonical main character position since he basically represents the entire background plot of the game.
Posted By: GM4Him Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 16/08/22 10:20 AM
Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
The thing about Ifan is that I feel like he was originally intended to be the canonical main character. He doesn't seem to really have an involved personal main quest like many of the other characters do, but that's because he has links to the main antagonists (meaning merely progressing through the game's critical path -IS- his personal arc), while everyone else save for Fane are mainly linked to side plots/antagonists instead. You can see this with how he's generally presented front and center in promotional material for the game too, even though he's canonically an archer.

Fane was a Kickstarter companion created by a guest writer, and from the community's point of view, he has a strong claim for canonical main character position since he basically represents the entire background plot of the game.

I've been getting the same vibe so far, that Ifan is maybe the true MC
Posted By: Zerubbabel Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 17/08/22 03:43 AM
Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
Fane was a Kickstarter companion created by a guest writer, and from the community's point of view, he has a strong claim for canonical main character position since he basically represents the entire background plot of the game.
And I would like Larian to once again hire this freelance writer. Fane was great.
Posted By: Zerubbabel Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 17/08/22 04:26 AM
Originally Posted by GM4Him
Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
The thing about Ifan is that I feel like he was originally intended to be the canonical main character. He doesn't seem to really have an involved personal main quest like many of the other characters do, but that's because he has links to the main antagonists (meaning merely progressing through the game's critical path -IS- his personal arc), while everyone else save for Fane are mainly linked to side plots/antagonists instead. You can see this with how he's generally presented front and center in promotional material for the game too, even though he's canonically an archer.

Fane was a Kickstarter companion created by a guest writer, and from the community's point of view, he has a strong claim for canonical main character position since he basically represents the entire background plot of the game.

I've been getting the same vibe so far, that Ifan is maybe the true MC
Tbh, we need to keep in mind that the game was DESIGNED with the Origin System in mind, with it probably being used as a base assumption for most playthroughs. I think Ifan is the male MC Origin, Sebille is the female MC Origin (except for one small problem late), Fane is an MC Origin because of other reasons, and the other three are Origins with their own unique takes on the world and its lore, but not necessarily bound to the main plot.
Posted By: Alix Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 17/08/22 05:55 AM
I played D:OS2 about 10 Times, with all characteres as leader. D:OS2 is the best RPG I play.

My wish would be to play some of the old Ultima games (Ultima5, 6,7) with the D:OS2 engine.
Or just the old Divinities again with the D:OS2 engine.
Posted By: GM4Him Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 18/08/22 03:48 PM
Finally got the boat to take me away. So, I think I finished Act 1?

Before leaving Act 1, I decided to offload a lot of inventory. Why? I continued to find SO much more useless junk on the ship. I was sick of it. So I got rid of a good portion of it. It took me a long time. SO much item management.

And then, after all was said and done, I saw that my hotbars were all jacked up. All the time I spent organizing them was thrown out the window after managing my items and selling them and getting new skills from vendors. Sigh. It's a mess.

And BG3 is doing the same thing. I can't stress this enough. PLEASE fix this, Larian. PLEASE do not do this for BG3. Make item management and hotbar slots more intelligent and less a pain in the royal butt to manage! SO much unfun time spent messing with it. Drives me freaking nuts.

That said, to avoid just bringing up all the bad stuff, I will say that I'm only mentioning the things that I don't like about the game. Overall, it's been a pretty good game. I wouldn't say that it's hooked me, like BG3 has, but it's good.
Posted By: Saito Hikari Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 19/08/22 05:35 AM
Originally Posted by Zerubbabel
And I would like Larian to once again hire this freelance writer. Fane was great.
Trying to sound as neutral as possible, the writer was Chris Avellone, who is pretty much a celebrity writer in cRPG circles due to his involvement in many of the classic RPGs such as Planescape Torment and the Fallout series. At the moment, he's involved in a sexual harassment scandal with an ex-girlfriend, and the fallout from that appears to have made him quietly blacklisted from any further cRPG projects. Though I haven't heard of anything happening in regards to this recently, after that counter-suit that was filed. Maybe their lawyers told them both to shut up and settle this privately.

