Before I said my final verdict about the game I waited to come out the whole game, and played through the whole story. But after this, I can say B.G.3 is an utmost disappointment which is absolutely unworthy to it's predecesors!
And before I start to say why, I forwardly say, I absolutely don't care about the "overhyped" fanboys and fangirls soo deep opininons which is in the "doesn't matter what’s in it, just call it B.G. and that's good/awsome" level, because that type of opinions doesn't change the facts!
Which facts is:
Let's start with the E.A. and the final game differences:
In the E.A. (and in Act 1) some interesting and new solution (speak to the dead and animals) which worked and good in the there, but somehow Larian forgot to keep that inovations level in the late game! In E.A./Act 1 nearly after every battle or every new place have at least one dead who can gave you important or at least interesting information, form Act 2 it's soo seldom (used after every battle and in every new places) and so useless, that's become a real supprise when you get at least a little information. The very same to the speak to the animals!
In E.A./Act 1 most of the NPCs really looks like to reacting and remembering to the player's party and actions, but form the start of Act 2 many NPC looks like have some kind of split consciousness or schizophrenia because many of their actions and reactions doesn't reflect at all to the Act 1 events and players choises in Act one! For example some of the Tieflings in the Last Light Inn is even Acting like it's the first time to see the player and only in the 2nd 3rd conversation reacting as "Oh that's you are... (from Act1)"! Which is a sloppy and lazy programing!
So technically the E.A. was just a great "peasant blinding" to cover the whole games deficiencies!
BTW because already mentioned the Tieflings from Act 1: So the Tieflings who can't handle the mere Goblins and whining in the whole Act 1 about that:"We are not fighters, and we can't survive in the road!" Somehow magicly become soo brave that they run headtowardly to the deep in the Shadowcursed lands insted simply bypass the whole area! (in one of the loading screen have a great wiev about how big is the shadow cursed area and how far far far far.... hugh clear places aroud it) Did any other noticed this hugh logical gap in the events?! Which is a sloppy and lazy story writing!
The next really big logical black hole in the story is the whole Act 2 events. Ketheric Thorm turn to Shar because his daughter is died and in the same time he become Myrkul's chosen....?! Which is the next episode of the logical mind f@*., Why? because if anybody tought that Shar is a kind and happy to sharing godess that person is utmostly wrong or simply stupid as hell! Not a chance that "Oh I kindly give the shadowcurse to you, and let you to use it for Myrkul's sake and the rise of Myrkul's power"! From Shar and about her behaviors I highly recommend (especially to the Larian „story writers”) to read "Paul S. Kemp The Twillight War" novel series!
The next step is the story's main plot which is the Dead Three make a high risk (and at the best) minimal reward gambit to create a "new god" to raise their own power about only one(!) city! (doesn't matter how many time in the game mentioned "It's a danger to the whole Swordcoast" bacause if they sucsseded in their original plan they get rule over only B.G.! Conversation with Gortash) And the top of that, that 3 Gods(!) do that for the manipulation of a simple illithid elder brain....?! Again what is this sh*t, if an elderbrain have influence over the faerunian gods (which isn't not in a million years) that mean the illithids Grad Design is already happend and the whole story is pointless!
Again even Faerun's evil gods doesn't that stupid to raise a power which don't raise their own domains=> Even in the Second Sundering, AO doesn't cleared the rule that "the gods power and influence is equal to their mortal followers number and faith"!
Again I highly recommend to read the Ciencin, Denning and Lowder's "The Avatar" Novel Series especially the last book of the series: „Troy Denning Crucible: The Trial of Cyric the Mad”
The next unbelievable mind f@*. is the whole Raphael character, who is Mephistopheles Archdevil's Cambion son. So (from the story) the Crown of Karsus is just sitting in Mephistopheleses vitrin and after that it's stolen and Raphale wanted and plotting to use to overthrow every Archdevils in Baator, that time dear old daddy Mephistopheles is just sitting in his butt and maybe playing chess or poker with his favourite Erinyes concubine and do absolutely nothing about the case....?! Not a chance ever! Again any other noticed this tremendous logical black hole in the story? Again I highly recommend about Mephistopheles behaviours, and how he didn't interest and didn’t interfere about his offsprings doing to read "Paul S. Kemp The Twillight War" novel series!
In this part of the "story", from Baator has another agent (Mizora) in the scene, and she doesn't want or even try to use the whole situation for her own Archdevil's benefits...?! Not in a million years! Again soo sloppy and lazy story writing! Again educational about the Archdevils and Baator’s other devils and halfdevils acting and their behaviours, highly recommend to read the "The Sundering" novel series especially the 3rd book "The Adversary"!
Not to mention Sarevok and Viconia reappearing in the story! In Quality(!) RPG games where the players different choices make different endings to the certain characters (in this case Viconia and Sarevok) the good or simply toughtful story writes doesn't force a continuation over the players previous choices! But for this type of story writeing need at least a little talent, which is in here looks like have a hugh lack...! BTW my Sarevok in Throne of Bhaal had converted to Chaotic Good and went to Kara-Tur where never returned and my Viconia converted to Neutral Good and because was the lover of the M.C. died in the epilogue, Thank you so much! The others have other endings? No Problem at all, nobody force them to choose the same fate for their companions as I did, but for the continuation writers MUST NEED TO RESPECT BOTH VERSION! Which is clearly not happend in here! Sloppy untoughtful and lazy story writing again! Unworthy to any previous Baldur's Gate game!
Now let’s see the game other aspects:
Starting with the character creation and inside the „High-Elf” bulls#.! The great writer Ed Greenwood created his fantasy world the Forgotten Realms and made the first publish in 1987 where was many Elf Subraces among them the most common is the Moon Elves and Sun Elves. And somehow that was good for the last more than 35 years, but came the E5 with full of it's supidity and somehow the Moon Elves and Sun Elves suddenly and magically transform to High Elves and lose all their previous unique traits and appearance traits?! What is this mind f@#. again, just because some marketing idiot become a hughe Skyrim fan and to make the "cool factor" (multimedia developer so I know how it works) higher need to shamelessly copy everything? And I don't give a damn about that's what it is in the E5! What is wrong or incorrect even in the guide book can be correctify in the games! BTW, the word High-Elf is a collective noun for every Seldarine elven race (among them the Wood Elves and The Seldarine Drows as well)! Again educationally how deeply different the Elf subraces highly recommend to read "Elaine Cunningham Evermeet: The Island of Elves"!
The next thing is the Drows which is not a standalone race but a subrace of the elves! And that media parade what Larian done about the reason: why need to make the drows as a separate race, is the biggest "hogwash" which I ever heard since the Blizzard tried to prove that (in a 12-15 minutes video) the Diablo 3 Crusader isn't the same as the Diablo 2 Paladin! (yes only graphicaly was really different) The reason was they said is: (crudely) "because they want to give more, and more significant dialogue options to the drows..." What a joke, the directly Seldarine Drow dialogue options is so seldom (3-4 and most of that that is only in the Act 1) and soo insignificant in the whole game that doesn't matter at all! And the direct drow dialogue option is just that frequent as any others and don't give any real differences than the others!
So the whole reasoning was just a big old "peasant blinding" to cover their sloppy and lazy programing about they don't put 2 conditions into the programing instead of just 1! Newsflash in Neverwinter Nights 2 somehow worked the drow dialogue options perfectly, even when they was correctly appeared as subrace of the elves!
And what is this ABSOLUTE LIE about the Lolth-Sworn Drows red eyes?! If ever was a Drows how wasn't Lolth-Sworn besides Drizzt is Jarlaxle and Zaknafein! Newsflash BOTH HAVE RED EYES because the drows red eyes is just a racial trait which is btw common trait among all Underdark races and don't have any connection to their religion! Again newsflash have many red eye drows among the seldarine belivers! So dear Larian writers, educationally please read any R.A. Salvatore Drizzt novel, or the "War of The Spider Queen" novel series which have show many Lolth-Sworn drows who hasn't got red eyes BTW!
And what is this Aylin is an aasimar?! Quote from the E5 PHB if they so like that: "Whether descended from a celestial being or infused with heavenly power, aasimar are mortals who carry a spark of the upper planes in their souls"
Which means the aasimars is a descendent of a celestial gods servant (angelic being) of the Upper planes (just as the tieflings is a descendant of a Lower plane creature) usually a Deva, a Solar or a Planetar! So if this Aylin is the direct daughter of Selune that mean she is a Half-God (or in other terms God Spawn (like the Bhaal spawn), God Child, or a Demigod) but definitely not an aasimar. Or if she is an aasimar, that mean she isn't the direct daugther of Selune! So again a sloppy and lazy writing!
The possible companions number is pitiful, and the so called Hirelings is more pitiful! For example there isn't any other thief among the detailed companions just Astarion! In the quality RPG games have at least two different companion in the same class if the player don't like for some reason to one or the other they can chose!
Can continue with Minsc and the lack of his berserker ability, and can continue the game's wrong, incorrect, illogical and even lie point's listing to the next week.... and even that's just become the tip of the iceberg!
So for educational, dear Larian Studios take an example about Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous (or at least the original Baldur's Gate series)! In every topic, story writing, characters deepnes or diversity, rules implemetations, game technics, correctnes to the fantasy world's lore... etc. that game and their developer team is more worthy to the name "Baldur's Gate" than you or your game ever can be!
Since Neverwinter Nights 1 I never saw any Faerun incorrect game as this is! So thanks Larian to tarnished the Baldur's Gate name with your incorrect so called "knowledge" and some point even lies! I just hope if a developer team (and heartfully hope you r team don't tarnishing further again) again touch the title Baldur's Gate they will be have more respect to the world Faerun and more detailed in the world's knowledge than you, and they create a game which is really worthy to the title Baldur’s Gate from every viewpoint!
Please folks, remember your spoiler tags.
And while I’m here: it’s perfectly possible to express your own criticisms of the game without taking digs at people who have different preferences and opinions. I’d ask that we do that.
Dear "The Red Queen" If I writed what I wish to said too harshly, for that I apologize! But what I wrote is sadly a real and growing behaviour! Even with this I personally respect that other's can have other and different oppinion! The reason why I writed that part is just to clarify: to make forwardly to that dear players from that point "We agree to disagree!" (again if I choosed wrong or too harsh words I appologize for that! but only for that!)
Dear "Alibied" The truth is usually annoying especially these days!
This made me snort out loud.
Okay, no offense, but you have some strange priorities. Why start with speak with dead and animals, features that cost you nothing. There's too many potions and the spell is a freebie.
Then, you seem to have missed some very important lore.
For example, the dead three want to kill all the citizens of Bg. They don't care about the elder brain. In fact, a certain undead mocks them because mindflayers lose their souls, therefore making the plan shit. (It's also a netherbrain, was it? Not a mere illithid random brain. That's seemingly much more powerful)
Sarevok and Viconia actually have a canon ending. Therefore your choices in the last games mean nothing. Larian softened just how bad canon turned out for them.
There's many things wrong with the game, but these points? A discredit to your argument. Everyone and their mom has complaints about insufficient reactivity from Act 2 on. The lack of companion content. The endings that are a throw back to mass effect 3, if not blatant trolling. None of this is controversial
If you actually read his criticisms instead of simply going straight to sarcastic remarks, he does have some good points, although OP, I think ranting a bit too much about racial changes that are very subjective.
As for your overall idea that Act 1 was extremely good, and the quality starts to drop after that, you're not alone, many people have noticed the issues.
I also agree, the elder brain suddenly saying "lul, i tricked three gods, and was in control the whole time" is ridiculous, and Ketheric going to shar, no wait Myrkul was a bit of a head scratcher. Honestly I think part of it was just to bring in Shadowheart to the main plot. She's obviously the most important origin companion, and that was clear from very early on in EA.
OP, if I might make a suggestion, maybe organizing your post into clearer sections might avoid the ranty look of the post, and more people would be willing to read it. As it is, I'm betting most will just read the title, see the huge amount of text and assume you're just ranting nonsense.
If you actually read his criticisms instead of simply going straight to sarcastic remarks, he does have some good points, although OP, I think ranting a bit too much about racial changes that are very subjective.
As for your overall idea that Act 1 was extremely good, and the quality starts to drop after that, you're not alone, many people have noticed the issues.
Act 1 was beyond excellent. I'm starting to realize that I actually hated Act 2, and I do not say that lightly. I think Act 2 makes for probably one of the worst sections of an RPG... almost everything about it was unsatisfying: the narrative, the reactivity, the exploration, the scope, the character development, the choices, the structure of activities, almost all of it.
If you actually read his criticisms instead of simply going straight to sarcastic remarks, he does have some good points, although OP, I think ranting a bit too much about racial changes that are very subjective.
As for your overall idea that Act 1 was extremely good, and the quality starts to drop after that, you're not alone, many people have noticed the issues.
I also agree, the elder brain suddenly saying "lul, i tricked three gods, and was in control the whole time" is ridiculous, and Ketheric going to shar, no wait Myrkul was a bit of a head scratcher. Honestly I think part of it was just to bring in Shadowheart to the main plot. She's obviously the most important origin companion, and that was clear from very early on in EA.
OP, if I might make a suggestion, maybe organizing your post into clearer sections might avoid the ranty look of the post, and more people would be willing to read it. As it is, I'm betting most will just read the title, see the huge amount of text and assume you're just ranting nonsense.
I did, in fact, read all of it. Thank you for once again making assumptions that are illogical. It's starting to paint a clear picture. Very helpful. Not in the way you intended, but helpful nonetheless (no, this is not sarcasm, either).
Unfortunately, the post relies strongly on assumptions which are false, while ignoring points widely accepted as fair criticism. Perhaps to make room for the controversial, this was an intentional choice. Unfortunately -- once again -- the way the points are presented, in order and accuracy, does not do it any favours.
I did, in fact, read all of it. Thank you for once again making assumptions that are illogical. It's starting to paint a clear picture. Very helpful. Not in the way you intended, but helpful nonetheless (no, this is not sarcasm, either).
Ease off the trigger Silver, your post wasn't even there when I started writing my response, I wasn't talking to you.
edit: making it NICE
If you actually read his criticisms instead of simply going straight to sarcastic remarks, he does have some good points, although OP, I think ranting a bit too much about racial changes that are very subjective.
As for your overall idea that Act 1 was extremely good, and the quality starts to drop after that, you're not alone, many people have noticed the issues.
I also agree, the elder brain suddenly saying "lul, i tricked three gods, and was in control the whole time" is ridiculous, and Ketheric going to shar, no wait Myrkul was a bit of a head scratcher. Honestly I think part of it was just to bring in Shadowheart to the main plot. She's obviously the most important origin companion, and that was clear from very early on in EA.
OP, if I might make a suggestion, maybe organizing your post into clearer sections might avoid the ranty look of the post, and more people would be willing to read it. As it is, I'm betting most will just read the title, see the huge amount of text and assume you're just ranting nonsense.
Pretty much this (the organization suggestion bit).
I just saw a giant wall of text, skimmed through it and read ridiculous ranting about Sun and Moon Elves and Drow being categorized separately and said “I’m not reading this nonsense,” and then went to see if there were want good snarky responses. Was not disappointed.
If you actually read his criticisms instead of simply going straight to sarcastic remarks, he does have some good points, although OP, I think ranting a bit too much about racial changes that are very subjective.
As for your overall idea that Act 1 was extremely good, and the quality starts to drop after that, you're not alone, many people have noticed the issues.
I also agree, the elder brain suddenly saying "lul, i tricked three gods, and was in control the whole time" is ridiculous, and Ketheric going to shar, no wait Myrkul was a bit of a head scratcher. Honestly I think part of it was just to bring in Shadowheart to the main plot. She's obviously the most important origin companion, and that was clear from very early on in EA.
OP, if I might make a suggestion, maybe organizing your post into clearer sections might avoid the ranty look of the post, and more people would be willing to read it. As it is, I'm betting most will just read the title, see the huge amount of text and assume you're just ranting nonsense.
Pretty much this (the organization suggestion bit).
I just saw a giant wall of text, skimmed through it and read ridiculous ranting about Sun and Moon Elves and Drow being categorized separately and said “I’m not reading this nonsense,” and then went to see if there were want good snarky responses. Was not disappointed.
I'd inject forum snark directly into my veins if I could.
I did, in fact, read all of it. Thank you for once again making assumptions that are illogical. It's starting to paint a clear picture. Very helpful. Not in the way you intended, but helpful nonetheless (no, this is not sarcasm, either).
Ease off the trigger Silver, your post wasn't even there when I started writing my response, I wasn't talking to you.
edit: making it NICE
Alright, I apologize.
I'd inject forum snark directly into my veins if I could.
![[Linked Image from media.tenor.com]](https://media.tenor.com/NhyaZzq0iPIAAAAM/whatever-sarcasm.gif)
I swear, we write our comments at the exact same time lol. I've been snarky to you before, so I can understand why you were quick to think I was attacking you.
I'd inject forum snark directly into my veins if I could.
I swear, we write our comments at the exact same time lol. I've been snarky to you before, so I can understand why you were quick to think I was attacking you.
Let me rephrase:
I'd inject forum snark that's not directed at me directly into my veins if I could.
I'd inject forum snark that's not directed at me directly into my veins if I could.
lol, it was understood. I usually love the snark as well.
Act 1 was beyond excellent. I'm starting to realize that I actually hated Act 2, and I do not say that lightly. I think Act 2 makes for probably one of the worst sections of an RPG... almost everything about it was unsatisfying: the narrative, the reactivity, the exploration, the scope, the character development, the choices, the structure of activities, almost all of it.
I still prefer Act 2 to Act 3 ... Act 3 is just strange and feels rushed and unfinished (haven't completed it though). Granted, Act 2 had it's problems, but they aren't as obvious as in Act 3.
I read the about 90% of the post, I just thought it was a funny thing to say given the overall tone from the op. I also agree with the sentiment that the game begins to fall off in the second and third acts. Don't worry, I'm not here to defend some of the poor writing, just to try and make a joke.
Act 1 was beyond excellent. I'm starting to realize that I actually hated Act 2, and I do not say that lightly. I think Act 2 makes for probably one of the worst sections of an RPG... almost everything about it was unsatisfying: the narrative, the reactivity, the exploration, the scope, the character development, the choices, the structure of activities, almost all of it.
I still prefer Act 2 to Act 3 ... Act 3 is just strange and feels rushed and unfinished (haven't completed it though). Granted, Act 2 had it's problems, but they aren't as obvious as in Act 3.
I am barely through Act 3. If it is worse than the Shadow-Cursed Lands, this game is going from a 9 to an 8 for me.
Every CRPG since BG2 is unworthy in comparison to BG2. That doesn't mean those games are bad.
You just have to face the facts that another game on BG2s scale will never happen, not just because developers won't make it, but Wizards of the Coast won't allow older rulesets to be used for new DnD games.
I think I realized this around 10-15 years ago when I was alos like 'Why wont anyone make another game like BG2?'.
Eventually I gave up after realizing it simply won't ever happen.
I think if they made Act 1 that good then there's a chance act 2, 3 and maybe 4 can be completed and polished in the future who knows. Larians Definitive edition
I read it all but I have to say; Insults, attacks on the devs, and personal nitpicks don't make valid points.
The problem with using attacks and vitriol is that it makes people less likely to stick to the discussion, because you've already set the tone as something hostile, OP.
Also people who want another game like BG2, could always try make it yourself.
I actually tried to learn programming using Harvard's CS50 ... I was too dumb for it.
Also people who want another game like BG2, could always try make it yourself.