Anyway, point being, hiring him back likely isn't an option for now. Not exactly because of the scandal itself, but Larian probably doesn't want any attention from Youtube influencers with nothing better to do arguing that Larian is taking anyone's side in it.
Posted By: Zerubbabel Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 19/08/22 07:25 PM
Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
Originally Posted by Zerubbabel
And I would like Larian to once again hire this freelance writer. Fane was great.
Trying to sound as neutral as possible, the writer was Chris Avellone, who is pretty much a celebrity writer in cRPG circles due to his involvement in many of the classic RPGs such as Planescape Torment and the Fallout series. At the moment, he's involved in a sexual harassment scandal with an ex-girlfriend, and the fallout from that appears to have made him quietly blacklisted from any further cRPG projects. Though I haven't heard of anything happening in regards to this recently, after that counter-suit that was filed. Maybe their lawyers told them both to shut up and settle this privately.

Anyway, point being, hiring him back likely isn't an option for now. Not exactly because of the scandal itself, but Larian probably doesn't want any attention from Youtube influencers with nothing better to do arguing that Larian is taking anyone's side in it.
Big oof
Posted By: RagnarokCzD Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 19/08/22 07:59 PM
Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
Though I haven't heard of anything happening in regards to this recently, after that counter-suit that was filed.
I thought he was cleaned ... at least on Bloodlines 2 discord someone said it, i believe. O_o
Since he (and all his work) was terminated there aswell.
Posted By: Wormerine Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 19/08/22 10:42 PM
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
Though I haven't heard of anything happening in regards to this recently, after that counter-suit that was filed.
I thought he was cleaned ...
That's what I heard as well, but couldn't find anything concrete.
Posted By: RagnarokCzD Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 20/08/22 08:01 AM
Me neither, i just find pined post on his twitter talking about whole situation, explaining it was all one huge scam against him. :-/
So rumors are all i have ...

Quite sad tho, that damage was allready done anyway ... that man lost lots of job opourtunities bcs of the scandal, no matter how it ended. :-/
This kind of things make me very sad panda. frown
Posted By: Wormerine Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 20/08/22 02:01 PM
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Quite sad tho, that damage was allready done anyway ... that man lost lots of job opourtunities bcs of the scandal, no matter how it ended. :-/
This kind of things make me very sad panda. frown
Of course, one would hope that some due process was/is given, and companies didn't make their decisions lightly.
Posted By: RagnarokCzD Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 20/08/22 02:43 PM
One would ... but its a naive hope. :-/
Posted By: Tuco Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 20/08/22 06:31 PM
Originally Posted by Wormerine
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
Though I haven't heard of anything happening in regards to this recently, after that counter-suit that was filed.
I thought he was cleaned ...
That's what I heard as well, but couldn't find anything concrete.
It's not exactly a topic I'm particularly willing to dive into, but since I happened to cross and read some stuff about this despise my general disinterest (it was object of an animated discussion in at least a couple of places I followed) I know few details.
First thing first, let's clarify the premise: Avellone was never strictly accused to being guilty of any explicit criminal act. He's not an alleged rapist (that we know of).
Only of being an alcoholic (probably true) and a sleazy flirtatious slimeball around a certain amount of girls (not particularly hard to believe, either, but once again not a criminal offense if certain lines aren't crossed).
Also allegedly a shitty (ex) boyfriend toward a friend of the original accuser.

And to be cleat rather than "cleaned" of the accuses (which is not for twitter to decide or refuse, anyway), let's just say that the whole narrative of him being a predator of young naive girls was put at least a bit into question when some friend of her posted some messages where the gist of it was more or less "I think he's at least interested and I'm trying to bang him pretty hardcore". All this, in all fairness, is antecedent to the time Avellone settled for few months as boyfriend of the other girl, an asian woman known as "Jackie".