I actually tried to learn programming using Harvard's CS50 ... I was too dumb for it.
I have so many bloody game ideas in my head.
But every time I try to learn Python 3 or C++, it just does not stick. x.x
OP, if I might make a suggestion, maybe organizing your post into clearer sections might avoid the ranty look of the post, and more people would be willing to read it. As it is, I'm betting most will just read the title, see the huge amount of text and assume you're just ranting nonsense.
Dear Boblawblah! I thanks for your suggestion! Though I'm not a practiced forum writer (this was only my 3-4th time), and in the matter of fact if Larian don't done this incorrection with the game what they done, I don't even think to write into the forum at all! And my purpose with the thread was simply to tell the truth about that incorrection what they done in the game! Why? It' simple because I like Faerun from the very first novel what I read in the Realms!
So I'm not read the novels because I played the game or the TTRPG, the only reason why I play the game and TTRPG because I read and like the novels. Simply I like the fantasy world Forgotten Realms as it is.
And I stand against any incorrection, mistake, and even lies what they done against Faerun. Doesn't matter how little or how insignificant that wrong in others eyes. And in this matter if I stand alone, or stand against the whole world, so be it! I don't care, because that's the right thing to do! And I'm do what it's right not what it's easy no matter how hard it is! And even if I fail, I have the satisfaction that I'm done and I fighted for what it's right. And because I said the truth already in my thread, I don't think I spend too much time in this forums in the future...
Those who have ears hear it, those who have eyes see it, and those who have heart and mind know it! Oh and those who like the Realms just as I do they already know it!
And for those who disagree have every right to do that, I'm not some missionar to try to convert them, and nobody pay me to "influence" them. I told them the truth as well, and after what they do with that knowledge isn't my consern at all. If they dissagree even after they hear that, I already writed them to "We agree to disagree!"
But even with this, I thank you again your suggestion and if I use the forum again in the future I try that!
You just have to face the facts that another game on BG2s scale will never happen
Dear DumbleDorf! As you can see I don't want "another BG2" I want a Faerun correct game, which is clearly not happened in here! And to do a Faerun correct game isn't beyond any developer teams competency, "They don't need to invent the spanish wax again", they just need to use and use it correctly(!) the already having knowledge (in this case more than 35 years of knowledge), insted of tarnishing or rewriting. Simple as it is!
Then, you seem to have missed some very important lore.
Dear Silver/! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA......please to think my laughing continue at least an hour long! Than read my answer!
Because it looks like you "missed some very important lore" which is: The Forgotten Realms as a Fantasy World an inside Faerun as a Continent have a more than 35 years old(!) history (the first novel came out in the Realms in 1987) and knowledge and lore which can BTW even you can read any time in the already suggested novels!
So what you putting in the poll as "an important lore" is one developer team's simple idea (which was only in that level what it was, I think more than 20 years of D.M. and player experience in many TTRPG among them D&D as well, I have every right to say this, but don't mind me at all) who just scratching the topic for at max. 4 years, against 35 years of facts, knowledge which is in the hundreds of novels what already published in the Realms! Little bit strange, but no problem at all!
So if you are so into about the "very important lore" let me share you some, and after that you can do with it what you want!
So Faerun common knowledge 0.1:
There was a time in Faerun which called "The Time of Troubles" (if you interested I can recite the D.R. as well) when the so called Dead Three stolen the "Tablets of Faith" from the Overgod AO to try to raise more their own powers! (addition knowledge: in that time the Tablets of Faith contained the list of Faerun Gods and their domains) BTW maybe this one was the event what inspired Larian to make this type of a story (without soo much success)... But back to the Lore!
This stealing made AO so overfurious (about how some "lowly gods" threatened the balance) that when he get back the Tablets crushed it in his hands (to show the gods that (even if they are strong artifacts) not the Tablets have the power) and verdicted from that point "Every Faerunian gods power become equal to their mortal followers numbers and that followers devotion!" BTW as punishment AO left the Dead Three to dead for the stealing after they demise!
After that AO resurrected many dead gods when he remade the Tablets of Faith in the "Second Sundering" but doesn't wiped out the verdict that the gods power depend on their mortal followers!
BTW you can read all this clearly in the already recommended novels!
So Fun Fact: If they kill every people in Baldur's Gate: (just as you suggested, and if that dialogue ever happend as you writed that just means Larian made a more sloppy and lazier and more illogical work than I writed)
For Bhaal: doesn't remain anybody to murder
For Myrkul: doesn't remain anybody to die
For Bane doesn't remain anybody to rule over tyranny
Why is that important? Just because that's their main domains in power and if you read this little paragraph carefully that means maybe you can understand as well: In that way their works against themselfs!
Not to mentioned that Baldur's Gate isn't the largest nor the strongest city in Faerun and even if they succeeded as you suggested (big surprise!) the others came to retaliate! Again Fun Fact they are evil gods but they aren't this stupid! If you wish to become more detailed in their Real(!) (not as Larian portraited them wrongly) character and their behaviours, again I highly recommend the novels!
And finally about "Viconia and Sarevok canon" it is the thing what I absolutely don't care, because I said it already: In QUALITY RPG GAMES(!) continuation (and have many in the market BTW good old and new ones as well, where) the developers respect every(!) players decision, not just the "majority" or the "canon" and don't force one or other to the players! Which mean if they do that, that only mean they don't want to make a quality RPG game simple as it is! :P
I admit that I rarely read posts which are about 40 or more words long. I might skim through the longer ones, but I don't really read them word-for-word, because I just can't wait to read more of
This made me snort out loud.
It made me think "Oh gods another American". I have no idea what a Wendy's is - if pressed I'd guess some sort of fast-food chain.
Apologies, but by the attention you paid to the details of the game, I do not trust you to provide accurate lore summaries that do not leave out important background information. Maybe you'll understand the issue with your assumptions on replay. Including that the game isn't continuously trying to show you that the dead three are idiots
If you actually read his criticisms instead of simply going straight to sarcastic remarks, he does have some good points, although OP, I think ranting a bit too much about racial changes that are very subjective.
As for your overall idea that Act 1 was extremely good, and the quality starts to drop after that, you're not alone, many people have noticed the issues.
I also agree, the elder brain suddenly saying "lul, i tricked three gods, and was in control the whole time" is ridiculous, and Ketheric going to shar, no wait Myrkul was a bit of a head scratcher. Honestly I think part of it was just to bring in Shadowheart to the main plot. She's obviously the most important origin companion, and that was clear from very early on in EA.
OP, if I might make a suggestion, maybe organizing your post into clearer sections might avoid the ranty look of the post, and more people would be willing to read it. As it is, I'm betting most will just read the title, see the huge amount of text and assume you're just ranting nonsense.
Pretty much this (the organization suggestion bit).
I just saw a giant wall of text, skimmed through it and read ridiculous ranting about Sun and Moon Elves and Drow being categorized separately and said “I’m not reading this nonsense,” and then went to see if there were want good snarky responses. Was not disappointed.
Pathetic. Gods help you if you are ever confronted with a book with no pictures in it. 'Wall of text'.
If you actually read his criticisms instead of simply going straight to sarcastic remarks, he does have some good points, although OP, I think ranting a bit too much about racial changes that are very subjective.
As for your overall idea that Act 1 was extremely good, and the quality starts to drop after that, you're not alone, many people have noticed the issues.
I also agree, the elder brain suddenly saying "lul, i tricked three gods, and was in control the whole time" is ridiculous, and Ketheric going to shar, no wait Myrkul was a bit of a head scratcher. Honestly I think part of it was just to bring in Shadowheart to the main plot. She's obviously the most important origin companion, and that was clear from very early on in EA.
OP, if I might make a suggestion, maybe organizing your post into clearer sections might avoid the ranty look of the post, and more people would be willing to read it. As it is, I'm betting most will just read the title, see the huge amount of text and assume you're just ranting nonsense.
Pretty much this (the organization suggestion bit).
I just saw a giant wall of text, skimmed through it and read ridiculous ranting about Sun and Moon Elves and Drow being categorized separately and said “I’m not reading this nonsense,” and then went to see if there were want good snarky responses. Was not disappointed.
Pathetic. Gods help you if you are ever confronted with a book with no pictures in it. 'Wall of text'.
Idk if you’ve actually read a book, friend. They’re usually divided into things called paragraphs.
My German teacher used to fail people if they did not use "proper" paragraphs. Just saying
If you actually read his criticisms instead of simply going straight to sarcastic remarks, he does have some good points, although OP, I think ranting a bit too much about racial changes that are very subjective.
As for your overall idea that Act 1 was extremely good, and the quality starts to drop after that, you're not alone, many people have noticed the issues.
I also agree, the elder brain suddenly saying "lul, i tricked three gods, and was in control the whole time" is ridiculous, and Ketheric going to shar, no wait Myrkul was a bit of a head scratcher. Honestly I think part of it was just to bring in Shadowheart to the main plot. She's obviously the most important origin companion, and that was clear from very early on in EA.
OP, if I might make a suggestion, maybe organizing your post into clearer sections might avoid the ranty look of the post, and more people would be willing to read it. As it is, I'm betting most will just read the title, see the huge amount of text and assume you're just ranting nonsense.
Pretty much this (the organization suggestion bit).
I just saw a giant wall of text, skimmed through it and read ridiculous ranting about Sun and Moon Elves and Drow being categorized separately and said “I’m not reading this nonsense,” and then went to see if there were want good snarky responses. Was not disappointed.
Pathetic. Gods help you if you are ever confronted with a book with no pictures in it. 'Wall of text'.
I have a degree in history with a minor in philosophy from a highly ranked university. I read lots of books, thanks.
Every CRPG since BG2 is unworthy in comparison to BG2. That doesn't mean those games are bad.
But there again, it does not follow from this that BG3 is good.
I've just finished the creche and the dialogue was all over the place at the end with the Lich Queen of New Orleans totally confused as to whether she was speaking to me or Lae'zel and Lae'zel bouncing between with me or again me after deciding to follow me.
The astral plane scene was largely pointless. Queenie says there's something in the artefact but something, something, we have to go the the astral plane. Guardian says Queenie will be miffed when we get back to the creche. On our return we kill two or three gith who were stood near the waypoint and we are out of there.
I choose the Grove from the waypoint options but get sent to camp where Lae'zel rages about the queen and betrayal and something, something. Then a heartbeat later she decides it is a test. Then we have a long rest without needing any supplies.
The Italian restaurant area (The Temple of Lasagne) was pointlessly large and difficult to navigate and all for a mace which isn't as good as the flail I bought from a merchant. The area seemed to be there just to name-drop Lathander. Same thing for the kobolds. "Secret passage" on a set of double-doors the size of Wales.
I have a degree in history with a minor in philosophy from a highly ranked university. I read lots of books, thanks.
I have a degree in Politics and Contemporary History but even when I was at primary school that post would not have constituted a 'wall of text'.
Idk if you’ve actually read a book, friend. They’re usually divided into things called paragraphs.
Yes, I've read lots of books but those that I have read are divided into things called chapters with some of the larger titles divided into things called volumes. The OP's post was divided into paragraphs BTW.
Okay, folks, that’s enough trash talking and critiquing of writing style. Let’s engage with the OP’s specific points if we want to, or go to another thread if we don’t.
I have a degree in history with a minor in philosophy from a highly ranked university. I read lots of books, thanks.
I have a degree in Politics and Contemporary History but even when I was at primary school that post would not have constituted a 'wall of text'.
Congratulations. You’ve convinced me you are somebody not worth talking to. Have a great life.
Every CRPG since BG2 is unworthy in comparison to BG2. That doesn't mean those games are bad.
BG 1 was better than BG 2. Arcanum, Fallout 1 and 2, PoE 1, DAO, Pathfinder Kingmaker and WORT, BG3 are all better than BG 2. People obsess about BG 2 because of nostalgia, but it was very generic. Lots of content, but the plot was bland and boring honestly. An evil megalomaniac wizard who wants to be god and solves every problem with MAGIC is just bad writing. Sarevok had finesse, he actually used brains and his Iron Crisis intrigue was quite nicely written. Irenicus just used his magical powers to do stuff. The only reason he got so far is because he had so much plot armor every faction that managed to subdue him didn't kill him, but let him live and overpower them with MAGIC later.
All the problems with deviations from the old lore, I feel BG2 wouldn't be worthy of the name by these standards. It constantly deviated and bent rules and retconned stuff from the first game and from the rule books, because like BG3, it adapts things to serve the story and be a better game, not to be a checklist for rules-lawyering
[quote=DumbleDorf]Irenicus just used his magical powers to do stuff. The only reason he got so far is because he had so much plot armor every faction that managed to subdue him didn't kill him, but let him live and overpower them with MAGIC later.
Irenicus had the best voice acting in the history of video games though. David Warner was a star talent (If you haven't watched his Hornblower episode do it, he's amazing as a villain.) He didn't need a good motive, BG2 was about how you get there not the destination, all he had to do was be menacing and seem powerful and out of reach.
BGI definitely had a certain magic to it. For example, it had a sense of exploration that was curtailed in BGII. I think BGIII did quite a lot of work to bring that aspect back into the game. (40 words)
The one voice that would be even better than David Warner, and his wonderful nasal timbre, is that of the actor who played Professor Snape. Gosh, even the way Snape pronounced the name "Mis-ter Pot-ter" was just electrifying. (40 words)
Every CRPG since BG2 is unworthy in comparison to BG2. That doesn't mean those games are bad.
BG 1 was better than BG 2. Arcanum, Fallout 1 and 2, PoE 1, DAO, Pathfinder Kingmaker and WORT, BG3 are all better than BG 2. People obsess about BG 2 because of nostalgia, but it was very generic. Lots of content, but the plot was bland and boring honestly. An evil megalomaniac wizard who wants to be god and solves every problem with MAGIC is just bad writing. Sarevok had finesse, he actually used brains and his Iron Crisis intrigue was quite nicely written. Irenicus just used his magical powers to do stuff. The only reason he got so far is because he had so much plot armor every faction that managed to subdue him didn't kill him, but let him live and overpower them with MAGIC later.
I'll say it again.
Not one CRPG on this planet lives up to BG2.
All the reasons you gave are not the valid reasons why.
1) Class / multiclass diversity.
2) Level Cap
3) Multitude of spells
4) The combat
What good is playing yet another 'visual novel' if the gameplay is lacking? People that primarily focus on the story are the reason why 99% of Western RPGs nowadays are trash, because developers don't need to bother working on the combat or anything else. If all you want from a game is a story, there are thousands of anime visual novel games you can buy on steam, or you know you could read a book.
Talking about generic, BG3 is the most generic DnD game ever to have been made, hardly any class customization, everything is dumbed down, most feats and class skills are automatically given.
OFC this makes the game a lot more popular - its easier for the masses and you dont need to sit down with spreadsheets and rules open on a second monitor to enjoy the game.
I literally dont give the slightest crap about lore or story in any video game ever. If the gameplay is garbage I wouldn't be playing it to even get though whatever lame story yet another typical RPG has with 'kill the demon, save the princess' or whatever garbage they come up with next.
I play BG2 with full custom party or custom solo and it remains the only game I have played through as many times as I have. I skip all dialogue options and don't read anything, and I'm actually currently doing that for most of the pointless lame 'waste 50 hours chatting to your companions' BS in BG3 as well. Like sheesh idgaf about Wyll's daddy issues already, just pull out your cock which he still hasn't.
Talking and story is the most boring part of every game period.
Actually I can think of a game that does live up to and match BG2 - Tales of Maj Eyal. No story all combat. Endless Dumgeon, combat combat combat. Amazing strategic turn based RPG combat.
I don't enjoy chess as well because it has any story.
Okay, folks. We can talk about this if we're going to do so in a friendly, constructive way that recognises that folk have different preferences and that's absolutely fine.
But if we're going to get het up, then it's time to agree to disagree and move on.
In case someone is actually tallying data on player responses: I purchased both BG1 and BG2 in a store way back in the before times when PC games still cam in boxes with big fat manuals and stuff. I feel BG3 is every bit a worthy sequel to those fantastic and beloved games.
I think some of the difference of opinion comes from people who didn't experience the development of DnD itself from the 2nd edition through to the 5th. One person's "dumbing down" is another person's "streamlining". I love BG1 and 2, spent days loading the box fulls of cd's onto my home computer. But I adore BG3.
I think some of the difference of opinion comes from people who didn't experience the development of DnD itself from the 2nd edition through to the 5th. One person's "dumbing down" is another person's "streamlining". I love BG1 and 2, spent days loading the box fulls of cd's onto my home computer. But I adore BG3.
I dunno. I started with AD&D 2nd Ed. and I’ll take 5E over that any day. I like BG3 a lot. It’s a very different experience from the first two, but I don’t think I would like it as much if it just felt like a continuation of the originals. All of the spiritual successors to the infinity engine games have disappointed me.
Crazy how OP can write up such a massive negative review saying it's not worthy of its name, yet BG3 is the most critically acclaimed game of the year, if not the decade lol
How delusional!
Crazy how OP can write up such a massive negative review saying it's not worthy of its name, yet BG3 is the most critically acclaimed game of the year, if not the decade lol
How delusional!
Or maybe OP has different opinions and criteria than you and me and critics? Not necessarily a delusion lol.
Or maybe OP has different opinions and criteria than you and me and critics...
Dear Zerubbabel!
Thank you! You are absolutely right, my criteria is really very different!
Most of the dear players usually forgot (or don't know at all) that The Forgotten Realms is a fantasy world what started it's "career" in the novels! (but I already mentioned this, the first novel in the Realms came out in 1987 from this world's creator Ed Greenwood)
Implementing this fantasy world as a TTRPG, what use the D&D rule sets only came many years and many novels later, and implementing as a successful CRPG game is only happened at 1998 in the 1'st Baldur's Gate game.
So to said it easy and plainly: from cronological and all other logical viewpoints the Novels is the main stream and the main source of the lore in this fantasy world (why: because the novels continuing even this days "more than 35 years of lore in the lot more than hundreds of novels already" from many talented and respected writers whos the creator of this fantasy world), not the actual edition of D&D rule set or any game, because any of that came only after.
So if any developer team want to create a game in the realms, the first thing what they must respect above all: isn't their "own game's need" nor the actual edition of a D&D rule set but that lore from the hundreds on novels! And that's not a "rule lawyering" just simply to remaining true to the original! Which is clearly doesn't happened in here!
For example: if the original author writen the certain character with a certain traits or a certain attitude and in the game that appear as an exact opposite, that's incorrect, tarnishing the basics and from that point spread lies! (doesn't matter how insignificant is that in the eyes of others)
If the game is correct at least to that basic lore of the world, from that point in my eyes the game is good because the basics are good, if the game doesn't correct to that basics the game isn't good at all because "if the base is wrong the structure become also wrong"! (thousands years old and always true wisdom)
Badur's Gate 1-2, Icewind Dale 1-2, Demon Stone, Sword Coast Legends, Neverwinter Nights 2 was all correct to that basics, never tarnished even the slightest little detail. So they are good and worthy games! And after that the actual game is how detailed, how correctly follow the used D&D edition's rule... etc. etc. etc. is all just secondary consideration.
Neverwinter Nights 1, and Baldur's Gate 3 doesn't correct to that fundamental basics, and what a surprise they are full off incorrection mistakes and even lies, which tarnishing and wrongly influence the other element of the game as well, so they aren't good or worthy games! Simple as it is!