Oh, and in a separate circumstance he apparently sent some crass "sexting"/explicit flirting to another woman while drunk. The woman who "denounced" this turned out to be an active amateur porn actress (that made even few videos with James Deen) at the time of these events.
This doesn't give Avellone a free pass to be slimy, for the record, but maybe can give some context of how he may have thought it was a good idea at the time, I guess.
Posted By: GM4Him Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 25/08/22 02:44 PM
I just played like an hour of DOS 2 this morning. Ugh. All I did was item management and mess with skills. I spoke to Malady and Sir Squirrel and the merchant on the Vengeance. That's it And now my hotbars are all screwed up again.

Sigh. I think the issue with items, weapons and equipment, for me anyway, is there is just too much complexity with all of it for my taste. I have to look at each and every piece of armor for 4 different characters and ask myself "Is this better or worse or worth it?"

In D&D/BG3, at least I can look at armor and say, "Ah. This will increase my AC by 2. Done." I don't have to look at it and say, "Okay... um... this will increase Physical Defense by roughly 15 but potentially lower my Magic Defense by 5, but it'll also give me +1 to Huntsman and 10% Fire Resistance... ah but my current armor has 15% Fire Resistance, so that's actually a decrease... and my current armor also has +1 Pyro, so that will suck to have it removed..."

For EACH and every piece of equipment. It's too much. I REALLY don't want anything like that for BG3. Simple is better. PLEASE don't start making items all convoluted. I want to be able to look at an item and say, "Yes. That's cool. Done." I don't want to have to spend an hour pouring through tons of items trying to figure out what's good and what to sell. I want to play the game, not spend an hour shopping and messing with items.

The same is true for skills. My goodness. At first, I was like, "Yes. Lots of abilities and such. More! More!" But now I'm like, "Holy crap, Batman! There's too many of them. I... I don't know what to do with them all, and my hotbar's a mess."

I don't know. I'm not enjoying this game so much. I'm hoping that now that I've sold most of my crap and such and I'm finally in the new map location, maybe it'll be fun again. Thus far, it hasn't been, to me, what everyone's pumped it up to be. My love for BG3 is the only thing carrying me onward to try to complete the game. Prior to playing BG3, I wouldn't have even gotten as far as I have, to be frankly honest. I'm sorry, Larian. I truly am, but DOS 2 so far is not my idea of a fun video game. I WANT to like it, but I don't. Frankly, BG3 is 1000 times more fun even with all the things I've said need to be fixed and suggestions to make the game more fun.

Don't get me wrong. There are elements of the game that are great, but the stuff that isn't so fun is really taking the wind out of my sails.
Posted By: Zerubbabel Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 25/08/22 03:15 PM
Originally Posted by GM4Him
I just played like an hour of DOS 2 this morning. Ugh. All I did was item management and mess with skills. I spoke to Malady and Sir Squirrel and the merchant on the Vengeance. That's it And now my hotbars are all screwed up again.

Sigh. I think the issue with items, weapons and equipment, for me anyway, is there is just too much complexity with all of it for my taste. I have to look at each and every piece of armor for 4 different characters and ask myself "Is this better or worse or worth it?"

In D&D/BG3, at least I can look at armor and say, "Ah. This will increase my AC by 2. Done." I don't have to look at it and say, "Okay... um... this will increase Physical Defense by roughly 15 but potentially lower my Magic Defense by 5, but it'll also give me +1 to Huntsman and 10% Fire Resistance... ah but my current armor has 15% Fire Resistance, so that's actually a decrease... and my current armor also has +1 Pyro, so that will suck to have it removed..."

For EACH and every piece of equipment. It's too much. I REALLY don't want anything like that for BG3. Simple is better. PLEASE don't start making items all convoluted. I want to be able to look at an item and say, "Yes. That's cool. Done." I don't want to have to spend an hour pouring through tons of items trying to figure out what's good and what to sell. I want to play the game, not spend an hour shopping and messing with items.

The same is true for skills. My goodness. At first, I was like, "Yes. Lots of abilities and such. More! More!" But now I'm like, "Holy crap, Batman! There's too many of them. I... I don't know what to do with them all, and my hotbar's a mess."