So I'm not against the players whose like the game just because they don't know this, I'm against the developers whose don't keep and respect even the basics, tarnishing the most elemental basics and spread incorrections and lies! And they do this just because "most of the players is in ignorance" or simply don't care about at all.
That's and that attitude is wrong, and ignorance is sooner or later but always backfire to the "ignoring" peoples!
Crazy how OP can write up such a massive negative review saying it's not worthy of its name, yet BG3 is the most critically acclaimed game of the year, if not the decade lol
How delusional!
Critically acclaimed by critics who have a vested interest in being positive about the game. Given that the decade has seven more years to run any claims for a 'game of the decade' are ridiculous and says more about the people who write such nonsense and the people who believe it than it does about BG3.
BGI definitely had a certain magic to it. For example, it had a sense of exploration that was curtailed in BGII. I think BGIII did quite a lot of work to bring that aspect back into the game. (40 words)
The one voice that would be even better than David Warner, and his wonderful nasal timbre, is that of the actor who played Professor Snape. Gosh, even the way Snape pronounced the name "Mis-ter Pot-ter" was just electrifying. (40 words)
The actor in question was Alan Rickman. He died in 2016.
So if any developer team want to create a game in the realms, the first thing what they must respect above all: isn't their "own game's need" nor the actual edition of a D&D rule set but that lore from the hundreds on novels! And that's not a "rule lawyering" just simply to remaining true to the original! Which is clearly doesn't happened in here!
For example: if the original author writen the certain character with a certain traits or a certain attitude and in the game that appear as an exact opposite, that's incorrect, tarnishing the basics and from that point spread lies! (doesn't matter how insignificant is that in the eyes of others)
If the game is correct at least to that basic lore of the world, from that point in my eyes the game is good because the basics are good, if the game doesn't correct to that basics the game isn't good at all because "if the base is wrong the structure become also wrong"! (thousands years old and always true wisdom)
Badur's Gate 1-2, Icewind Dale 1-2, Demon Stone, Sword Coast Legends, Neverwinter Nights 2 was all correct to that basics, never tarnished even the slightest little detail. So they are good and worthy games! And after that the actual game is how detailed, how correctly follow the used D&D edition's rule... etc. etc. etc. is all just secondary consideration.
Neverwinter Nights 1, and Baldur's Gate 3 doesn't correct to that fundamental basics, and what a surprise they are full off incorrection mistakes and even lies, which tarnishing and wrongly influence the other element of the game as well, so they aren't good or worthy games! Simple as it is!
So I'm not against the players whose like the game just because they don't know this, I'm against the developers whose don't keep and respect even the basics, tarnishing the most elemental basics and spread incorrections and lies! And they do this just because "most of the players is in ignorance" or simply don't care about at all.
That's and that attitude is wrong, and ignorance is sooner or later but always backfire to the "ignoring" peoples!
It's amazing how you continue to say Baldur's Gate 3 isn't worthy of its name and doesn't do anything correctly, despite Wizards of the Coast being the ones who approached Larian to create it, while also having huge impact on its development process, lore, and overall story arc.
So therefor you're saying that WotC isn't worthy of D&D, and doesn't understand it's own lore and world.
Seems reasonable.
.... despite Wizards of the Coast being the ones who approached Larian to create it, while also having huge impact on its development process, lore, and overall story arc.
Dear Noraver!
Wizards of the Coast (WotC) is a publisher company who specialized in fantasy and sci-fi, which is for now a subsidiary of Hasbro! (and I have no doubt they have a great lore about marketing)
The world's The Forgotten Realms's (and it's lore's) authors is the novel writers from the very start!
I find the game more than worth of an 8/10, so a lot of the criticisms here are either purely subjective or feel like nitpicks to me. Still, there are certainly parts of the game which could have been better implemented, such as Act 3 and the endings, but I have largely enjoyed my time with the game.
.... despite Wizards of the Coast being the ones who approached Larian to create it, while also having huge impact on its development process, lore, and overall story arc.
Dear Noraver!
Wizards of the Coast (WotC) is a publisher company who specialized in fantasy and sci-fi, which is for now a subsidiary of Hasbro! (and I have no doubt they have a great lore about marketing)
The world's The Forgotten Realms's (and it's lore's) authors is the novel writers from the very start!
Congratulations on understanding how businesses work. That doesn't change anything about my comment.
It's a fact that Wizards of the Coast has the final say over everything within the franchises they own and/or manage. This includes both novels and games within the Forgotten Realms setting.
Wizards approached Larian.
Wizards was involved in the process of the storyline.
Wizards approved of the final product.
By your logic, Wizards isn't worthy of its own creation.
You're either a very poor troll, or someone so very disgruntled about nothing but a title, and stuck in the past. Perhaps you should stick to just playing Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 for the rest of your days.
I have much respect for the OP’s knowledge of Forgotten Realms lore. That said, for me, the more glaring reason (among many others, frankly) this game is not the proper BG sequel many of us long time, older gamers hoped for is overall design—we were hoping for heroic adventure, player freedom, an expansive and diverse number of potential companions in order to help tell the story in a way of the player’s choosing, etc., etc., etc. Rather, IMHO, this is a just another DOS game with a thin D&D/BG/Forgotten Realms wrapper. BG3 appears to potentially be an average to reasonably good DOS game (once Larian fixes most of the bugs), but it seems clear at this juncture that BG3 is a Baldur’s Gate title in name only.
Regards,
Hem
P.S. Gary Gygax has to be rolling over in his grave, and I doubt Ed Greenwood is pleased—even if he won’t say so.
Good game =/= good sequel. BG 3 can be a phenomenal game in its own right and a poor followup to its predecessors. IMHO the way the legacy of the Bhaalspawn is treated in 5e and in BG 3....and the way certain returning characters are treated, not to mention the extremely loose way Larian plays with the lore of the setting (whether you are talking about 2e or 5e, there are definately numerous liberties taken here) is pretty good grounds to demonstrate the validity of that position.
Dear Hemingwey!
You are absolutely true! Besides what you writed, is (just) the basics of every really good RPG game, tabletop or computer as well!
BTW Happily see that I'm not the only older gamer here! It's soo refreshing to speak to someone who remember the "Golden Age" of the game development, and know the real Realms.
Thanks for your kind words! But all of the knowledge (not mine, that's the knowledge of the creators) what I reciting about the Realms is absolutely available to anybody, if they read the novels they can become just as detailed as I'am or even more (which would be an even better outcome )!
That's why always recommend it!
Besides, because among the novels have really fantastic writings, some of it is a pure masterpiece, those who try it the only thing what they can lose is his/her "soo rainbow colored among the clouds" oppinion about BG3, but nothing more!
P.S. Gary Gygax has to be rolling over in his grave, and I doubt Ed Greenwood is pleased—even if he won’t say so.
Your P.S. is just perfect! I rise my hat!
Best Regards!
Z
If you actually read his criticisms instead of simply going straight to sarcastic remarks, he does have some good points, although OP, I think ranting a bit too much about racial changes that are very subjective.
As for your overall idea that Act 1 was extremely good, and the quality starts to drop after that, you're not alone, many people have noticed the issues.
Act 1 was beyond excellent. I'm starting to realize that I actually hated Act 2, and I do not say that lightly. I think Act 2 makes for probably one of the worst sections of an RPG... almost everything about it was unsatisfying: the narrative, the reactivity, the exploration, the scope, the character development, the choices, the structure of activities, almost all of it.
I agree with you, I really dislike Act 2 which isn't how I thought things were going to go after being told it was the meat of the game and at least 50 hours long, I feel some cut content played a role in this though, I believe Avernus was supposed to be visitable during Act 2 when you met with Raphael and Karlach was supposed to have more content during Act 2 as well. I believe there was also some stuff related to the creche and Orin as well that was cut.
I can only hope they address this in the future, Act 1 is really enoyable I hope they can uplift the other acts to it's quality.
Not to mention Sarevok and Viconia reappearing in the story! In Quality(!) RPG games where the players different choices make different endings to the certain characters (in this case Viconia and Sarevok) the good or simply toughtful story writes doesn't force a continuation over the players previous choices! But for this type of story writeing need at least a little talent, which is in here looks like have a hugh lack...! BTW my Sarevok in Throne of Bhaal had converted to Chaotic Good and went to Kara-Tur where never returned and my Viconia converted to Neutral Good and because was the lover of the M.C. died in the epilogue,
Regarding these two I am aware that in the 20 or so years that WoTC has been bastardizing the Canon of BG1 and 2 and picking and chosing what they want to be "canon" via their Minsc Adventure series. It would really have been nice to have a Witcher 3 style moment where we get to fill out some questions about what we as players did in BG1/2 or at least ToB or maybe just say what our CHARNAME was in those games.
I hate how there is just this supposed Canon story for BG1 and 2 and the 90 or so years in between the game never tells us about.
Just as you said, it would be great, and usually in quality RPG games that's the situation and the players have the chance to do that.
Nowadays sadly all can hear nearly everywhere is "canon this, canon that...." but the truth is canon is just a choise what most (but not all!) player choosed.
In manyTelltale games (for example: The Walking Dead) after the actual act the game show how many player choosed this or that rout. But beyond that the players X% choosed this rout any only Y% choosed that rout mean what? Means nothing because that's the basics of all RPG to let the player to choose the way what he/she prefer.
Simply said the player's choises form the game and the game’s ending, and especially if the game (doesn't matter to computer or tabletop) had continuation the good and toughtful D.M. respect the players choises above all, because the RPG is the players’s and the D.M.’s "joint" game. And those who can’t respect even this very simple RPG fundamentals would be better to don’t make RPG games.
But again sadly nowadays many developers forgot or (in more bad case) don't care at all about this, and use the canon as a billy club or just simply hide behind the canon to force their own ideas. And why they do that: usually simply just for marketing.
Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volley’d and thunder’d;
Storm’d at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of Hell
Rode the six hundred.