I don't know. I'm not enjoying this game so much. I'm hoping that now that I've sold most of my crap and such and I'm finally in the new map location, maybe it'll be fun again. Thus far, it hasn't been, to me, what everyone's pumped it up to be. My love for BG3 is the only thing carrying me onward to try to complete the game. Prior to playing BG3, I wouldn't have even gotten as far as I have, to be frankly honest. I'm sorry, Larian. I truly am, but DOS 2 so far is not my idea of a fun video game. I WANT to like it, but I don't. Frankly, BG3 is 1000 times more fun even with all the things I've said need to be fixed and suggestions to make the game more fun.

Don't get me wrong. There are elements of the game that are great, but the stuff that isn't so fun is really taking the wind out of my sails.
Yeah, the bonuses are a mishmash. And you only get equipment with unique abilities by Acts 3 and 4, except for the Braccus Rex Armor in Act 1 and another armor that I think was added with the relics of Rivellon. And the abilities don't stop coming, and they don't stop coming, and they don't stop coming, and they don't stop coming. But that led to a lot of different strategy combinations, which was nice. If you're not into the story by the time you finish the boss at the end of the Blackpits Cave, then it might not be for you.

Also, inventory management in DOS games is absolutely terrible and tedious and the opposite of seamless.

Edit: Seamful. It's seamful. But pronounce it like Sean is pronounced Shean so it sounds like Shameful.
Posted By: Saito Hikari Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 25/08/22 05:26 PM
It's worth mentioning that Act 2 is probably the most open act in the game, but due to the way this game's level/damage calculations work, you are sort of pigeonholed into a somewhat strict story progression path if you don't know how to majorly cheese stuff. Generally if non-bosses are 2+ levels above you, you aren't supposed to be there yet (as you will inflict less damage against higher level opponents and vice-versa, I think it was something like 15-20% damage per level difference). It might be less of an issue on easy mode though.
Posted By: Wormerine Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 25/08/22 05:31 PM
I never found weapons to be that difficulty to compare but I also didn't worry too much about min maxing. I generally just focused on pure damage, with other bonuses being an extra - unless it's Spellcaster in which case boosting stats and skill I need is a priority.

Yes, hotbar was a goddam mess, and that's why I was so worried that Larian will leave it in its original form in BG3. It was already a massive pain in the butt in D:OS2. The "good news" is that you are near the point where skill gain will stop - there will be still some to acquire early into chapter 2 but after that the progression will throttle to a near stop.

i generally found couple skill combos that I can loop and that pretty much will be enough for the entire game as armor system erases most differences between enemies.

It also took BG3 for me to power through D:OS2 but on my initial play through I managed to go a bit further then you did.
Posted By: GM4Him Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 22/09/22 05:22 AM
Ok. I've picked up DOS2 again. Maybe just needed a break. Been playing Reapers Coast. Back to enjoying it again. Still WAY too many items, but I guess if I was on Classic difficulty, I might not be feeling that way. Sounds like more than one person was saying that on harder difficulty, you absolutely need every item you can get. I must say, I'm sorta wishing I kept going on Classic.

But then, it was frustrating the crap out of me. Every fight was murdering me no matter what I did. I think I'd probably do better now that I understand the system better, but it's too late to start over now. Maybe if I feel like it someday I'll do another playthrough on Classic again. We'll see. Depends on how I like the story, characters, etc.

Anyway, the game definitely has it's strong characteristics. I do enjoy many aspects of it.
Posted By: Wormerine Re: DOS2 on sale - Steam! - 22/09/22 12:29 PM
Originally Posted by GM4Him
Ok. I've picked up DOS2 again. Maybe just needed a break. Been playing Reapers Coast.
Yay, yeah D:OS has an issue of being repetitive, so perhaps taking one chapter at a time is a better approach then binging it in one go, as I tend to do.

I feel somewhat similar about BG3. I like it more if I play it for one evening and then I let it lie for couple days or weeks until I feel like having another bite. With little narrative pull to distract me I get hyperfocused on game's systemic shortcomings, if I spent too much time with it.
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