Alfred, Lord Tennyson
https://poets.org/poem/charge-light-brigade
I raise my hat again!
A clever (in many ways) and fitting well quote from a well read (according to your current and previous comments) player!
Thank you!
"...
Tonight we ride straight into the fire
Are you ready to go go go
We'll make our stand
Don't give a damn
This is our time to go from zero to hero
..."
Zero to Hero - Star-Lord
(written and performed by Steve Szczepkowski and Yohann Boudreault)
https://marvels-guardians-of-the-galaxy.fandom.com/wiki/Zero_to_Hero
OP I disagree because all of this is just subjective ranting.
You're not wrong. You're just fail to understand that's your opinion is highly subjective that everything you dislike is automatically "Fact!", those what Larian did is "Lazy writing".
I love Baldur's Gate 2 but stop putting this game on high pedestal when it's already outclassed by every modern iteration since Dragon Age Origins.
Baldur's Gate 3 has objectively surpassed BG2 in term of production value, reactivity and quest structure. AD&D has been surprassed by DnD 3.5/Pathfinder 1e. Even Bioware has created much better game with better written dialogue (structure wise) and much more memorable companion.
Put down the rose tinted glasses for once and see the game for what it is.
Baldur's Gate 2 will never, ever be remade. It lives in your head and heart - and let it rest there.
I leave it to you white mourning.
OP I disagree because all of this is just subjective ranting.
You're not wrong. You're just fail to understand that's your opinion is highly subjective that everything you dislike is automatically "Fact!", those what Larian did is "Lazy writing".
I love Baldur's Gate 2 but stop putting this game on high pedestal when it's already outclassed by every modern iteration since Dragon Age Origins.
Baldur's Gate 3 has objectively surpassed BG2 in term of production value, reactivity and quest structure. AD&D has been surprassed by DnD 3.5/Pathfinder 1e. Even Bioware has created much better game with better written dialogue (structure wise) and much more memorable companion.
Put down the rose tinted glasses for once and see the game for what it is.
Baldur's Gate 2 will never, ever be remade. It lives in your head and heart - and let it rest there.
I leave it to you white mourning.
Well it seems as time goes an overwhelming majority of people sorta like/dislikes Act 2 and dislikes Act 3, and really dislikes the ending so... There is a lot more truth than ranting on that front.
As for BG2 and BG3...they are just so different. No point comparing.
I play BG2 every year religiously. There are things in that game that you can do that would be impossible in BG3, or ANY modern game nowdays...(like having 18 standard companions, 6 party members, different strongholds for all classes, another couple dozen great modded companions tied in with the story, modded in 30 hours quests, even more friendships/romances...( and the same is true on the flip side. So lets enjoy both.
Well it seems as time goes an overwhelming majority of people sorta like/dislikes Act 2 and dislikes Act 3, and really dislikes the ending so... There is a lot more truth than ranting on that front.
There isn't a vote or statistical data yet, so I wouldn't say there is "a lot more truth" just because some people who dislike it make a thread about it.
In fact negative perception should make people quite encourage to report/create thread and as we can see, similar thread like this is not exactly common.
Lastly, dislike and bad is two different thing and OP is trying to warped his subjectivity as generally accepted opinion, or better yet, fact.
I am willing to dissect each and every quest available in Act 2 and 3 with Act 1 comparison and prove that it's no less entertaining than Act 1, in fact I'd say it's better than Act 1 which is somwhat more linear compared to Act 2 and 3 (3 is absolutely massive comparatively), here or on the thread you made.
I'd suggest we keep this thread to comparisons of BG1&2 vs BG3 and discuss how the different BG3 acts compare elsewhere.
And on the former, everyone is of course entitled to their preferences and to express them. Clearly what folk prefer is going to depend on their own personal priorities and tastes, so there are no right or wrong answers.
Most of us who have been on these forums for a while have probably already discussed this ad nauseum, but just for the record, again, as I don't think I've yet said it in this thread, I love all three games.
And despite accepting that in many ways (though not all) BG2 is a better game than BG1, I think I have a bit more affection for BG1. And while I played both games when they released and have played them many times again over the years, for me DA:O is better than both of them, though again not in every way. (As a bit of an aside, given it's pure speculation as we don't know how old people are and can only guess from cultural references, I sometimes wonder if one reason I'm not so attached to BG1 & 2 is that I was a bit older than some forum members here when they came out: I was already in my mid 20s in 1998. I feel that sometimes the things that we love just when we're becoming adults stick with us most. Or perhaps I'm just projecting from the fact that's where a lot of my musical taste and fashion sense is stuck
)
BG3 for me still needs to settle - I've not even finished it once, and clearly it needs a lot of bug-fixing - but I do think that it could end up as my favourite game yet. And one of the things I love about it is how it calls back to BG1 & 2. For me, it's definitely a worthy successor.
Bg2 is still the best bg/bio game. Bg3 is tainted by the dos nonsense. And, other bio games are harmed by their dumbing things down.
IF BG3 hopds up in ch2 and ch3 it might surpass bg1, though. MIGHT.
Bg2 is still the best bg/bio game. Bg3 is tainted by the dos nonsense. And, other bio games are harmed by their dumbing things down.
IF BG3 hopds up in ch2 and ch3 it might surpass bg1, though. MIGHT.
I agree that BG 3 isn't as good as it could be due to it's D:OS origins and completely unbalanced homebrew stuff. I never liked BG 2 though and never actually finished it, I much prefer BG 1 to it.
But the best Infinity Engine game is definitely Planescape: Torment. Even after all these years, no game even comes close to it.
But the best Infinity Engine game is definitely Planescape: Torment. Even after all these years, no game even comes close to it.
PS:T is fantastic, but it's a very different beast from the BG games due to the limitations and advantages of having a protagonist with a very definite story. If I think of modern RPGs I'd compare PS:T to in feel and ambition, I'd be looking at something like Disco Elysium. Which I do think comes close and even is maybe better.
Pst is very good, and fits its niche very well. But, bg2 is the entire package.
Planescape Torment writing straight up making BG1 & BG2 downright amateur Job.
Planescape Torment writing straight up making BG1 & BG2 downright amateur Job.
Agree. Dungeons are great in BG2, and the overall plot is cool, but companion NPCs, dialogue choices, non-combat options, and so on are very rudimentary in BG1 and 2. Still love those games, but PST is on an entirely different level.
Planescape Torment writing straight up making BG1 & BG2 downright amateur Job.
Agree. Dungeons are great in BG2, and the overall plot is cool, but companion NPCs, dialogue choices, non-combat options, and so on are very rudimentary in BG1 and 2. Still love those games, but PST is on an entirely different level.
PST is hard-carried by its writing though. It has nothing else. Sure, it may have the best writing in an RPG ever, but that's the only reason anyone remembers it.
Planescape Torment writing straight up making BG1 & BG2 downright amateur Job.
Agree. Dungeons are great in BG2, and the overall plot is cool, but companion NPCs, dialogue choices, non-combat options, and so on are very rudimentary in BG1 and 2. Still love those games, but PST is on an entirely different level.
I think Planescape Torment and especially Disco Elysium has proven that Roleplaying Game mechanics, without dungeoneering can work in modern day setting. It can be incorporated in not-medieval setting.
My main gripes with BG2 is how dialogue choices basically non-existent. If anybody ask me how could BioWare who once produced BG2/KOTOR ended up with ME3 or Anthem, I'd ask them to look for BG2, because the crack has been present since Day 1.
Planescape Torment writing straight up making BG1 & BG2 downright amateur Job.
Agree. Dungeons are great in BG2, and the overall plot is cool, but companion NPCs, dialogue choices, non-combat options, and so on are very rudimentary in BG1 and 2. Still love those games, but PST is on an entirely different level.
PST is hard-carried by its writing though. It has nothing else. Sure, it may have the best writing in an RPG ever, but that's the only reason anyone remembers it.
True, but it damn good writing.
Planescape Torment writing straight up making BG1 & BG2 downright amateur Job.
Agree. Dungeons are great in BG2, and the overall plot is cool, but companion NPCs, dialogue choices, non-combat options, and so on are very rudimentary in BG1 and 2. Still love those games, but PST is on an entirely different level.
I think Planescape Torment and especially Disco Elysium has proven that Roleplaying Game mechanics, without dungeoneering can work in modern day setting. It can be incorporated in not-medieval setting.
My main gripes with BG2 is how dialogue choices basically non-existent. If anybody ask me how could BioWare who once produced BG2/KOTOR ended up with ME3 or Anthem, I'd ask them to look for BG2, because the crack has been present since Day 1.
Haha, don’t get me started on BioWare. I love BG1 and 2, but I think everything else BW has ever done isn’t worth playing. Just my unpopular opinion. DAOrigins, Mass Effect, NWN, KotoR, all of it.
OP I disagree because all of this is just subjective ranting.
You're not wrong. You're just fail to understand that's your opinion is highly subjective that everything you dislike is automatically "Fact!", those what Larian did is "Lazy writing".
Dear Dext. Paladin!
You (and many others) sadly clearly missed the main point in my so called "subjective ranting"!
Which point is: in my every adduced topics, I referring to the world's author's very own words. You know, somebody somewhere written down something (in this case the very authors of this fantasy world), because they imagined that thing the way as they did (and and nobody done that before). From that point he/she or even they are the "creators" and what they imagined and writed down about that is the fact and the very elemental basic about that.
For example: J. R. R. Tolkien write it: Legolas is an elven fighter, with blue eyes blond hair, and using mainly his bow and his twin elven daggers. From this point this is the basics about Legolas and all of it's a fact (and not a subjective oppinion) because the author of him imagined him this way! So if anybody calling or portraying Legolas as a human thief, or an elven bard, or a dwarf fighter... etc.(anything but not exactly that as the author) is incorrect, wrong and a lie!
The creators of this world written down clearly (and done that a little bit longer before than some studios had the idea to "create a crpg about them" to make money):
-Mephistopheleses: traits, behaviours, attitude... etc.
-The different elven subraces (among them the drows as well): general racial traits, ...etc.
-The assimars: general racial traits, ...etc.
-The Faerunian Gods: traits, behaviours, attitude... etc.
-Minsc as a ranger and a Rashemen berserker (did you know where is his berserker ability in BG 3? because even as a ranger he had it in BG 1-2)...etc.
...etc. etc. etc.
So every of this is written down as facts, not in some player hand book edition or in some game what the majority or the minority like it or not, but in the books where the authors firstly created this races, characters, ...etc. and it's traits behaviours ...etc.! The difference is: someones know this because they read that, and someones don't know this. And sadly those who don't know this, have the tendency to call that incorrections and lies to: "subjective", "insignificant", "unimportant" ...etc. just because the don't know it. Simple as it is! (some says: "ignorance is bliss!", I say: "ignorance is careless, and ignoring peoples sooner or later always pay the price of their own ignorance!")
And BG 3 clearly doesn't surpassed BG 2 or BG 1 or NWN 2 or ID 1-2 or even Sword Coast Legends, because they games at least respected and don't tarnished those basics!
The only thing what BG 3 is evidently could surpassed in this way is: that BG 3 is more Faerun incorrect game than NWN 1 ever was! (which is not a great trait)
And Yes I call it sloppy and lazy writing, because if they can't respect or kept that simple basics as it is (which to do, doesn't need even fantasy or talent at all) that's alone is shame! Or if they do that intentionally that's even a bigger shame!
Tolkien only every describes Legolas as being tall, and he does not use twin daggers in the books.
OP I disagree because all of this is just subjective ranting.
You're not wrong. You're just fail to understand that's your opinion is highly subjective that everything you dislike is automatically "Fact!", those what Larian did is "Lazy writing".
Dear Dext. Paladin!
You (and many others) sadly clearly missed the main point in my so called "subjective ranting"!
Which point is: in my every adduced topics, I referring to the world's author's very own words. You know, somebody somewhere written down something (in this case the very authors of this fantasy world), because they imagined that thing the way as they did (and and nobody done that before). From that point he/she or even they are the "creators" and what they imagined and writed down about that is the fact and the very elemental basic about that.
For example: J. R. R. Tolkien write it: Legolas is an elven fighter, with blue eyes blond hair, and using mainly his bow and his twin elven daggers. From this point this is the basics about Legolas and all of it's a fact (and not a subjective oppinion) because the author of him imagined him this way! So if anybody calling or portraying Legolas as a human thief, or an elven bard, or a dwarf fighter... etc.(anything but not exactly that as the author) is incorrect, wrong and a lie!
The creators of this world written down clearly (and done that a little bit longer before than some studios had the idea to "create a crpg about them" to make money):
-Mephistopheleses: traits, behaviours, attitude... etc.
-The different elven subraces (among them the drows as well): general racial traits, ...etc.
-The assimars: general racial traits, ...etc.
-The Faerunian Gods: traits, behaviours, attitude... etc.
-Minsc as a ranger and a Rashemen berserker (did you know where is his berserker ability in BG 3? because even as a ranger he had it in BG 1-2)...etc.
...etc. etc. etc.
So every of this is written down as facts, not in some player hand book edition or in some game what the majority or the minority like it or not, but in the books where the authors firstly created this races, characters, ...etc. and it's traits behaviours ...etc.! The difference is: someones know this because they read that, and someones don't know this. And sadly those who don't know this, have the tendency to call that incorrections and lies to: "subjective", "insignificant", "unimportant" ...etc. just because the don't know it. Simple as it is! (some says: "ignorance is bliss!", I say: "ignorance is careless, and ignoring peoples sooner or later always pay the price of their own ignorance!")
And BG 3 clearly doesn't surpassed BG 2 or BG 1 or NWN 2 or ID 1-2 or even Sword Coast Legends, because they games at least respected and don't tarnished those basics!
The only thing what BG 3 is evidently could surpassed in this way is: that BG 3 is more Faerun incorrect game than NWN 1 ever was! (which is not a great trait)
And Yes I call it sloppy and lazy writing, because if they can't respect or kept that simple basics as it is (which to do, doesn't need even fantasy or talent at all) that's alone is shame! Or if they do that intentionally that's even a bigger shame!
Hi.
I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying your perception of the story warped the reality itself.
Yes, they might have been elements in the story that "feels like" that it wasn't supposed to be as it was defined on prior writing.
Remember, in BG2 player can play a Bhaalspawn that doesn't like to murder. A Bhaalspawn, who didn't like to murder? The audacity!
You'd be surprised that out here, in material plane where people actually live, in order to create a story, people have to suspend their disbelief so that an Art/Story can be conveyed as it was intended by the art maker or in this case, a DM.
Seems to me you wrote an entire thesis to say that you unable to suspend your disbelief, warped that bias as if it was a fact, which is not.
Dear Dext. Paladin!
Most of the dear players usually forgot (or don't know at all) that The Forgotten Realms is a fantasy world what started it's "career" in the novels! (but I already mentioned this, the first novel in the Realms came out in 1987 from this world's creator Ed Greenwood)
Implementing this fantasy world as a TTRPG, what use the D&D rule sets only came many years and many novels later, and implementing as a successful CRPG game is only happened at 1998 in the 1'st Baldur's Gate game.
So to said it easy and plainly: from cronological and all other logical viewpoints the Novels is the main stream and the main source of the lore in this fantasy world (why: because the novels continuing even this days "more than 35 years of lore in the lot more than hundreds of novels already" from many talented and respected writers whos the creator of this fantasy world), not the actual edition of D&D rule set or any game, because any of that came only after.
So you say, those who told different from the facts (which is in every interpretation is a lie) is right?! Alright so you are sided those who "warped the reality itself"... it's soo good to know!
As (mostly) a D.M. (BTW in other TTRPG called G.M.) and player in many TTRPG (among them D&D, Shadowrun, Vampire, M.A.G.U.S. and some other not widely known) in the last more than 20 years, so let's just say I'm exactly know what a D.M. can do (and what CAN'T DO(!)) for the story.
BUT NEWSFLASH: every existing fantasy world (and every TT guidebook) use it's creators(!) basics and facts as fundamentals, because without that can't create any rule system for any RPG!
So in every RPG both the player and the D.M. need a "common ground" as "benchmark" because without that they can't play at all.
And maybe for you and the others who don't know these basics of this world, is "soo good" and "great" that Larian narrows (desecrated, tarnished, and lied about) that "common ground",but for me and those who know that basics it's not acceptable! And BTW for any GOOD(!) D.M. it's the very basic to keep respect and follow the fundamental, and create the new and interesting story when he/she builds on this fundamentals. Which is clearly doesn't happened it here! And again that doesn't change that Larian tarnished and lied (and their possible reasons, doesn't change that all, that this is facts again) about this facts!
About the Bhaal spawn! Thank you soo much that is exactly my point, because they created a thing which "doesn't existed" before so they can used it freely as they wanted! You know: "builded something new and original up on the already existing, and in the same time keept and respect the fundamentals"! (which is again just the basics of every RPG)
So if Larian want to create for example: 3 and half meter tall dwarfs, and feather skinned elves which they want to call goblins, or tieflings whos the descendant of a higher plane creature ...etc. etc. they can do that any time if they creating their new and very own fantasy world (because in there what they say is become the fundamental), but when they creating something up on that existing already they must keep and respect the fundamentals! And if they not, that's a sloppy lazy and failed work! Simple as it is!
And again just because you and some other dear players in thw "material planes" don't know these basics, that show only the "lack of knowledge", but don't change the facts!
BTW the universal cure for the lack of knowledge is the very same from thousands of years (and nowadays available nearly to anybody): read the books! (which is I already suggested many times in this thread!
)
Cheers!
Okay, folks. Let's recognise when we've made our points and that it's time to agree to disagree.
OP I disagree because all of this is just subjective ranting.
You're not wrong. You're just fail to understand that's your opinion is highly subjective that everything you dislike is automatically "Fact!", those what Larian did is "Lazy writing".
Dear Dext. Paladin!
You (and many others) sadly clearly missed the main point in my so called "subjective ranting"!
Which point is: in my every adduced topics, I referring to the world's author's very own words. You know, somebody somewhere written down something (in this case the very authors of this fantasy world), because they imagined that thing the way as they did (and and nobody done that before). From that point he/she or even they are the "creators" and what they imagined and writed down about that is the fact and the very elemental basic about that.
For example: J. R. R. Tolkien write it: Legolas is an elven fighter, with blue eyes blond hair, and using mainly his bow and his twin elven daggers. From this point this is the basics about Legolas and all of it's a fact (and not a subjective oppinion) because the author of him imagined him this way! So if anybody calling or portraying Legolas as a human thief, or an elven bard, or a dwarf fighter... etc.(anything but not exactly that as the author) is incorrect, wrong and a lie!
The creators of this world written down clearly (and done that a little bit longer before than some studios had the idea to "create a crpg about them" to make money):
-Mephistopheleses: traits, behaviours, attitude... etc.
-The different elven subraces (among them the drows as well): general racial traits, ...etc.
-The assimars: general racial traits, ...etc.
-The Faerunian Gods: traits, behaviours, attitude... etc.
-Minsc as a ranger and a Rashemen berserker (did you know where is his berserker ability in BG 3? because even as a ranger he had it in BG 1-2)...etc.
...etc. etc. etc.
So every of this is written down as facts, not in some player hand book edition or in some game what the majority or the minority like it or not, but in the books where the authors firstly created this races, characters, ...etc. and it's traits behaviours ...etc.! The difference is: someones know this because they read that, and someones don't know this. And sadly those who don't know this, have the tendency to call that incorrections and lies to: "subjective", "insignificant", "unimportant" ...etc. just because the don't know it. Simple as it is! (some says: "ignorance is bliss!", I say: "ignorance is careless, and ignoring peoples sooner or later always pay the price of their own ignorance!")
And BG 3 clearly doesn't surpassed BG 2 or BG 1 or NWN 2 or ID 1-2 or even Sword Coast Legends, because they games at least respected and don't tarnished those basics!
The only thing what BG 3 is evidently could surpassed in this way is: that BG 3 is more Faerun incorrect game than NWN 1 ever was! (which is not a great trait)
And Yes I call it sloppy and lazy writing, because if they can't respect or kept that simple basics as it is (which to do, doesn't need even fantasy or talent at all) that's alone is shame! Or if they do that intentionally that's even a bigger shame!
Multiclass Minsc into Barbian and pick the sybclass Bezeker.
There has been been 3 major edition changes (3e, 4e, 5e) and 2 minor edition changes (3.5e, 4e Essentials), with a third minor edition change coming in 2024 for 5e.
The Spellplague, Sundering, and more has happened since BG2 with piles of more lore.
Blame WotC for lore issues, not Larian.
Sword Coast Legends is one of the worst dnd games ever. Lol
Dear Dext. Paladin!
Most of the dear players usually forgot (or don't know at all) that The Forgotten Realms is a fantasy world what started it's "career" in the novels! (but I already mentioned this, the first novel in the Realms came out in 1987 from this world's creator Ed Greenwood)
Implementing this fantasy world as a TTRPG, what use the D&D rule sets only came many years and many novels later, and implementing as a successful CRPG game is only happened at 1998 in the 1'st Baldur's Gate game.
So to said it easy and plainly: from cronological and all other logical viewpoints the Novels is the main stream and the main source of the lore in this fantasy world (why: because the novels continuing even this days "more than 35 years of lore in the lot more than hundreds of novels already" from many talented and respected writers whos the creator of this fantasy world), not the actual edition of D&D rule set or any game, because any of that came only after.
So you say, those who told different from the facts (which is in every interpretation is a lie) is right?! Alright so you are sided those who "warped the reality itself"... it's soo good to know!
As (mostly) a D.M. (BTW in other TTRPG called G.M.) and player in many TTRPG (among them D&D, Shadowrun, Vampire, M.A.G.U.S. and some other not widely known) in the last more than 20 years, so let's just say I'm exactly know what a D.M. can do (and what CAN'T DO(!)) for the story.
BUT NEWSFLASH: every existing fantasy world (and every TT guidebook) use it's creators(!) basics and facts as fundamentals, because without that can't create any rule system for any RPG!
So in every RPG both the player and the D.M. need a "common ground" as "benchmark" because without that they can't play at all.
And maybe for you and the others who don't know these basics of this world, is "soo good" and "great" that Larian narrows (desecrated, tarnished, and lied about) that "common ground",but for me and those who know that basics it's not acceptable! And BTW for any GOOD(!) D.M. it's the very basic to keep respect and follow the fundamental, and create the new and interesting story when he/she builds on this fundamentals. Which is clearly doesn't happened it here! And again that doesn't change that Larian tarnished and lied (and their possible reasons, doesn't change that all, that this is facts again) about this facts!
About the Bhaal spawn! Thank you soo much that is exactly my point, because they created a thing which "doesn't existed" before so they can used it freely as they wanted! You know: "builded something new and original up on the already existing, and in the same time keept and respect the fundamentals"! (which is again just the basics of every RPG)
So if Larian want to create for example: 3 and half meter tall dwarfs, and feather skinned elves which they want to call goblins, or tieflings whos the descendant of a higher plane creature ...etc. etc. they can do that any time if they creating their new and very own fantasy world (because in there what they say is become the fundamental), but when they creating something up on that existing already they must keep and respect the fundamentals! And if they not, that's a sloppy lazy and failed work! Simple as it is!
And again just because you and some other dear players in thw "material planes" don't know these basics, that show only the "lack of knowledge", but don't change the facts!
BTW the universal cure for the lack of knowledge is the very same from thousands of years (and nowadays available nearly to anybody): read the books! (which is I already suggested many times in this thread!
)
Cheers!
Seems like a long thesis just to say "Rule of Cool sucks!"
Yes, I want my drow a Baldur's Gate native and never been in Underdark once in their live!
Apart from contradicting yourself by saying "Creating something new is good" and putting arbitrary limitation that this specific scenario (Bhaalspawn) is "good" because it "respect" the "fundamentals" (fundamentals, being "I like it" more accurately) - you keep spinning stuff that has little to no sense at all! I am very impressed.
As I said ...
Okay, folks. Let's recognise when we've made our points and that it's time to agree to disagree.
If you find yourself in a to and fro disagreement with another forum member and it's starting to get a bit heated, it's almost certainly time to disengage and accept that you just have different views. You're allowed to privately continue to think yours are right
It's nothing "heated" in here at least from my side.
As I wrote it in the original thread I already agree to disagree with all whos like Shitdur's Gate 3.
Also I genuinely (even if not with the nicest words) adviced them, to read the original novels, where they can read the mentioned points not from my words, but the words from the authors.
Many of the dear members ignore that, not my problem at all, theirs!
Also I genuinly adviced them, instead of flying to the rainbow colored clouds of their own satisfaction, demand the devs to create a game what correct to the original fantasy world.
Many of the dear members ignore that, not my problem at all, theirs!
Why is this important: because without that, the devs start to think more and more of the so call "subjective" and "little details" is unimportant and don't need to do correctly, because until the majority and the canon is satisfied any other thing is unimportant.=> which attitude btw. the straigth way to the degeneration of the games generally, and to specificly this fantasy world's degeneration as well.
And there is my problem because in this way, instead of spreading the world's authors words, the not soo detailed dear players started to spread the devs incorrections and lies! Which is only unintentionally their fault, but intentional or unintentional from the view of the result it's unimportant because that's the straigth way to degradation and finally to ruin! From my part I done what was right, and genuinely adviced, where to find the original and what to need to do to become more detailed. They ignored that, again not my problem at all, theirs!
And they think that's not their problem at all? Good! Because if and until the majority and the canon is satisfied that means they (the devs, money mans, etc.) can do everythin without consequences!
BTW: "WHEN" and in this situation, not the "happen or not" is the question, only the "WHEN". So when it happen (thanks to their current ignorance) that some of the devs starting to mess with one of the thing/topic etc. which is important and liked (and everybody have one) to the dear little ignoring ones whos now flying in ther rainbow clouds, they become the most loud about how "deeply wrong what they done against them" but that time they faces to the "detailed above everybody" and "everytime they right" majority's and canon's ignorance!
And again that's not my problem, because I already laugh about their that time "hypocrisy"!
So nothing is "heated" in here, just again the cold facts, which someones accept, and someones ignore.
Cheers!
Wow. I read the starting post. I've read about 90% of this entire thread. Now evaluate how difficult it was: English is not my native language.
What is it, Wendy`s, by the way?
I think that a good game BG3 should have been called something else - and would not have lost anything from it. There would be no Jaikhera, Minskс, Sarevok (I may accidentally spell the names incorrectly, because it's not obvious by ear) in it - and it would be great. One could say "coincidences are random"
Who would be upset with this option? Marketers? Because they would have missed the opportunity to play the brand. But the brand was popular too many years ago.
Fans of books? There are not so many fans today. Sorry, guys. There are too few of you.
I'm not a fan of the world of Faerun. But I've read The Silmarillion. And there is no need to make a Silmarillion game, because there are enough boring games.
It's enough that there is The Eve online in the world.
To understand what is happening in the game, I have previously read several brief descriptions that have been abominably translated into Russian. More or less understood. I would not like to see a game that I need to read three dozen books to understand (not the fact that they are all translated into Russian). Arguing about whether Drow are elves? Let's first decide if Pluto is a planet. Or whether the light is a wave or a particle. In order for the character in the game to understand me correctly, I put the knowledge of history -1 and magic -1.
Forgot to add: anyone who thinks that BG2 is better than Fallout is overconfident
I concur that BG3 should of been called something else.
I am still unsure that the Larian team even likes the previous games and lore. Or just doesn't care? Up to now, all the Larian fanfare arent really about BALDURS GATE for say, but more "Dungeons and Dragons" 5E. And even that ...so much ERRORS.
I would not be surprised that most of the Larian worldwide BG3 team haven't even finished BG2. Lots of young blood. Which is great when you make a new game, not so great when you make a sequel to one of the greatest RPGs ever made.
I agree that the lore is a total mess (and the FR wiki is like . . . right there. As are the BG games and lots of fans who know the details inside and out). However, WotC has been watering down its own lore and making everything more simplistic and boring for a while now, so I guess I can see why lore stuff turned out the way it did here.
I was just thinking about how, with the pleasant exception of Lae'zel, none of the companions' races matter. Like Karlach could be a fire genasi instead of a tiefling (anything with fire resistance I guess), Shadowheart could be a full elf or a human, and so on. In the original games, all the characters had so much flavor tied to their races, like Mazzy longing to be a paladin, Haer'Dalis being from Sigil, Aerie being a wingless avariel, and so on. Even the humans had cultural differences, like Edwin and Minsc. Maybe it's a 5E thing, but dang, race feels so superficial now.
If the game would be called Divinity-3, then we would have the same thing, and also playable skeletons of humans, skeletons of elves, skeletons of dwarves, skeletons of halflings, skeletons of half-orcs...
In general, everything we love!
I think BG3 is perfectly "worthy its name".
Its actually much better than I hoped for when hearing of the project.
I'm not sure yet but I think this may replace BG2 as my most favorite game ever. Though Vampire: The Masuqerade: Bloodlines is also in the run for that title.
![[Linked Image from media.tenor.com]](https://media.tenor.com/vNXC0Ke4aOAAAAAC/if-you-cant-say-something-nice-dont-say-nothing-at-all.gif)